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European City Of Culture 2023
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"Why did they spend months putting bids together when theyve known they'll be out of the EU by then for over a year? "The following cities have two things in common. Given the context of the post, can you think what they are? Reykjavik, Stavanger and Istanbul. | |||
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"Why did they spend months putting bids together when theyve known they'll be out of the EU by then for over a year?
The following cities have two things in common. Given the context of the post, can you think what they are?
Reykjavik, Stavanger and Istanbul."They are former capitals of culture and they all met the criteria. Reykjavik and Stavanger are both in the EEA and Istanbul was a candidate. They met the requirements that have not only been there for years, but that the UK had a hand in writing and could have changed if they wanted! | |||
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"Why did they spend months putting bids together when theyve known they'll be out of the EU by then for over a year?
The following cities have two things in common. Given the context of the post, can you think what they are?
Reykjavik, Stavanger and Istanbul.
They are former capitals of culture and they all met the criteria.
Reykjavik and Stavanger are both in the EEA and Istanbul was a candidate. They met the requirements that have not only been there for years, but that the UK had a hand in writing and could have changed if they wanted!"And none of them are in the EU! | |||
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"Actually it was Dundee that refered to it as a Bombshell, I assume the Beeb just picked up on that. All in all personally I thick it's a bit nasty to pull it now and it smacks of lets teach the Brits a lesson to me. Can smeone please tell me where I can find out the criteria that a city has to meet to be elligible. Ta" It was the UK's turn to host I'm 2023. As far as I can see, the rules were changed in 2010 (after Istanbul) that only cities in the EU can apply. Last time I looked, we were still in the EU and most definitely still in Europe. | |||
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"The rules havent changed at all since Istanbul. And this isnt some nasty thing the EU is doing to "teach the Brits a lesson". Youve quit the EU and your government has said time and time again that the longest transition period will be over long before 2023. This is like an employee in July handing in two months notice and then complaining theyre not getting a ticket to the christmas party in December. Its truly bizarre that the EU is getting the blame because British cities wont get to participate in EU events in 6 years time." We haven't quit the EU yet! We are still contributing fully, and would still be contributing when the decision of host city would have been made. | |||
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"The rules havent changed at all since Istanbul. And this isnt some nasty thing the EU is doing to "teach the Brits a lesson". Youve quit the EU and your government has said time and time again that the longest transition period will be over long before 2023. This is like an employee in July handing in two months notice and then complaining theyre not getting a ticket to the christmas party in December. Its truly bizarre that the EU is getting the blame because British cities wont get to participate in EU events in 6 years time." The rules were changed after Istanbul in 2010. Before then, 3 cities were chosen. 1 from an established EU nation, 1 from a new EU nation and 1 from a nation bordering the EU. The latter was then dropped in order not to dilute matters. The UK was due to host in 2023, along with Hungary. | |||
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" The rules were changed after Istanbul in 2010. Before then, 3 cities were chosen. 1 from an established EU nation, 1 from a new EU nation and 1 from a nation bordering the EU. The latter was then dropped in order not to dilute matters. The UK was due to host in 2023, along with Hungary." Not even remotely true. 2010 is the only year theres been 3 cities so far. And they were 2 current EU cities (Hungarian and German) and 1 prospective (Turkey). The adjacent country being eligible has never ever been a thing. Youre trusting the wrong sources of information whatever that was. The UK is not eligible to be the capital of the EUs anything in 2030 because its not going to be in the EU. It makes as much sense as Orlando, Florida being the UKs Capital of Culture. | |||
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"I'm hearing that the EU have now started that they will not allow a UK city to be the European City Of Culture in 2023. It was our turn in 2023, and 5 cities across the UK have spent months formulating their bids, due for presentation shortly. " So you still want the European Commission to make decision with financial implications for British cities after brexit? | |||
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"I'm hearing that the EU have now started that they will not allow a UK city to be the European City Of Culture in 2023. It was our turn in 2023, and 5 cities across the UK have spent months formulating their bids, due for presentation shortly. So you still want the European Commission to make decision with financial implications for British cities after brexit? "Perfectly reasonable whilst they are still taking our money. I thought the EU were wanting us to pay for future commitments? Or does that just apply to commitments that suit them? | |||
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"This sounds like a future commitment that the EU have decided to say "get fucked" to! " No, it doesn't. | |||
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"The rules havent changed at all since Istanbul. And this isnt some nasty thing the EU is doing to "teach the Brits a lesson". Youve quit the EU and your government has said time and time again that the longest transition period will be over long before 2023. This is like an employee in July handing in two months notice and then complaining theyre not getting a ticket to the christmas party in December. Its truly bizarre that the EU is getting the blame because British cities wont get to participate in EU events in 6 years time. We haven't quit the EU yet! We are still contributing fully, and would still be contributing when the decision of host city would have been made." Didn't some foreign secretary say The Foreign Secretary says Brussels can "go whistle" over its demands for billions of euros from Britain ... So what should the Eu think the UK may do over it's future commitments 
All the Eu hears is
The UK wants out
Fully out
No links only trade deal
No payments or obligations
No part of horrid Europe or it's money grabbing
So they have said
Erm ok | |||
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"I'm hearing that the EU have now started that they will not allow a UK city to be the European City Of Culture in 2023. It was our turn in 2023, and 5 cities across the UK have spent months formulating their bids, due for presentation shortly. So you still want the European Commission to make decision with financial implications for British cities after brexit?
Perfectly reasonable whilst they are still taking our money.
I thought the EU were wanting us to pay for future commitments? Or does that just apply to commitments that suit them?"The EU told the 5 cities before any commitment was made on which would host it. And the UK could have asked to remain in things like Euratom which arent part of the EU but such was the Anti-EU sentiment that they wouldnt even do that. At no point have I heard anyone in the May government say they wanted to remain as part of the cultural celebrations so how are the EU to know? Maybe if your leader didnt rely on empty statements like Brexit means Brexit and had put together a plan that 17 months after the vote is still being called unprepared and chaotic then this might not have happened. | |||
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"Funny ain't it all these brexiters wanting and moaning about it lol "Well, there were promised all of the good things, none of the bad things if they voted for brexit. | |||
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"We seem to be loosing everything. Jobs in the city yesterday to European cities now, And now we can't have European City of culture. Those who voted leave are getting what they wanted going to ruin this country with Brexit don't know about bringing it together. If we could move to Europe we would as prefer to be there than here a far better way of life. " Well the EU project was designed for it to be about having a better life and all the citizens on a level playing field...i just guess some are that nostalgic on here they want to try and go back to the war years  | |||
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"Why did they spend months putting bids together when theyve known they'll be out of the EU by then for over a year? "Why has it taken so long for the EU to say this?A right load of bastards | |||
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"We seem to be loosing everything. Jobs in the city yesterday to European cities now, And now we can't have European City of culture. Those who voted leave are getting what they wanted going to ruin this country with Brexit don't know about bringing it together. If we could move to Europe we would as prefer to be there than here a far better way of life. " Well move and stop moaning | |||
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"We seem to be loosing everything. Jobs in the city yesterday to European cities now, And now we can't have European City of culture. Those who voted leave are getting what they wanted going to ruin this country with Brexit don't know about bringing it together. If we could move to Europe we would as prefer to be there than here a far better way of life. Well move and stop moaning" If only, if we can sell our business it's on the cards. | |||
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"We seem to be loosing everything. Jobs in the city yesterday to European cities now, And now we can't have European City of culture. Those who voted leave are getting what they wanted going to ruin this country with Brexit don't know about bringing it together. If we could move to Europe we would as prefer to be there than here a far better way of life. Well move and stop moaning If only, if we can sell our business it's on the cards. " Just remember the grass allways looks greener but it wont be | |||
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"We seem to be loosing everything. Jobs in the city yesterday to European cities now, And now we can't have European City of culture. Those who voted leave are getting what they wanted going to ruin this country with Brexit don't know about bringing it together. If we could move to Europe we would as prefer to be there than here a far better way of life. Well move and stop moaning If only, if we can sell our business it's on the cards. " good luck
uk has been turned into a shithole  | |||
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"Why did they spend months putting bids together when theyve known they'll be out of the EU by then for over a year? Why has it taken so long for the EU to say this?A right load of bastards"Wasn't it obvious?
