FabSwingers.com > Forums > Swinging Support and Advice > Why We Need a Matchmaking Agency for Open Relationships
Why We Need a Matchmaking Agency for Open Relationships
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By (user no longer on site) OP 11 weeks ago
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Right now, there’s not a single matchmaking agency that truly serves people seeking open relationships, swinging, or polyamory. Yet not everyone feels comfortable attending swinger clubs or social events alone just to find a partner.
Dating apps and websites may seem like they offer options, but in reality, most people judge based on photos — which say nothing about someone’s personality or values. Even well-written profiles are often met with skepticism. Two people who might really connect in person could easily pass each other by online.
Even worse is the system of “reviews” after meetings. If a man has no reviews, he’s usually ignored. To get positive reviews, he’s expected to meet women he’s not actually interested in — just for validation. Most high-quality men won’t do that, and as a result, they stay invisible.
So what is a high-quality man? Someone who is single, financially secure, educated, in good shape, well-groomed, kind, and intellectually engaging. These men exist — but you’ll rarely see them active on swinger sites or apps.
The real solution? Personal matchmaking. Trusted people conducting interviews and connecting serious, compatible individuals. If the goal is a long-term open relationship or even a marriage, such an agency would be in high demand.
Sadly, it doesn’t exist yet. |
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By (user no longer on site) 11 weeks ago
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with so few women interested in the swinging scene i can see it not working it would be over filled with guys including married looking for sex...there are less single women on this scene now than there ever has been 30 plus years ago there we alot more women..
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By (user no longer on site) OP 11 weeks ago
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"with so few women interested in the swinging scene i can see it not working it would be over filled with guys including married looking for sex...there are less single women on this scene now than there ever has been 30 plus years ago there we alot more women..
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The role of a matchmaking agency should be precisely to filter out dishonest men — those who are only looking for sex, who are already married, or who lack a good reputation. It should also verify that men aren’t lying about their income. These are all standard responsibilities for any reputable matchmaking agency.
And if you focus only on decent men who are genuinely seeking long-term relationships (not dreaming about, but seriously ready), the number of women interested in alternative lifestyles like swinging and the number of men willing to build a family with such women wouldn’t differ all that much. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 11 weeks ago
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"with so few women interested in the swinging scene i can see it not working it would be over filled with guys including married looking for sex...there are less single women on this scene now than there ever has been 30 plus years ago there we alot more women..
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I believe that such an agency should be run by an attractive young woman or a couple who are personally connected to many women in this lifestyle. If a single man were to start such an agency, it’s unlikely that anyone would take him seriously — he wouldn’t have the right connections, and most men wouldn’t be comfortable speaking to another man about these topics.
The female founder of such a startup could personally interview men, either in person or via video call, and create detailed profiles for them. She could then discreetly share these profiles with women she knows — through her personal network, in relevant clubs, or even on this site. If someone shows interest, she could simply connect them and charge a reasonable fee for her work.
Personally, I would have no issue paying a few hundred pounds just for an initial interview. If such an agency already existed — or if any woman were interested in launching one — I would gladly be among the first clients.
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And if you focus only on decent men who are genuinely seeking long-term relationships (not dreaming about, but seriously ready), the number of women interested in alternative lifestyles like swinging and the number of men willing to build a family with such women wouldn’t differ all that much."
and i still stand by what i said once you get rid of all the dreamers there still will be far to many men compared to single women... its always been the same even tho there were more women years ago its alway strugglled to get women interested and then you get those who may have a little interest once they see the hassle/abuse they never return ots a fact of this scene very few single women want it...
and you saying that the system will take care og the dreamers and sex seekers no dating site swinging site kink site personel site has ever managed it free or pay people lie and its that easy
look at how many fake women profiles there are in all sites 50% 60% 70% thats happening everyware men get of pretending to be women for all sorts of reasons.
i wish i was wrong and there were more single women interested because this scene needs more couples as thats in decline too covid did alot of damage on top a already shrinking scene it brought zillions of board men on half looking for sex on a plate women lft couples left ...ckubs struggle to fill and ask yourself this if there are so many swingers then why are the clubs not full why is there so few clubs |
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By *enelope2UWoman 11 weeks ago
Doesn't matter cant block distances |
"Right now, there’s not a single matchmaking agency that truly serves people seeking open relationships, swinging, or polyamory. Yet not everyone feels comfortable attending swinger clubs or social events alone just to find a partner.
Dating apps and websites may seem like they offer options, but in reality, most people judge based on photos — which say nothing about someone’s personality or values. Even well-written profiles are often met with skepticism. Two people who might really connect in person could easily pass each other by online.
Even worse is the system of “reviews” after meetings. If a man has no reviews, he’s usually ignored. To get positive reviews, he’s expected to meet women he’s not actually interested in — just for validation. Most high-quality men won’t do that, and as a result, they stay invisible.
So what is a high-quality man? Someone who is single, financially secure, educated, in good shape, well-groomed, kind, and intellectually engaging. These men exist — but you’ll rarely see them active on swinger sites or apps.
The real solution? Personal matchmaking. Trusted people conducting interviews and connecting serious, compatible individuals. If the goal is a long-term open relationship or even a marriage, such an agency would be in high demand.
Sadly, it doesn’t exist yet."
Disagree with the requirements to meet "someone you're not interested in, just to be validated" that VOIDED everything you typed that was valid and on point. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 11 weeks ago
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Reputable marriage agencies thoroughly vet all men, usually through an in-depth interview process. A similar approach may be taken by agencies catering to other relationship dynamics, such as those in the swinger community. |
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OP. Your view and opinion on what as you put it a high quality man is and should represent might not be how other individuals perceive it
Like in every walk of life people's opinions are so very different
With how you describe a high quality man could come across asreally insensitive and somewhat insulting to others
Would men really want to be interviewed and their private income vetted etc just to be involved in an open relationship
Its another one of these situations where sometimes face value and gut instinct is the best narrative |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 11 weeks ago
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I'm not suggesting anything that people don't already disclose during the mandatory interviews in a typical matchmaking agency. If you've ever had any experience with such agencies, you'd understand that this is exactly how it works.
