FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > World debt = Imminent recession.
World debt = Imminent recession.
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
Is it not a strange phenomenon that most of the so called democratic western world is up to its eyeballs in debt? I’ve heard hundreds of billions of British pounds, and trillions of US dollars. Amounts that nobody has ever actually seen, just numbers on computer screens. But surely these amounts are insurmountable, how then will they ever be payed, and to whom do we owe them?
There are no concrete answers to any of those questions, except that our democracies are wide open to corruption and have been for many years. The so called “credit crunch” and the banking crisis were caused by the greed of people who had been entrusted with the purse strings of our nations, and who spirited away as much of our money as was possible, to goodness knows where. Yet even those who were caught were not made to pay the money they took back. Some were actually given generous retirement payoffs.
So I ask, has capitalism, democracy, and liberalism actually achieved anything except huge debt and poverty? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Is it not a strange phenomenon that most of the so called democratic western world is up to its eyeballs in debt? I’ve heard hundreds of billions of British pounds, and trillions of US dollars. Amounts that nobody has ever actually seen, just numbers on computer screens. But surely these amounts are insurmountable, how then will they ever be payed, and to whom do we owe them?
There are no concrete answers to any of those questions, except that our democracies are wide open to corruption and have been for many years. The so called “credit crunch” and the banking crisis were caused by the greed of people who had been entrusted with the purse strings of our nations, and who spirited away as much of our money as was possible, to goodness knows where. Yet even those who were caught were not made to pay the money they took back. Some were actually given generous retirement payoffs.
So I ask, has capitalism, democracy, and liberalism actually achieved anything except huge debt and poverty?"
I know 'liberal is a swear word to you, and you hate those 'libtards'. But I don't see what liberalism has to do with your point.
I think you point is very valid, just would argue that it is not a left/right liberal/conservative type issue. Many would argue that left-wing are more interested in fairer distribution of wealth than the right-wing.
But yes, we are heading to a big problem. I mean right now the US is experiencing it's worst December drop in the Dow Jones since 1930 or something and the worst week since the 2008 crisis. The Nasdaq is also had it's biggest drop since 2008 too. The Asian markets have also just had a drop in response worried that the US is going to have a big problem come the New Year.
And as you say, all that debt... where does it come from? This is the reason why Bitcoin was started in 2008 in response to the global financial crash and the desire to create a form of electronic cash that cannot be so easily manipulated. It has not lived up to that goal, but that is a different story.
-Matt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I doubt if there is enough actual money in the world to pay the worlds dept  "
Fractal reserving says there isn’t. We’re all relying on debt not being called at the same time. Governments are safe from this as they issue bonds with fixed terms. Non government institutions are less safe. Hence the GFC being driven by private debt going bad. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Capitalism, a style of rigged and managed neo-liberalism, that supports the people to enrich their masters. All whilst destroying the planet. The debt is foisted on the masses, alongside the risks and pains. As well as the illusions of them having much liberty. Notwithstanding the fripperies of having some new shiny playthings, people are frog-marching themselves in to enslavement, with a poisonous future but merrily thinking the likes of a debt-fuelling Brexit will bring them ecstasy, rather than pushing themselves forwards as cannon fodder. You almost would struggle to make it up |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Approx 3 per cent of money actually exists.
The rest is debt.
All on tick from the banks in some shape or form.
It costs us close on £200bn a year.
It's how capitalism works.
Banks invent money at the flick of a switch, and then you and I pay for the privilege of using it.
Unless you got a big stash under your bed.
In which case you are fucked in other ways.
Que Sera Sera |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Liquidity is important so a more balanced view is required.
The Hammurabi code (eye for an eye) is needed at the top of the banking food chain and more should be allowed to fail - survival of the fittest not the most corrupt or connected.
Most people are indeed debt slaves but that doesn't absolve them of personal responsibility in the matter
Again there's a human competence heirarchy at play and you can chose to be a sucker or not. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Is it not a strange phenomenon that most of the so called democratic western world is up to its eyeballs in debt? I’ve heard hundreds of billions of British pounds, and trillions of US dollars. Amounts that nobody has ever actually seen, just numbers on computer screens. But surely these amounts are insurmountable, how then will they ever be payed, and to whom do we owe them?"
Governments do not need to have so much debt - they can choose to balance the books.
The last Labour Govt under the Blair/Brown PM/Chancellor ticket actually had the country running a surplus. The financial crash of 2007/2008 changed all that with the decision to bail out the banks.
The current debt is still growing since 2007 because none of the subsequent Governments have had the moral courage to make an election promise to do what was needed - raise taxes. Raising taxes and reasonable measures of austerity would have worked far better than the vicious austerity alone that we have seen.
The answer may not fit in with your outlook on the world but the economy works better when the majority of people have disposable income to spend in the local economy. When only the rich get richer they buy super yachts and flats in Monaco with their spare cash. Ordinary people may take an extra holiday or two, but in the main they will spend their spare cash locally and thereby drive the local economy.
The many, not the few have to see their place in the world improved for the nations debt to be tackled. To do this the entire tax regime in this country has to change. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it not a strange phenomenon that most of the so called democratic western world is up to its eyeballs in debt? I’ve heard hundreds of billions of British pounds, and trillions of US dollars. Amounts that nobody has ever actually seen, just numbers on computer screens. But surely these amounts are insurmountable, how then will they ever be payed, and to whom do we owe them?
Governments do not need to have so much debt - they can choose to balance the books.
The last Labour Govt under the Blair/Brown PM/Chancellor ticket actually had the country running a surplus. The financial crash of 2007/2008 changed all that with the decision to bail out the banks.
The current debt is still growing since 2007 because none of the subsequent Governments have had the moral courage to make an election promise to do what was needed - raise taxes. Raising taxes and reasonable measures of austerity would have worked far better than the vicious austerity alone that we have seen.
The answer may not fit in with your outlook on the world but the economy works better when the majority of people have disposable income to spend in the local economy. When only the rich get richer they buy super yachts and flats in Monaco with their spare cash. Ordinary people may take an extra holiday or two, but in the main they will spend their spare cash locally and thereby drive the local economy.
The many, not the few have to see their place in the world improved for the nations debt to be tackled. To do this the entire tax regime in this country has to change."
Its old fashioned in some people’s eyes but more tax and fairer distribution of benefits is good for the population as a whole and with the state of world finances is probably the only safe path to take as otherwise we are left with war or financial collapse and the breakdown of society as the alternative possibilities and dont even get me started on religious or racial haters. The super rich are living to their own agenda and for every bill gates who does enormous amounts for charity (recycling his profits) there are many more who ruthlessly take advantage of us all.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Is it not a strange phenomenon that most of the so called democratic western world is up to its eyeballs in debt? I’ve heard hundreds of billions of British pounds, and trillions of US dollars. Amounts that nobody has ever actually seen, just numbers on computer screens. But surely these amounts are insurmountable, how then will they ever be payed, and to whom do we owe them?
Governments do not need to have so much debt - they can choose to balance the books.
The last Labour Govt under the Blair/Brown PM/Chancellor ticket actually had the country running a surplus. The financial crash of 2007/2008 changed all that with the decision to bail out the banks.
The current debt is still growing since 2007 because none of the subsequent Governments have had the moral courage to make an election promise to do what was needed - raise taxes. Raising taxes and reasonable measures of austerity would have worked far better than the vicious austerity alone that we have seen.
The answer may not fit in with your outlook on the world but the economy works better when the majority of people have disposable income to spend in the local economy. When only the rich get richer they buy super yachts and flats in Monaco with their spare cash. Ordinary people may take an extra holiday or two, but in the main they will spend their spare cash locally and thereby drive the local economy.
The many, not the few have to see their place in the world improved for the nations debt to be tackled. To do this the entire tax regime in this country has to change.