How thick have you got to be to think that a UK city would be awarded an EU event after we have left the EU? | |||
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"We seem to be loosing everything. Jobs in the city yesterday to European cities now, And now we can't have European City of culture. Those who voted leave are getting what they wanted going to ruin this country with Brexit don't know about bringing it together. If we could move to Europe we would as prefer to be there than here a far better way of life. Well move and stop moaning If only, if we can sell our business it's on the cards. good luck
uk has been turned into a shithole "You should go as well,we are over crowded,those that want Europe should go and live there | |||
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"We seem to be loosing everything. Jobs in the city yesterday to European cities now, And now we can't have European City of culture. Those who voted leave are getting what they wanted going to ruin this country with Brexit don't know about bringing it together. If we could move to Europe we would as prefer to be there than here a far better way of life. Well move and stop moaning If only, if we can sell our business it's on the cards. good luck
uk has been turned into a shithole You should go as well,we are over crowded,those that want Europe should go and live there"Over crowed stop reading the Scum or the fail...were no where near overcrowded lol | |||
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"We seem to be loosing everything. Jobs in the city yesterday to European cities now, And now we can't have European City of culture. Those who voted leave are getting what they wanted going to ruin this country with Brexit don't know about bringing it together. If we could move to Europe we would as prefer to be there than here a far better way of life. Well move and stop moaning If only, if we can sell our business it's on the cards. good luck
uk has been turned into a shithole You should go as well,we are over crowded,those that want Europe should go and live there"It would be Vive la France or sun, sea and Sangria in Spain not sure which. | |||
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"We seem to be loosing everything. Jobs in the city yesterday to European cities now, And now we can't have European City of culture. Those who voted leave are getting what they wanted going to ruin this country with Brexit don't know about bringing it together. If we could move to Europe we would as prefer to be there than here a far better way of life. Well move and stop moaning If only, if we can sell our business it's on the cards. good luck
uk has been turned into a shithole You should go as well,we are over crowded,those that want Europe should go and live there"i will when i'm bored of rinsing the system and feel happy that i have sent enough money abroad chap ... the joys of dual nationality
ps ... i look forward to spending my british pension abroad  | |||
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"We seem to be loosing everything. Jobs in the city yesterday to European cities now, And now we can't have European City of culture. Those who voted leave are getting what they wanted going to ruin this country with Brexit don't know about bringing it together. If we could move to Europe we would as prefer to be there than here a far better way of life. Well move and stop moaning If only, if we can sell our business it's on the cards. good luck
uk has been turned into a shithole You should go as well,we are over crowded,those that want Europe should go and live there
Over crowed stop reading the Scum or the fail...were no where near overcrowded lol " | |||
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"Every cloud has a silver lining...hopefully they'll tell us we will be out of Eurovision Song Contest next "Even Australia is in that shit now apparently. | |||
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"Why has it taken so long for the EU to say this?A right load of bastards" Did the EU tell you the sun would come up this morning? Did they tell you to get dressed today? Why do you think the EU needs to hold Britains hand and tell them every little thing? The UK department of culture said that this would probably be an issue before anyone spent any money on it. Why didnt they check and get a firm answer? " Just remember the grass allways looks greener but it wont be" The irony of a Brexiter saying this is almost as amazing as the lack of self awareness. | |||
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"You do realise that under current EU law, the UK was obliged to make a bid or risk a fine?" This wouldn't surprise me! | |||
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"We seem to be loosing everything. Jobs in the city yesterday to European cities now, And now we can't have European City of culture. Those who voted leave are getting what they wanted going to ruin this country with Brexit don't know about bringing it together. If we could move to Europe we would as prefer to be there than here a far better way of life. Well move and stop moaning If only, if we can sell our business it's on the cards. Just remember the grass allways looks greener but it wont be" Oh tell me that's tongue in cheek xxx Thing is we can know what it maybe like to live there Exit voters had and still don't have any idea of the grass colour after exit | |||
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"You do realise that under current EU law, the UK was obliged to make a bid or risk a fine? " Absolutely untrue, this is the second time in this thread youve just posted a straight up lie. Decision No 445/2014/EU is the law that established the city of culture for the years 2020 to 2033 (repealing the previous legislation) and not only is there no mention of a fine or penalty, it specifically states that the country may not have a city of culture as scheduled without issue. You cant trust a Brexiter to be honest about anything regarding the EU. Not to mention the others who immediately and unquestioningly assume its true. | |||
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"You do realise that under current EU law, the UK was obliged to make a bid or risk a fine? Absolutely untrue, this is the second time in this thread youve just posted a straight up lie. Decision No 445/2014/EU is the law that established the city of culture for the years 2020 to 2033 (repealing the previous legislation) and not only is there no mention of a fine or penalty, it specifically states that the country may not have a city of culture as scheduled without issue. You cant trust a Brexiter to be honest about anything regarding the EU. Not to mention the others who immediately and unquestioningly assume its true." My information came from an article written by two journalists in The Guardian. If that information is erroneous, then I apologise, as I have always done so if found to be posting erroneous information. I'm afraid that your entrenched Remain position on Brexit makes it extremely unlikely that we'll see eye to eye on this issue, but not all those that voted Leave have such blinkered views as you continually describe. | |||
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"Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Oh, Brexiteers. You make me laugh. Sorry, I can't think of anything more constructive to say on the matter than that. -Matt" There's two sets of people who look very silly in the story and thread, I agree... | |||
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"Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Oh, Brexiteers. You make me laugh. Sorry, I can't think of anything more constructive to say on the matter than that. -Matt There's two sets of people who look very silly in the story and thread, I agree..." Yup, the people organising the bids thinking that the rules don't matter, and the people getting outraged that the rules can't be bent despite our government making it quite clear the EU can go fuck itself. -Matt | |||
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"Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Oh, Brexiteers. You make me laugh. Sorry, I can't think of anything more constructive to say on the matter than that. -Matt There's two sets of people who look very silly in the story and thread, I agree... Yup, the people organising the bids thinking that the rules don't matter, and the people getting outraged that the rules can't be bent despite our government making it quite clear the EU can go fuck itself. -Matt" Ok, 3 sets of people. | |||
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"Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Oh, Brexiteers. You make me laugh. Sorry, I can't think of anything more constructive to say on the matter than that. -Matt There's two sets of people who look very silly in the story and thread, I agree... Yup, the people organising the bids thinking that the rules don't matter, and the people getting outraged that the rules can't be bent despite our government making it quite clear the EU can go fuck itself. -Matt Ok, 3 sets of people." OK, three then. - the people organising the bids thinking that the rules don't matter - the people getting outraged that the rules can't be bent despite our government making it quite clear the EU can go fuck itself. - the people trying to defend the people above -Matt | |||
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"That is right, if you are not in the club, they wont get any benefits lol." Brexiters think you get more benefits when you are not part of the club. | |||
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"That is right, if you are not in the club, they wont get any benefits lol. Brexiters think you get more benefits when you are not part of the club. "'Brexiters' think lots of different things to each other. Much in the same way as Muslims don't all think alike, or Scots don't all think alike and you don't think all the same things as other Remain voters. Not hard to drop the prejudice, if you want to.... | |||
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"That is right, if you are not in the club, they wont get any benefits lol. Brexiters think you get more benefits when you are not part of the club.
'Brexiters' think lots of different things to each other. Much in the same way as Muslims don't all think alike, or Scots don't all think alike and you don't think all the same things as other Remain voters. Not hard to drop the prejudice, if you want to...."Well you think we will automatically keep all the trade deals with 3rd countries that the EU has made. I would say that kind of proves my point.
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"That is right, if you are not in the club, they wont get any benefits lol. Brexiters think you get more benefits when you are not part of the club.
'Brexiters' think lots of different things to each other. Much in the same way as Muslims don't all think alike, or Scots don't all think alike and you don't think all the same things as other Remain voters. Not hard to drop the prejudice, if you want to....
Well you think we will automatically keep all the trade deals with 3rd countries that the EU has made. I would say that kind of proves my point.
"No I don't. Plus, irrelevant answer. Stick with the prejudice, if it's easier. | |||
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"That is right, if you are not in the club, they wont get any benefits lol. Brexiters think you get more benefits when you are not part of the club.
'Brexiters' think lots of different things to each other. Much in the same way as Muslims don't all think alike, or Scots don't all think alike and you don't think all the same things as other Remain voters. Not hard to drop the prejudice, if you want to...."lol. Hilarious. Yes, I'm sure Brexiters think lots of different things. However the ONE thing that actually DEFINES[*] them is that they believe we'd be better off 'out of the club'. -Matt * OK, I'm sure there are some people who voted to leave the EU who had no idea what they were actually voting for, so guess maybe the fact they voted for brexit doesn't define them as 'brexiters'. Maybe just stupid. | |||
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"That is right, if you are not in the club, they wont get any benefits lol. Brexiters think you get more benefits when you are not part of the club.
'Brexiters' think lots of different things to each other. Much in the same way as Muslims don't all think alike, or Scots don't all think alike and you don't think all the same things as other Remain voters. Not hard to drop the prejudice, if you want to....
lol. Hilarious.
Yes, I'm sure Brexiters think lots of different things. However the ONE thing that actually DEFINES[*] them is that they believe we'd be better off 'out of the club'.
