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Did class miss the diversity boat?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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JC has raised a very interesting point and asked BBC to publish the background of its staff and journalists as only 9% of the BBC presenters are from working class background & C4 has a PHD is failing these criterias. So do you agree with JC? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Part of the issue is how they employ or at least used to. They didn’t widely advertise the open positions so the only way to find out was word of mouth, in days gone by that was through who you know. If not many were from working class backgrounds then it would remain so. |
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By *uciyassMan
over a year ago
sheffield |
Besides Discounting the ineffably repetitive homophobic barbs that I receive most days, Twitter trolls' most common gripe against me appears to be that I am 'posh.' Contrary to their unshakeable view, I was not born into the upstairs world I was in fact born under the stairs of a large affordable supermarket where my first sound was clean up on isle 2. It never made a difference to my class however. I am me if you don’t like it. f off
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If we are going to have diversity quotas, we should have class quotas.
Ideally though positions should be transparently advertised, so people from all backgrounds can compete for the position.
If there is a genuine public demand to see more working class writers at the BBC, maybe they should have a degree apprenticeship scheme with targeted towards working class communities.
But generally if you want to help the working classes the priority should be in reducing health care and educational inequality, by raising their resources and opportunities up. |
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"JC has raised a very interesting point and asked BBC to publish the background of its staff and journalists as only 9% of the BBC presenters are from working class background & C4 has a PHD is failing these criterias. So do you agree with JC? "
How do other broadcasters fair I wonder? |
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"JC has raised a very interesting point and asked BBC to publish the background of its staff and journalists as only 9% of the BBC presenters are from working class background & C4 has a PHD is failing these criterias. So do you agree with JC? "
With Brexit going on and a whole host of other very important issues like how to fund the NHS and other public services, is diversity in the BBC something that Corbyn sees as a priority? Corbyn belongs in the loony bin, I'm working class, was born into a working class family and was raised on a council estate, I couldn't give a flying fuck about who the BBC employ or don't employ. Is this crap what champagne socialists talk about over dinner parties in Islington? 
No wonder the Labour party has lost its way. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"JC has raised a very interesting point and asked BBC to publish the background of its staff and journalists as only 9% of the BBC presenters are from working class background & C4 has a PHD is failing these criterias. So do you agree with JC?
With Brexit going on and a whole host of other very important issues like how to fund the NHS and other public services, is diversity in the BBC something that Corbyn sees as a priority? Corbyn belongs in the loony bin, I'm working class, was born into a working class family and was raised on a council estate, I couldn't give a flying fuck about who the BBC employ or don't employ. Is this crap what champagne socialists talk about over dinner parties in Islington?
No wonder the Labour party has lost its way. "
 tho I’m never sure what class working class boy comes good is now put in. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Class isn't about how you talk, or who your parents are, or what they did.
It's about your position is society relative to the model of production in society. You either belong to the bourgeoisie (or middle class) or the proletariat (working class) with a couple of other minor class distinctions too (i.e. petit bourgeoisie).
Other distinctions, such as those used in the U.S. only serve to confuse us of the real class distinctions in society. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Class isn't about how you talk, or who your parents are, or what they did.
It's about your position is society relative to the model of production in society. You either belong to the bourgeoisie (or middle class) or the proletariat (working class) with a couple of other minor class distinctions too (i.e. petit bourgeoisie).
Other distinctions, such as those used in the U.S. only serve to confuse us of the real class distinctions in society."
So where would that put BBC presenters? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I doubt we could get everyone to agree on what class is today. Is it what you do? What your parents did? "
Just watch the sketch with Ronnie Corbett, Ronnie Barker and an other (can't remember his name) but funny.  |
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"I doubt we could get everyone to agree on what class is today. Is it what you do? What your parents did?
Just watch the sketch with Ronnie Corbett, Ronnie Barker and an other (can't remember his name) but funny. "
John Cleese. |
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The Russel Group of universities will always take the potential cream of young academic minds and there is a pecking order within the Russel Group with Oxbridge at the top. These universities only have 2 tools to at their disposal make their choices by, examination results and how a potential undergraduate preforms during interviews.
