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What is Brexit actually about?
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By *ethnmelv OP Couple
over a year ago
Chudleigh |
For over 3 years we have been genuinely trying to understand what Brexit is for. Some Brexit voting friends have said its about Sovereignty, but what does that actually mean? They couldn’t explain it, but it seems related to ‘taking back control’, again they couldn’t explain this.
I suppose our concern is that absolutely none of the people who might ‘gain this control’ are people that we would trust with our futures, so where do we go?
Is Brexit’s real failure that it has not created any leaders? (Please don’t conflate Farage with Leader, he is a chancer of the highest order).
Where have real Leaders gone? |
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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago
Huddersfield /derby cinemas |
I think brexit is about us taking contoll back from the unelected MEPs , you know the ones , the unelected MEPs who we went to the polls to elect last week ,,, or it might be about controlling our borders , apart , that is , from the only place where we (UK) has a land border with the EU (Eire) , where apparently we don't want a border |
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By *ethnmelv OP Couple
over a year ago
Chudleigh |
"I think brexit is about us taking contoll back from the unelected MEPs , you know the ones , the unelected MEPs who we went to the polls to elect last week ,,, or it might be about controlling our borders , apart , that is , from the only place where we (UK) has a land border with the EU (Eire) , where apparently we don't want a border "
Ok, unelected MEPs? Didn’t we vote Farage et al in? I’m confused, how does this help? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I voted to leave because further integration into the European Union is inevitable and it's only going to lead us and the rest of Europe towards an authoritarian state.
One leader, one army, one state.
People like to believe history is linear, it's not. History repeats. Empires rise and fall, it's just the natural order of life.
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By *ethnmelv OP Couple
over a year ago
Chudleigh |
"I voted to leave because further integration into the European Union is inevitable and it's only going to lead us and the rest of Europe towards an authoritarian state.
One leader, one army, one state.
People like to believe history is linear, it's not. History repeats. Empires rise and fall, it's just the natural order of life.
"
But how is that actually going to happen? The EU doesn’t look like it could achieve any of these things, certainly not without National approval. I don’t deny your concern, I just don’t see it being feasible. It is much more likely that we would have our own local dictator. Surely Wanting Brexit shouldn’t just be about avoiding ‘negatives’?
So many positives have come out of the EU and our membership, surely actually embracing it as opposed to sniping from the margins is amore effective way to get what we want? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Just look into Jean-Claude Juncker, the current President and then look into what he supports.
The TTIP being the main one.
This man wants further sovereign powers to be given up by EU nations and a European army created.
You can read his interviews which clearly show his ambition for the EU.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"An entire country leaves a union because you disagree with the opinions of one person in Europe?
Lololololololol
Utterly mad.
"
Merkel and Macron are both open and in support of what Juncker wants. It's not just one person at all but two of the major players in the European Union alongside the European People's Party which supports him fully.
An entire country leaves a union because a majority in a democratically held referendum voted to do so.
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Okay, so now you are expanding on your reasons.
Fair enough.
Still all about fear though isn't it?
Just like the fear the UK would be forced to sign up to the Euro.
Just like the fear the UK would be forced to sign up to Schengen.
Now it is fear the UK will be forced to join an army.
All complete bollocks, national policy driven by fear.
Welcome to Little Britain 2019.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Okay, so now you are expanding on your reasons.
Fair enough.
Still all about fear though isn't it?
Just like the fear the UK would be forced to sign up to the Euro.
Just like the fear the UK would be forced to sign up to Schengen.
Now it is fear the UK will be forced to join an army.
All complete bollocks, national policy driven by fear.
Welcome to Little Britain 2019.
"
Yawn...zzz, that's not an argument.
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I thought it was crystal clear!
It's about removing EU protections for workers and the environment. And it's about Johnson and the richest Tories avoiding paying tax.
That it was funded by the US and Russia is irrelevant. It only benefits them by making us and the EU weaker entities, and puts UK in a subservient position in trade negotiations. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
The UK no longer has the capability to engage unilaterally in conflict.
This is stated in the last two defence reviews, which state that any future engagement can only be in conjunction with a larger partner such as the United States.
The same goes for other European countries.
Along comes Trump and starts making noises about whether the US is committed to the security of Europe.
Trump's objective is to destabilise European unity and weaken the EU as a global bloc.
On that front, he and Putin are very much on the same side - a weaker Europe strengthens their hands.
Merkel and Macron are calling his bluff.
By removing itself from the EU, the UK also removes itself from having influence on the debate.
But it does not change the reality - the UK no longer has the capability of acting alone militarily.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Okay, so now you are expanding on your reasons.
Fair enough.
Still all about fear though isn't it?
Just like the fear the UK would be forced to sign up to the Euro.
Just like the fear the UK would be forced to sign up to Schengen.
Now it is fear the UK will be forced to join an army.
All complete bollocks, national policy driven by fear.
Welcome to Little Britain 2019.
Yawn...zzz, that's not an argument.
"
Of course it is, one of the main driving forces behind Brexit is the "fear" mongering that we will be dragged more and more into the political union giving up control of our armed forces etc.
Fear and scare mongering like this in the past has been proven to be utter bollocks as the points listed and no matter what Junker would like, we have to agree to anything to change.
So yes it was a very valued argument, just one that you don't like to admit is true.
 |
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By *ethnmelv OP Couple
over a year ago
Chudleigh |
"Just look into Jean-Claude Juncker, the current President and then look into what he supports.
The TTIP being the main one.
This man wants further sovereign powers to be given up by EU nations and a European army created.
You can read his interviews which clearly show his ambition for the EU.
"
You know he is being replaced in October, in a quite democatic way... |
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By *ammskiMan
over a year ago
lytham st.annes |
"Just look into Jean-Claude Juncker, the current President and then look into what he supports.
The TTIP being the main one.
This man wants further sovereign powers to be given up by EU nations and a European army created.
You can read his interviews which clearly show his ambition for the EU.
You know he is being replaced in October, in a quite democatic way..."
Ha ha ha ha you’re the last person to speak about democracy |
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By *ethnmelv OP Couple
over a year ago
Chudleigh |
Interesting comment - how am I ‘the last person to speak about democracy’? Am I Pol Pot, Idi Amen, Bashar al Asad, Papa Doc Duvalier, Stalin, Hitler, Mao Zedong..., what point are you actually making? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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BREXIT is about independence from the European Union, nothing more and nothing less. We become an island again, an island with plenty to offer to the rest of the world. Anybody who thinks that if we leave without a deal, we will not be trading with the EU in less than 24 hours is either bonkers, or so liberally driven that it is impossible to wander from that narrative.
