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Does the Canada/US trade stand off have lessons for a No Deal Brexit?
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Trumps trade war with Canada has largely back fired.
While Canadian companies have lost some US customers theyve increased their business in places like China in the EU by taking business lost by American companies.
Canadian exports have hit an all time high this month. Farm and fishing is up 7.6%, energy exports up 34%, metal and minerals up 22.9%. Year over year exports are up 9.2% which means Trump has been the best thing to happen for Canadian trade in years.
A no deal Brexit will leave Britain in a similar situation as Trumps America, tariffs will suddenly increase driving up the cost of products with other countries like Canada and the EU ready to step in and take over that business.
The intransigence of Trump in trade with Canada is something we're seeing in the extremist Tories dealings with the EU and its going to lead to the same outcome. The EU isnt Mexico and isnt stuck with dealing with the UK. |
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"Trumps trade war with Canada has largely back fired.
While Canadian companies have lost some US customers theyve increased their business in places like China in the EU by taking business lost by American companies.
Canadian exports have hit an all time high this month. Farm and fishing is up 7.6%, energy exports up 34%, metal and minerals up 22.9%. Year over year exports are up 9.2% which means Trump has been the best thing to happen for Canadian trade in years.
A no deal Brexit will leave Britain in a similar situation as Trumps America, tariffs will suddenly increase driving up the cost of products with other countries like Canada and the EU ready to step in and take over that business.
The intransigence of Trump in trade with Canada is something we're seeing in the extremist Tories dealings with the EU and its going to lead to the same outcome. The EU isnt Mexico and isnt stuck with dealing with the UK."
First of all its a ridiculous comparison to compare US/Canada to UK/EU. The UK is not like Trumps America. We want to open up our market for free trade with the rest of the world outside of the protectionist EU.
You say "tariffs will suddenly increase driving up the cost of products with other countries like Canada", even though Canada has publicly stated it intends to do a full free trade deal with the UK as soon as brexit is complete.
Also once the UK is free of the protectionist EU external tariff barrier we will be free to lower tariffs with the rest of the world outside.
On your last point you say "The EU isn't Mexico and isn't stuck with dealing with the UK". Newsflash the UK isn't Mexico either and isn't stuck with dealing with the EU.
Also Trumps trade policy for the USA is a success story in that the US economy is doing very well, high GDP growth rates hitting 4.1% (it's highest rate since 2014). Consumer spending has grew by 4%, which is more than what was previously estimated. Non residential business investment has climbed by a 7.3% clip. The US dollar is looking very strong in international markets and US unemployment figures falling while US employment figures are increasing. |
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"We're doomed, Captain Manwaring, we're doomed!
 "
So you keep saying although the reality looks rather different. UK employment rates now at an all time high and unemployment at record lows. UK growth figures are now at 0.4% outperforming the Eurozone growth rate of 0.3%. |
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"Trumps trade war with Canada has largely back fired.
While Canadian companies have lost some US customers theyve increased their business in places like China in the EU by taking business lost by American companies.
Canadian exports have hit an all time high this month. Farm and fishing is up 7.6%, energy exports up 34%, metal and minerals up 22.9%. Year over year exports are up 9.2% which means Trump has been the best thing to happen for Canadian trade in years.
A no deal Brexit will leave Britain in a similar situation as Trumps America, tariffs will suddenly increase driving up the cost of products with other countries like Canada and the EU ready to step in and take over that business.
The intransigence of Trump in trade with Canada is something we're seeing in the extremist Tories dealings with the EU and its going to lead to the same outcome. The EU isnt Mexico and isnt stuck with dealing with the UK.
First of all its a ridiculous comparison to compare US/Canada to UK/EU. The UK is not like Trumps America. We want to open up our market for free trade with the rest of the world outside of the protectionist EU.
You say "tariffs will suddenly increase driving up the cost of products with other countries like Canada", even though Canada has publicly stated it intends to do a full free trade deal with the UK as soon as brexit is complete.
Also once the UK is free of the protectionist EU external tariff barrier we will be free to lower tariffs with the rest of the world outside.
On your last point you say "The EU isn't Mexico and isn't stuck with dealing with the UK". Newsflash the UK isn't Mexico either and isn't stuck with dealing with the EU.
Also Trumps trade policy for the USA is a success story in that the US economy is doing very well, high GDP growth rates hitting 4.1% (it's highest rate since 2014). Consumer spending has grew by 4%, which is more than what was previously estimated. Non residential business investment has climbed by a 7.3% clip. The US dollar is looking very strong in international markets and US unemployment figures falling while US employment figures are increasing. "
So a strong dollar is good, yet you brexiteers say a weak £ is good. So which is good, a strong or a weak currency? You can't have it both ways |
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"Trumps trade war with Canada has largely back fired.
While Canadian companies have lost some US customers theyve increased their business in places like China in the EU by taking business lost by American companies.
Canadian exports have hit an all time high this month. Farm and fishing is up 7.6%, energy exports up 34%, metal and minerals up 22.9%. Year over year exports are up 9.2% which means Trump has been the best thing to happen for Canadian trade in years.
A no deal Brexit will leave Britain in a similar situation as Trumps America, tariffs will suddenly increase driving up the cost of products with other countries like Canada and the EU ready to step in and take over that business.
The intransigence of Trump in trade with Canada is something we're seeing in the extremist Tories dealings with the EU and its going to lead to the same outcome. The EU isnt Mexico and isnt stuck with dealing with the UK.
First of all its a ridiculous comparison to compare US/Canada to UK/EU. The UK is not like Trumps America. We want to open up our market for free trade with the rest of the world outside of the protectionist EU.
You say "tariffs will suddenly increase driving up the cost of products with other countries like Canada", even though Canada has publicly stated it intends to do a full free trade deal with the UK as soon as brexit is complete.
Also once the UK is free of the protectionist EU external tariff barrier we will be free to lower tariffs with the rest of the world outside.
On your last point you say "The EU isn't Mexico and isn't stuck with dealing with the UK". Newsflash the UK isn't Mexico either and isn't stuck with dealing with the EU.
Also Trumps trade policy for the USA is a success story in that the US economy is doing very well, high GDP growth rates hitting 4.1% (it's highest rate since 2014). Consumer spending has grew by 4%, which is more than what was previously estimated. Non residential business investment has climbed by a 7.3% clip. The US dollar is looking very strong in international markets and US unemployment figures falling while US employment figures are increasing.
So a strong dollar is good, yet you brexiteers say a weak £ is good. So which is good, a strong or a weak currency? You can't have it both ways"
Both have their plus and minus points. A strong currency gives you good exchange rates and helps with imports. The flip side is a weak currency helps boost exports and also helps to boost the domestic tourism industry as tourists look to take advantage of the preferable exchange rate. We're now seeing this with Turkey since the Lira tanked the Turkish tourism industry is seeing a boost.
In the case of the UK the weak pound has also helped to boost the FTSE 100 to record highs and has broken the all time record high several times since the referendum in 2016. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Trumps trade war with Canada has largely back fired.
While Canadian companies have lost some US customers theyve increased their business in places like China in the EU by taking business lost by American companies.
Canadian exports have hit an all time high this month. Farm and fishing is up 7.6%, energy exports up 34%, metal and minerals up 22.9%. Year over year exports are up 9.2% which means Trump has been the best thing to happen for Canadian trade in years.
A no deal Brexit will leave Britain in a similar situation as Trumps America, tariffs will suddenly increase driving up the cost of products with other countries like Canada and the EU ready to step in and take over that business.
The intransigence of Trump in trade with Canada is something we're seeing in the extremist Tories dealings with the EU and its going to lead to the same outcome. The EU isnt Mexico and isnt stuck with dealing with the UK."
. It is difficult to see how a few little tweaks to duties will make much difference.
Luckily for the UK investors prefer solutions to problems and take a positive approach to life . The strong performance of the Stock market since Brexit clearly illustrates that we have little to worry about.
If the UK leave with no deal the biggest losers will be the EU and Ireland in particular.
The EU is a lot more dependent on us than we are on them.
No business wants to lose its biggest customer ..Loss of our contribution will hurt. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The stock market is not a great predictor of economic strength. It’s just a measure of confidence of investors that there will be other investors who will value the stocks more in the future .... before the GFC, there were very few predictions of doom. And those who did predict bad things were written off as doom merchants. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"
First of all its a ridiculous comparison to compare US/Canada to UK/EU. The UK is not like Trumps America. We want to open up our market for free trade with the rest of the world outside of the protectionist EU. "
Why do you keep repeating this ridiculous lie Centaur? The UK is keeping the EXACT same tariffs as the EU. It is also simultaneous pulling out of 50+ FTAs. It will take us decades to get to where we are today. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Trumps trade war with Canada has largely back fired.
While Canadian companies have lost some US customers theyve increased their business in places like China in the EU by taking business lost by American companies.
Canadian exports have hit an all time high this month. Farm and fishing is up 7.6%, energy exports up 34%, metal and minerals up 22.9%. Year over year exports are up 9.2% which means Trump has been the best thing to happen for Canadian trade in years.
A no deal Brexit will leave Britain in a similar situation as Trumps America, tariffs will suddenly increase driving up the cost of products with other countries like Canada and the EU ready to step in and take over that business.