Its old fashioned in some people’s eyes but more tax and fairer distribution of benefits is good for the population as a whole and with the state of world finances is probably the only safe path to take as otherwise we are left with war or financial collapse and the breakdown of society as the alternative possibilities and dont even get me started on religious or racial haters. The super rich are living to their own agenda and for every bill gates who does enormous amounts for charity (recycling his profits) there are many more who ruthlessly take advantage of us all. "
The thing that gets me about all of this is that the drivers of an extreme Brexit also push the idea of the U.K. becoming an even lower taxed regime to retain a competitive edge against the 27 EU countries. This will harm, not help the opportunities for ordinary people to get back to the situation whereby having an ordinary job means having disposable income. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it not a strange phenomenon that most of the so called democratic western world is up to its eyeballs in debt? I’ve heard hundreds of billions of British pounds, and trillions of US dollars. Amounts that nobody has ever actually seen, just numbers on computer screens. But surely these amounts are insurmountable, how then will they ever be payed, and to whom do we owe them?
Governments do not need to have so much debt - they can choose to balance the books.
The last Labour Govt under the Blair/Brown PM/Chancellor ticket actually had the country running a surplus. The financial crash of 2007/2008 changed all that with the decision to bail out the banks.
The current debt is still growing since 2007 because none of the subsequent Governments have had the moral courage to make an election promise to do what was needed - raise taxes. Raising taxes and reasonable measures of austerity would have worked far better than the vicious austerity alone that we have seen.
The answer may not fit in with your outlook on the world but the economy works better when the majority of people have disposable income to spend in the local economy. When only the rich get richer they buy super yachts and flats in Monaco with their spare cash. Ordinary people may take an extra holiday or two, but in the main they will spend their spare cash locally and thereby drive the local economy.
The many, not the few have to see their place in the world improved for the nations debt to be tackled. To do this the entire tax regime in this country has to change.
Its old fashioned in some people’s eyes but more tax and fairer distribution of benefits is good for the population as a whole and with the state of world finances is probably the only safe path to take as otherwise we are left with war or financial collapse and the breakdown of society as the alternative possibilities and dont even get me started on religious or racial haters. The super rich are living to their own agenda and for every bill gates who does enormous amounts for charity (recycling his profits) there are many more who ruthlessly take advantage of us all.
The thing that gets me about all of this is that the drivers of an extreme Brexit also push the idea of the U.K. becoming an even lower taxed regime to retain a competitive edge against the 27 EU countries. This will harm, not help the opportunities for ordinary people to get back to the situation whereby having an ordinary job means having disposable income. "
I was going to post something similar also pointing out it was deregulation of the banking sector leading to the subprime issue in America that caused the last crash..the hard brexit mantra encourages less regulation of these sector..A simple look at Mogg or Farage's actions in the past show they are for ruthlessly exploiting such situations. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Who are the super rich and how are they stealing?
It's a half baked populist lie.
Their methods may be circumspect but you'll actually find that you choose to use Amazon, Google and Facebook, buy designer goods, nice cars and branded household products
Come up with a good idea, work yourself into the ground for 10 years and get extremely lucky and you too could own half the planet.
Tax regimes could be tightened up but don't hate the player, hate the game as they say  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Is it not a strange phenomenon that most of the so called democratic western world is up to its eyeballs in debt? I’ve heard hundreds of billions of British pounds, and trillions of US dollars. Amounts that nobody has ever actually seen, just numbers on computer screens. But surely these amounts are insurmountable, how then will they ever be payed, and to whom do we owe them?
Governments do not need to have so much debt - they can choose to balance the books.
The last Labour Govt under the Blair/Brown PM/Chancellor ticket actually had the country running a surplus. The financial crash of 2007/2008 changed all that with the decision to bail out the banks.
The current debt is still growing since 2007 because none of the subsequent Governments have had the moral courage to make an election promise to do what was needed - raise taxes. Raising taxes and reasonable measures of austerity would have worked far better than the vicious austerity alone that we have seen.
The answer may not fit in with your outlook on the world but the economy works better when the majority of people have disposable income to spend in the local economy. When only the rich get richer they buy super yachts and flats in Monaco with their spare cash. Ordinary people may take an extra holiday or two, but in the main they will spend their spare cash locally and thereby drive the local economy.
The many, not the few have to see their place in the world improved for the nations debt to be tackled. To do this the entire tax regime in this country has to change.
Its old fashioned in some people’s eyes but more tax and fairer distribution of benefits is good for the population as a whole and with the state of world finances is probably the only safe path to take as otherwise we are left with war or financial collapse and the breakdown of society as the alternative possibilities and dont even get me started on religious or racial haters. The super rich are living to their own agenda and for every bill gates who does enormous amounts for charity (recycling his profits) there are many more who ruthlessly take advantage of us all.
The thing that gets me about all of this is that the drivers of an extreme Brexit also push the idea of the U.K. becoming an even lower taxed regime to retain a competitive edge against the 27 EU countries. This will harm, not help the opportunities for ordinary people to get back to the situation whereby having an ordinary job means having disposable income.
I was going to post something similar also pointing out it was deregulation of the banking sector leading to the subprime issue in America that caused the last crash..the hard brexit mantra encourages less regulation of these sector..A simple look at Mogg or Farage's actions in the past show they are for ruthlessly exploiting such situations."
It wasn't Mogg and Farage who deregulated the banks here in the UK though was it. It was Blair and Brown under a Labour majority government. The same Blair and Brown who back remain and want us to stay in the EU.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it not a strange phenomenon that most of the so called democratic western world is up to its eyeballs in debt? I’ve heard hundreds of billions of British pounds, and trillions of US dollars. Amounts that nobody has ever actually seen, just numbers on computer screens. But surely these amounts are insurmountable, how then will they ever be payed, and to whom do we owe them?
Governments do not need to have so much debt - they can choose to balance the books.
The last Labour Govt under the Blair/Brown PM/Chancellor ticket actually had the country running a surplus. The financial crash of 2007/2008 changed all that with the decision to bail out the banks.
The current debt is still growing since 2007 because none of the subsequent Governments have had the moral courage to make an election promise to do what was needed - raise taxes. Raising taxes and reasonable measures of austerity would have worked far better than the vicious austerity alone that we have seen.
The answer may not fit in with your outlook on the world but the economy works better when the majority of people have disposable income to spend in the local economy. When only the rich get richer they buy super yachts and flats in Monaco with their spare cash. Ordinary people may take an extra holiday or two, but in the main they will spend their spare cash locally and thereby drive the local economy.
The many, not the few have to see their place in the world improved for the nations debt to be tackled. To do this the entire tax regime in this country has to change.
Its old fashioned in some people’s eyes but more tax and fairer distribution of benefits is good for the population as a whole and with the state of world finances is probably the only safe path to take as otherwise we are left with war or financial collapse and the breakdown of society as the alternative possibilities and dont even get me started on religious or racial haters. The super rich are living to their own agenda and for every bill gates who does enormous amounts for charity (recycling his profits) there are many more who ruthlessly take advantage of us all.
The thing that gets me about all of this is that the drivers of an extreme Brexit also push the idea of the U.K. becoming an even lower taxed regime to retain a competitive edge against the 27 EU countries. This will harm, not help the opportunities for ordinary people to get back to the situation whereby having an ordinary job means having disposable income.
I was going to post something similar also pointing out it was deregulation of the banking sector leading to the subprime issue in America that caused the last crash..the hard brexit mantra encourages less regulation of these sector..A simple look at Mogg or Farage's actions in the past show they are for ruthlessly exploiting such situations.
It wasn't Mogg and Farage who deregulated the banks here in the UK though was it. It was Blair and Brown under a Labour majority government. The same Blair and Brown who back remain and want us to stay in the EU. "
The Big Bang was thatcher. Lawson was chancellor.... dangerous game saying if you’re wrong once you’re wrong always. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it not a strange phenomenon that most of the so called democratic western world is up to its eyeballs in debt? I’ve heard hundreds of billions of British pounds, and trillions of US dollars. Amounts that nobody has ever actually seen, just numbers on computer screens. But surely these amounts are insurmountable, how then will they ever be payed, and to whom do we owe them?