Queenie and her brood will have to get their skates on, as they will be instrumental in helping us secure better deals with our commonwealth. But other than that, BREXIT, when it eventually happens, will be a success, deal or no deal. (Bloody hell im beginning to talk like Noel Edmonds). |
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By *ethnmelv OP Couple
over a year ago
Chudleigh |
"BREXIT is about independence from the European Union, nothing more and nothing less. We become an island again, an island with plenty to offer to the rest of the world. Anybody who thinks that if we leave without a deal, we will not be trading with the EU in less than 24 hours is either bonkers, or so liberally driven that it is impossible to wander from that narrative.
Queenie and her brood will have to get their skates on, as they will be instrumental in helping us secure better deals with our commonwealth. But other than that, BREXIT, when it eventually happens, will be a success, deal or no deal. (Bloody hell im beginning to talk like Noel Edmonds)."
Brexit was allegedly going to bring an upside to Britain - where, and when, is that happening? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Every option for Brexit is about degrees of economic and social dislocation.
It's a truly bizarre spectacle watching Conservative Party candidates trying to outdo each other as to who can deliver the greatest harm.
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"Every option for Brexit is about degrees of economic and social dislocation.
It's a truly bizarre spectacle watching Conservative Party candidates trying to outdo each other as to who can deliver the greatest harm.
"
They're Conservatives. It's not bizzare. |
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"Every option for Brexit is about degrees of economic and social dislocation.
It's a truly bizarre spectacle watching Conservative Party candidates trying to outdo each other as to who can deliver the greatest harm.
They're Conservatives. It's not bizzare."
What do I know? I can't even spell bizarre when it's right in front of me.  |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
There is no upside to Brexit. There never was an upside and there never will be.
The rich and the powerful are ideologically wedded to austerity and they have effectively groomed (brainwashed) millions of people into believing that the disasters brought upon the U.K. are not because of austerity - but because of foreigners - immigrants, Muslims, the EU -take your pick.
Unfortunately, the IK has a long and twisted history of its plebs doffing their caps and wholesomely believing the rich and the powerful.
Whatever your thoughts about Brexit and it’s nuances, just take a look at the bigger picture and think who will benefit most from Brexit. On the global stage the beneficiaries are the United States and Russia. The losers are the U.K. and the EU. If the reasons for this need explaining then your brainwashing is irreversible. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I voted to leave because further integration into the European Union is inevitable and it's only going to lead us and the rest of Europe towards an authoritarian state.
One leader, one army, one state.
People like to believe history is linear, it's not. History repeats. Empires rise and fall, it's just the natural order of life.
"
You're incorrect there, history being cyclical is a skin deep analysis of human politics. Everytime a group of humans and their civilisation becomes dominant, then ceeds this dominance, there are different and unique reasons why. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"BREXIT is about independence from the European Union"
I stopped reading here. If the rest of your post is based on the notion that the EU rules over the UK. Then it's not worth reading.
Where do people get these weird notions from? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Let us be clear, BREXIT hasn’t happened yet, whatever is going wrong now is because of uncertainty. This uncertainty is direct result of remainers doing their level best to hold up the process in the belief that they can stop it from happening.
Thank the gods for the intervention of Nigel and the BREXIT Party. I just hope that he/they are laying the foundations needed to fight a general election. Because that is the reality, incompetent politicians cannot agree and we will have to drag our arses once more to the polling stations.  |
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"There is no upside to Brexit. There never was an upside and there never will be.
The rich and the powerful are ideologically wedded to austerity and they have effectively groomed (brainwashed) millions of people into believing that the disasters brought upon the U.K. are not because of austerity - but because of foreigners - immigrants, Muslims, the EU -take your pick.
Unfortunately, the IK has a long and twisted history of its plebs doffing their caps and wholesomely believing the rich and the powerful.
Whatever your thoughts about Brexit and it’s nuances, just take a look at the bigger picture and think who will benefit most from Brexit. On the global stage the beneficiaries are the United States and Russia. The losers are the U.K. and the EU. If the reasons for this need explaining then your brainwashing is irreversible."
This..
A desparate Cameron sought to assuage his anti EU members never thinking it would go the way it did, essentially a pup was sold and those who thought it would be a show stopper refuse to accept it will never win every top prize..
It was a con based on a hope and a need to blame someone and something.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"BREXIT is about independence from the European Union
I stopped reading here. If the rest of your post is based on the notion that the EU rules over the UK. Then it's not worth reading.
Where do people get these weird notions from?"
It does, but not for much longer.  |
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"Let us be clear, BREXIT hasn’t happened yet, whatever is going wrong now is because of uncertainty. This uncertainty is direct result of remainers doing their level best to hold up the process in the belief that they can stop it from happening.
Thank the gods for the intervention of Nigel and the BREXIT Party. I just hope that he/they are laying the foundations needed to fight a general election. Because that is the reality, incompetent politicians cannot agree and we will have to drag our arses once more to the polling stations. "
Your clearly blind to the fact that it's the Erg and the rabid zealots of the DUP that have played their part too..
Why?
It's almost like watching people blindly following a sat nav as they believe it is never wrong and they set the route and are never wrong either and as they head across the field towards the cliff edge are totally unable to change their decision lest they be wrong..
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I voted to leave because further integration into the European Union is inevitable and it's only going to lead us and the rest of Europe towards an authoritarian state.
One leader, one army, one state.
People like to believe history is linear, it's not. History repeats. Empires rise and fall, it's just the natural order of life.
"
So you think all those counties from the Eastern Bloc who have just got away from a one leader, one army, one state are going to vote to form another one. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"I voted to leave because further integration into the European Union is inevitable and it's only going to lead us and the rest of Europe towards an authoritarian state.
One leader, one army, one state.
People like to believe history is linear, it's not. History repeats. Empires rise and fall, it's just the natural order of life.
"
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"BREXIT is about independence from the European Union
I stopped reading here. If the rest of your post is based on the notion that the EU rules over the UK. Then it's not worth reading.
Where do people get these weird notions from?"
They do have a lot of control over the UK,we are not our own masters as we should be.If they did not have any control then what is the reason for the EU legislators etc |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"BREXIT is about independence from the European Union, nothing more and nothing less. We become an island again, an island with plenty to offer to the rest of the world. Anybody who thinks that if we leave without a deal, we will not be trading with the EU in less than 24 hours is either bonkers, or so liberally driven that it is impossible to wander from that narrative.
Queenie and her brood will have to get their skates on, as they will be instrumental in helping us secure better deals with our commonwealth. But other than that, BREXIT, when it eventually happens, will be a success, deal or no deal. (Bloody hell im beginning to talk like Noel Edmonds)."
