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The Fall of the Tory Government
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
i did wonder if the anti-Brexit alliance might be able to recall Parliament and oust this shower.
Only the Speaker can recall Parliament, and only in response to a request from the Government, it seems. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
Do not count your chickens,a lot can happen between now and October.
Labour would not want an election they almost lost there deposite last night and if out of the EU Brexit party would be redundant,so do not think the tories are beaten yet.
Boris knows how to win |
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"Do not count your chickens,a lot can happen between now and October.
Labour would not want an election they almost lost there deposite last night and if out of the EU Brexit party would be redundant,so do not think the tories are beaten yet.
Boris knows how to win"
Deluded as usual.
Boris is shaping up to be the shortest lasting PM ever.  |
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"did you see him visiting the dam on tv tonight he looked a idiot
No shortage of people wanting to shake his hand and have a photo with him ...."
No shortage of fellow attention seeking idiots then |
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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago
Huddersfield /derby cinemas |
"Do not count your chickens,a lot can happen between now and October.
Labour would not want an election they almost lost there deposite last night and if out of the EU Brexit party would be redundant,so do not think the tories are beaten yet.
Boris knows how to win"
. The fact that Labour nearly lost their deposit last night is actually more worrying to the conservatives than it is to Labour , it shows that Labour voters in seats where Labour were not going to win would vote LibDem in order to get rid of the Tory .. And it worked .. On a slightly related topic ,,, does the new MP get to keep the pictures that the ousted MP bought for his constituency office ??? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Can't say id miss the tories, especially for how theyve treated the sick and disabled. People dying in hospital beds just days while being deemed fit for work is beyond belief.
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Do not count your chickens,a lot can happen between now and October.
Labour would not want an election they almost lost there deposite last night and if out of the EU Brexit party would be redundant,so do not think the tories are beaten yet.
Boris knows how to win. The fact that Labour nearly lost their deposit last night is actually more worrying to the conservatives than it is to Labour , it shows that Labour voters in seats where Labour were not going to win would vote LibDem in order to get rid of the Tory .. And it worked .. On a slightly related topic ,,, does the new MP get to keep the pictures that the ousted MP bought for his constituency office ??? "
Doesn't it belong to us anyway? |
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By *ild_oatsMan
over a year ago
the land of saints & sinners |
"Do not count your chickens,a lot can happen between now and October.
Labour would not want an election they almost lost there deposite last night and if out of the EU Brexit party would be redundant,so do not think the tories are beaten yet.
Boris knows how to win. The fact that Labour nearly lost their deposit last night is actually more worrying to the conservatives than it is to Labour , it shows that Labour voters in seats where Labour were not going to win would vote LibDem in order to get rid of the Tory .. And it worked .. On a slightly related topic ,,, does the new MP get to keep the pictures that the ousted MP bought for his constituency office ???
Doesn't it belong to us anyway?"
Actually each MP rents/leases their own constituency office.
Paid for by the MP’s running expenses.
Which are ultimately paid for by UK tax payers.... |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Do not count your chickens,a lot can happen between now and October.
Labour would not want an election they almost lost there deposite last night and if out of the EU Brexit party would be redundant,so do not think the tories are beaten yet.
Boris knows how to win. The fact that Labour nearly lost their deposit last night is actually more worrying to the conservatives than it is to Labour , it shows that Labour voters in seats where Labour were not going to win would vote LibDem in order to get rid of the Tory .. And it worked .. On a slightly related topic ,,, does the new MP get to keep the pictures that the ousted MP bought for his constituency office ??? "
You have been listening to corbyn,s spin  .I couldn't wait to see his response and all he could come up with was that people didnt vote for labour to get rid of the tories .What a load of crap its because no one could vote labour because they have not a clue what they stand for. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
From the Metro:
"A Tory MP has threatened to defect to the Liberal Democrats over Brexit, removing Boris Johnson’s majority in Parliament.
"Phillip Lee, the MP for Bracknell, has said he will spend the summer break considering whether to leave the Conservative party over its position on Brexit.
"The nine year incumbent said he has felt alienated with the party’s shift towards a no-deal Brexit since the election of Boris Johnson."
Go Phillip!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"did you see him visiting the dam on tv tonight he looked a idiot"
What a prick, visiting people forced to leave their houses to see what help they need. Should have stayed at home and done nothing, wanker. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
I wonder what will replace it?"
A centre-left coalition.
Labour/Lib Dems/SNP
Step 1: Corbyn negotiates an EU exit to a customs union (Labour policy)
Step 2: The EU exit plan versus Remain in a 2nd referendum (Lib Dem policy)
Step 3: In the event of an EU exit, referendum for Scottish exit from UK (SNP policy)
|
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"did you see him visiting the dam on tv tonight he looked a idiot
What a prick, visiting people forced to leave their houses to see what help they need. Should have stayed at home and done nothing, wanker. "
If he flew in under his own power and physically held back the flood water he would have still done something wrong. |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
Labour are in a very precarious position of their own making.
On Brexit, they have said if there's a second referendum they will campaign to remain, yet if they were in power they would negotiate to leave in a better way.
As far as a GE is concerned, their manifesto will have to say whether they are leave or remain...... Remain, and they risk losing seats in the north;
Leave, and they risk losing seats in the midlands and south.
In Brecon, remain parties stood down to give the LibDems their votes.... I'm not sure they would do the same in a GE.
Now, if Labour came out on a remain platform, I can't see all the 'remain' parties still making way for each other in a GE. If they did, this would mean LibDems and Labour in particular standing down in constituencies where they think the other would be more likely to win.... Which means LibDems and Labour would be doing a deal with each other up front over seats that they would otherwise hope they could win, and a potential Labour/LibDem coalition government, which would be great for the Conservative election propoganda machine ("vote Liberal, get Labour"). If the Conservatives did a deal with the Brexit Party, in seats the tories would not win anyway, what could Labour say - "vote leave, get leave"?
So, Labour know they cannot win a majority in their own right, and hence say they want a General Election, but don't try to force one when they could have by calling for a vote of no confidence just before the summer recess.
