FabSwingers.com > Forums > Virus > Real death rate
Real death rate
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/7-1-britons-previously-infected-004852800.html
Apparently over 7% of people in the UK have had the virus.
That's around 5,000,000 of us.
They extrapolate this from random test results of sections of the entire population..
There is no reason to believe that this is an unrepresentative sample.
Reported cases in the UK according to Worldometer are 303,000.
So for every person who notifies the authorities that they have it there are 14 or 15 who have had it and not realised.
Latest figures show around 46,000 deaths.
So the true death rate is 46,000 out of 5,000,000 which is less than 1%
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ittleMissCaliWoman
over a year ago
trouble most likely, or creating it :) |
As we have no real clue how many have had it till they mass test for antibodies we will never really know. But yea I'm using these figures to reassure people I'm working with x
Although some find it cold .. it's not making light of the tragic loss of life but helping to put some perspective on it for those that are truly terrified |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The numbers of people infect are certainly much higher than what is recorded and the Governments of the UK have all said that but there its doubtful we will ever know how many people have been infected. Unless they do an antibody test on the whole population.
The death rate % will also be lower yes, but you also have to look at the rate being lower because of the lockdown. If we didnt lockdown then deaths would have been much much higher. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
We the public have no idea ,we blindly follow and believe the government, we don’t even know what the nature death rate is or was in comparison and if you don’t believe that the figures are fixed is all pointless and just go with it .. we are being conned  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"https://uk.yahoo.com/news/7-1-britons-previously-infected-004852800.html
Apparently over 7% of people in the UK have had the virus.
That's around 5,000,000 of us.
They extrapolate this from random test results of sections of the entire population..
There is no reason to believe that this is an unrepresentative sample.
Reported cases in the UK according to Worldometer are 303,000.
So for every person who notifies the authorities that they have it there are 14 or 15 who have had it and not realised.
Latest figures show around 46,000 deaths.
So the true death rate is 46,000 out of 5,000,000 which is less than 1%
"
Seroprevalence of anti Sars cov2 antibodies in Geneva (lancet.com)
A population study.
It states for every one person admitted to hospital with cv19, there are 11 in the community. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"https://uk.yahoo.com/news/7-1-britons-previously-infected-004852800.html
Apparently over 7% of people in the UK have had the virus.
That's around 5,000,000 of us.
They extrapolate this from random test results of sections of the entire population..
There is no reason to believe that this is an unrepresentative sample.
Reported cases in the UK according to Worldometer are 303,000.
So for every person who notifies the authorities that they have it there are 14 or 15 who have had it and not realised.
Latest figures show around 46,000 deaths.
So the true death rate is 46,000 out of 5,000,000 which is less than 1%
"
I'd go off the Ons excess deaths. Still around 1% but if you are going to alter the way of looking at statistics. It needs to be done on all levels. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"https://uk.yahoo.com/news/7-1-britons-previously-infected-004852800.html
Apparently over 7% of people in the UK have had the virus.
That's around 5,000,000 of us.
They extrapolate this from random test results of sections of the entire population..
There is no reason to believe that this is an unrepresentative sample.
Reported cases in the UK according to Worldometer are 303,000.
So for every person who notifies the authorities that they have it there are 14 or 15 who have had it and not realised.
Latest figures show around 46,000 deaths.
So the true death rate is 46,000 out of 5,000,000 which is less than 1%
"
I'm one of the participants in this research. Just sent our second samples off to UK Biobank last week. I am pleased to be part of such important research. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
It- DR - has been faked from the beginning, double/triple counting.
'Probable' without proof C-19 deaths,
C-19 given as cause of death where Cancer/Heart/Kidney/Liver/ Respiratory diseases were left untreated & sufferers died of the actual disease they were suffering rather than C-19. Death Certificates were filled in to heighten the C-19 narrative.
Then there's the blanket DNR policy in NHS & the care home sector.
Most UK deaths occurred after lockdown, not a bad coincidence, eh?
In time truth may out and the real C-19 death toll will come to light.
Matt Hancock himself has called for an urgent review of mortality figures following Oxford virologist prof Yoon Locke's recent publication about the massive disparity in accounting for Pandemic deaths.
Clue; Scotland only counts C-19 for 28 days after that you've a clean bill of health.
PHE, you test + you have C-19 for life.
Get hit by a bus when you're 92 years old, you'll still be classed as a Covid death.
 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"As we have no real clue how many have had it till they mass test for antibodies we will never really know. But yea I'm using these figures to reassure people I'm working with x
Although some find it cold .. it's not making light of the tragic loss of life but helping to put some perspective on it for those that are truly terrified "
the sample size was 20,000. As long as the method of sampling was good then margin of error will be small. I don't think a bigger sample size is necessary. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"https://uk.yahoo.com/news/7-1-britons-previously-infected-004852800.html
Apparently over 7% of people in the UK have had the virus.
That's around 5,000,000 of us.
They extrapolate this from random test results of sections of the entire population..
There is no reason to believe that this is an unrepresentative sample.
Reported cases in the UK according to Worldometer are 303,000.
So for every person who notifies the authorities that they have it there are 14 or 15 who have had it and not realised.
Latest figures show around 46,000 deaths.
So the true death rate is 46,000 out of 5,000,000 which is less than 1%
"
Let’s say it turns out to be about 0.5% mortality and 60% of population get infected.. 200,000 deaths. Doesn’t sounds so bad I guess |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It- DR - has been faked from the beginning, double/triple counting.
'Probable' without proof C-19 deaths,
C-19 given as cause of death where Cancer/Heart/Kidney/Liver/ Respiratory diseases were left untreated & sufferers died of the actual disease they were suffering rather than C-19. Death Certificates were filled in to heighten the C-19 narrative.
Then there's the blanket DNR policy in NHS & the care home sector.
Most UK deaths occurred after lockdown, not a bad coincidence, eh?