Fact is, like it or not, public school education is superior to the state system and better prepares candidates for the university selection process. This then leads on to the graduate recruitment process where those from Russel Group university's are headhunted by organisations like the BBC. This may not be fair, but life is not fair and I for one would never restrict a parents ability to invest in their children's education. Nor would I restrict university's or employers from recruiting the best talent they can attract.
Rather than complaining that too many posh boys and girls get into Oxbridge maybe it would be better to improve the state education system to give more students from the state system an opportunity to get into the top university's.
Just one of my stupid ideas... |
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"JC has raised a very interesting point and asked BBC to publish the background of its staff and journalists as only 9% of the BBC presenters are from working class background & C4 has a PHD is failing these criterias. So do you agree with JC? "
Socio-economic status is already a n important part of diversity and given that the BBC receives so much funding from the license fee I agree that the organisation should be representative of the population. |
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"JC has raised a very interesting point and asked BBC to publish the background of its staff and journalists as only 9% of the BBC presenters are from working class background & C4 has a PHD is failing these criterias. So do you agree with JC?
With Brexit going on and a whole host of other very important issues like how to fund the NHS and other public services, is diversity in the BBC something that Corbyn sees as a priority? Corbyn belongs in the loony bin, I'm working class, was born into a working class family and was raised on a council estate, I couldn't give a flying fuck about who the BBC employ or don't employ. Is this crap what champagne socialists talk about over dinner parties in Islington?
No wonder the Labour party has lost its way. "
You see, this shows just how badly you misunderstand the importance of diversity. What you dismiss as the talk of the silly PC brigade is actually about making systems and organisations reflective of, and therefore more relevant to, the citizens or customers they serve. And this isn't just public sector orgs, or "socialist" charities. Businesses understand that it ultimately helps their bottom line.
And given how influential the BBC is in terms of its scale and reach including more voices from different parts of society could have a huge impact on how funding for the NHS and other services is viewed, valued and ultimately allocated.
Aren't you always complaining about bias in the BBC? Well guess what, JC is suggesting changes that might make you give a flying fuck.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I had a conversation about equal opportunities at work. Of having this quota. I disagree with it. Quota forces people to hire people because they are diverse. I believe in creating opportunities. For government jobs they anonamose your name, gender, nationality and education institutions. It puts everyone at an equal level field.
Although it is great the inequality happens way before you apply for the job. You need equal opportunity in education, safety, training etc. Then you can truly provide equality to all society. |
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"JC has raised a very interesting point and asked BBC to publish the background of its staff and journalists as only 9% of the BBC presenters are from working class background & C4 has a PHD is failing these criterias. So do you agree with JC?
With Brexit going on and a whole host of other very important issues like how to fund the NHS and other public services, is diversity in the BBC something that Corbyn sees as a priority? Corbyn belongs in the loony bin, I'm working class, was born into a working class family and was raised on a council estate, I couldn't give a flying fuck about who the BBC employ or don't employ. Is this crap what champagne socialists talk about over dinner parties in Islington?
No wonder the Labour party has lost its way. "
Well said. |
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"Class isn't about how you talk, or who your parents are, or what they did.
It's about your position is society relative to the model of production in society. You either belong to the bourgeoisie (or middle class) or the proletariat (working class) with a couple of other minor class distinctions too (i.e. petit bourgeoisie).
Other distinctions, such as those used in the U.S. only serve to confuse us of the real class distinctions in society."
Bullshit. Class has nothing to do with your position in society relative to the model of production in society.
It's about whether you know how to eat soup, how to hold a knife and fork properly and whether you balance your peas on the back of your fork, turn your fork upsidedown to scoop your peas or have mussy peas. Until you understand this you'll never even begin to solve the class divide in Britain.
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"The Russel Group of universities will always take the potential cream of young academic minds and there is a pecking order within the Russel Group with Oxbridge at the top. These universities only have 2 tools to at their disposal make their choices by, examination results and how a potential undergraduate preforms during interviews.
