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Amended withdrawal agreement
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"Boris Johnson’s EU withdrawal agreement bill has been published, with protections on workers’ rights totally removed. Changes to the unaccompanied refugee children policy watered down from a legal commitment to a mere aim to do more for them. The removal of legislation to update parliament over future eu negotiations and removal of voting on key issues." Doesn’t look good, now why would he remove protections on workers rights?  | |||
"Boris Johnson’s EU withdrawal agreement bill has been published, with protections on workers’ rights totally removed. Changes to the unaccompanied refugee children policy watered down from a legal commitment to a mere aim to do more for them. The removal of legislation to update parliament over future eu negotiations and removal of voting on key issues." Anyone even vaguely suprised by this needs to take a long hard look at themselves. | |||
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"Happy days" I suppose workers rights are irrelevant to you anyway, as you don’t work | |||
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"Boris Johnson’s EU withdrawal agreement bill has been published, with protections on workers’ rights totally removed. Changes to the unaccompanied refugee children policy watered down from a legal commitment to a mere aim to do more for them. The removal of legislation to update parliament over future eu negotiations and removal of voting on key issues." Why would anyone be surprised by this? It's the inevitable outcome of voting for a bunch of lying shysters | |||
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"Which workers rights are being removed?....simply asking as I cannot understand where rights are being eroded or not." Maternity leave, paid holiday and minimum wage, apparently.... Oh, wait a minute... | |||
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"It doesnt surprise me that they have taken away it, they dont like to give right to people." Not taken away, just moved elsewhere. | |||
"It doesnt surprise me that they have taken away it, they dont like to give right to people. Not taken away, just moved elsewhere. " Yes it might of. | |||
"Well they should have passed it before Boris got a whopping big powerful majority ... "There was a debate about this long ago. This is nothing new. Probably the average voter didn't know. | |||
"Boris Johnson’s EU withdrawal agreement bill has been published, with protections on workers’ rights totally removed. Changes to the unaccompanied refugee children policy watered down from a legal commitment to a mere aim to do more for them. The removal of legislation to update parliament over future eu negotiations and removal of voting on key issues. Doesn’t look good, now why would he remove protections on workers rights? "Let's put it this way, if we are the turkeys who voted for Christmas then this is a chopping block. I'd be nervously eyeing the calendar.... | |||
"Well they should have passed it before Boris got a whopping big powerful majority ...
There was a debate about this long ago. This is nothing new. Probably the average voter didn't know."The did know. They just called it "project fear". The process is. 1. If we leave XYZ might happen. 2. Leavers label this information project fear. 3. XYZ happens. 4. Leavers say it's not important, or it's a good thing, or blame remainers. And repeat with next issue. | |||
"It doesnt surprise me that they have taken away it, they dont like to give right to people. Not taken away, just moved elsewhere. " | |||
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"They are still trying to scare people now. Look at it this way Boris don’t amazing job when he was mayor of London. And look how bad it’s turned now. Hopefully Boris will make Britain great again. " We have had a conservative government for nearly 10 years, why is it taking so long to make us ‘great again’? | |||
"It doesnt surprise me that they have taken away it, they dont like to give right to people. Not taken away, just moved elsewhere. "Fair enough, if that is the case then our rights will be the same as they are now ? | |||
"The further GB (not the UK) drifts from EU standards on the environment, workplace protections etc, the more unlikely a comprehensive free-trade agreement with the EU becomes. " Boris will take any deal they shove in front of him. He will then tell us what a fantastic job he's donevand what an advantageous deal it is. Then the fawning Johnson fan club will ooooh and aaaaah. | |||
"It doesnt surprise me that they have taken away it, they dont like to give right to people. Not taken away, just moved elsewhere.
Fair enough, if that is the case then our rights will be the same as they are now ? "Have yours changed yet? I hope they will improve over time, but all I see at the moment is unfounded rumours from the usual suspects. | |||
"It doesnt surprise me that they have taken away it, they dont like to give right to people. Not taken away, just moved elsewhere.
Fair enough, if that is the case then our rights will be the same as they are now ?
Have yours changed yet? I hope they will improve over time, but all I see at the moment is unfounded rumours from the usual suspects."No they haven’t changed , but we haven’t left the EU, can you assure me that they will stay the same or improve after Brexit? | |||
"It doesnt surprise me that they have taken away it, they dont like to give right to people. Not taken away, just moved elsewhere.
Fair enough, if that is the case then our rights will be the same as they are now ?
Have yours changed yet? I hope they will improve over time, but all I see at the moment is unfounded rumours from the usual suspects.
No they haven’t changed , but we haven’t left the EU, can you assure me that they will stay the same or improve after Brexit? "What rights are you worried about specifically ? | |||
"It doesnt surprise me that they have taken away it, they dont like to give right to people. Not taken away, just moved elsewhere.
Fair enough, if that is the case then our rights will be the same as they are now ?
Have yours changed yet? I hope they will improve over time, but all I see at the moment is unfounded rumours from the usual suspects.
No they haven’t changed , but we haven’t left the EU, can you assure me that they will stay the same or improve after Brexit? What rights are you worried about specifically ?"My workers rights, pensions, holidays, sick pay, paternity leave etc. Will leaving the EU detrimentally affect them, simple yes or no | |||
"It doesnt surprise me that they have taken away it, they dont like to give right to people. Not taken away, just moved elsewhere.
Fair enough, if that is the case then our rights will be the same as they are now ?
Have yours changed yet? I hope they will improve over time, but all I see at the moment is unfounded rumours from the usual suspects.
No they haven’t changed , but we haven’t left the EU, can you assure me that they will stay the same or improve after Brexit? What rights are you worried about specifically ?
My workers rights, pensions, holidays, sick pay, paternity leave etc. Will leaving the EU detrimentally affect them, simple yes or no "No doubt it very much we had sick pay,pensions,holidays before we joined the eu not sure about paternity pay but cant see it being a vote winner getting rid of it. | |||
"It doesnt surprise me that they have taken away it, they dont like to give right to people. Not taken away, just moved elsewhere.
Fair enough, if that is the case then our rights will be the same as they are now ?
Have yours changed yet? I hope they will improve over time, but all I see at the moment is unfounded rumours from the usual suspects.
No they haven’t changed , but we haven’t left the EU, can you assure me that they will stay the same or improve after Brexit? What rights are you worried about specifically ?
My workers rights, pensions, holidays, sick pay, paternity leave etc. Will leaving the EU detrimentally affect them, simple yes or no No doubt it very much we had sick pay,pensions,holidays before we joined the eu not sure about paternity pay but cant see it being a vote winner getting rid of it."I hope you are right, but nobody knows for sure yet | |||
"It doesnt surprise me that they have taken away it, they dont like to give right to people. Not taken away, just moved elsewhere.
Fair enough, if that is the case then our rights will be the same as they are now ?
Have yours changed yet? I hope they will improve over time, but all I see at the moment is unfounded rumours from the usual suspects.
No they haven’t changed , but we haven’t left the EU, can you assure me that they will stay the same or improve after Brexit? What rights are you worried about specifically ?