In time truth may out and the real C-19 death toll will come to light.
Matt Hancock himself has called for an urgent review of mortality figures following Oxford virologist prof Yoon Locke's recent publication about the massive disparity in accounting for Pandemic deaths.
Clue; Scotland only counts C-19 for 28 days after that you've a clean bill of health.
PHE, you test + you have C-19 for life.
Get hit by a bus when you're 92 years old, you'll still be classed as a Covid death.
"
There is not a blanket DNR policy in any hospital anywhere in the UK. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It- DR - has been faked from the beginning, double/triple counting.
'Probable' without proof C-19 deaths,
C-19 given as cause of death where Cancer/Heart/Kidney/Liver/ Respiratory diseases were left untreated & sufferers died of the actual disease they were suffering rather than C-19. Death Certificates were filled in to heighten the C-19 narrative.
Then there's the blanket DNR policy in NHS & the care home sector.
Most UK deaths occurred after lockdown, not a bad coincidence, eh?
In time truth may out and the real C-19 death toll will come to light.
Matt Hancock himself has called for an urgent review of mortality figures following Oxford virologist prof Yoon Locke's recent publication about the massive disparity in accounting for Pandemic deaths.
Clue; Scotland only counts C-19 for 28 days after that you've a clean bill of health.
PHE, you test + you have C-19 for life.
Get hit by a bus when you're 92 years old, you'll still be classed as a Covid death.
"
Really? I’m going to call bullshit on that as a myth. Surely it is what is written on a death cert is what goes into the official figures, death certs don’t list your lifetime medical history only what the certifying Drs diagnose the likely cause of death and any contributing factors. Someone show me a death cert that states the victim died from injuries sustained in a road traffic collision having been infected with Coronavirus 2 months earlier. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It- DR - has been faked from the beginning, double/triple counting.
'Probable' without proof C-19 deaths,
C-19 given as cause of death where Cancer/Heart/Kidney/Liver/ Respiratory diseases were left untreated & sufferers died of the actual disease they were suffering rather than C-19. Death Certificates were filled in to heighten the C-19 narrative.
Then there's the blanket DNR policy in NHS & the care home sector.
Most UK deaths occurred after lockdown, not a bad coincidence, eh?
In time truth may out and the real C-19 death toll will come to light.
Matt Hancock himself has called for an urgent review of mortality figures following Oxford virologist prof Yoon Locke's recent publication about the massive disparity in accounting for Pandemic deaths.
Clue; Scotland only counts C-19 for 28 days after that you've a clean bill of health.
PHE, you test + you have C-19 for life.
Get hit by a bus when you're 92 years old, you'll still be classed as a Covid death.
"
So the gmnt are exaggerating the figures but are also looking for an enquiry to find the true death rate? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It- DR - has been faked from the beginning, double/triple counting.
'Probable' without proof C-19 deaths,
C-19 given as cause of death where Cancer/Heart/Kidney/Liver/ Respiratory diseases were left untreated & sufferers died of the actual disease they were suffering rather than C-19. Death Certificates were filled in to heighten the C-19 narrative.
Then there's the blanket DNR policy in NHS & the care home sector.
Most UK deaths occurred after lockdown, not a bad coincidence, eh?
In time truth may out and the real C-19 death toll will come to light.
Matt Hancock himself has called for an urgent review of mortality figures following Oxford virologist prof Yoon Locke's recent publication about the massive disparity in accounting for Pandemic deaths.
Clue; Scotland only counts C-19 for 28 days after that you've a clean bill of health.
PHE, you test + you have C-19 for life.
Get hit by a bus when you're 92 years old, you'll still be classed as a Covid death.
Really? I’m going to call bullshit on that as a myth. Surely it is what is written on a death cert is what goes into the official figures, death certs don’t list your lifetime medical history only what the certifying Drs diagnose the likely cause of death and any contributing factors. Someone show me a death cert that states the victim died from injuries sustained in a road traffic collision having been infected with Coronavirus 2 months earlier."
Death certs often have more than one reason for death.
For example. My previous partner had both a heart condition and being pregnant as a cause of death. One was considerably more to blame than the other but both only the cert as factors.
It's possible that Covid has been added to certs as a contributing factor. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
There really are no real source of the true number as many cases that are not covid related get written of as covid, so it get an unfair representation of what really goes on behind the scenes and it makes you wonder the motives about it. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"As we have no real clue how many have had it till they mass test for antibodies we will never really know. But yea I'm using these figures to reassure people I'm working with x
Although some find it cold .. it's not making light of the tragic loss of life but helping to put some perspective on it for those that are truly terrified
the sample size was 20,000. As long as the method of sampling was good then margin of error will be small. I don't think a bigger sample size is necessary."
The sample are UK Biobank participants (a long standing research programme) plus the children or grandchildren of participants. Only 1 family member was allowed to take part (I am, my dad is not, but he's a Biobank participant). This minimises "grouping" of results due to the proximity of living together. Normally, UK Biobank participants are over 60, but they opened this research up to relatives, to include all ages above 18. I'd link you to the UK Biobank details, but not allowed. You can Google to see the nature of what it does. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"https://uk.yahoo.com/news/7-1-britons-previously-infected-004852800.html
Apparently over 7% of people in the UK have had the virus.
That's around 5,000,000 of us.
They extrapolate this from random test results of sections of the entire population..
There is no reason to believe that this is an unrepresentative sample.
Reported cases in the UK according to Worldometer are 303,000.
So for every person who notifies the authorities that they have it there are 14 or 15 who have had it and not realised.
Latest figures show around 46,000 deaths.
So the true death rate is 46,000 out of 5,000,000 which is less than 1%
"
Using your figures:
if we take herd immunity at 60% of the population and let’s stick in the middle of excess deaths and say 55k is the death toll for 7% infected then we could have a scenario of herd immunity after around 470,000 deaths.