Of course we will still be trying to trade with the EU if we leave with no deal. Just with tarrifs on top, lots more red tape, delays and general inefficiencies. Oh, apart from on areas where we legally won’t be able to
-Matt |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"BREXIT is about independence from the European Union
I stopped reading here. If the rest of your post is based on the notion that the EU rules over the UK. Then it's not worth reading.
Where do people get these weird notions from?"
Because they have been groomed into believing that the EU is some big bogeyman. And not a democratic group of 28 different nations and that the U.K. is one of them and has a (very large) say in its operation.
-Matt |
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By *ethnmelv OP Couple
over a year ago
Chudleigh |
"BREXIT is about independence from the European Union
I stopped reading here. If the rest of your post is based on the notion that the EU rules over the UK. Then it's not worth reading.
Where do people get these weird notions from?They do have a lot of control over the UK,we are not our own masters as we should be.If they did not have any control then what is the reason for the EU legislators etc"
What EU legislation do you actually object to? You also know that by agreeing to the common EU regulations, we reduced our own team of legislators and agreed to common standards, therefore allowing us to trade more easily across the EU group? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I voted to leave because further integration into the European Union is inevitable and it's only going to lead us and the rest of Europe towards an authoritarian state.
One leader, one army, one state.
People like to believe history is linear, it's not. History repeats. Empires rise and fall, it's just the natural order of life.
So you think all those counties from the Eastern Bloc who have just got away from a one leader, one army, one state are going to vote to form another one."
I like how none of the brexiteers have tried to spin this or reply to it.
With the exception of the neo-nazi/ethno-nationalist movements in the Eastern Europe, most of their Eurosceptic voters are trying to get the Eurosceptic parties to take a less burn the organisation down stance, and more of a reform movement. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"BREXIT is about independence from the European Union, nothing more and nothing less. We become an island again, an island with plenty to offer to the rest of the world. Anybody who thinks that if we leave without a deal, we will not be trading with the EU in less than 24 hours is either bonkers, or so liberally driven that it is impossible to wander from that narrative.
Queenie and her brood will have to get their skates on, as they will be instrumental in helping us secure better deals with our commonwealth. But other than that, BREXIT, when it eventually happens, will be a success, deal or no deal. (Bloody hell im beginning to talk like Noel Edmonds)."
A.) We technically want be a island nation.
We'll have a border with the EU via the Rep. Of Ireland, therefore, because we share a land border, we are not an island nation.
B.) If you're really relying upon the Queen to help make trade deals, or smooth negotiations over, you're really as deluded as you sound. Seriously, all this goes through the WTO courts, no sweet talking from anyone stops lawyers being like sharks for their county.
I guarantee, all the developing countries in the commonwealth will ask for laxing of visa requirements and long stay privileges for their citizens - like India did. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Ah Little Britain....leaving one group of friends because the other group are bigger and shinier and speak our language and therefore more like us! Thatcher would have laughed at all you silly twerps who are so in love with Nige and Brexit and Trump. She might have been one of the most divisive politicians of the 20th century but she understood tactics unlike you bunch of utter lemmings!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Gotta go work soon, but I’ll just point and laugh at the idiot arguments of the libtards before I go. The EU became a monster, and it was made that way by Germany and France. We never got the same benefits of EU membership because they saw the UK as a cash cow (the city) and a military force (nuclear bombs).
We will be better off out, the further the better. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Gotta go work soon, but I’ll just point and laugh at the idiot arguments of the libtards before I go. The EU became a monster, and it was made that way by Germany and France. We never got the same benefits of EU membership because they saw the UK as a cash cow (the city) and a military force (nuclear bombs).
We will be better off out, the further the better."
What a fantasy world you exist in. How sad. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Okay, so now you are expanding on your reasons.
Fair enough.
Still all about fear though isn't it?
Just like the fear the UK would be forced to sign up to the Euro.
Just like the fear the UK would be forced to sign up to Schengen.
Now it is fear the UK will be forced to join an army.
All complete bollocks, national policy driven by fear.
Welcome to Little Britain 2019.
Yawn...zzz, that's not an argument.
Of course it is, one of the main driving forces behind Brexit is the "fear" mongering that we will be dragged more and more into the political union giving up control of our armed forces etc.
Fear and scare mongering like this in the past has been proven to be utter bollocks as the points listed and no matter what Junker would like, we have to agree to anything to change.
So yes it was a very valued argument, just one that you don't like to admit is true.
"
It's not fear and scaremongering when those leading the European Union Germany and France along with the President of the commission are calling for the further integration and the sovereignty of nations handed over due to the 'fear' of Putin.
Take a look in the mirror and then actually go read the interviews given and the stances of all three. Juncker, Merkel and Macron.
The only thing that will prevent their dreams coming true and this becoming a reality is the shift in Europe to the Right.
Like I said, people like to believe History is linear as it gives them a false sense of "progressive change". It's just not true. If anything History repeats and anyone who has even looked into why Nations rise and fall can see this.
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Just look into Jean-Claude Juncker, the current President and then look into what he supports.
The TTIP being the main one.
This man wants further sovereign powers to be given up by EU nations and a European army created.
You can read his interviews which clearly show his ambition for the EU.
"
Except Juncker is now getting replaced.
TTIP was not ratified.
No EU army without a unanimous vote. We are, however, in the European Rapid Reaction Force and NATO. The latter acts without debate if Article 5 is triggered.
You see what you want. We all do, to some extent but you seem unable to even acknowledge contrary information.
We have previously sent our service personnel to war to support the USA against the will of the majority of the public. Never on behalf of the EU.
If anything it's the UK that is racing towards the dictatorship of a "strong leader" who breaks the rules and doesn't have to worry about votes in Parliament.
You are looking the wrong way.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/04/08/uk/hansard-strong-leader-brexit-poll-gbr-intl/index.html |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"For over 3 years we have been genuinely trying to understand what Brexit is for. Some Brexit voting friends have said its about Sovereignty, but what does that actually mean? They couldn’t explain it, but it seems related to ‘taking back control’, again they couldn’t explain this.
I suppose our concern is that absolutely none of the people who might ‘gain this control’ are people that we would trust with our futures, so where do we go?
Is Brexit’s real failure that it has not created any leaders? (Please don’t conflate Farage with Leader, he is a chancer of the highest order).
Where have real Leaders gone? "
Brexit is about everything except the EU. It's just a peg. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Just look into Jean-Claude Juncker, the current President and then look into what he supports.
The TTIP being the main one.