Fact is, like it or not, public school education is superior to the state system and better prepares candidates for the university selection process. This then leads on to the graduate recruitment process where those from Russel Group university's are headhunted by organisations like the BBC. This may not be fair, but life is not fair and I for one would never restrict a parents ability to invest in their children's education. Nor would I restrict university's or employers from recruiting the best talent they can attract.
Rather than complaining that too many posh boys and girls get into Oxbridge maybe it would be better to improve the state education system to give more students from the state system an opportunity to get into the top university's.
Just one of my stupid ideas..."
No it's not. IMHO you have quite a few good ideas and some totally shit ones. This is definitely is one of your good ones. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The Russel Group of universities will always take the potential cream of young academic minds and there is a pecking order within the Russel Group with Oxbridge at the top. These universities only have 2 tools to at their disposal make their choices by, examination results and how a potential undergraduate preforms during interviews.
Fact is, like it or not, public school education is superior to the state system and better prepares candidates for the university selection process. This then leads on to the graduate recruitment process where those from Russel Group university's are headhunted by organisations like the BBC. This may not be fair, but life is not fair and I for one would never restrict a parents ability to invest in their children's education. Nor would I restrict university's or employers from recruiting the best talent they can attract.
Rather than complaining that too many posh boys and girls get into Oxbridge maybe it would be better to improve the state education system to give more students from the state system an opportunity to get into the top university's.
Just one of my stupid ideas..."
I disagree that public school education is superior to that in the state sector. It is certainly funded better and class sizes are lower, but often advances in pedagogy, new techniques etc are slow to reach the private sector schools.
What they are is a tool by which those with money assure that their offspring can gain all the advantage that their wealth and position can. Together with the way the GCSE and A Level exams are worded and examined, plus entrance interviews etc for Russell Group universities, the system is stacked against working class kids.
The research shows that it is primarily the social background of the child which determines how well they will do. This is because the system is rigged to ensure that the rich stay rich and the poor know their place.
I don't think the answer is quotas, whether at the BBC or in elite universities, but to dismantle the tools that are used to rig the system. The one thing that would get around this inequality that we see, would be to abolish private education, close all public schools.
In Finland they have no public schools, all state education, one of the most equal societies and are always near or at the top of international education league tables. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The Russel Group of universities will always take the potential cream of young academic minds and there is a pecking order within the Russel Group with Oxbridge at the top. These universities only have 2 tools to at their disposal make their choices by, examination results and how a potential undergraduate preforms during interviews.
Fact is, like it or not, public school education is superior to the state system and better prepares candidates for the university selection process. This then leads on to the graduate recruitment process where those from Russel Group university's are headhunted by organisations like the BBC. This may not be fair, but life is not fair and I for one would never restrict a parents ability to invest in their children's education. Nor would I restrict university's or employers from recruiting the best talent they can attract.
Rather than complaining that too many posh boys and girls get into Oxbridge maybe it would be better to improve the state education system to give more students from the state system an opportunity to get into the top university's.
Just one of my stupid ideas..."
Preparation. Expectation. Personal attention. Opportunity to find your talent.
I moved from state to public school education.
That's the difference I saw.
It's not just academic teaching. It's the opportunity to try everything from sports (plural), to music to drama and the confidence gained from that.
It's not as if everyone grasps those opportunities, but they should at least be available to everyone.
If we really want a meritocracy then the state school system should be so good that nobody would want to pay.
If you watch young kids, all they want to do is please the adults around them. This process starts really early and the closing of sure start centres was the most short-sighted thing ever done.
Universities and employers should pick the best candidates, but they all need the opportunity to get to that point.
That said, their is prejudice in the interview process. Race, class, sex, age.
I don't think that quotas help, but tracking your recruitment pattern tells you if you have a problem. |
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"The Russel Group of universities will always take the potential cream of young academic minds and there is a pecking order within the Russel Group with Oxbridge at the top. These universities only have 2 tools to at their disposal make their choices by, examination results and how a potential undergraduate preforms during interviews.