If we're specifically talking about income, and if that part seems offensive to you, then look at it from another perspective—if you're getting married, it's not just a one-night encounter, and your fiancée will 100% know everything about your income. It's highly unlikely that a rational woman would want to marry someone who is in debt or bankrupt. After all, you'll be raising children together, and that's logical.
So here, it's about financial transparency and integrity, without which building a family is simply impossible.
I don’t see any difference between ‘normal’ marriage and swinger style marriage. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 11 weeks ago
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I add one more reply from my private messages, as I received one comment, so others may read as well.
A man is not just a sexual partner. People get married because they want to build a life together, live in a comfortable apartment or house in a good neighborhood. If a man is well-paid, it doesn’t necessarily mean he is particularly intelligent or possesses extraordinary personal qualities. However, if he has achieved success on his own, I assure you, he can't be considered foolish. This means he can teach his children valuable lessons too.
If a man earns well, is intelligent, and engaging, you wouldn’t be embarrassed to introduce him to anyone. Plus, he’s likely to be someone with whom you enjoy meaningful conversations, and communication is an important part of any relationship.
As for the idea that money directly correlates to attractiveness as a sexual partner, there is, of course, no such simple connection.
Hope that clarifies the above messages. |
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Does it solve a problem that exists for both parties? If not the business is a non-starter.
As an Ethically non-monogamous woman, I have had no issue at all finding loving and committed long term partners. Ever (I’ve been actively poly for over 20 years). I’m very open about my relationship orientation and screen people out quickly in the dating process. I know many who are the same.
Equally clubs and socials exist. I would have absolutely no reason to pay for something as it doesn’t solve a problem I have. With a 3:1 men:women ratio on typical dating sites there is already an imbalance. I would argue the ENM ratio to be far far higher than that.
IMO an agency would not be viable as they wouldn’t be able to get a critical mass of women leading to the Ashley Maddison effect.
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By (user no longer on site) OP 11 weeks ago
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Such service must be paid by men, and absolutely free for women.
So yes, this would create a large database and women would have great choice of men they would never meet otherwise. |
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"with so few women interested in the swinging scene i can see it not working it would be over filled with guys including married looking for sex...there are less single women on this scene now than there ever has been 30 plus years ago there we alot more women..
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... and guys who are using their wife as a porn fantasy
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By (user no longer on site) OP 11 weeks ago
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The cost of a standard matchmaking agency in the UK is typically around £3,500 for a six-month membership.
If there were an agency focused on polyamorous, open or swinger relationships, and it operated as a startup, the pricing could be more flexible in the beginning — based on real services provided rather than simply charging for "club membership." The fees could be broken down into clear, transparent stages:
1. £300 for a personal in-depth interview (1.5–2 hours). Based on this conversation, the agency could ethically and honestly explain a man's chances and give him a realistic understanding of his prospects.
2. Profile creation. This could include a 20% service fee based on the cost of hiring a professional photographer, stylist, or barber — provided that these are truly high-quality professionals who deliver real value, and can be recommended with confidence.
3. Matching and introduction. If a suitable woman is found, the agency owner could arrange a Zoom call between the two. If there’s mutual interest, a fair fee would be £1,000+ — not just for exchanging contacts, but for organising a proper in-person social meeting.
As the agency builds its reputation — measured by the number of successful relationships or marriages it helps to create — pricing could justifiably increase. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 11 weeks ago
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I didn’t make up the prices—I simply provided approximate figures based on UK-based agencies.
By the way, regular agencies charge women the same rates. However, that model wouldn’t work for a swinger agency - here only men should be charged.
Startup pricing can be flexible. Also, the money paid isn’t just for profit—it serves as proof of a man's serious intention to get married, not just to find a woman for a one-night stand. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 11 weeks ago
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Answering more questions I received in private messages.
Men may have many different reasons for not feeling comfortable in those kinds of social scenes. Some are simply shy and only open up among people they already know — they struggle to start conversations with strangers. Others avoid public exposure, or are just naturally introverted. There could easily be a thousand such reasons. And if, for example, a man is looking for a relationship that is open only on the woman’s side (while he remains fully faithful), then participating in social scenes might not be necessary for him at all — or he might only feel comfortable in small, private gatherings where everyone present is a friend or a partner of his wife.
Regarding income level and “privilege” — it’s the job of the matchmaker or agent to get a sense of someone’s motivations and filter out those who are only looking for “access” or status.
As for myself, I doubt I’d ever want to be the organizer of such an agency, for reasons I’ve already mentioned in the forum. The interviews should ideally be conducted by an attractive woman, not a man — I don’t think many men would be willing to speak openly about these topics with a male interviewer. And more importantly, what truly matters in this type of work is the network. To launch something like this, you’d need to personally know at least two or three dozen single women within polyamorous or swinger circles.
That said, I might actually be interested in becoming the first client of such a startup. And I might even consider financing it as an investor and partner — although it’s far too early to talk about that seriously. At this point, I’m just trying to understand whether the idea can work at all — whether women would be genuinely interested, and whether there would be enough men willing to participate sincerely. |
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By *bi HaiveMan 11 weeks ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
Tbh I've never had an issue finding open relationships on here. I currently have two partners, one of whom is long term poly with another partner and the other just in a relationship with me, but all are free to do as we please and meet who we wish, whenever we want.
I'd not pay for an agency or app simply because I don't need to, feel there's an element of expectancy when fees are involved, and that the people using it would be no different really to those I can meet for free via Fab, swinging in general, clubs and organised social events.
