FabSwingers.com > Forums > Virus > The shambles goes on
The shambles goes on
Jump to: Newest in thread
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"THOUSANDS of Covid deaths are set to be wiped off official records, in England, following an urgent review into counting “flaws” papers are reporting today. Fifty million face masks bought by the government in April will not be used in the NHS because of safety concerns reports the BBC. That's millions of your money wasted just like the Nightingale hospitals which were never used. The UK Governments own review on mask wearing, before introducing legislation, says that the evidence that they are beneficial is weak. The Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine recent paper (3rd August) on infrared thermometers concludes "All this adds up to an unreliable device, being used to measure an unreliable proxy, where there is no previous evidence to support its use. The current vogue for use of these machines lends more to marketing than medical evidence." In Wales parents have been urged to be alert to type 1 diabetes after the number of children presenting with symptoms fell by almost a third during the pandemic (BBC Report) Meanwhile thousands are dying because of lack of routine NHS treatments and tests (including an extra 35000 cancer deaths a year)." Just trying to understand your point as that's a whole load of disparate bits of information you've cited there. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"THOUSANDS of Covid deaths are set to be wiped off official records, in England, following an urgent review into counting “flaws” papers are reporting today. Fifty million face masks bought by the government in April will not be used in the NHS because of safety concerns reports the BBC. That's millions of your money wasted just like the Nightingale hospitals which were never used. The UK Governments own review on mask wearing, before introducing legislation, says that the evidence that they are beneficial is weak. The Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine recent paper (3rd August) on infrared thermometers concludes "All this adds up to an unreliable device, being used to measure an unreliable proxy, where there is no previous evidence to support its use. The current vogue for use of these machines lends more to marketing than medical evidence." In Wales parents have been urged to be alert to type 1 diabetes after the number of children presenting with symptoms fell by almost a third during the pandemic (BBC Report) Meanwhile thousands are dying because of lack of routine NHS treatments and tests (including an extra 35000 cancer deaths a year). Just trying to understand your point as that's a whole load of disparate bits of information you've cited there." Think she means it's not going swimmingly. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Indeed.... Just watch Professor Sturgeon on Television berating the people of Aberdeen for having the temerity to go out for a few drinks. No doubt she thinks it's the English people that live and work there in the oil industries fault LOL " The sasernack bug  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"it has always been this way, i used to know a guy who went to school with a certain labour prime minister, he started making flue jabs in his garage, then got the contract from the gov to provide the nhs, he now spends millions a year racing at the highest level, and im sure im not the only one who has a story like this, the worls is corrupt, like it or not" The world isnt corrupt. Systems and people are corrupt. And whilst we shrug our shoulders,they will continue to be | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A friend of mine just took a spin out in his friends new Lamborghini Huracan, before this crisis he was a middle level import/exporter of PPE. Suffice it to say, some people are doing awfully well out of all of this " i dont have a problem with making a profit, we all have to live after all, its blatent profitering that i have a problem with, i know alot of very wealthy people, and im sure some have bent the rules along the way, but they have to sleep ath night, i couldnt, but there are many others who have been whiter than white, i think however the majority are somewhere in the middle | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"it has always been this way, i used to know a guy who went to school with a certain labour prime minister, he started making flue jabs in his garage, then got the contract from the gov to provide the nhs, he now spends millions a year racing at the highest level, and im sure im not the only one who has a story like this, the worls is corrupt, like it or not" It is not possible to make flu jabs in a garage unless equipped with some very sophisticated kit 
Yours Truly
Someone who has worked in the pharmaceutical industry as a microbiologist. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Think she means it's not going swimmingly. " Certainly agree with that. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"it has always been this way, i used to know a guy who went to school with a certain labour prime minister, he started making flue jabs in his garage, then got the contract from the gov to provide the nhs, he now spends millions a year racing at the highest level, and im sure im not the only one who has a story like this, the worls is corrupt, like it or not It is not possible to make flu jabs in a garage unless equipped with some very sophisticated kit
Yours Truly
Someone who has worked in the pharmaceutical industry as a microbiologist. "ok i might have been overstaing my point, but he was a very small player, i think you got my point tho, and from memory he wasnt even making them before he got the contract | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"it has always been this way, i used to know a guy who went to school with a certain labour prime minister, he started making flue jabs in his garage, then got the contract from the gov to provide the nhs, he now spends millions a year racing at the highest level, and im sure im not the only one who has a story like this, the worls is corrupt, like it or not It is not possible to make flu jabs in a garage unless equipped with some very sophisticated kit
Yours Truly
Someone who has worked in the pharmaceutical industry as a microbiologist.
ok i might have been overstaing my point, but he was a very small player, i think you got my point tho, and from memory he wasnt even making them before he got the contract"I honestly am not sure who you are referring to, but it doesn't help your point to "overstate" quite to that extent. I'd assume Tony Blair, as the only Labour PM from the very recent past, but....... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And the return of Karen." Oh lawdy this. They are absolutely everywhere | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Funnily enough, with a novel virus they are learning as they go." Yup and people need to remember that, the media on the other hand are doing all that they can to broadcast negativity everywhere | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Funnily enough, with a novel virus they are learning as they go. Yup and people need to remember that, the media on the other hand are doing all that they can to broadcast negativity everywhere " that maybe BUT they knew and know the difference of dying OF covid and WITH covid pretty early on i think!  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NEC Nightingale hospital currently being dismantled and thrown in a skip (video of the workers on Twitter). It cost £36 million of OUR money to build and is costing another £7 million to dismantle. Meanwhile the propaganda machine keeps spouting rubbish about a 'second wave'. If they really believed in that they wouldn't be skipping it would they? Wake up." Wouldn't you prefer we had excess space for patients than nothing enough? If they hadn't got space people would bitch that they hadn't built more hospitals. They can't win. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NEC Nightingale hospital currently being dismantled and thrown in a skip (video of the workers on Twitter). It cost £36 million of OUR money to build and is costing another £7 million to dismantle. Meanwhile the propaganda machine keeps spouting rubbish about a 'second wave'. If they really believed in that they wouldn't be skipping it would they? Wake up. Wouldn't you prefer we had excess space for patients than nothing enough? If they hadn't got space people would bitch that they hadn't built more hospitals. They can't win. " Not enough* | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NEC Nightingale hospital currently being dismantled and thrown in a skip (video of the workers on Twitter). It cost £36 million of OUR money to build and is costing another £7 million to dismantle. Meanwhile the propaganda machine keeps spouting rubbish about a 'second wave'. If they really believed in that they wouldn't be skipping it would they? Wake up." Also, I cannot find any information that this is even true. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Funnily enough, with a novel virus they are learning as they go. Yup and people need to remember that, the media on the other hand are doing all that they can to broadcast negativity everywhere " It's all the medias fault. Any more scapegoats? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NEC Nightingale hospital currently being dismantled and thrown in a skip (video of the workers on Twitter). It cost £36 million of OUR money to build and is costing another £7 million to dismantle. Meanwhile the propaganda machine keeps spouting rubbish about a 'second wave'. If they really believed in that they wouldn't be skipping it would they? Wake up. Also, I cannot find any information that this is even true. " Actually if you look on Conference News, headline "NEC Confirms full reopening, with NHS Nightingale being decommissioned", date 19/07/2020, it does say it will more or less be removed, bar a small non-Covid standby facility which will remain. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"THOUSANDS of Covid deaths are set to be wiped off official records, in England, following an urgent review into counting “flaws” papers are reporting today. Fifty million face masks bought by the government in April will not be used in the NHS because of safety concerns reports the BBC. That's millions of your money wasted just like the Nightingale hospitals which were never used. The UK Governments own review on mask wearing, before introducing legislation, says that the evidence that they are beneficial is weak. The Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine recent paper (3rd August) on infrared thermometers concludes "All this adds up to an unreliable device, being used to measure an unreliable proxy, where there is no previous evidence to support its use. The current vogue for use of these machines lends more to marketing than medical evidence." In Wales parents have been urged to be alert to type 1 diabetes after the number of children presenting with symptoms fell by almost a third during the pandemic (BBC Report) Meanwhile thousands are dying because of lack of routine NHS treatments and tests (including an extra 35000 cancer deaths a year)." You need to get a grip of what is happening in the world,solving the problems is not like making out a shopping list or setting our alarm clock,it is all very complex.It will take a generation to sort this mess out even if we have the best government the planet has ever known.The mess is not caused by the government | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"im not going to name names on a public forum, but trust me i work in motorsport, and hes a well know playerrunning and paying for a lmp1 tyeqm is millions a year, i know, tbh most eams are payed for by dodgy means, there is a nother guy who payed for his racing by drug smuggling for instance" The world is full of corruption allways has been allways will be it is humanity. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And the return of Karen." Why do I keep seeing 'karen' have I missed something? Is it a FB thing | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"THOUSANDS of Covid deaths are set to be wiped off official records, in England, following an urgent review into counting “flaws” papers are reporting today. Fifty million face masks bought by the government in April will not be used in the NHS because of safety concerns reports the BBC. That's millions of your money wasted just like the Nightingale hospitals which were never used. The UK Governments own review on mask wearing, before introducing legislation, says that the evidence that they are beneficial is weak. The Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine recent paper (3rd August) on infrared thermometers concludes "All this adds up to an unreliable device, being used to measure an unreliable proxy, where there is no previous evidence to support its use. The current vogue for use of these machines lends more to marketing than medical evidence." In Wales parents have been urged to be alert to type 1 diabetes after the number of children presenting with symptoms fell by almost a third during the pandemic (BBC Report) Meanwhile thousands are dying because of lack of routine NHS treatments and tests (including an extra 35000 cancer deaths a year).You need to get a grip of what is happening in the world,solving the problems is not like making out a shopping list or setting our alarm clock,it is all very complex.It will take a generation to sort this mess out even if we have the best government the planet has ever known.The mess is not caused by the government" No one said it was. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"it has always been this way, i used to know a guy who went to school with a certain labour prime minister, he started making flue jabs in his garage, then got the contract from the gov to provide the nhs, he now spends millions a year racing at the highest level, and im sure im not the only one who has a story like this, the worls is corrupt, like it or not It is not possible to make flu jabs in a garage unless equipped with some very sophisticated kit
Yours Truly
Someone who has worked in the pharmaceutical industry as a microbiologist. "Good anecdote though... One day they may make a nursery rhyme from it. I know an old lady who lived in a shoe... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NEC Nightingale hospital currently being dismantled and thrown in a skip (video of the workers on Twitter). It cost £36 million of OUR money to build and is costing another £7 million to dismantle. Meanwhile the propaganda machine keeps spouting rubbish about a 'second wave'. If they really believed in that they wouldn't be skipping it would they? Wake up. Wouldn't you prefer we had excess space for patients than nothing enough? If they hadn't got space people would bitch that they hadn't built more hospitals. They can't win. " Hospitals need to be rammed to the gunnals to keep some happy. Have to say its probably the one thing this lot got right so far. Though if it's true it does seem very odd to be dismantling it before wave 2. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just trying to understand your point as that's a whole load of disparate bits of information you've cited there." It's called cherry-picking evidence - in support of a conspiracy theory that we're not in the middle of an epidemic of a deadly disease that would kill a lot of people without serious measures. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just trying to understand your point as that's a whole load of disparate bits of information you've cited there. It's called cherry-picking evidence - in support of a conspiracy theory that we're not in the middle of an epidemic of a deadly disease that would kill a lot of people without serious measures." Not sure the op is saying that tbh | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The Times reports. The Government has concluded that the world-beating test-and-trace app it has already spent more than £10 billion on isn’t fit for purpose, something the rest of us concluded long ago. Ministers will launch a scaled back version of the coronavirus app this month after accepting that it was not accurate enough to be used for contact tracing. A version that tells people about infection levels in their area and allows them to use personal information to calculate a risk score will be trialled. The app was originally developed as an automated form of contact tracing, but is likely to begin instead as an individualised information and advice service informing people about their personal exposure to coronavirus. The functions being explored include alerting users when they have been in contact with more people than usual. While Bluetooth signalling showing that phones have been near each other is not yet trusted as a basis for instructing people to self-isolate for two weeks, officials hope that giving people data on how many close contacts they have could encourage them to stick to social distancing guidance. These new functions are due to be tested in trials in coming weeks with the hope of having an app available nationwide in time for winter. NHS Test and Trace is planning to launch an app with whichever functions prove effective, in the hope of being able to add automated contact tracing later. The service has previously announced plans to allow people to book coronavirus tests through the app and use it to scan Quick Response codes at pubs and restaurants so patrons can be alerted if other customers test positive. Although contact tracing was the original stated aim of the app, it is now being downplayed by a business plan that refers to the technology as an “app that supports the end-to-end NHS Test and Trace service”. The revival of the app came as Times Radio uncovered evidence that some contact tracers have done minimal work since the NHS Track and Trace programme was launched three months ago. One said: “Since mid-May I’ve done two calls. I know some people who’ve had no calls in that time and some who’ve had four or five . . . Most of the time you sit around and watch Netflix.” £10 billion of taxpayers’ money up in flames so tens of thousands of people can sit around watching Netflix all day." No different to the furlough scheme then. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"10 Billion. Where did you get that number from. You've been watching too much Doctor Evil. "It helps add to their outrage. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" £10 billion of taxpayers’ money up in flames so tens of thousands of people can sit around watching Netflix all day. No different to the furlough scheme then." Nobody is furloughed through choice. We have all been furloughed at our individual employers discretion to try and save our jobs. If you've been working all through this then great, I'm really pleased for you and your bank account. Some of us don't have that choice. You might view it as a waste of money. For some people it's literally kept them alive during this. Imagine having a good 50k salary (not me!) and suddenly being put on UC with no warning. Massive lifestyle change, possibly lose your home etc. For me it's just covered my rent, and everything else has gone on savings or credit cards until work is back. Fortunately I've always kept my cards pretty clear so I had breathing space when this hit, but there are countless stories of people with no savings etc driven to suicide by this. Just because furlough didn't benefit you doesn't make it a waste of money. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A friend of mine just took a spin out in his friends new Lamborghini Huracan, before this crisis he was a middle level import/exporter of PPE. Suffice it to say, some people are doing awfully well out of all of this " And now said PPE is whats what word. Oh yes Crap  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Funnily enough, with a novel virus they are learning as they go. Yup and people need to remember that, the media on the other hand are doing all that they can to broadcast negativity everywhere "  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The mask failures is awful. Research on wearing masks and any protection has been built uo during this epidemic, with varied results. The current picture seems to suggest that the wearing of them is worthwhile. Early on, there was much less evidence on which to make a decision. The UK has certainly been subject to a fairly high level of troublesome findings, due partly to leadership decisions. Our track and trace system is still off course, despite spending £billions via private business operations, friends of the government etc. " the way most people wear them will make them more likely to spread the virus | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It’s FUBAR 2020 is a write-off Covid was floating around in the UK unmanaged from late-2019 onwards. It’s a right load of bollocks that will go down in history as one of the biggest mistakes of mankind. Kids will study it at school in years to come and wonder what the hell was going on. So kids, today were going to study Covid-19 outbreak from 50 years ago. 90% of deaths occurred in those over 70 with underlying health conditions, the majority of which were people on deaths door who lived in nursing homes and couldn’t look after themselves. The rest were overweight/obese people which means they were unhealthy and unfit. Sadly there were a few people who were healthy who also died, but not many. Most people had mild symptoms, some were even asymptomatic. The country shut down, schools closed, pubs closed, you couldn’t get a hair cut. Thousands of people lost their jobs, many businesses went bust. The economy crashed, shops became empty, town centres became lifeless, unless you wanted a mobile phone or a bargain from a charity shop, but you could still get a Greggs sausage roll. The government borrowed millions of pounds in an attempt to help stop the rot, but that had to be paid back by those still in employment with later retirement ages and higher taxes. So kids what do you think???" Wow, it's only sad if healthy people die? The old and overweight don't matter? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It’s FUBAR 2020 is a write-off Covid was floating around in the UK unmanaged from late-2019 onwards. It’s a right load of bollocks that will go down in history as one of the biggest mistakes of mankind. Kids will study it at school in years to come and wonder what the hell was going on. So kids, today were going to study Covid-19 outbreak from 50 years ago. 90% of deaths occurred in those over 70 with underlying health conditions, the majority of which were people on deaths door who lived in nursing homes and couldn’t look after themselves. The rest were overweight/obese people which means they were unhealthy and unfit. Sadly there were a few people who were healthy who also died, but not many. Most people had mild symptoms, some were even asymptomatic. The country shut down, schools closed, pubs closed, you couldn’t get a hair cut. Thousands of people lost their jobs, many businesses went bust. The economy crashed, shops became empty, town centres became lifeless, unless you wanted a mobile phone or a bargain from a charity shop, but you could still get a Greggs sausage roll. The government borrowed millions of pounds in an attempt to help stop the rot, but that had to be paid back by those still in employment with later retirement ages and higher taxes. So kids what do you think???" Looks up empathy in the dictionary | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Be careful they will be calling you a tin foil hat wearer " Valuable as ever. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" In Wales parents have been urged to be alert to type 1 diabetes after the number of children presenting with symptoms fell by almost a third during the pandemic (BBC Report)." Bit of a non story that one. Initial diagnosis is simple, the test to confirm it takes seconds and any GP or practice nurse can do it. They are however dependant on the parents noticing something is wrong with their kids - as are all visits to the GP. Type 1 diabetics are either diagnosed within the first week pr two or they get really ill and get diagnosed then. There aren't 30% T1 diabetics just wandering about because of Covid... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" IMO we are in the midst of an attempt to change the culture and behaviour of UK citizens. " Why? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" IMO we are in the midst of an attempt to change the culture and behaviour of UK citizens. Why?" Find the document from the institude of governance. I don't recall the title but they set out a plan for it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Refer to my previous post FUBAR It’s a right load of bollocks IMO we are in the midst of an attempt to change the culture and behaviour of UK citizens. Strip it all back and look closely at what’s going on" Is it to try and stop the bulk of the populations being fucktards? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" IMO we are in the midst of an attempt to change the culture and behaviour of UK citizens. Why? Find the document from the institude of governance. I don't recall the title but they set out a plan for it." A simple precis will do as the 'institute of governance' appears to not exist... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I agree with you up until the point of the nightingale, they were built as an overflow precaution. Thank goodness they were never used, had they not been built and there was a need for an overflow hospital to be built you would be criticising the government for not building them. Hindsight is a wonderful thing." well must be confident of the 2nd wave being a mild one because they are dismantling it at the moment | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" IMO we are in the midst of an attempt to change the culture and behaviour of UK citizens. Why? Find the document from the institude of governance. I don't recall the title but they set out a plan for it. A simple precis will do as the 'institute of governance' appears to not exist..." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And the return of Karen. Why do I keep seeing 'karen' have I missed something? Is it a FB thing" According to Ken, yes | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" IMO we are in the midst of an attempt to change the culture and behaviour of UK citizens. Why? Find the document from the institude of governance. I don't recall the title but they set out a plan for it. A simple precis will do as the 'institute of governance' appears to not exist..." My bad. The document is called Mindspace See in particular section 2 appendic 3 Website theinstutudeforgovernment org The aim of MINDSPACE is to help them do this, and in doing so get better outcomes for the public and society. A companion paper, Behavioural Government , was published in 2018. This new report builds on the Behavioural Insights Team's work on applying behavioural insights to policymaking and the Institute f | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fucktards are unstoppable. They keep breeding with other fucktards, creating more fucktards. We are doomed. Fucktards are often spotted on an evening loitering around where they shouldn’t be. They rarely use the words please and thank you, and tend to swear several times in one sentence. They have a grey jogger bottom type ploomage, often with a dirty arse, many wear a baseball cap and more often than not, white socks. I’ve just walked my dogs and bumped in to 3 fucktards, probably waiting for some drugs to be dropped off, or to jump somebody to get some money for some drugs - or maybe a KFC - who knows eh " I've got grey trackies. White socks are often sported by sex pests though. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fucktards are unstoppable. They keep breeding with other fucktards, creating more fucktards. We are doomed. Fucktards are often spotted on an evening loitering around where they shouldn’t be. They rarely use the words please and thank you, and tend to swear several times in one sentence. They have a grey jogger bottom type ploomage, often with a dirty arse, many wear a baseball cap and more often than not, white socks. I’ve just walked my dogs and bumped in to 3 fucktards, probably waiting for some drugs to be dropped off, or to jump somebody to get some money for some drugs - or maybe a KFC - who knows eh " You've just described me | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fucktards are unstoppable. They keep breeding with other fucktards, creating more fucktards. We are doomed. Fucktards are often spotted on an evening loitering around where they shouldn’t be. They rarely use the words please and thank you, and tend to swear several times in one sentence. They have a grey jogger bottom type ploomage, often with a dirty arse, many wear a baseball cap and more often than not, white socks. I’ve just walked my dogs and bumped in to 3 fucktards, probably waiting for some drugs to be dropped off, or to jump somebody to get some money for some drugs - or maybe a KFC - who knows eh You've just described me "Well Dash, now we know | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" IMO we are in the midst of an attempt to change the culture and behaviour of UK citizens. Why? Find the document from the institude of governance. I don't recall the title but they set out a plan for it. A simple precis will do as the 'institute of governance' appears to not exist... My bad. The document is called Mindspace See in particular section 2 appendic 3 Website theinstutudeforgovernment org The aim of MINDSPACE is to help them do this, and in doing so get better outcomes for the public and society. A companion paper, Behavioural Government , was published in 2018. This new report builds on the Behavioural Insights Team's work on applying behavioural insights to policymaking and the Institute f" Nope, no such website. I'll save you the bother though. If it's to get better outcomes for the public and society, then I'm all for it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Fucktards are unstoppable. They keep breeding with other fucktards, creating more fucktards. We are doomed. Fucktards are often spotted on an evening loitering around where they shouldn’t be. They rarely use the words please and thank you, and tend to swear several times in one sentence. They have a grey jogger bottom type ploomage, often with a dirty arse, many wear a baseball cap and more often than not, white socks. I’ve just walked my dogs and bumped in to 3 fucktards, probably waiting for some drugs to be dropped off, or to jump somebody to get some money for some drugs - or maybe a KFC - who knows eh " Ah the joys of living with a WF postcode, I’m LS but very close to WF10 and I enjoy the sport of big game fucktard hunting ! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NEC Nightingale hospital currently being dismantled and thrown in a skip (video of the workers on Twitter). It cost £36 million of OUR money to build and is costing another £7 million to dismantle. Meanwhile the propaganda machine keeps spouting rubbish about a 'second wave'. If they really believed in that they wouldn't be skipping it would they? Wake up." Only half of it is going, half is staying till next year. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Funnily enough, with a novel virus they are learning as they go." Funnily enough, other countries seem to have learned a lot quicker, and acted far more sensibly. This is the thing that always strikes me. Nobody likes to admit it but it’s probably better we do, regardless of political persuasion, the key people (as in individuals) who are in charge right now are clearly bumbling idiots. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I agree with you up until the point of the nightingale, they were built as an overflow precaution. Thank goodness they were never used, had they not been built and there was a need for an overflow hospital to be built you would be criticising the government for not building them. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. well must be confident of the 2nd wave being a mild one because they are dismantling it at the moment " they know more about the virus than they did at the start. Gov is more prepared. They are not fully shutting down nightingales, they are being reduced. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Funnily enough, with a novel virus they are learning as they go. Funnily enough, other countries seem to have learned a lot quicker, and acted far more sensibly. This is the thing that always strikes me. Nobody likes to admit it but it’s probably better we do, regardless of political persuasion, the key people (as in individuals) who are in charge right now are clearly bumbling idiots." What have they learnt a lot quicker and how have they acted more sensibly any examples. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" IMO we are in the midst of an attempt to change the culture and behaviour of UK citizens. Why? Find the document from the institude of governance. I don't recall the title but they set out a plan for it. A simple precis will do as the 'institute of governance' appears to not exist... My bad. The document is called Mindspace See in particular section 2 appendic 3 Website theinstutudeforgovernment org The aim of MINDSPACE is to help them do this, and in doing so get better outcomes for the public and society. A companion paper, Behavioural Government , was published in 2018. This new report builds on the Behavioural Insights Team's work on applying behavioural insights to policymaking and the Institute f Nope, no such website. I'll save you the bother though. If it's to get better outcomes for the public and society, then I'm all for it. " I googled this Instituteforgovernment mindspace It came up | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NEC Nightingale hospital currently being dismantled and thrown in a skip (video of the workers on Twitter). It cost £36 million of OUR money to build and is costing another £7 million to dismantle. Meanwhile the propaganda machine keeps spouting rubbish about a 'second wave'. If they really believed in that they wouldn't be skipping it would they? Wake up. Wouldn't you prefer we had excess space for patients than nothing enough? If they hadn't got space people would bitch that they hadn't built more hospitals. They can't win. " But there are always some people who "know" better than the rest of us. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" IMO we are in the midst of an attempt to change the culture and behaviour of UK citizens. Why? Find the document from the institude of governance. I don't recall the title but they set out a plan for it. A simple precis will do as the 'institute of governance' appears to not exist... My bad. The document is called Mindspace See in particular section 2 appendic 3 Website theinstutudeforgovernment org The aim of MINDSPACE is to help them do this, and in doing so get better outcomes for the public and society. A companion paper, Behavioural Government , was published in 2018. This new report builds on the Behavioural Insights Team's work on applying behavioural insights to policymaking and the Institute f" So the U.K. government arrange a world wide pandemic to change the culture of its citizens culture and behaviour. The same government who gave a shipping contract to a company with no ships. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NEC Nightingale hospital currently being dismantled and thrown in a skip (video of the workers on Twitter). It cost £36 million of OUR money to build and is costing another £7 million to dismantle. Meanwhile the propaganda machine keeps spouting rubbish about a 'second wave'. If they really believed in that they wouldn't be skipping it would they? Wake up. Wouldn't you prefer we had excess space for patients than nothing enough? If they hadn't got space people would bitch that they hadn't built more hospitals. They can't win. But there are always some people who "know" better than the rest of us."It boggles my mind, even the good decisions the government have made get ripped to shreds by people. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NEC Nightingale hospital currently being dismantled and thrown in a skip (video of the workers on Twitter). It cost £36 million of OUR money to build and is costing another £7 million to dismantle. Meanwhile the propaganda machine keeps spouting rubbish about a 'second wave'. If they really believed in that they wouldn't be skipping it would they? Wake up. Wouldn't you prefer we had excess space for patients than nothing enough? If they hadn't got space people would bitch that they hadn't built more hospitals. They can't win. But there are always some people who "know" better than the rest of us.
It boggles my mind, even the good decisions the government have made get ripped to shreds by people. "People have absolutely no concept of finance on a country scale 36 million in UK spending terms is like the average person leaving a centimeter of beer at the bottom of their glass and walking away .. peanuts | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NEC Nightingale hospital currently being dismantled and thrown in a skip (video of the workers on Twitter). It cost £36 million of OUR money to build and is costing another £7 million to dismantle. Meanwhile the propaganda machine keeps spouting rubbish about a 'second wave'. If they really believed in that they wouldn't be skipping it would they? Wake up. Wouldn't you prefer we had excess space for patients than nothing enough? If they hadn't got space people would bitch that they hadn't built more hospitals. They can't win. But there are always some people who "know" better than the rest of us.
It boggles my mind, even the good decisions the government have made get ripped to shreds by people.
People have absolutely no concept of finance on a country scale
36 million in UK spending terms is like the average person leaving a centimeter of beer at the bottom of their glass and walking away .. peanuts"Even if it was a larger amount of money, it still would have been worth it for the peace of mind. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NEC Nightingale hospital currently being dismantled and thrown in a skip (video of the workers on Twitter). It cost £36 million of OUR money to build and is costing another £7 million to dismantle. Meanwhile the propaganda machine keeps spouting rubbish about a 'second wave'. If they really believed in that they wouldn't be skipping it would they? Wake up. Wouldn't you prefer we had excess space for patients than nothing enough? If they hadn't got space people would bitch that they hadn't built more hospitals. They can't win. But there are always some people who "know" better than the rest of us.
It boggles my mind, even the good decisions the government have made get ripped to shreds by people.
People have absolutely no concept of finance on a country scale
36 million in UK spending terms is like the average person leaving a centimeter of beer at the bottom of their glass and walking away .. peanuts
Even if it was a larger amount of money, it still would have been worth it for the peace of mind."Yes, but far too many fabexperts live their life through hindsight | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NEC Nightingale hospital currently being dismantled and thrown in a skip (video of the workers on Twitter). It cost £36 million of OUR money to build and is costing another £7 million to dismantle. Meanwhile the propaganda machine keeps spouting rubbish about a 'second wave'. If they really believed in that they wouldn't be skipping it would they? Wake up. Wouldn't you prefer we had excess space for patients than nothing enough? If they hadn't got space people would bitch that they hadn't built more hospitals. They can't win. But there are always some people who "know" better than the rest of us.
It boggles my mind, even the good decisions the government have made get ripped to shreds by people.
People have absolutely no concept of finance on a country scale
36 million in UK spending terms is like the average person leaving a centimeter of beer at the bottom of their glass and walking away .. peanuts"And those on their arse would respect the idea that all of the pint was paid for and not leave the centimetre in the bottom! Although if it’s someone else’s centimetre of beer it’s easy for those with a gallon to scoff as they piss it away! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NEC Nightingale hospital currently being dismantled and thrown in a skip (video of the workers on Twitter). It cost £36 million of OUR money to build and is costing another £7 million to dismantle. Meanwhile the propaganda machine keeps spouting rubbish about a 'second wave'. If they really believed in that they wouldn't be skipping it would they? Wake up. Wouldn't you prefer we had excess space for patients than nothing enough? If they hadn't got space people would bitch that they hadn't built more hospitals. They can't win. But there are always some people who "know" better than the rest of us.
It boggles my mind, even the good decisions the government have made get ripped to shreds by people.
People have absolutely no concept of finance on a country scale
36 million in UK spending terms is like the average person leaving a centimeter of beer at the bottom of their glass and walking away .. peanuts
Even if it was a larger amount of money, it still would have been worth it for the peace of mind."It didn’t provide peace of mind for me.... my thoughts at the time where as happened.... a waste of money! It isn’t hindsight it’s what I said at the time ! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NEC Nightingale hospital currently being dismantled and thrown in a skip (video of the workers on Twitter). It cost £36 million of OUR money to build and is costing another £7 million to dismantle. Meanwhile the propaganda machine keeps spouting rubbish about a 'second wave'. If they really believed in that they wouldn't be skipping it would they? Wake up. Wouldn't you prefer we had excess space for patients than nothing enough? If they hadn't got space people would bitch that they hadn't built more hospitals. They can't win. But there are always some people who "know" better than the rest of us.
It boggles my mind, even the good decisions the government have made get ripped to shreds by people. "There are a whole host of people who will find a problem with any solution. Most of them live in West Wales.... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NEC Nightingale hospital currently being dismantled and thrown in a skip (video of the workers on Twitter). It cost £36 million of OUR money to build and is costing another £7 million to dismantle. Meanwhile the propaganda machine keeps spouting rubbish about a 'second wave'. If they really believed in that they wouldn't be skipping it would they? Wake up. Wouldn't you prefer we had excess space for patients than nothing enough? If they hadn't got space people would bitch that they hadn't built more hospitals. They can't win. But there are always some people who "know" better than the rest of us.
