FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Who's looking forward to Irish unification?
Who's looking forward to Irish unification?
Jump to: Newest in thread
It's so ironic that brexit hangs so much on arguments over the Irish border, when demographics will cause that dividing line to disappear within a very short time.
One might even suggest that the brexit referendum, throwing up in its result such a major problem, should have been followed by a referendum in NI on whether the population wished to remain within the present UK or to follow the logical path of reunification with their southern neighbours.
Of those who voted, 55.8% expressed a desire to remain in the EC, yet the hard right DUP extremists are the tail wagging the dog, not only in their own back yard, but also in determining UK policy. So, in one very significant aspect of life in NI, remaining in the EC through joining with the Republic of Ireland, satisfies democratic principles.
One major argument against unification used in days gone by was the power of the RC church hierarchy. No longer - those days are gone, thanks to the revelations about the abusive excesses of priests, cardinals and even nuns. Nowadays, the republic looks like the progressive country, the north as a fundamentalist quasi-theocracy.
With such a large percentage of the province favouring unification, surely fairness demands that the appetite for this should be tested by referendum. To oppose the right of the people to be consulted is anti-democratic. But then, neither May nor Foster are renowned for their promulgation of democratic principles. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
No, I do not. The only poll which can be trusted is by referendum or GE. Haven't you noticed that political polling throughout the western world has been undermined by reality in recent times?
Would you not welcome a proper, genuine poll of the people's wish on this important aspect of their future? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Since the last opinion poll showed only 21% of NI people wanted a United Ireland, do you feel your views on demographic change are a bit naive?"
When was that? The polls Ive seen suggest it's more like 40%+ |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
 |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Since the last opinion poll showed only 21% of NI people wanted a United Ireland, do you feel your views on demographic change are a bit naive?
When was that? The polls Ive seen suggest it's more like 40%+"
.
It wouldn't matter if it was 99% it only takes 1% of idiots to ruin a democratic decision. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
the north could well vote for a united ireland but also depends on if the republic then vote for it.and at the mo im not sure they would.will the ppl in the south at this time really want to take on the financial burden of running the north you know hospitals school benefits system roads all the boring but expensive things in life.if they vote for it good luck to them.hopefully they wont be like scotland who voted to remain in the u.k but the ones that lost still demandin another vote. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"the north could well vote for a united ireland but also depends on if the republic then vote for it.and at the mo im not sure they would.will the ppl in the south at this time really want to take on the financial burden of running the north you know hospitals school benefits system roads all the boring but expensive things in life.if they vote for it good luck to them.hopefully they wont be like scotland who voted to remain in the u.k but the ones that lost still demandin another vote."
I often hear politicians describe a referendum as a "once in a generation" vote.
How long is a generation?
It is defined in law in only one place - the Belfast Agreement.
A second referendum cannot be held until seven years have elapsed.
Seven years is a generation.
The general expectation is the SNP will make independence the centrepiece of their manifesto for the 2021 election to the Scottish Parliament.
The referendum was in 2014.
Seven years.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
thats if the people still trust the s.n.p they not doing to well with education and health at the mo.was intresting watching question time the other night from scotland.the woman from the s.n.p didnt seem to be getting a good reception but then again neither were the others on the show.as far as i can see the snp are a one trick pony.love to know how divided the country still is after the last indy ref.if i remember both sides hated one another |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
The needle on the polls hasn't shifted since 2014.
Leave still hitting 45 % or so.
What has happened is a bit of churn behind the headline figure.
The middle class person who voted Remain in 2014 is now moving towards Leave because of the EU issue.
The cloth cap person who voted Leave in 2014 is now moving towards Remain because of the EU issue.
Mrs Sturgeon really wants to be hitting 60% in the polls before she has another go.
If Brexit is as big a fiasco as it is shaping up to be, that's probably her best bet.
So many of the unionist arguments used in 2014 - the original Project Fear - are now dud.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
So many of the unionist arguments used in 2014 - the original Project Fear - are now dud.
"
Most of the arguments still stand and indeed have been reinforced, Brexit will have an impact though as I expect it to be a clusterfuck. Remember though the SNP have now disowned their own white paper from 2014 as it has been shown up to be a work of fiction. One of it's author's Alex Bell has been pretty scathing about it
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The needle on the polls hasn't shifted since 2014.
Leave still hitting 45 % or so.
What has happened is a bit of churn behind the headline figure.
The middle class person who voted Remain in 2014 is now moving towards Leave because of the EU issue.
The cloth cap person who voted Leave in 2014 is now moving towards Remain because of the EU issue.
Mrs Sturgeon really wants to be hitting 60% in the polls before she has another go.
If Brexit is as big a fiasco as it is shaping up to be, that's probably her best bet.
So many of the unionist arguments used in 2014 - the original Project Fear - are now dud.