Problem is we don’t have anything to guarantee or suggest that herd immunity would work as timescales and variation changes in the virus call that into doubt.
It’s one heck of a gamble. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"It- DR - has been faked from the beginning, double/triple counting.
'Probable' without proof C-19 deaths,
C-19 given as cause of death where Cancer/Heart/Kidney/Liver/ Respiratory diseases were left untreated & sufferers died of the actual disease they were suffering rather than C-19. Death Certificates were filled in to heighten the C-19 narrative.
Then there's the blanket DNR policy in NHS & the care home sector.
Most UK deaths occurred after lockdown, not a bad coincidence, eh?
In time truth may out and the real C-19 death toll will come to light.
Matt Hancock himself has called for an urgent review of mortality figures following Oxford virologist prof Yoon Locke's recent publication about the massive disparity in accounting for Pandemic deaths.
Clue; Scotland only counts C-19 for 28 days after that you've a clean bill of health.
PHE, you test + you have C-19 for life.
Get hit by a bus when you're 92 years old, you'll still be classed as a Covid death.
Really? I’m going to call bullshit on that as a myth. Surely it is what is written on a death cert is what goes into the official figures, death certs don’t list your lifetime medical history only what the certifying Drs diagnose the likely cause of death and any contributing factors. Someone show me a death cert that states the victim died from injuries sustained in a road traffic collision having been infected with Coronavirus 2 months earlier.
Death certs often have more than one reason for death.
For example. My previous partner had both a heart condition and being pregnant as a cause of death. One was considerably more to blame than the other but both only the cert as factors.
It's possible that Covid has been added to certs as a contributing factor. "
**...Death certs often have more than one reason for death....It's possible that Covid has been added to certs as a contributing factor...."**
----------------------------
That's correct  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"https://uk.yahoo.com/news/7-1-britons-previously-infected-004852800.html
Apparently over 7% of people in the UK have had the virus.
That's around 5,000,000 of us.
They extrapolate this from random test results of sections of the entire population..
There is no reason to believe that this is an unrepresentative sample.
Reported cases in the UK according to Worldometer are 303,000.
So for every person who notifies the authorities that they have it there are 14 or 15 who have had it and not realised.
Latest figures show around 46,000 deaths.
So the true death rate is 46,000 out of 5,000,000 which is less than 1%
Using your figures:
if we take herd immunity at 60% of the population and let’s stick in the middle of excess deaths and say 55k is the death toll for 7% infected then we could have a scenario of herd immunity after around 470,000 deaths.
Problem is we don’t have anything to guarantee or suggest that herd immunity would work as timescales and variation changes in the virus call that into doubt.
It’s one heck of a gamble."
Charlie, sure I've seen you writing eloquently on this before. Question.. Is there any evidence yet that for this virus we can acquire herd immunity? The last I saw, not all infected develop antibodies, in those that have developed antibodies, many have not remained after a short period of time (3 months) and for those that have regained antibodies there is not yet evidence that it will prevent reinfection or damage to organs... Is that still true or is there new scientific evidence to the contrary? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"https://uk.yahoo.com/news/7-1-britons-previously-infected-004852800.html
Apparently over 7% of people in the UK have had the virus.
That's around 5,000,000 of us.
They extrapolate this from random test results of sections of the entire population..
There is no reason to believe that this is an unrepresentative sample.
Reported cases in the UK according to Worldometer are 303,000.
So for every person who notifies the authorities that they have it there are 14 or 15 who have had it and not realised.
Latest figures show around 46,000 deaths.
So the true death rate is 46,000 out of 5,000,000 which is less than 1%
Using your figures:
if we take herd immunity at 60% of the population and let’s stick in the middle of excess deaths and say 55k is the death toll for 7% infected then we could have a scenario of herd immunity after around 470,000 deaths.
Problem is we don’t have anything to guarantee or suggest that herd immunity would work as timescales and variation changes in the virus call that into doubt.
It’s one heck of a gamble.
Charlie, sure I've seen you writing eloquently on this before. Question.. Is there any evidence yet that for this virus we can acquire herd immunity? The last I saw, not all infected develop antibodies, in those that have developed antibodies, many have not remained after a short period of time (3 months) and for those that have regained antibodies there is not yet evidence that it will prevent reinfection or damage to organs... Is that still true or is there new scientific evidence to the contrary? "
All you say is true, Backformore |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"https://uk.yahoo.com/news/7-1-britons-previously-infected-004852800.html
Apparently over 7% of people in the UK have had the virus.
That's around 5,000,000 of us.
They extrapolate this from random test results of sections of the entire population..
There is no reason to believe that this is an unrepresentative sample.
Reported cases in the UK according to Worldometer are 303,000.
So for every person who notifies the authorities that they have it there are 14 or 15 who have had it and not realised.
Latest figures show around 46,000 deaths.
So the true death rate is 46,000 out of 5,000,000 which is less than 1%
Using your figures:
if we take herd immunity at 60% of the population and let’s stick in the middle of excess deaths and say 55k is the death toll for 7% infected then we could have a scenario of herd immunity after around 470,000 deaths.
Problem is we don’t have anything to guarantee or suggest that herd immunity would work as timescales and variation changes in the virus call that into doubt.
It’s one heck of a gamble.
Charlie, sure I've seen you writing eloquently on this before. Question.. Is there any evidence yet that for this virus we can acquire herd immunity? The last I saw, not all infected develop antibodies, in those that have developed antibodies, many have not remained after a short period of time (3 months) and for those that have regained antibodies there is not yet evidence that it will prevent reinfection or damage to organs... Is that still true or is there new scientific evidence to the contrary? "
**"...Is that still true or is there new scientific evidence to the contrary? ..."**
--------------------------
You've raised valid points and questions.