-Matt
* OK, I'm sure there are some people who voted to leave the EU who had no idea what they were actually voting for, so guess maybe the fact they voted for brexit doesn't define them as 'brexiters'. Maybe just stupid."'They' may think overall it's just better to not be in the club. Whether 'they' think they'll get more benefit is unknown, because we don't know what 50% odd of the electorates thinking was. Some will have voted for good reason, others for bad reasons and others for unknown reasons. I find it concerning coming from people who rightly deride prejudice to embrace it so quickly. | |||
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"The brexiters wanted many different things.The remainers wanted one.To remain." and now they want to sit back, eat popcorn and watch the fireworks
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"The brexiters wanted many different things.The remainers wanted one.To remain." Or maybe the people who voted leave, voted for various reasons. And the people who voted remain voted for various reasons. | |||
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"The brexiters wanted many different things.The remainers wanted one.To remain. and now they want to sit back, eat popcorn and watch the fireworks
"Have you spoken to 'them' all to confirm that? | |||
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"The brexiters wanted many different things.The remainers wanted one.To remain. Or maybe the people who voted leave, voted for various reasons. And the people who voted remain voted for various reasons." meanwhile ... back in the real world | |||
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"The brexiters wanted many different things.The remainers wanted one.To remain. and now they want to sit back, eat popcorn and watch the fireworks
Have you spoken to 'them' all to confirm that?"haven't you? | |||
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"The brexiters wanted many different things.The remainers wanted one.To remain. Or maybe the people who voted leave, voted for various reasons. And the people who voted remain voted for various reasons. meanwhile ... back in the real world" | |||
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"The brexiters wanted many different things.The remainers wanted one.To remain. and now they want to sit back, eat popcorn and watch the fireworks
Have you spoken to 'them' all to confirm that?
haven't you?"I'm not stupid enough to think that 50% of the population has one homogeneous opinion, so I wouldn't waste my time. | |||
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"I'm not stupid enough to think that 50% of the population has one homogeneous opinion, so I wouldn't waste my time." maybe ... but the you are offering up a imaginary statistic of 50% and attempting to pass it off to intelligent folks as a psuedo fact though aren't you | |||
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"I'm not stupid enough to think that 50% of the population has one homogeneous opinion, so I wouldn't waste my time. maybe ... but the you are offering up a imaginary statistic of 50% and attempting to pass it off to intelligent folks as a psuedo fact though aren't you" I'm not stupid enough to think that 50% of the voters has one homogeneous opinion, so I wouldn't waste my time. . That better? Doesn't change anything. The fact remains that I respect other peoples views and that they hold them for different reasons and those views combine to make them vote one way or the other. I don't presume to know or understand their reasons. Luckily, I have never encountered people in everyday life who speak with the vitriol and bitterness as in this forum. | |||
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"I'm not stupid enough to think that 50% of the population has one homogeneous opinion, so I wouldn't waste my time. maybe ... but the you are offering up a imaginary statistic of 50% and attempting to pass it off to intelligent folks as a psuedo fact though aren't you I'm not stupid enough to think that 50% of the voters has one homogeneous opinion, so I wouldn't waste my time. . That better? Doesn't change anything. The fact remains that I respect other peoples views and that they hold them for different reasons and those views combine to make them vote one way or the other. I don't presume to know or understand their reasons. Luckily, I have never encountered people in everyday life who speak with the vitriol and bitterness as in this forum." no ... you're quite correct ... your ammendment doesn't change anything ... you're still attempting to pass off a bogus statistic of 50% of people ... do you think that nobody on the thread noticed that your 50% statistic is completelt fabricated? it really is a bit conceited of you to try to speak for half the people when you haven't a clue what half the people actually want | |||
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" no ... you're quite correct ... your ammendment doesn't change anything ... you're still attempting to pass off a bogus statistic of 50% of people ... do you think that nobody on the thread noticed that your 50% statistic is completelt fabricated? it really is a bit conceited of you to try to speak for half the people when you haven't a clue what half the people actually want" What are you talking about? 52% voted leave. That's not bogus. I'm saying nobody knows the reasons they all voted leave, and nobody knows why all the 48% voted remain. Blurting out 'brexiters' this , 'remainers' that is bullshit, lazy and prejudiced, whoever says it. | |||
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This is nearly as daft as when you said toddlers care about what Michael Gove says! | |||
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"So people who voted remain didn't do so because they wanted to remain?
This is nearly as daft as when you said toddlers care about what Michael Gove says! "I never said anything like that about Gove. I recall you twisting something like that, but even you reading it now can see how fake it is? You are clutching at such silly straws. People voted Leave for various reasons. People voted Remain for various reasons. Presuming to know why all of them did that is ridiculous. Lumping Brexiters together and Remainers together as a homogeneous like-thinking mass is wrong. | |||
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"Why did they spend months putting bids together when theyve known they'll be out of the EU by then for over a year?
The following cities have two things in common. Given the context of the post, can you think what they are?
Reykjavik, Stavanger and Istanbul."They are either in EFTA, the customs union, or have applied to join EU fully. These are all IN the criteria required. Leaving ISN’T. It’s not exactly rocket science! | |||
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"So people who voted remain didn't do so because they wanted to remain?
This is nearly as daft as when you said toddlers care about what Michael Gove says!
I never said anything like that about Gove. I recall you twisting something like that, but even you reading it now can see how fake it is? You are clutching at such silly straws.
People voted Leave for various reasons. People voted Remain for various reasons.
Presuming to know why all of them did that is ridiculous.
Lumping Brexiters together and Remainers together as a homogeneous like-thinking mass is wrong."So you don't think that people who voted remain did so because they wanted the UK to remain in the EU? | |||
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"it wasn't 52% of the population though...if the Tories had stuck to there striking rules laws that they made...we would be in the shite were in now" Are you proposing we allow every single person in the population to vote? The referendum was open to everyone in the electorate. | |||
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" I never said anything like that about Gove. I recall you twisting something like that, but even you reading it now can see how fake it is? You are clutching at such silly straws. People voted Leave for various reasons. People voted Remain for various reasons. Presuming to know why all of them did that is ridiculous. Lumping Brexiters together and Remainers together as a homogeneous like-thinking mass is wrong. So you don't think that people who voted remain did so because they wanted the UK to remain in the EU? "God, this is tedious. They voted to Remain for various *reasons*. Not the same reasons. You do realise a lot of remain voters are die-hard tories. Do you lump yourself together with them? The Labour party has voted for the Leave bills, so presumably you classify them as stupid Brexiters too? Is it really so difficult to accept that a referendum on one topic has so many varying reasons for support and opposition? | |||
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"it wasn't 52% of the population though...if the Tories had stuck to there striking rules laws that they made...we would be in the shite were in now Are you proposing we allow every single person in the population to vote? The referendum was open to everyone in the electorate." no but i would like voting to be mandatory....i think brexiters are a bit disingenuous like your being when you say about the vote result | |||
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" I never said anything like that about Gove. I recall you twisting something like that, but even you reading it now can see how fake it is? You are clutching at such silly straws. People voted Leave for various reasons. People voted Remain for various reasons. Presuming to know why all of them did that is ridiculous. Lumping Brexiters together and Remainers together as a homogeneous like-thinking mass is wrong. So you don't think that people who voted remain did so because they wanted the UK to remain in the EU?
God, this is tedious. They voted to Remain for various *reasons*. Not the same reasons.
You do realise a lot of remain voters are die-hard tories. Do you lump yourself together with them? The Labour party has voted for the Leave bills, so presumably you classify them as stupid Brexiters too?
Is it really so difficult to accept that a referendum on one topic has so many varying reasons for support and opposition?"More labour seats voted leave, by bigger margins than Tory seats. But there was a mix across all political parties (except UKIP I assume). To equate party voting preferences with referendum choice is clearly garbage. Labours NE strongholds were among the most leave voting regions in the whole country. Tory strongholds in the south almost all voted remain. | |||
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"it wasn't 52% of the population though...if the Tories had stuck to there striking rules laws that they made...we would be in the shite were in now Are you proposing we allow every single person in the population to vote? The referendum was open to everyone in the electorate. no but i would like voting to be mandatory....i think brexiters are a bit disingenuous like your being when you say about the vote result " In what way disingenuous? The decision was made that the referendum would be based on a majority decision. 52% of those who voted, voted Leave. It could have gone either way on the same basis. Remember the government controlling it at the time - the tories under Cameron, were in favour of Remain. I don't think they squewed it against what they wanted. It just turned out opposite to what they hoped and advised. | |||
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"Why did they spend months putting bids together when theyve known they'll be out of the EU by then for over a year? "Why did they waste money on the bids? £hundreds of thousands. Councils that say that they are short of money and that are cutting essential services. Political posturing of course. Trying to show that they want to stay in the EU and hope that we will never leave. The 3 bidders were: Dundee - SNP/Independent controlled council and of course Dundee voted to remain, and we all know Scotland's position on leaving the EU. Leeds - Labour controlled council. Voted narrowly to remain. Milton Keynes - Hung council. Voted to leave. Politicians ignoring the will of the people. | |||
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"Why did they spend months putting bids together when theyve known they'll be out of the EU by then for over a year?