Governments do not need to have so much debt - they can choose to balance the books.
The last Labour Govt under the Blair/Brown PM/Chancellor ticket actually had the country running a surplus. The financial crash of 2007/2008 changed all that with the decision to bail out the banks.
The current debt is still growing since 2007 because none of the subsequent Governments have had the moral courage to make an election promise to do what was needed - raise taxes. Raising taxes and reasonable measures of austerity would have worked far better than the vicious austerity alone that we have seen.
The answer may not fit in with your outlook on the world but the economy works better when the majority of people have disposable income to spend in the local economy. When only the rich get richer they buy super yachts and flats in Monaco with their spare cash. Ordinary people may take an extra holiday or two, but in the main they will spend their spare cash locally and thereby drive the local economy.
The many, not the few have to see their place in the world improved for the nations debt to be tackled. To do this the entire tax regime in this country has to change.
Its old fashioned in some people’s eyes but more tax and fairer distribution of benefits is good for the population as a whole and with the state of world finances is probably the only safe path to take as otherwise we are left with war or financial collapse and the breakdown of society as the alternative possibilities and dont even get me started on religious or racial haters. The super rich are living to their own agenda and for every bill gates who does enormous amounts for charity (recycling his profits) there are many more who ruthlessly take advantage of us all.
The thing that gets me about all of this is that the drivers of an extreme Brexit also push the idea of the U.K. becoming an even lower taxed regime to retain a competitive edge against the 27 EU countries. This will harm, not help the opportunities for ordinary people to get back to the situation whereby having an ordinary job means having disposable income.
I was going to post something similar also pointing out it was deregulation of the banking sector leading to the subprime issue in America that caused the last crash..the hard brexit mantra encourages less regulation of these sector..A simple look at Mogg or Farage's actions in the past show they are for ruthlessly exploiting such situations.
It wasn't Mogg and Farage who deregulated the banks here in the UK though was it. It was Blair and Brown under a Labour majority government. The same Blair and Brown who back remain and want us to stay in the EU.
The Big Bang was thatcher. Lawson was chancellor.... dangerous game saying if you’re wrong once you’re wrong always. "
He also missed out I was talking about America. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Is it not a strange phenomenon that most of the so called democratic western world is up to its eyeballs in debt? I’ve heard hundreds of billions of British pounds, and trillions of US dollars. Amounts that nobody has ever actually seen, just numbers on computer screens. But surely these amounts are insurmountable, how then will they ever be payed, and to whom do we owe them?
Governments do not need to have so much debt - they can choose to balance the books.
The last Labour Govt under the Blair/Brown PM/Chancellor ticket actually had the country running a surplus. The financial crash of 2007/2008 changed all that with the decision to bail out the banks.
The current debt is still growing since 2007 because none of the subsequent Governments have had the moral courage to make an election promise to do what was needed - raise taxes. Raising taxes and reasonable measures of austerity would have worked far better than the vicious austerity alone that we have seen.
The answer may not fit in with your outlook on the world but the economy works better when the majority of people have disposable income to spend in the local economy. When only the rich get richer they buy super yachts and flats in Monaco with their spare cash. Ordinary people may take an extra holiday or two, but in the main they will spend their spare cash locally and thereby drive the local economy.
The many, not the few have to see their place in the world improved for the nations debt to be tackled. To do this the entire tax regime in this country has to change.
Its old fashioned in some people’s eyes but more tax and fairer distribution of benefits is good for the population as a whole and with the state of world finances is probably the only safe path to take as otherwise we are left with war or financial collapse and the breakdown of society as the alternative possibilities and dont even get me started on religious or racial haters. The super rich are living to their own agenda and for every bill gates who does enormous amounts for charity (recycling his profits) there are many more who ruthlessly take advantage of us all.
The thing that gets me about all of this is that the drivers of an extreme Brexit also push the idea of the U.K. becoming an even lower taxed regime to retain a competitive edge against the 27 EU countries. This will harm, not help the opportunities for ordinary people to get back to the situation whereby having an ordinary job means having disposable income.
I was going to post something similar also pointing out it was deregulation of the banking sector leading to the subprime issue in America that caused the last crash..the hard brexit mantra encourages less regulation of these sector..A simple look at Mogg or Farage's actions in the past show they are for ruthlessly exploiting such situations.
It wasn't Mogg and Farage who deregulated the banks here in the UK though was it. It was Blair and Brown under a Labour majority government. The same Blair and Brown who back remain and want us to stay in the EU.
The Big Bang was thatcher. Lawson was chancellor.... dangerous game saying if you’re wrong once you’re wrong always.
He also missed out I was talking about America."
You weren't talking about America when you brought Farage and Mogg into it, they're British. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it not a strange phenomenon that most of the so called democratic western world is up to its eyeballs in debt? I’ve heard hundreds of billions of British pounds, and trillions of US dollars. Amounts that nobody has ever actually seen, just numbers on computer screens. But surely these amounts are insurmountable, how then will they ever be payed, and to whom do we owe them?
Governments do not need to have so much debt - they can choose to balance the books.
The last Labour Govt under the Blair/Brown PM/Chancellor ticket actually had the country running a surplus. The financial crash of 2007/2008 changed all that with the decision to bail out the banks.
The current debt is still growing since 2007 because none of the subsequent Governments have had the moral courage to make an election promise to do what was needed - raise taxes. Raising taxes and reasonable measures of austerity would have worked far better than the vicious austerity alone that we have seen.
The answer may not fit in with your outlook on the world but the economy works better when the majority of people have disposable income to spend in the local economy. When only the rich get richer they buy super yachts and flats in Monaco with their spare cash. Ordinary people may take an extra holiday or two, but in the main they will spend their spare cash locally and thereby drive the local economy.
The many, not the few have to see their place in the world improved for the nations debt to be tackled. To do this the entire tax regime in this country has to change.
Its old fashioned in some people’s eyes but more tax and fairer distribution of benefits is good for the population as a whole and with the state of world finances is probably the only safe path to take as otherwise we are left with war or financial collapse and the breakdown of society as the alternative possibilities and dont even get me started on religious or racial haters. The super rich are living to their own agenda and for every bill gates who does enormous amounts for charity (recycling his profits) there are many more who ruthlessly take advantage of us all.
The thing that gets me about all of this is that the drivers of an extreme Brexit also push the idea of the U.K. becoming an even lower taxed regime to retain a competitive edge against the 27 EU countries. This will harm, not help the opportunities for ordinary people to get back to the situation whereby having an ordinary job means having disposable income.
I was going to post something similar also pointing out it was deregulation of the banking sector leading to the subprime issue in America that caused the last crash..the hard brexit mantra encourages less regulation of these sector..A simple look at Mogg or Farage's actions in the past show they are for ruthlessly exploiting such situations.
It wasn't Mogg and Farage who deregulated the banks here in the UK though was it. It was Blair and Brown under a Labour majority government. The same Blair and Brown who back remain and want us to stay in the EU.
The Big Bang was thatcher. Lawson was chancellor.... dangerous game saying if you’re wrong once you’re wrong always.
He also missed out I was talking about America.
You weren't talking about America when you brought Farage and Mogg into it, they're British. "
Read my post again. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it not a strange phenomenon that most of the so called democratic western world is up to its eyeballs in debt? I’ve heard hundreds of billions of British pounds, and trillions of US dollars. Amounts that nobody has ever actually seen, just numbers on computer screens. But surely these amounts are insurmountable, how then will they ever be payed, and to whom do we owe them?
Governments do not need to have so much debt - they can choose to balance the books.
The last Labour Govt under the Blair/Brown PM/Chancellor ticket actually had the country running a surplus. The financial crash of 2007/2008 changed all that with the decision to bail out the banks.