My workers rights, pensions, holidays, sick pay, paternity leave etc. Will leaving the EU detrimentally affect them, simple yes or no No doubt it very much we had sick pay,pensions,holidays before we joined the eu not sure about paternity pay but cant see it being a vote winner getting rid of it.
I hope you are right, but nobody knows for sure yet "You will put yourself in an early grave mate worrying about stuff that might happen,chill out enjoy the fact we now have a strong and stable government at last.I am taking a rest from this forum now as boris got in brexit will be achieved and theres not really much to talk about until parliament resumes.Happy xmas have a good one. | |||
"It doesnt surprise me that they have taken away it, they dont like to give right to people. Not taken away, just moved elsewhere.
Fair enough, if that is the case then our rights will be the same as they are now ?
Have yours changed yet? I hope they will improve over time, but all I see at the moment is unfounded rumours from the usual suspects.
No they haven’t changed , but we haven’t left the EU, can you assure me that they will stay the same or improve after Brexit? What rights are you worried about specifically ?
My workers rights, pensions, holidays, sick pay, paternity leave etc. Will leaving the EU detrimentally affect them, simple yes or no No doubt it very much we had sick pay,pensions,holidays before we joined the eu not sure about paternity pay but cant see it being a vote winner getting rid of it.
I hope you are right, but nobody knows for sure yet You will put yourself in an early grave mate worrying about stuff that might happen,chill out enjoy the fact we now have a strong and stable government at last.I am taking a rest from this forum now as boris got in brexit will be achieved and theres not really much to talk about until parliament resumes.Happy xmas have a good one. "You too Costa. Have a good rest  See you in the new year. | |||
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"Because there was the mess that Labour left us in. Remember the "theres no money left note" "  | |||
"Boris Johnson’s EU withdrawal agreement bill has been published, with protections on workers’ rights totally removed. Changes to the unaccompanied refugee children policy watered down from a legal commitment to a mere aim to do more for them. The removal of legislation to update parliament over future eu negotiations and removal of voting on key issues. Doesn’t look good, now why would he remove protections on workers rights? "Because he gives no fucks for workers. | |||
"It doesnt surprise me that they have taken away it, they dont like to give right to people. Not taken away, just moved elsewhere.
Fair enough, if that is the case then our rights will be the same as they are now ?
Have yours changed yet? I hope they will improve over time, but all I see at the moment is unfounded rumours from the usual suspects.
No they haven’t changed , but we haven’t left the EU, can you assure me that they will stay the same or improve after Brexit? "I can't assure you anything, I don't run the country  But I do know the Conservatives have said they will not be made worse and the aim is to improve them. | |||
"Because there was the mess that Labour left us in. Remember the "theres no money left note" " You would have preferred a depression to a recession? | |||
"Because there was the mess that Labour left us in. Remember the "theres no money left note" " I'm still not sure how the Labour party managed to make all of those American banks go bust, taking a bunch of our own down with them, and kicking off a global financial collapse. It was quite an acheivement without a doubt, but no one has ever explained to me how they managed it. | |||
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"As I believe it, part of the deal was to guarantee UK workers rights stayed equal to or above EU standards. Now by removing this guarantee we have to trust in the Tories to maintain these rights. Not a situation I am happy with. " Removing workers rights, environmental protection and other "red tape" has always been one of the corner stones of brexit. | |||
" Removing workers rights, environmental protection and other "red tape" has always been one of the corner stones of brexit. " Yes. The Brexiteers want to compete rather than co-operate. How will the UK gain a competitive advantage over the single market? What rules will we relax? What costs will we remove? | |||
" Removing workers rights, environmental protection and other "red tape" has always been one of the corner stones of brexit. Yes. The Brexiteers want to compete rather than co-operate. How will the UK gain a competitive advantage over the single market? What rules will we relax? What costs will we remove? " Maybe we'll reduce paid holidays, maternity leave and the minimum wage to EU minimum legal requirements? | |||
"As I believe it, part of the deal was to guarantee UK workers rights stayed equal to or above EU standards. Now by removing this guarantee we have to trust in the Tories to maintain these rights. Not a situation I am happy with. " The EU issued a series of notices to member states, setting out the legal position in each sector during the transitional phase after UK formally leaves. Each notice says the business continuity arrangement is contingent upon the UK maintaining existing standards on things like the environment, workplace protections etc. In each notice, the EU says it reserves the right to amend, reduce or revoke the scope of these agreements in the event the UK waters down any of these standards. | |||
"As I believe it, part of the deal was to guarantee UK workers rights stayed equal to or above EU standards. Now by removing this guarantee we have to trust in the Tories to maintain these rights. Not a situation I am happy with. The EU issued a series of notices to member states, setting out the legal position in each sector during the transitional phase after UK formally leaves. Each notice says the business continuity arrangement is contingent upon the UK maintaining existing standards on things like the environment, workplace protections etc. In each notice, the EU says it reserves the right to amend, reduce or revoke the scope of these agreements in the event the UK waters down any of these standards. " Is that existing EU standards or existing UK standards? Our standards on maternity leave, paid holidays and minimum wage are higher than the EU's requirements. | |||
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"The EU has a regulation about a minimum wage?" No they don't, which is another example of where the UK has higher employment standards than the EU. But what about maternity leave and paid holidays? | |||
"The EU has a regulation about a minimum wage? No they don't, which is another example of where the UK has higher employment standards than the EU. " Not really. It just means it is a decision for sovereign states, not the EU. Luxembourg, Germany, France, Ireland and Netherlands all have higher rates than the UK. | |||
"The EU has a regulation about a minimum wage? No they don't, which is another example of where the UK has higher employment standards than the EU. Not really. It just means it is a decision for sovereign states, not the EU. Luxembourg, Germany, France, Ireland and Netherlands all have higher rates than the UK." And what about paid holidays and maternity leave, where our standards are higher than the EU's? | |||
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"And what about paid holidays and maternity leave, where our standards are higher than the EU's? " Every single country in the EU has some claim where they are better in one area or another. This is because we all work off the same baseline. If youre crumpling up the baseline and throwing it in the bin, then you can no longer make any claims about being better than the EU until the new baseline is set in pace, and legally tested. Like sen cant say "Well we are the best in europe for rights of migrant children between the age of 10 and 18 so therefore we would do better outside our EU partnership deals and throwing all EU standards in the bin. Our people would in fact have more rights. Believe it when you see it, and all they have done so far is erode rights in the UK. | |||
"What is the UK rule for paid holidays that is different from the EU standard? How many more weeks per year must UK employers give their staff? " I suggest you look it up. Weren't you mistaken about travel to the EU as well on another thread? | |||
"What is the UK rule for paid holidays that is different from the EU standard? How many more weeks per year must UK employers give their staff? I suggest you look it up. Weren't you mistaken about travel to the EU as well on another thread?" If you look it up you will find that until EU law was introduced there was no holiday entitlement in the UK at all. You will also discover that the UK government really did not to introduce this minimum. If you look it up you will find that the UK has a fixed number of Bank Holidays which some employers were including in the minimum holiday entitlement. Hence the legislation to add 8 days for public holidays. Finally, if you look it up you will discover that in most of Europe public holidays fall on specific dates, sometimes weekdays, sometimes not. Depending on the calendar this can leave to a varying number of public holidays a year. Sometimes more than that regulated for in the UK, sometimes less. So, no idea what point you were making, but we'll done | |||
"Boris Johnson’s EU withdrawal agreement bill has been published, with protections on workers’ rights totally removed. Changes to the unaccompanied refugee children policy watered down from a legal commitment to a mere aim to do more for them. The removal of legislation to update parliament over future eu negotiations and removal of voting on key issues." We have to trust the government on workers rights. The EU wants identical legislation to roll over current rules, but if you cannot water these rights down it becomes harder to make your workforce "more competent" = cheaper. Easier to reduce collective bargaining and therefore wages if striking becomes harder. Child refugees are a genuine threat to the country and...