The intransigence of Trump in trade with Canada is something we're seeing in the extremist Tories dealings with the EU and its going to lead to the same outcome. The EU isnt Mexico and isnt stuck with dealing with the UK.
First of all its a ridiculous comparison to compare US/Canada to UK/EU. The UK is not like Trumps America. We want to open up our market for free trade with the rest of the world outside of the protectionist EU.
You say "tariffs will suddenly increase driving up the cost of products with other countries like Canada", even though Canada has publicly stated it intends to do a full free trade deal with the UK as soon as brexit is complete.
Also once the UK is free of the protectionist EU external tariff barrier we will be free to lower tariffs with the rest of the world outside.
On your last point you say "The EU isn't Mexico and isn't stuck with dealing with the UK". Newsflash the UK isn't Mexico either and isn't stuck with dealing with the EU.
Also Trumps trade policy for the USA is a success story in that the US economy is doing very well, high GDP growth rates hitting 4.1% (it's highest rate since 2014). Consumer spending has grew by 4%, which is more than what was previously estimated. Non residential business investment has climbed by a 7.3% clip. The US dollar is looking very strong in international markets and US unemployment figures falling while US employment figures are increasing. "
GDP growth in the USA has followed the same trend as it has since 2012. So jas employment. Wages are barely rising despite full employment.
How much of the Trump tax cut has found its way into the real economy? How much pollution has found its way into the environment?
How high is US consumer debt?
Highest growth since 2014 implies it was higher in 2014 doesn't it? Who was President then? What were his economic policies?
Every country in the world will be delighted to do a free trade deal with the UK based on the UK accepting all of their goods based on their domestic standards. As that won't happen some negotiating will be necessary. As we are going to be a much smaller market than the EU our negotiating position will be weaker but we will be far more "flexible" in our ability to compromise.
What are the consequences to domestic companies of lowering our tariffs Centaur?
You do not understand economics. You continually demonstrate that. You just repeat what your chosen "news" sources tell you support your argument when they blatantly do not because you do not question either them or yourself. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Trumps trade war with Canada has largely back fired.
While Canadian companies have lost some US customers theyve increased their business in places like China in the EU by taking business lost by American companies.
Canadian exports have hit an all time high this month. Farm and fishing is up 7.6%, energy exports up 34%, metal and minerals up 22.9%. Year over year exports are up 9.2% which means Trump has been the best thing to happen for Canadian trade in years.
A no deal Brexit will leave Britain in a similar situation as Trumps America, tariffs will suddenly increase driving up the cost of products with other countries like Canada and the EU ready to step in and take over that business.
The intransigence of Trump in trade with Canada is something we're seeing in the extremist Tories dealings with the EU and its going to lead to the same outcome. The EU isnt Mexico and isnt stuck with dealing with the UK. . It is difficult to see how a few little tweaks to duties will make much difference.
Luckily for the UK investors prefer solutions to problems and take a positive approach to life . The strong performance of the Stock market since Brexit clearly illustrates that we have little to worry about.
If the UK leave with no deal the biggest losers will be the EU and Ireland in particular.
The EU is a lot more dependent on us than we are on them.
No business wants to lose its biggest customer ..Loss of our contribution will hurt. "
What is a share buy-back and how much has been spent on them in the past five years?
How long has this bull market run for compared to others in history?
If, as an extreme example trade between the EU and the UK stops, we lose 40% of our trade. No EU country loses more than 16%. However, every EU country can now replace all of that UK trade with goods and services from each other. What do we sell that is not available within the EU 27?
Think before repeating what you've read.
The reality is that a deal will be done on goods and produce. Free trade with EU rules.
Not services which are the majority of our economy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Trumps trade war with Canada has largely back fired.
While Canadian companies have lost some US customers theyve increased their business in places like China in the EU by taking business lost by American companies.
Canadian exports have hit an all time high this month. Farm and fishing is up 7.6%, energy exports up 34%, metal and minerals up 22.9%. Year over year exports are up 9.2% which means Trump has been the best thing to happen for Canadian trade in years.
A no deal Brexit will leave Britain in a similar situation as Trumps America, tariffs will suddenly increase driving up the cost of products with other countries like Canada and the EU ready to step in and take over that business.
The intransigence of Trump in trade with Canada is something we're seeing in the extremist Tories dealings with the EU and its going to lead to the same outcome. The EU isnt Mexico and isnt stuck with dealing with the UK. . It is difficult to see how a few little tweaks to duties will make much difference.
Luckily for the UK investors prefer solutions to problems and take a positive approach to life . The strong performance of the Stock market since Brexit clearly illustrates that we have little to worry about.
If the UK leave with no deal the biggest losers will be the EU and Ireland in particular.
The EU is a lot more dependent on us than we are on them.
No business wants to lose its biggest customer ..Loss of our contribution will hurt.
What is a share buy-back and how much has been spent on them in the past five years?
How long has this bull market run for compared to others in history?
If, as an extreme example trade between the EU and the UK stops, we lose 40% of our trade. No EU country loses more than 16%. However, every EU country can now replace all of that UK trade with goods and services from each other. What do we sell that is not available within the EU 27?
Think before repeating what you've read.
The reality is that a deal will be done on goods and produce. Free trade with EU rules.
Not services which are the majority of our economy."
I fail to see the relevant of either share buy backs or the length of a bull market. The key issue is how the FTSE has performed since Brexit was announced .
It has hit an all time high. If the doomsday scenarios predicted or loved by some posters on here were a possible reality the FTSE would have collapsed .
Luckily the merchants of doom and gloom have been proved wrong time and time again.
Even employment is at an all time high . Companies would hardly be taking people on if they were concerned about Brexit. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Trumps trade war with Canada has largely back fired.
While Canadian companies have lost some US customers theyve increased their business in places like China in the EU by taking business lost by American companies.
Canadian exports have hit an all time high this month. Farm and fishing is up 7.6%, energy exports up 34%, metal and minerals up 22.9%. Year over year exports are up 9.2% which means Trump has been the best thing to happen for Canadian trade in years.
A no deal Brexit will leave Britain in a similar situation as Trumps America, tariffs will suddenly increase driving up the cost of products with other countries like Canada and the EU ready to step in and take over that business.
The intransigence of Trump in trade with Canada is something we're seeing in the extremist Tories dealings with the EU and its going to lead to the same outcome. The EU isnt Mexico and isnt stuck with dealing with the UK. . It is difficult to see how a few little tweaks to duties will make much difference.
Luckily for the UK investors prefer solutions to problems and take a positive approach to life . The strong performance of the Stock market since Brexit clearly illustrates that we have little to worry about.
If the UK leave with no deal the biggest losers will be the EU and Ireland in particular.
The EU is a lot more dependent on us than we are on them.
No business wants to lose its biggest customer ..Loss of our contribution will hurt.
What is a share buy-back and how much has been spent on them in the past five years?
How long has this bull market run for compared to others in history?
If, as an extreme example trade between the EU and the UK stops, we lose 40% of our trade. No EU country loses more than 16%. However, every EU country can now replace all of that UK trade with goods and services from each other. What do we sell that is not available within the EU 27?
Think before repeating what you've read.
The reality is that a deal will be done on goods and produce. Free trade with EU rules.
Not services which are the majority of our economy. I fail to see the relevant of either share buy backs or the length of a bull market. The key issue is how the FTSE has performed since Brexit was announced .
It has hit an all time high. If the doomsday scenarios predicted or loved by some posters on here were a possible reality the FTSE would have collapsed .
Luckily the merchants of doom and gloom have been proved wrong time and time again.
Even employment is at an all time high . Companies would hardly be taking people on if they were concerned about Brexit. "
If you fail to see the relevance then there's not much of a conversation to be had.
Enjoy your fantasy world. It is interesting that in your new guise you have stopped quoting your "specialist" publications though  |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
If the UK leave with no deal the biggest losers will be the EU and Ireland in particular.
"
Good luck with that idea.
It seems to be a recurring theme of the Brexit fantasists - that they need us more than we need them.
Having shot our selves in one foot already, the British nationalists now point a gun at the other foot and warn the EU we'll fire if they don't give us a deal.
There is no obligation on the EU to give the UK anything. We chose to give up the benefits of membership.
|
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"
If the UK leave with no deal the biggest losers will be the EU and Ireland in particular.
Good luck with that idea.
It seems to be a recurring theme of the Brexit fantasists - that they need us more than we need them.
Having shot our selves in one foot already, the British nationalists now point a gun at the other foot and warn the EU we'll fire if they don't give us a deal.
There is no obligation on the EU to give the UK anything. We chose to give up the benefits of membership.
"
There are no benefits to membership of the EU. We pay around £9 billion per year membership fee and in return we get a trade deficit with the EU, unwanted uncontrolled mass immigration through EU free movement, the ECJ having supremacy over our own domestic law and courts, and our sovereignty continually being eroded. It's a shitty arrangement that we should never have gotten into in the first place and the sooner we extract ourselves from it the better. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"
First of all its a ridiculous comparison to compare US/Canada to UK/EU. The UK is not like Trumps America. We want to open up our market for free trade with the rest of the world outside of the protectionist EU.