The following cities have two things in common. Given the context of the post, can you think what they are?
Reykjavik, Stavanger and Istanbul.
They are either in EFTA, the customs union, or have applied to join EU fully.
These are all IN the criteria required.
Leaving ISN’T. It’s not exactly rocket science!"And when the decision was to be made, we would still be IN and contributing; a contribution that includes monies to the EU department responsible for overseeing the award. | |||
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"Why did they spend months putting bids together when theyve known they'll be out of the EU by then for over a year?
Why did they waste money on the bids? £hundreds of thousands. Councils that say that they are short of money and that are cutting essential services.
Political posturing of course. Trying to show that they want to stay in the EU and hope that we will never leave.
The 3 bidders were:
Dundee - SNP/Independent controlled council and of course Dundee voted to remain, and we all know Scotland's position on leaving the EU.
Leeds - Labour controlled council. Voted narrowly to remain.
Milton Keynes - Hung council. Voted to leave. Politicians ignoring the will of the people.
"There was also Belfast/Strabane and Nottingham. Nottingham's bid was largely funded by sponsorship. | |||
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" More labour seats voted leave, by bigger margins than Tory seats. But there was a mix across all political parties (except UKIP I assume). To equate party voting preferences with referendum choice is clearly garbage. Labours NE strongholds were among the most leave voting regions in the whole country. Tory strongholds in the south almost all voted remain." That's right, I'm not. I'm saying the opposite. Presuming all on set of voters have the same mindset is nonsense. | |||
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" I never said anything like that about Gove. I recall you twisting something like that, but even you reading it now can see how fake it is? You are clutching at such silly straws. People voted Leave for various reasons. People voted Remain for various reasons. Presuming to know why all of them did that is ridiculous. Lumping Brexiters together and Remainers together as a homogeneous like-thinking mass is wrong. So you don't think that people who voted remain did so because they wanted the UK to remain in the EU?
God, this is tedious. They voted to Remain for various *reasons*. Not the same reasons.
You do realise a lot of remain voters are die-hard tories. Do you lump yourself together with them? The Labour party has voted for the Leave bills, so presumably you classify them as stupid Brexiters too?
Is it really so difficult to accept that a referendum on one topic has so many varying reasons for support and opposition?"People who voted remain, did so because they wanted the UK to remain in the EU. People who voted leave, did so because they wanted the UK to leave the EU. Surely we can all agree on that? | |||
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" People who voted remain, did so because they wanted the UK to remain in the EU. People who voted leave, did so because they wanted the UK to leave the EU. Surely we can all agree on that? " Well done Mr Holmes. And did they all cast their vote for the same *reason*? | |||
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" no ... you're quite correct ... your ammendment doesn't change anything ... you're still attempting to pass off a bogus statistic of 50% of people ... do you think that nobody on the thread noticed that your 50% statistic is completelt fabricated? it really is a bit conceited of you to try to speak for half the people when you haven't a clue what half the people actually want What are you talking about? 52% voted leave. That's not bogus. I'm saying nobody knows the reasons they all voted leave, and nobody knows why all the 48% voted remain. Blurting out 'brexiters' this , 'remainers' that is bullshit, lazy and prejudiced, whoever says it." and that's why i've pulled you up on it, because that's exactly what you are guilty of doing yourself lol | |||
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" no ... you're quite correct ... your ammendment doesn't change anything ... you're still attempting to pass off a bogus statistic of 50% of people ... do you think that nobody on the thread noticed that your 50% statistic is completelt fabricated? it really is a bit conceited of you to try to speak for half the people when you haven't a clue what half the people actually want What are you talking about? 52% voted leave. That's not bogus. I'm saying nobody knows the reasons they all voted leave, and nobody knows why all the 48% voted remain. Blurting out 'brexiters' this , 'remainers' that is bullshit, lazy and prejudiced, whoever says it. and that's why i've pulled you up on it, because that's exactly what you are guilty of doing yourself lol" Copy and paste it in please, or a link to thread. If you can't find me saying it anywhere ever, I'll accept an apology instead. | |||
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"it wasn't 52% of the population though...if the Tories had stuck to there striking rules laws that they made...we would be in the shite were in now" If the Tories had stuck to what? What is 'there striking rules laws'? | |||
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" People who voted remain, did so because they wanted the UK to remain in the EU. People who voted leave, did so because they wanted the UK to leave the EU. Surely we can all agree on that? Well done Mr Holmes. And did they all cast their vote for the same *reason*?" Because they either wanted to remain, or leave | |||
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"Are we ready as a city to open up to Europe? Are we willing to engage in a dialogue with the rest of Europe and the world and reflect on the contribution we would like to make to the EU integration project? Are we ready as a city to further explore the many different cultural expressions – including those coming from migrant communities – present in our territory and expose our population to the richness and diversity of cultural expressions coming from abroad?" In 2023 no UK city will be making a contribution to the EU integration project. A large part (not all) of the leave vote was driven by anti-migrant feeling. And it should be obvious that the EU capital of culture shouldnt be from the only country to have rejected the EU so forcefully, particularly when one of the only "red line" issues May hasnt given up on is the free migration of EU citizens. Regardless of when the decision is made if they arent in the EU when they need to act as the cultural centre of the EU then they cant be chosen. But its not as if the UK government cant choose one of them as the UK capital of culture anyway. And for all the faux outrage 4 bids were getting rejected anyway. | |||
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"The brexiters wanted many different things.The remainers wanted one.To remain. and now they want to sit back, eat popcorn and watch the fireworks
Have you spoken to 'them' all to confirm that?
haven't you?
I'm not stupid enough to think that 50% of the population has one homogeneous opinion, so I wouldn't waste my time."Of course they don't have one homogenous opinion, but CLCC specifically said: "Brexiters think you get more benefits when you are not part of the club." To which you replied that different people think different things and that not all brexiteers think the same thing. To which I pointed out, the one thing that SURELY all Brexiters must agree on (by definition) is that we'd be better out of the EU (not part of the club). It doesn't matter WHY they think that, but surely the fact they voted to leave, they must think that. Otherwise if you are someone who voted to leave the EU but don't think we'd be better off out of the EU then you are stupid. Or not capable of actually thinking, and just did what someone told you to do. -Matt | |||
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"it wasn't 52% of the population though...if the Tories had stuck to there striking rules laws that they made...we would be in the shite were in now If the Tories had stuck to what? What is 'there striking rules laws'?" You tell me | |||
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"Copy and paste it in please, or a link to thread. If you can't find me saying it anywhere ever, I'll accept an apology instead." it's no good you being in denial ... that won't help your agenda lady | |||
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"it wasn't 52% of the population though...if the Tories had stuck to there striking rules laws that they made...we would be in the shite were in now If the Tories had stuck to what? What is 'there striking rules laws'? You tell me "I have no idea. That is why I asked. You wrote it so surely you know what it means? | |||
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"it wasn't 52% of the population though...if the Tories had stuck to there striking rules laws that they made...we would be in the shite were in now If the Tories had stuck to what? What is 'there striking rules laws'? You tell me
I have no idea. That is why I asked.
You wrote it so surely you know what it means?"Oh i do...im just waiting on your clever answer as per | |||
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"it wasn't 52% of the population though...if the Tories had stuck to there striking rules laws that they made...we would be in the shite were in now If the Tories had stuck to what? What is 'there striking rules laws'? You tell me
I have no idea. That is why I asked.
You wrote it so surely you know what it means?
Oh i do...im just waiting on your clever answer as per"I'm flattered you think so highly of my responses! So what did you mean by 'there striking rules laws' because it is double Dutch to me. Or are you actually talking rubbish? | |||
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"it wasn't 52% of the population though...if the Tories had stuck to there striking rules laws that they made...we would be in the shite were in now If the Tories had stuck to what? What is 'there striking rules laws'? You tell me
I have no idea. That is why I asked.
You wrote it so surely you know what it means?
Oh i do...im just waiting on your clever answer as per
I'm flattered you think so highly of my responses!
So what did you mean by 'there striking rules laws' because it is double Dutch to me. Or are you actually talking rubbish?"You tell me...you seem to enjoy trolling me | |||
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"The brexiters wanted many different things.The remainers wanted one.To remain. and now they want to sit back, eat popcorn and watch the fireworks
Have you spoken to 'them' all to confirm that?
haven't you?
I'm not stupid enough to think that 50% of the population has one homogeneous opinion, so I wouldn't waste my time.
Of course they don't have one homogenous opinion, but CLCC specifically said:
"Brexiters think you get more benefits when you are not part of the club."
To which you replied that different people think different things and that not all brexiteers think the same thing.