The current debt is still growing since 2007 because none of the subsequent Governments have had the moral courage to make an election promise to do what was needed - raise taxes. Raising taxes and reasonable measures of austerity would have worked far better than the vicious austerity alone that we have seen.
The answer may not fit in with your outlook on the world but the economy works better when the majority of people have disposable income to spend in the local economy. When only the rich get richer they buy super yachts and flats in Monaco with their spare cash. Ordinary people may take an extra holiday or two, but in the main they will spend their spare cash locally and thereby drive the local economy.
The many, not the few have to see their place in the world improved for the nations debt to be tackled. To do this the entire tax regime in this country has to change.
Its old fashioned in some people’s eyes but more tax and fairer distribution of benefits is good for the population as a whole and with the state of world finances is probably the only safe path to take as otherwise we are left with war or financial collapse and the breakdown of society as the alternative possibilities and dont even get me started on religious or racial haters. The super rich are living to their own agenda and for every bill gates who does enormous amounts for charity (recycling his profits) there are many more who ruthlessly take advantage of us all.
The thing that gets me about all of this is that the drivers of an extreme Brexit also push the idea of the U.K. becoming an even lower taxed regime to retain a competitive edge against the 27 EU countries. This will harm, not help the opportunities for ordinary people to get back to the situation whereby having an ordinary job means having disposable income.
I was going to post something similar also pointing out it was deregulation of the banking sector leading to the subprime issue in America that caused the last crash..the hard brexit mantra encourages less regulation of these sector..A simple look at Mogg or Farage's actions in the past show they are for ruthlessly exploiting such situations.
It wasn't Mogg and Farage who deregulated the banks here in the UK though was it. It was Blair and Brown under a Labour majority government. The same Blair and Brown who back remain and want us to stay in the EU.
The Big Bang was thatcher. Lawson was chancellor.... dangerous game saying if you’re wrong once you’re wrong always.
He also missed out I was talking about America.
You weren't talking about America when you brought Farage and Mogg into it, they're British. "
And you just hijack any point to push your mantra....its not engaging with the debate, it’s boorish and tedious of you |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Is the point the US deregulation (removal of glass-steagal) was the reason for the GFC. And that many across the world, including those in the UK, made hay while the sun shined.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Is it not a strange phenomenon that most of the so called democratic western world is up to its eyeballs in debt? I’ve heard hundreds of billions of British pounds, and trillions of US dollars. Amounts that nobody has ever actually seen, just numbers on computer screens. But surely these amounts are insurmountable, how then will they ever be payed, and to whom do we owe them?
Governments do not need to have so much debt - they can choose to balance the books.
The last Labour Govt under the Blair/Brown PM/Chancellor ticket actually had the country running a surplus. The financial crash of 2007/2008 changed all that with the decision to bail out the banks.
The current debt is still growing since 2007 because none of the subsequent Governments have had the moral courage to make an election promise to do what was needed - raise taxes. Raising taxes and reasonable measures of austerity would have worked far better than the vicious austerity alone that we have seen.
The answer may not fit in with your outlook on the world but the economy works better when the majority of people have disposable income to spend in the local economy. When only the rich get richer they buy super yachts and flats in Monaco with their spare cash. Ordinary people may take an extra holiday or two, but in the main they will spend their spare cash locally and thereby drive the local economy.
The many, not the few have to see their place in the world improved for the nations debt to be tackled. To do this the entire tax regime in this country has to change.
Its old fashioned in some people’s eyes but more tax and fairer distribution of benefits is good for the population as a whole and with the state of world finances is probably the only safe path to take as otherwise we are left with war or financial collapse and the breakdown of society as the alternative possibilities and dont even get me started on religious or racial haters. The super rich are living to their own agenda and for every bill gates who does enormous amounts for charity (recycling his profits) there are many more who ruthlessly take advantage of us all.
The thing that gets me about all of this is that the drivers of an extreme Brexit also push the idea of the U.K. becoming an even lower taxed regime to retain a competitive edge against the 27 EU countries. This will harm, not help the opportunities for ordinary people to get back to the situation whereby having an ordinary job means having disposable income.
I was going to post something similar also pointing out it was deregulation of the banking sector leading to the subprime issue in America that caused the last crash..the hard brexit mantra encourages less regulation of these sector..A simple look at Mogg or Farage's actions in the past show they are for ruthlessly exploiting such situations."
This is the great irony of Brexit. Many people wanted and needed something to change and they allowed Charlatans and conmen to let them believe that the root of all their woes was in Brussels. It simply isn’t true. The ordinary workers in Coventry, Stoke and Birmingham have more in common with their counterparts in Rotterdam, Cologne and Toulouse than they have differences.
Successive U.K. Govts have had the opportunity to make all the changes necessary in order to make society fairer and more balanced.
Unfortunately blaming foreigners is a more sellable message than increasing taxes.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Is it not a strange phenomenon that most of the so called democratic western world is up to its eyeballs in debt? I’ve heard hundreds of billions of British pounds, and trillions of US dollars. Amounts that nobody has ever actually seen, just numbers on computer screens. But surely these amounts are insurmountable, how then will they ever be payed, and to whom do we owe them?
Governments do not need to have so much debt - they can choose to balance the books.
The last Labour Govt under the Blair/Brown PM/Chancellor ticket actually had the country running a surplus. The financial crash of 2007/2008 changed all that with the decision to bail out the banks.
The current debt is still growing since 2007 because none of the subsequent Governments have had the moral courage to make an election promise to do what was needed - raise taxes. Raising taxes and reasonable measures of austerity would have worked far better than the vicious austerity alone that we have seen.
The answer may not fit in with your outlook on the world but the economy works better when the majority of people have disposable income to spend in the local economy. When only the rich get richer they buy super yachts and flats in Monaco with their spare cash. Ordinary people may take an extra holiday or two, but in the main they will spend their spare cash locally and thereby drive the local economy.
The many, not the few have to see their place in the world improved for the nations debt to be tackled. To do this the entire tax regime in this country has to change.
Its old fashioned in some people’s eyes but more tax and fairer distribution of benefits is good for the population as a whole and with the state of world finances is probably the only safe path to take as otherwise we are left with war or financial collapse and the breakdown of society as the alternative possibilities and dont even get me started on religious or racial haters. The super rich are living to their own agenda and for every bill gates who does enormous amounts for charity (recycling his profits) there are many more who ruthlessly take advantage of us all.
The thing that gets me about all of this is that the drivers of an extreme Brexit also push the idea of the U.K. becoming an even lower taxed regime to retain a competitive edge against the 27 EU countries. This will harm, not help the opportunities for ordinary people to get back to the situation whereby having an ordinary job means having disposable income.
I was going to post something similar also pointing out it was deregulation of the banking sector leading to the subprime issue in America that caused the last crash..the hard brexit mantra encourages less regulation of these sector..A simple look at Mogg or Farage's actions in the past show they are for ruthlessly exploiting such situations.
It wasn't Mogg and Farage who deregulated the banks here in the UK though was it. It was Blair and Brown under a Labour majority government. The same Blair and Brown who back remain and want us to stay in the EU.
The Big Bang was thatcher. Lawson was chancellor.... dangerous game saying if you’re wrong once you’re wrong always.
He also missed out I was talking about America.
You weren't talking about America when you brought Farage and Mogg into it, they're British.
Read my post again. "
I have done. You brought Farage and Mogg into it. They're not American, they're British, so you weren't just talking about America were you. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it not a strange phenomenon that most of the so called democratic western world is up to its eyeballs in debt? I’ve heard hundreds of billions of British pounds, and trillions of US dollars. Amounts that nobody has ever actually seen, just numbers on computer screens. But surely these amounts are insurmountable, how then will they ever be payed, and to whom do we owe them?
Governments do not need to have so much debt - they can choose to balance the books.