It boggles my mind, even the good decisions the government have made get ripped to shreds by people.
People have absolutely no concept of finance on a country scale
36 million in UK spending terms is like the average person leaving a centimeter of beer at the bottom of their glass and walking away .. peanuts
Even if it was a larger amount of money, it still would have been worth it for the peace of mind.
It didn’t provide peace of mind for me.... my thoughts at the time where as happened.... a waste of money! It isn’t hindsight it’s what I said at the time ! "So at the time when ICU's around the country were filling up and many more people were dying, you thought it was a waste of money to have more beds available for seriously ill people? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"" Of all the tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber barons cruelty sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; But those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with approval of their own conscience."" If ever a single paragraph description of the early 21st century were needed, this would do as good as any. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NEC Nightingale hospital currently being dismantled and thrown in a skip (video of the workers on Twitter). It cost £36 million of OUR money to build and is costing another £7 million to dismantle. Meanwhile the propaganda machine keeps spouting rubbish about a 'second wave'. If they really believed in that they wouldn't be skipping it would they? Wake up. Wouldn't you prefer we had excess space for patients than nothing enough? If they hadn't got space people would bitch that they hadn't built more hospitals. They can't win. But there are always some people who "know" better than the rest of us.
It boggles my mind, even the good decisions the government have made get ripped to shreds by people.
People have absolutely no concept of finance on a country scale
36 million in UK spending terms is like the average person leaving a centimeter of beer at the bottom of their glass and walking away .. peanuts
Even if it was a larger amount of money, it still would have been worth it for the peace of mind.
It didn’t provide peace of mind for me.... my thoughts at the time where as happened.... a waste of money! It isn’t hindsight it’s what I said at the time !
So at the time when ICU's around the country were filling up and many more people were dying, you thought it was a waste of money to have more beds available for seriously ill people? "When you put it like that, yes absolutely, get the beds ready....unless .... unless there were ICUs other wards in hospitals which were clearly undersubscribed.... that’s what I saw when I watched the nurses dancing, it’s what I saw when broadcasts from ICUs with rows of empty beds were on tv it’s what I heard when I spoke to nurses working in local hospitals oh and when I reviewed figures online ( it’s a long time ago I can’t remember the source but it wasn’t Karen off of facepage!) So, while I appreciate I don’t have the vision of Nostradamus, I put two and two together and managed four. For me it was clear then, I stated it to family and friends, so please don’t attempt to deny me the reasoning and foresight I showed. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NEC Nightingale hospital currently being dismantled and thrown in a skip (video of the workers on Twitter). It cost £36 million of OUR money to build and is costing another £7 million to dismantle. Meanwhile the propaganda machine keeps spouting rubbish about a 'second wave'. If they really believed in that they wouldn't be skipping it would they? Wake up." You obviously have no concept regarding how the Nightingale’s worked, their issues or indeed their contract lengths. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"it has always been this way, i used to know a guy who went to school with a certain labour prime minister, he started making flue jabs in his garage, then got the contract from the gov to provide the nhs, he now spends millions a year racing at the highest level, and im sure im not the only one who has a story like this, the worls is corrupt, like it or not It is not possible to make flu jabs in a garage unless equipped with some very sophisticated kit
Yours Truly
Someone who has worked in the pharmaceutical industry as a microbiologist.
ok i might have been overstaing my point, but he was a very small player, i think you got my point tho, and from memory he wasnt even making them before he got the contract"Don’t think anyone got your point! ‘Making flu jabs in his garage’ lol me thinks tongue or fingers running away with themselves...actually your post has made me laugh so thanks for that | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I too am familiar with the C.S.Lewis quotation, and agree wholeheartedly with its sentiment. I have no scientific background to support my view that Government reaction to this event is not only excessive, but will ultimately result in the end of our way of life, imperfect though it probably is. Our descent into authoritarianism, not to mention the loss of our hard earned freedoms for our children and grandchildren, is too great a price to pay for a fight against a virus which will be with us for a long long time. For those who say that it will soon be "safe" to resume our normal lives, bear in mind that there is, nor can there ever be, any such thing as 100% safety. Get used to it, get back to normality, and for the sake of the future, get the economy moving again. " Do you not think that having no scientific background might mean you are asking people to get back to normal when it's not safe to do so. No one is expecting 100% safety, however in the middle of an unprecedented contagious disease things should be done differently. Trying to ignore it and carry on as if nothing is happening will just lead to more deaths. How do you think the economy is going to recover when the customers are dead? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I too am familiar with the C.S.Lewis quotation, and agree wholeheartedly with its sentiment. I have no scientific background to support my view that Government reaction to this event is not only excessive, but will ultimately result in the end of our way of life, imperfect though it probably is. Our descent into authoritarianism, not to mention the loss of our hard earned freedoms for our children and grandchildren, is too great a price to pay for a fight against a virus which will be with us for a long long time. For those who say that it will soon be "safe" to resume our normal lives, bear in mind that there is, nor can there ever be, any such thing as 100% safety. Get used to it, get back to normality, and for the sake of the future, get the economy moving again. Do you not think that having no scientific background might mean you are asking people to get back to normal when it's not safe to do so. No one is expecting 100% safety, however in the middle of an unprecedented contagious disease things should be done differently. Trying to ignore it and carry on as if nothing is happening will just lead to more deaths. How do you think the economy is going to recover when the customers are dead?" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I too am familiar with the C.S.Lewis quotation, and agree wholeheartedly with its sentiment. I have no scientific background to support my view that Government reaction to this event is not only excessive, but will ultimately result in the end of our way of life, imperfect though it probably is. Our descent into authoritarianism, not to mention the loss of our hard earned freedoms for our children and grandchildren, is too great a price to pay for a fight against a virus which will be with us for a long long time. For those who say that it will soon be "safe" to resume our normal lives, bear in mind that there is, nor can there ever be, any such thing as 100% safety. Get used to it, get back to normality, and for the sake of the future, get the economy moving again. Do you not think that having no scientific background might mean you are asking people to get back to normal when it's not safe to do so. No one is expecting 100% safety, however in the middle of an unprecedented contagious disease things should be done differently. Trying to ignore it and carry on as if nothing is happening will just lead to more deaths. How do you think the economy is going to recover when the customers are dead?" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I too am familiar with the C.S.Lewis quotation, and agree wholeheartedly with its sentiment. I have no scientific background to support my view that Government reaction to this event is not only excessive, but will ultimately result in the end of our way of life, imperfect though it probably is. Our descent into authoritarianism, not to mention the loss of our hard earned freedoms for our children and grandchildren, is too great a price to pay for a fight against a virus which will be with us for a long long time. For those who say that it will soon be "safe" to resume our normal lives, bear in mind that there is, nor can there ever be, any such thing as 100% safety. Get used to it, get back to normality, and for the sake of the future, get the economy moving again. Do you not think that having no scientific background might mean you are asking people to get back to normal when it's not safe to do so. No one is expecting 100% safety, however in the middle of an unprecedented contagious disease things should be done differently. Trying to ignore it and carry on as if nothing is happening will just lead to more deaths. How do you think the economy is going to recover when the customers are dead?" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NEC Nightingale hospital currently being dismantled and thrown in a skip (video of the workers on Twitter). It cost £36 million of OUR money to build and is costing another £7 million to dismantle. Meanwhile the propaganda machine keeps spouting rubbish about a 'second wave'. If they really believed in that they wouldn't be skipping it would they? Wake up. Wouldn't you prefer we had excess space for patients than nothing enough? If they hadn't got space people would bitch that they hadn't built more hospitals. They can't win. But there are always some people who "know" better than the rest of us.
It boggles my mind, even the good decisions the government have made get ripped to shreds by people.
People have absolutely no concept of finance on a country scale
36 million in UK spending terms is like the average person leaving a centimeter of beer at the bottom of their glass and walking away .. peanuts
Even if it was a larger amount of money, it still would have been worth it for the peace of mind.