To which I pointed out, the one thing that SURELY all Brexiters must agree on (by definition) is that we'd be better out of the EU (not part of the club). It doesn't matter WHY they think that, but surely the fact they voted to leave, they must think that. Otherwise if you are someone who voted to leave the EU but don't think we'd be better off out of the EU then you are stupid. Or not capable of actually thinking, and just did what someone told you to do.
-Matt"Well, CLCC has his own motives for making these comments against swathes of the population, which I don't presume to know. There's different versions of 'better off' . Being able to be a capital of culture is one form of being better off. Being financially better off is another. Leaving or staying has benefits and losses both ways with both types of benefit. My point in general, is my frustration with people who claim to be intelligent and non-prejudicial, who bandy about 'brexiter' and 'remainer' or 'remoaner' in sweeping generalisations. 'Remainers' don't have the same mindset anymore than 'Leavers' do. As I've mentioned before, this forum seems less and less about having a sensible discussion, and more and more about snide name calling and political point scoring. | |||
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"it wasn't 52% of the population though...if the Tories had stuck to there striking rules laws that they made...we would be in the shite were in now If the Tories had stuck to what? What is 'there striking rules laws'? You tell me
I have no idea. That is why I asked.
You wrote it so surely you know what it means?
Oh i do...im just waiting on your clever answer as per
I'm flattered you think so highly of my responses!
So what did you mean by 'there striking rules laws' because it is double Dutch to me. Or are you actually talking rubbish?"I think its in reference to the Tory changes to the way unions have to now get 50%+ of all of their electorate for strike action, rather than just 50%+ of people who actually voted. | |||
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"The brexiters wanted many different things.The remainers wanted one.To remain." That is right, brexitors want to devide a country, whilst a remainer want to be together, brexitors are toxic for a countrys health. | |||
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"Copy and paste it in please, or a link to thread. If you can't find me saying it anywhere ever, I'll accept an apology instead. it's no good you being in denial ... that won't help your agenda lady" So, you've not found me saying it anywhere, but havn't got the bottle to say so. | |||
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"The brexiters wanted many different things.The remainers wanted one.To remain.That is right, brexitors want to devide a country, whilst a remainer want to be together, brexitors are toxic for a countrys health." What an nice uniting comment
Completely contradict yourself in one sentence. Exactly the kind of nasty divisive comment I'm talking about. | |||
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"it wasn't 52% of the population though...if the Tories had stuck to there striking rules laws that they made...we would be in the shite were in now If the Tories had stuck to what? What is 'there striking rules laws'? You tell me
I have no idea. That is why I asked.
You wrote it so surely you know what it means?
Oh i do...im just waiting on your clever answer as per
I'm flattered you think so highly of my responses!
So what did you mean by 'there striking rules laws' because it is double Dutch to me. Or are you actually talking rubbish?
I think its in reference to the Tory changes to the way unions have to now get 50%+ of all of their electorate for strike action, rather than just 50%+ of people who actually voted."Why didn't he say that? That's not how elections are run though is it? The tories who set the election up wanted us to remain too, why didn't they do it that way? | |||
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"it wasn't 52% of the population though...if the Tories had stuck to there striking rules laws that they made...we would be in the shite were in now If the Tories had stuck to what? What is 'there striking rules laws'? You tell me
I have no idea. That is why I asked.
You wrote it so surely you know what it means?
Oh i do...im just waiting on your clever answer as per
I'm flattered you think so highly of my responses!
So what did you mean by 'there striking rules laws' because it is double Dutch to me. Or are you actually talking rubbish?
I think its in reference to the Tory changes to the way unions have to now get 50%+ of all of their electorate for strike action, rather than just 50%+ of people who actually voted.
Why didn't he say that?
That's not how elections are run though is it? The tories who set the election up wanted us to remain too, why didn't they do it that way?"I explained why i didnt....read back | |||
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"The brexiters wanted many different things.The remainers wanted one.To remain.That is right, brexitors want to devide a country, whilst a remainer want to be together, brexitors are toxic for a countrys health. What an nice uniting comment
Completely contradict yourself in one sentence. Exactly the kind of nasty divisive comment I'm talking about. "Most of us think the same, some just dont dare to say it lol. | |||
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" That's not how elections are run though is it? The tories who set the election up wanted us to remain too, why didn't they do it that way? I explained why i didnt....read back "I did. It didn't make sense. We don't run elections for government like that. The same tories who set up those labour laws wanted us to Remain, and they set up the referendum... | |||
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" That's not how elections are run though is it? The tories who set the election up wanted us to remain too, why didn't they do it that way? I explained why i didnt....read back
I did. It didn't make sense. We don't run elections for government like that. The same tories who set up those labour laws wanted us to Remain, and they set up the referendum..."Like i said read back if your capable too | |||
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" brexitors are toxic for a countrys health. What an nice uniting comment
Completely contradict yourself in one sentence. Exactly the kind of nasty divisive comment I'm talking about. Most of us think the same, some just dont dare to say it lol."I've never met someone who voted remain who would say something like that. How do you know 'most of us' have the same nasty opinion? | |||
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" That's not how elections are run though is it? The tories who set the election up wanted us to remain too, why didn't they do it that way? I explained why i didnt....read back
I did. It didn't make sense. We don't run elections for government like that. The same tories who set up those labour laws wanted us to Remain, and they set up the referendum...
Like i said read back if your capable too "I have and I am capable, thanks. But as I said, the tory remain supporters who made the labour laws you are talking about also set up the referendum, so it's a bit of an odd-ball link tbh... | |||
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" brexitors are toxic for a countrys health. What an nice uniting comment
Completely contradict yourself in one sentence. Exactly the kind of nasty divisive comment I'm talking about. Most of us think the same, some just dont dare to say it lol.
I've never met someone who voted remain who would say something like that. How do you know 'most of us' have the same nasty opinion?"Cos they wouldnt say what they thought, most know brexit is bad, except brexiters. | |||
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" brexitors are toxic for a countrys health. What an nice uniting comment
Completely contradict yourself in one sentence. Exactly the kind of nasty divisive comment I'm talking about. Most of us think the same, some just dont dare to say it lol.
I've never met someone who voted remain who would say something like that. How do you know 'most of us' have the same nasty opinion?"Because you voted for something nasty? Just a guess. | |||
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" That's not how elections are run though is it? The tories who set the election up wanted us to remain too, why didn't they do it that way? I explained why i didnt....read back
I did. It didn't make sense. We don't run elections for government like that. The same tories who set up those labour laws wanted us to Remain, and they set up the referendum...
Like i said read back if your capable too
I have and I am capable, thanks. But as I said, the tory remain supporters who made the labour laws you are talking about also set up the referendum, so it's a bit of an odd-ball link tbh..."Yes and i said IF....can you see that...or just that parts YOU want to see | |||
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"Copy and paste it in please, or a link to thread. If you can't find me saying it anywhere ever, I'll accept an apology instead. it's no good you being in denial ... that won't help your agenda lady So, you've not found me saying it anywhere, but havn't got the bottle to say so." yes ... just scroll up and read your previous posts luvvie ... if you're going to bury your head over it then there's nothing more for you to say really | |||
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" I've never met someone who voted remain who would say something like that. How do you know 'most of us' have the same nasty opinion? Because you voted for something nasty? Just a guess." the 'most of us' quote was in reference to his post about 'most of us' believing 'brexiters' are toxic. | |||
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"Copy and paste it in please, or a link to thread. If you can't find me saying it anywhere ever, I'll accept an apology instead. it's no good you being in denial ... that won't help your agenda lady So, you've not found me saying it anywhere, but havn't got the bottle to say so. yes ... just scroll up and read your previous posts luvvie ... if you're going to bury your head over it then there's nothing more for you to say really" I have, and I didn't. Copy and paste it in to prove your point, it's quite simple... | |||
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" yes ... just scroll up and read your previous posts luvvie ... if you're going to bury your head over it then there's nothing more for you to say really I have, and I didn't. Copy and paste it in to prove your point, it's quite simple..." it is simple ....scroll up and read sweetpea | |||
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" yes ... just scroll up and read your previous posts luvvie ... if you're going to bury your head over it then there's nothing more for you to say really I have, and I didn't. Copy and paste it in to prove your point, it's quite simple... it is simple ....scroll up and read sweetpea" you're just trolling. goodbye. | |||
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"you're just trolling. goodbye." no need to throw insults | |||
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"you're just trolling. goodbye. no need to throw insults "It wasn't an insult sweetheart, you are just repeatedly saying I said something which i didn't. | |||
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"you're just trolling. goodbye. no need to throw insults
It wasn't an insult sweetheart, you are just repeatedly saying I said something which i didn't."no, flower .... i'm repeatedly saying you said something which you did ... it's in print up there ^^^ | |||
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"you're just trolling. goodbye. no need to throw insults
It wasn't an insult sweetheart, you are just repeatedly saying I said something which i didn't.
no, flower .... i'm repeatedly saying you said something which you did ... it's in print up there ^^^ "goodbye | |||
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"it wasn't 52% of the population though...if the Tories had stuck to there striking rules laws that they made...we would be in the shite were in now If the Tories had stuck to what? What is 'there striking rules laws'? You tell me
I have no idea. That is why I asked.