"
If Alex Salmond is found guilty on multiple counts in this sex abuse court case he's currently going through its likely he'll be behind bars in 2021. Not really a good advert for the SNP is he. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"The needle on the polls hasn't shifted since 2014.
Leave still hitting 45 % or so.
What has happened is a bit of churn behind the headline figure.
The middle class person who voted Remain in 2014 is now moving towards Leave because of the EU issue.
The cloth cap person who voted Leave in 2014 is now moving towards Remain because of the EU issue.
Mrs Sturgeon really wants to be hitting 60% in the polls before she has another go.
If Brexit is as big a fiasco as it is shaping up to be, that's probably her best bet.
So many of the unionist arguments used in 2014 - the original Project Fear - are now dud.
If Alex Salmond is found guilty on multiple counts in this sex abuse court case he's currently going through its likely he'll be behind bars in 2021. Not really a good advert for the SNP is he. "
Salmond is a marmite politician.
The vote is not about the SNP, never has been.
That would be like arguing a vote to leave the EU was a vote to be ruled by UKIP. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The needle on the polls hasn't shifted since 2014.
Leave still hitting 45 % or so.
What has happened is a bit of churn behind the headline figure.
The middle class person who voted Remain in 2014 is now moving towards Leave because of the EU issue.
The cloth cap person who voted Leave in 2014 is now moving towards Remain because of the EU issue.
Mrs Sturgeon really wants to be hitting 60% in the polls before she has another go.
If Brexit is as big a fiasco as it is shaping up to be, that's probably her best bet.
So many of the unionist arguments used in 2014 - the original Project Fear - are now dud.
If Alex Salmond is found guilty on multiple counts in this sex abuse court case he's currently going through its likely he'll be behind bars in 2021. Not really a good advert for the SNP is he.
Salmond is a marmite politician.
The vote is not about the SNP, never has been.
That would be like arguing a vote to leave the EU was a vote to be ruled by UKIP."
Sorry but I disagree with you saying the vote is not about the SNP and never has been. They are the ones who decided to call the vote (with WM permission) and came up with the the prospectus for indy Scotland and would've decided on currency etc (something they still haven't done). They done that without the input of others. There's been a lot of criticism from many pro-indy groups about the SNP's control and failure to consult or co-operate with other groups in terms of decision making, they were indulged but held at arms length. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The needle on the polls hasn't shifted since 2014.
Leave still hitting 45 % or so.
What has happened is a bit of churn behind the headline figure.
The middle class person who voted Remain in 2014 is now moving towards Leave because of the EU issue.
The cloth cap person who voted Leave in 2014 is now moving towards Remain because of the EU issue.
Mrs Sturgeon really wants to be hitting 60% in the polls before she has another go.
If Brexit is as big a fiasco as it is shaping up to be, that's probably her best bet.
So many of the unionist arguments used in 2014 - the original Project Fear - are now dud.
If Alex Salmond is found guilty on multiple counts in this sex abuse court case he's currently going through its likely he'll be behind bars in 2021. Not really a good advert for the SNP is he.
Salmond is a marmite politician.
The vote is not about the SNP, never has been.
That would be like arguing a vote to leave the EU was a vote to be ruled by UKIP."
If you think Alex Salmond wasn't a big factor in achieving the Scots indy ref in 2014 then you're kidding yourself. That would be like saying Nigel Farage had no influence in bringing about the EU referendum in 2016.
Alex Salmond was also a major player in making the case for Scottish independence during the referendum in 2014, if he's behind bars in 2021, then the Nats in Scotland will have to make do without him in another referendum.
An equivalent would be like removing Nigel Farage having any influence from a 2nd referendum on membership of the EU. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
" A referendum on Scottish independence was first held in September 2014, when 55% voted against the proposal. One of the reasons cited by those opposed to Scottish independence was that it would endanger Scotland being part of the European Union(EU). Following the Conservative victory in the May 2015 UK general election, a referendum on UK membership of the EU was organised. The Scottish National Party(SNP), which supports Scottish independence, stated in its manifesto for the May 2016 Scottish Parliament election that it would consider holding a second independence referendum if there was a material change of circumstances, such as the UK leaving the EU ".
Seems fair that Scotland should get a 2nd Referendum as the 1st was based on No vote meaning Scotland would remain part of the EU . |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
I would be happy to see Ireland as one nation,get rid of some problems and Ireland is an island so they are one nation just as England,Scotland and Wales are maybe.
The thing is however the majority want to be part of the United Kingdom and it our duty to honour that.
This as a lot of arguments has nothing to do with the EU and Brexit,it is historical.We must therefore embrace N Ireland as it is part of us |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
The United Kingdom may be one state, but it is not one nation.
The Act of Union applies.
The EU is a collection of sovereign states.
The UK is a sovereign collection of nations.
One is highly centralised, the other is not.
Each has evolved in different ways to represent different things at different periods in time.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