With any online process there's a distance between people. Much easier to meet IRL and get a better feel for people face to face. And group events offer the scope to engage with multiple people, at either zero or low cost, without relying on words on a screen that are there to sell yourself the best you can. I know that's essentially what profiles are on here of course, but dating sites will never offer the networking abilities that Fab does. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 11 weeks ago
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I agree with you that most people meet their partners in everyday life. That said, marriage agencies represent a substantial industry with many success stories and satisfied clients. And if you look at the profiles of people in agency databases, you'll see they are just as attractive as those who met their partners through other means. |
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By *bi HaiveMan 11 weeks ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"I agree with you that most people meet their partners in everyday life. That said, marriage agencies represent a substantial industry with many success stories and satisfied clients. And if you look at the profiles of people in agency databases, you'll see they are just as attractive as those who met their partners through other means."
I suspect the client based for a standard marriage agency would be significantly larger than for an ENM/Poly/Open Relationship marriage agency.
Are any given time there's 30-40k people logged in to Fab. The UK population over 18 is 50m+. Take out those already married, those looking to get married but remain monogamous and those not wanting to get married and would there really be a viable client base?
And I'm not sure what people being 'attractive' has to do with anything. Attraction is individual and not simply based on physical features and looks.
Are marriage agencies really a 'substantial industry'? I don't know anyone who's used one personally. 🤷♂️
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By (user no longer on site) OP 11 weeks ago
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https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/third-no-longer-believe-monogamy-24680919?utm_source=chatgpt.com
UK population is nearly 70 million people.
Regarding a startup, it never starts from a million users. However, I see the concept makes perfect sense.
Talking out ideas is simple.
"When we first launched it, Wikipedia was a joke. (Thanks a lot, Stephen Colbert!). Almost nobody expected it to work."
— Jimmy Wales, Founder of Wikipedia |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 11 weeks ago
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Based on the messages I receive privately, it seems that every man married to a polygamous or polyamorous woman is described as looking like 25-year-old Jude Law, highly intellectual, winning bodybuilding contests, irresistibly macho, earning no less than £125,000 a year, holding at least a PhD, deeply knowledgeable about art, and collecting rare wines. On top of that, they’re somehow always 10–15 years younger than their wives.
Meanwhile, anyone who doesn't match this description is written off as a 'shy wannabe cuckold' with no chance of ever being in a relationship with an attractive polyamorous or polygamous woman.
Guys, do you honestly believe this yourselves? |
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By *bi HaiveMan 11 weeks ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"Based on the messages I receive privately, it seems that every man married to a polygamous or polyamorous woman is described as looking like 25-year-old Jude Law, highly intellectual, winning bodybuilding contests, irresistibly macho, earning no less than £125,000 a year, holding at least a PhD, deeply knowledgeable about art, and collecting rare wines. On top of that, they’re somehow always 10–15 years younger than their wives.
Meanwhile, anyone who doesn't match this description is written off as a 'shy wannabe cuckold' with no chance of ever being in a relationship with an attractive polyamorous or polygamous woman.
Guys, do you honestly believe this yourselves?"
Nope. Not a word of it.
I also wouldn't put too much faith in a survey carried out by Lovehoney based on 2000 people. Not the most unbiased research and a pretty small sample base.
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"Based on the messages I receive privately, it seems that every man married to a polygamous or polyamorous woman is described as looking like 25-year-old Jude Law, highly intellectual, winning bodybuilding contests, irresistibly macho, earning no less than £125,000 a year, holding at least a PhD, deeply knowledgeable about art, and collecting rare wines. On top of that, they’re somehow always 10–15 years younger than their wives.
Meanwhile, anyone who doesn't match this description is written off as a 'shy wannabe cuckold' with no chance of ever being in a relationship with an attractive polyamorous or polygamous woman.
Guys, do you honestly believe this yourselves?"
Wow, brains, muscles and wealth!!! Where do I sign, OP???   |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 11 weeks ago
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As for the stereotype that all decent men can simply go to a club and meet women there—it’s a completely flawed assumption. A simple example: pickup artists often approach women effortlessly in bars, clubs, or even on the street. But does that make them worthy candidates for a long-term relationship or future husband material? I don’t think so.
Personally, I’ve only once approached a woman outside of a friend group in my entire life. It was very uncharacteristic of me. I saw her in a bar, and she struck me as extraordinarily beautiful. I stepped out, bought a bouquet of flowers from a store across the street, came back, gave her the bouquet, and told her honestly that I had never seen anyone so attractive. My sincerity made an impression—she kissed me on the cheek, and we ended up dating for about six months. But still, I had never done anything like that before, and I haven’t since.
The truth is, many men don’t feel confident initiating conversations with women. That initial shyness or awkwardness doesn't make them outsiders or any less deserving—it simply makes them human. |
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And there it is…. Manosphere red pill nonsense.
No one is going to change your mind. Given that you haven’t asked for advice, I shan’t give any other than this six six six, muscles, gym, good looking nonsense is a complete misnomer.
It’s easy to blame things that can’t be changed instead of taking an introspection as to what is needed to build confidence and love in oneself before looking outwards.
The money might be better spent on a life coach. Decent ones are worth their weight in gold and can really help with building what is needed to meet attainable goals.
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"Based on the messages I receive privately, it seems that every man married to a polygamous or polyamorous woman is described as looking like 25-year-old Jude Law, highly intellectual, winning bodybuilding contests, irresistibly macho, earning no less than £125,000 a year, holding at least a PhD, deeply knowledgeable about art, and collecting rare wines. On top of that, they’re somehow always 10–15 years younger than their wives.
Meanwhile, anyone who doesn't match this description is written off as a 'shy wannabe cuckold' with no chance of ever being in a relationship with an attractive polyamorous or polygamous woman.
Guys, do you honestly believe this yourselves?
Nope. Not a word of it.
I also wouldn't put too much faith in a survey carried out by Lovehoney based on 2000 people. Not the most unbiased research and a pretty small sample base.
"
I love your responses. Always on point!  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 11 weeks ago
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What I’m discussing here is not myself, but the concept of a matchmaking agency specifically for swingers and polyamorous people. I don’t see any fundamental difference between a traditional matchmaking agency and one that serves this particular niche.
There can be many reasons why men — or anyone — might choose to use such services. But when someone claims that it’s due to self-loathing, insecurity, or other so-called “male flaws,” that kind of judgment ends up insulting many couples who met through matchmaking services and are genuinely happy together.