Dominic Cummings and some rich people have taken the country back for their own agenda.
Parliamentary sovereignty and judicial independence aren't what we need  | |||
"They are still trying to scare people now. Look at it this way Boris don’t amazing job when he was mayor of London. And look how bad it’s turned now. Hopefully Boris will make Britain great again. "
London riots
Garden bridge
Water cannon
Estuary airport
Jennifer Acuri | |||
"It doesnt surprise me that they have taken away it, they dont like to give right to people. Not taken away, just moved elsewhere. " Current rights are not guaranteed in the Employment bill. There are new proposals for various things. Workers' rights can be degraded or improved as Parliament sees fit. There is just no minimum as defined by the EU. | |||
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"Welcome to Brexit, muthafuccas. Expect more, much more, of the same and worse. We tried telling you. The whole fucking world told you it is a bad idea but hey, you went on ahead and voted him in or didn't to keep him out by failing to agree an electoral pact. UK is soooo screwed, and not in a good way. Sad thing is a lot of very good, lovely people are going to suffer hugely while a few rich toffs get even richer on your backs. It's not too late but fuck me. you've made it harder for yourselves." It is too late. As many people constantly say we apparently "can't tell what the future holds" even with analysis, data, history and experience. We will apparently have to wait until we look at in retrospect and even if then it will be someone else's fault if it turns out badly. My guess the Muslims or remainers. Possibly still the EU. If it turns out well then credit where it's due, but the benefits are yet to be stated beyond vague promises of glory and prosperity over some unspecified timescale. | |||
"God this gets fucking boring. Quick let's all bow to the alter of the EU cause no other government can possibly function or be any good without it. The world is bigger than the EU! We can have a good relationship with them, we aren't looking to put up a wall and ban all migration, we aren't looking to introduce some sort of bloody ethnic cleansing. You can be friends with Europe and Europeans with out being part of the EU. It literally just requires both side to say yes we want to. " What are the benefits of leaving over staying? We already know the terms of maintaining our relationship. They didn't make any concessions for the transition agreement and as we have created an artificial time limit they won't do so again. They'll trade with us quite happily. We will just pay more as customers for what we buy from them. They will buy from each other rather than us. We will pay more to get technical staff from the EU through red tape and having to compensate in salaries for the hostile environment which is now perceived. Which part doesn't make sense? | |||
"God this gets fucking boring. Quick let's all bow to the alter of the EU cause no other government can possibly function or be any good without it. The world is bigger than the EU! We can have a good relationship with them, we aren't looking to put up a wall and ban all migration, we aren't looking to introduce some sort of bloody ethnic cleansing. You can be friends with Europe and Europeans with out being part of the EU. It literally just requires both side to say yes we want to. What are the benefits of leaving over staying? We already know the terms of maintaining our relationship. They didn't make any concessions for the transition agreement and as we have created an artificial time limit they won't do so again. They'll trade with us quite happily. We will just pay more as customers for what we buy from them. They will buy from each other rather than us. We will pay more to get technical staff from the EU through red tape and having to compensate in salaries for the hostile environment which is now perceived. Which part doesn't make sense?" I've told you before, it's pointless debating with you. You want a bloody university dissertation every time anyone dares to have a different opinion to yourself. You are incapable of saying what the terms of the EU membership will be in 5 year or 10 years or 15 years, yet you expect everyone who voted leave to do so. Life is not certain, I'm saddened by the fact you can't deal with that, but really I don't care if it keeps you up at night. We leave, we will forge new relationships in the world, life will go on, the sky will not fall down. | |||
"God this gets fucking boring. Quick let's all bow to the alter of the EU cause no other government can possibly function or be any good without it. The world is bigger than the EU! We can have a good relationship with them, we aren't looking to put up a wall and ban all migration, we aren't looking to introduce some sort of bloody ethnic cleansing. You can be friends with Europe and Europeans with out being part of the EU. It literally just requires both side to say yes we want to. What are the benefits of leaving over staying? We already know the terms of maintaining our relationship. They didn't make any concessions for the transition agreement and as we have created an artificial time limit they won't do so again. They'll trade with us quite happily. We will just pay more as customers for what we buy from them. They will buy from each other rather than us. We will pay more to get technical staff from the EU through red tape and having to compensate in salaries for the hostile environment which is now perceived. Which part doesn't make sense? I've told you before, it's pointless debating with you. You want a bloody university dissertation every time anyone dares to have a different opinion to yourself. You are incapable of saying what the terms of the EU membership will be in 5 year or 10 years or 15 years, yet you expect everyone who voted leave to do so. Life is not certain, I'm saddened by the fact you can't deal with that, but really I don't care if it keeps you up at night. We leave, we will forge new relationships in the world, life will go on, the sky will not fall down. " The best thing to do is to ignore . Anything else is pointless, it really is | |||
"God this gets fucking boring. Quick let's all bow to the alter of the EU cause no other government can possibly function or be any good without it. The world is bigger than the EU! We can have a good relationship with them, we aren't looking to put up a wall and ban all migration, we aren't looking to introduce some sort of bloody ethnic cleansing. You can be friends with Europe and Europeans with out being part of the EU. It literally just requires both side to say yes we want to. What are the benefits of leaving over staying? We already know the terms of maintaining our relationship. They didn't make any concessions for the transition agreement and as we have created an artificial time limit they won't do so again. They'll trade with us quite happily. We will just pay more as customers for what we buy from them. They will buy from each other rather than us. We will pay more to get technical staff from the EU through red tape and having to compensate in salaries for the hostile environment which is now perceived. Which part doesn't make sense? I've told you before, it's pointless debating with you. You want a bloody university dissertation every time anyone dares to have a different opinion to yourself. You are incapable of saying what the terms of the EU membership will be in 5 year or 10 years or 15 years, yet you expect everyone who voted leave to do so. Life is not certain, I'm saddened by the fact you can't deal with that, but really I don't care if it keeps you up at night. We leave, we will forge new relationships in the world, life will go on, the sky will not fall down. The best thing to do is to ignore . Anything else is pointless, it really is" yep I know you're right, sometimes it's kinda hard though lol | |||
"What is the UK rule for paid holidays that is different from the EU standard? How many more weeks per year must UK employers give their staff? I suggest you look it up. Weren't you mistaken about travel to the EU as well on another thread? If you look it up you will find that until EU law was introduced there was no holiday entitlement in the UK at all. You will also discover that the UK government really did not to introduce this minimum. If you look it up you will find that the UK has a fixed number of Bank Holidays which some employers were including in the minimum holiday entitlement. Hence the legislation to add 8 days for public holidays. Finally, if you look it up you will discover that in most of Europe public holidays fall on specific dates, sometimes weekdays, sometimes not. Depending on the calendar this can leave to a varying number of public holidays a year. Sometimes more than that regulated for in the UK, sometimes less. So, no idea what point you were making, but we'll done "Holidays with Pay Act 1938. | |||