It didn’t provide peace of mind for me.... my thoughts at the time where as happened.... a waste of money! It isn’t hindsight it’s what I said at the time !
So at the time when ICU's around the country were filling up and many more people were dying, you thought it was a waste of money to have more beds available for seriously ill people?
When you put it like that, yes absolutely, get the beds ready....unless .... unless there were ICUs other wards in hospitals which were clearly undersubscribed.... that’s what I saw when I watched the nurses dancing, it’s what I saw when broadcasts from ICUs with rows of empty beds were on tv it’s what I heard when I spoke to nurses working in local hospitals oh and when I reviewed figures online ( it’s a long time ago I can’t remember the source but it wasn’t Karen off of facepage!) So, while I appreciate I don’t have the vision of Nostradamus, I put two and two together and managed four. For me it was clear then, I stated it to family and friends, so please don’t attempt to deny me the reasoning and foresight I showed. "You mean other wards that weren't equipped for life support? You mean the nurses who were every single day risking theirs and their families lives, those nurses that needed a quick bit of relief? I don't think they should have been dancing at work but I don't begrudge them needing abit of downtime to do something silly that probably cheered up some of the patients. This magical foresight you seem to have, could you have not warned us what was going to happen before covid hit our country? The simple fact is, NOBODY knew what was going to happen so over preparing was sensible, everyone has been so quick to condemn our government for not being prepared with enough PPE, but when they do over prepare, they are told they are wasting money. It's almost like people think we have some all knowing leader that can see into the future. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NEC Nightingale hospital currently being dismantled and thrown in a skip (video of the workers on Twitter). It cost £36 million of OUR money to build and is costing another £7 million to dismantle. Meanwhile the propaganda machine keeps spouting rubbish about a 'second wave'. If they really believed in that they wouldn't be skipping it would they? Wake up. Wouldn't you prefer we had excess space for patients than nothing enough? If they hadn't got space people would bitch that they hadn't built more hospitals. They can't win. But there are always some people who "know" better than the rest of us.
It boggles my mind, even the good decisions the government have made get ripped to shreds by people.
People have absolutely no concept of finance on a country scale
36 million in UK spending terms is like the average person leaving a centimeter of beer at the bottom of their glass and walking away .. peanuts
Even if it was a larger amount of money, it still would have been worth it for the peace of mind.
It didn’t provide peace of mind for me.... my thoughts at the time where as happened.... a waste of money! It isn’t hindsight it’s what I said at the time !
So at the time when ICU's around the country were filling up and many more people were dying, you thought it was a waste of money to have more beds available for seriously ill people?
When you put it like that, yes absolutely, get the beds ready....unless .... unless there were ICUs other wards in hospitals which were clearly undersubscribed.... that’s what I saw when I watched the nurses dancing, it’s what I saw when broadcasts from ICUs with rows of empty beds were on tv it’s what I heard when I spoke to nurses working in local hospitals oh and when I reviewed figures online ( it’s a long time ago I can’t remember the source but it wasn’t Karen off of facepage!) So, while I appreciate I don’t have the vision of Nostradamus, I put two and two together and managed four. For me it was clear then, I stated it to family and friends, so please don’t attempt to deny me the reasoning and foresight I showed. "Do you get out much lol.....? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NEC Nightingale hospital currently being dismantled and thrown in a skip (video of the workers on Twitter). It cost £36 million of OUR money to build and is costing another £7 million to dismantle. Meanwhile the propaganda machine keeps spouting rubbish about a 'second wave'. If they really believed in that they wouldn't be skipping it would they? Wake up. Wouldn't you prefer we had excess space for patients than nothing enough? If they hadn't got space people would bitch that they hadn't built more hospitals. They can't win. But there are always some people who "know" better than the rest of us.
It boggles my mind, even the good decisions the government have made get ripped to shreds by people.
People have absolutely no concept of finance on a country scale
36 million in UK spending terms is like the average person leaving a centimeter of beer at the bottom of their glass and walking away .. peanuts
Even if it was a larger amount of money, it still would have been worth it for the peace of mind.
It didn’t provide peace of mind for me.... my thoughts at the time where as happened.... a waste of money! It isn’t hindsight it’s what I said at the time !
So at the time when ICU's around the country were filling up and many more people were dying, you thought it was a waste of money to have more beds available for seriously ill people?
When you put it like that, yes absolutely, get the beds ready....unless .... unless there were ICUs other wards in hospitals which were clearly undersubscribed.... that’s what I saw when I watched the nurses dancing, it’s what I saw when broadcasts from ICUs with rows of empty beds were on tv it’s what I heard when I spoke to nurses working in local hospitals oh and when I reviewed figures online ( it’s a long time ago I can’t remember the source but it wasn’t Karen off of facepage!) So, while I appreciate I don’t have the vision of Nostradamus, I put two and two together and managed four. For me it was clear then, I stated it to family and friends, so please don’t attempt to deny me the reasoning and foresight I showed.
You mean other wards that weren't equipped for life support? You mean the nurses who were every single day risking theirs and their families lives, those nurses that needed a quick bit of relief? I don't think they should have been dancing at work but I don't begrudge them needing abit of downtime to do something silly that probably cheered up some of the patients. This magical foresight you seem to have, could you have not warned us what was going to happen before covid hit our country? The simple fact is, NOBODY knew what was going to happen so over preparing was sensible, everyone has been so quick to condemn our government for not being prepared with enough PPE, but when they do over prepare, they are told they are wasting money. It's almost like people think we have some all knowing leader that can see into the future. "Well said
I don't like Boris nor the Tories but i think that on the whole the government has done well considoring this was unknown. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Is it seriously your contention that covid will kill all, or even the majority, of future customers of the UK economy? That would amount to millions of deaths, and the mortality rate indicates no such possibility. Our freedoms are more precious than most people realise, except when the loss of those freedoms becomes obvious. Luckily, I won't be around to have to fight to regain those freedoms, but I do not envy those who will have to...my children.your children, and all our grandchildren. " Well the last time I checked, you can get in your car and travel anywhere in the UK, you can go on a pubcrawl, you can go shopping without a mask, you can protest on the streets of London in the middle of a pandemic, you can be rescued in the middle of the channel and be brought here for safety. Not sure what freedoms have been lost .. But diddums to those that see those masks as a sign of oppression... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Is it seriously your contention that covid will kill all, or even the majority, of future customers of the UK economy? That would amount to millions of deaths, and the mortality rate indicates no such possibility. Our freedoms are more precious than most people realise, except when the loss of those freedoms becomes obvious. Luckily, I won't be around to have to fight to regain those freedoms, but I do not envy those who will have to...my children.your children, and all our grandchildren. " No, I don't think it will kill them all, but it could potentially kill a lot, especially as we don't know how long you are immune for at the moment. You could potentially end up with a circle of reinfection for those that don't die, and those that don't, still have a chance of developing lifelong issues as a result. You have already pointed out that you have no scientific basis for your previous statement, whereas there is already a fair bit of scientific evidence that this is a serious disease that must be taken seriously. "Freedom" is not unlimited, nor is, to coin a phrase from some friends of mine in the US "freedom isn't free". Freedom comes with responsibility, and in this case, it is not much to ask people to adjust their lifestyle and to do simple things like cover their face with a mask to try to prevent the spread. We will find solutions to enable more things to be done and for people to have greater liberty, but for now, doing nothing and carrying on like normal isn't the sensible thing to do. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NEC Nightingale hospital currently being dismantled and thrown in a skip (video of the workers on Twitter). It cost £36 million of OUR money to build and is costing another £7 million to dismantle. Meanwhile the propaganda machine keeps spouting rubbish about a 'second wave'. If they really believed in that they wouldn't be skipping it would they? Wake up. Wouldn't you prefer we had excess space for patients than nothing enough? If they hadn't got space people would bitch that they hadn't built more hospitals. They can't win. But there are always some people who "know" better than the rest of us.
It boggles my mind, even the good decisions the government have made get ripped to shreds by people.