Criticizing someone for not being “perfect” — and doing so while claiming moral high ground — is ethically questionable, to say the least. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 11 weeks ago
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If you wish to criticize the very concept of matchmaking agencies, feel free to direct that discussion toward the people who run or use such services — they’re the ones most directly involved and best positioned to engage in that conversation.
However, if your criticism is about something else entirely, then it may simply be misplaced in this context. Much of what’s being discussed here — including personal opinions, abstract examples, or individual preferences (mine included) — is inherently subjective and not necessarily relevant to a broader debate.
Instead, I encourage you to take the courageous step of raising an ethical issue that genuinely matters to you personally. Start a thread about it on the forum, and then see how quickly some entrenched critics will unfairly insult you — often without knowing you, or even fully reading what you’ve written. They’ll cherry-pick isolated statements that highlight their own insecurities more than any real flaw in your ideas.
Meanwhile, the idea of a matchmaking agency tailored to swingers and polyamorous individuals is a sound and forward-thinking one. Within the next decade, we’re likely to see many such agencies emerge, with a growing client base of both men and women. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 11 weeks ago
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I'm not personally offended by the questions you asked.
However, I should point out that, in general, such questions could come across as quite offensive — especially to someone my age engaging in a thoughtful discussion on this topic.
That said, the answer to all three of your questions is simply: yes.
Why we again discussing myself? This is a complete off-topic. |
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"I'm not personally offended by the questions you asked.
However, I should point out that, in general, such questions could come across as quite offensive — especially to someone my age engaging in a thoughtful discussion on this topic.
That said, the answer to all three of your questions is simply: yes.
Why we again discussing myself? This is a complete off-topic."
How could the questions come across as offensive? |
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No one was criticising anyone. No one is perfect.
Working on self esteem, self worth and confidence is always worthwhile. Seeking professional help to do so is by no means shameful. I credit my success to a number of coaches throughout my career/life. No shame or shade.
There are pro Dommes already match making in the kink world. However, the business model you suggest is fundamentally flawed. It doesn’t solve a problem for both customers and leaves men at risk of being out of pocked and dissatisfied. Like the Ashley Maddison site. Most women don’t need this service. So the supply won’t meet demand, yet someone can happily take “interview” money and spin a yarn. |
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By *bi HaiveMan 11 weeks ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"I'm not personally offended by the questions you asked.
However, I should point out that, in general, such questions could come across as quite offensive — especially to someone my age engaging in a thoughtful discussion on this topic.
That said, the answer to all three of your questions is simply: yes.
Why we again discussing myself? This is a complete off-topic."
No need to feel offended. They weren't offensive questions and were based purely because your rationale in the thread for a need for this kind of service appears to be based on research by others, and personal thoughts on why people get married, many of which I personally disagree on - but of course your views will be swayed by your own personal experiences. I never married wanting children. I never actually knew or asked for, the income details or assets of any parter.
The claim that such an agency would only be taken seriously if run by a woman or couple, and that they'd need to know many women in the scene, because a man wouldn't be able to do the same thing is extremely presumptuous.
As is the notion that there aren't 'high quality' men in the swinging world. Trust me, there are. And most don't fit any of the physical characteristics and stereotypes you've listed as being important.
There aren't less clubs now. Clubs come and go all the time. I know of many that closed long before covid for various reasons and many that have opened since lockdown ended. The scene appears to be in no way 'in decline'.
I'm sure there are men out there that would value someone doing the leg work for them in finding a partner and who'd also be willing and able to pay the fees you've mentioned earlier. But not many. High cost matchmaking services for traditional marriages isn't exactly a huge industry. One for poly/ENM folk would cater for a tiny minority of people in the scene. By their nature, poly/ENM folk don't tend to lack social skills, confidence, the ability to communicate (especially with multiple people at once) and I've yet to meet one that would ever accept any kind of third party involvement in sourcing them a partner. The closest ive ever experienced would be the use of a certain dating app aimed at poly/ENM/open relationship people. And even that has many a member telling the odd porkie about what they're really looking for and how willing they'd honestly be to share a partner.
I just can't see there ever being a demand for such a service or it ever happening I'm afraid. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 11 weeks ago
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«As is the notion that there aren't 'high quality' men in the swinging world.» - I never said that.
As for your other point — it's worth noting that most traditional matchmaking agencies are, in fact, run by women.
Finally, it seems clear that this kind of agency isn't something you're personally interested in. So it’s unclear why you’re trying to dismiss the idea altogether.
For example, I’m not a fan of football, but I wouldn’t go to a stadium just to tell football fans that the sport isn’t good for them either. |
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By *bi HaiveMan 11 weeks ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"«As is the notion that there aren't 'high quality' men in the swinging world.» - I never said that.
As for your other point — it's worth noting that most traditional matchmaking agencies are, in fact, run by women.
Finally, it seems clear that this kind of agency isn't something you're personally interested in. So it’s unclear why you’re trying to dismiss the idea altogether.
For example, I’m not a fan of football, but I wouldn’t go to a stadium just to tell football fans that the sport isn’t good for them either."
The purpose of a forum is for people to discuss ideas, offer viewpoints and give their opinions, with a rationale behind why they think in a certain way. A viewpoint that doesn't agree with you is no less valid than one that agrees.
As for the quality comment?
"So what is a high-quality man? Someone who is single, financially secure, educated, in good shape, well-groomed, kind, and intellectually engaging. These men exist — but you’ll rarely see them active on swinger sites or apps."
OK. You didn't say there aren't any. Just that allegedly they're rare.
I don't think they actually are. But then my definition of 'high quality' doesn't relate to income, wealth, looks
or physical fitness. There's more to a person than those factors. Much, much more. 🤷♂️ |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 11 weeks ago
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I'm sorry if my words came across differently than I intended — it seems they may have been misunderstood. Honestly, that wasn’t what I meant.