There is a recession coming (the rest of the EU are already practically there, if not so already), and maybe Labour see their best chance of getting power to be to wait for that, and the election that will follow. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Boris calls an election early October parliament suspended we leave 31st happy days "
Surely he'd be better off calling one in early November as parliament will be dissolved for several weeks beforehand, getting around the prorouging issue - because, whilst many MP's are against suspending parliament to force a no deal, I doubt many of them (certainly not Corbyn) will be opposed to a General Election |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Newbury |
"i did wonder if the anti-Brexit alliance might be able to recall Parliament and oust this shower.
Only the Speaker can recall Parliament, and only in response to a request from the Government, it seems."
Anti-Brexit alliance?
What won the Lib Dems that seat was the split between the Tories and the BREXIT party.
I think that the notion that pro remain parties who would command a tiny minority of the vote in that (usually safe Tory) seat not standing (green, ChangeUK) is delusional at best. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
I wonder what will replace it?
A centre-left coalition.
Labour/Lib Dems/SNP
Step 1: Corbyn negotiates an EU exit to a customs union (Labour policy)
Step 2: The EU exit plan versus Remain in a 2nd referendum (Lib Dem policy)
Step 3: In the event of an EU exit, referendum for Scottish exit from UK (SNP policy)
"
the price for any formal centre left coalition will be the head of corbyn... there is zero chance the lib dems and the snp would allow him to be the head...
that and "home rule/full fiscal autonomy" for the snp.... independence in all but name.... |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Boris calls an election early October parliament suspended we leave 31st happy days "
no confidence vote 1st week sept..
14 days to try and form new govt and fail...
35 days then for general election campaign...
general election.... october 24th.....
and remember that in all of that... after a no confidence vote.... purdah policy then applies, so all this money they were going to throw at advertising for a no deal brexit... they can't do! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"did you see him visiting the dam on tv tonight he looked a idiot
What a prick, visiting people forced to leave their houses to see what help they need. Should have stayed at home and done nothing, wanker.
If he flew in under his own power and physically held back the flood water he would have still done something wrong. "
He's podgy enough ... |
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"Boris calls an election early October parliament suspended we leave 31st happy days
no confidence vote 1st week sept..
14 days to try and form new govt and fail...
35 days then for general election campaign...
general election.... october 24th.....
and remember that in all of that... after a no confidence vote.... purdah policy then applies, so all this money they were going to throw at advertising for a no deal brexit... they can't do!"
Labours call... I’m not convinced Corbyn will do it ... |
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"the price for any formal centre left coalition will be the head of corbyn... there is zero chance the lib dems and the snp would allow him to be the head...
that and "home rule/full fiscal autonomy" for the snp.... independence in all but name...."
That's a reasonable idea. That said, I'm not convinced even a left wing Westminster coalition government would give Scotland full fiscal autonomy; nor that the SNP would negotiate for it, since it's not independence.
Of course, these days, just about anything is possible.
The Tories no longer in power is a good place to start, though. Hopefully soon. |
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"
I wonder what will replace it?
A centre-left coalition.
Labour/Lib Dems/SNP
Step 1: Corbyn negotiates an EU exit to a customs union (Labour policy)
Step 2: The EU exit plan versus Remain in a 2nd referendum (Lib Dem policy)
Step 3: In the event of an EU exit, referendum for Scottish exit from UK (SNP policy)
"
Yep. Given the way things are, these days, nobody's getting an overall majority. That's no bad thing. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Newbury |
"Your calculation ignores the Labour vote that went to anyone-but-a-Tory tactic.
"
It's a leave area, so they may well have voted BREXIT as opposed to LibDem.
The lib Dems are just as hated as the Tories, especially now they have a pro-austerity right wing leader. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Re fiscal autonomy, the Eurozone crisis demonstrated the dangers inherent in a single currency with fiscal autonomy.
Essentially, it requires the other states to bail out the one that can't afford to pay its debts. I can't imagine England taking that risk.
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Boris calls an election early October parliament suspended we leave 31st happy days
no confidence vote 1st week sept..
14 days to try and form new govt and fail...
35 days then for general election campaign...
general election.... october 24th.....
and remember that in all of that... after a no confidence vote.... purdah policy then applies, so all this money they were going to throw at advertising for a no deal brexit... they can't do!"
You have forgot again that parliament will be out again in september for party conferences as i told you before _abio but you chose to ignore it. so we will be out by default while parliament is suspended for a GE.I think thats been the boris plan all along. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"It is by no means certain these conferences will take place. Already speculation about them being reduced in length."
They have to have them to decide their manifestos, bloody hell corbyn cant do sod all without momentum telling him and he is always the 1st when asked a question to tell us "we are a democratic party the members will decide".Tick toc. |
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"Do not count your chickens,a lot can happen between now and October.
Labour would not want an election they almost lost there deposite last night and if out of the EU Brexit party would be redundant,so do not think the tories are beaten yet.
Boris knows how to win
Deluded as usual.
Boris is shaping up to be the shortest lasting PM ever. "
cobblers |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Boris calls an election early October parliament suspended we leave 31st happy days
no confidence vote 1st week sept..
14 days to try and form new govt and fail...
35 days then for general election campaign...
general election.... october 24th.....
and remember that in all of that... after a no confidence vote.... purdah policy then applies, so all this money they were going to throw at advertising for a no deal brexit... they can't do!You have forgot again that parliament will be out again in september for party conferences as i told you before _abio but you chose to ignore it. so we will be out by default while parliament is suspended for a GE.I think thats been the boris plan all along. "
they are back for 2 weeks before they go on recess again for 3 weeks for party conference season...
i chose to ignore you, because you were talking rubbish..... sorry..... |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Boris calls an election early October parliament suspended we leave 31st happy days
no confidence vote 1st week sept..
14 days to try and form new govt and fail...