This man wants further sovereign powers to be given up by EU nations and a European army created.
You can read his interviews which clearly show his ambition for the EU.
You know he is being replaced in October, in a quite democatic way..."
And who are the European Peoples Party putting forward as the man to replace him?
Manfred Weber, another in favour of further integration!
Doh |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Just look into Jean-Claude Juncker, the current President and then look into what he supports.
The TTIP being the main one.
This man wants further sovereign powers to be given up by EU nations and a European army created.
You can read his interviews which clearly show his ambition for the EU.
Except Juncker is now getting replaced.
TTIP was not ratified.
No EU army without a unanimous vote. We are, however, in the European Rapid Reaction Force and NATO. The latter acts without debate if Article 5 is triggered.
You see what you want. We all do, to some extent but you seem unable to even acknowledge contrary information.
We have previously sent our service personnel to war to support the USA against the will of the majority of the public. Never on behalf of the EU.
If anything it's the UK that is racing towards the dictatorship of a "strong leader" who breaks the rules and doesn't have to worry about votes in Parliament.
You are looking the wrong way.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/04/08/uk/hansard-strong-leader-brexit-poll-gbr-intl/index.html"
Oh you misunderstand me. I'm in favour of a Man or Woman of action. All politicians do is talk and talk and nothing gets done.
It's evident from my posts that I'm no fan of democracy. |
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"Gotta go work soon, but I’ll just point and laugh at the idiot arguments of the libtards before I go. The EU became a monster, and it was made that way by Germany and France. We never got the same benefits of EU membership because they saw the UK as a cash cow (the city) and a military force (nuclear bombs).
We will be better off out, the further the better."
So yet again another ranty hate filled post where you make claims and have nothing to back it up except point and laugh, is it any wonder that we are in the state we are with this type of nonsensical tripe.. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"BREXIT is about independence from the European Union
I stopped reading here. If the rest of your post is based on the notion that the EU rules over the UK. Then it's not worth reading.
Where do people get these weird notions from?They do have a lot of control over the UK,we are not our own masters as we should be.If they did not have any control then what is the reason for the EU legislators etc
What EU legislation do you actually object to? You also know that by agreeing to the common EU regulations, we reduced our own team of legislators and agreed to common standards, therefore allowing us to trade more easily across the EU group?"
If we had never joined the EU we would have traded freely with them anyway you can be syre of that and we will again in the future.Reason it is beneficial to both of us.Our legislators our the MP's so in or out that does not change.The cost of Eu courts is crazy so our legal expenditure would be less and British courts could not be overruled by the EU. THIS IS A MAJOR POINT |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Just look into Jean-Claude Juncker, the current President and then look into what he supports.
The TTIP being the main one.
This man wants further sovereign powers to be given up by EU nations and a European army created.
You can read his interviews which clearly show his ambition for the EU.
Except Juncker is now getting replaced.
TTIP was not ratified.
No EU army without a unanimous vote. We are, however, in the European Rapid Reaction Force and NATO. The latter acts without debate if Article 5 is triggered.
You see what you want. We all do, to some extent but you seem unable to even acknowledge contrary information.
We have previously sent our service personnel to war to support the USA against the will of the majority of the public. Never on behalf of the EU.
If anything it's the UK that is racing towards the dictatorship of a "strong leader" who breaks the rules and doesn't have to worry about votes in Parliament.
You are looking the wrong way.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/04/08/uk/hansard-strong-leader-brexit-poll-gbr-intl/index.html
Oh you misunderstand me. I'm in favour of a Man or Woman of action. All politicians do is talk and talk and nothing gets done.
It's evident from my posts that I'm no fan of democracy. "
democracy has its faults but is better than dictatorship as wanted by the left in the labour party |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Just look into Jean-Claude Juncker, the current President and then look into what he supports.
The TTIP being the main one.
This man wants further sovereign powers to be given up by EU nations and a European army created.
You can read his interviews which clearly show his ambition for the EU.
You know he is being replaced in October, in a quite democatic way..."
Ha ha ha you do not understand democracy |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"BREXIT is about independence from the European Union
I stopped reading here. If the rest of your post is based on the notion that the EU rules over the UK. Then it's not worth reading.
Where do people get these weird notions from?They do have a lot of control over the UK,we are not our own masters as we should be.If they did not have any control then what is the reason for the EU legislators etc"
It's called the single market. We trade the right to regulate for the right to tariff free trade. Take back the right to regulate and we lose the tariff free trade.
Look around the world and every country enters into trading blocs with their nearest neighbours, because it makes economic sense.
We want to give up on a $20 trillion free market on our doorstep for . . . what exactly?
Unicorns, it seems.
A $20tn economy leverages much more clout with the world than the $3tn trade bloc the UK wants to become.
Economically, it makes no sense. But then not a lot about Brexit does. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"BREXIT is about independence from the European Union
I stopped reading here. If the rest of your post is based on the notion that the EU rules over the UK. Then it's not worth reading.
Where do people get these weird notions from?They do have a lot of control over the UK,we are not our own masters as we should be.If they did not have any control then what is the reason for the EU legislators etc
What EU legislation do you actually object to? You also know that by agreeing to the common EU regulations, we reduced our own team of legislators and agreed to common standards, therefore allowing us to trade more easily across the EU group?If we had never joined the EU we would have traded freely with them anyway you can be syre of that and we will again in the future.Reason it is beneficial to both of us.Our legislators our the MP's so in or out that does not change.The cost of Eu courts is crazy so our legal expenditure would be less and British courts could not be overruled by the EU. THIS IS A MAJOR POINT"
YES IT IS A MAJOR POINT - AND ONE THAT YOU MISUNDERSTAND.
If the U.K. had never joined the EU and wanted to trade with the EU - free trade or not. All exports would have to be EU compliant in terms of originations and standards of quality control. These origination rules and quality control regulations are the same ones that people like say we have no say in. But you are wrong. As long as we are in the EU we have say and input into EU regulations and had we never joined we would just have had to adhere to any rules and regulations that the EU dictated because they are the larger economy.
Similarly, any trade agreement (free trade or otherwise) would be subject to an ultimate Court in the event of dispute. As the larger Party, the EU would have decided which Court that would be.
You are like many Brexiters living in a fantasy world that bears no resemblance to the real world. You just need to think things through a little to realise how much power the EU has compared to us. We never have held all the cards and we never will. Membership of the EU has enabled us to punch above our weight for decades.
Don’t worry though - it seems like our true place in the world will soon be realised. It will for many be the WTF moment to trump all WTF moments lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
So Brexit seems to be a fear bad stuff could happen, rather than it is happening. And a fear that if bad stuff does happen, and the failsafes that are in place don't work, we won't be able to exit then. So let's exit now.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So what are you in favour of?