I was referring to men who are outside of the scene, simply pointing out their numbers. Statistically speaking, when you have a larger pool of people with similar qualities, you're more likely to find standout individuals. It's just a matter of probability.
I never meant to imply that the nice and attractive guys within the scene are in any way less attractive or less valuable than those outside of it. That wasn’t my point at all.
My point was simply that there are many decent guys outside the scene as well, but for various reasons, they’re not able to be part of it.
That’s all I was trying to say.
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By (user no longer on site) OP 11 weeks ago
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Ashley Madison is not a matchmaking agency, but rather a dating site — that’s not what I’m referring to.
As for the idea that “most women don’t need a matchmaking agency” — that’s both true and not entirely true. There are many well-known success stories, and ultimately, using such a service is a personal choice. It depends on individual preferences and circumstances. |
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"Ashley Madison is not a matchmaking agency, but rather a dating site — that’s not what I’m referring to.
As for the idea that “most women don’t need a matchmaking agency” — that’s both true and not entirely true. There are many well-known success stories, and ultimately, using such a service is a personal choice. It depends on individual preferences and circumstances."
Ethically non monogamous women. We’re talking ENM.
I gave an example of a recent company that couldn’t get a critical mass of non- monogamous women (ethical or not). They ended up with their staff running fake profiles .
There’s little value in continuing the discussion. It feels like we’re either talking cross purposes or I’m falling to understand the value proposition for women. All the best. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 11 weeks ago
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Ashley Madison likely failed because it focused too much on commercialization; otherwise, they would never have resorted to using fake profiles.
What benefits are there for women? There are a lot of women, and they are all different. What doesn’t work for one might work for another. Noting that you are part of a couple, what’s there to discuss? I never mentioned couples at all.
Looking at it from a broader perspective, such an agency, starting as a startup, could have evolved into an international business.
A similar agency recently launched in the U.S. While it isn’t as commercially driven as Ashley Madison, it still has a very narrow view of the world.
I’m now convinced that I need to find the right woman or couple on this platform who would be interested in collaborating, and then possibly start funding and developing such a project.
I am not very interested in making profits, but truly interested in innovating. |
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By *bi HaiveMan 11 weeks ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"Ashley Madison likely failed because it focused too much on commercialization; otherwise, they would never have resorted to using fake profiles.
What benefits are there for women? There are a lot of women, and they are all different. What doesn’t work for one might work for another. Noting that you are part of a couple, what’s there to discuss? I never mentioned couples at all.
Looking at it from a broader perspective, such an agency, starting as a startup, could have evolved into an international business.
A similar agency recently launched in the U.S. While it isn’t as commercially driven as Ashley Madison, it still has a very narrow view of the world.
I’m now convinced that I need to find the right woman or couple on this platform who would be interested in collaborating, and then possibly start funding and developing such a project.
I am not very interested in making profits, but truly interested in innovating."
Ashley Madison isn't a great example to compare your idea to. It was a site for married people to meet other married people to cheat behind their partners backs. As far from an open, poly or ENM relationship as you can get.
As for couples? You've just stated you haven't mentioned them at all in the same breath as saying you're convinced you need to find the right woman 'or couple'.
There's been a lot of red pill style descriptions of men and assumptions of what women want so far and it seems little thought to what a couple would want from any such site. And whether you look at this from a perspective of two people being matched and thus forming a couple seeking others, or consider that many poly/open/ENM relationships begin when a couple introduces a single into the dynamic - couples are an integral element of these styles of relationships.
The only difference between what you propose and what's already in existence via Fab and other sites are the sizeable fees involved, what appears to be a selection/vetting process for applicants and a third party deciding who may be compatible with who. Which sounds very much like a couple of swingers events I know of that operate on the same basis. 🤷♂️ |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 11 weeks ago
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It seems like two separate topics may have gotten mixed up.
When I mentioned a couple, I was referring to potential business partners. When I spoke about single women, I was referring to individuals who might be interested in matchmaking.
Just to use myself as an example — not to focus on me personally, but to clarify: if I were looking for a business partner, I’d consider either a woman or a couple. If I were looking for a match as a client, with the goal of marriage, I wouldn’t be seeking couples at all.
I hope that clears things up. |
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By *bi HaiveMan 11 weeks ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"It seems like two separate topics may have gotten mixed up.
When I mentioned a couple, I was referring to potential business partners. When I spoke about single women, I was referring to individuals who might be interested in matchmaking.
Just to use myself as an example — not to focus on me personally, but to clarify: if I were looking for a business partner, I’d consider either a woman or a couple. If I were looking for a match as a client, with the goal of marriage, I wouldn’t be seeking couples at all.
I hope that clears things up."
If I've followed the thread correctly you've said you wouldn't think this would be successful if set up/run by a man, yes? 🤔 |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 10 weeks ago
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Yes, I did say that, as the vast majority of marriage agencies are indeed run by women.
That said, I don't see myself taking on the role of an interviewer or the creator of such a network.
However, I could potentially be interested in funding such an agency and developing its strategy business model.
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By *bi HaiveMan 10 weeks ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"Yes, I did say that, as the vast majority of marriage agencies are indeed run by women.
That said, I don't see myself taking on the role of an interviewer or the creator of such a network.
However, I could potentially be interested in funding such an agency and developing its strategy business model.
"
Do you think that's because women (and maybe couples) would have a better understanding of what sites such as these need to offer and how they should be run in order to provide the right service? |
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By (user no longer on site) 10 weeks ago
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This thread was an interesting read! As a single guy on here seeking a stag/vixen relationship I would be interested in such a match making service if it existed. I’m a professional with decent disposable income and would be willing to pay. Not sure how many other men like me there are out there but thought I’d contribute to say there is a business case in this idea somewhere! I attend the odd club event to try and meet someone in person but given I don’t actually want to play myself it’s expensive to attend and find there are only couples there and few single woman of my age. Feeld is ok but there is nothing really catering specifically so in my experience there is a gap in the market for something… |
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Obi has made some excellent points and I agree with him/you entirely. I gave the Ashley Madison example as a site catering to people who wanted extra curricular activities and acknowledged that it wasn’t ethical. This was given as a way to show that to have a viable market there needs to be both men and women wanting it. Ashley Maddison targeted married people as they have little time and require discretion. This is typically the demographic that a) have the capital to spend on such a service b) have the lack of time/inclination to dredge/take risks with non-matches and would likely pay for the service.