35 days then for general election campaign...
general election.... october 24th.....
and remember that in all of that... after a no confidence vote.... purdah policy then applies, so all this money they were going to throw at advertising for a no deal brexit... they can't do!You have forgot again that parliament will be out again in september for party conferences as i told you before _abio but you chose to ignore it. so we will be out by default while parliament is suspended for a GE.I think thats been the boris plan all along.
they are back for 2 weeks before they go on recess again for 3 weeks for party conference season...
i chose to ignore you, because you were talking rubbish..... sorry....."
so how was i talking rubbish as posted the same as you but with a recess for the conferences which takes the election date past the 31st.Just because you dont like it does not make it rubbish. |
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Surely Farage must realise that the greatest danger to UK politics now is not Corbyn nor the LIberals, it’s the Brexit party.
If the fucking idiots that voted for them had voted Conservative then the Liberals wouldn’t have won the seat.
Take the same scenario across the country and you have a shitstorm waiting to happen. Farage needs to do the right thing and walk away from British politics again if he wants us out of the EU. How he can’t see this is beyond me. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Surely Farage must realise that the greatest danger to UK politics now is not Corbyn nor the LIberals, it’s the Brexit party.
If the fucking idiots that voted for them had voted Conservative then the Liberals wouldn’t have won the seat.
Take the same scenario across the country and you have a shitstorm waiting to happen. Farage needs to do the right thing and walk away from British politics again if he wants us out of the EU. How he can’t see this is beyond me."
Have you not realised that this is about Farage for Farage, not any cause.
Just like Boris for Boris and Trump for Trump.
Not seeing that is what surprises me. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"did you see him visiting the dam on tv tonight he looked a idiot
What a prick, visiting people forced to leave their houses to see what help they need. Should have stayed at home and done nothing, wanker.
If he flew in under his own power and physically held back the flood water he would have still done something wrong. "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
And then he was joined in the queue by Jezza. Who's response is "lets have a public enquiry into the dam infrastructure in our country.
Errmmmm Jeremy the dam was built 200 years ago so really up to what we'd build today. The spill way needs some resurfacing and re grouting to prevent the water getting under it again.
Really that's all you need to know really. Do we really have to spend millions of pounds on yet another ruddy public enquiry. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"Surely Farage must realise that the greatest danger to UK politics now is not Corbyn nor the LIberals, it’s the Brexit party.
If the fucking idiots that voted for them had voted Conservative then the Liberals wouldn’t have won the seat.
Take the same scenario across the country and you have a shitstorm waiting to happen. Farage needs to do the right thing and walk away from British politics again if he wants us out of the EU. How he can’t see this is beyond me."
Because the Conservative Party cannot be trusted. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Surely Farage must realise that the greatest danger to UK politics now is not Corbyn nor the LIberals, it’s the Brexit party.
If the fucking idiots that voted for them had voted Conservative then the Liberals wouldn’t have won the seat.
Take the same scenario across the country and you have a shitstorm waiting to happen. Farage needs to do the right thing and walk away from British politics again if he wants us out of the EU. How he can’t see this is beyond me."
Farage has built his political career on fueling and inciting hatred towards the EU.
It's the only part of the UK's political system he's had any success with, lying and inciting hatred towards the EU and becoming an MEP. He's asked 7 times now to be elected as an actual UK MP and he's been told to fuck off every single time.
Inciting hatred against the EU is his only political success so I don't see him folding the Brexit party anytime soon.
If anything I'd guess he's hoping for Boris to fail and not leave the EU then the rhetoric and inciting would reach new heights and he'd hope enough of his chums win enough seats in a General election to then attempt to slither himself into a Government position by way of a coalition.
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Boris calls an election early October parliament suspended we leave 31st happy days
no confidence vote 1st week sept..
14 days to try and form new govt and fail...
35 days then for general election campaign...
general election.... october 24th.....
and remember that in all of that... after a no confidence vote.... purdah policy then applies, so all this money they were going to throw at advertising for a no deal brexit... they can't do!You have forgot again that parliament will be out again in september for party conferences as i told you before _abio but you chose to ignore it. so we will be out by default while parliament is suspended for a GE.I think thats been the boris plan all along.
they are back for 2 weeks before they go on recess again for 3 weeks for party conference season...
i chose to ignore you, because you were talking rubbish..... sorry....."
Seems mr corbyn is now worried about the rubbish i was talking Fabio. |
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By *bernath OP Couple
over a year ago
Gloucestershire |
"From the Metro:
"A Tory MP has threatened to defect to the Liberal Democrats over Brexit, removing Boris Johnson’s majority in Parliament.
"Phillip Lee, the MP for Bracknell, has said he will spend the summer break considering whether to leave the Conservative party over its position on Brexit.
"The nine year incumbent said he has felt alienated with the party’s shift towards a no-deal Brexit since the election of Boris Johnson."
Go Phillip!
"
It happened. |
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"From the Metro:
"A Tory MP has threatened to defect to the Liberal Democrats over Brexit, removing Boris Johnson’s majority in Parliament.
"Phillip Lee, the MP for Bracknell, has said he will spend the summer break considering whether to leave the Conservative party over its position on Brexit.
"The nine year incumbent said he has felt alienated with the party’s shift towards a no-deal Brexit since the election of Boris Johnson."
Go Phillip!
It happened."
So now who will be in power? |
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By *bernath OP Couple
over a year ago
Gloucestershire |
"you know you're having a bad day when your working majority goes from +1 to -43 in the space of 6 hrs...... 
"
Whips being withdrawn on conservative rebels. He has no majority.
Remaining tories are banking that the rebel alliance cannot form a government now. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
the ironic thing about bojo kicking them out the party is that he can try and get a General Election, but now doesn't have the numbers (without labour) to get that thru parliament...
so now labour control the General Election timetable.... |
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By *bernath OP Couple
over a year ago
Gloucestershire |
"the ironic thing about bojo kicking them out the party is that he can try and get a General Election, but now doesn't have the numbers (without labour) to get that thru parliament...
so now labour control the General Election timetable.... "
There are more chapters to this saga, it isn’t over yet... |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
and the DUP lost there money tree... i mean at this stage what is really the difference between -43 and -63.....
been thinking... if i was labour... what i would be tempted to do
1) get the benn bill thru parliament delaying the leaving date..... make johnson have to do the one thing he said he would not do which is get an extension...