"God this gets fucking boring. Quick let's all bow to the alter of the EU cause no other government can possibly function or be any good without it. The world is bigger than the EU! We can have a good relationship with them, we aren't looking to put up a wall and ban all migration, we aren't looking to introduce some sort of bloody ethnic cleansing. You can be friends with Europe and Europeans with out being part of the EU. It literally just requires both side to say yes we want to. What are the benefits of leaving over staying? We already know the terms of maintaining our relationship. They didn't make any concessions for the transition agreement and as we have created an artificial time limit they won't do so again. They'll trade with us quite happily. We will just pay more as customers for what we buy from them. They will buy from each other rather than us. We will pay more to get technical staff from the EU through red tape and having to compensate in salaries for the hostile environment which is now perceived. Which part doesn't make sense? I've told you before, it's pointless debating with you. You want a bloody university dissertation every time anyone dares to have a different opinion to yourself. You are incapable of saying what the terms of the EU membership will be in 5 year or 10 years or 15 years, yet you expect everyone who voted leave to do so. Life is not certain, I'm saddened by the fact you can't deal with that, but really I don't care if it keeps you up at night. We leave, we will forge new relationships in the world, life will go on, the sky will not fall down. " Looks like we've both got the same myopic blinkered troll! | |||
"What is the UK rule for paid holidays that is different from the EU standard? How many more weeks per year must UK employers give their staff? I suggest you look it up. Weren't you mistaken about travel to the EU as well on another thread? If you look it up you will find that until EU law was introduced there was no holiday entitlement in the UK at all. You will also discover that the UK government really did not to introduce this minimum. If you look it up you will find that the UK has a fixed number of Bank Holidays which some employers were including in the minimum holiday entitlement. Hence the legislation to add 8 days for public holidays. Finally, if you look it up you will discover that in most of Europe public holidays fall on specific dates, sometimes weekdays, sometimes not. Depending on the calendar this can leave to a varying number of public holidays a year. Sometimes more than that regulated for in the UK, sometimes less. So, no idea what point you were making, but we'll done
Holidays with Pay Act 1938."That was repealed and I think the majority of it is now covered by the European working time directive. | |||
"What is the UK rule for paid holidays that is different from the EU standard? How many more weeks per year must UK employers give their staff? I suggest you look it up. Weren't you mistaken about travel to the EU as well on another thread?" I should look it up? Lololol You were the one who said the UK has higher standards than the EU across maternity, holidays and minimum wage. The minimum wage is already debunked and it looks like your holiday claim is bunkum, too. lol | |||
"What is the UK rule for paid holidays that is different from the EU standard? How many more weeks per year must UK employers give their staff? I suggest you look it up. Weren't you mistaken about travel to the EU as well on another thread? If you look it up you will find that until EU law was introduced there was no holiday entitlement in the UK at all. You will also discover that the UK government really did not to introduce this minimum. If you look it up you will find that the UK has a fixed number of Bank Holidays which some employers were including in the minimum holiday entitlement. Hence the legislation to add 8 days for public holidays. Finally, if you look it up you will discover that in most of Europe public holidays fall on specific dates, sometimes weekdays, sometimes not. Depending on the calendar this can leave to a varying number of public holidays a year. Sometimes more than that regulated for in the UK, sometimes less. So, no idea what point you were making, but we'll done
Holidays with Pay Act 1938."That was one week's holiday for those on the lowest wages. So on a point of detail I was in error. There was some holiday legislation in place. A long way from a universal holiday entitlement and even that limited right was well under 20 days. It also doesn't change the fact that EU legislation drove both the legislation that covered everyone and set a minimum well above what existed for some people. So, again the UK holiday entitlement can on some years provide more holiday than other EU countries. Having been "forced" (in an agreement) to provide a minimum amount of holiday to everyone by the EU we added some additional days to maintain our Bank Holiday traditions. | |||
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"God this gets fucking boring. Quick let's all bow to the alter of the EU cause no other government can possibly function or be any good without it. The world is bigger than the EU! We can have a good relationship with them, we aren't looking to put up a wall and ban all migration, we aren't looking to introduce some sort of bloody ethnic cleansing. You can be friends with Europe and Europeans with out being part of the EU. It literally just requires both side to say yes we want to. What are the benefits of leaving over staying? We already know the terms of maintaining our relationship. They didn't make any concessions for the transition agreement and as we have created an artificial time limit they won't do so again. They'll trade with us quite happily. We will just pay more as customers for what we buy from them. They will buy from each other rather than us. We will pay more to get technical staff from the EU through red tape and having to compensate in salaries for the hostile environment which is now perceived. Which part doesn't make sense? I've told you before, it's pointless debating with you. You want a bloody university dissertation every time anyone dares to have a different opinion to yourself. You are incapable of saying what the terms of the EU membership will be in 5 year or 10 years or 15 years, yet you expect everyone who voted leave to do so. Life is not certain, I'm saddened by the fact you can't deal with that, but really I don't care if it keeps you up at night. We leave, we will forge new relationships in the world, life will go on, the sky will not fall down. " I will always question an empty sound-bite. I didn't ask for a complicated response, just some thought to be applied to a simple counter-argument. I have not said that it's impossible to continue outside the EU, so why argue against that? All I am asking is for the benefit of complicating our existing relationship with the EU for unknown benefit or loss. We can "forge new relationships in the world" right now. The EU just has with Canada and Japan. Germany forges bigger financial relationships with China right now than we do and we have a trade surplus with the USA. Both from within the EU. You cannot answer what benefit you hope for. So, quite frankly, your frustration is fine with me, it just displays your inability to explain the point of the disruption and division that is being caused. | |||
"God this gets fucking boring. Quick let's all bow to the alter of the EU cause no other government can possibly function or be any good without it. The world is bigger than the EU! We can have a good relationship with them, we aren't looking to put up a wall and ban all migration, we aren't looking to introduce some sort of bloody ethnic cleansing. You can be friends with Europe and Europeans with out being part of the EU. It literally just requires both side to say yes we want to. What are the benefits of leaving over staying? We already know the terms of maintaining our relationship. They didn't make any concessions for the transition agreement and as we have created an artificial time limit they won't do so again. They'll trade with us quite happily. We will just pay more as customers for what we buy from them. They will buy from each other rather than us. We will pay more to get technical staff from the EU through red tape and having to compensate in salaries for the hostile environment which is now perceived. Which part doesn't make sense? I've told you before, it's pointless debating with you. You want a bloody university dissertation every time anyone dares to have a different opinion to yourself. You are incapable of saying what the terms of the EU membership will be in 5 year or 10 years or 15 years, yet you expect everyone who voted leave to do so. Life is not certain, I'm saddened by the fact you can't deal with that, but really I don't care if it keeps you up at night. We leave, we will forge new relationships in the world, life will go on, the sky will not fall down. The best thing to do is to ignore . Anything else is pointless, it really is"
Yet you set up an entire thread to obsess about me and give the trolls an opportunity to insult me.