Fact is, like it or not, public school education is superior to the state system and better prepares candidates for the university selection process. This then leads on to the graduate recruitment process where those from Russel Group university's are headhunted by organisations like the BBC. This may not be fair, but life is not fair and I for one would never restrict a parents ability to invest in their children's education. Nor would I restrict university's or employers from recruiting the best talent they can attract.
Rather than complaining that too many posh boys and girls get into Oxbridge maybe it would be better to improve the state education system to give more students from the state system an opportunity to get into the top university's.
Just one of my stupid ideas...
Preparation. Expectation. Personal attention. Opportunity to find your talent.
I moved from state to public school education.
That's the difference I saw.
It's not just academic teaching. It's the opportunity to try everything from sports (plural), to music to drama and the confidence gained from that.
It's not as if everyone grasps those opportunities, but they should at least be available to everyone.
If we really want a meritocracy then the state school system should be so good that nobody would want to pay.
If you watch young kids, all they want to do is please the adults around them. This process starts really early and the closing of sure start centres was the most short-sighted thing ever done.
Universities and employers should pick the best candidates, but they all need the opportunity to get to that point.
That said, their is prejudice in the interview process. Race, class, sex, age.
I don't think that quotas help, but tracking your recruitment pattern tells you if you have a problem."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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That said, their is prejudice in the interview process. Race, class, sex, age.
I don't think that quotas help, but tracking your recruitment pattern tells you if you have a problem."
It helps to show if there is a problem. It may not be your problem.
If an engineering firm has an unbalanced split it may be not their preocess but a lack of balance in CVs driven by a lack of balance of engineering grads driven by a lack of maths emphasis for girls at primary school.
Or their lack of Cvs may be from using “masculine”’words which put off women (apparently this is true) even if they try and make the process fair.
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
That said, their is prejudice in the interview process. Race, class, sex, age.
I don't think that quotas help, but tracking your recruitment pattern tells you if you have a problem.
It helps to show if there is a problem. It may not be your problem.
If an engineering firm has an unbalanced split it may be not their preocess but a lack of balance in CVs driven by a lack of balance of engineering grads driven by a lack of maths emphasis for girls at primary school.
Or their lack of Cvs may be from using “masculine”’words which put off women (apparently this is true) even if they try and make the process fair.
"
Well, yes, but you need a way of raising the flag. To be able to compare your company and industry with others.
If you identify a problem you can try to fix it (if you want to!).
Apparently raising your head and looking around your place of work isn't enough  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I agree. Although raising your head isn’t enough imo. Lack of diversification is more than race and sex and age.
Can you identify class through looking up? Parents ? Sexuality ?
If diversity is done properly it needs to be done intentionally. Otherwise it’s just pandering to a statistic in a headline. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
One of the things I love about Bristol is its diversity.
91 languages spoken here apparently.
I think I have been snagged by every ethnicity and accent it's possible to imagine - a tour of the world without leaving home.
Yet the local Bristol TV all seems to be fronted by white, middle class kids.
It's not representative of its audience, either. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"One of the things I love about Bristol is its diversity.
91 languages spoken here apparently.
I think I have been snagged by every ethnicity and accent it's possible to imagine - a tour of the world without leaving home.
Yet the local Bristol TV all seems to be fronted by white, middle class kids.
It's not representative of its audience, either."
91 languages?
No wonder were fucked |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If your looking to be shagged by every diverse cock going then Bristol seems to the place to be, however the rest of the country (96.8%) aren't as keen as taking foreign cocks so that might seem a sticking point on that argument.
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"JC has raised a very interesting point and asked BBC to publish the background of its staff and journalists as only 9% of the BBC presenters are from working class background & C4 has a PHD is failing these criterias. So do you agree with JC?
With Brexit going on and a whole host of other very important issues like how to fund the NHS and other public services, is diversity in the BBC something that Corbyn sees as a priority? Corbyn belongs in the loony bin, I'm working class, was born into a working class family and was raised on a council estate, I couldn't give a flying fuck about who the BBC employ or don't employ. Is this crap what champagne socialists talk about over dinner parties in Islington?
No wonder the Labour party has lost its way. "
Great post |
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