2) vote against any GE bill (at the moment.. not letting them goad you!)
3) let the prorouge happen (basically using it now against bojo and closing parliament till october... and basically letting him stew for 5 weeks..)
4) vote down the queens speech (which is the same as a vote of no confidence)..... then basically take your general election shot!
basically make life miserable for bojo for the next few weeks........
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"and the DUP lost there money tree... i mean at this stage what is really the difference between -43 and -63.....
been thinking... if i was labour... what i would be tempted to do
1) get the benn bill thru parliament delaying the leaving date..... make johnson have to do the one thing he said he would not do which is get an extension...
2) vote against any GE bill (at the moment.. not letting them goad you!)
3) let the prorouge happen (basically using it now against bojo and closing parliament till october... and basically letting him stew for 5 weeks..)
4) vote down the queens speech (which is the same as a vote of no confidence)..... then basically take your general election shot!
basically make life miserable for bojo for the next few weeks........
"
Think you may have it right Fabio. Would be hilarious if de Pfeffel and the lounge lizard moggy not only presided over destroying the Tory party but also managed to lose their deposits in a Tory party bloodbath GE. |
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No it’s not the Tory’s it’s the whole political representation, I admire Boris, at least he has the balls to push through what the electorate voted for, we democratically agreed to exit the EU. Three yrs later were still debating it..
The present elected representatives are not carrying out what we the electorate want!
Therefore they need to go, the whole lot of them!!
It’s a form of dictatorship or totalitarian rule that when a free society votes to do something, then the government totally ignores this!! |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
"
The present elected representatives are not carrying out what we the electorate want!
!"
What did the electorate want?
To leave the EU.
That's it.
MP's invoked Article 50.
A minority government proceeded to draw up a set of red lines for leaving that split their own party in two.
A second minority government proceeded to draw up a set of red lines for leaving that split their own party in two.
Do you see a pattern here?
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"the ironic thing about bojo kicking them out the party is that he can try and get a General Election, but now doesn't have the numbers (without labour) to get that thru parliament...
so now labour control the General Election timetable.... "
He didn't have the numbers without Labour anyway. Under the FTPA there has to be a two thirds majority in favour of a general election. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Fall of the Tory government? It's looking like the fall of the Tory party.
When the likes of Ken Clarke say on Newsnight they don't think they can vote Tory as he doesn't recognise it. "
The Tory party is just UKIP/Brexit party in all but name. We have no moderate choice any more. The liberal dems are just a bunch of Euro sycophants. Labour is Loony left. All that is left is Hobson's choice and that is no choice. Bit sad about it really but such is life eh. |
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"Fall of the Tory government? It's looking like the fall of the Tory party.
When the likes of Ken Clarke say on Newsnight they don't think they can vote Tory as he doesn't recognise it.
The Tory party is just UKIP/Brexit party in all but name. We have no moderate choice any more. The liberal dems are just a bunch of Euro sycophants. Labour is Loony left. All that is left is Hobson's choice and that is no choice. Bit sad about it really but such is life eh.
"
Which Labour policies do you specifically think are "loony"?
Looking at their last manifesto, most of it seemed pretty moderate and sensible. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Depends which side of fence you sit on. I am sure we could argue the toss about it ad infinitum. I am not keen on massive state intervention, it never works and Uncle Jeremy does not know best for me. He is a socialist and I don't like socialism. I can't understand what the draw is to it to be honest. All sounds very like the state meddling more and more in where my hard earned money is to be spent and dipping their hand in my pocket more and more. You'll never persuade me otherwise so don't even try LOL. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"But did anyone else get a bit turned on by the look Jo Swinson was giving Johnson when she said "As much as I relish taking on the prime minister in a general election..... I do"?
-Matt"
I agree, I bet she is filth in bed |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
I think Labour will kneecap Johnson this week.
By:
a) getting the No Deal bill through
b) blocking Johnson's escape route of a General Election
Labour leaves Johnson to look like an idiot during the party conferences and prorogation - another Tory leader who promises stuff but cannot deliver.
The longer he looks like a lame duck, the more the Conservative Party starts to lose vote share to the Brexit Party.
Parliament returns for the Queen's Speech.
Vote it down, call a vote of no confidence and prepare for an election.
Labour, if it plays its cards right, is in control of this now, not Johnson.
|
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"I think Labour will kneecap Johnson this week.
By:
a) getting the No Deal bill through
b) blocking Johnson's escape route of a General Election
Labour leaves Johnson to look like an idiot during the party conferences and prorogation - another Tory leader who promises stuff but cannot deliver.
The longer he looks like a lame duck, the more the Conservative Party starts to lose vote share to the Brexit Party.
Parliament returns for the Queen's Speech.
Vote it down, call a vote of no confidence and prepare for an election.
Labour, if it plays its cards right, is in control of this now, not Johnson.
"
If he has any sense, he and the rest of the Tories will follow Philip Lee to the lib dems. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I don't think they have an ounce of sense between them. They will probably do the complete opposite to what people think they will and say, well here you go Jeremy, you own this shit now and see if you can polish this particular turd |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Infact it would be a great government policy to hand the Brexit turd to Labour on a great big plate as big as a dustbin lid. However I don't think they have the sense to do that and will soldier on with the turd themselves. |
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"Infact it would be a great government policy to hand the Brexit turd to Labour on a great big plate as big as a dustbin lid. However I don't think they have the sense to do that and will soldier on with the turd themselves."
Hmm, could be quite funny if they all defected to the left! At what stage does the queen just say "right you pricks, I'm in charge!" |
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"Depends which side of fence you sit on. I am sure we could argue the toss about it ad infinitum. I am not keen on massive state intervention, it never works and Uncle Jeremy does not know best for me. He is a socialist and I don't like socialism. I can't understand what the draw is to it to be honest. All sounds very like the state meddling more and more in where my hard earned money is to be spent and dipping their hand in my pocket more and more. You'll never persuade me otherwise so don't even try LOL.
