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Sky news - care home report
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Seen a reporter's visit to care homes. uncomfortable to watch as one care home resident asking for help by being taken to a hospital but was refused and lster died, struggling to breathe while family could only watch through a window. I would have thought a bottle of oxygen and mask could/would have been provided at least, especially as she was speaking and aware of what wad happening.
Shocked to see the lack of ppe also. One care home manager was supplied gloves by a tyre fitter garage., but no masks, no aptons, no goggles. Vrry hard to see how matt Hancock white washing over it when confronted by the reporter
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Most care homes are private.
But some how it will end up being the government’s failure...."
Because the government is failing its own citizens by not helping those needing treatment Universal care rings a bell. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Most care homes are private.
But some how it will end up being the government’s failure...."
She was refused oxygen or treatment by an nhs doctor and carehome staff were effectively abandoned to deal with it themselves |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Ah I knew it would be the government fault. (It’s not the governments fault, but you keep trying to tell yourself that)
"
You believe what you want. |
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I worked on a project to privatise care homes back in the 90s, because they were too expensive for the local budget.
They were promised by private companies but obviously care is expensive. Same as private hospitals generally do the very routine operations, knees, tonsils, heart, hips etc, because they know exactly to the penny on costs.
Lost both my parents to this virus. I held my dad as he passed. I was lucky to be able to sleep in his room on the floor, and we kinda tried to isolate ourselves. It was a care home run by nuns, so no PPE at all, just God! I've heard of many I met have now either pulled through or died. We didn't have a funeral, it was dead, bed, few prayers, oven. Sounds harsh but we were not allowed a funeral or gathering.
Government, yes have a role and blame in this time, but so do we, because we outsource our caring responsibility instead of taking care of our parents ourselves. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ah I knew it would be the government fault. (It’s not the governments fault, but you keep trying to tell yourself that)
"
If a Government isn't in charge of providing Health and Social care, it's their role to ensure private organisations are regulated well, that they are keeping records and supplies in check, that their staff are invested in and currently equipped.
In the UK, unlike say Norway for example, we keep the government accountable on health care, not social care. That, we pass to the private company. Though prior to 2016, there was a lot of bi-partisan work across the political spectrum to get Social care brought into public health
The state has spent 10 years slashing NHS and PHE provisions. I'm not just on about finding, I'm on about physical assets, supply depos and storage, thinking a serious cris wouldn't come.
It has, and the fact that as a country we are utterly dependant on ordering stuff in, as and when needed, rather than building up provisions of equipment that is suitable, just serves to illustrate the failure of the State and this Government.
So no. Sorry, the Crisis in Social Care homes, can be attributed to the State. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I worked on a project to privatise care homes back in the 90s, because they were too expensive for the local budget.
They were promised by private companies but obviously care is expensive. Same as private hospitals generally do the very routine operations, knees, tonsils, heart, hips etc, because they know exactly to the penny on costs.
Lost both my parents to this virus. I held my dad as he passed. I was lucky to be able to sleep in his room on the floor, and we kinda tried to isolate ourselves. It was a care home run by nuns, so no PPE at all, just God! I've heard of many I met have now either pulled through or died. We didn't have a funeral, it was dead, bed, few prayers, oven. Sounds harsh but we were not allowed a funeral or gathering.
Government, yes have a role and blame in this time, but so do we, because we outsource our caring responsibility instead of taking care of our parents ourselves."
That's awful! My condolences |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I worked on a project to privatise care homes back in the 90s, because they were too expensive for the local budget.
They were promised by private companies but obviously care is expensive. Same as private hospitals generally do the very routine operations, knees, tonsils, heart, hips etc, because they know exactly to the penny on costs.
Lost both my parents to this virus. I held my dad as he passed. I was lucky to be able to sleep in his room on the floor, and we kinda tried to isolate ourselves. It was a care home run by nuns, so no PPE at all, just God! I've heard of many I met have now either pulled through or died. We didn't have a funeral, it was dead, bed, few prayers, oven. Sounds harsh but we were not allowed a funeral or gathering.
Government, yes have a role and blame in this time, but so do we, because we outsource our caring responsibility instead of taking care of our parents ourselves."
Sorry to hear about your loss, genuinely.
However, how do you expect the average citizen to look after their parents full time, just, out of a crisis situation. I helped care for my terminal grandmother whilst doing my MA degree. I only had a part time job, and my studies, and without the care workers and my family I would have been snowed under.