A Fascist Technocracy.
Not even funny, stop being an idiot and read some history about fascism - spoiler alert, it doesn’t work well for anyone "
I'm deadly serious. I know what Fascism is. Big fan of the theory. I'll concede though that in practice it hasn't been the best outcome but like most political theories it does go against human nature.
The very reason why Communism will never work either.
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By *ethnmelv OP Couple
over a year ago
Chudleigh |
"So what are you in favour of?
A Fascist Technocracy.
Not even funny, stop being an idiot and read some history about fascism - spoiler alert, it doesn’t work well for anyone
I'm deadly serious. I know what Fascism is. Big fan of the theory. I'll concede though that in practice it hasn't been the best outcome but like most political theories it does go against human nature.
The very reason why Communism will never work either.
"
Sorry, you can’t be a fan of fascism in theory - it killed many people and ruined the lives of many more. I don’t disagree on Communism, but neither are ‘theories’ that anyone should be proud of espousing  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So what are you in favour of?
A Fascist Technocracy.
Not even funny, stop being an idiot and read some history about fascism - spoiler alert, it doesn’t work well for anyone
I'm deadly serious. I know what Fascism is. Big fan of the theory. I'll concede though that in practice it hasn't been the best outcome but like most political theories it does go against human nature.
The very reason why Communism will never work either.
"
More respect to you than all the others who support facist style policies, who then bawk at the label. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"So what are you in favour of?
A Fascist Technocracy.
Hardly an original idea.I believe Orwell explored it in his last book. "
Indeed he did. I much prefer Animal Farm myself though. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
More respect to you than all the others who support facist style policies, who then bawk at the label."
I see no reason to feel shame or hide my political stance.
I'm also in favour of direct democracy on a local level but in the current world of Gloablism I can't see how it would be viable. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"For over 3 years we have been genuinely trying to understand what Brexit is for. Some Brexit voting friends have said its about Sovereignty, but what does that actually mean? They couldn’t explain it, but it seems related to ‘taking back control’, again they couldn’t explain this.
I suppose our concern is that absolutely none of the people who might ‘gain this control’ are people that we would trust with our futures, so where do we go?
Is Brexit’s real failure that it has not created any leaders? (Please don’t conflate Farage with Leader, he is a chancer of the highest order).
Where have real Leaders gone? "
For a lot near me, brexit was brought about by being st the sharp end of austerity and welfare cuts, along with being victims of neoliberalism |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Sorry, you can’t be a fan of fascism in theory - it killed many people and ruined the lives of many more. I don’t disagree on Communism, but neither are ‘theories’ that anyone should be proud of espousing "
Communism is celebrated and supported globally. Communism has killed more people than Fascism ever has. But that's besides the point as it could be argued that Capitalism has killed more people than any other system other than feudalism perhaps.
Any thing can look good in theory it's whether or not it works in practice.
|
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Just look into Jean-Claude Juncker, the current President and then look into what he supports.
The TTIP being the main one.
This man wants further sovereign powers to be given up by EU nations and a European army created.
You can read his interviews which clearly show his ambition for the EU.
Except Juncker is now getting replaced.
TTIP was not ratified.
No EU army without a unanimous vote. We are, however, in the European Rapid Reaction Force and NATO. The latter acts without debate if Article 5 is triggered.
You see what you want. We all do, to some extent but you seem unable to even acknowledge contrary information.
We have previously sent our service personnel to war to support the USA against the will of the majority of the public. Never on behalf of the EU.
If anything it's the UK that is racing towards the dictatorship of a "strong leader" who breaks the rules and doesn't have to worry about votes in Parliament.
You are looking the wrong way.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/04/08/uk/hansard-strong-leader-brexit-poll-gbr-intl/index.html
Oh you misunderstand me. I'm in favour of a Man or Woman of action. All politicians do is talk and talk and nothing gets done.
It's evident from my posts that I'm no fan of democracy. "
Ah. The Centaur strategy. Ignore everything that contradicts what you said; TTIP, NATO, fighting wars for the USA. The fact that Juncker is being replaced by someone chosen by the governments that we elected.
What happens if the dictator wants closer union with the EU?
What if the dictator wants lots of immigration and the intermingling of ethnicities so that we only have brown babies?
What if the dictator wants us all to be Muslim?
Would that be OK?  |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
Sorry, you can’t be a fan of fascism in theory - it killed many people and ruined the lives of many more. I don’t disagree on Communism, but neither are ‘theories’ that anyone should be proud of espousing
Communism is celebrated and supported globally. Communism has killed more people than Fascism ever has. But that's besides the point as it could be argued that Capitalism has killed more people than any other system other than feudalism perhaps.
Any thing can look good in theory it's whether or not it works in practice.
"
You do understand that people who despise fascism can also despise communism? It isn't either or.
At the very least the logic of communism is egalitarian.
The point of facism is to place one group, "your group" above all others.
That's why Communism has had the opportunity to fuck up globally as it is a universally failed method of government.
Facism has had an outsized success in bringing death and destruction considering how small and selfish it is.
Did you miss that part of the indoctrination class? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
You do understand that people who despise fascism can also despise communism? It isn't either or.
At the very least the logic of communism is egalitarian.
The point of facism is to place one group, "your group" above all others.
That's why Communism has had the opportunity to fuck up globally as it is a universally failed method of government.
Facism has had an outsized success in bringing death and destruction considering how small and selfish it is.
Did you miss that part of the indoctrination class? "
You do understand that people respond to what's being said to them don't you?
The first part of my reply was aimed at this part of what was said to me "that anyone should be proud of espousing"
It wasn't a question of either/or.
The first priority of Fascism is the state, if the state is stable and healthy so is the individual.
If you're going try and tell me what Fascism is please actually read a book.
Communism fucked up and killed millions upon millions of people.
So did Fascism, so does any form of government. Shit happens.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Ah. The Centaur strategy. Ignore everything that contradicts what you said; TTIP, NATO, fighting wars for the USA. The fact that Juncker is being replaced by someone chosen by the governments that we elected.
What happens if the dictator wants closer union with the EU?
What if the dictator wants lots of immigration and the intermingling of ethnicities so that we only have brown babies?
What if the dictator wants us all to be Muslim?
Would that be OK? "
TTIP was put on the back burner due to Trump. Trump has since offered to reopen negotiations as of 2018.
An defensive and responsive agreement in regards to humanitarian and global conflicts isn't the same as a European army, details which haven't even been released.