I suggest that everyone who has a problem with me questioning their authority goes and posts on it. Save filling up other threads | |||
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"God this gets fucking boring. Quick let's all bow to the alter of the EU cause no other government can possibly function or be any good without it. The world is bigger than the EU! We can have a good relationship with them, we aren't looking to put up a wall and ban all migration, we aren't looking to introduce some sort of bloody ethnic cleansing. You can be friends with Europe and Europeans with out being part of the EU. It literally just requires both side to say yes we want to. What are the benefits of leaving over staying? We already know the terms of maintaining our relationship. They didn't make any concessions for the transition agreement and as we have created an artificial time limit they won't do so again. They'll trade with us quite happily. We will just pay more as customers for what we buy from them. They will buy from each other rather than us. We will pay more to get technical staff from the EU through red tape and having to compensate in salaries for the hostile environment which is now perceived. Which part doesn't make sense? I've told you before, it's pointless debating with you. You want a bloody university dissertation every time anyone dares to have a different opinion to yourself. You are incapable of saying what the terms of the EU membership will be in 5 year or 10 years or 15 years, yet you expect everyone who voted leave to do so. Life is not certain, I'm saddened by the fact you can't deal with that, but really I don't care if it keeps you up at night. We leave, we will forge new relationships in the world, life will go on, the sky will not fall down. I will always question an empty sound-bite. I didn't ask for a complicated response, just some thought to be applied to a simple counter-argument. I have not said that it's impossible to continue outside the EU, so why argue against that? All I am asking is for the benefit of complicating our existing relationship with the EU for unknown benefit or loss. We can "forge new relationships in the world" right now. The EU just has with Canada and Japan. Germany forges bigger financial relationships with China right now than we do and we have a trade surplus with the USA. Both from within the EU. You cannot answer what benefit you hope for. So, quite frankly, your frustration is fine with me, it just displays your inability to explain the point of the disruption and division that is being caused." You still don't get it do you. We cannot forge new relationships for the UK with the world. EU agreements are what is best for the EU, not for individual member states. What works for us might not be the same as Germany, or Greece, or Spain and vice versa. So a large number of agreements are not in the UK's interest. As for people not answering your questions, that's very simple, your expectations are ridiculous, you want vast amounts of information to back up any point, large numbers of people use phones to access this site, they cannot provide a million and one links and in-depth explanations. Also your "style" of questioning needs seriously looking at, your endless barrages of questions are only ever going to be interpreted as hostile and aggressive, therefore people will not bother to respond in a positive way to you. | |||
" EU agreements are what is best for the EU, not for individual member states. What works for us might not be the same as Germany, or Greece, or Spain and vice versa. So a large number of agreements are not in the UK's interest. " What agreements negotiated on our behalf by the EU are against the interests of the UK? | |||
" EU agreements are what is best for the EU, not for individual member states. What works for us might not be the same as Germany, or Greece, or Spain and vice versa. So a large number of agreements are not in the UK's interest. What agreements negotiated on our behalf by the EU are against the interests of the UK?" I will not be providing some sort of extensive list, however there are tariff controls for all sorts of agricultural products that are not in the UK'S interest but are for other member states, also other industrial components and materials. That part of my post is not intended to be a specific dig at the EU being crap, just an example of how when trying to sort agreements for multiple members, unless those members are the same, then some lose out while others win. | |||
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" I will not be providing some sort of extensive list, " Well, you did say it was a "large number" right enough. Perhaps there isn't room on the internet to list them all. | |||
" I will not be providing some sort of extensive list, Well, you did say it was a "large number" right enough. Perhaps there isn't room on the internet to list them all. " No there is not room on my phone to try typing out some sort of consolidated list. Feel free to Google EU tariffs, then cross reference them with the gross production of each of the member states so you can see which ones work for what country. | |||
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"Okay, let's assume you are correct. The UK can veto any trade agreement put forward by the EU. Why, if these agreements are so detrimental, did the UK ratify rather than veto them?" Because they are not always to the detriment of the UK at the time, then once adopted, we cannot change them. VAT is another example, under EU law, you cannot have flexibility to the level we want, you can have no VAT, reduced VAT or full VAT. So if you want to lower the rate on a certain item to benefit a certain part of society from the current 20% to say 10% you can't as you'd need to class is as reduced rate (currently 5%). So you either take it to 5% which may reduce the tax take to the point it's not viable, or you raise the reduced rate to 10% making everything else that uses that rate more expensive. | |||
"Social EU legislation, which supposedly leads to better working conditions, has not saved one job and is riddled with opt-outs for employers to largely ignore any perceived benefits they may bring to workers. But it is making zero-hour contracts and agency-working the norm while undermining collective bargaining and full-time, secure employment. The only way that worker's rights are protected is by strong unionisation." Opt outs are a choice the UK took. Sovereignty is, apparently, a thing. | |||
"Okay, let's assume you are correct. The UK can veto any trade agreement put forward by the EU. Why, if these agreements are so detrimental, did the UK ratify rather than veto them? Because they are not always to the detriment of the UK at the time, then once adopted, we cannot change them. VAT is another example, under EU law, you cannot have flexibility to the level we want, you can have no VAT, reduced VAT or full VAT. So if you want to lower the rate on a certain item to benefit a certain part of society from the current 20% to say 10% you can't as you'd need to class is as reduced rate (currently 5%). So you either take it to 5% which may reduce the tax take to the point it's not viable, or you raise the reduced rate to 10% making everything else that uses that rate more expensive. " So you are saying the UK Government is too dumb to understand what it voted for? Okay Do you think the member states of the union of the UK should also be able to exercise a veto over trade agreements negotiated by the central bureaucracy when deemed not to be in their interests? | |||
"Okay, let's assume you are correct. The UK can veto any trade agreement put forward by the EU. Why, if these agreements are so detrimental, did the UK ratify rather than veto them? Because they are not always to the detriment of the UK at the time, then once adopted, we cannot change them. VAT is another example, under EU law, you cannot have flexibility to the level we want, you can have no VAT, reduced VAT or full VAT. So if you want to lower the rate on a certain item to benefit a certain part of society from the current 20% to say 10% you can't as you'd need to class is as reduced rate (currently 5%). So you either take it to 5% which may reduce the tax take to the point it's not viable, or you raise the reduced rate to 10% making everything else that uses that rate more expensive. So you are saying the UK Government is too dumb to understand what it voted for? Okay Do you think the member states of the union of the UK should also be able to exercise a veto over trade agreements negotiated by the central bureaucracy when deemed not to be in their interests? " No I'm saying that not everything has stayed the same in the last 40 plus years. But once something is agreed within the EU we can't go back and veto it can we. You are looking at the whole of the evolution of the EU as if it is a series of yes or no answers. Not everything the EU negotiates is bad for us, but a lack of flexibility to react in ways to boost or stabilise the UK domestic market because it infringes EU laws can cause us problems. The issue is the same with other countries, Italy for example has certain ideas about what they believe will be good for their economic situation (whether it is or isn't is a matter for the Italians to decide), however they are being threatened with fines if they implement it. The same happened with Greece, they were not able to flex their internal economy as much as they needed to and it ended up with them needed a massive bailout. | |||