Why do you keep repeating this ridiculous lie Centaur? The UK is keeping the EXACT same tariffs as the EU. It is also simultaneous pulling out of 50+ FTAs. It will take us decades to get to where we are today. "
Surprise surprise, yet again Centaur can't answer. |
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"
First of all its a ridiculous comparison to compare US/Canada to UK/EU. The UK is not like Trumps America. We want to open up our market for free trade with the rest of the world outside of the protectionist EU.
Why do you keep repeating this ridiculous lie Centaur? The UK is keeping the EXACT same tariffs as the EU. It is also simultaneous pulling out of 50+ FTAs. It will take us decades to get to where we are today.
Surprise surprise, yet again Centaur can't answer. "
Because I've already answered this inane point of yours multiple times before on other threads. We may be keeping the same tariff schedule as we leave the EU in March 2019, but as an independent, sovereign country free from the shackles of the EU after Brexit is completed we can lower tariffs in future if we desire to do so.
You can't do it as a member of the EU as the EU's external tariff barrier is set by Brussels. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"
First of all its a ridiculous comparison to compare US/Canada to UK/EU. The UK is not like Trumps America. We want to open up our market for free trade with the rest of the world outside of the protectionist EU.
Why do you keep repeating this ridiculous lie Centaur? The UK is keeping the EXACT same tariffs as the EU. It is also simultaneous pulling out of 50+ FTAs. It will take us decades to get to where we are today.
Surprise surprise, yet again Centaur can't answer.
Because I've already answered this inane point of yours multiple times before on other threads. We may be keeping the same tariff schedule as we leave the EU in March 2019, but as an independent, sovereign country free from the shackles of the EU after Brexit is completed we can lower tariffs in future if we desire to do so.
You can't do it as a member of the EU as the EU's external tariff barrier is set by Brussels. "
Do you honestly think that the UK is going to go through years of legal challenges to the schedule we are currently proposing, only to change it, and start again with fresh legal challenges? And then attempt again to get unanimous support from every single member of the WTO?
When exactly do you think we will change to the magic schedule you think we will get? And if a different schedule is better, why aren't we proposing that one?
If the EU is "protectionist", how would you describe Trump's economic policy? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
If the UK leave with no deal the biggest losers will be the EU and Ireland in particular.
Good luck with that idea.
It seems to be a recurring theme of the Brexit fantasists - that they need us more than we need them.
Having shot our selves in one foot already, the British nationalists now point a gun at the other foot and warn the EU we'll fire if they don't give us a deal.
There is no obligation on the EU to give the UK anything. We chose to give up the benefits of membership.
There are no benefits to membership of the EU. We pay around £9 billion per year membership fee and in return we get a trade deficit with the EU, unwanted uncontrolled mass immigration through EU free movement, the ECJ having supremacy over our own domestic law and courts, and our sovereignty continually being eroded. It's a shitty arrangement that we should never have gotten into in the first place and the sooner we extract ourselves from it the better. "
You are nothing if not entirely predictable Centaur
Unable to identify £9bn worth of joint regulation, research coordination, or over 50 free trade deals as part of a huge market that other countries will make compromises to gain access to.
Even when you finally looked up the ECJ for the specific thread you couldn't find any judgements really worth complaining about.
Still waiting to know if the UK Supreme Court has any jurisdiction whatsoever in a WTO dispute.
Immigration is the only card you can play or really understand. Just stick to that. |
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"
First of all its a ridiculous comparison to compare US/Canada to UK/EU. The UK is not like Trumps America. We want to open up our market for free trade with the rest of the world outside of the protectionist EU.
Why do you keep repeating this ridiculous lie Centaur? The UK is keeping the EXACT same tariffs as the EU. It is also simultaneous pulling out of 50+ FTAs. It will take us decades to get to where we are today.
Surprise surprise, yet again Centaur can't answer.
Because I've already answered this inane point of yours multiple times before on other threads. We may be keeping the same tariff schedule as we leave the EU in March 2019, but as an independent, sovereign country free from the shackles of the EU after Brexit is completed we can lower tariffs in future if we desire to do so.
You can't do it as a member of the EU as the EU's external tariff barrier is set by Brussels.
Do you honestly think that the UK is going to go through years of legal challenges to the schedule we are currently proposing, only to change it, and start again with fresh legal challenges? And then attempt again to get unanimous support from every single member of the WTO?
When exactly do you think we will change to the magic schedule you think we will get? And if a different schedule is better, why aren't we proposing that one?
If the EU is "protectionist", how would you describe Trump's economic policy? "
A top barrister has been reported in today's press that we can from a legal perspective change or lower our tariffs after Brexit (like I've been telling you all along).
Martin Howe QC, of Lawyers for Britain said the authors of Project Fear had assumed if we leave the EU with no deal we will have to Continue slapping tariffs, which the EU forces us to impose, on the rest of the world. Mr Howe said this was not true as the UK would be free to charge lower levels of tariffs or zero tariffs if we feel fit to do so.
In his report Mr Howe points out that European tariffs were set before the UK joined in 1973 and make food prices 17% higher than they would be outside of the EU. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
First of all its a ridiculous comparison to compare US/Canada to UK/EU. The UK is not like Trumps America. We want to open up our market for free trade with the rest of the world outside of the protectionist EU.
Why do you keep repeating this ridiculous lie Centaur? The UK is keeping the EXACT same tariffs as the EU. It is also simultaneous pulling out of 50+ FTAs. It will take us decades to get to where we are today.
Surprise surprise, yet again Centaur can't answer.
Because I've already answered this inane point of yours multiple times before on other threads. We may be keeping the same tariff schedule as we leave the EU in March 2019, but as an independent, sovereign country free from the shackles of the EU after Brexit is completed we can lower tariffs in future if we desire to do so.
You can't do it as a member of the EU as the EU's external tariff barrier is set by Brussels.
Do you honestly think that the UK is going to go through years of legal challenges to the schedule we are currently proposing, only to change it, and start again with fresh legal challenges? And then attempt again to get unanimous support from every single member of the WTO?
When exactly do you think we will change to the magic schedule you think we will get? And if a different schedule is better, why aren't we proposing that one?
If the EU is "protectionist", how would you describe Trump's economic policy?
A top barrister has been reported in today's press that we can from a legal perspective change or lower our tariffs after Brexit (like I've been telling you all along).
Martin Howe QC, of Lawyers for Britain said the authors of Project Fear had assumed if we leave the EU with no deal we will have to Continue slapping tariffs, which the EU forces us to impose, on the rest of the world. Mr Howe said this was not true as the UK would be free to charge lower levels of tariffs or zero tariffs if we feel fit to do so.
In his report Mr Howe points out that European tariffs were set before the UK joined in 1973 and make food prices 17% higher than they would be outside of the EU. "
So we aren't going to charge tariffs then? Has anyone told the WTO? We are swapping EU for WTO tariffs - if we want to exclude tariffs we need a free trade deal with every country in the World? You gonna be no 1 negotiator centaur? |
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"
First of all its a ridiculous comparison to compare US/Canada to UK/EU. The UK is not like Trumps America. We want to open up our market for free trade with the rest of the world outside of the protectionist EU.
Why do you keep repeating this ridiculous lie Centaur? The UK is keeping the EXACT same tariffs as the EU. It is also simultaneous pulling out of 50+ FTAs. It will take us decades to get to where we are today.
Surprise surprise, yet again Centaur can't answer.
Because I've already answered this inane point of yours multiple times before on other threads. We may be keeping the same tariff schedule as we leave the EU in March 2019, but as an independent, sovereign country free from the shackles of the EU after Brexit is completed we can lower tariffs in future if we desire to do so.
You can't do it as a member of the EU as the EU's external tariff barrier is set by Brussels.
Do you honestly think that the UK is going to go through years of legal challenges to the schedule we are currently proposing, only to change it, and start again with fresh legal challenges? And then attempt again to get unanimous support from every single member of the WTO?
When exactly do you think we will change to the magic schedule you think we will get? And if a different schedule is better, why aren't we proposing that one?
If the EU is "protectionist", how would you describe Trump's economic policy?
A top barrister has been reported in today's press that we can from a legal perspective change or lower our tariffs after Brexit (like I've been telling you all along).
Martin Howe QC, of Lawyers for Britain said the authors of Project Fear had assumed if we leave the EU with no deal we will have to Continue slapping tariffs, which the EU forces us to impose, on the rest of the world. Mr Howe said this was not true as the UK would be free to charge lower levels of tariffs or zero tariffs if we feel fit to do so.
In his report Mr Howe points out that European tariffs were set before the UK joined in 1973 and make food prices 17% higher than they would be outside of the EU.
So we aren't going to charge tariffs then? Has anyone told the WTO? We are swapping EU for WTO tariffs - if we want to exclude tariffs we need a free trade deal with every country in the World? You gonna be no 1 negotiator centaur?"
The point is we'll be free to do what we want to do and if we want to lower tariffs or remove them altogether we can legally do so. You can't remove the EU's external tariff barrier as a member of the EU because it is set by Brussels and was set before we joined in 1973.
As for your point about Free trade deals several countries have already publicly stated their intention to do free trade deals with the UK after Brexit. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
First of all its a ridiculous comparison to compare US/Canada to UK/EU. The UK is not like Trumps America. We want to open up our market for free trade with the rest of the world outside of the protectionist EU.
Why do you keep repeating this ridiculous lie Centaur? The UK is keeping the EXACT same tariffs as the EU. It is also simultaneous pulling out of 50+ FTAs. It will take us decades to get to where we are today.
