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Brexit is the downfall of the torys
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I already said it in my other brexit post, but I wanted to make a separate one for this, whats your view, is this the end game? "
I know one Brexit voter. He voted leave because he thought it would ruin the Tories.
I think people will vote for them no matter what they do. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Not just the Conservatives. I think it's shown Labour up as well. Indecisive on their position on Brexit. The party voted, at conference, to support a 2nd referendum, but their Leader has gone against this all the way. |
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Shows Labour & Jezza have played a Blinder .
Ive said for a long time that i didnt want Labour to win an Election before Brexit or remain was done.
Labour had the masterstroke of putting Jezza in charge as they knew there would be a Snap election & while the labour vote increased , we all know the tories were best losers in the GE thanks to the press hatred for JC.
Forcing weak & wobbly to continue.
The Story Party will die as soon as Brexit is done & the next GE is called .
Bravo Labour , you have played a BLINDER. |
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Shocking how incapable the establishment is of governing. The opposition are acting with as much self-interest in the hope that they take power but Corbyn is no fool and does not want the position of control now as he would also face the same undeliverable agreement only coming from a more socialist stance...
The centralised and insular view of London has left the rest of England neglected. Of course the Scots got screwed/bullied (by both London & Brussels) as they chose to stay in the UK under threat that they would not automatically join the EU if they left and the Irish have families split over a border that London politicians NEVER cross... scandalous.
Truth is that Joe Public will carry on being the mindless herd that Whitehall counts on. I am almost angry enough to may a placard. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They'll be crucified next election and it will probably be the only benefit of brexit.bob tbh I think it’s labour who have fucked themselves in the next ge "
I think this exchange says it all. People will largely stick to the party they've always voted for regardless. |
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I like the idea of that independent group, i think are now trying to be a party. But I'm put off that chuck bloke. The rest seem you could deal with them.
Libdems not really sure about them, they are like a pop up box only speak when can be bothered.
Defo not tories i feel sorry for some of them but they came as a package so they have to leave as a package. Treasa may distroed the party and they let her seemly to keep their job for a couple more years.
Labour so many nice people in Labour my mp is Labour but he's not always on the people side once again, so I feel he will go in local election. I'm not sure about Jeremy Corbyn hes not always truthful in what he says. I think that his goal before he pops it is to be pm.
Ithink i will be abstaining from voting unless a party pops up i like the 100% off  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I like the idea of that independent group, i think are now trying to be a party. But I'm put off that chuck bloke. The rest seem you could deal with them.
Libdems not really sure about them, they are like a pop up box only speak when can be bothered.
Defo not tories i feel sorry for some of them but they came as a package so they have to leave as a package. Treasa may distroed the party and they let her seemly to keep their job for a couple more years.
Labour so many nice people in Labour my mp is Labour but he's not always on the people side once again, so I feel he will go in local election. I'm not sure about Jeremy Corbyn hes not always truthful in what he says. I think that his goal before he pops it is to be pm.
Ithink i will be abstaining from voting unless a party pops up i like the 100% off "
Greens! |
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"I like the idea of that independent group, i think are now trying to be a party. But I'm put off that chuck bloke. The rest seem you could deal with them.
Libdems not really sure about them, they are like a pop up box only speak when can be bothered.
Defo not tories i feel sorry for some of them but they came as a package so they have to leave as a package. Treasa may distroed the party and they let her seemly to keep their job for a couple more years.
Labour so many nice people in Labour my mp is Labour but he's not always on the people side once again, so I feel he will go in local election. I'm not sure about Jeremy Corbyn hes not always truthful in what he says. I think that his goal before he pops it is to be pm.
Ithink i will be abstaining from voting unless a party pops up i like the 100% off
Greens! "
Never heard of them reach is required, we simply need a modern day parliament and government and with much younger mps in the mix
The lad for plaid cymru Councillor for llanwarst North Wales is so screwed on with politics.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I already said it in my other brexit post, but I wanted to make a separate one for this, whats your view, is this the end game? "
.