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"What about the union of the UK? Should member states have a veto, like they do in EU?" They already do on some things via devolved governments. And to preempt the next question, no parts of the UK cannot veto leaving the EU. The joining was negotiated for the UK as a whole and the act of union that joins the UK together is a very different agreement compared to the EU one. If a part of the UK union wants to stay in the EU, then they should vote to leave the UK union and apply to rejoin the EU as a country in their own right. | |||
"God this gets fucking boring. Quick let's all bow to the alter of the EU cause no other government can possibly function or be any good without it. The world is bigger than the EU! We can have a good relationship with them, we aren't looking to put up a wall and ban all migration, we aren't looking to introduce some sort of bloody ethnic cleansing. You can be friends with Europe and Europeans with out being part of the EU. It literally just requires both side to say yes we want to. What are the benefits of leaving over staying? We already know the terms of maintaining our relationship. They didn't make any concessions for the transition agreement and as we have created an artificial time limit they won't do so again. They'll trade with us quite happily. We will just pay more as customers for what we buy from them. They will buy from each other rather than us. We will pay more to get technical staff from the EU through red tape and having to compensate in salaries for the hostile environment which is now perceived. Which part doesn't make sense? I've told you before, it's pointless debating with you. You want a bloody university dissertation every time anyone dares to have a different opinion to yourself. You are incapable of saying what the terms of the EU membership will be in 5 year or 10 years or 15 years, yet you expect everyone who voted leave to do so. Life is not certain, I'm saddened by the fact you can't deal with that, but really I don't care if it keeps you up at night. We leave, we will forge new relationships in the world, life will go on, the sky will not fall down. I will always question an empty sound-bite. I didn't ask for a complicated response, just some thought to be applied to a simple counter-argument. I have not said that it's impossible to continue outside the EU, so why argue against that? All I am asking is for the benefit of complicating our existing relationship with the EU for unknown benefit or loss. We can "forge new relationships in the world" right now. The EU just has with Canada and Japan. Germany forges bigger financial relationships with China right now than we do and we have a trade surplus with the USA. Both from within the EU. You cannot answer what benefit you hope for. So, quite frankly, your frustration is fine with me, it just displays your inability to explain the point of the disruption and division that is being caused. You still don't get it do you. We cannot forge new relationships for the UK with the world. EU agreements are what is best for the EU, not for individual member states. What works for us might not be the same as Germany, or Greece, or Spain and vice versa. So a large number of agreements are not in the UK's interest. As for people not answering your questions, that's very simple, your expectations are ridiculous, you want vast amounts of information to back up any point, large numbers of people use phones to access this site, they cannot provide a million and one links and in-depth explanations. Also your "style" of questioning needs seriously looking at, your endless barrages of questions are only ever going to be interpreted as hostile and aggressive, therefore people will not bother to respond in a positive way to you." What "new" relationship with Singapore would you like? What agreements don't you like or could have been "better" for us? If you have nothing are just voicing a generalised discontent and vague expectation that we could do better on our own. The definition of moaning. There is zero indication that we could negotiate anything better for us on our own, particularly as we are a much smaller market than the EU as a whole. That's why collective bargaining exists. To leverage scale. Your definition of huge amounts of information is just "some" data rather than a second hand opinion from a newspaper headlines and Facebook that have been repeated so many times that they are discussed as "facts" when they are nothing of the sort. | |||
"Okay, let's assume you are correct. The UK can veto any trade agreement put forward by the EU. Why, if these agreements are so detrimental, did the UK ratify rather than veto them? Because they are not always to the detriment of the UK at the time, then once adopted, we cannot change them. VAT is another example, under EU law, you cannot have flexibility to the level we want, you can have no VAT, reduced VAT or full VAT. So if you want to lower the rate on a certain item to benefit a certain part of society from the current 20% to say 10% you can't as you'd need to class is as reduced rate (currently 5%). So you either take it to 5% which may reduce the tax take to the point it's not viable, or you raise the reduced rate to 10% making everything else that uses that rate more expensive. " VAT is being negotiated. The uniformity exists to not artificially distort the market. It takes time to agree in a big group. What a bitch consensus is. | |||
"Okay, let's assume you are correct. The UK can veto any trade agreement put forward by the EU. Why, if these agreements are so detrimental, did the UK ratify rather than veto them? Because they are not always to the detriment of the UK at the time, then once adopted, we cannot change them. VAT is another example, under EU law, you cannot have flexibility to the level we want, you can have no VAT, reduced VAT or full VAT. So if you want to lower the rate on a certain item to benefit a certain part of society from the current 20% to say 10% you can't as you'd need to class is as reduced rate (currently 5%). So you either take it to 5% which may reduce the tax take to the point it's not viable, or you raise the reduced rate to 10% making everything else that uses that rate more expensive. So you are saying the UK Government is too dumb to understand what it voted for? Okay Do you think the member states of the union of the UK should also be able to exercise a veto over trade agreements negotiated by the central bureaucracy when deemed not to be in their interests? No I'm saying that not everything has stayed the same in the last 40 plus years. But once something is agreed within the EU we can't go back and veto it can we. You are looking at the whole of the evolution of the EU as if it is a series of yes or no answers. Not everything the EU negotiates is bad for us, but a lack of flexibility to react in ways to boost or stabilise the UK domestic market because it infringes EU laws can cause us problems. The issue is the same with other countries, Italy for example has certain ideas about what they believe will be good for their economic situation (whether it is or isn't is a matter for the Italians to decide), however they are being threatened with fines if they implement it. The same happened with Greece, they were not able to flex their internal economy as much as they needed to and it ended up with them needed a massive bailout. " Again, regulations for "boosting" domestic markets distort competition. You wouldn't allow Sheffield to subsidise an industry that kills the same one in Manchester. Italy's "certain ideas" are to completely ignore their budgetry limits. The ones they signed up to to join the Euro. Their choice to sign up. Same with Greece. They also chose to squander their money which created the crisis. If you can't pay your mortgage, your lender decides what happens next. Argentina has been stumbling from crisis to crisis with no central body to "hinder" it but also no close partners with an interest in bailing them out even if the terms are unpopular. Ultimately successful though and somehow Ireland and Portugal managed to implement similar solutions without "flexing". | |||
"God this gets fucking boring. Quick let's all bow to the alter of the EU cause no other government can possibly function or be any good without it. The world is bigger than the EU! We can have a good relationship with them, we aren't looking to put up a wall and ban all migration, we aren't looking to introduce some sort of bloody ethnic cleansing. You can be friends with Europe and Europeans with out being part of the EU. It literally just requires both side to say yes we want to. What are the benefits of leaving over staying? We already know the terms of maintaining our relationship. They didn't make any concessions for the transition agreement and as we have created an artificial time limit they won't do so again. They'll trade with us quite happily. We will just pay more as customers for what we buy from them. They will buy from each other rather than us. We will pay more to get technical staff from the EU through red tape and having to compensate in salaries for the hostile environment which is now perceived. Which part doesn't make sense? I've told you before, it's pointless debating with you. You want a bloody university dissertation every time anyone dares to have a different opinion to yourself. You are incapable of saying what the terms of the EU membership will be in 5 year or 10 years or 15 years, yet you expect everyone who voted leave to do so. Life is not certain, I'm saddened by the fact you can't deal with that, but really I don't care if it keeps you up at night. We leave, we will forge new relationships in the world, life will go on, the sky will not fall down. I will always question an empty sound-bite. I didn't ask for a complicated response, just some thought to be applied to a simple