"
So you weren't state educated, won't be using the NHS, won't claim a pension or benefits if you are out of work then?
#evilsocialism |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Yes there could be an official ceremony where the turd is brought out on the golden plate and officially handed to Jeremy, the arch leaver is given the hallowed article 50 remit to leave the EU.
Boris and his Tory friends guffawing at how masterful they've been at giving the Turd to Jeremy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Depends which side of fence you sit on. I am sure we could argue the toss about it ad infinitum. I am not keen on massive state intervention, it never works and Uncle Jeremy does not know best for me. He is a socialist and I don't like socialism. I can't understand what the draw is to it to be honest. All sounds very like the state meddling more and more in where my hard earned money is to be spent and dipping their hand in my pocket more and more. You'll never persuade me otherwise so don't even try LOL.
So you weren't state educated, won't be using the NHS, won't claim a pension or benefits if you are out of work then?
#evilsocialism"
So you're saying none of those things will be available without socialism LOL. When were these things removed ? Wasn't aware that I can't use the NHS, send my kids if I had any still to state school or claim benefits when I lose my job after Brexit ?. Is my state pension going to be removed ? |
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"Depends which side of fence you sit on. I am sure we could argue the toss about it ad infinitum. I am not keen on massive state intervention, it never works and Uncle Jeremy does not know best for me. He is a socialist and I don't like socialism. I can't understand what the draw is to it to be honest. All sounds very like the state meddling more and more in where my hard earned money is to be spent and dipping their hand in my pocket more and more. You'll never persuade me otherwise so don't even try LOL.
So you weren't state educated, won't be using the NHS, won't claim a pension or benefits if you are out of work then?
#evilsocialism
So you're saying none of those things will be available without socialism LOL. When were these things removed ? Wasn't aware that I can't use the NHS, send my kids if I had any still to state school or claim benefits when I lose my job after Brexit ?. Is my state pension going to be removed ?"
But they are all the result of socialism, which you don't like. So obviously you stand by your free market principles and pay for private versions? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Nope
you wont draw me into that one. I have always believed that these things should be provided by the state. I am very glad that Bevin formalised and set in stone many of the things put in place by forward thinking liberals in the early part of the 20th century. The state pension was a liberal idea and support from cradle to grave furthered that paternalistic good ideal.
But those are not socialist ideas they are liberal ideas. Socialism is about state intervention in energy and other key resources. The running of railways and nuclear power stations and internet providers. That's why I don't like Labour. I am much more liberal minded but trouble, so I am minded to vote liberal democrat at the next election as although I don't like their slavish remain leanings it is something I can live with as I go into my 60s and 70s. I think they might provide the safest bet in the future. |
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The overall principles of the Tory party seem to have been lost somewhat with the Brexit shambles.
Theresa May did her best to appease everyone and got nowhere.
Boris has gone in all guns blazing and promised to do as the electorate voted for no matter what, and has alienated himself from all reasonable people .
So what next?
More procrastination and more wish washy nonsense, until the EU say enough is enough and tell us to simply stop wasting theirs and our own time and just do one.
Or the ultimate climb down, the ultimate show that democracy is dead, and we have another referendum. That seems likely if a Labour/ Liberal coalition get in.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The overall principles of the Tory party seem to have been lost somewhat with the Brexit shambles.
Theresa May did her best to appease everyone and got nowhere.
Boris has gone in all guns blazing and promised to do as the electorate voted for no matter what, and has alienated himself from all reasonable people .
So what next?
More procrastination and more wish washy nonsense, until the EU say enough is enough and tell us to simply stop wasting theirs and our own time and just do one.
Or the ultimate climb down, the ultimate show that democracy is dead, and we have another referendum. That seems likely if a Labour/ Liberal coalition get in.
"
I'm not arguing with any of your points except one.
How would having another referendum, more democracy, be the ultimate show that democracy is dead?
Bearing in mind the last referendum was advisory. |
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By *bernath OP Couple
over a year ago
Gloucestershire |
"The overall principles of the Tory party seem to have been lost somewhat with the Brexit shambles.
Theresa May did her best to appease everyone and got nowhere.
Boris has gone in all guns blazing and promised to do as the electorate voted for no matter what, and has alienated himself from all reasonable people .
So what next?
More procrastination and more wish washy nonsense, until the EU say enough is enough and tell us to simply stop wasting theirs and our own time and just do one.
Or the ultimate climb down, the ultimate show that democracy is dead, and we have another referendum. That seems likely if a Labour/ Liberal coalition get in.
"
I think many people wanted a deal with the EU, 17 million cannot unilaterally say out means no deal.
Bring the 16 million onboard with an orderly brexit which benefits everyone, time is what we have, patience is what need, a deal will be struck. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The overall principles of the Tory party seem to have been lost somewhat with the Brexit shambles.
Theresa May did her best to appease everyone and got nowhere.
Boris has gone in all guns blazing and promised to do as the electorate voted for no matter what, and has alienated himself from all reasonable people .
So what next?
More procrastination and more wish washy nonsense, until the EU say enough is enough and tell us to simply stop wasting theirs and our own time and just do one.
Or the ultimate climb down, the ultimate show that democracy is dead, and we have another referendum. That seems likely if a Labour/ Liberal coalition get in.
"
You warned this would happen , but chose to ignore , get over it |
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By *bernath OP Couple
over a year ago
Gloucestershire |
"The overall principles of the Tory party seem to have been lost somewhat with the Brexit shambles.
Theresa May did her best to appease everyone and got nowhere.
Boris has gone in all guns blazing and promised to do as the electorate voted for no matter what, and has alienated himself from all reasonable people .
So what next?
More procrastination and more wish washy nonsense, until the EU say enough is enough and tell us to simply stop wasting theirs and our own time and just do one.