The only poll that matters is the one returned on the day of the election . Everything else in bwtween is irrelevant
It is difficult to see how any financially reponsible person would contemplate voting Labour ( especially when you read the thoughts of the shadow chancellor ) .
A Labour government would simply destroy the economy and make all of us a lot worse off . |
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"They'll be crucified next election and it will probably be the only benefit of brexit.bob tbh I think it’s labour who have fucked themselves in the next ge
I think this exchange says it all. People will largely stick to the party they've always voted for regardless."
I think you're correct, most people will stick to the party they've always voted for regardless. That's always been the way. However elections are not normally won by the party that has the most loyal voters but by party that persuades the most non committed voters to vote for it.
The real question that those floating voters will be asking themselves is which to they fear more, a Conservative party that has proved itself too bound up with anti-Euro dogma to govern or a Labour party with a set of economic policies that many believe could do more harm than BREXIT.
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"I already said it in my other brexit post, but I wanted to make a separate one for this, whats your view, is this the end game? .
The only poll that matters is the one returned on the day of the election . Everything else in bwtween is irrelevant
It is difficult to see how any financially reponsible person would contemplate voting Labour ( especially when you read the thoughts of the shadow chancellor ) .
A Labour government would simply destroy the economy and make all of us a lot worse off . "
The national debt was 960 billion in April 2010 about when Cameron came to office, it's currently at 1.76 trillion so it has almost doubled under the Tory party.... for reference it was 347 billion in 96/97 so the Torys have added a whole lot more in 9 years than the labour party did in 12-13 years, despite austerity, at least we didn't lose so much under labour did we? We had thousands more emergency service personnel... Books in schools, local council funding cut to the bone, roads in a shit state etc etc etc |
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"I already said it in my other brexit post, but I wanted to make a separate one for this, whats your view, is this the end game? .
The only poll that matters is the one returned on the day of the election . Everything else in bwtween is irrelevant
It is difficult to see how any financially reponsible person would contemplate voting Labour ( especially when you read the thoughts of the shadow chancellor ) .
A Labour government would simply destroy the economy and make all of us a lot worse off . "
Lucky that the Tories havent completely screwed the economy and the country eh? |
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"I already said it in my other brexit post, but I wanted to make a separate one for this, whats your view, is this the end game? .
The only poll that matters is the one returned on the day of the election . Everything else in bwtween is irrelevant
It is difficult to see how any financially reponsible person would contemplate voting Labour ( especially when you read the thoughts of the shadow chancellor ) .
A Labour government would simply destroy the economy and make all of us a lot worse off . "
As maybe but, unfortunately, the Conservatives have thrown away any claim to financial responsibility by pursuing a dogmatic BREXIT policy. It's not credible to claim to be the party of sound finance and good business while at the same time pursuing a policy that nearly every business and financial organisation is screaming out is going to seriously damage both; and then reply to them saying "fuck business". The Conservatives need to stop harping on about how bad Labour's economic policy may be to business and start taking more notice of how badly business is telling them their BREXIT policy is bad for business now. Until then the Conservatives simply can not be taken seriously on business at all.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I already said it in my other brexit post, but I wanted to make a separate one for this, whats your view, is this the end game?
Wishful thinking OP?
"
Yes, but you never know it is a good chance, you?. |
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By *bernathCouple
over a year ago
Gloucestershire |
"I already said it in my other brexit post, but I wanted to make a separate one for this, whats your view, is this the end game?
Wishful thinking OP?
Yes, but you never know it is a good chance, you?."
Parties rise, parties fall, only to rise again, thats the nature of british politics.
I can only say this, what was an internal argument for the tories, has spilt over and has threatened our entire society.
They are moving away from the brink, TM has made the decision to stop listening to the extreme elements of her party, and finally accepted that compromise, which should have been done far earlier is the only way to reach a brexit for all. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Where is a third party. .The votes are waiting surely !"
Greens. The worst that could happen is we get some more environmental protection and reduce our emissions. |
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"I already said it in my other brexit post, but I wanted to make a separate one for this, whats your view, is this the end game? .