Surprise surprise, yet again Centaur can't answer.
Because I've already answered this inane point of yours multiple times before on other threads. We may be keeping the same tariff schedule as we leave the EU in March 2019, but as an independent, sovereign country free from the shackles of the EU after Brexit is completed we can lower tariffs in future if we desire to do so.
You can't do it as a member of the EU as the EU's external tariff barrier is set by Brussels.
Do you honestly think that the UK is going to go through years of legal challenges to the schedule we are currently proposing, only to change it, and start again with fresh legal challenges? And then attempt again to get unanimous support from every single member of the WTO?
When exactly do you think we will change to the magic schedule you think we will get? And if a different schedule is better, why aren't we proposing that one?
If the EU is "protectionist", how would you describe Trump's economic policy?
A top barrister has been reported in today's press that we can from a legal perspective change or lower our tariffs after Brexit (like I've been telling you all along).
Martin Howe QC, of Lawyers for Britain said the authors of Project Fear had assumed if we leave the EU with no deal we will have to Continue slapping tariffs, which the EU forces us to impose, on the rest of the world. Mr Howe said this was not true as the UK would be free to charge lower levels of tariffs or zero tariffs if we feel fit to do so.
In his report Mr Howe points out that European tariffs were set before the UK joined in 1973 and make food prices 17% higher than they would be outside of the EU.
So we aren't going to charge tariffs then? Has anyone told the WTO? We are swapping EU for WTO tariffs - if we want to exclude tariffs we need a free trade deal with every country in the World? You gonna be no 1 negotiator centaur?
The point is we'll be free to do what we want to do and if we want to lower tariffs or remove them altogether we can legally do so. You can't remove the EU's external tariff barrier as a member of the EU because it is set by Brussels and was set before we joined in 1973.
As for your point about Free trade deals several countries have already publicly stated their intention to do free trade deals with the UK after Brexit. "
The point is that we could unilaterally remove all tariffs as Economists for Brexit want to do.
What would the consequences of that be Centaur?
Would we be able to or would every WTO member have to agree to that Centaur?
If there is a WTO dispute does the UK Supreme Court decide on the outcome Centaur?
Every country would be delighted to do a trade deal with us. Every country would be more delighted to do a trade deal with the EU. Every country would be delighted to do a trade deal with every other country.
Why has that not happened Centaur?
We have a trade surplus with the USA. Trump started a trade war with China because he thinks that's "unfair". If he does a trade deal with us will we retain a trade surplus with the USA Centaur?
Stick to immigration as your argument for Brexit. |
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"
If the UK leave with no deal the biggest losers will be the EU and Ireland in particular.
Good luck with that idea.
It seems to be a recurring theme of the Brexit fantasists - that they need us more than we need them.
Having shot our selves in one foot already, the British nationalists now point a gun at the other foot and warn the EU we'll fire if they don't give us a deal.
There is no obligation on the EU to give the UK anything. We chose to give up the benefits of membership.
"
brexit is no fantasy . the remain camp has been wrong about most of its predictions so far .keep them coming if you want .thats where the fantasy lies .i can't wait for next year |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
If the UK leave with no deal the biggest losers will be the EU and Ireland in particular.
Good luck with that idea.
It seems to be a recurring theme of the Brexit fantasists - that they need us more than we need them.
Having shot our selves in one foot already, the British nationalists now point a gun at the other foot and warn the EU we'll fire if they don't give us a deal.
There is no obligation on the EU to give the UK anything. We chose to give up the benefits of membership.
brexit is no fantasy . the remain camp has been wrong about most of its predictions so far .keep them coming if you want .thats where the fantasy lies .i can't wait for next year "
What have Leave been massively right about in their predictions so far?
Fantasy lies is an interesting turn if phrase for a Brexit supporter.
You're a little late to the game here, but there are a few current threads that should help you adjust.
Try searching for cognitive bias and see how you fare |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
If the UK leave with no deal the biggest losers will be the EU and Ireland in particular.
Good luck with that idea.
It seems to be a recurring theme of the Brexit fantasists - that they need us more than we need them.
Having shot our selves in one foot already, the British nationalists now point a gun at the other foot and warn the EU we'll fire if they don't give us a deal.
There is no obligation on the EU to give the UK anything. We chose to give up the benefits of membership.
There are no benefits to membership of the EU. We pay around £9 billion per year membership fee and in return we get a trade deficit with the EU, unwanted uncontrolled mass immigration through EU free movement, the ECJ having supremacy over our own domestic law and courts, and our sovereignty continually being eroded. It's a shitty arrangement that we should never have gotten into in the first place and the sooner we extract ourselves from it the better. "
Your income obviously does not depend on revenue from sales to the EU27.
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
The point is we'll be free to do what we want to do and if we want to lower tariffs or remove them altogether we can legally do so. You can't remove the EU's external tariff barrier as a member of the EU because it is set by Brussels and was set before we joined in 1973.
As for your point about Free trade deals several countries have already publicly stated their intention to do free trade deals with the UK after Brexit. "
Surely you only lower your own tariff barrier if the other side gives you something and more you want or need.
Otherwise you are shooting yourself in the foot again.
Trade is a two-way street.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
First of all its a ridiculous comparison to compare US/Canada to UK/EU. The UK is not like Trumps America. We want to open up our market for free trade with the rest of the world outside of the protectionist EU.
Why do you keep repeating this ridiculous lie Centaur? The UK is keeping the EXACT same tariffs as the EU. It is also simultaneous pulling out of 50+ FTAs. It will take us decades to get to where we are today.
Surprise surprise, yet again Centaur can't answer.
Because I've already answered this inane point of yours multiple times before on other threads. We may be keeping the same tariff schedule as we leave the EU in March 2019, but as an independent, sovereign country free from the shackles of the EU after Brexit is completed we can lower tariffs in future if we desire to do so.
You can't do it as a member of the EU as the EU's external tariff barrier is set by Brussels.
Do you honestly think that the UK is going to go through years of legal challenges to the schedule we are currently proposing, only to change it, and start again with fresh legal challenges? And then attempt again to get unanimous support from every single member of the WTO?
When exactly do you think we will change to the magic schedule you think we will get? And if a different schedule is better, why aren't we proposing that one?
If the EU is "protectionist", how would you describe Trump's economic policy?
A top barrister has been reported in today's press that we can from a legal perspective change or lower our tariffs after Brexit (like I've been telling you all along).
Martin Howe QC, of Lawyers for Britain said the authors of Project Fear had assumed if we leave the EU with no deal we will have to Continue slapping tariffs, which the EU forces us to impose, on the rest of the world. Mr Howe said this was not true as the UK would be free to charge lower levels of tariffs or zero tariffs if we feel fit to do so.
In his report Mr Howe points out that European tariffs were set before the UK joined in 1973 and make food prices 17% higher than they would be outside of the EU. "
Your 100% right the uk can open it's borders to trade and go to 0% tariffs on imports , that's not going to be a problem ,accept for the uk businesses that can't compete with tariff free imports they close and a few jobs will go,
Then look at uk exports , just because the uk decided to have 0 tariffs that doesn't mean countries the uk export won't charge tariffs on uk exports ,
What ever tariffs they have set in there wto schedule is the tariffs that will apply to uk goods,making uk exports more expensive,
Until the uk has trade deals implemented with countries it intends dealing with uk exports will be too expensive that's going to close uk export companies , and more people out of work
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
First of all its a ridiculous comparison to compare US/Canada to UK/EU. The UK is not like Trumps America. We want to open up our market for free trade with the rest of the world outside of the protectionist EU.
Why do you keep repeating this ridiculous lie Centaur? The UK is keeping the EXACT same tariffs as the EU. It is also simultaneous pulling out of 50+ FTAs. It will take us decades to get to where we are today.
Surprise surprise, yet again Centaur can't answer.
Because I've already answered this inane point of yours multiple times before on other threads. We may be keeping the same tariff schedule as we leave the EU in March 2019, but as an independent, sovereign country free from the shackles of the EU after Brexit is completed we can lower tariffs in future if we desire to do so.
You can't do it as a member of the EU as the EU's external tariff barrier is set by Brussels.
Do you honestly think that the UK is going to go through years of legal challenges to the schedule we are currently proposing, only to change it, and start again with fresh legal challenges? And then attempt again to get unanimous support from every single member of the WTO?
When exactly do you think we will change to the magic schedule you think we will get? And if a different schedule is better, why aren't we proposing that one?
If the EU is "protectionist", how would you describe Trump's economic policy?
A top barrister has been reported in today's press that we can from a legal perspective change or lower our tariffs after Brexit (like I've been telling you all along).
Martin Howe QC, of Lawyers for Britain said the authors of Project Fear had assumed if we leave the EU with no deal we will have to Continue slapping tariffs, which the EU forces us to impose, on the rest of the world. Mr Howe said this was not true as the UK would be free to charge lower levels of tariffs or zero tariffs if we feel fit to do so.
In his report Mr Howe points out that European tariffs were set before the UK joined in 1973 and make food prices 17% higher than they would be outside of the EU.
So we aren't going to charge tariffs then? Has anyone told the WTO? We are swapping EU for WTO tariffs - if we want to exclude tariffs we need a free trade deal with every country in the World? You gonna be no 1 negotiator centaur?