Or the ultimate climb down, the ultimate show that democracy is dead, and we have another referendum. That seems likely if a Labour/ Liberal coalition get in.
I'm not arguing with any of your points except one.
How would having another referendum, more democracy, be the ultimate show that democracy is dead?
Bearing in mind the last referendum was advisory."
Democracy is not dead, its changing, these months will decide how our democracy changes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The overall principles of the Tory party seem to have been lost somewhat with the Brexit shambles.
Theresa May did her best to appease everyone and got nowhere.
Boris has gone in all guns blazing and promised to do as the electorate voted for no matter what, and has alienated himself from all reasonable people .
So what next?
More procrastination and more wish washy nonsense, until the EU say enough is enough and tell us to simply stop wasting theirs and our own time and just do one.
Or the ultimate climb down, the ultimate show that democracy is dead, and we have another referendum. That seems likely if a Labour/ Liberal coalition get in.
I think many people wanted a deal with the EU, 17 million cannot unilaterally say out means no deal.
Bring the 16 million onboard with an orderly brexit which benefits everyone, time is what we have, patience is what need, a deal will be struck. "
I think that's the issue. There is no such thing as a brexit that benefits everyone.
The point of brexit wasn't to provide any benefit to the UK or to the population. |
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By *bernath OP Couple
over a year ago
Gloucestershire |
"The overall principles of the Tory party seem to have been lost somewhat with the Brexit shambles.
Theresa May did her best to appease everyone and got nowhere.
Boris has gone in all guns blazing and promised to do as the electorate voted for no matter what, and has alienated himself from all reasonable people .
So what next?
More procrastination and more wish washy nonsense, until the EU say enough is enough and tell us to simply stop wasting theirs and our own time and just do one.
Or the ultimate climb down, the ultimate show that democracy is dead, and we have another referendum. That seems likely if a Labour/ Liberal coalition get in.
I think many people wanted a deal with the EU, 17 million cannot unilaterally say out means no deal.
Bring the 16 million onboard with an orderly brexit which benefits everyone, time is what we have, patience is what need, a deal will be struck.
I think that's the issue. There is no such thing as a brexit that benefits everyone.
The point of brexit wasn't to provide any benefit to the UK or to the population. "
I understand, we just have to patient, there is a solution and road which has not been travelled yet, the numbers are there.
Give parliament its time to sort it out now, the gears turn slowly, but they turn nonetheless. |
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"Fall of the Tory government? It's looking like the fall of the Tory party.
When the likes of Ken Clarke say on Newsnight they don't think they can vote Tory as he doesn't recognise it.
The Tory party is just UKIP/Brexit party in all but name. We have no moderate choice any more. The liberal dems are just a bunch of Euro sycophants. Labour is Loony left. All that is left is Hobson's choice and that is no choice. Bit sad about it really but such is life eh.
Which Labour policies do you specifically think are "loony"?
Looking at their last manifesto, most of it seemed pretty moderate and sensible. "
Are you serious?
Every time a socialist government gets in, our economy suffers
Look at the pattern in history
Also JC hasn’t denied or apologies over anti Semitic remarks he made...
FFS |
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"Depends which side of fence you sit on. I am sure we could argue the toss about it ad infinitum. I am not keen on massive state intervention, it never works and Uncle Jeremy does not know best for me. He is a socialist and I don't like socialism. I can't understand what the draw is to it to be honest. All sounds very like the state meddling more and more in where my hard earned money is to be spent and dipping their hand in my pocket more and more. You'll never persuade me otherwise so don't even try LOL."
Really?
You sure about that?
Let me point out some facts for you. 75% of our railways ARE state owned and run for the benefit of the state. The problem is they ARE NOT owned by or run for the benefit of the British state. They are owned by the French, German, Netherlands, Italian and Chinese states! And we pay them more in subsidies than we did when they were run by us for our benefit, while they transfer 'profits' back to their countries to subsidise their state owned railways!
Our largest electrical supplier is owned by the French state and the French and Chinese states are combining to build our next nuclear power station having been given a contract that pays them 50% above market for their electricity.
Seems to me you, like the Tories, have no problem with state run industries at all provided it is not the British state that is running them. |
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"Fall of the Tory government? It's looking like the fall of the Tory party.
When the likes of Ken Clarke say on Newsnight they don't think they can vote Tory as he doesn't recognise it.
The Tory party is just UKIP/Brexit party in all but name. We have no moderate choice any more. The liberal dems are just a bunch of Euro sycophants. Labour is Loony left. All that is left is Hobson's choice and that is no choice. Bit sad about it really but such is life eh.
Which Labour policies do you specifically think are "loony"?
Looking at their last manifesto, most of it seemed pretty moderate and sensible.
Are you serious?
Every time a socialist government gets in, our economy suffers
Look at the pattern in history
Also JC hasn’t denied or apologies over anti Semitic remarks he made...
FFS
"
Under the last Labour government the economy was doing well. Until the bankers screwed up the whole world's economy.
The economy has not fared so well under this present government.
There is also more to a country than its economy. On just about every metric you care to use things have got worse...
Life expectancy.
Poverty.
Crime.
A&E waiting times.
Rough sleeping.
Food banks.
Etc.
He has never said anything anti-semitic. Anti Israel, certainly, as anyone with some humanity would do. |
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By *bernath OP Couple
over a year ago
Gloucestershire |
"Fall of the Tory government? It's looking like the fall of the Tory party.
When the likes of Ken Clarke say on Newsnight they don't think they can vote Tory as he doesn't recognise it.
The Tory party is just UKIP/Brexit party in all but name. We have no moderate choice any more. The liberal dems are just a bunch of Euro sycophants. Labour is Loony left. All that is left is Hobson's choice and that is no choice. Bit sad about it really but such is life eh.
Which Labour policies do you specifically think are "loony"?
Looking at their last manifesto, most of it seemed pretty moderate and sensible.
Are you serious?
Every time a socialist government gets in, our economy suffers
Look at the pattern in history
Also JC hasn’t denied or apologies over anti Semitic remarks he made...