Given the OP doesn’t want to include couples seeking thirds or more in the business model, the Venn diagram gets ever smaller, and less viable.
If it is only single women being targeted then looking for vanilla/single ENM women specifically seeking stag vixen who are time poor/socially awkward, and unable to find a match on their own will be mind finding a needle in a haystack. I can’t imagine how one would find, let alone target them, and have enough on your books to create matches. You’d need atleast 20-30 for each man on your books to have enough to make basic matches.
Given that we’re so many posts into this; give me your one line value proposition that would give these women a reason to be added to your roster? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 10 weeks ago
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What you're writing and how you're interpreting what I say has little to do with reality. I generally dislike talking about myself, and even more so being the center of attention. But in this case, I have little choice, as I represent a fairly large group of men — and women, by the way.
1. You suggested I "seek professional help" for issues with women. That’s an odd suggestion, considering I was married to a very beautiful woman, and my ex-girlfriend is a 27-year-old supermodel — and I don’t use that word lightly. She’s the kind of woman you rarely even see on TV, let alone in real life.
2. As for people in the lifestyle and the percentage of them who go to swinger clubs — my ex-wife (also a confident and beautiful woman with plenty of lifestyle experience) and I were in an open relationship for years. We had experiences with other couples and men — all close friends of ours. Yet despite that, she had zero intention in going to swinger clubs or public events (she could not stand this idea). Would you suggest she also needed "professional help"?
When someone tries to understand something unfamiliar solely through their own stereotypes, they risk making massive logical errors — like calling white black or sweet salty, just because they've never encountered anything else. But that doesn’t mean alternatives don’t exist.
True success in any area begins with the ability to let go of stereotypes and see the world out of the box. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 10 weeks ago
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I’ll respond in more detail later, but I just wanted to note that excluding couples from a marriage agency model is actually a legal necessity, as polygamous marriages are not legally recognized. |
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"What you're writing and how you're interpreting what I say has little to do with reality. I generally dislike talking about myself, and even more so being the center of attention. But in this case, I have little choice, as I represent a fairly large group of men — and women, by the way.
1. You suggested I "seek professional help" for issues with women. That’s an odd suggestion, considering I was married to a very beautiful woman, and my ex-girlfriend is a 27-year-old supermodel — and I don’t use that word lightly. She’s the kind of woman you rarely even see on TV, let alone in real life.
2. As for people in the lifestyle and the percentage of them who go to swinger clubs — my ex-wife (also a confident and beautiful woman with plenty of lifestyle experience) and I were in an open relationship for years. We had experiences with other couples and men — all close friends of ours. Yet despite that, she had zero intention in going to swinger clubs or public events (she could not stand this idea). Would you suggest she also needed "professional help"?
When someone tries to understand something unfamiliar solely through their own stereotypes, they risk making massive logical errors — like calling white black or sweet salty, just because they've never encountered anything else. But that doesn’t mean alternatives don’t exist.
True success in any area begins with the ability to let go of stereotypes and see the world out of the box."
Yet your "high value/quality man" is one of the biggest stereotypes out there.
As for point #1 made above, I fail to see how the two are related. If you think that the aesthetic beauty of a partner is an indicator of a healthy attitude to women, you might just find that is wide of the mark.
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By (user no longer on site) OP 10 weeks ago
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"This thread was an interesting read! As a single guy on here seeking a stag/vixen relationship I would be interested in such a match making service if it existed. I’m a professional with decent disposable income and would be willing to pay. Not sure how many other men like me there are out there but thought I’d contribute to say there is a business case in this idea somewhere! I attend the odd club event to try and meet someone in person but given I don’t actually want to play myself it’s expensive to attend and find there are only couples there and few single woman of my age. Feeld is ok but there is nothing really catering specifically so in my experience there is a gap in the market for something… "
I completely agree with your point.
It's very possible that such an agency could emerge from someone within the community who takes the initiative to get it started.
I'd also be interested in becoming one of the first clients — so they might already have two potential clients right from the beginning. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 10 weeks ago
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"What you're writing and how you're interpreting what I say has little to do with reality. I generally dislike talking about myself, and even more so being the center of attention. But in this case, I have little choice, as I represent a fairly large group of men — and women, by the way.
1. You suggested I "seek professional help" for issues with women. That’s an odd suggestion, considering I was married to a very beautiful woman, and my ex-girlfriend is a 27-year-old supermodel — and I don’t use that word lightly. She’s the kind of woman you rarely even see on TV, let alone in real life.
2. As for people in the lifestyle and the percentage of them who go to swinger clubs — my ex-wife (also a confident and beautiful woman with plenty of lifestyle experience) and I were in an open relationship for years. We had experiences with other couples and men — all close friends of ours. Yet despite that, she had zero intention in going to swinger clubs or public events (she could not stand this idea). Would you suggest she also needed "professional help"?
When someone tries to understand something unfamiliar solely through their own stereotypes, they risk making massive logical errors — like calling white black or sweet salty, just because they've never encountered anything else. But that doesn’t mean alternatives don’t exist.
True success in any area begins with the ability to let go of stereotypes and see the world out of the box.
Yet your "high value/quality man" is one of the biggest stereotypes out there.
As for point #1 made above, I fail to see how the two are related. If you think that the aesthetic beauty of a partner is an indicator of a healthy attitude to women, you might just find that is wide of the mark.
"
Yes, the attitude was healthy. Why I would talk about that otherwise? |
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"I’ll respond in more detail later, but I just wanted to note that excluding couples from a marriage agency model is actually a legal necessity, as polygamous marriages are not legally recognized."