counter-argument. I have not said that it's impossible to continue outside the EU, so why argue against that? All I am asking is for the benefit of complicating our existing relationship with the EU for unknown benefit or loss. We can "forge new relationships in the world" right now. The EU just has with Canada and Japan. Germany forges bigger financial relationships with China right now than we do and we have a trade surplus with the USA. Both from within the EU. You cannot answer what benefit you hope for. So, quite frankly, your frustration is fine with me, it just displays your inability to explain the point of the disruption and division that is being caused. You still don't get it do you. We cannot forge new relationships for the UK with the world. EU agreements are what is best for the EU, not for individual member states. What works for us might not be the same as Germany, or Greece, or Spain and vice versa. So a large number of agreements are not in the UK's interest. As for people not answering your questions, that's very simple, your expectations are ridiculous, you want vast amounts of information to back up any point, large numbers of people use phones to access this site, they cannot provide a million and one links and in-depth explanations. Also your "style" of questioning needs seriously looking at, your endless barrages of questions are only ever going to be interpreted as hostile and aggressive, therefore people will not bother to respond in a positive way to you. What "new" relationship with Singapore would you like? What agreements don't you like or could have been "better" for us? If you have nothing are just voicing a generalised discontent and vague expectation that we could do better on our own. The definition of moaning. There is zero indication that we could negotiate anything better for us on our own, particularly as we are a much smaller market than the EU as a whole. That's why collective bargaining exists. To leverage scale. Your definition of huge amounts of information is just "some" data rather than a second hand opinion from a newspaper headlines and Facebook that have been repeated so many times that they are discussed as "facts" when they are nothing of the sort." I specifically remember saying I wasn't debating with you. That statement still stands. | |||
"What about the union of the UK? Should member states have a veto, like they do in EU? They already do on some things via devolved governments. And to preempt the next question, no parts of the UK cannot veto leaving the EU. The joining was negotiated for the UK as a whole and the act of union that joins the UK together is a very different agreement compared to the EU one. If a part of the UK union wants to steay in the EU, then they should vote to leave the UK union and apply to rejoin the EU as a country in their own right." Straw man. I asked if nations of the UK should have a veto on trade agreements negotiated by the London mandarins and signed off by English Tories. You totally dodged it. If they did, the UK would be as democratic as the EU. | |||
" EU agreements are what is best for the EU, not for individual member states. What works for us might not be the same as Germany, or Greece, or Spain and vice versa. So a large number of agreements are not in the UK's interest. What agreements negotiated on our behalf by the EU are against the interests of the UK? I will not be providing some sort of extensive list, however there are tariff controls for all sorts of agricultural products that are not in the UK'S interest but are for other member states, also other industrial components and materials. That part of my post is not intended to be a specific dig at the EU being crap, just an example of how when trying to sort agreements for multiple members, unless those members are the same, then some lose out while others win. " It's the same old thing, there's pro's and cons to anything and it's the calculation of which way brings us more benefits than negative consequences. | |||
" VAT is being negotiated. The uniformity exists to not artificially distort the market. It takes time to agree in a big group. What a bitch consensus is." VAT is a fundamental of member state contributions to the EU budget. The VAT collected by member states on products imported from outside the EU is one of three measures used to calculate that member state's contribution to the EU budget. | |||
"What about the union of the UK? Should member states have a veto, like they do in EU? They already do on some things via devolved governments. And to preempt the next question, no parts of the UK cannot veto leaving the EU. The joining was negotiated for the UK as a whole and the act of union that joins the UK together is a very different agreement compared to the EU one. If a part of the UK union wants to steay in the EU, then they should vote to leave the UK union and apply to rejoin the EU as a country in their own right. Straw man. I asked if nations of the UK should have a veto on trade agreements negotiated by the London mandarins and signed off by English Tories. You totally dodged it. If they did, the UK would be as democratic as the EU. " Ok, to make it as crystal clear as I can, no they should not have a veto as that is not provided for in the act of union that they signed up to. They have representation in the UK parliament, therefore they have a say. If they want more than that, leave, then attempt to renegotiate a new union with those terms included. If they can't, then they can self govern and choose whatever agreements they feel are best for them. | |||
"God this gets fucking boring. Quick let's all bow to the alter of the EU cause no other government can possibly function or be any good without it. The world is bigger than the EU! We can have a good relationship with them, we aren't looking to put up a wall and ban all migration, we aren't looking to introduce some sort of bloody ethnic cleansing. You can be friends with Europe and Europeans with out being part of the EU. It literally just requires both side to say yes we want to. What are the benefits of leaving over staying? We already know the terms of maintaining our relationship. They didn't make any concessions for the transition agreement and as we have created an artificial time limit they won't do so again. They'll trade with us quite happily. We will just pay more as customers for what we buy from them. They will buy from each other rather than us. We will pay more to get technical staff from the EU through red tape and having to compensate in salaries for the hostile environment which is now perceived. Which part doesn't make sense? I've told you before, it's pointless debating with you. You want a bloody university dissertation every time anyone dares to have a different opinion to yourself. You are incapable of saying what the terms of the EU membership will be in 5 year or 10 years or 15 years, yet you expect everyone who voted leave to do so. Life is not certain, I'm saddened by the fact you can't deal with that, but really I don't care if it keeps you up at night. We leave, we will forge new relationships in the world, life will go on, the sky will not fall down. I will always question an empty sound-bite. I didn't ask for a complicated response, just some thought to be applied to a simple counter-argument. I have not said that it's impossible to continue outside the EU, so why argue against that? All I am asking is for the benefit of complicating our existing relationship with the EU for unknown benefit or loss. We can "forge new relationships in the world" right now. The EU just has with Canada and Japan. Germany forges bigger financial relationships with China right now than we do and we have a trade surplus with the USA. Both from within the EU. You cannot answer what benefit you hope for. So, quite frankly, your frustration is fine with me, it just displays your inability to explain the point of the disruption and division that is being caused. You still don't get it do you. We cannot forge new relationships for the UK with the world. EU agreements are what is best for the EU, not for individual member states. What works for us might not be the same as Germany, or Greece, or Spain and vice versa. So a large number of agreements are not in the UK's interest. As for people not answering your questions, that's very simple, your expectations are ridiculous, you want vast amounts of information to back up any point, large numbers of people use phones to access this site, they cannot provide a million and one links and in-depth explanations. Also your "style" of questioning needs seriously looking at, your endless barrages of questions are only ever going to be interpreted as hostile and aggressive, therefore people will not bother to respond in a positive way to you. What "new" relationship with Singapore would you like? What agreements don't you like or could have been "better" for us? If you have nothing are just voicing a generalised discontent and vague expectation that we could do better on our own. The definition of moaning. There is zero indication that we could negotiate anything better for us on our own, particularly as we are a much smaller market than the EU as a whole. That's why collective bargaining exists. To leverage scale. Your definition of huge amounts of information is just "some" data rather than a second hand opinion from a newspaper headlines and Facebook that have been repeated so many times that they are discussed as "facts" when they are nothing of the sort. I specifically remember saying I wasn't debating with you. That statement still stands." I know. I keep asking difficult questions
You don't have to respond, but I don't have to let an unverified assertion stand.