As for fighting wars for America, I was no supporter of the Iraq war or intervention in the Middle East at all.
As you said in your previous reply just because someone is against an EU army doesn't mean they aren't against wars for America or Nato.
I wouldn't support a dictatorship which wanted any of those things.
Not my cup of tea. |
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By *ethnmelv OP Couple
over a year ago
Chudleigh |
"
You do understand that people who despise fascism can also despise communism? It isn't either or.
At the very least the logic of communism is egalitarian.
The point of facism is to place one group, "your group" above all others.
That's why Communism has had the opportunity to fuck up globally as it is a universally failed method of government.
Facism has had an outsized success in bringing death and destruction considering how small and selfish it is.
Did you miss that part of the indoctrination class?
You do understand that people respond to what's being said to them don't you?
The first part of my reply was aimed at this part of what was said to me "that anyone should be proud of espousing"
It wasn't a question of either/or.
The first priority of Fascism is the state, if the state is stable and healthy so is the individual.
If you're going try and tell me what Fascism is please actually read a book.
Communism fucked up and killed millions upon millions of people.
So did Fascism, so does any form of government. Shit happens.
"
Pretty sure that Communism and Fascism hold the record for the past 120 years. Just saying you only support the theory doesn’t absolve you of recognising the insanity of actually promoting either approach? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Pretty sure that Communism and Fascism hold the record for the past 120 years. Just saying you only support the theory doesn’t absolve you of recognising the insanity of actually promoting either approach?"
Hold the record for what? Death? You'll find that's capitalism.
No insanity on my part, I believe like any sane adult that I am able to think critically and detach myself from the emotionally driven arguments against Fascism to look past the horrors and read further into the ideals and policies to decide where I stand on Fascism as a political ideology.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Just look into Jean-Claude Juncker, the current President and then look into what he supports.
The TTIP being the main one.
This man wants further sovereign powers to be given up by EU nations and a European army created.
You can read his interviews which clearly show his ambition for the EU.
Except Juncker is now getting replaced.
TTIP was not ratified.
No EU army without a unanimous vote. We are, however, in the European Rapid Reaction Force and NATO. The latter acts without debate if Article 5 is triggered.
You see what you want. We all do, to some extent but you seem unable to even acknowledge contrary information.
We have previously sent our service personnel to war to support the USA against the will of the majority of the public. Never on behalf of the EU.
If anything it's the UK that is racing towards the dictatorship of a "strong leader" who breaks the rules and doesn't have to worry about votes in Parliament.
You are looking the wrong way.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/04/08/uk/hansard-strong-leader-brexit-poll-gbr-intl/index.html
Oh you misunderstand me. I'm in favour of a Man or Woman of action. All politicians do is talk and talk and nothing gets done.
It's evident from my posts that I'm no fan of democracy.
Ah. The Centaur strategy. Ignore everything that contradicts what you said; TTIP, NATO, fighting wars for the USA. The fact that Juncker is being replaced by someone chosen by the governments that we elected.
What happens if the dictator wants closer union with the EU?
What if the dictator wants lots of immigration and the intermingling of ethnicities so that we only have brown babies?
What if the dictator wants us all to be Muslim?
Would that be OK? "
We have already got that with the LibLabCon. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Over 500 nuclear bombs have been detonated in the airspace around us, because of a willy-waving competition between capitalism and communism.
The release of toxins was enormous. The death toll can never be known for certain, but the calculations suggest many millions will have died prematurely. The fall-out still survives in our food chain to this day.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think brexit is about us taking contoll back from the unelected MEPs , you know the ones , the unelected MEPs who we went to the polls to elect last week ,,, or it might be about controlling our borders , apart , that is , from the only place where we (UK) has a land border with the EU (Eire) , where apparently we don't want a border "
MEP's are directly elected, however it is the likes of Jean Claude Junker and Donald Tusk who we do not elect.
They are elected by MEP's - and that particular pairs tenureship is coming to an end - which is why it's unlikely that we'll be granted a further extension to article 50 beyond 31st October, because after that date, the EU then begins the process of choosing their replacements - and they're not really going to want us having any influence on the vote given that we're leaving |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Over 500 nuclear bombs have been detonated in the airspace around us, because of a willy-waving competition between capitalism and communism.
The release of toxins was enormous. The death toll can never be known for certain, but the calculations suggest many millions will have died prematurely. The fall-out still survives in our food chain to this day.
"
Great bit of information that.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Over 500 nuclear bombs have been detonated in the airspace around us, because of a willy-waving competition between capitalism and communism.
The release of toxins was enormous. The death toll can never be known for certain, but the calculations suggest many millions will have died prematurely. The fall-out still survives in our food chain to this day.
"
Yet people are still living longer than ever before. Strange that... |
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"I voted to leave because further integration into the European Union is inevitable and it's only going to lead us and the rest of Europe towards an authoritarian state.
One leader, one army, one state.
People like to believe history is linear, it's not. History repeats. Empires rise and fall, it's just the natural order of life.
"
The EU member states decide what is acceptable change for the EU - just as the remaining 27 states have done for the UK withdrawal agreement. If the UK remains in the EU, it will continue to have the same powers that it always has to agree or disagree with these. All the fear talk of this, that and the other scare stories, which have been produced since before the referendum, are just the results of the constant output from some very rich people who want the UK population to agree to their demands for an exit. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I voted to leave because further integration into the European Union is inevitable and it's only going to lead us and the rest of Europe towards an authoritarian state.
One leader, one army, one state.
People like to believe history is linear, it's not. History repeats. Empires rise and fall, it's just the natural order of life.
The EU member states decide what is acceptable change for the EU - just as the remaining 27 states have done for the UK withdrawal agreement. If the UK remains in the EU, it will continue to have the same powers that it always has to agree or disagree with these. All the fear talk of this, that and the other scare stories, which have been produced since before the referendum, are just the results of the constant output from some very rich people who want the UK population to agree to their demands for an exit."
Can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for next week please? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I voted to leave because further integration into the European Union is inevitable and it's only going to lead us and the rest of Europe towards an authoritarian state.
One leader, one army, one state.
People like to believe history is linear, it's not. History repeats. Empires rise and fall, it's just the natural order of life.
The EU member states decide what is acceptable change for the EU - just as the remaining 27 states have done for the UK withdrawal agreement. If the UK remains in the EU, it will continue to have the same powers that it always has to agree or disagree with these. All the fear talk of this, that and the other scare stories, which have been produced since before the referendum, are just the results of the constant output from some very rich people who want the UK population to agree to their demands for an exit.