The point is we'll be free to do what we want to do and if we want to lower tariffs or remove them altogether we can legally do so. You can't remove the EU's external tariff barrier as a member of the EU because it is set by Brussels and was set before we joined in 1973.
As for your point about Free trade deals several countries have already publicly stated their intention to do free trade deals with the UK after Brexit. "
Answer the question please. As a member of the WTO you agree to their rules and tariffs you can't unilaterally pick and mix. I would have thought you would have researched that before commenting! The ONLY way is a free trade deal which overides WTO rules. Hence why WTO experts are condemning no deal senario! I bet your going to be niave and say "copy and paste" the EU deals - several countries have already said no to this - even your favourite "Trumpland"! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
First of all its a ridiculous comparison to compare US/Canada to UK/EU. The UK is not like Trumps America. We want to open up our market for free trade with the rest of the world outside of the protectionist EU.
Why do you keep repeating this ridiculous lie Centaur? The UK is keeping the EXACT same tariffs as the EU. It is also simultaneous pulling out of 50+ FTAs. It will take us decades to get to where we are today.
Surprise surprise, yet again Centaur can't answer.
Because I've already answered this inane point of yours multiple times before on other threads. We may be keeping the same tariff schedule as we leave the EU in March 2019, but as an independent, sovereign country free from the shackles of the EU after Brexit is completed we can lower tariffs in future if we desire to do so.
You can't do it as a member of the EU as the EU's external tariff barrier is set by Brussels.
Do you honestly think that the UK is going to go through years of legal challenges to the schedule we are currently proposing, only to change it, and start again with fresh legal challenges? And then attempt again to get unanimous support from every single member of the WTO?
When exactly do you think we will change to the magic schedule you think we will get? And if a different schedule is better, why aren't we proposing that one?
If the EU is "protectionist", how would you describe Trump's economic policy?
A top barrister has been reported in today's press that we can from a legal perspective change or lower our tariffs after Brexit (like I've been telling you all along).
Martin Howe QC, of Lawyers for Britain said the authors of Project Fear had assumed if we leave the EU with no deal we will have to Continue slapping tariffs, which the EU forces us to impose, on the rest of the world. Mr Howe said this was not true as the UK would be free to charge lower levels of tariffs or zero tariffs if we feel fit to do so.
In his report Mr Howe points out that European tariffs were set before the UK joined in 1973 and make food prices 17% higher than they would be outside of the EU.
Your 100% right the uk can open it's borders to trade and go to 0% tariffs on imports , that's not going to be a problem ,accept for the uk businesses that can't compete with tariff free imports they close and a few jobs will go,
Then look at uk exports , just because the uk decided to have 0 tariffs that doesn't mean countries the uk export won't charge tariffs on uk exports ,
What ever tariffs they have set in there wto schedule is the tariffs that will apply to uk goods,making uk exports more expensive,
Until the uk has trade deals implemented with countries it intends dealing with uk exports will be too expensive that's going to close uk export companies , and more people out of work
"
A few tweaks to duty rates are hardly going to drive any company out of business. The average on wto terms is very low. |
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"When it comes to trade deals, the UK will be punching with 10 per cent of what it punched with before.
I wonder when the penny will drop?"
We're 6th largest economy in the whole world. Using remainers own logic we'll have the upper hand in any trade deal with smaller economies than our own. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"When it comes to trade deals, the UK will be punching with 10 per cent of what it punched with before.
I wonder when the penny will drop?"
Luckily for the UK, the EU has a lot more to lose if satisfactory trade deals are not reached.
With unemployment at a record low and the stock exchange at an all time high we have little to worry about. |
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"
First of all its a ridiculous comparison to compare US/Canada to UK/EU. The UK is not like Trumps America. We want to open up our market for free trade with the rest of the world outside of the protectionist EU.
Why do you keep repeating this ridiculous lie Centaur? The UK is keeping the EXACT same tariffs as the EU. It is also simultaneous pulling out of 50+ FTAs. It will take us decades to get to where we are today.
Surprise surprise, yet again Centaur can't answer.
Because I've already answered this inane point of yours multiple times before on other threads. We may be keeping the same tariff schedule as we leave the EU in March 2019, but as an independent, sovereign country free from the shackles of the EU after Brexit is completed we can lower tariffs in future if we desire to do so.
You can't do it as a member of the EU as the EU's external tariff barrier is set by Brussels.
Do you honestly think that the UK is going to go through years of legal challenges to the schedule we are currently proposing, only to change it, and start again with fresh legal challenges? And then attempt again to get unanimous support from every single member of the WTO?
When exactly do you think we will change to the magic schedule you think we will get? And if a different schedule is better, why aren't we proposing that one?
If the EU is "protectionist", how would you describe Trump's economic policy?
A top barrister has been reported in today's press that we can from a legal perspective change or lower our tariffs after Brexit (like I've been telling you all along).
Martin Howe QC, of Lawyers for Britain said the authors of Project Fear had assumed if we leave the EU with no deal we will have to Continue slapping tariffs, which the EU forces us to impose, on the rest of the world. Mr Howe said this was not true as the UK would be free to charge lower levels of tariffs or zero tariffs if we feel fit to do so.
In his report Mr Howe points out that European tariffs were set before the UK joined in 1973 and make food prices 17% higher than they would be outside of the EU.
Your 100% right the uk can open it's borders to trade and go to 0% tariffs on imports , that's not going to be a problem ,accept for the uk businesses that can't compete with tariff free imports they close and a few jobs will go,
Then look at uk exports , just because the uk decided to have 0 tariffs that doesn't mean countries the uk export won't charge tariffs on uk exports ,
What ever tariffs they have set in there wto schedule is the tariffs that will apply to uk goods,making uk exports more expensive,
Until the uk has trade deals implemented with countries it intends dealing with uk exports will be too expensive that's going to close uk export companies , and more people out of work
"
Sounds like the same scaremongering put out by remainers before the referendum in 2016 that 500,000 jobs would be lost in the event of a vote to Leave. We now know this never happened, in fact quite the opposite has happened to what remain predicted and hundreds of thousands of new jobs have been added to the UK economy with employment levels now at record highs. You also seem to be forgetting that the drop in the value of the pound after the referendum will effectively cancel out any potential tariff increase on UK exports after Brexit. |
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It's gonna be no deal. The eu27 have been instructed to disagree with anything we propose - Contrary to EU business who are telling them they NEED the UK.
Which leaves us free to make our own deals, benefiting Britain for the first time in decades.
Better Britain is coming |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's gonna be no deal. The eu27 have been instructed to disagree with anything we propose - Contrary to EU business who are telling them they NEED the UK.
Which leaves us free to make our own deals, benefiting Britain for the first time in decades.
Better Britain is coming "
Ha ha ha no deal is the nightmare scenario our goverment rightly shits it's pants over .Brexiters seem to want to cut our collective throats to save face.
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Just means we're free to make deals without the horrendous red tape the EU impose.
There'll be a short time of disruption, lots of deals first few days.
Let's just hope all businesses pass on the savings to the public.
I import a lot from outside the EU and am really looking forward to saving the 30% they add on to most of it. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
First of all its a ridiculous comparison to compare US/Canada to UK/EU. The UK is not like Trumps America. We want to open up our market for free trade with the rest of the world outside of the protectionist EU.
Why do you keep repeating this ridiculous lie Centaur? The UK is keeping the EXACT same tariffs as the EU. It is also simultaneous pulling out of 50+ FTAs. It will take us decades to get to where we are today.
Surprise surprise, yet again Centaur can't answer.
Because I've already answered this inane point of yours multiple times before on other threads. We may be keeping the same tariff schedule as we leave the EU in March 2019, but as an independent, sovereign country free from the shackles of the EU after Brexit is completed we can lower tariffs in future if we desire to do so.
You can't do it as a member of the EU as the EU's external tariff barrier is set by Brussels. "
its not an "inane" point as you put it.... because what the UK have proposed to the WTO is that they keep the exact same controls as the EU...
great for the EU as all the EU protections they would have in place would remain... i.e spanish oranges....
not so great for the UK as it doesn't actually protect UK produce or and goods or services....
also if you think it is annoying that 27 other countries have a say in what the EU does.... you are going to hate the WTO, because they have 168 countries/regions and if any ONE of those object to the new schedule.... none of it goes thru.....
thats the reason why it took russia 19 years to get their schedule approveds!!!!
now... i know that dr liam fox likes to laude over the fact he has trade deals in the pipeline... two of those he says are with australia and new zealand......
austalia and new zealand have both said the proposed deal they have coming with the EU takes priority (something about larger markets more relevances, blah blah blah)...... the other kick in the teeth is that BOTH of them have already gone to the WTO and lodged objection to the UK proposal schedule...
you know that thing you like to quote "nothing is agreed till everything is agreed"... well that mantra is going to come back and hit you squarely is the balls......
like i said, i don't think you truely know what a "no deal brexit" means come march 29th at 11pm... and that is the most scary thing of all..... the blind leading the fanatics!!
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
First of all its a ridiculous comparison to compare US/Canada to UK/EU. The UK is not like Trumps America. We want to open up our market for free trade with the rest of the world outside of the protectionist EU.
Why do you keep repeating this ridiculous lie Centaur? The UK is keeping the EXACT same tariffs as the EU. It is also simultaneous pulling out of 50+ FTAs. It will take us decades to get to where we are today.