We go private, and in other countries, pay for public services to do the medical work so that tragedy doesn't disrupt our lives too much. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Most care homes are private.
But some how it will end up being the government’s failure....
She was refused oxygen or treatment by an nhs doctor and carehome staff were effectively abandoned to deal with it themselves "
This is the norm
DNARs have been pushed on residents by GPs for the past few months so they can just leave them to rot in the hands of care staff who are not medically trained and who have no access to basic respiratory support such as oxygen, suction etc to be able to make those poor people comfortable at least |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Most care homes are private.
But some how it will end up being the government’s failure....  "
Yhe tories usually outsource the profits to their tory chums.. Except responsibility.. Pass the buck on, usual tactic |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Most care homes are private.
But some how it will end up being the government’s failure...."
Watch the sky news report, or perhaps read:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/13/ministers-were-warned-two-years-ago-of-care-homes-exposure-to-pandemics
Remember that it could be you in years to come and I sincerely hope not. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Most care homes are private.
But some how it will end up being the government’s failure....
Yhe tories usually outsource the profits to their tory chums.. Except responsibility.. Pass the buck on, usual tactic"
Let's keep party politics out of it as labour hands are far from clean on this. Care homes are a fuck up have been for the last 50 year's. NHS and local government have run away from the problem blaming each other, no one wants the bill so private sector cash in 800/1000 per room. But asked where there ppe is oh that's the government’s job to pay for that,hope this is going to be sorted when all over. |
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"Ah I knew it would be the government fault. (It’s not the governments fault, but you keep trying to tell yourself that)
"
Part of a government's job is creating and enforcing laws and regulations to make sure businesses meet certain standards.
Though I'm sure you know this and are just cheerleading for the Tories.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Ah I knew it would be the government fault. (It’s not the governments fault, but you keep trying to tell yourself that)
Part of a government's job is creating and enforcing laws and regulations to make sure businesses meet certain standards.
Though I'm sure you know this and are just cheerleading for the Tories.
"
It was mentioned that one government regulation meant that patients released from hospital and to go back into care homes were not to be tested.
A care home manager was told that if he refused to take the untested patients back, then social services would be notified and another care home found. So yes, the government is to blame here. |
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By *eeBee67Man
over a year ago
Masked and Distant |
A serious question.
Are privately run care homes not like any other business? But with a lot tighter regulations.
They make profits, and pay taxes, like for example a shop, or factory. Yet at the shops and factories they have to provide their own PPE etc from their profits.
Where and how do private hospitals source their ppe?
Globalisation and capitalism to blame? Would love to see a list of communist countries (all of them as I only know of a couple) to compare how they are doing amongst the wider world. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"A serious question.
Are privately run care homes not like any other business? But with a lot tighter regulations.
They make profits, and pay taxes, like for example a shop, or factory. Yet at the shops and factories they have to provide their own PPE etc from their profits.
Where and how do private hospitals source their ppe?
Globalisation and capitalism to blame? Would love to see a list of communist countries (all of them as I only know of a couple) to compare how they are doing amongst the wider world."
Yes they have a responsibility, however I'm not sure if their contract includes being forced to take untested patients from the nhs, endangering carehome staff and residents., forcing them to operate when they are struggling to find ppe.
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"Ah I knew it would be the government fault. (It’s not the governments fault, but you keep trying to tell yourself that)
Part of a government's job is creating and enforcing laws and regulations to make sure businesses meet certain standards.
Though I'm sure you know this and are just cheerleading for the Tories.
It was mentioned that one government regulation meant that patients released from hospital and to go back into care homes were not to be tested.
A care home manager was told that if he refused to take the untested patients back, then social services would be notified and another care home found. So yes, the government is to blame here. "
This..
Care home owners and managers have spoken of residents being returned to them from hospitals, some untested and some positive at midnight and even 2am..
They had no choice but to accept them even though they were struggling to access ppe..
The figures out today that a quarter of the 55,000 extra deaths up to the 8th May since this pandemic are from care homes is a sad reflection of this virus and how that demographic have been less than protected.. |
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"
Lost both my parents to this virus. I held my dad as he passed. I was lucky to be able to sleep in his room on the floor, and we kinda tried to isolate ourselves. It was a care home run by nuns, so no PPE at all, just God! I've heard of many I met have now either pulled through or died. We didn't have a funeral, it was dead, bed, few prayers, oven. Sounds harsh but we were not allowed a funeral or gathering.