Why a marriage agency? Less than half of the UK population is married. I have never married having made a decision never to marry in my twenties. That being said, I am in a committed relationship that looks very like marriage.
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We have used traditional dating sites to find long term partners for our polyamory/cuckold lifestyle, can be a bit of a ‘trek’ going through profiles and reading behind them to find suitable people, but it does work. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP 10 weeks ago
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Everything I’m reading here reflects the cultural differences among various nations. For example, the British often consider discussions about money and income to be inappropriate or even offensive. In contrast, Americans tend to speak more openly about financial matters, comparing incomes and discussing economic prospects quite freely.
But does this mean that all Americans — or people from any culture with similar customs — are inherently shallow or unethical, using money to judge or belittle others?
Absolutely not. Different cultures have different norms, and people are individuals. What truly defines whether someone is a good or bad person isn't their cultural background, but their actions. |
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"Tbh I've never had an issue finding open relationships on here. I currently have two partners, one of whom is long term poly with another partner and the other just in a relationship with me, but all are free to do as we please and meet who we wish, whenever we want.
I'd not pay for an agency or app simply because I don't need to, feel there's an element of expectancy when fees are involved, and that the people using it would be no different really to those I can meet for free via Fab, swinging in general, clubs and organised social events.
With any online process there's a distance between people. Much easier to meet IRL and get a better feel for people face to face. And group events offer the scope to engage with multiple people, at either zero or low cost, without relying on words on a screen that are there to sell yourself the best you can. I know that's essentially what profiles are on here of course, but dating sites will never offer the networking abilities that Fab does. "
I agree I think fab is great for meeting new people and going to organised socials and sec club meets. Relationships form once you’re involved with the community local to you. Even if you go further afield relationships develop xx
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"What you're writing and how you're interpreting what I say has little to do with reality. I generally dislike talking about myself, and even more so being the center of attention. But in this case, I have little choice, as I represent a fairly large group of men — and women, by the way.
1. You suggested I "seek professional help" for issues with women. That’s an odd suggestion, considering I was married to a very beautiful woman, and my ex-girlfriend is a 27-year-old supermodel — and I don’t use that word lightly. She’s the kind of woman you rarely even see on TV, let alone in real life.
2. As for people in the lifestyle and the percentage of them who go to swinger clubs — my ex-wife (also a confident and beautiful woman with plenty of lifestyle experience) and I were in an open relationship for years. We had experiences with other couples and men — all close friends of ours. Yet despite that, she had zero intention in going to swinger clubs or public events (she could not stand this idea). Would you suggest she also needed "professional help"?
When someone tries to understand something unfamiliar solely through their own stereotypes, they risk making massive logical errors — like calling white black or sweet salty, just because they've never encountered anything else. But that doesn’t mean alternatives don’t exist.
True success in any area begins with the ability to let go of stereotypes and see the world out of the box."
OP -
1) I know women who run matchmaking services in the kink world and have experience with agencies.
2) I mentioned help to build confidence and skills with women as you mentioned that you were finding approaching women difficult and that pickup artists had little issue. PUAs are not reflective of real life and they don’t lead to long-term meaningful 50:50 partnerships.
There are some amazing life coaches that work on these skills. A good match maker would (and does) recommend doing this before starting on their journey as they want successful matches as much as their clients do. In the high-end matching world word of mouth is the biggest source of referrals for both sides. Recommendations and partnerships could be a part of the onboarding customer journey and revenue source.
3) given marriage is a declining market I would aim at the relationship angle, rather than marriage. Many of the stag/vixen relationships I know of are post-divorce or later life. Yes there are exceptions, but again, you may well be limiting your market. If marriage is the goal the market gets ever smaller. Couples seeking thirds would a viable revenue stream. I would absolutely pay for this service. My needs are niche and my time exceedingly poor. But I suspect that I am not the type of woman you have in mind for your agency. Yet, our demographic are the ones actively signing up and paying. Look at the burgeoning male professional companion business and dating agencies for execs and ceos.
I am in no way criticising you. I am trying to support your thinking in shaping your business model. I think there’s something in it, and this has been a fun thought excercise. Thank you.
As I have said a few times already, men are often parted from their money as they are sold a dream but reality differs. Having a viable business model with critical mass of participants is what will make this work. Networking and building your book will be key to this. And you never know, on that journey you might find your vixen! I really hope you do.
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By (user no longer on site) OP 10 weeks ago
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"What you're writing and how you're interpreting what I say has little to do with reality. I generally dislike talking about myself, and even more so being the center of attention. But in this case, I have little choice, as I represent a fairly large group of men — and women, by the way.
1. You suggested I "seek professional help" for issues with women. That’s an odd suggestion, considering I was married to a very beautiful woman, and my ex-girlfriend is a 27-year-old supermodel — and I don’t use that word lightly. She’s the kind of woman you rarely even see on TV, let alone in real life.
2. As for people in the lifestyle and the percentage of them who go to swinger clubs — my ex-wife (also a confident and beautiful woman with plenty of lifestyle experience) and I were in an open relationship for years. We had experiences with other couples and men — all close friends of ours. Yet despite that, she had zero intention in going to swinger clubs or public events (she could not stand this idea). Would you suggest she also needed "professional help"?
When someone tries to understand something unfamiliar solely through their own stereotypes, they risk making massive logical errors — like calling white black or sweet salty, just because they've never encountered anything else. But that doesn’t mean alternatives don’t exist.
True success in any area begins with the ability to let go of stereotypes and see the world out of the box.
Yet your "high value/quality man" is one of the biggest stereotypes out there.
As for point #1 made above, I fail to see how the two are related. If you think that the aesthetic beauty of a partner is an indicator of a healthy attitude to women, you might just find that is wide of the mark.
"
I’d like to respond to this stereotype — and take it a step further — by offering a paradox that might challenge readers' assumptions.
Yes, she was 27 and I was in my 40s. Yes, she is a model and extraordinarily beautiful. Yes, we were in a respectful, monogamous relationship, and yes, we talked seriously about marriage. I won’t go into the reasons we eventually parted ways.