Surprise surprise, yet again Centaur can't answer.
Because I've already answered this inane point of yours multiple times before on other threads. We may be keeping the same tariff schedule as we leave the EU in March 2019, but as an independent, sovereign country free from the shackles of the EU after Brexit is completed we can lower tariffs in future if we desire to do so.
You can't do it as a member of the EU as the EU's external tariff barrier is set by Brussels.
its not an "inane" point as you put it.... because what the UK have proposed to the WTO is that they keep the exact same controls as the EU...
great for the EU as all the EU protections they would have in place would remain... i.e spanish oranges....
not so great for the UK as it doesn't actually protect UK produce or and goods or services....
also if you think it is annoying that 27 other countries have a say in what the EU does.... you are going to hate the WTO, because they have 168 countries/regions and if any ONE of those object to the new schedule.... none of it goes thru.....
thats the reason why it took russia 19 years to get their schedule approveds!!!!
now... i know that dr liam fox likes to laude over the fact he has trade deals in the pipeline... two of those he says are with australia and new zealand......
austalia and new zealand have both said the proposed deal they have coming with the EU takes priority (something about larger markets more relevances, blah blah blah)...... the other kick in the teeth is that BOTH of them have already gone to the WTO and lodged objection to the UK proposal schedule...
you know that thing you like to quote "nothing is agreed till everything is agreed"... well that mantra is going to come back and hit you squarely is the balls......
like i said, i don't think you truely know what a "no deal brexit" means come march 29th at 11pm... and that is the most scary thing of all..... the blind leading the fanatics!!
"
No point. Remember the cognitive bias thread that I keep banging on about?
I had a manager like this once. He had absolutely the worst feedback from his team in the company. I was a contractor so didn't get to contribute.
He used to tell people to do a certain thing because that's what his boss had told him to say. You would then, patiently, explain to him why this couldn't or shouldn't be done. He would understand. He was perfectly pleasant and technically competent. However, you could then genuinely see him
rebooting. His eyes would glaze over slightly and he would then repeat what he'd said before.
It was weird, but this is what I see with both Brexit and support for Trump. Information and logic are irrelevant, the argument just defaults to a specific phrase like the sheep in Animal Farm.
Just an observation. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"It's gonna be no deal. The eu27 have been instructed to disagree with anything we propose - Contrary to EU business who are telling them they NEED the UK.
Which leaves us free to make our own deals, benefiting Britain for the first time in decades.
Better Britain is coming "
There will be a deal on goods and produce.
EU rules. Tariffs unchanged. Some of the external EU deals may also roll over on goods and produce.
Nothing for services.
What EU businesses have said that they NEED a deal? What UK businesses and groups have?
What is the default WTO tariff on what you import? If you are alright does that mean that everyone will be alright? Do you care? |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
Well the first lot of technical reports for preparations for leaving the Eu without a deal is due out on Thursday (despite the objections of Rees mogg and his lackies)
I just wonder that if hearing the shitshow it would be from their own side and their own negotiating team will finally get the penny to drop, rather than hearing it from the other side and call it scaremongering....
Or do you this they will still dismiss their own reports as project fear?
Also how close to the deadlines does project fear not become project fear anymore ... and becomes project oh shit???
Because at some point they are going to have to plan....
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
First of all its a ridiculous comparison to compare US/Canada to UK/EU. The UK is not like Trumps America. We want to open up our market for free trade with the rest of the world outside of the protectionist EU.
Why do you keep repeating this ridiculous lie Centaur? The UK is keeping the EXACT same tariffs as the EU. It is also simultaneous pulling out of 50+ FTAs. It will take us decades to get to where we are today.
Surprise surprise, yet again Centaur can't answer.
Because I've already answered this inane point of yours multiple times before on other threads. We may be keeping the same tariff schedule as we leave the EU in March 2019, but as an independent, sovereign country free from the shackles of the EU after Brexit is completed we can lower tariffs in future if we desire to do so.
You can't do it as a member of the EU as the EU's external tariff barrier is set by Brussels.
Do you honestly think that the UK is going to go through years of legal challenges to the schedule we are currently proposing, only to change it, and start again with fresh legal challenges? And then attempt again to get unanimous support from every single member of the WTO?
When exactly do you think we will change to the magic schedule you think we will get? And if a different schedule is better, why aren't we proposing that one?
If the EU is "protectionist", how would you describe Trump's economic policy?
A top barrister has been reported in today's press that we can from a legal perspective change or lower our tariffs after Brexit (like I've been telling you all along).
Martin Howe QC, of Lawyers for Britain said the authors of Project Fear had assumed if we leave the EU with no deal we will have to Continue slapping tariffs, which the EU forces us to impose, on the rest of the world. Mr Howe said this was not true as the UK would be free to charge lower levels of tariffs or zero tariffs if we feel fit to do so.
In his report Mr Howe points out that European tariffs were set before the UK joined in 1973 and make food prices 17% higher than they would be outside of the EU.
Your 100% right the uk can open it's borders to trade and go to 0% tariffs on imports , that's not going to be a problem ,accept for the uk businesses that can't compete with tariff free imports they close and a few jobs will go,
Then look at uk exports , just because the uk decided to have 0 tariffs that doesn't mean countries the uk export won't charge tariffs on uk exports ,
What ever tariffs they have set in there wto schedule is the tariffs that will apply to uk goods,making uk exports more expensive,
Until the uk has trade deals implemented with countries it intends dealing with uk exports will be too expensive that's going to close uk export companies , and more people out of work
A few tweaks to duty rates are hardly going to drive any company out of business. The average on wto terms is very low. "
Really?
How much more will it cost to assemble a car or aeroplane? On average. What's the industry margin?
How about selling a car? On average.
How much more will UK grown fruits or vegetables cost without free movement or the goodwill of pickers or the strength of the currency? On average.
How about a Korean made TV? On average.
Just wondering if you knew what you were talking about or not. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
First of all its a ridiculous comparison to compare US/Canada to UK/EU. The UK is not like Trumps America. We want to open up our market for free trade with the rest of the world outside of the protectionist EU.
Why do you keep repeating this ridiculous lie Centaur? The UK is keeping the EXACT same tariffs as the EU. It is also simultaneous pulling out of 50+ FTAs. It will take us decades to get to where we are today.
Surprise surprise, yet again Centaur can't answer.
Because I've already answered this inane point of yours multiple times before on other threads. We may be keeping the same tariff schedule as we leave the EU in March 2019, but as an independent, sovereign country free from the shackles of the EU after Brexit is completed we can lower tariffs in future if we desire to do so.
You can't do it as a member of the EU as the EU's external tariff barrier is set by Brussels.
Do you honestly think that the UK is going to go through years of legal challenges to the schedule we are currently proposing, only to change it, and start again with fresh legal challenges? And then attempt again to get unanimous support from every single member of the WTO?
When exactly do you think we will change to the magic schedule you think we will get? And if a different schedule is better, why aren't we proposing that one?
If the EU is "protectionist", how would you describe Trump's economic policy?
A top barrister has been reported in today's press that we can from a legal perspective change or lower our tariffs after Brexit (like I've been telling you all along).
Martin Howe QC, of Lawyers for Britain said the authors of Project Fear had assumed if we leave the EU with no deal we will have to Continue slapping tariffs, which the EU forces us to impose, on the rest of the world. Mr Howe said this was not true as the UK would be free to charge lower levels of tariffs or zero tariffs if we feel fit to do so.
In his report Mr Howe points out that European tariffs were set before the UK joined in 1973 and make food prices 17% higher than they would be outside of the EU.
Your 100% right the uk can open it's borders to trade and go to 0% tariffs on imports , that's not going to be a problem ,accept for the uk businesses that can't compete with tariff free imports they close and a few jobs will go,
Then look at uk exports , just because the uk decided to have 0 tariffs that doesn't mean countries the uk export won't charge tariffs on uk exports ,
What ever tariffs they have set in there wto schedule is the tariffs that will apply to uk goods,making uk exports more expensive,
Until the uk has trade deals implemented with countries it intends dealing with uk exports will be too expensive that's going to close uk export companies , and more people out of work
A few tweaks to duty rates are hardly going to drive any company out of business. The average on wto terms is very low. "
15% Is a tweak ?
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
First of all its a ridiculous comparison to compare US/Canada to UK/EU. The UK is not like Trumps America. We want to open up our market for free trade with the rest of the world outside of the protectionist EU.
Why do you keep repeating this ridiculous lie Centaur? The UK is keeping the EXACT same tariffs as the EU. It is also simultaneous pulling out of 50+ FTAs. It will take us decades to get to where we are today.
Surprise surprise, yet again Centaur can't answer.
Because I've already answered this inane point of yours multiple times before on other threads. We may be keeping the same tariff schedule as we leave the EU in March 2019, but as an independent, sovereign country free from the shackles of the EU after Brexit is completed we can lower tariffs in future if we desire to do so.
You can't do it as a member of the EU as the EU's external tariff barrier is set by Brussels.
Do you honestly think that the UK is going to go through years of legal challenges to the schedule we are currently proposing, only to change it, and start again with fresh legal challenges? And then attempt again to get unanimous support from every single member of the WTO?