"
This is the saddest, most tragic thing I've read in a long time. Hope you're coping ok. |
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"Care home owners and managers have spoken of residents being returned to them from hospitals, some untested and some positive at midnight and even 2am..
They had no choice but to accept them even though they were struggling to access ppe..
The figures out today that a quarter of the 55,000 extra deaths up to the 8th May since this pandemic are from care homes is a sad reflection of this virus and how that demographic have been less than protected.. "
Contrast with South Korea and Germany. Officials from both gave evidence to the health select comittee today. Korea didn't send anyone back to a care home unless tested negative, and locked down the whole sector. Result? No deaths. None, zero. Germany's policy wasn't as clearly spelled out but seemed to be keep in hospital where possible, quarantine if returned to a home. Care home deaths there are around a quarter of ours.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A serious question.
Are privately run care homes not like any other business? But with a lot tighter regulations.
They make profits, and pay taxes, like for example a shop, or factory. Yet at the shops and factories they have to provide their own PPE etc from their profits.
Where and how do private hospitals source their ppe?
Globalisation and capitalism to blame? Would love to see a list of communist countries (all of them as I only know of a couple) to compare how they are doing amongst the wider world."
You've mentioned both private hospitals and social care homes, and then seem to have lumped them together in the PPE question.
Currently all private hospital resources are being used by the NHS after the UK gov came to an arrangement.
Due to regulations, I would presume most PPE under normal circumstances comes from the same suppliers to the NHS and private hospitals. Not many social care homes bother with advanced PPE under normal circumstances as they are not really seen as part of the health care system, so I cannot say on that.
Though it's common practice in the Scandinavian countries, Germany and advanced south east Asian countries. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Most care homes are private.
But some how it will end up being the government’s failure....
Yhe tories usually outsource the profits to their tory chums.. Except responsibility.. Pass the buck on, usual tacticLet's keep party politics out of it as labour hands are far from clean on this. Care homes are a fuck up have been for the last 50 year's. NHS and local government have run away from the problem blaming each other, no one wants the bill so private sector cash in 800/1000 per room. But asked where there ppe is oh that's the government’s job to pay for that,hope this is going to be sorted when all over."
WRONG!, the sooner political meddling is stoped, the sooner people will dtop dying! |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Seen a reporter's visit to care homes. uncomfortable to watch as one care home resident asking for help by being taken to a hospital but was refused and lster died, struggling to breathe while family could only watch through a window. I would have thought a bottle of oxygen and mask could/would have been provided at least, especially as she was speaking and aware of what wad happening.
Shocked to see the lack of ppe also. One care home manager was supplied gloves by a tyre fitter garage., but no masks, no aptons, no goggles. Vrry hard to see how matt Hancock white washing over it when confronted by the reporter
"
I have two friends who work in care homes and they say there has been deaths but they themselves have had plenty of PPE and the people that died where at deaths door anyway,both different care homes,just saying |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Seen a reporter's visit to care homes. uncomfortable to watch as one care home resident asking for help by being taken to a hospital but was refused and lster died, struggling to breathe while family could only watch through a window. I would have thought a bottle of oxygen and mask could/would have been provided at least, especially as she was speaking and aware of what wad happening.
Shocked to see the lack of ppe also. One care home manager was supplied gloves by a tyre fitter garage., but no masks, no aptons, no goggles. Vrry hard to see how matt Hancock white washing over it when confronted by the reporter
I have two friends who work in care homes and they say there has been deaths but they themselves have had plenty of PPE and the people that died where at deaths door anyway,both different care homes,just saying"
Fair point. Other countries did better than us though. a lot better with care homes |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"A serious question.
Are privately run care homes not like any other business? But with a lot tighter regulations.
They make profits, and pay taxes, like for example a shop, or factory. Yet at the shops and factories they have to provide their own PPE etc from their profits.
Where and how do private hospitals source their ppe?
Globalisation and capitalism to blame? Would love to see a list of communist countries (all of them as I only know of a couple) to compare how they are doing amongst the wider world."
The government instructed suppliers of ppe that they could only sell to the NHS whrn the crisis hit! No ppe for care homes |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A serious question.
Are privately run care homes not like any other business? But with a lot tighter regulations.
They make profits, and pay taxes, like for example a shop, or factory. Yet at the shops and factories they have to provide their own PPE etc from their profits.
Where and how do private hospitals source their ppe?
Globalisation and capitalism to blame? Would love to see a list of communist countries (all of them as I only know of a couple) to compare how they are doing amongst the wider world.