The only poll that matters is the one returned on the day of the election . Everything else in bwtween is irrelevant
It is difficult to see how any financially reponsible person would contemplate voting Labour ( especially when you read the thoughts of the shadow chancellor ) .
A Labour government would simply destroy the economy and make all of us a lot worse off .
The national debt was 960 billion in April 2010 about when Cameron came to office, it's currently at 1.76 trillion so it has almost doubled under the Tory party.... for reference it was 347 billion in 96/97 so the Torys have added a whole lot more in 9 years than the labour party did in 12-13 years, despite austerity, at least we didn't lose so much under labour did we? We had thousands more emergency service personnel... Books in schools, local council funding cut to the bone, roads in a shit state etc etc etc"
People keep bringing up the rise of the national debt as proof the Tories are no longer the financially responsible party but wasn't a lot of the borrowing to cover the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis which wasn't caused by either government, just the Americans? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Where is a third party. .The votes are waiting surely !
Greens. The worst that could happen is we get some more environmental protection and reduce our emissions. "
The greens are in ascendency in Europe and are the third biggest party in Germany.
We are behind the curve in this green wave .The next election after all the brexit nonsense is over will see a green surge as people focus on the real issue in front of us .That being the protection of the only home we've ever known .
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
People keep bringing up the rise of the national debt as proof the Tories are no longer the financially responsible party but wasn't a lot of the borrowing to cover the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis which wasn't caused by either government, just the Americans? "
Conservative chancellors since 2010 have borrowed more money from the markets than every Labour chancellor in history combined. The interest alone on that debt is now in the region of £50 billion a year. |
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I voted out in the hope that it would put an end to the Tories and the toxic neoliberal Thatcherite/Reaganomic unregulated capitalist economic model we have been following for the last 45 years and a return to a properly regulated mixed market economy. My vote may have been worthwhile, but I am not going to celebrate yet as the Tories are very good at shifting the blame for their mismanagement to those who oppose everything the Tories do. |
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"
People keep bringing up the rise of the national debt as proof the Tories are no longer the financially responsible party but wasn't a lot of the borrowing to cover the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis which wasn't caused by either government, just the Americans?
Conservative chancellors since 2010 have borrowed more money from the markets than every Labour chancellor in history combined. The interest alone on that debt is now in the region of £50 billion a year."
Funding a huge structural deficit, any govt would have had to do the same. |
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"Funding a huge structural deficit, any govt would have had to do the same. "
Really?
National debt in 2010 was just over 700 billion. In the last 9 years the tories have added 1 TRILLION to that while cutting spending on EVERYTHING to fund tax cuts to corporations and the super rich! There is nothing 'structural' about anything done by this bunch of thieves beyond privatising profit for the top 1% and nationalising debt for the rest!
FFS it was announced this week that part of the voluntary 'Blood Bike's' service (where bikers give up their time for free to move emergency blood from NBTS Blood Banks to hospitals) is no longer needed because the service was put out to tender (that 'Blood Bike's' was banned from bidding for) has been awarded to a private company at a cost of £14 million!
This government and the pig fuckers before it only has 2 objectives. Stay in power at all costs, and use its time in power to transfer wealth from the majority to their super rich backers! |
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"
People keep bringing up the rise of the national debt as proof the Tories are no longer the financially responsible party but wasn't a lot of the borrowing to cover the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis which wasn't caused by either government, just the Americans?
Conservative chancellors since 2010 have borrowed more money from the markets than every Labour chancellor in history combined. The interest alone on that debt is now in the region of £50 billion a year."
Yes, but what I was asking was WHY that money was borrowed? Was it bad management of the economy by the Tories or was it forced on them to combat the issues of that global crisis? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
People keep bringing up the rise of the national debt as proof the Tories are no longer the financially responsible party but wasn't a lot of the borrowing to cover the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis which wasn't caused by either government, just the Americans?
Conservative chancellors since 2010 have borrowed more money from the markets than every Labour chancellor in history combined. The interest alone on that debt is now in the region of £50 billion a year.