People have absolutely no concept of finance on a country scale
36 million in UK spending terms is like the average person leaving a centimeter of beer at the bottom of their glass and walking away .. peanuts
Even if it was a larger amount of money, it still would have been worth it for the peace of mind.
It didn’t provide peace of mind for me.... my thoughts at the time where as happened.... a waste of money! It isn’t hindsight it’s what I said at the time !
So at the time when ICU's around the country were filling up and many more people were dying, you thought it was a waste of money to have more beds available for seriously ill people?
When you put it like that, yes absolutely, get the beds ready....unless .... unless there were ICUs other wards in hospitals which were clearly undersubscribed.... that’s what I saw when I watched the nurses dancing, it’s what I saw when broadcasts from ICUs with rows of empty beds were on tv it’s what I heard when I spoke to nurses working in local hospitals oh and when I reviewed figures online ( it’s a long time ago I can’t remember the source but it wasn’t Karen off of facepage!) So, while I appreciate I don’t have the vision of Nostradamus, I put two and two together and managed four. For me it was clear then, I stated it to family and friends, so please don’t attempt to deny me the reasoning and foresight I showed.
You mean other wards that weren't equipped for life support? You mean the nurses who were every single day risking theirs and their families lives, those nurses that needed a quick bit of relief? I don't think they should have been dancing at work but I don't begrudge them needing abit of downtime to do something silly that probably cheered up some of the patients. This magical foresight you seem to have, could you have not warned us what was going to happen before covid hit our country? The simple fact is, NOBODY knew what was going to happen so over preparing was sensible, everyone has been so quick to condemn our government for not being prepared with enough PPE, but when they do over prepare, they are told they are wasting money. It's almost like people think we have some all knowing leader that can see into the future. "Yes I mean ICU wards Yes I mean other wards .... which were not equipped (possibly) ... though maybe equipping a non ICU ward to be an ICU ward would have extended provision without building new wards from scratch? Yes I mean those wards where nurses where dancing which were largely empty! I don’t know why the begrudging comment it seems you are more begrudging in that than me. It’s not magic.... it’s putting two and two together and getting four! .... consider what you see, hear and come up with your own thoughts! There’s no sorcery in that. No I didn’t know what would happen, but when the government were saying we were at the peak, the government were still building these extra resources. I quandaried ‘if we are at the peak and the ICUs aren’t full... who’s going to need them?’ As far as preparedness.... the government is full of people who are paid to ensure the country is prepared, they aren’t volunteers that is their job. For most people, who are ill prepared and underachieve in their chosen profession, it would mean they were no longer employed! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NEC Nightingale hospital currently being dismantled and thrown in a skip (video of the workers on Twitter). It cost £36 million of OUR money to build and is costing another £7 million to dismantle. Meanwhile the propaganda machine keeps spouting rubbish about a 'second wave'. If they really believed in that they wouldn't be skipping it would they? Wake up. Wouldn't you prefer we had excess space for patients than nothing enough? If they hadn't got space people would bitch that they hadn't built more hospitals. They can't win. But there are always some people who "know" better than the rest of us.
It boggles my mind, even the good decisions the government have made get ripped to shreds by people.
People have absolutely no concept of finance on a country scale
36 million in UK spending terms is like the average person leaving a centimeter of beer at the bottom of their glass and walking away .. peanuts
Even if it was a larger amount of money, it still would have been worth it for the peace of mind.
It didn’t provide peace of mind for me.... my thoughts at the time where as happened.... a waste of money! It isn’t hindsight it’s what I said at the time !
So at the time when ICU's around the country were filling up and many more people were dying, you thought it was a waste of money to have more beds available for seriously ill people?
When you put it like that, yes absolutely, get the beds ready....unless .... unless there were ICUs other wards in hospitals which were clearly undersubscribed.... that’s what I saw when I watched the nurses dancing, it’s what I saw when broadcasts from ICUs with rows of empty beds were on tv it’s what I heard when I spoke to nurses working in local hospitals oh and when I reviewed figures online ( it’s a long time ago I can’t remember the source but it wasn’t Karen off of facepage!) So, while I appreciate I don’t have the vision of Nostradamus, I put two and two together and managed four. For me it was clear then, I stated it to family and friends, so please don’t attempt to deny me the reasoning and foresight I showed.
Do you get out much lol.....?"Have no idea what that response is supposed to mean? I didn’t get out much at the time .... I was furloughed and in lockdown! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Is it seriously your contention that covid will kill all, or even the majority, of future customers of the UK economy? That would amount to millions of deaths, and the mortality rate indicates no such possibility. Our freedoms are more precious than most people realise, except when the loss of those freedoms becomes obvious. Luckily, I won't be around to have to fight to regain those freedoms, but I do not envy those who will have to...my children.your children, and all our grandchildren. No, I don't think it will kill them all, but it could potentially kill a lot, especially as we don't know how long you are immune for at the moment. You could potentially end up with a circle of reinfection for those that don't die, and those that don't, still have a chance of developing lifelong issues as a result. You have already pointed out that you have no scientific basis for your previous statement, whereas there is already a fair bit of scientific evidence that this is a serious disease that must be taken seriously. "Freedom" is not unlimited, nor is, to coin a phrase from some friends of mine in the US "freedom isn't free". Freedom comes with responsibility, and in this case, it is not much to ask people to adjust their lifestyle and to do simple things like cover their face with a mask to try to prevent the spread. We will find solutions to enable more things to be done and for people to have greater liberty, but for now, doing nothing and carrying on like normal isn't the sensible thing to do." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Indeed.... Just watch Professor Sturgeon on Television berating the people of Aberdeen for having the temerity to go out for a few drinks. No doubt she thinks it's the English people that live and work there in the oil industries fault LOL " Piss off FFS. At least we have an FM who does the job unlike bojo the clown who won't work weekends. Won't speak to reporters. Only likes to go on photo ops or visit his pal to demand he takes top job while sacking the person voted in. Did you hear NS blame England or any English people? Naw neither did I but don't let that get in the way of your agenda eh lol. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Is it seriously your contention that covid will kill all, or even the majority, of future customers of the UK economy? That would amount to millions of deaths, and the mortality rate indicates no such possibility. Our freedoms are more precious than most people realise, except when the loss of those freedoms becomes obvious. Luckily, I won't be around to have to fight to regain those freedoms, but I do not envy those who will have to...my children.your children, and all our grandchildren. Well the last time I checked, you can get in your car and travel anywhere in the UK, you can go on a pubcrawl, you can go shopping without a mask, you can protest on the streets of London in the middle of a pandemic, you can be rescued in the middle of the channel and be brought here for safety. Not sure what freedoms have been lost .. But diddums to those that see those masks as a sign of oppression... " As ever with online discourse people just love to make any discussion binary when life is almost always about shades of grey. Just to pick up on some main themes here, my views for what they are worth - the government did well to set up Nightingales but at the same time were late with lockdown, have spent £££ on crap gear promoted by their mates, and are going to make an unholy mess of the economy by having a cliff edge end to the furlough scheme. - we don’t live in a totalitarian state and the virus wasn’t started by them to achieve this. But they are centralising more power to unelected beaurocrats - one in particular. in that sense they are taking full advantage of the situation to push through their (his) agenda. It’s the start of a slide into that kind of 1984 world. I think if people could take a more nuanced view instead of a partisan/binary view of every single issue ((which of course Cummings/Johnson love to encourage) then that would be helpful. Immediately sorting a view on any given subject and then ascribing the holder of that view as being in one camp or another, is the main problem at the moment. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NEC Nightingale hospital currently being dismantled and thrown in a skip (video of the workers on Twitter). It cost £36 million of OUR money to build and is costing another £7 million to dismantle. Meanwhile the propaganda machine keeps spouting rubbish about a 'second wave'. If they really believed in that they wouldn't be skipping it would they? Wake up. Wouldn't you prefer we had excess space for patients than nothing enough? If they hadn't got space people would bitch that they hadn't built more hospitals. They can't win. But there are always some people who "know" better than the rest of us.