You wrote it so surely you know what it means?
Oh i do...im just waiting on your clever answer as per
I'm flattered you think so highly of my responses!
So what did you mean by 'there striking rules laws' because it is double Dutch to me. Or are you actually talking rubbish?
I think its in reference to the Tory changes to the way unions have to now get 50%+ of all of their electorate for strike action, rather than just 50%+ of people who actually voted."Thank you for the explanation. But isn't that what happened? The result was determined by those who actually voted! As it should be when voting for strike action. Changing the method of voting to skew results in your favour would make you as bad as the Tories. | |||
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"not hosting the event will clearly save expenditure in the long run though ... and seeing as how the country has been financially shafted by recent government actions then that's a good thing "These things are mostly funded by the EU, and tend to attract investment to the city that wins it. So, not sure how it'll save expenditure in the long run. | |||
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"not hosting the event will clearly save expenditure in the long run though ... and seeing as how the country has been financially shafted by recent government actions then that's a good thing
These things are mostly funded by the EU, and tend to attract investment to the city that wins it.
So, not sure how it'll save expenditure in the long run."just ponder it long enough and then you'll work it out | |||
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"it wasn't 52% of the population though...if the Tories had stuck to there striking rules laws that they made...we would be in the shite were in now If the Tories had stuck to what? What is 'there striking rules laws'? You tell me
I have no idea. That is why I asked.
You wrote it so surely you know what it means?
Oh i do...im just waiting on your clever answer as per
I'm flattered you think so highly of my responses!
So what did you mean by 'there striking rules laws' because it is double Dutch to me. Or are you actually talking rubbish?
I think its in reference to the Tory changes to the way unions have to now get 50%+ of all of their electorate for strike action, rather than just 50%+ of people who actually voted.
Thank you for the explanation.
But isn't that what happened? The result was determined by those who actually voted! As it should be when voting for strike action.
Changing the method of voting to skew results in your favour would make you as bad as the Tories."If was the key word you conveniently missed | |||
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"not hosting the event will clearly save expenditure in the long run though ... and seeing as how the country has been financially shafted by recent government actions then that's a good thing
These things are mostly funded by the EU, and tend to attract investment to the city that wins it.
So, not sure how it'll save expenditure in the long run.
just ponder it long enough and then you'll work it out "Or you could not be needlessly obtuse. | |||
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"not hosting the event will clearly save expenditure in the long run though ... and seeing as how the country has been financially shafted by recent government actions then that's a good thing
These things are mostly funded by the EU, and tend to attract investment to the city that wins it.
So, not sure how it'll save expenditure in the long run.
just ponder it long enough and then you'll work it out
Or you could not be needlessly obtuse."try not being needlessly and deliberately contrary for once instead | |||
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"not hosting the event will clearly save expenditure in the long run though ... and seeing as how the country has been financially shafted by recent government actions then that's a good thing
These things are mostly funded by the EU, and tend to attract investment to the city that wins it.
So, not sure how it'll save expenditure in the long run.
just ponder it long enough and then you'll work it out
Or you could not be needlessly obtuse.
try not being needlessly and deliberately contrary for once instead "I get the feeling there isn't a deeper point to be gleaned here, and you just didn't know how the city of culture program works. | |||
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"not hosting the event will clearly save expenditure in the long run though ... and seeing as how the country has been financially shafted by recent government actions then that's a good thing
These things are mostly funded by the EU, and tend to attract investment to the city that wins it.
So, not sure how it'll save expenditure in the long run.
just ponder it long enough and then you'll work it out
Or you could not be needlessly obtuse.
try not being needlessly and deliberately contrary for once instead
I get the feeling there isn't a deeper point to be gleaned here, and you just didn't know how the city of culture program works."that's just another wild guess on your part | |||
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"Given your unwillingness, or perhaps inability, to articulate yourself, what else would you have me do?" get back to the playground | |||
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"Given your unwillingness, or perhaps inability, to articulate yourself, what else would you have me do?" if you build a nice house you have to spend money on it’s upkeep. That’s what my pondering has got to. Old house for all ! | |||
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"Given your unwillingness, or perhaps inability, to articulate yourself, what else would you have me do? get back to the playground" I'm afraid I'll have to decline your request and also leave you to your own devices. | |||
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"Given your unwillingness, or perhaps inability, to articulate yourself, what else would you have me do? get back to the playground I'm afraid I'll have to decline your request and also leave you to your own devices. " thank fuck for that! | |||
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"I'm not stupid enough to think that 50% of the population has one homogeneous opinion, so I wouldn't waste my time. maybe ... but the you are offering up a imaginary statistic of 50% and attempting to pass it off to intelligent folks as a psuedo fact though aren't you I'm not stupid enough to think that 50% of the voters has one homogeneous opinion, so I wouldn't waste my time. . That better? Doesn't change anything. The fact remains that I respect other peoples views and that they hold them for different reasons and those views combine to make them vote one way or the other. I don't presume to know or understand their reasons. Luckily, I have never encountered people in everyday life who speak with the vitriol and bitterness as in this forum." Bunandbuck yes there is a lot of vitriolic statements being banded out in this forum , mainly by the remain brigade. The usual crap about the leave voters having the combined intellect of a packet of peanuts . The vote is done . We are leaving . Now let's get on with it and get on with each other and stop the childish insults . Just saying !! | |||
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" Doesn't change anything. The fact remains that I respect other peoples views and that they hold them for different reasons and those views combine to make them vote one way or the other. I don't presume to know or understand their reasons. Luckily, I have never encountered people in everyday life who speak with the vitriol and bitterness as in this forum. Bunandbuck yes there is a lot of vitriolic statements being banded out in this forum , mainly by the remain brigade. The usual crap about the leave voters having the combined intellect of a packet of peanuts . The vote is done . We are leaving . Now let's get on with it and get on with each other and stop the childish insults . Just saying !!" It would be good to discuss in here too. I agree 'most' of the nastiness does come from 'remain' supporters, not exclusively, and some make good valid points worth discussing. Yes, we are leaving, and it would be nice, once, to have some opinions on outcomes people would propose (beyond just cancel the whole thing). | |||
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" Doesn't change anything. The fact remains that I respect other peoples views and that they hold them for different reasons and those views combine to make them vote one way or the other. I don't presume to know or understand their reasons. Luckily, I have never encountered people in everyday life who speak with the vitriol and bitterness as in this forum. Bunandbuck yes there is a lot of vitriolic statements being banded out in this forum , mainly by the remain brigade. The usual crap about the leave voters having the combined intellect of a packet of peanuts . The vote is done . We are leaving . Now let's get on with it and get on with each other and stop the childish insults . Just saying !! It would be good to discuss in here too. I agree 'most' of the nastiness does come from 'remain' supporters, not exclusively, and some make good valid points worth discussing. Yes, we are leaving, and it would be nice, once, to have some opinions on outcomes people would propose (beyond just cancel the whole thing)." Absolutely . So let's try and discuss going forward instead of whining  | |||
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" Doesn't change anything. The fact remains that I respect other peoples views and that they hold them for different reasons and those views combine to make them vote one way or the other. I don't presume to know or understand their reasons. Luckily, I have never encountered people in everyday life who speak with the vitriol and bitterness as in this forum. Bunandbuck yes there is a lot of vitriolic statements being banded out in this forum , mainly by the remain brigade. The usual crap about the leave voters having the combined intellect of a packet of peanuts . The vote is done . We are leaving . Now let's get on with it and get on with each other and stop the childish insults . Just saying !! It would be good to discuss in here too. I agree 'most' of the nastiness does come from 'remain' supporters, not exclusively, and some make good valid points worth discussing. Yes, we are leaving, and it would be nice, once, to have some opinions on outcomes people would propose (beyond just cancel the whole thing). Absolutely . So let's try and discuss going forward instead of whining "So instead of the people who created the problems, who lied and said their wouldn't be any problems, fixing problems of their own making, you want the people who forewarned you of the problems to now fix it | |||
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"I'm not stupid enough to think that 50% of the population has one homogeneous opinion, so I wouldn't waste my time. maybe ... but the you are offering up a imaginary statistic of 50% and attempting to pass it off to intelligent folks as a psuedo fact though aren't you I'm not stupid enough to think that 50% of the voters has one homogeneous opinion, so I wouldn't waste my time. . That better? Doesn't change anything. The fact remains that I respect other peoples views and that they hold them for different reasons and those views combine to make them vote one way or the other. I don't presume to know or understand their reasons. Luckily, I have never encountered people in everyday life who speak with the vitriol and bitterness as in this forum. Bunandbuck yes there is a lot of vitriolic statements being banded out in this forum , mainly by the remain brigade. The usual crap about the leave voters having the combined intellect of a packet of peanuts . The vote is done . We are leaving . Now let's get on with it and get on with each other and stop the childish insults . Just saying !!" I think you'll find a lot more vitriol coming from the Leave side, their hatred of the EU, of EU citizens, or EU institutions, or the British public, of the UK parliament, of the UK legal system, of the UK Supreme Court, of our international allies who said it was a bad idea, of experts from the military, business, finance, economics, farming, science, academia etc. | |||
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" So instead of the people who created the problems, who lied and said their wouldn't be any problems, fixing problems of their own making, you want the people who forewarned you of the problems to now fix it "Both campaigns lied and span half truths. The campaigns began coming up to 2 years ago, the decision over 1 year ago. That is the situation we are now in, that the country as a whole decided upon. In my opinion the vast majority of posts on here are just reasons the decision was wrong. Well you may as well post endlessly about why past general election results were wrong. I think anyone with a true interest in politics and a will for the country's succesful future would be bursting with suggestions. As mentioned before, those who voted leave did for for different reasons to each other. I will argue for the type of brexit that I think is right against someone who thinks a different type of brexit is right. Saying the whole thing is shite and throwing the toys out achieves nothing. In my opinion. | |||
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" So instead of the people who created the problems, who lied and said their wouldn't be any problems, fixing problems of their own making, you want the people who forewarned you of the problems to now fix it
Both campaigns lied and span half truths.