When exactly do you think we will change to the magic schedule you think we will get? And if a different schedule is better, why aren't we proposing that one?
If the EU is "protectionist", how would you describe Trump's economic policy?
A top barrister has been reported in today's press that we can from a legal perspective change or lower our tariffs after Brexit (like I've been telling you all along).
Martin Howe QC, of Lawyers for Britain said the authors of Project Fear had assumed if we leave the EU with no deal we will have to Continue slapping tariffs, which the EU forces us to impose, on the rest of the world. Mr Howe said this was not true as the UK would be free to charge lower levels of tariffs or zero tariffs if we feel fit to do so.
In his report Mr Howe points out that European tariffs were set before the UK joined in 1973 and make food prices 17% higher than they would be outside of the EU.
Your 100% right the uk can open it's borders to trade and go to 0% tariffs on imports , that's not going to be a problem ,accept for the uk businesses that can't compete with tariff free imports they close and a few jobs will go,
Then look at uk exports , just because the uk decided to have 0 tariffs that doesn't mean countries the uk export won't charge tariffs on uk exports ,
What ever tariffs they have set in there wto schedule is the tariffs that will apply to uk goods,making uk exports more expensive,
Until the uk has trade deals implemented with countries it intends dealing with uk exports will be too expensive that's going to close uk export companies , and more people out of work
Sounds like the same scaremongering put out by remainers before the referendum in 2016 that 500,000 jobs would be lost in the event of a vote to Leave. We now know this never happened, in fact quite the opposite has happened to what remain predicted and hundreds of thousands of new jobs have been added to the UK economy with employment levels now at record highs. You also seem to be forgetting that the drop in the value of the pound after the referendum will effectively cancel out any potential tariff increase on UK exports after Brexit. "
As you always skip the hard stuff I'll just write thus again
"The point is that we could unilaterally remove all tariffs as Economists for Brexit want to do.
What would the consequences of that be Centaur?
Would we be able to or would every WTO member have to agree to that Centaur?
If there is a WTO dispute does the UK Supreme Court decide on the outcome Centaur?
Every country would be delighted to do a trade deal with us. Every country would be more delighted to do a trade deal with the EU. Every country would be delighted to do a trade deal with every other country.
Why has that not happened Centaur?
We have a trade surplus with the USA. Trump started a trade war with China because he thinks that's "unfair". If he does a trade deal with us will we retain a trade surplus with the USA Centaur?
Stick to immigration as your argument for Brexit." |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
First of all its a ridiculous comparison to compare US/Canada to UK/EU. The UK is not like Trumps America. We want to open up our market for free trade with the rest of the world outside of the protectionist EU.
Why do you keep repeating this ridiculous lie Centaur? The UK is keeping the EXACT same tariffs as the EU. It is also simultaneous pulling out of 50+ FTAs. It will take us decades to get to where we are today.
Surprise surprise, yet again Centaur can't answer.
Because I've already answered this inane point of yours multiple times before on other threads. We may be keeping the same tariff schedule as we leave the EU in March 2019, but as an independent, sovereign country free from the shackles of the EU after Brexit is completed we can lower tariffs in future if we desire to do so.
You can't do it as a member of the EU as the EU's external tariff barrier is set by Brussels.
Do you honestly think that the UK is going to go through years of legal challenges to the schedule we are currently proposing, only to change it, and start again with fresh legal challenges? And then attempt again to get unanimous support from every single member of the WTO?
When exactly do you think we will change to the magic schedule you think we will get? And if a different schedule is better, why aren't we proposing that one?
If the EU is "protectionist", how would you describe Trump's economic policy?
A top barrister has been reported in today's press that we can from a legal perspective change or lower our tariffs after Brexit (like I've been telling you all along).
Martin Howe QC, of Lawyers for Britain said the authors of Project Fear had assumed if we leave the EU with no deal we will have to Continue slapping tariffs, which the EU forces us to impose, on the rest of the world. Mr Howe said this was not true as the UK would be free to charge lower levels of tariffs or zero tariffs if we feel fit to do so.
In his report Mr Howe points out that European tariffs were set before the UK joined in 1973 and make food prices 17% higher than they would be outside of the EU.
Your 100% right the uk can open it's borders to trade and go to 0% tariffs on imports , that's not going to be a problem ,accept for the uk businesses that can't compete with tariff free imports they close and a few jobs will go,
Then look at uk exports , just because the uk decided to have 0 tariffs that doesn't mean countries the uk export won't charge tariffs on uk exports ,
What ever tariffs they have set in there wto schedule is the tariffs that will apply to uk goods,making uk exports more expensive,
Until the uk has trade deals implemented with countries it intends dealing with uk exports will be too expensive that's going to close uk export companies , and more people out of work
Sounds like the same scaremongering put out by remainers before the referendum in 2016 that 500,000 jobs would be lost in the event of a vote to Leave. We now know this never happened, in fact quite the opposite has happened to what remain predicted and hundreds of thousands of new jobs have been added to the UK economy with employment levels now at record highs. You also seem to be forgetting that the drop in the value of the pound after the referendum will effectively cancel out any potential tariff increase on UK exports after Brexit. "
Just to address this directly;
How much did the UK treasury spend directly after the Brexit vote?
Was that for fun or was there a reason?
How many jobs were being added to the UK economy before the vote? Is the rate higher, lower or the same? What are the jobs? Permanent or insecure? Do you know?
How has UK GDP growth changed relative to the other G7 countries since the referendum?
How many more jobs would there have been?
How have wages grown relative to inflation?
How much debt are people in now compared to before the referendum? Is more debt good?
The drop in the value of our currency mean that the cost of imports have gone up and will rise further with tariff increases. Yes or no?
The cost of exports have fallen. Has output gone up or have companies just increased their margins?
Is business investment higher or lower than the forecast before the referendum?
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"When it comes to trade deals, the UK will be punching with 10 per cent of what it punched with before.
I wonder when the penny will drop? Luckily for the UK, the EU has a lot more to lose if satisfactory trade deals are not reached.
With unemployment at a record low and the stock exchange at an all time high we have little to worry about. "
Really?
If we stop buying or selling to EU countries, they can buy or sell from each other. What have they got to lose exactly?
How much has the value of our stock market risen compared to the rest of the developed world?
Do bull markets continue forever? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"When it comes to trade deals, the UK will be punching with 10 per cent of what it punched with before.
I wonder when the penny will drop?
We're 6th largest economy in the whole world. Using remainers own logic we'll have the upper hand in any trade deal with smaller economies than our own. "
With what other economies ??
Name them ?? |
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"When it comes to trade deals, the UK will be punching with 10 per cent of what it punched with before.
I wonder when the penny will drop?
We're 6th largest economy in the whole world. Using remainers own logic we'll have the upper hand in any trade deal with smaller economies than our own.
With what other economies ??
Name them ?? "
Fabio already named 2 in an earlier post. Australia and New Zealand. International trade secretary Liam Fox has a list of over 20 countries who want free trade deals with the UK after Brexit. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"When it comes to trade deals, the UK will be punching with 10 per cent of what it punched with before.
I wonder when the penny will drop?
We're 6th largest economy in the whole world. Using remainers own logic we'll have the upper hand in any trade deal with smaller economies than our own.
With what other economies ??
Name them ??
Fabio already named 2 in an earlier post. Australia and New Zealand. International trade secretary Liam Fox has a list of over 20 countries who want free trade deals with the UK after Brexit. "
They're not new the uk have trade deal's there already through the eu ,
Think about it the biggest exports from the uk are machinery ,cars ,
Why will Australia import a car from the uk that it can import cheaper from Japan ,like take a look at a map.. Japan is half the distance , |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"When it comes to trade deals, the UK will be punching with 10 per cent of what it punched with before.
I wonder when the penny will drop?
We're 6th largest economy in the whole world. Using remainers own logic we'll have the upper hand in any trade deal with smaller economies than our own.
With what other economies ??
Name them ??
Fabio already named 2 in an earlier post. Australia and New Zealand. International trade secretary Liam Fox has a list of over 20 countries who want free trade deals with the UK after Brexit. "
Actually there are only 4 deals if you look at the government website.. the central/west Africa bloc, the USA, Australia and New Zealand... but as I said both Australia and New Zealand have already put down objections to the UK proposed WTO schedule.....
Also one other thing... you say we can do deals with smaller countries, cool! But for example if the UK did a deal with every African country... the total gdp of those country’s would still be less than half of France alone...
So again if you are trying to make this an economic argument then you will fail miserably |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
" Luckily for the UK, the EU has a lot more to lose if satisfactory trade deals are not reached.
With unemployment at a record low and the stock exchange at an all time high we have little to worry about. "
About 45 per cent of exports from the UK go to the EU27. About 8 per cent of exports from the EU27 go to the UK.
If trade is in jeopardy, I know which figure I'd rather take a hit from.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" We're now seeing this with Turkey since the Lira tanked the Turkish tourism industry is seeing a boost.
"
Great, with this success story, they can now join the EU and prop it up from imploding. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
Centaur;
The point is that we could unilaterally remove all tariffs as Economists for Brexit want to do.
What would the consequences of that be Centaur?
Would we be able to or would every WTO member have to agree to that Centaur?
If there is a WTO dispute does the UK Supreme Court decide on the outcome Centaur?