The last Labour Govt under the Blair/Brown PM/Chancellor ticket actually had the country running a surplus. The financial crash of 2007/2008 changed all that with the decision to bail out the banks.
The current debt is still growing since 2007 because none of the subsequent Governments have had the moral courage to make an election promise to do what was needed - raise taxes. Raising taxes and reasonable measures of austerity would have worked far better than the vicious austerity alone that we have seen.
The answer may not fit in with your outlook on the world but the economy works better when the majority of people have disposable income to spend in the local economy. When only the rich get richer they buy super yachts and flats in Monaco with their spare cash. Ordinary people may take an extra holiday or two, but in the main they will spend their spare cash locally and thereby drive the local economy.
The many, not the few have to see their place in the world improved for the nations debt to be tackled. To do this the entire tax regime in this country has to change.
Its old fashioned in some people’s eyes but more tax and fairer distribution of benefits is good for the population as a whole and with the state of world finances is probably the only safe path to take as otherwise we are left with war or financial collapse and the breakdown of society as the alternative possibilities and dont even get me started on religious or racial haters. The super rich are living to their own agenda and for every bill gates who does enormous amounts for charity (recycling his profits) there are many more who ruthlessly take advantage of us all.
The thing that gets me about all of this is that the drivers of an extreme Brexit also push the idea of the U.K. becoming an even lower taxed regime to retain a competitive edge against the 27 EU countries. This will harm, not help the opportunities for ordinary people to get back to the situation whereby having an ordinary job means having disposable income.
I was going to post something similar also pointing out it was deregulation of the banking sector leading to the subprime issue in America that caused the last crash..the hard brexit mantra encourages less regulation of these sector..A simple look at Mogg or Farage's actions in the past show they are for ruthlessly exploiting such situations.
It wasn't Mogg and Farage who deregulated the banks here in the UK though was it. It was Blair and Brown under a Labour majority government. The same Blair and Brown who back remain and want us to stay in the EU.
The Big Bang was thatcher. Lawson was chancellor.... dangerous game saying if you’re wrong once you’re wrong always.
He also missed out I was talking about America.
You weren't talking about America when you brought Farage and Mogg into it, they're British.
Read my post again.
I have done. You brought Farage and Mogg into it. They're not American, they're British, so you weren't just talking about America were you. "
I was talking about the American situation and how deregulation caused it... and pointing out that the Above 2 would be all for deregulation....You hijacked it to try and suit a different point.
The point you made had no context in this post! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it not a strange phenomenon that most of the so called democratic western world is up to its eyeballs in debt? I’ve heard hundreds of billions of British pounds, and trillions of US dollars. Amounts that nobody has ever actually seen, just numbers on computer screens. But surely these amounts are insurmountable, how then will they ever be payed, and to whom do we owe them?
Governments do not need to have so much debt - they can choose to balance the books.
The last Labour Govt under the Blair/Brown PM/Chancellor ticket actually had the country running a surplus. The financial crash of 2007/2008 changed all that with the decision to bail out the banks.
The current debt is still growing since 2007 because none of the subsequent Governments have had the moral courage to make an election promise to do what was needed - raise taxes. Raising taxes and reasonable measures of austerity would have worked far better than the vicious austerity alone that we have seen.
The answer may not fit in with your outlook on the world but the economy works better when the majority of people have disposable income to spend in the local economy. When only the rich get richer they buy super yachts and flats in Monaco with their spare cash. Ordinary people may take an extra holiday or two, but in the main they will spend their spare cash locally and thereby drive the local economy.
The many, not the few have to see their place in the world improved for the nations debt to be tackled. To do this the entire tax regime in this country has to change.
Its old fashioned in some people’s eyes but more tax and fairer distribution of benefits is good for the population as a whole and with the state of world finances is probably the only safe path to take as otherwise we are left with war or financial collapse and the breakdown of society as the alternative possibilities and dont even get me started on religious or racial haters. The super rich are living to their own agenda and for every bill gates who does enormous amounts for charity (recycling his profits) there are many more who ruthlessly take advantage of us all.
The thing that gets me about all of this is that the drivers of an extreme Brexit also push the idea of the U.K. becoming an even lower taxed regime to retain a competitive edge against the 27 EU countries. This will harm, not help the opportunities for ordinary people to get back to the situation whereby having an ordinary job means having disposable income.
I was going to post something similar also pointing out it was deregulation of the banking sector leading to the subprime issue in America that caused the last crash..the hard brexit mantra encourages less regulation of these sector..A simple look at Mogg or Farage's actions in the past show they are for ruthlessly exploiting such situations.
It wasn't Mogg and Farage who deregulated the banks here in the UK though was it. It was Blair and Brown under a Labour majority government. The same Blair and Brown who back remain and want us to stay in the EU.
The Big Bang was thatcher. Lawson was chancellor.... dangerous game saying if you’re wrong once you’re wrong always.
He also missed out I was talking about America.
You weren't talking about America when you brought Farage and Mogg into it, they're British.
Read my post again.
I have done. You brought Farage and Mogg into it. They're not American, they're British, so you weren't just talking about America were you. "
He was talking (I think) about us deregulation and some Brits making the most of it.
You merged the two and started to talk about uk deregulation. Which was started by thatcher and Lawson. Not labour.
At least that’s my reading of the thread. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it not a strange phenomenon that most of the so called democratic western world is up to its eyeballs in debt? I’ve heard hundreds of billions of British pounds, and trillions of US dollars. Amounts that nobody has ever actually seen, just numbers on computer screens. But surely these amounts are insurmountable, how then will they ever be payed, and to whom do we owe them?
Governments do not need to have so much debt - they can choose to balance the books.
The last Labour Govt under the Blair/Brown PM/Chancellor ticket actually had the country running a surplus. The financial crash of 2007/2008 changed all that with the decision to bail out the banks.
The current debt is still growing since 2007 because none of the subsequent Governments have had the moral courage to make an election promise to do what was needed - raise taxes. Raising taxes and reasonable measures of austerity would have worked far better than the vicious austerity alone that we have seen.
The answer may not fit in with your outlook on the world but the economy works better when the majority of people have disposable income to spend in the local economy. When only the rich get richer they buy super yachts and flats in Monaco with their spare cash. Ordinary people may take an extra holiday or two, but in the main they will spend their spare cash locally and thereby drive the local economy.
The many, not the few have to see their place in the world improved for the nations debt to be tackled. To do this the entire tax regime in this country has to change.
Its old fashioned in some people’s eyes but more tax and fairer distribution of benefits is good for the population as a whole and with the state of world finances is probably the only safe path to take as otherwise we are left with war or financial collapse and the breakdown of society as the alternative possibilities and dont even get me started on religious or racial haters. The super rich are living to their own agenda and for every bill gates who does enormous amounts for charity (recycling his profits) there are many more who ruthlessly take advantage of us all.
The thing that gets me about all of this is that the drivers of an extreme Brexit also push the idea of the U.K. becoming an even lower taxed regime to retain a competitive edge against the 27 EU countries. This will harm, not help the opportunities for ordinary people to get back to the situation whereby having an ordinary job means having disposable income.
I was going to post something similar also pointing out it was deregulation of the banking sector leading to the subprime issue in America that caused the last crash..the hard brexit mantra encourages less regulation of these sector..A simple look at Mogg or Farage's actions in the past show they are for ruthlessly exploiting such situations.
It wasn't Mogg and Farage who deregulated the banks here in the UK though was it. It was Blair and Brown under a Labour majority government. The same Blair and Brown who back remain and want us to stay in the EU.
The Big Bang was thatcher. Lawson was chancellor.... dangerous game saying if you’re wrong once you’re wrong always.
He also missed out I was talking about America.
You weren't talking about America when you brought Farage and Mogg into it, they're British.
Read my post again.
I have done. You brought Farage and Mogg into it. They're not American, they're British, so you weren't just talking about America were you.