There is no conclusive scientific evidence (yet) on the issue of immunity with covid 19 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Charlie, sure I've seen you writing eloquently on this before. Question.. Is there any evidence yet that for this virus we can acquire herd immunity? The last I saw, not all infected develop antibodies, in those that have developed antibodies, many have not remained after a short period of time (3 months) and for those that have regained antibodies there is not yet evidence that it will prevent reinfection or damage to organs... Is that still true or is there new scientific evidence to the contrary? "
Firstly my personal insight... I was unwell to a significant but not hospitalised level for 3 weeks, during that time I swabbed positive twice for covid-19 before I swabbed clear. I am relatively certain I have had the virus.
Two months post covid I developed mild pneumonia, did swab clear for covid but required antibiotics to recover. I felt it was a relapse from my previous illness.
When the NW nightingale closed 4 months after swabbing positive I had the antibody test and showed to have no antibodies present. I was advised 20% of people who are confirmed positive get this same result.
I joined the vaccination testing last week but as of yet can share no insight to my experience of that.
In terms of my borrowed knowledge from the clinical and informed people around me at work: there are no guarantees. No trials thus far have tried to reinfect recovered patients, there has however been a study using monkeys that did successfully reinfect them so there is a serious question mark about our long term immunity.
There is also thinking connected with the other similar viruses that have been studied for a far greater period and their ability to adapt and mutate has proved a barrier to a successful vaccine/immunity. Covid-19 already has a number of variants and there is talk that even a vaccine that did work would need modification and a boosting at regular intervals.
The top line: we just don’t know, it’s far too early to understand the trials data. The ‘hopeful’ signs are like saying Liverpool will win the league after two games played. I sincerely hope the science is kind to us but to state either positively or negatively at this stage is just a hope/guess and actually quite misleading. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"It- DR - has been faked from the beginning, double/triple counting.
'Probable' without proof C-19 deaths,
C-19 given as cause of death where Cancer/Heart/Kidney/Liver/ Respiratory diseases were left untreated & sufferers died of the actual disease they were suffering rather than C-19. Death Certificates were filled in to heighten the C-19 narrative.
Then there's the blanket DNR policy in NHS & the care home sector.
Most UK deaths occurred after lockdown, not a bad coincidence, eh?
In time truth may out and the real C-19 death toll will come to light.
Matt Hancock himself has called for an urgent review of mortality figures following Oxford virologist prof Yoon Locke's recent publication about the massive disparity in accounting for Pandemic deaths.
Clue; Scotland only counts C-19 for 28 days after that you've a clean bill of health.
PHE, you test + you have C-19 for life.
Get hit by a bus when you're 92 years old, you'll still be classed as a Covid death.
"
**...Most UK deaths occurred after lockdown, not a bad coincidence, eh?.."**
-----------------------------
Because most infections happened *before* lock down, not during lock down when most people were indoors.
So, people got infected before lock down and died after lock down.
You get infected first, then die later, not the other way round. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It- DR - has been faked from the beginning, double/triple counting.
'Probable' without proof C-19 deaths,
C-19 given as cause of death where Cancer/Heart/Kidney/Liver/ Respiratory diseases were left untreated & sufferers died of the actual disease they were suffering rather than C-19. Death Certificates were filled in to heighten the C-19 narrative.
Then there's the blanket DNR policy in NHS & the care home sector.
Most UK deaths occurred after lockdown, not a bad coincidence, eh?
In time truth may out and the real C-19 death toll will come to light.
Matt Hancock himself has called for an urgent review of mortality figures following Oxford virologist prof Yoon Locke's recent publication about the massive disparity in accounting for Pandemic deaths.
Clue; Scotland only counts C-19 for 28 days after that you've a clean bill of health.
PHE, you test + you have C-19 for life.
Get hit by a bus when you're 92 years old, you'll still be classed as a Covid death.
Really? I’m going to call bullshit on that as a myth. Surely it is what is written on a death cert is what goes into the official figures, death certs don’t list your lifetime medical history only what the certifying Drs diagnose the likely cause of death and any contributing factors. Someone show me a death cert that states the victim died from injuries sustained in a road traffic collision having been infected with Coronavirus 2 months earlier.
Death certs often have more than one reason for death.
For example. My previous partner had both a heart condition and being pregnant as a cause of death. One was considerably more to blame than the other but both only the cert as factors.
It's possible that Covid has been added to certs as a contributing factor. "
That is very different to putting Covid on the death cert of someone who has long recovered from the virus and is hit by a bus which was the earlier suggestion! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Only 60 have died in the area i live in and they were elderly with underlying conditions.."
Are you really suggesting we should accept all those over 60 with any medical condition ie pretty much all those over 60, are expendable? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Charlie, sure I've seen you writing eloquently on this before. Question.. Is there any evidence yet that for this virus we can acquire herd immunity? The last I saw, not all infected develop antibodies, in those that have developed antibodies, many have not remained after a short period of time (3 months) and for those that have regained antibodies there is not yet evidence that it will prevent reinfection or damage to organs... Is that still true or is there new scientific evidence to the contrary?
Firstly my personal insight... I was unwell to a significant but not hospitalised level for 3 weeks, during that time I swabbed positive twice for covid-19 before I swabbed clear. I am relatively certain I have had the virus.
Two months post covid I developed mild pneumonia, did swab clear for covid but required antibiotics to recover. I felt it was a relapse from my previous illness.
When the NW nightingale closed 4 months after swabbing positive I had the antibody test and showed to have no antibodies present. I was advised 20% of people who are confirmed positive get this same result.
I joined the vaccination testing last week but as of yet can share no insight to my experience of that.
In terms of my borrowed knowledge from the clinical and informed people around me at work: there are no guarantees. No trials thus far have tried to reinfect recovered patients, there has however been a study using monkeys that did successfully reinfect them so there is a serious question mark about our long term immunity.
There is also thinking connected with the other similar viruses that have been studied for a far greater period and their ability to adapt and mutate has proved a barrier to a successful vaccine/immunity. Covid-19 already has a number of variants and there is talk that even a vaccine that did work would need modification and a boosting at regular intervals.