The government instructed suppliers of ppe that they could only sell to the NHS whrn the crisis hit! No ppe for care homes"
No they didn't. They instructed NHS trusts to order through the government centrally instead of sourcing independently so they weren't all competing for the same supplies. This is standard practice for large scale logistical purchasing for crisis situations, especially when you involve the military in the logistics chain. It is simply more efficient. A number of companies I work with have been able to place orders as normal with PPE suppliers although there have been delays in receiving some of it due to the massive demand currently. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"A serious question.
Are privately run care homes not like any other business? But with a lot tighter regulations.
They make profits, and pay taxes, like for example a shop, or factory. Yet at the shops and factories they have to provide their own PPE etc from their profits.
Where and how do private hospitals source their ppe?
Globalisation and capitalism to blame? Would love to see a list of communist countries (all of them as I only know of a couple) to compare how they are doing amongst the wider world.
The government instructed suppliers of ppe that they could only sell to the NHS whrn the crisis hit! No ppe for care homes
No they didn't. They instructed NHS trusts to order through the government centrally instead of sourcing independently so they weren't all competing for the same supplies. This is standard practice for large scale logistical purchasing for crisis situations, especially when you involve the military in the logistics chain. It is simply more efficient. A number of companies I work with have been able to place orders as normal with PPE suppliers although there have been delays in receiving some of it due to the massive demand currently."
So what did you think of the sky news report? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Most care homes are private.
But some how it will end up being the government’s failure....
She was refused oxygen or treatment by an nhs doctor and carehome staff were effectively abandoned to deal with it themselves
This is the norm
DNARs have been pushed on residents by GPs for the past few months so they can just leave them to rot in the hands of care staff who are not medically trained and who have no access to basic respiratory support such as oxygen, suction etc to be able to make those poor people comfortable at least"
Having a DNACPR in place doesn't stop people being admitted to hospital if necessary. Just means cardiopulmonary resuscitation wouldn't be attempted if their heart stopped. Care homes can call 999.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Most care homes are private.
But some how it will end up being the government’s failure....
She was refused oxygen or treatment by an nhs doctor and carehome staff were effectively abandoned to deal with it themselves
This is the norm
DNARs have been pushed on residents by GPs for the past few months so they can just leave them to rot in the hands of care staff who are not medically trained and who have no access to basic respiratory support such as oxygen, suction etc to be able to make those poor people comfortable at least
Having a DNACPR in place doesn't stop people being admitted to hospital if necessary. Just means cardiopulmonary resuscitation wouldn't be attempted if their heart stopped. Care homes can call 999. "
I am aware what it means and of the protocols, but I appreciate you taking the time to explain.
Unfortunately in my direct personal experience, yours may be different, having one in place has almost always resulted in the healthcare professional, whether that be a g.p or paramedic, leaning heavilly towards not taking an individual into a hospital setting and opting to leave them at the care home instead, even more so during the current Covid situation. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I am aware what it means and of the protocols, but I appreciate you taking the time to explain.
Unfortunately in my direct personal experience, yours may be different, having one in place has almost always resulted in the healthcare professional, whether that be a g.p or paramedic, leaning heavilly towards not taking an individual into a hospital setting and opting to leave them at the care home instead, even more so during the current Covid situation. "
Fair enough. Opposite is happening here with increased NH residents being admitted compared with same time last year. No idea if it's national policy, or just locally, but here they then have to be in hospital 14 days and then have 2 negative covid tests 48 hours apart so spend minimum of 16 days in hospital even if they never had covid and came in with a completely different problem. I wonder if knowing they will be in hospital for at least 16 days is influencing the decision to send in? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
I am aware what it means and of the protocols, but I appreciate you taking the time to explain.
Unfortunately in my direct personal experience, yours may be different, having one in place has almost always resulted in the healthcare professional, whether that be a g.p or paramedic, leaning heavilly towards not taking an individual into a hospital setting and opting to leave them at the care home instead, even more so during the current Covid situation.
Fair enough. Opposite is happening here with increased NH residents being admitted compared with same time last year. No idea if it's national policy, or just locally, but here they then have to be in hospital 14 days and then have 2 negative covid tests 48 hours apart so spend minimum of 16 days in hospital even if they never had covid and came in with a completely different problem. I wonder if knowing they will be in hospital for at least 16 days is influencing the decision to send in? "
Nope they're quite happy to send them straight back here once they're deemed "medically fit" in the hospitals opinion. We won't accept anyone back now without being tested and having a negative result but we have to tell them this otherwise they would just be sent back. |
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