FFS
Under the last Labour government the economy was doing well. Until the bankers screwed up the whole world's economy.
The economy has not fared so well under this present government.
There is also more to a country than its economy. On just about every metric you care to use things have got worse...
Life expectancy.
Poverty.
Crime.
A&E waiting times.
Rough sleeping.
Food banks.
Etc.
He has never said anything anti-semitic. Anti Israel, certainly, as anyone with some humanity would do. "
I think he’s not anti israel either, but more anti benjamin netanyahu and his hard right policies, which are very divisive.
Plus he does support meretz the left wing party of israel also. From what i researched.
He does support the right of israeli self determination as should everyone.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Depends which side of fence you sit on. I am sure we could argue the toss about it ad infinitum. I am not keen on massive state intervention, it never works and Uncle Jeremy does not know best for me. He is a socialist and I don't like socialism. I can't understand what the draw is to it to be honest. All sounds very like the state meddling more and more in where my hard earned money is to be spent and dipping their hand in my pocket more and more. You'll never persuade me otherwise so don't even try LOL.
Really?
You sure about that?
Let me point out some facts for you. 75% of our railways ARE state owned and run for the benefit of the state. The problem is they ARE NOT owned by or run for the benefit of the British state. They are owned by the French, German, Netherlands, Italian and Chinese states! And we pay them more in subsidies than we did when they were run by us for our benefit, while they transfer 'profits' back to their countries to subsidise their state owned railways!
Our largest electrical supplier is owned by the French state and the French and Chinese states are combining to build our next nuclear power station having been given a contract that pays them 50% above market for their electricity.
Seems to me you, like the Tories, have no problem with state run industries at all provided it is not the British state that is running them."
As I said I feel they are possibly a safer bet. I know about all the stuff you are waffling on about. Yep and I am sure there are lots of British companies with fingers in foreigners pies otherwise why does the FTSE 100 go up when the pound goes down. It's the way of the world. |
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"I know about all the stuff you are waffling on about."
But still you claim to be opposed to public ownership of services and democratic socialism while happy to use state education and the NHS and no doubt happy to see the state fund the military, police and fire services. How come you don't want to privatise them? Or is it a case of your owners haven't worked out how to make a profit out of them yet and when they do you will be fully in favour of them being privatised too? |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
The partisan nature of the UK media was really illustrated this morning when I went to Aldi.
One of the headlines on the front of a Daily Mail front page smearing Corbyn was: "He blocked the May deal".
Lolololol
The people who blocked the May deal were Boris Johnson and his chums in the DUP and the ERG.
Lolololol
But let's ignore that - it's more important to stop Corbyn
Lolololol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I know about all the stuff you are waffling on about.
But still you claim to be opposed to public ownership of services and democratic socialism while happy to use state education and the NHS and no doubt happy to see the state fund the military, police and fire services. How come you don't want to privatise them? Or is it a case of your owners haven't worked out how to make a profit out of them yet and when they do you will be fully in favour of them being privatised too?"
Not quite sure why you are chasing this particular rabbit. You obviously like socialist ideals and I do not. I think it would be very hard for us to see eye to eye over things, however I am sure if a majority of our population like your ideals too then you can look forward to Mr corbyn being in No.10.
Socialism just doesn't work in my opinion. Neither does outright thatcherism. Somewhere in there is a middle way of us both being right. I think we are heading towards a tipping point one way or other. One thing for sure is there is fuck all I can do about it.
|
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"The partisan nature of the UK media was really illustrated this morning when I went to Aldi.
One of the headlines on the front of a Daily Mail front page smearing Corbyn was: "He blocked the May deal".
Lolololol
The people who blocked the May deal were Boris Johnson and his chums in the DUP and the ERG.
Lolololol
But let's ignore that - it's more important to stop Corbyn
Lolololol"
They don't call it the Daily Fail for nothing. |
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"Not quite sure why you are chasing this particular rabbit. You obviously like socialist ideals and I do not. I think it would be very hard for us to see eye to eye over things, however I am sure if a majority of our population like your ideals too then you can look forward to Mr corbyn being in No.10.
Socialism just doesn't work in my opinion. Neither does outright thatcherism. Somewhere in there is a middle way of us both being right. I think we are heading towards a tipping point one way or other. One thing for sure is there is fuck all I can do about it.
"
It is clear you don't understand what I am getting at at all, so let me help you.
You say you do not believe socialist ideas work but when I name things that are run or should be run on totally socialist ideals you say of course them, but that's not socialism. You claim that socialism does not work but every advantage you have in life (unless you are a member of the aristocracy) has been gained through your forebears fighting socialist ideals. You claim that capitalism is the only workable system but every 10 years or so we witness the collapse of capitalism due to the greed of the mega-wealthy which is followed by a socialist bailout of those greedy fucks by governments that claim to be anti socialism when what they mean is anti socialism for all but the most wealthy. The result is that in the last 9 years the poorest 20% of the country have seen their spending power reduce by between 25 and 100% while the top 1% have doubled their wealth.
As for what the general population believe and want:
96% want police run as a public service not as a for profit private business.
93% want schools run as a public service.
89% want the NHS run as a public service.
76% Royal Mail, 71% railways, 70% Water, 63% energy (that's gas and electricity), and nobodies even thought that we need polling on the military, coastguard, fire service or roads.
Fact is when it comes to our vital national infrastructure if you really believe that they should be hostage to the whims of the capitalist markets you are very much in the minority. But somehow I suspect that if your honest you are on my side for at least the services listed above. As for other things I want a highly regulated market. After all it's less than 30 years since the agrifeed industry were willing to feed us all bio-hazard meat in the name of extra profit, not to mention the millions the tobacco industry still kill for profit!
Capitalism is a fatally flawed system that has convinced most of us that we need to be willing to die so it can survive. I think maybe you are one who has fully bought into that death cult. |
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"Do not count your chickens,a lot can happen between now and October.
Labour would not want an election they almost lost there deposite last night and if out of the EU Brexit party would be redundant,so do not think the tories are beaten yet.