Can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for next week please? "
No you are bot getting off that lightly....you can stay and enjoy the brexit shitstorm like the rest of us....no running off to your personal island fiefdom for you my lad  |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
You do understand that people who despise fascism can also despise communism? It isn't either or.
At the very least the logic of communism is egalitarian.
The point of facism is to place one group, "your group" above all others.
That's why Communism has had the opportunity to fuck up globally as it is a universally failed method of government.
Facism has had an outsized success in bringing death and destruction considering how small and selfish it is.
Did you miss that part of the indoctrination class?
You do understand that people respond to what's being said to them don't you?
The first part of my reply was aimed at this part of what was said to me "that anyone should be proud of espousing"
It wasn't a question of either/or.
The first priority of Fascism is the state, if the state is stable and healthy so is the individual.
If you're going try and tell me what Fascism is please actually read a book.
Communism fucked up and killed millions upon millions of people.
So did Fascism, so does any form of government. Shit happens.
"
Your teenager's need to try brag about your intelligence does not help your argument.
I've done plenty of reading thank you.
'The point of facism is to place one group, "your group" above all others.'
You decided to call it 'the state'.
If you cannot see the equivalence then you really are not as smart as you seem to think you are.
Facism the state, or race, or any other in group above individuals. You may be happy being directed to live for the greater glory of the group but most people want to live their own lives as they choose.
Fascism demands conformity. Individual expression is not tolerated except in the service of the the group.
The system is rigidly hierarchical with a single leader who is all powerful.
All other groups are inferior and treated as a threat. They must be subjugated for the benefit of the group. A few other groups may be worthy of assimilation but that is the exception.
Fascism has also fucked up and killed millions of people in wars and internal purges.
Communism has killed a few million more. What a dumb competition to try to be "winning". They are two sides of the same coin. At least the crappy Communist option is supposed to be trying to be egalitarian. Fascism isn't even pretending. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
Ah. The Centaur strategy. Ignore everything that contradicts what you said; TTIP, NATO, fighting wars for the USA. The fact that Juncker is being replaced by someone chosen by the governments that we elected.
What happens if the dictator wants closer union with the EU?
What if the dictator wants lots of immigration and the intermingling of ethnicities so that we only have brown babies?
What if the dictator wants us all to be Muslim?
Would that be OK?
TTIP was put on the back burner due to Trump. Trump has since offered to reopen negotiations as of 2018.
An defensive and responsive agreement in regards to humanitarian and global conflicts isn't the same as a European army, details which haven't even been released.
As for fighting wars for America, I was no supporter of the Iraq war or intervention in the Middle East at all.
As you said in your previous reply just because someone is against an EU army doesn't mean they aren't against wars for America or Nato.
I wouldn't support a dictatorship which wanted any of those things.
Not my cup of tea. "
You are complaining about an international trade agreement that was not progressed because the negotiations failed and that Trump has offered to reopen by threatening tariff rises on steel and cars?
No European army will exist with our troops unless we agree to it. By what conspiracy theory do you think that will we be compelled to agree?
Our government has of its own volition as a gone to war at the behest of the USA and against the will of its people yet you seem to think that the EU is a bigger threat to our defence independence.
The utter contradictory nonsense of the phrase "I wouldn't support a dictatorship which wanted any of those things" is just too delightful |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
No you are bot getting off that lightly....you can stay and enjoy the brexit shitstorm like the rest of us....no running off to your personal island fiefdom for you my lad "
Damn it you've caught me! I do want to follow John Cleese to that lovely island of his  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Ah. The Centaur strategy. Ignore everything that contradicts what you said; TTIP, NATO, fighting wars for the USA. The fact that Juncker is being replaced by someone chosen by the governments that we elected.
What happens if the dictator wants closer union with the EU?
What if the dictator wants lots of immigration and the intermingling of ethnicities so that we only have brown babies?
What if the dictator wants us all to be Muslim?
Would that be OK?
TTIP was put on the back burner due to Trump. Trump has since offered to reopen negotiations as of 2018.
An defensive and responsive agreement in regards to humanitarian and global conflicts isn't the same as a European army, details which haven't even been released.
As for fighting wars for America, I was no supporter of the Iraq war or intervention in the Middle East at all.
As you said in your previous reply just because someone is against an EU army doesn't mean they aren't against wars for America or Nato.
I wouldn't support a dictatorship which wanted any of those things.
Not my cup of tea.
You are complaining about an international trade agreement that was not progressed because the negotiations failed and that Trump has offered to reopen by threatening tariff rises on steel and cars?
No European army will exist with our troops unless we agree to it. By what conspiracy theory do you think that will we be compelled to agree?
Our government has of its own volition as a gone to war at the behest of the USA and against the will of its people yet you seem to think that the EU is a bigger threat to our defence independence.
The utter contradictory nonsense of the phrase "I wouldn't support a dictatorship which wanted any of those things" is just too delightful "
Trump called off the TTIP negotiations and started a tariff war with Europe. In 2018 he is reportedly said to of been open to the idea of coming back to the table.
Well done you've shown that you haven't kept up with current events.
The fact that Trump shelved TTIP doesn't mean it is dead. Merkel and Macron are waiting on a more favourable president.
I haven't disputed that MPs wouldn't have to agree to us joining a European army. But to suggest that MPs wouldn't agree to it without asking the public first is naive considering you've brought up how the government went against the will of the people in regards to the Iraq war.
Kind fell into that one.
Going back to your first post and the last paragraphs regarding the deaths brought about by Fascism and Communism.
I've acknowledged this, there's no need to repeat what I have said.
Brings nothing to the table.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I really wish there was an edit button.
I've noticed that you've thrown around "egalitarian" while condemning Fascism for not believing in the social construct brought about due to religious thought so long ago.
Fascism and fascists do not believe in such a man made construct. We believe in the natural order which is tooth and claw.
In other words; equality is a false God. It is not found in nature.
It's funny because you speak of the individual yet you would like the individual to be the same as everyone else in this world through laws.
Conformity? That's following the herd as it runs off the edge of a cliff while holding onto egalitarianism.
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I really wish there was an edit button.
I've noticed that you've thrown around "egalitarian" while condemning Fascism for not believing in the social construct brought about due to religious thought so long ago.
Fascism and fascists do not believe in such a man made construct. We believe in the natural order which is tooth and claw.
In other words; equality is a false God. It is not found in nature.
It's funny because you speak of the individual yet you would like the individual to be the same as everyone else in this world through laws.
Conformity? That's following the herd as it runs off the edge of a cliff while holding onto egalitarianism.
"
You carry on with your Ladybird book of Fascist rainbows.