He was talking (I think) about us deregulation and some Brits making the most of it.
You merged the two and started to talk about uk deregulation. Which was started by thatcher and Lawson. Not labour.
At least that’s my reading of the thread. "
Mine also surprisingly. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Is it not a strange phenomenon that most of the so called democratic western world is up to its eyeballs in debt? I’ve heard hundreds of billions of British pounds, and trillions of US dollars. Amounts that nobody has ever actually seen, just numbers on computer screens. But surely these amounts are insurmountable, how then will they ever be payed, and to whom do we owe them?
Governments do not need to have so much debt - they can choose to balance the books.
The last Labour Govt under the Blair/Brown PM/Chancellor ticket actually had the country running a surplus. The financial crash of 2007/2008 changed all that with the decision to bail out the banks.
The current debt is still growing since 2007 because none of the subsequent Governments have had the moral courage to make an election promise to do what was needed - raise taxes. Raising taxes and reasonable measures of austerity would have worked far better than the vicious austerity alone that we have seen.
The answer may not fit in with your outlook on the world but the economy works better when the majority of people have disposable income to spend in the local economy. When only the rich get richer they buy super yachts and flats in Monaco with their spare cash. Ordinary people may take an extra holiday or two, but in the main they will spend their spare cash locally and thereby drive the local economy.
The many, not the few have to see their place in the world improved for the nations debt to be tackled. To do this the entire tax regime in this country has to change.
Its old fashioned in some people’s eyes but more tax and fairer distribution of benefits is good for the population as a whole and with the state of world finances is probably the only safe path to take as otherwise we are left with war or financial collapse and the breakdown of society as the alternative possibilities and dont even get me started on religious or racial haters. The super rich are living to their own agenda and for every bill gates who does enormous amounts for charity (recycling his profits) there are many more who ruthlessly take advantage of us all.
The thing that gets me about all of this is that the drivers of an extreme Brexit also push the idea of the U.K. becoming an even lower taxed regime to retain a competitive edge against the 27 EU countries. This will harm, not help the opportunities for ordinary people to get back to the situation whereby having an ordinary job means having disposable income.
I was going to post something similar also pointing out it was deregulation of the banking sector leading to the subprime issue in America that caused the last crash..the hard brexit mantra encourages less regulation of these sector..A simple look at Mogg or Farage's actions in the past show they are for ruthlessly exploiting such situations.
It wasn't Mogg and Farage who deregulated the banks here in the UK though was it. It was Blair and Brown under a Labour majority government. The same Blair and Brown who back remain and want us to stay in the EU.
The Big Bang was thatcher. Lawson was chancellor.... dangerous game saying if you’re wrong once you’re wrong always.
He also missed out I was talking about America.
You weren't talking about America when you brought Farage and Mogg into it, they're British.
Read my post again.
I have done. You brought Farage and Mogg into it. They're not American, they're British, so you weren't just talking about America were you.
He was talking (I think) about us deregulation and some Brits making the most of it.
You merged the two and started to talk about uk deregulation. Which was started by thatcher and Lawson. Not labour.
At least that’s my reading of the thread.
Mine also surprisingly."
As the phrase goes, 'Birds of a feather, stick together', so it's no surprise you'd agree with each other. The fact is you said you were only talking about America, but You couldn't resist having a pop at Farage and Mogg, as soon as you mentioned their names then you brought the UK into it because they're British. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it not a strange phenomenon that most of the so called democratic western world is up to its eyeballs in debt? I’ve heard hundreds of billions of British pounds, and trillions of US dollars. Amounts that nobody has ever actually seen, just numbers on computer screens. But surely these amounts are insurmountable, how then will they ever be payed, and to whom do we owe them?
Governments do not need to have so much debt - they can choose to balance the books.
The last Labour Govt under the Blair/Brown PM/Chancellor ticket actually had the country running a surplus. The financial crash of 2007/2008 changed all that with the decision to bail out the banks.
The current debt is still growing since 2007 because none of the subsequent Governments have had the moral courage to make an election promise to do what was needed - raise taxes. Raising taxes and reasonable measures of austerity would have worked far better than the vicious austerity alone that we have seen.
The answer may not fit in with your outlook on the world but the economy works better when the majority of people have disposable income to spend in the local economy. When only the rich get richer they buy super yachts and flats in Monaco with their spare cash. Ordinary people may take an extra holiday or two, but in the main they will spend their spare cash locally and thereby drive the local economy.
The many, not the few have to see their place in the world improved for the nations debt to be tackled. To do this the entire tax regime in this country has to change.
Its old fashioned in some people’s eyes but more tax and fairer distribution of benefits is good for the population as a whole and with the state of world finances is probably the only safe path to take as otherwise we are left with war or financial collapse and the breakdown of society as the alternative possibilities and dont even get me started on religious or racial haters. The super rich are living to their own agenda and for every bill gates who does enormous amounts for charity (recycling his profits) there are many more who ruthlessly take advantage of us all.
The thing that gets me about all of this is that the drivers of an extreme Brexit also push the idea of the U.K. becoming an even lower taxed regime to retain a competitive edge against the 27 EU countries. This will harm, not help the opportunities for ordinary people to get back to the situation whereby having an ordinary job means having disposable income.
I was going to post something similar also pointing out it was deregulation of the banking sector leading to the subprime issue in America that caused the last crash..the hard brexit mantra encourages less regulation of these sector..A simple look at Mogg or Farage's actions in the past show they are for ruthlessly exploiting such situations.
It wasn't Mogg and Farage who deregulated the banks here in the UK though was it. It was Blair and Brown under a Labour majority government. The same Blair and Brown who back remain and want us to stay in the EU.
The Big Bang was thatcher. Lawson was chancellor.... dangerous game saying if you’re wrong once you’re wrong always.
He also missed out I was talking about America.
You weren't talking about America when you brought Farage and Mogg into it, they're British.
Read my post again.
I have done. You brought Farage and Mogg into it. They're not American, they're British, so you weren't just talking about America were you.
He was talking (I think) about us deregulation and some Brits making the most of it.
You merged the two and started to talk about uk deregulation. Which was started by thatcher and Lawson. Not labour.
At least that’s my reading of the thread.
Mine also surprisingly.
As the phrase goes, 'Birds of a feather, stick together', so it's no surprise you'd agree with each other. The fact is you said you were only talking about America, but You couldn't resist having a pop at Farage and Mogg, as soon as you mentioned their names then you brought the UK into it because they're British. "
I’d agree with you the brexiteers pop was unnecessary. But would disagree it meant the two bits should be combined.
If it did, it should have led us to tories (and a leaver) not labour (and remainers).
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it not a strange phenomenon that most of the so called democratic western world is up to its eyeballs in debt? I’ve heard hundreds of billions of British pounds, and trillions of US dollars. Amounts that nobody has ever actually seen, just numbers on computer screens. But surely these amounts are insurmountable, how then will they ever be payed, and to whom do we owe them?
Governments do not need to have so much debt - they can choose to balance the books.
The last Labour Govt under the Blair/Brown PM/Chancellor ticket actually had the country running a surplus. The financial crash of 2007/2008 changed all that with the decision to bail out the banks.
The current debt is still growing since 2007 because none of the subsequent Governments have had the moral courage to make an election promise to do what was needed - raise taxes. Raising taxes and reasonable measures of austerity would have worked far better than the vicious austerity alone that we have seen.
The answer may not fit in with your outlook on the world but the economy works better when the majority of people have disposable income to spend in the local economy. When only the rich get richer they buy super yachts and flats in Monaco with their spare cash. Ordinary people may take an extra holiday or two, but in the main they will spend their spare cash locally and thereby drive the local economy.
The many, not the few have to see their place in the world improved for the nations debt to be tackled. To do this the entire tax regime in this country has to change.