Still, some might suspect the relationship wasn’t ethical — perhaps imagining I “bought” her attention with money or gifts. Here’s where it might surprise you: not only was that absolutely not the case, but she comes from a very wealthy family and has never needed financial support from anyone. What she values most in a man are his personal qualities and how genuinely she connects with him.
Of course, she’s used to a certain standard of living — but that’s not the same as being materialistic. In fact, she would never even entertain a conversation with someone who tried to “buy” her interest.
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By (user no longer on site) OP 10 weeks ago
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"What you're writing and how you're interpreting what I say has little to do with reality. I generally dislike talking about myself, and even more so being the center of attention. But in this case, I have little choice, as I represent a fairly large group of men — and women, by the way.
1. You suggested I "seek professional help" for issues with women. That’s an odd suggestion, considering I was married to a very beautiful woman, and my ex-girlfriend is a 27-year-old supermodel — and I don’t use that word lightly. She’s the kind of woman you rarely even see on TV, let alone in real life.
2. As for people in the lifestyle and the percentage of them who go to swinger clubs — my ex-wife (also a confident and beautiful woman with plenty of lifestyle experience) and I were in an open relationship for years. We had experiences with other couples and men — all close friends of ours. Yet despite that, she had zero intention in going to swinger clubs or public events (she could not stand this idea). Would you suggest she also needed "professional help"?
When someone tries to understand something unfamiliar solely through their own stereotypes, they risk making massive logical errors — like calling white black or sweet salty, just because they've never encountered anything else. But that doesn’t mean alternatives don’t exist.
True success in any area begins with the ability to let go of stereotypes and see the world out of the box.
OP -
1) I know women who run matchmaking services in the kink world and have experience with agencies.
2) I mentioned help to build confidence and skills with women as you mentioned that you were finding approaching women difficult and that pickup artists had little issue. PUAs are not reflective of real life and they don’t lead to long-term meaningful 50:50 partnerships.
There are some amazing life coaches that work on these skills. A good match maker would (and does) recommend doing this before starting on their journey as they want successful matches as much as their clients do. In the high-end matching world word of mouth is the biggest source of referrals for both sides. Recommendations and partnerships could be a part of the onboarding customer journey and revenue source.
3) given marriage is a declining market I would aim at the relationship angle, rather than marriage. Many of the stag/vixen relationships I know of are post-divorce or later life. Yes there are exceptions, but again, you may well be limiting your market. If marriage is the goal the market gets ever smaller. Couples seeking thirds would a viable revenue stream. I would absolutely pay for this service. My needs are niche and my time exceedingly poor. But I suspect that I am not the type of woman you have in mind for your agency. Yet, our demographic are the ones actively signing up and paying. Look at the burgeoning male professional companion business and dating agencies for execs and ceos.
I am in no way criticising you. I am trying to support your thinking in shaping your business model. I think there’s something in it, and this has been a fun thought excercise. Thank you.
As I have said a few times already, men are often parted from their money as they are sold a dream but reality differs. Having a viable business model with critical mass of participants is what will make this work. Networking and building your book will be key to this. And you never know, on that journey you might find your vixen! I really hope you do.
"
I'd be happy to continue the conversation in private messages, if you're interested.
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By (user no longer on site) OP 10 weeks ago
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When it comes to envisioning the future - especially in areas like polygamous or polyamorous relationships - objectivity is not difficult to achieve. But doing so first requires setting aside the existing framework of social stereotypes. Only then can we begin to explore which elements of other cultures might not only take root but potentially transform the matchmaking landscape within polyamory or polygamy altogether.
I don’t intend to share my ideas publicly. However, I could easily illustrate and logically explain ethical models of social interaction that are not only unrecognized by mainstream society but, in many cases, not even imagined yet.
Ethics, like society itself, evolves. People's attitudes toward certain issues often shift dramatically over time. That’s why discussing these topics outside a trusted circle of friends often leads to misunderstanding. Yet, a few years later, ideas once dismissed can become mainstream.
That said, I genuinely welcome constructive criticism. |
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"When it comes to envisioning the future - especially in areas like polygamous or polyamorous relationships - objectivity is not difficult to achieve. But doing so first requires setting aside the existing framework of social stereotypes. Only then can we begin to explore which elements of other cultures might not only take root but potentially transform the matchmaking landscape within polyamory or polygamy altogether.
I don’t intend to share my ideas publicly. However, I could easily illustrate and logically explain ethical models of social interaction that are not only unrecognized by mainstream society but, in many cases, not even imagined yet.
Ethics, like society itself, evolves. People's attitudes toward certain issues often shift dramatically over time. That’s why discussing these topics outside a trusted circle of friends often leads to misunderstanding. Yet, a few years later, ideas once dismissed can become mainstream.
That said, I genuinely welcome constructive criticism."
Socio economic factors come into play and you live in Glasgow. That’s already a location that isn’t too great for socio economic backgrounds and not a central location for meeting people unless they have their own helicopter at many do have at St Andrews Uni xx
So there’s potential if you get onto ”threads” and meet a uni girl with a helicopter xx
Look up threads it’s what all the uni kids are using now xx |
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"This thread was an interesting read! As a single guy on here seeking a stag/vixen relationship I would be interested in such a match making service if it existed. I’m a professional with decent disposable income and would be willing to pay. Not sure how many other men like me there are out there but thought I’d contribute to say there is a business case in this idea somewhere! I attend the odd club event to try and meet someone in person but given I don’t actually want to play myself it’s expensive to attend and find there are only couples there and few single woman of my age. Feeld is ok but there is nothing really catering specifically so in my experience there is a gap in the market for something…
I completely agree with your point.
It's very possible that such an agency could emerge from someone within the community who takes the initiative to get it started.
I'd also be interested in becoming one of the first clients — so they might already have two potential clients right from the beginning."
Yes two single men with money
I might start the agency and make hay while the sun is shining
I need £250,000 seed money for the business if you have it xx |
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