Yes, but what I was asking was WHY that money was borrowed? Was it bad management of the economy by the Tories or was it forced on them to combat the issues of that global crisis? "
They borrowed it to keep the country running. It's a combo of reasons.
1, bad management
2, austerity didn't save then enough
3, refusal to close tax loops for the ultra rich
4, 600/800 million pounds every week that we are flushing down the Brexit toilet. |
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"Funding a huge structural deficit, any govt would have had to do the same.
Really?
National debt in 2010 was just over 700 billion. In the last 9 years the tories have added 1 TRILLION to that while cutting spending on EVERYTHING to fund tax cuts to corporations and the super rich! There is nothing 'structural' about anything done by this bunch of thieves beyond privatising profit for the top 1% and nationalising debt for the rest!
FFS it was announced this week that part of the voluntary 'Blood Bike's' service (where bikers give up their time for free to move emergency blood from NBTS Blood Banks to hospitals) is no longer needed because the service was put out to tender (that 'Blood Bike's' was banned from bidding for) has been awarded to a private company at a cost of £14 million!
This government and the pig fuckers before it only has 2 objectives. Stay in power at all costs, and use its time in power to transfer wealth from the majority to their super rich backers!"
Post 2008 the deficit in each year was huge, largely as a result of the financial crash and peaking at over £100bn in 2010. The only way to fund it was through increased debt. At the same time public spending was cut to try and bridge the gap and that is where the left and right diverge, Labour would have borrowed more to try and stimulate more growth and therefore more tax revenue, Tories chose to cut. Whatever way, there was a big shortfall that could only be funded by a huge increase in public borrowing. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
The money supply dried out when the banks discovered their debt piles.
Governments can borrow at lower rates than business, so it made sense for borrowing to increase.
That was the time to invest in major capital projects.
The opposite happened.
The Tories cut back drastically on capital spending.
They also stripped away the spending power of those most likely to spend during a recession through their austerity measures.
The recovery as a result was very weak. They ch0ked it off.
Where did all that borrowing go?
To fund the reduction in taxes for those at the top.
Shrink the state and redistribute wealth from the many to the few.
Ideology gone mad.
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"The money supply dried out when the banks discovered their debt piles.
Governments can borrow at lower rates than business, so it made sense for borrowing to increase.
That was the time to invest in major capital projects.
The opposite happened.
The Tories cut back drastically on capital spending.
They also stripped away the spending power of those most likely to spend during a recession through their austerity measures.
The recovery as a result was very weak. They ch0ked it off.
Where did all that borrowing go?
To fund the reduction in taxes for those at the top.
Shrink the state and redistribute wealth from the many to the few.
Ideology gone mad.
"
A succinct and accurate assessment. Borrowing was needed. Tories chose austerity to reduce the amount needed whereas Labour would have borrowed and spent more to stimulate growth. Circumstance determined the start point, Ideology determined the course we are on. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Greens ....that made me laugh ...ask the people of Brighton...most expensive council around ...wont get in next time around ...has been found out "
What has their MP got to do with the local council?
Where do you get this "information" from anyway?
Let's say it's true, what link is there from the green councillors to the price of running that council? Every area is different and has different running costs. |
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"FFS it was announced this week that part of the voluntary 'Blood Bike's' service (where bikers give up their time for free to move emergency blood from NBTS Blood Banks to hospitals) is no longer needed because the service was put out to tender (that 'Blood Bike's' was banned from bidding for) has been awarded to a private company at a cost of £14 million"
You're badly misrepresenting that story. The bloodbikes carried 0.01% (1,000 trips) of the required jobs, and the contract (14m over 5 years) went to a company that is wholly owned by another NHS Trust. The contract also requires the transport of people which the bloodbikes couldn't do (unless they took them one at a time as a pilly)
They could I suppose allow the BBs to continue running their blood for free, but from a logistics standpoint it makes perfect sense to have a single point of contact, especially when the money is staying in the system. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"i live in a conseveittive area my neighbours vote for them and guess what they always will tossers"
I used to live in a Tory stronghold. But in the last election it flipped to a massive labour win |
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A Brexit dividend at last!