The top line: we just don’t know, it’s far too early to understand the trials data. The ‘hopeful’ signs are like saying Liverpool will win the league after two games played. I sincerely hope the science is kind to us but to state either positively or negatively at this stage is just a hope/guess and actually quite misleading."
Thanks for that... So if I have understood correctly, the fact people continue to spread incorrect and misleading statements that we will acquire herd immunity as a long term mitigation for this virus, is not supported (yet) by any evidence... Indeed with the evidence we currently have would imply it is less likely to happen.
Along with the wishful thinking regarding an effective vaccine.
I guess my point is we need to stop wishing for a miracle and start doing practical things to change our lives to live as safely with the "knowns" of this virus.... Reduce the infections, manage the infected, protect the vulnerable...and if in the meantime we find an effective vaccine... Happy all round.
Imho.. Aspiring to go back to the way things were, will simply lead to frustration and a waste of effort. We need to find a new, safe, normal way to live our lives that doesn't put others at risk.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It- DR - has been faked from the beginning, double/triple counting.
'Probable' without proof C-19 deaths,
C-19 given as cause of death where Cancer/Heart/Kidney/Liver/ Respiratory diseases were left untreated & sufferers died of the actual disease they were suffering rather than C-19. Death Certificates were filled in to heighten the C-19 narrative.
Then there's the blanket DNR policy in NHS & the care home sector.
Most UK deaths occurred after lockdown, not a bad coincidence, eh?
In time truth may out and the real C-19 death toll will come to light.
Matt Hancock himself has called for an urgent review of mortality figures following Oxford virologist prof Yoon Locke's recent publication about the massive disparity in accounting for Pandemic deaths.
Clue; Scotland only counts C-19 for 28 days after that you've a clean bill of health.
PHE, you test + you have C-19 for life.
Get hit by a bus when you're 92 years old, you'll still be classed as a Covid death.
Really? I’m going to call bullshit on that as a myth. Surely it is what is written on a death cert is what goes into the official figures, death certs don’t list your lifetime medical history only what the certifying Drs diagnose the likely cause of death and any contributing factors. Someone show me a death cert that states the victim died from injuries sustained in a road traffic collision having been infected with Coronavirus 2 months earlier.
Death certs often have more than one reason for death.
For example. My previous partner had both a heart condition and being pregnant as a cause of death. One was considerably more to blame than the other but both only the cert as factors.
It's possible that Covid has been added to certs as a contributing factor.
That is very different to putting Covid on the death cert of someone who has long recovered from the virus and is hit by a bus which was the earlier suggestion!"
When you register a death , you collect something called the GREEN FORM, on his is the cause of death that the attending doctor would have given , 3 problems with this ..
All deaths In the community were classed as Covid during this period, 1 the patents doctors refused to go to any death the the community (not hospital) and automatically assumed is was Covid, 2 , a team called P-MART was setup by the government to attend any death in the community and bagged and tagged the deceased, again automatically assumed Covid and never to be tested , 3 , the cause of deaths were completely wrong and if you so wish you can get the cause or secondary cause of death removed from the GREEN FORM as some people don’t want the cause of death to be public knowledge... around in circles and it’s all a big disaster.. I know exactly how this works |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"When you register a death , you collect something called the GREEN FORM, on his is the cause of death that the attending doctor would have given , 3 problems with this ..
All deaths In the community were classed as Covid during this period, 1 the patents doctors refused to go to any death the the community (not hospital) and automatically assumed is was Covid, 2 , a team called P-MART was setup by the government to attend any death in the community and bagged and tagged the deceased, again automatically assumed Covid and never to be tested , 3 , the cause of deaths were completely wrong and if you so wish you can get the cause or secondary cause of death removed from the GREEN FORM as some people don’t want the cause of death to be public knowledge... around in circles and it’s all a big disaster.. I know exactly how this works "
Dear Sir,
Shouting the term GREEN FORM or saying I know exactly how this works does not help make your point any more believable.
Firstly the nature of Covid-19 means the decline of most patients happened either in hospitals or residential care homes. It is well documented that the initial care home deaths where not counted and although there was some adjustment made to the figures it’s still widely believed these fall short of actual covid-19 figures.
The hospital accounting is actually really well documented on the 2 part covid special of Hospital. Have a watch, look at the manner in which legislation at that time dictated deaths needed to be accounted and you’ll see the “grey area” every hospitals mortuary had between covid-19 confirmed deaths and those which they knew with Covid-19 but couldn’t be entered as such. As someone working within an ICU I’d share my colleagues views that the majority of excess deaths this year are still covered by these entries.
Will errors have been made in death certificates in the past 6 months? Of course, doctors, coroners etc have all had the same constraints such as remote working imposed on them plus a massive increase in workload. Where these mistakes numerous and affecting the general message of the figures? No.
And for the record... 45 people die a year after being hit by a bus each year in London, why do people even use this analogy as an example of mass distortion of statistics?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"When you register a death , you collect something called the GREEN FORM, on his is the cause of death that the attending doctor would have given , 3 problems with this ..
All deaths In the community were classed as Covid during this period, 1 the patents doctors refused to go to any death the the community (not hospital) and automatically assumed is was Covid, 2 , a team called P-MART was setup by the government to attend any death in the community and bagged and tagged the deceased, again automatically assumed Covid and never to be tested , 3 , the cause of deaths were completely wrong and if you so wish you can get the cause or secondary cause of death removed from the GREEN FORM as some people don’t want the cause of death to be public knowledge... around in circles and it’s all a big disaster.. I know exactly how this works
Dear Sir,
Shouting the term GREEN FORM or saying I know exactly how this works does not help make your point any more believable.
Firstly the nature of Covid-19 means the decline of most patients happened either in hospitals or residential care homes. It is well documented that the initial care home deaths where not counted and although there was some adjustment made to the figures it’s still widely believed these fall short of actual covid-19 figures.