The campaigns began coming up to 2 years ago, the decision over 1 year ago.
That is the situation we are now in, that the country as a whole decided upon.
In my opinion the vast majority of posts on here are just reasons the decision was wrong. Well you may as well post endlessly about why past general election results were wrong.
I think anyone with a true interest in politics and a will for the country's succesful future would be bursting with suggestions.
As mentioned before, those who voted leave did for for different reasons to each other. I will argue for the type of brexit that I think is right against someone who thinks a different type of brexit is right.
Saying the whole thing is shite and throwing the toys out achieves nothing. In my opinion."^ | |||
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" I think you'll find a lot more vitriol coming from the Leave side, their hatred of the EU, of EU citizens, or EU institutions, or the British public, of the UK parliament, of the UK legal system, of the UK Supreme Court, of our international allies who said it was a bad idea, of experts from the military, business, finance, economics, farming, science, academia etc. " In here, or in general? Either way, nasty behaviour by one person doesn't make it ok as a norm. | |||
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" I think you'll find a lot more vitriol coming from the Leave side, their hatred of the EU, of EU citizens, or EU institutions, or the British public, of the UK parliament, of the UK legal system, of the UK Supreme Court, of our international allies who said it was a bad idea, of experts from the military, business, finance, economics, farming, science, academia etc. In here, or in general? Either way, nasty behaviour by one person doesn't make it ok as a norm." I think what myself and Bunandbuck are trying to say is that instead of just slagging off leave voters as people who apparently hate everything in existence , let's discuss suggestions on moving the country forward in a polite non vitriolic manner .Brexit is happening . So what do we think we should do now. Let's look forward not backwards | |||
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"This is the bit many remainers get frustrated with. They see there are issues in leaving. From ireland to medicine to the economy. That, for some, if not many, is why they voted to remain. And now they are being told to come up with solutions to problems they warned leavers about. Someone described it as being on a boat, and your mate pulls you off it and then demands you help swim them to shore as they can’t swim well. But refuse the suggestion of getting back on the boat. " I'd suggest that is a reasonable analogy x | |||
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"I think what myself and Bunandbuck are trying to say is that instead of just slagging off leave voters as people who apparently hate everything in existence , let's discuss suggestions on moving the country forward in a polite non vitriolic manner .Brexit is happening . So what do we think we should do now. Let's look forward not backwards "That' exactly what I'm saying. It would be nice for someone herw ro say, for example 'my bigget concern about brexit is the potential shortage of skilled nurses, I think we should introduce a visa scheme specifically for that' etc etc Then people can discuss them and if and how to implent such things. | |||
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"This is the bit many remainers get frustrated with. They see there are issues in leaving. From ireland to medicine to the economy. That, for some, if not many, is why they voted to remain. And now they are being told to come up with solutions to problems they warned leavers about. Someone described it as being on a boat, and your mate pulls you off it and then demands you help swim them to shore as they can’t swim well. But refuse the suggestion of getting back on the boat. I'd suggest that is a reasonable analogy x" So, let's say you are all now adrift in the boat. As an intelligent passenger do you sit and sulk about the situation you find yourself in, doing nothing but berate the others. Or do you use your skill, experience and intellect to guide the boat to the best possible outcome for everyone in it? | |||
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" I think you'll find a lot more vitriol coming from the Leave side, their hatred of the EU, of EU citizens, or EU institutions, or the British public, of the UK parliament, of the UK legal system, of the UK Supreme Court, of our international allies who said it was a bad idea, of experts from the military, business, finance, economics, farming, science, academia etc. In here, or in general? Either way, nasty behaviour by one person doesn't make it ok as a norm. I think what myself and Bunandbuck are trying to say is that instead of just slagging off leave voters as people who apparently hate everything in existence , let's discuss suggestions on moving the country forward in a polite non vitriolic manner .Brexit is happening . So what do we think we should do now. Let's look forward not backwards "Actually calling me a whinger is slagging and not forward thinking or productive x I'm in a fortunate position that I can watch with amusement as the future unfolds and I don't see why bullying from exist side should force me to be complicit with a direction I'm not comfortable promoting ? It is for exit people to illustrate I'm wrong x | |||
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" So instead of the people who created the problems, who lied and said their wouldn't be any problems, fixing problems of their own making, you want the people who forewarned you of the problems to now fix it
Both campaigns lied and span half truths.
The campaigns began coming up to 2 years ago, the decision over 1 year ago.
That is the situation we are now in, that the country as a whole decided upon.
In my opinion the vast majority of posts on here are just reasons the decision was wrong. Well you may as well post endlessly about why past general election results were wrong.
I think anyone with a true interest in politics and a will for the country's succesful future would be bursting with suggestions.
As mentioned before, those who voted leave did for for different reasons to each other. I will argue for the type of brexit that I think is right against someone who thinks a different type of brexit is right.