Its old fashioned in some people’s eyes but more tax and fairer distribution of benefits is good for the population as a whole and with the state of world finances is probably the only safe path to take as otherwise we are left with war or financial collapse and the breakdown of society as the alternative possibilities and dont even get me started on religious or racial haters. The super rich are living to their own agenda and for every bill gates who does enormous amounts for charity (recycling his profits) there are many more who ruthlessly take advantage of us all.
The thing that gets me about all of this is that the drivers of an extreme Brexit also push the idea of the U.K. becoming an even lower taxed regime to retain a competitive edge against the 27 EU countries. This will harm, not help the opportunities for ordinary people to get back to the situation whereby having an ordinary job means having disposable income.
I was going to post something similar also pointing out it was deregulation of the banking sector leading to the subprime issue in America that caused the last crash..the hard brexit mantra encourages less regulation of these sector..A simple look at Mogg or Farage's actions in the past show they are for ruthlessly exploiting such situations.
It wasn't Mogg and Farage who deregulated the banks here in the UK though was it. It was Blair and Brown under a Labour majority government. The same Blair and Brown who back remain and want us to stay in the EU.
The Big Bang was thatcher. Lawson was chancellor.... dangerous game saying if you’re wrong once you’re wrong always.
He also missed out I was talking about America.
You weren't talking about America when you brought Farage and Mogg into it, they're British.
Read my post again.
I have done. You brought Farage and Mogg into it. They're not American, they're British, so you weren't just talking about America were you.
He was talking (I think) about us deregulation and some Brits making the most of it.
You merged the two and started to talk about uk deregulation. Which was started by thatcher and Lawson. Not labour.
At least that’s my reading of the thread.
Mine also surprisingly.
As the phrase goes, 'Birds of a feather, stick together', so it's no surprise you'd agree with each other. The fact is you said you were only talking about America, but You couldn't resist having a pop at Farage and Mogg, as soon as you mentioned their names then you brought the UK into it because they're British. "
So,Who deregulated the banks Centy?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Those delightful souls Raegan, coupled with Thatcher, initiated the freefall from healthy market constraints, including with the financial sector, that avalanched into many of the ills the world has today. The more recent ultra rightwing movements, towards an even smaller state with fewer safeguards and constraints, pushed is to reduced housing and service investments, whilst people suffered and had their hatred channelled by deflection off away from those extremists
Fixing things means greater constraints and investment for the good of the people. As £billions pays for Brexit, which may not be completed, money is not being invested to fix what was deficient |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Those delightful souls Raegan, coupled with Thatcher, initiated the freefall from healthy market constraints, including with the financial sector, that avalanched into many of the ills the world has today. The more recent ultra rightwing movements, towards an even smaller state with fewer safeguards and constraints, pushed is to reduced housing and service investments, whilst people suffered and had their hatred channelled by deflection off away from those extremists
Fixing things means greater constraints and investment for the good of the people. As £billions pays for Brexit, which may not be completed, money is not being invested to fix what was deficient "
To be fair 2008 did usher in plenty of regulation around lending practices.
But don't let the facts get in the way of a good lyching. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Those delightful souls Raegan, coupled with Thatcher, initiated the freefall from healthy market constraints, including with the financial sector, that avalanched into many of the ills the world has today. The more recent ultra rightwing movements, towards an even smaller state with fewer safeguards and constraints, pushed is to reduced housing and service investments, whilst people suffered and had their hatred channelled by deflection off away from those extremists
Fixing things means greater constraints and investment for the good of the people. As £billions pays for Brexit, which may not be completed, money is not being invested to fix what was deficient
To be fair 2008 did usher in plenty of regulation around lending practices.
But don't let the facts get in the way of a good lyching. "
Ah now it’s not a lynching....just a gentle reminder to stay on track and partake in honest and open minded debate |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
All this hate the rich stuff will turn in to lynching. It's a very stupid notion that the rich steal from the poor. Small minded jealousy.
Look at the yellow jacket wankers and the likes of peaceheaven here who like to be "persuasive" |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it not a strange phenomenon that most of the so called democratic western world is up to its eyeballs in debt? I’ve heard hundreds of billions of British pounds, and trillions of US dollars. Amounts that nobody has ever actually seen, just numbers on computer screens. But surely these amounts are insurmountable, how then will they ever be payed, and to whom do we owe them?
Governments do not need to have so much debt - they can choose to balance the books.
The last Labour Govt under the Blair/Brown PM/Chancellor ticket actually had the country running a surplus. The financial crash of 2007/2008 changed all that with the decision to bail out the banks.
The current debt is still growing since 2007 because none of the subsequent Governments have had the moral courage to make an election promise to do what was needed - raise taxes. Raising taxes and reasonable measures of austerity would have worked far better than the vicious austerity alone that we have seen.
The answer may not fit in with your outlook on the world but the economy works better when the majority of people have disposable income to spend in the local economy. When only the rich get richer they buy super yachts and flats in Monaco with their spare cash. Ordinary people may take an extra holiday or two, but in the main they will spend their spare cash locally and thereby drive the local economy.
The many, not the few have to see their place in the world improved for the nations debt to be tackled. To do this the entire tax regime in this country has to change.
Its old fashioned in some people’s eyes but more tax and fairer distribution of benefits is good for the population as a whole and with the state of world finances is probably the only safe path to take as otherwise we are left with war or financial collapse and the breakdown of society as the alternative possibilities and dont even get me started on religious or racial haters. The super rich are living to their own agenda and for every bill gates who does enormous amounts for charity (recycling his profits) there are many more who ruthlessly take advantage of us all.
The thing that gets me about all of this is that the drivers of an extreme Brexit also push the idea of the U.K. becoming an even lower taxed regime to retain a competitive edge against the 27 EU countries. This will harm, not help the opportunities for ordinary people to get back to the situation whereby having an ordinary job means having disposable income.
I was going to post something similar also pointing out it was deregulation of the banking sector leading to the subprime issue in America that caused the last crash..the hard brexit mantra encourages less regulation of these sector..A simple look at Mogg or Farage's actions in the past show they are for ruthlessly exploiting such situations.
It wasn't Mogg and Farage who deregulated the banks here in the UK though was it. It was Blair and Brown under a Labour majority government. The same Blair and Brown who back remain and want us to stay in the EU.
The Big Bang was thatcher. Lawson was chancellor.... dangerous game saying if you’re wrong once you’re wrong always.
He also missed out I was talking about America.
You weren't talking about America when you brought Farage and Mogg into it, they're British.
Read my post again.
I have done. You brought Farage and Mogg into it. They're not American, they're British, so you weren't just talking about America were you.
He was talking (I think) about us deregulation and some Brits making the most of it.
You merged the two and started to talk about uk deregulation. Which was started by thatcher and Lawson. Not labour.
At least that’s my reading of the thread.
Mine also surprisingly.
As the phrase goes, 'Birds of a feather, stick together', so it's no surprise you'd agree with each other. The fact is you said you were only talking about America, but You couldn't resist having a pop at Farage and Mogg, as soon as you mentioned their names then you brought the UK into it because they're British. "
Another phrase "pot calling the kettle black " - in other words you always try to have a pop at the EU. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Rereading I now think there are three arguments being made
1. The GFC came from US deregulation.
2. (Some) prominent leavers would likely be in favour of deregulation.
3. There was UK deregulation, and those who introduced it should not be listened to when it comes to brexit.
(I’ve been a bit cheeky on 3 as imo it read a bit like a pop at remainers in the face of a pop at leavers. Centaur, please correct what argument you were making).
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Is there likely to be an imminent crash? If there were to be one, the UK could struggle whilst out of the EU. Would you welcome the continuation and increase of austerity measure, if you are its main target? What period of time would be needed to achieve several years of sustained growth and income levels rising more than inflation? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Is it not a strange phenomenon that most of the so called democratic western world is up to its eyeballs in debt? I’ve heard hundreds of billions of British pounds, and trillions of US dollars. Amounts that nobody has ever actually seen, just numbers on computer screens. But surely these amounts are insurmountable, how then will they ever be payed, and to whom do we owe them?