The hospital accounting is actually really well documented on the 2 part covid special of Hospital. Have a watch, look at the manner in which legislation at that time dictated deaths needed to be accounted and you’ll see the “grey area” every hospitals mortuary had between covid-19 confirmed deaths and those which they knew with Covid-19 but couldn’t be entered as such. As someone working within an ICU I’d share my colleagues views that the majority of excess deaths this year are still covered by these entries.
Will errors have been made in death certificates in the past 6 months? Of course, doctors, coroners etc have all had the same constraints such as remote working imposed on them plus a massive increase in workload. Where these mistakes numerous and affecting the general message of the figures? No.
And for the record... 45 people die a year after being hit by a bus each year in London, why do people even use this analogy as an example of mass distortion of statistics?
"
I think I know who sounds more convincing in this debate |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It- DR - has been faked from the beginning, double/triple counting.
'Probable' without proof C-19 deaths,
C-19 given as cause of death where Cancer/Heart/Kidney/Liver/ Respiratory diseases were left untreated & sufferers died of the actual disease they were suffering rather than C-19. Death Certificates were filled in to heighten the C-19 narrative.
Then there's the blanket DNR policy in NHS & the care home sector.
Most UK deaths occurred after lockdown, not a bad coincidence, eh?
In time truth may out and the real C-19 death toll will come to light.
Matt Hancock himself has called for an urgent review of mortality figures following Oxford virologist prof Yoon Locke's recent publication about the massive disparity in accounting for Pandemic deaths.
Clue; Scotland only counts C-19 for 28 days after that you've a clean bill of health.
PHE, you test + you have C-19 for life.
Get hit by a bus when you're 92 years old, you'll still be classed as a Covid death.
Really? I’m going to call bullshit on that as a myth. Surely it is what is written on a death cert is what goes into the official figures, death certs don’t list your lifetime medical history only what the certifying Drs diagnose the likely cause of death and any contributing factors. Someone show me a death cert that states the victim died from injuries sustained in a road traffic collision having been infected with Coronavirus 2 months earlier.
Death certs often have more than one reason for death.
For example. My previous partner had both a heart condition and being pregnant as a cause of death. One was considerably more to blame than the other but both only the cert as factors.
It's possible that Covid has been added to certs as a contributing factor.
That is very different to putting Covid on the death cert of someone who has long recovered from the virus and is hit by a bus which was the earlier suggestion!
When you register a death , you collect something called the GREEN FORM, on his is the cause of death that the attending doctor would have given , 3 problems with this ..
All deaths In the community were classed as Covid during this period, 1 the patents doctors refused to go to any death the the community (not hospital) and automatically assumed is was Covid, 2 , a team called P-MART was setup by the government to attend any death in the community and bagged and tagged the deceased, again automatically assumed Covid and never to be tested , 3 , the cause of deaths were completely wrong and if you so wish you can get the cause or secondary cause of death removed from the GREEN FORM as some people don’t want the cause of death to be public knowledge... around in circles and it’s all a big disaster.. I know exactly how this works "
Who doesn't want the public to know the cause of death exactly? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It- DR - has been faked from the beginning, double/triple counting.
'Probable' without proof C-19 deaths,
C-19 given as cause of death where Cancer/Heart/Kidney/Liver/ Respiratory diseases were left untreated & sufferers died of the actual disease they were suffering rather than C-19. Death Certificates were filled in to heighten the C-19 narrative.
Then there's the blanket DNR policy in NHS & the care home sector.
Most UK deaths occurred after lockdown, not a bad coincidence, eh?
In time truth may out and the real C-19 death toll will come to light.
Matt Hancock himself has called for an urgent review of mortality figures following Oxford virologist prof Yoon Locke's recent publication about the massive disparity in accounting for Pandemic deaths.
Clue; Scotland only counts C-19 for 28 days after that you've a clean bill of health.
PHE, you test + you have C-19 for life.
Get hit by a bus when you're 92 years old, you'll still be classed as a Covid death.
Really? I’m going to call bullshit on that as a myth. Surely it is what is written on a death cert is what goes into the official figures, death certs don’t list your lifetime medical history only what the certifying Drs diagnose the likely cause of death and any contributing factors. Someone show me a death cert that states the victim died from injuries sustained in a road traffic collision having been infected with Coronavirus 2 months earlier.
Death certs often have more than one reason for death.
For example. My previous partner had both a heart condition and being pregnant as a cause of death. One was considerably more to blame than the other but both only the cert as factors.
It's possible that Covid has been added to certs as a contributing factor.
That is very different to putting Covid on the death cert of someone who has long recovered from the virus and is hit by a bus which was the earlier suggestion!
When you register a death , you collect something called the GREEN FORM, on his is the cause of death that the attending doctor would have given , 3 problems with this ..
All deaths In the community were classed as Covid during this period, 1 the patents doctors refused to go to any death the the community (not hospital) and automatically assumed is was Covid, 2 , a team called P-MART was setup by the government to attend any death in the community and bagged and tagged the deceased, again automatically assumed Covid and never to be tested , 3 , the cause of deaths were completely wrong and if you so wish you can get the cause or secondary cause of death removed from the GREEN FORM as some people don’t want the cause of death to be public knowledge... around in circles and it’s all a big disaster.. I know exactly how this works
Who doesn't want the public to know the cause of death exactly?"
Who do you think ?
First the figures didn’t include care homes and then the numbers jumped, they were never tested and assumed Covid , the number were deliberately adjusted to inject fear .. using Covid as a cover to do what they want .
Not suggesting it’s not a real virus but it’s controlled .
Cashless society,
Data protected,
Tracking.
In one swoop they changed everything and we were asleep at the wheel |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It- DR - has been faked from the beginning, double/triple counting.