Nobody has to agree with you just as nobody has to agree with me.
This is a discussion forum | |||
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"Okay, so member states of the EU get a veto on collective agreements. But you oppose member states of the UK getting a veto on collective agreements. Okay. How very centralising your thinking is. " No, I am opposed to member states of the UK having a veto that was not allowed for in the original agreement they signed up to. If they can renegotiate that agreement to include a veto then that is fine. I don't sign a job contract agreeing to work 9-5 and then tell them I'm only going to do 10-4. I would have to renegotiate that new agreement, it might be possible it might not. Not all agreements are the same as the EU. | |||
"What is the UK rule for paid holidays that is different from the EU standard? How many more weeks per year must UK employers give their staff? I suggest you look it up. Weren't you mistaken about travel to the EU as well on another thread? I should look it up? Lololol You were the one who said the UK has higher standards than the EU across maternity, holidays and minimum wage. The minimum wage is already debunked and it looks like your holiday claim is bunkum, too. lol " The EU doesn't have minimum wage legislation...we do. Therefore our standards are higher than the EU's. Now look up maternity leave. How's your holiday planning going, now you know you din't have to wait months to go to the EU twice? | |||
" The EU doesn't have minimum wage legislation...we do. Therefore our standards are higher than the EU's. " If the EU has no standard, your argument is false. I listed the European countries with a higher minimum wage above. So countries elsewhere in the EU have higher standards than the UK. It's a bogus argument about the EU you are making. Totally bogus. | |||
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" The EU doesn't have minimum wage legislation...we do. Therefore our standards are higher than the EU's. If the EU has no standard, your argument is false. I listed the European countries with a higher minimum wage above. So countries elsewhere in the EU have higher standards than the UK. It's a bogus argument about the EU you are making. Totally bogus." So conversely what you're saying is that if we have no minimum standards on something and the EU does, then the argument that the EU has higher standards than the UK is false. | |||
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"They are still trying to scare people now. Look at it this way Boris don’t amazing job when he was mayor of London. And look how bad it’s turned now. Hopefully Boris will make Britain great again. We have had a conservative government for nearly 10 years, why is it taking so long to make us ‘great again’?" Maybe because spending money is a damn sight easier than saving it. S | |||
" Maybe because spending money is a damn sight easier than saving it. S" How much money have UK Chancellors saved since the end of Labour governance in 2010? | |||
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"God this gets fucking boring. Quick let's all bow to the alter of the EU cause no other government can possibly function or be any good without it. The world is bigger than the EU! We can have a good relationship with them, we aren't looking to put up a wall and ban all migration, we aren't looking to introduce some sort of bloody ethnic cleansing. You can be friends with Europe and Europeans with out being part of the EU. It literally just requires both side to say yes we want to. What are the benefits of leaving over staying? We already know the terms of maintaining our relationship. They didn't make any concessions for the transition agreement and as we have created an artificial time limit they won't do so again. They'll trade with us quite happily. We will just pay more as customers for what we buy from them. They will buy from each other rather than us. We will pay more to get technical staff from the EU through red tape and having to compensate in salaries for the hostile environment which is now perceived. Which part doesn't make sense? I've told you before, it's pointless debating with you. You want a bloody university dissertation every time anyone dares to have a different opinion to yourself. You are incapable of saying what the terms of the EU membership will be in 5 year or 10 years or 15 years, yet you expect everyone who voted leave to do so. Life is not certain, I'm saddened by the fact you can't deal with that, but really I don't care if it keeps you up at night. We leave, we will forge new relationships in the world, life will go on, the sky will not fall down. I will always question an empty sound-bite. I didn't ask for a complicated response, just some thought to be applied to a simple counter-argument. I have not said that it's impossible to continue outside the EU, so why argue against that? All I am asking is for the benefit of complicating our existing relationship with the EU for unknown benefit or loss. We can "forge new relationships in the world" right now. The EU just has with Canada and Japan. Germany forges bigger financial relationships with China right now than we do and we have a trade surplus with the USA. Both from within the EU. You cannot answer what benefit you hope for. So, quite frankly, your frustration is fine with me, it just displays your inability to explain the point of the disruption and division that is being caused. You still don't get it do you. We cannot forge new relationships for the UK with the world. EU agreements are what is best for the EU, not for individual member states. What works for us might not be the same as Germany, or Greece, or Spain and vice versa. So a large number of agreements are not in the UK's interest. As for people not answering your questions, that's very simple, your expectations are ridiculous, you want vast amounts of information to back up any point, large numbers of people use phones to access this site, they cannot provide a million and one links and in-depth explanations. Also your "style" of questioning needs seriously looking at, your endless barrages of questions are only ever going to be interpreted as hostile and aggressive, therefore people will not bother to respond in a positive way to you." | |||
"Yes. Because the UK has none." So then if the UK were to remove, say, construction health and safety standards, you could not argue that the EU has higher standards for construction health and safety than the UK. | |||
"They are still trying to scare people now. Look at it this way Boris don’t amazing job when he was mayor of London. And look how bad it’s turned now. Hopefully Boris will make Britain great again. " Well said | |||
"Yes. Because the UK has none. So then if the UK were to remove, say, construction health and safety standards, you could not argue that the EU has higher standards for construction health and safety than the UK." That's the most ridiculous way of comparison ever lol Someone's had too much sherry me thinks | |||
"Yes. Because the UK has none. So then if the UK were to remove, say, construction health and safety standards, you could not argue that the EU has higher standards for construction health and safety than the UK." Red tape. Health and safety gone mad. We don't need it. That's a Brexit benefit | |||
"Yes. Because the UK has none. So then if the UK were to remove, say, construction health and safety standards, you could not argue that the EU has higher standards for construction health and safety than the UK. That's the most ridiculous way of comparison ever lol Someone's had too much sherry me thinks "The one that's had too much sherry is the one that said if we don't have any standards then you could not argue that the EU's standards are higher than ours..... Or vice versa. | |||
"Yes. Because the UK has none. So then if the UK were to remove, say, construction health and safety standards, you could not argue that the EU has higher standards for construction health and safety than the UK. That's the most ridiculous way of comparison ever lol Someone's had too much sherry me thinks
The one that's had too much sherry is the one that said if we don't have any standards then you could not argue that the EU's standards are higher than ours.....
Or vice versa."Indeed, exactly | |||