There are no concrete answers to any of those questions, except that our democracies are wide open to corruption and have been for many years. The so called “credit crunch” and the banking crisis were caused by the greed of people who had been entrusted with the purse strings of our nations, and who spirited away as much of our money as was possible, to goodness knows where. Yet even those who were caught were not made to pay the money they took back. Some were actually given generous retirement payoffs.
So I ask, has capitalism, democracy, and liberalism actually achieved anything except huge debt and poverty?"
So; capitalism, democracy and liberalism are bad?
What is your preference then?
You do also know that personal debt in the UK, amongst other nations, is higher than it's ever been. Trillions. Not just for necessities. Mainly to acquire "stuff".
It's as much our fault as anyone else's no? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Is it not a strange phenomenon that most of the so called democratic western world is up to its eyeballs in debt? I’ve heard hundreds of billions of British pounds, and trillions of US dollars. Amounts that nobody has ever actually seen, just numbers on computer screens. But surely these amounts are insurmountable, how then will they ever be payed, and to whom do we owe them?
Governments do not need to have so much debt - they can choose to balance the books.
The last Labour Govt under the Blair/Brown PM/Chancellor ticket actually had the country running a surplus. The financial crash of 2007/2008 changed all that with the decision to bail out the banks.
The current debt is still growing since 2007 because none of the subsequent Governments have had the moral courage to make an election promise to do what was needed - raise taxes. Raising taxes and reasonable measures of austerity would have worked far better than the vicious austerity alone that we have seen.
The answer may not fit in with your outlook on the world but the economy works better when the majority of people have disposable income to spend in the local economy. When only the rich get richer they buy super yachts and flats in Monaco with their spare cash. Ordinary people may take an extra holiday or two, but in the main they will spend their spare cash locally and thereby drive the local economy.
The many, not the few have to see their place in the world improved for the nations debt to be tackled. To do this the entire tax regime in this country has to change."
The Blair and Brown government running a surplus.
Only because they sold the gold at the lowest rate going and then did s massive grab on people's pensions.
They stole our money and gave it away.
I would tell you the rest but I just can't be arsed.
Those 2 need to be put up against a wall and shot for wrecking this country. They caused more harm to the UK than Thatcher in her worse days. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
well if you are talking about US debt you will find the perception and the reality are very strange creature...
the republicans are the ones seen as the small government fiscally responsible ones... and the democrats are the once who are the big spending socialists...
but actually since world war 2... every republican president under their lead has seen the total debt as a share of GDP go up...... and every democratic president under their term has seen the total debt as a share of the GDP has gone down.... heck under clinton the total Debt actually went down as he ran a fiscally positive administration!!!
so when trump basically gave his rich friends a "tax cut" and stuck another trillion dollars on the national debt, it wasn't an uncommon act.....
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is it not a strange phenomenon that most of the so called democratic western world is up to its eyeballs in debt? I’ve heard hundreds of billions of British pounds, and trillions of US dollars. Amounts that nobody has ever actually seen, just numbers on computer screens. But surely these amounts are insurmountable, how then will they ever be payed, and to whom do we owe them?
There are no concrete answers to any of those questions, except that our democracies are wide open to corruption and have been for many years. The so called “credit crunch” and the banking crisis were caused by the greed of people who had been entrusted with the purse strings of our nations, and who spirited away as much of our money as was possible, to goodness knows where. Yet even those who were caught were not made to pay the money they took back. Some were actually given generous retirement payoffs.
So I ask, has capitalism, democracy, and liberalism actually achieved anything except huge debt and poverty?
So; capitalism, democracy and liberalism are bad?
What is your preference then?
You do also know that personal debt in the UK, amongst other nations, is higher than it's ever been. Trillions. Not just for necessities. Mainly to acquire "stuff".
It's as much our fault as anyone else's no?"
 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Is it not a strange phenomenon that most of the so called democratic western world is up to its eyeballs in debt? I’ve heard hundreds of billions of British pounds, and trillions of US dollars. Amounts that nobody has ever actually seen, just numbers on computer screens. But surely these amounts are insurmountable, how then will they ever be payed, and to whom do we owe them?
There are no concrete answers to any of those questions, except that our democracies are wide open to corruption and have been for many years. The so called “credit crunch” and the banking crisis were caused by the greed of people who had been entrusted with the purse strings of our nations, and who spirited away as much of our money as was possible, to goodness knows where. Yet even those who were caught were not made to pay the money they took back. Some were actually given generous retirement payoffs.
So I ask, has capitalism, democracy, and liberalism actually achieved anything except huge debt and poverty?"
You haven't yet come up with an alternative to capitalism, democracy and liberalism.
Also, for some reason, I accepted your initial hypothesis.
It is, of course, nonsense.
If you already live in a failed state or dictatorship then life is not very pleasant anyway. Perhaps you think otherwise.
Communism has failed as it has always transitioned to dictatorship of one form or another.
Monarchies are either absolute, see above, or constitutional and therefore democratic.
A stable democracy with well functioning public institutions and an independent democracy is less open to corruption than other forms of government as far as I can tell.
On the whole, we have chosen debt so that we can buy things for ourselves and elected governments that make borrowing easier for us and reduce our taxes so that we can buy more.
I think you are looking for others to blame for our own failings. Our selfishness in not sharing wealth and knowledge. Not cooperating to solve global problems because we think it will cost is something and fear of the consequences from climate change to migration leading to a clamour for "strong leaders" and the dismantling of the institutions that brought us the prosperity that is no longer adequate for our needs.
Your solution always seems to be to rip things down without a plan for what to replace it with. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
It's like you are reading my mind _asyuk.
All these stupid fucking "movements"...the blind leading the blind...all happy to "tear down" and destroy without knowing what they want.
Nobody understands iatrogenic effects.
We need global cooperation and data driven management and the right personalities in charge (competence x niceness).
Politics in the current format naturally attracts weasels.
Humans are proving too stupid to work together unfortunately.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Is it not a strange phenomenon that most of the so called democratic western world is up to its eyeballs in debt? I’ve heard hundreds of billions of British pounds, and trillions of US dollars. Amounts that nobody has ever actually seen, just numbers on computer screens. But surely these amounts are insurmountable, how then will they ever be payed, and to whom do we owe them?
There are no concrete answers to any of those questions, except that our democracies are wide open to corruption and have been for many years. The so called “credit crunch” and the banking crisis were caused by the greed of people who had been entrusted with the purse strings of our nations, and who spirited away as much of our money as was possible, to goodness knows where. Yet even those who were caught were not made to pay the money they took back. Some were actually given generous retirement payoffs.
So I ask, has capitalism, democracy, and liberalism actually achieved anything except huge debt and poverty?
You haven't yet come up with an alternative to capitalism, democracy and liberalism.
Also, for some reason, I accepted your initial hypothesis.
It is, of course, nonsense.
If you already live in a failed state or dictatorship then life is not very pleasant anyway. Perhaps you think otherwise.
Communism has failed as it has always transitioned to dictatorship of one form or another.
Monarchies are either absolute, see above, or constitutional and therefore democratic.
A stable democracy with well functioning public institutions and an independent democracy is less open to corruption than other forms of government as far as I can tell.
On the whole, we have chosen debt so that we can buy things for ourselves and elected governments that make borrowing easier for us and reduce our taxes so that we can buy more.
I think you are looking for others to blame for our own failings. Our selfishness in not sharing wealth and knowledge. Not cooperating to solve global problems because we think it will cost is something and fear of the consequences from climate change to migration leading to a clamour for "strong leaders" and the dismantling of the institutions that brought us the prosperity that is no longer adequate for our needs.
Your solution always seems to be to rip things down without a plan for what to replace it with."
*independent judiciary |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