'Probable' without proof C-19 deaths,
C-19 given as cause of death where Cancer/Heart/Kidney/Liver/ Respiratory diseases were left untreated & sufferers died of the actual disease they were suffering rather than C-19. Death Certificates were filled in to heighten the C-19 narrative.
Then there's the blanket DNR policy in NHS & the care home sector.
Most UK deaths occurred after lockdown, not a bad coincidence, eh?
In time truth may out and the real C-19 death toll will come to light.
Matt Hancock himself has called for an urgent review of mortality figures following Oxford virologist prof Yoon Locke's recent publication about the massive disparity in accounting for Pandemic deaths.
Clue; Scotland only counts C-19 for 28 days after that you've a clean bill of health.
PHE, you test + you have C-19 for life.
Get hit by a bus when you're 92 years old, you'll still be classed as a Covid death.
Really? I’m going to call bullshit on that as a myth. Surely it is what is written on a death cert is what goes into the official figures, death certs don’t list your lifetime medical history only what the certifying Drs diagnose the likely cause of death and any contributing factors. Someone show me a death cert that states the victim died from injuries sustained in a road traffic collision having been infected with Coronavirus 2 months earlier.
Death certs often have more than one reason for death.
For example. My previous partner had both a heart condition and being pregnant as a cause of death. One was considerably more to blame than the other but both only the cert as factors.
It's possible that Covid has been added to certs as a contributing factor.
That is very different to putting Covid on the death cert of someone who has long recovered from the virus and is hit by a bus which was the earlier suggestion!
When you register a death , you collect something called the GREEN FORM, on his is the cause of death that the attending doctor would have given , 3 problems with this ..
All deaths In the community were classed as Covid during this period, 1 the patents doctors refused to go to any death the the community (not hospital) and automatically assumed is was Covid, 2 , a team called P-MART was setup by the government to attend any death in the community and bagged and tagged the deceased, again automatically assumed Covid and never to be tested , 3 , the cause of deaths were completely wrong and if you so wish you can get the cause or secondary cause of death removed from the GREEN FORM as some people don’t want the cause of death to be public knowledge... around in circles and it’s all a big disaster.. I know exactly how this works
Who doesn't want the public to know the cause of death exactly?
Who do you think ?
First the figures didn’t include care homes and then the numbers jumped, they were never tested and assumed Covid , the number were deliberately adjusted to inject fear .. using Covid as a cover to do what they want .
Not suggesting it’s not a real virus but it’s controlled .
Cashless society,
Data protected,
Tracking.
In one swoop they changed everything and we were asleep at the wheel "
So lets gets this straight...a gmnt who have handled the situation shambolically..have deliberately made the figures look even worse, so we all have to use our cards when we go the asda? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It- DR - has been faked from the beginning, double/triple counting.
'Probable' without proof C-19 deaths,
C-19 given as cause of death where Cancer/Heart/Kidney/Liver/ Respiratory diseases were left untreated & sufferers died of the actual disease they were suffering rather than C-19. Death Certificates were filled in to heighten the C-19 narrative.
Then there's the blanket DNR policy in NHS & the care home sector.
Most UK deaths occurred after lockdown, not a bad coincidence, eh?
In time truth may out and the real C-19 death toll will come to light.
Matt Hancock himself has called for an urgent review of mortality figures following Oxford virologist prof Yoon Locke's recent publication about the massive disparity in accounting for Pandemic deaths.
Clue; Scotland only counts C-19 for 28 days after that you've a clean bill of health.
PHE, you test + you have C-19 for life.
Get hit by a bus when you're 92 years old, you'll still be classed as a Covid death.
Really? I’m going to call bullshit on that as a myth. Surely it is what is written on a death cert is what goes into the official figures, death certs don’t list your lifetime medical history only what the certifying Drs diagnose the likely cause of death and any contributing factors. Someone show me a death cert that states the victim died from injuries sustained in a road traffic collision having been infected with Coronavirus 2 months earlier.
Death certs often have more than one reason for death.
For example. My previous partner had both a heart condition and being pregnant as a cause of death. One was considerably more to blame than the other but both only the cert as factors.
It's possible that Covid has been added to certs as a contributing factor.
That is very different to putting Covid on the death cert of someone who has long recovered from the virus and is hit by a bus which was the earlier suggestion!
When you register a death , you collect something called the GREEN FORM, on his is the cause of death that the attending doctor would have given , 3 problems with this ..
All deaths In the community were classed as Covid during this period, 1 the patents doctors refused to go to any death the the community (not hospital) and automatically assumed is was Covid, 2 , a team called P-MART was setup by the government to attend any death in the community and bagged and tagged the deceased, again automatically assumed Covid and never to be tested , 3 , the cause of deaths were completely wrong and if you so wish you can get the cause or secondary cause of death removed from the GREEN FORM as some people don’t want the cause of death to be public knowledge... around in circles and it’s all a big disaster.. I know exactly how this works
Who doesn't want the public to know the cause of death exactly?"
Some tell me it’s because those in power want to inflate the mortality figures... others tell me those in power are trying to under report the figures |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Who do you think ?
First the figures didn’t include care homes and then the numbers jumped, they were never tested and assumed Covid , the number were deliberately adjusted to inject fear .. using Covid as a cover to do what they want .
Not suggesting it’s not a real virus but it’s controlled .
Cashless society,
Data protected,
Tracking.
In one swoop they changed everything and we were asleep at the wheel "
Whatever it is that you’re smoking can I have some please... I honestly think it would help me sleep whilst having flashbacks of having to enlist help to yank the ventilation tube from the swollen larynx’s of the covid dead.
I can pay cash obviously... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It- DR - has been faked from the beginning, double/triple counting.
'Probable' without proof C-19 deaths,
C-19 given as cause of death where Cancer/Heart/Kidney/Liver/ Respiratory diseases were left untreated & sufferers died of the actual disease they were suffering rather than C-19. Death Certificates were filled in to heighten the C-19 narrative.