Bless |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Rude, childish, infantile and poorly read... "
Tell me about it. Sara could of at least tried to refute what was said rather than resorting to childish behaviour.
Guess the truth hurts those that fear the truth. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
You carry on with your Ladybird book of Fascist rainbows.
Bless
Read ####. "
You are actually advocating a book written by a neo-Nazi.
You are pretty much the only type of person I report on here |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
You carry on with your Ladybird book of Fascist rainbows.
Bless
Read ####.
You are actually advocating a book written by a neo-Nazi.
You are pretty much the only type of person I report on here "
Awwwwww, internet man bad.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Brexit is a collective national shooting ourselves in the foot, when really we all we needed to do was wait patiently for the EU to complete it's own personal Kamikazi attack when it created the Euro
There does that explain it. |
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By *ky19Man
over a year ago
Plymouth |
"What is Brexit about?"
It's about this - Independence.
Someone made a great point: "Are you sick and tired of hearing about brexit?
Instead of using the word brexit, I will use the word independence."
This is exactly how I feel.
I'm glad America didn't have to put up with this when they wanted their Independence. They realised they were better off without being controlled by, er, us! They even had to go to war to win their independence. And look what happened to their economy afterwards. They were doomed!!! Oh wait, no they weren't, they went on to become the most prosperous nation in the world I think.
I apologise for the next paragraph but I am going to allow myself for once have a go back, because I've had to put up with a lot of shite like not being invited to parties because I don't want to remain, unlike the cool and intelligent people:
Can you imagine if the US Independence was today, trying to fight but being attacked and sabotaged by "remainers" screaming for a second (but really however many it takes to get the result they want) referendum? Thankfully, the leavers didn't have to put up with any of that, and as history shows, America was better for it. |
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By *ethnmelv OP Couple
over a year ago
Chudleigh |
"
Rude, childish, infantile and poorly read...
Tell me about it. Sara could of at least tried to refute what was said rather than resorting to childish behaviour.
Guess the truth hurts those that fear the truth. "
How about this truth:
Fascism (/'fæ??z?m/) is a form of radical right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
""What is Brexit about?"
It's about this - Independence.
Someone made a great point: "Are you sick and tired of hearing about brexit?
Instead of using the word brexit, I will use the word independence."
This is exactly how I feel.
I'm glad America didn't have to put up with this when they wanted their Independence. They realised they were better off without being controlled by, er, us! They even had to go to war to win their independence. And look what happened to their economy afterwards. They were doomed!!! Oh wait, no they weren't, they went on to become the most prosperous nation in the world I think.
I apologise for the next paragraph but I am going to allow myself for once have a go back, because I've had to put up with a lot of shite like not being invited to parties because I don't want to remain, unlike the cool and intelligent people:
Can you imagine if the US Independence was today, trying to fight but being attacked and sabotaged by "remainers" screaming for a second (but really however many it takes to get the result they want) referendum? Thankfully, the leavers didn't have to put up with any of that, and as history shows, America was better for it."
We are independent and have always been independent. We have more influence in the world and opportunity to chart our own course because of our leading position in the EU than we ever would outside.
The USA tells us not to use Huwawei. Can we refuse? Do you think China will take kindly to that?
The USA tells us not to tease with Iran. The UK has a different policy supported by the EU. What happens next?
America didn't want it's independence. It wanted representation in Parliament. It wasn't offered in the single biggest mistake in history.
After the war half the population left for Canada which remained British. It was a civil war as much as a fight against the Crown. So, there were plenty of remainers despite what Mel Gibson may think.
Start with history as it was.
I'm sorry that you feel unpopular. Your choice. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
I believe in the American war of independence, about a third were for independence, about a third were loyal to Britain and about a third did not care.
It's also worth noting that it took the newly-independent state about 130 years to get to a position of global influence.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
How about this truth:
Fascism (/'fæ??z?m/) is a form of radical right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe."
Wow, you've demonstrated that you can search a word and copy and paste it's definition.
Have a gold star |
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By *ethnmelv OP Couple
over a year ago
Chudleigh |
"
How about this truth:
Fascism (/'fæ??z?m/) is a form of radical right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.
Wow, you've demonstrated that you can search a word and copy and paste it's definition.
Have a gold star "
Thank you. As you may not know Fascism has a thing about stars. Look it up, maybe you will realise how absurd it is supporting Fascism in any way |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
How about this truth:
Fascism (/'fæ??z?m/) is a form of radical right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.
Wow, you've demonstrated that you can search a word and copy and paste it's definition.
Have a gold star "
You have demonstrated that you can regurgitate second-hand opinions and justify the superiority of one group over another as acceptable to yourself.
Well done
Is there anything else you need any more attention?
No more from me though sweetie |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
How about this truth:
Fascism (/'fæ??z?m/) is a form of radical right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.
Wow, you've demonstrated that you can search a word and copy and paste it's definition.
Have a gold star
You have demonstrated that you can regurgitate second-hand opinions and justify the superiority of one group over another as acceptable to yourself.
Well done
Is there anything else you need any more attention?
No more from me though sweetie "
Thank God, because you were getting boring. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Seriously how is an admitted racist/white supremacist allowed on these forums? The mods here are doing a terrible job. It's hilarious people like this are even on a swinging site considering how it was viewed as a filthy lefty hippy thing. |
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"State implies some sort of equity in the US constitution. This is about whether we want to be its colony.
"
Fair point. Neither appeals. We're definitely going to be their bitch - more than we ever have been - for the coming decades. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
""What is Brexit about?"
It's about this - Independence.
Someone made a great point: "Are you sick and tired of hearing about brexit?
Instead of using the word brexit, I will use the word independence."
This is exactly how I feel.
I'm glad America didn't have to put up with this when they wanted their Independence. They realised they were better off without being controlled by, er, us! They even had to go to war to win their independence. And look what happened to their economy afterwards. They were doomed!!! Oh wait, no they weren't, they went on to become the most prosperous nation in the world I think.
I apologise for the next paragraph but I am going to allow myself for once have a go back, because I've had to put up with a lot of shite like not being invited to parties because I don't want to remain, unlike the cool and intelligent people:
Can you imagine if the US Independence was today, trying to fight but being attacked and sabotaged by "remainers" screaming for a second (but really however many it takes to get the result they want) referendum? Thankfully, the leavers didn't have to put up with any of that, and as history shows, America was better for it."
There is another irony in this post which is our surrendering our independence to the USA.
Perhaps an unofficial relationship where we do whatever the USA wants without debate with English speakers is better than having an equal (if not more influential) say in what happens with people who speak a different language? |
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