Boris knows how to win"
That's true: boris know how to cheat to pass an exam... A true liar will get a lot of followers like him. |
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I think between de Pfeffel swearing at the opposition during Wednesdays PM's questions and the openly contemptuous way Mogg sprawled across the front bench in front of the dispatch box it is clear that this government has no respect for parliament and has signaled its willingness to break every parliamentary convention and norm to force a no deal brexit through. |
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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago
Bristol East |
Johnson is making exactly the same mistake as Mrs May.
When your administration is a minority, the only way to implement your agenda is through consensus and compromise.
Instead, both circled their wagons and tried to ram a divisive policy through Parliament.
Both turned into car wrecks.
Is there something in the DNA of Conservatives that makes them unable to work with non-Conservatives and compromise?
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Not quite sure why you are chasing this particular rabbit. You obviously like socialist ideals and I do not. I think it would be very hard for us to see eye to eye over things, however I am sure if a majority of our population like your ideals too then you can look forward to Mr corbyn being in No.10.
Socialism just doesn't work in my opinion. Neither does outright thatcherism. Somewhere in there is a middle way of us both being right. I think we are heading towards a tipping point one way or other. One thing for sure is there is fuck all I can do about it.
It is clear you don't understand what I am getting at at all, so let me help you.
You say you do not believe socialist ideas work but when I name things that are run or should be run on totally socialist ideals you say of course them, but that's not socialism. You claim that socialism does not work but every advantage you have in life (unless you are a member of the aristocracy) has been gained through your forebears fighting socialist ideals. You claim that capitalism is the only workable system but every 10 years or so we witness the collapse of capitalism due to the greed of the mega-wealthy which is followed by a socialist bailout of those greedy fucks by governments that claim to be anti socialism when what they mean is anti socialism for all but the most wealthy. The result is that in the last 9 years the poorest 20% of the country have seen their spending power reduce by between 25 and 100% while the top 1% have doubled their wealth.
As for what the general population believe and want:
96% want police run as a public service not as a for profit private business.
93% want schools run as a public service.
89% want the NHS run as a public service.
76% Royal Mail, 71% railways, 70% Water, 63% energy (that's gas and electricity), and nobodies even thought that we need polling on the military, coastguard, fire service or roads.
Fact is when it comes to our vital national infrastructure if you really believe that they should be hostage to the whims of the capitalist markets you are very much in the minority. But somehow I suspect that if your honest you are on my side for at least the services listed above. As for other things I want a highly regulated market. After all it's less than 30 years since the agrifeed industry were willing to feed us all bio-hazard meat in the name of extra profit, not to mention the millions the tobacco industry still kill for profit!
Capitalism is a fatally flawed system that has convinced most of us that we need to be willing to die so it can survive. I think maybe you are one who has fully bought into that death cult."
Thanks Wolfie . I am now fully educated. "POWER TO THE PEOPLE" |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"A no deal Brexit will be challenging...a Labour government would be a disaster..it is sad that there isn't creditable alternative to the Conservatives."
That's why people are migrating to the Lib Dems.
Their time may well be approaching! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Not quite sure why you are chasing this particular rabbit. You obviously like socialist ideals and I do not. I think it would be very hard for us to see eye to eye over things, however I am sure if a majority of our population like your ideals too then you can look forward to Mr corbyn being in No.10.
Socialism just doesn't work in my opinion. Neither does outright thatcherism. Somewhere in there is a middle way of us both being right. I think we are heading towards a tipping point one way or other. One thing for sure is there is fuck all I can do about it.
It is clear you don't understand what I am getting at at all, so let me help you.
You say you do not believe socialist ideas work but when I name things that are run or should be run on totally socialist ideals you say of course them, but that's not socialism. You claim that socialism does not work but every advantage you have in life (unless you are a member of the aristocracy) has been gained through your forebears fighting socialist ideals. You claim that capitalism is the only workable system but every 10 years or so we witness the collapse of capitalism due to the greed of the mega-wealthy which is followed by a socialist bailout of those greedy fucks by governments that claim to be anti socialism when what they mean is anti socialism for all but the most wealthy. The result is that in the last 9 years the poorest 20% of the country have seen their spending power reduce by between 25 and 100% while the top 1% have doubled their wealth.
As for what the general population believe and want:
96% want police run as a public service not as a for profit private business.
93% want schools run as a public service.
89% want the NHS run as a public service.
76% Royal Mail, 71% railways, 70% Water, 63% energy (that's gas and electricity), and nobodies even thought that we need polling on the military, coastguard, fire service or roads.
Fact is when it comes to our vital national infrastructure if you really believe that they should be hostage to the whims of the capitalist markets you are very much in the minority. But somehow I suspect that if your honest you are on my side for at least the services listed above. As for other things I want a highly regulated market. After all it's less than 30 years since the agrifeed industry were willing to feed us all bio-hazard meat in the name of extra profit, not to mention the millions the tobacco industry still kill for profit!
Capitalism is a fatally flawed system that has convinced most of us that we need to be willing to die so it can survive. I think maybe you are one who has fully bought into that death cult.
Thanks Wolfie . I am now fully educated. "POWER TO THE PEOPLE""
Ermmmmm one thing. You point to me as being an evil capitalist for some reason. No idea why I get the Will treatment LOL as I agree that many public services are best left in public hands but....... some are not. Do you miss British rail cheese sandwiches or something ?
The Majority of people in this country are pragmatists not socialists or capitalists. As I said the mix of the economy is somewhere in the middle. Full blown socialism or perhaps Marxism leads to things like Chernobyl.
As I said we'll never see eye to eye and I find your accusation that I am an evil capitalist laughable. You make me sound like a nasty Tory LOL. I'd align myself more with the Ken Clarks and DOminic Grieves of this world. If you consider them to be nasty Tories then there really is no hope for us to ever agree on much LOL. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Both systems are flawed on their own, but if combined they can compliment each other quite well, but there must be a balance, not too greedy or not too selfless, just in the middle."
Ta da.
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