Then there's the blanket DNR policy in NHS & the care home sector.
Most UK deaths occurred after lockdown, not a bad coincidence, eh?
In time truth may out and the real C-19 death toll will come to light.
Matt Hancock himself has called for an urgent review of mortality figures following Oxford virologist prof Yoon Locke's recent publication about the massive disparity in accounting for Pandemic deaths.
Clue; Scotland only counts C-19 for 28 days after that you've a clean bill of health.
PHE, you test + you have C-19 for life.
Get hit by a bus when you're 92 years old, you'll still be classed as a Covid death.
Really? I’m going to call bullshit on that as a myth. Surely it is what is written on a death cert is what goes into the official figures, death certs don’t list your lifetime medical history only what the certifying Drs diagnose the likely cause of death and any contributing factors. Someone show me a death cert that states the victim died from injuries sustained in a road traffic collision having been infected with Coronavirus 2 months earlier.
Death certs often have more than one reason for death.
For example. My previous partner had both a heart condition and being pregnant as a cause of death. One was considerably more to blame than the other but both only the cert as factors.
It's possible that Covid has been added to certs as a contributing factor.
That is very different to putting Covid on the death cert of someone who has long recovered from the virus and is hit by a bus which was the earlier suggestion!
When you register a death , you collect something called the GREEN FORM, on his is the cause of death that the attending doctor would have given , 3 problems with this ..
All deaths In the community were classed as Covid during this period, 1 the patents doctors refused to go to any death the the community (not hospital) and automatically assumed is was Covid, 2 , a team called P-MART was setup by the government to attend any death in the community and bagged and tagged the deceased, again automatically assumed Covid and never to be tested , 3 , the cause of deaths were completely wrong and if you so wish you can get the cause or secondary cause of death removed from the GREEN FORM as some people don’t want the cause of death to be public knowledge... around in circles and it’s all a big disaster.. I know exactly how this works
Who doesn't want the public to know the cause of death exactly?
Who do you think ?
First the figures didn’t include care homes and then the numbers jumped, they were never tested and assumed Covid , the number were deliberately adjusted to inject fear .. using Covid as a cover to do what they want .
Not suggesting it’s not a real virus but it’s controlled .
Cashless society,
Data protected,
Tracking.
In one swoop they changed everything and we were asleep at the wheel
So lets gets this straight...a gmnt who have handled the situation shambolically..have deliberately made the figures look even worse, so we all have to use our cards when we go the asda?"
It’s a forum and we are allowed opinions but all of us here know somethings are just not adding up |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"In one swoop they changed everything and we were asleep at the wheel "
Are you implying you where driving the bus who hit the poor guy just recovered from C-19? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It- DR - has been faked from the beginning, double/triple counting.
'Probable' without proof C-19 deaths,
C-19 given as cause of death where Cancer/Heart/Kidney/Liver/ Respiratory diseases were left untreated & sufferers died of the actual disease they were suffering rather than C-19. Death Certificates were filled in to heighten the C-19 narrative.
Then there's the blanket DNR policy in NHS & the care home sector.
Most UK deaths occurred after lockdown, not a bad coincidence, eh?
In time truth may out and the real C-19 death toll will come to light.
Matt Hancock himself has called for an urgent review of mortality figures following Oxford virologist prof Yoon Locke's recent publication about the massive disparity in accounting for Pandemic deaths.
Clue; Scotland only counts C-19 for 28 days after that you've a clean bill of health.
PHE, you test + you have C-19 for life.
Get hit by a bus when you're 92 years old, you'll still be classed as a Covid death.
Really? I’m going to call bullshit on that as a myth. Surely it is what is written on a death cert is what goes into the official figures, death certs don’t list your lifetime medical history only what the certifying Drs diagnose the likely cause of death and any contributing factors. Someone show me a death cert that states the victim died from injuries sustained in a road traffic collision having been infected with Coronavirus 2 months earlier.
Death certs often have more than one reason for death.
For example. My previous partner had both a heart condition and being pregnant as a cause of death. One was considerably more to blame than the other but both only the cert as factors.
It's possible that Covid has been added to certs as a contributing factor.
That is very different to putting Covid on the death cert of someone who has long recovered from the virus and is hit by a bus which was the earlier suggestion!
When you register a death , you collect something called the GREEN FORM, on his is the cause of death that the attending doctor would have given , 3 problems with this ..
All deaths In the community were classed as Covid during this period, 1 the patents doctors refused to go to any death the the community (not hospital) and automatically assumed is was Covid, 2 , a team called P-MART was setup by the government to attend any death in the community and bagged and tagged the deceased, again automatically assumed Covid and never to be tested , 3 , the cause of deaths were completely wrong and if you so wish you can get the cause or secondary cause of death removed from the GREEN FORM as some people don’t want the cause of death to be public knowledge... around in circles and it’s all a big disaster.. I know exactly how this works
Who doesn't want the public to know the cause of death exactly?
Who do you think ?
First the figures didn’t include care homes and then the numbers jumped, they were never tested and assumed Covid , the number were deliberately adjusted to inject fear .. using Covid as a cover to do what they want .
Not suggesting it’s not a real virus but it’s controlled .
Cashless society,
Data protected,
Tracking.
In one swoop they changed everything and we were asleep at the wheel
So lets gets this straight...a gmnt who have handled the situation shambolically..have deliberately made the figures look even worse, so we all have to use our cards when we go the asda?
It’s a forum and we are allowed opinions but all of us here know somethings are just not adding up "
Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course.
I think think a.)why would they make themselves look even more incompetent than they are?
B,)a gmnt which cant even put their own man on The intelligence board can orchestrate this machiavellian plot, just so we use our cards?
Bit far fetched if you ask me. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"In one swoop they changed everything and we were asleep at the wheel
Are you implying you where driving the bus who hit the poor guy just recovered from C-19?
That made me laugh "
We could all do with a bit of laughter me thinks! X |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