Every country would be delighted to do a trade deal with us. Every country would be more delighted to do a trade deal with the EU. Every country would be delighted to do a trade deal with every other country.
Why has that not happened Centaur?
We have a trade surplus with the USA. Trump started a trade war with China because he thinks that's "unfair". If he does a trade deal with us will we retain a trade surplus with the USA Centaur? |
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"Centaur;
The point is that we could unilaterally remove all tariffs as Economists for Brexit want to do.
What would the consequences of that be Centaur?
Would we be able to or would every WTO member have to agree to that Centaur?
If there is a WTO dispute does the UK Supreme Court decide on the outcome Centaur?
Every country would be delighted to do a trade deal with us. Every country would be more delighted to do a trade deal with the EU. Every country would be delighted to do a trade deal with every other country.
Why has that not happened Centaur?
We have a trade surplus with the USA. Trump started a trade war with China because he thinks that's "unfair". If he does a trade deal with us will we retain a trade surplus with the USA Centaur?"
So if as you openly admit it's possible for the UK to have a trade surplus with the USA without any kind of trade deal between the UK and the USA, logically then it's also possible for the UK to develop a trade Surplus with the EU, without having any kind of deal in place between the UK and the EU.
As Mr Howe QC, a top barrister and lawyer who I already quoted earlier in the thread said it's perfectly legal and possible for the UK to lower or remove it's tariffs after brexit when we are free of the EU. Are you saying Mr Howe QC a top lawyer and barrister in these matters is wrong? Are you saying you don't believe in experts?
If there is a WTO legal dispute does the ECJ decide on the outcome?
Why doesn't the UK or the EU have trade deals with all countries? Well the UK doesn't because we're currently members of the EU and we're forbidden from doing our own deals as a member, the EU decides our tariff schedule and our trade policy, it's pretty obvious that the UK has lost it's sovereignty when we don't have control over these things.
The EU is notoriously slow at doing trade deals, as it's current 28 members squabble amongst each other for what they want out of it. In the end it doesn't 100% benefit any one member as ultimately it's one big compromise as member states have to take into account the specific needs of other states.
The UK can do deals much more quickly on our own and be more nimble and flexible to changing surcumstances in negotiating new deals without consultation with other partners. We can focus the new deals 100% specific to our own needs without compromise or taking into account other countries needs like we've had to in the EU for the last 40 years. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Centaur;
The point is that we could unilaterally remove all tariffs as Economists for Brexit want to do.
What would the consequences of that be Centaur?
Would we be able to or would every WTO member have to agree to that Centaur?
If there is a WTO dispute does the UK Supreme Court decide on the outcome Centaur?
Every country would be delighted to do a trade deal with us. Every country would be more delighted to do a trade deal with the EU. Every country would be delighted to do a trade deal with every other country.
Why has that not happened Centaur?
We have a trade surplus with the USA. Trump started a trade war with China because he thinks that's "unfair". If he does a trade deal with us will we retain a trade surplus with the USA Centaur?
So if as you openly admit it's possible for the UK to have a trade surplus with the USA without any kind of trade deal between the UK and the USA, logically then it's also possible for the UK to develop a trade Surplus with the EU, without having any kind of deal in place between the UK and the EU.
As Mr Howe QC, a top barrister and lawyer who I already quoted earlier in the thread said it's perfectly legal and possible for the UK to lower or remove it's tariffs after brexit when we are free of the EU. Are you saying Mr Howe QC a top lawyer and barrister in these matters is wrong? Are you saying you don't believe in experts?
If there is a WTO legal dispute does the ECJ decide on the outcome?
Why doesn't the UK or the EU have trade deals with all countries? Well the UK doesn't because we're currently members of the EU and we're forbidden from doing our own deals as a member, the EU decides our tariff schedule and our trade policy, it's pretty obvious that the UK has lost it's sovereignty when we don't have control over these things.
The EU is notoriously slow at doing trade deals, as it's current 28 members squabble amongst each other for what they want out of it. In the end it doesn't 100% benefit any one member as ultimately it's one big compromise as member states have to take into account the specific needs of other states.
The UK can do deals much more quickly on our own and be more nimble and flexible to changing surcumstances in negotiating new deals without consultation with other partners. We can focus the new deals 100% specific to our own needs without compromise or taking into account other countries needs like we've had to in the EU for the last 40 years. "
Well we will soon find out. For example who do we want a trade deal with - who are the top ten countries?
We are trying to copy and paste the schedule which we have under EU membership with the WTO - but ALL 160 countries have to agree this - do you know when Dr Fox first started the process?
Look forward to your response. |
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"Centaur;
The point is that we could unilaterally remove all tariffs as Economists for Brexit want to do.
What would the consequences of that be Centaur?
Would we be able to or would every WTO member have to agree to that Centaur?
If there is a WTO dispute does the UK Supreme Court decide on the outcome Centaur?
Every country would be delighted to do a trade deal with us. Every country would be more delighted to do a trade deal with the EU. Every country would be delighted to do a trade deal with every other country.
Why has that not happened Centaur?
We have a trade surplus with the USA. Trump started a trade war with China because he thinks that's "unfair". If he does a trade deal with us will we retain a trade surplus with the USA Centaur?
So if as you openly admit it's possible for the UK to have a trade surplus with the USA without any kind of trade deal between the UK and the USA, logically then it's also possible for the UK to develop a trade Surplus with the EU, without having any kind of deal in place between the UK and the EU.
As Mr Howe QC, a top barrister and lawyer who I already quoted earlier in the thread said it's perfectly legal and possible for the UK to lower or remove it's tariffs after brexit when we are free of the EU. Are you saying Mr Howe QC a top lawyer and barrister in these matters is wrong? Are you saying you don't believe in experts?
If there is a WTO legal dispute does the ECJ decide on the outcome?
Why doesn't the UK or the EU have trade deals with all countries? Well the UK doesn't because we're currently members of the EU and we're forbidden from doing our own deals as a member, the EU decides our tariff schedule and our trade policy, it's pretty obvious that the UK has lost it's sovereignty when we don't have control over these things.
The EU is notoriously slow at doing trade deals, as it's current 28 members squabble amongst each other for what they want out of it. In the end it doesn't 100% benefit any one member as ultimately it's one big compromise as member states have to take into account the specific needs of other states.
The UK can do deals much more quickly on our own and be more nimble and flexible to changing surcumstances in negotiating new deals without consultation with other partners. We can focus the new deals 100% specific to our own needs without compromise or taking into account other countries needs like we've had to in the EU for the last 40 years. "
Fucks sake, some people need to put their finger in the fan before they realise 'yep, it does hurt after all', there's just no reasoning with them. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Centaur;
The point is that we could unilaterally remove all tariffs as Economists for Brexit want to do.
What would the consequences of that be Centaur?
Would we be able to or would every WTO member have to agree to that Centaur?
If there is a WTO dispute does the UK Supreme Court decide on the outcome Centaur?
Every country would be delighted to do a trade deal with us. Every country would be more delighted to do a trade deal with the EU. Every country would be delighted to do a trade deal with every other country.
Why has that not happened Centaur?
We have a trade surplus with the USA. Trump started a trade war with China because he thinks that's "unfair". If he does a trade deal with us will we retain a trade surplus with the USA Centaur?
So if as you openly admit it's possible for the UK to have a trade surplus with the USA without any kind of trade deal between the UK and the USA, logically then it's also possible for the UK to develop a trade Surplus with the EU, without having any kind of deal in place between the UK and the EU.
As Mr Howe QC, a top barrister and lawyer who I already quoted earlier in the thread said it's perfectly legal and possible for the UK to lower or remove it's tariffs after brexit when we are free of the EU. Are you saying Mr Howe QC a top lawyer and barrister in these matters is wrong? Are you saying you don't believe in experts?
If there is a WTO legal dispute does the ECJ decide on the outcome?
Why doesn't the UK or the EU have trade deals with all countries? Well the UK doesn't because we're currently members of the EU and we're forbidden from doing our own deals as a member, the EU decides our tariff schedule and our trade policy, it's pretty obvious that the UK has lost it's sovereignty when we don't have control over these things.
The EU is notoriously slow at doing trade deals, as it's current 28 members squabble amongst each other for what they want out of it. In the end it doesn't 100% benefit any one member as ultimately it's one big compromise as member states have to take into account the specific needs of other states.
The UK can do deals much more quickly on our own and be more nimble and flexible to changing surcumstances in negotiating new deals without consultation with other partners. We can focus the new deals 100% specific to our own needs without compromise or taking into account other countries needs like we've had to in the EU for the last 40 years. "
Logically then, we could do all the trade we want with any country as part of the EU. As Germany does.
Diverging standards and increased tariffs will not help create a trade surplus with the EU.
That was not the question though. Based on his attitude to trade will Trump feel that a UK surplus should remain after a trade deal?
It is "possible and legal". What are the circumstances necessary for that to happen and what will the consequences be for UK firms?
If their is an EU dispute the ECJ adjudicates and has sovereignty over the UK Supreme Court.
If their is a WTO dispute who adjudicates and do they have sovereignty over the UK Supreme Court?
To join the WTO, how many countries have to agree our schedule? Is it more than 27? Which countries have already raised objections?
There are many countries that are not part of trading blocks. How come they have not been "nimble" and "flexible" and closed trade deals with every other country in the same position? |
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