Saying the whole thing is shite and throwing the toys out achieves nothing. In my opinion."Could you then please explain what half truths were told on the leave sise ? | |||
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"This is the bit many remainers get frustrated with. They see there are issues in leaving. From ireland to medicine to the economy. That, for some, if not many, is why they voted to remain. And now they are being told to come up with solutions to problems they warned leavers about. Someone described it as being on a boat, and your mate pulls you off it and then demands you help swim them to shore as they can’t swim well. But refuse the suggestion of getting back on the boat. I'd suggest that is a reasonable analogy x So, let's say you are all now adrift in the boat. As an intelligent passenger do you sit and sulk about the situation you find yourself in, doing nothing but berate the others. Or do you use your skill, experience and intellect to guide the boat to the best possible outcome for everyone in it?" But these were the so called leave examples given at the time of the vote and you have dismissed them as scaremongering and whinging....or have i missed something ? | |||
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" Could you then please explain what half truths were told on the leave sise ?" Leave : £350m for nhs. Remain : £15bn tax hike in emergency budget, recession. Both untrue. Both history. My point is what do you want next? | |||
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" I'm in a fortunate position that I can watch with amusement as the future unfolds and I don't see why bullying from exist side should force me to be complicit with a direction I'm not comfortable promoting ? It is for exit people to illustrate I'm wrong x" I don't think being asked for your ideas on how to shape the future is bullying. But you are free to participate or exclude yourself as you think best. | |||
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" I'm in a fortunate position that I can watch with amusement as the future unfolds and I don't see why bullying from exist side should force me to be complicit with a direction I'm not comfortable promoting ? It is for exit people to illustrate I'm wrong x I don't think being asked for your ideas on how to shape the future is bullying. But you are free to participate or exclude yourself as you think best." ^ | |||
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" Could you then please explain what half truths were told on the leave sise ? Leave : £350m for nhs. Remain : £15bn tax hike in emergency budget, recession. Both untrue. Both history. My point is what do you want next?" Well the first one was wrong totally...the second has yet to be seen as we are bordering ohn recession. Me i want the normal people the hard working or the poorest in our society not to get fucked over by this....but something inside says they will...we got a few hints from the budget | |||
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" I'm in a fortunate position that I can watch with amusement as the future unfolds and I don't see why bullying from exist side should force me to be complicit with a direction I'm not comfortable promoting ? It is for exit people to illustrate I'm wrong x I don't think being asked for your ideas on how to shape the future is bullying. But you are free to participate or exclude yourself as you think best." I think you are intelligent enough to understand passive aggressive Now now remainers don't be awkward now we are in a pickle you could always help out by agreeing with the direction we want , of course if you don't we will calmly suggest you are being awkward and counter productive xxx Thing is I am very pro remain We all know exit has no intention or desire in listening to let alone following any course of action I or any other pro remain would offer , what you as exist request is we quietly accept the exit direction . Although that's a misnomer as direction is singular and we all know there are a vast number of differing , sometimes contrary exit directions x | |||
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" I'm in a fortunate position that I can watch with amusement as the future unfolds and I don't see why bullying from exist side should force me to be complicit with a direction I'm not comfortable promoting ? It is for exit people to illustrate I'm wrong x I don't think being asked for your ideas on how to shape the future is bullying. But you are free to participate or exclude yourself as you think best. ^ "Lol | |||
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"This is the bit many remainers get frustrated with. They see there are issues in leaving. From ireland to medicine to the economy. That, for some, if not many, is why they voted to remain. And now they are being told to come up with solutions to problems they warned leavers about. Someone described it as being on a boat, and your mate pulls you off it and then demands you help swim them to shore as they can’t swim well. But refuse the suggestion of getting back on the boat. I'd suggest that is a reasonable analogy x So, let's say you are all now adrift in the boat. As an intelligent passenger do you sit and sulk about the situation you find yourself in, doing nothing but berate the others. Or do you use your skill, experience and intellect to guide the boat to the best possible outcome for everyone in it?" Of course that depends who the skipper is and what control I have and my options Of course based upon my predicament it is likely that the majority on board will argue with me belittle my ideas and totally ignore my skill and experience thus not wanting to become another tragic sunken ship statistic , I would have already made contingency plans that myself and any other could leave the drifting boat , into my sailing boat which would have made sure it's provisions were well stocked and a good course made with a crew of shipmates who would be happy to follow my direction and lead xxx Oh just as I am doing | |||
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"This is the bit many remainers get frustrated with. They see there are issues in leaving. From ireland to medicine to the economy. That, for some, if not many, is why they voted to remain. And now they are being told to come up with solutions to problems they warned leavers about. Someone described it as being on a boat, and your mate pulls you off it and then demands you help swim them to shore as they can’t swim well. But refuse the suggestion of getting back on the boat. I'd suggest that is a reasonable analogy x So, let's say you are all now adrift in the boat. As an intelligent passenger do you sit and sulk about the situation you find yourself in, doing nothing but berate the others. Or do you use your skill, experience and intellect to guide the boat to the best possible outcome for everyone in it?" . Why are we adrift ? Did we go all Luddite in the engine because it was made in the EU ?
Now I don’t disagree IF we cannot reverse out the situation leavers would be cutting off their nose to just continue with vitriol. But if we are to all pull together then we need to also accept the challenges are of our own making. The “we won ergo I was right” attitude is as unhelpful as the “you’re racist idiots”. | |||
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"This is the bit many remainers get frustrated with. They see there are issues in leaving. From ireland to medicine to the economy. That, for some, if not many, is why they voted to remain. And now they are being told to come up with solutions to problems they warned leavers about. Someone described it as being on a boat, and your mate pulls you off it and then demands you help swim them to shore as they can’t swim well. But refuse the suggestion of getting back on the boat. I'd suggest that is a reasonable analogy x So, let's say you are all now adrift in the boat. As an intelligent passenger do you sit and sulk about the situation you find yourself in, doing nothing but berate the others. Or do you use your skill, experience and intellect to guide the boat to the best possible outcome for everyone in it?. Why are we adrift ? Did we go all Luddite in the engine because it was made in the EU ?
Now I don’t disagree IF we cannot reverse out the situation leavers would be cutting off their nose to just continue with vitriol. But if we are to all pull together then we need to also accept the challenges are of our own making. The “we won ergo I was right” attitude is as unhelpful as the “you’re racist idiots”. "The situation is of 'our' making. Not participating in the discussion seems akin to the opposition refusing to sit in Parliament. In any situation, I try to steer things to include as many aspects I think are important. Nobody is going to get an outcome that matches all their goals. | |||
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"This is the bit many remainers get frustrated with. They see there are issues in leaving. From ireland to medicine to the economy. That, for some, if not many, is why they voted to remain. And now they are being told to come up with solutions to problems they warned leavers about. Someone described it as being on a boat, and your mate pulls you off it and then demands you help swim them to shore as they can’t swim well. But refuse the suggestion of getting back on the boat. I'd suggest that is a reasonable analogy x So, let's say you are all now adrift in the boat. As an intelligent passenger do you sit and sulk about the situation you find yourself in, doing nothing but berate the others. Or do you use your skill, experience and intellect to guide the boat to the best possible outcome for everyone in it?. Why are we adrift ? Did we go all Luddite in the engine because it was made in the EU ?
Now I don’t disagree IF we cannot reverse out the situation leavers would be cutting off their nose to just continue with vitriol. But if we are to all pull together then we need to also accept the challenges are of our own making. The “we won ergo I was right” attitude is as unhelpful as the “you’re racist idiots”.
The situation is of 'our' making. Not participating in the discussion seems akin to the opposition refusing to sit in Parliament. In any situation, I try to steer things to include as many aspects I think are important. Nobody is going to get an outcome that matches all their goals."Quite candidly that sounds like a fantastic reason and argument to stay in the Eu | |||
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"I don’t follow. The opposition critique the government and hold them to account. It is not their role to say, okay the public voted you guys in, do what you want. Or you want to dismantle the NHS, I disagree, but let me help you deal with all the people who can’t afford to go to the doctors. At least not until the NHS is destroyed. Their first position will be to fight against the position. " But we are mid way through leaving. There was also a gm where an anti-leave party could have built enough support to stop it. But that didn't happen. We are now in the negotaiation phase. So, in my way of thinking people should be pushing for the aspects they value most to be retained. | |||
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"I don’t follow. The opposition critique the government and hold them to account. It is not their role to say, okay the public voted you guys in, do what you want. Or you want to dismantle the NHS, I disagree, but let me help you deal with all the people who can’t afford to go to the doctors. At least not until the NHS is destroyed. Their first position will be to fight against the position. But we are mid way through leaving. There was also a gm where an anti-leave party could have built enough support to stop it. But that didn't happen. We are now in the negotaiation phase. So, in my way of thinking people should be pushing for the aspects they value most to be retained." Seriously you're not making sense ? I am pushing hard for what I want which is to pay 350 million a week and have a say in the rules and guide lines that will govern the products and services I will receive and produce in a tariff free trade with the rest of Europe I'm pushing very very hard for the ecj to be part of my judicial system What sorry you disagree ? What sorry you mean I can only push hard for things you agree with ? | |||
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"I don’t follow. The opposition critique the government and hold them to account. It is not their role to say, okay the public voted you guys in, do what you want. Or you want to dismantle the NHS, I disagree, but let me help you deal with all the people who can’t afford to go to the doctors. At least not until the NHS is destroyed. Their first position will be to fight against the position. But we are mid way through leaving. There was also a gm where an anti-leave party could have built enough support to stop it. But that didn't happen. We are now in the negotaiation phase. So, in my way of thinking people should be pushing for the aspects they value most to be retained." Unfortunately the GM isn’t a single issue vote. | |||
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"Why did they spend months putting bids together when theyve known they'll be out of the EU by then for over a year?
The following cities have two things in common. Given the context of the post, can you think what they are?
Reykjavik, Stavanger and Istanbul."Is Turkey not in Asia ?  | |||
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"I don’t follow. The opposition critique the government and hold them to account. It is not their role to say, okay the public voted you guys in, do what you want. Or you want to dismantle the NHS, I disagree, but let me help you deal with all the people who can’t afford to go to the doctors. At least not until the NHS is destroyed. Their first position will be to fight against the position. But we are mid way through leaving. There was also a gm where an anti-leave party could have built enough support to stop it. But that didn't happen. We are now in the negotaiation phase. So, in my way of thinking people should be pushing for the aspects they value most to be retained." Or perhaps Rather than the exit side arrogantly repeating Majority rules our 52 trounces your 48 so shut up and suffer what we do we have no interest in pacifying almost 30 million people Perhaps it would be pragmatic to acknowledge that remain was a significant minority and rather than as I suggested bullying , or as you put it politely suggesting that not complying is betrayal and not productive to the EXIT cause and for exit to work we need remain to bolster our position , even though remain told exit that it would not happen that way . So rather than bully remain to feel guilty that they don't support the exit process perhaps exit need to back down a little , give a little not tell the Eu they can fuck them selves , sorry I meant whistle . I'd love to say I could help or offer pragmatic solutions to ease the cluster fuck mess but I can't so my only other option is to baton down the hatches , protect my friends and family , and reap great amusement as the exit unfolds into a total farce Xxx | |||
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