It boggles my mind, even the good decisions the government have made get ripped to shreds by people.
People have absolutely no concept of finance on a country scale
36 million in UK spending terms is like the average person leaving a centimeter of beer at the bottom of their glass and walking away .. peanuts
Even if it was a larger amount of money, it still would have been worth it for the peace of mind.
It didn’t provide peace of mind for me.... my thoughts at the time where as happened.... a waste of money! It isn’t hindsight it’s what I said at the time !
So at the time when ICU's around the country were filling up and many more people were dying, you thought it was a waste of money to have more beds available for seriously ill people?
When you put it like that, yes absolutely, get the beds ready....unless .... unless there were ICUs other wards in hospitals which were clearly undersubscribed.... that’s what I saw when I watched the nurses dancing, it’s what I saw when broadcasts from ICUs with rows of empty beds were on tv it’s what I heard when I spoke to nurses working in local hospitals oh and when I reviewed figures online ( it’s a long time ago I can’t remember the source but it wasn’t Karen off of facepage!) So, while I appreciate I don’t have the vision of Nostradamus, I put two and two together and managed four. For me it was clear then, I stated it to family and friends, so please don’t attempt to deny me the reasoning and foresight I showed.
You mean other wards that weren't equipped for life support? You mean the nurses who were every single day risking theirs and their families lives, those nurses that needed a quick bit of relief? I don't think they should have been dancing at work but I don't begrudge them needing abit of downtime to do something silly that probably cheered up some of the patients. This magical foresight you seem to have, could you have not warned us what was going to happen before covid hit our country? The simple fact is, NOBODY knew what was going to happen so over preparing was sensible, everyone has been so quick to condemn our government for not being prepared with enough PPE, but when they do over prepare, they are told they are wasting money. It's almost like people think we have some all knowing leader that can see into the future.
Yes I mean ICU wards
Yes I mean other wards .... which were not equipped (possibly) ... though maybe equipping a non ICU ward to be an ICU ward would have extended provision without building new wards from scratch?
Yes I mean those wards where nurses where dancing which were largely empty! I don’t know why the begrudging comment it seems you are more begrudging in that than me.
It’s not magic.... it’s putting two and two together and getting four! .... consider what you see, hear and come up with your own thoughts! There’s no sorcery in that.
No I didn’t know what would happen, but when the government were saying we were at the peak, the government were still building these extra resources. I quandaried ‘if we are at the peak and the ICUs aren’t full... who’s going to need them?’
As far as preparedness.... the government is full of people who are paid to ensure the country is prepared, they aren’t volunteers that is their job. For most people, who are ill prepared and underachieve in their chosen profession, it would mean they were no longer employed! "Maybe, since you knew exactly what was going to happen, you should have been advising the government, let me know when you go into politics, you'll get my vote, we need a fortune teller to let us know exactly whats going to happen and when so we don't make such a foolish mistake building too many hospitals again. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NEC Nightingale hospital currently being dismantled and thrown in a skip (video of the workers on Twitter). It cost £36 million of OUR money to build and is costing another £7 million to dismantle. Meanwhile the propaganda machine keeps spouting rubbish about a 'second wave'. If they really believed in that they wouldn't be skipping it would they? Wake up." The nightingale hospital was a propaganda piece of building anyway they could never staff it!! They pulling it down because it has done its job!! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Well yesterday the Government published an update entitled "Direct and Indirect Impacts of COVID-19 on Excess Deaths and Morbidity". This update was presented to SAGE on July 23rd, but it was only published yesterday. The headline news is that the lockdown killed two people for every three that died of COVID-19 by the beginning of May. However, when you take into account the age of those who died from coronavirus, as well as their underlying health conditions, the loss of life as measured in Quality Adjusted Life Years, or Qalys, for those who died as a result of the lockdown was greater than it was for those who died of COVID-19. This is how the authors of the report put it: The direct COVID-19 deaths account for the majority of all excess deaths. However, when morbidity is taken into account, the estimates for the health impacts from a lockdown and lockdown induced recession are greater in terms of QALYs than the direct COVID-19 deaths. Much of the health impact, particularly in terms of morbidity, will be felt long after the pandemic is assumed to last… According to Sarah Knapton, the Science Editor of the Telegraph: The estimates show that 16,000 people had died through missed medical care by May 1st, while coronavirus killed 25,000 in the same period. The figures include 6,000 people who did not attend A&E at the height of lockdown because of fears they might catch the virus and the feeling they should remain at home because of the “Stay Home, Protect the NHS, Save Lives” message. Likewise, 10,000 people are thought to have died in care homes due to early discharge from hospital and not being able to access critical care. The article includes some choice quotes from the President of the Royal Society of Surgeons: Professor Neil Mortensen, the President of the Royal College of Surgeons of England, warned that the health service “must never again be a coronavirus-only service”. “We have to deal first with the most clinically urgent patients, and then as soon as possible with those who have been waiting the longest,” he said. “The period through August and September is vitally important in making progress before routine winter pressures emerge.” Bearing in mind that the Covid-19 death figures are 'dodgy' to say the least (They don't differentiate between those who died 'of Covid19' from those who died 'with Covid19 - two very different things) and that we have not even started to see the deaths that will come as a result of the economic catastrophe (not to mention the mental health issues) Lockdown clearly is responsible for more deaths than the virus. It really is ludicrous. " I don’t get what you are saying?? So it is bad because we locked down? Or we didn’t lockdown early enough and hard enough or close all borders etc.. I think it should be the latter. If you look at countries that have done well with Covid NZ South Korea Australia those are the examples. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NEC Nightingale hospital currently being dismantled and thrown in a skip (video of the workers on Twitter). It cost £36 million of OUR money to build and is costing another £7 million to dismantle. Meanwhile the propaganda machine keeps spouting rubbish about a 'second wave'. If they really believed in that they wouldn't be skipping it would they? Wake up. Wouldn't you prefer we had excess space for patients than nothing enough? If they hadn't got space people would bitch that they hadn't built more hospitals. They can't win. But there are always some people who "know" better than the rest of us.
It boggles my mind, even the good decisions the government have made get ripped to shreds by people.
People have absolutely no concept of finance on a country scale
36 million in UK spending terms is like the average person leaving a centimeter of beer at the bottom of their glass and walking away .. peanuts
Even if it was a larger amount of money, it still would have been worth it for the peace of mind.
It didn’t provide peace of mind for me.... my thoughts at the time where as happened.... a waste of money! It isn’t hindsight it’s what I said at the time !
So at the time when ICU's around the country were filling up and many more people were dying, you thought it was a waste of money to have more beds available for seriously ill people?
When you put it like that, yes absolutely, get the beds ready....unless .... unless there were ICUs other wards in hospitals which were clearly undersubscribed.... that’s what I saw when I watched the nurses dancing, it’s what I saw when broadcasts from ICUs with rows of empty beds were on tv it’s what I heard when I spoke to nurses working in local hospitals oh and when I reviewed figures online ( it’s a long time ago I can’t remember the source but it wasn’t Karen off of facepage!) So, while I appreciate I don’t have the vision of Nostradamus, I put two and two together and managed four. For me it was clear then, I stated it to family and friends, so please don’t attempt to deny me the reasoning and foresight I showed.
You mean other wards that weren't equipped for life support? You mean the nurses who were every single day risking theirs and their families lives, those nurses that needed a quick bit of relief? I don't think they should have been dancing at work but I don't begrudge them needing abit of downtime to do something silly that probably cheered up some of the patients. This magical foresight you seem to have, could you have not warned us what was going to happen before covid hit our country? The simple fact is, NOBODY knew what was going to happen so over preparing was sensible, everyone has been so quick to condemn our government for not being prepared with enough PPE, but when they do over prepare, they are told they are wasting money. It's almost like people think we have some all knowing leader that can see into the future.
Yes I mean ICU wards
Yes I mean other wards .... which were not equipped (possibly) ... though maybe equipping a non ICU ward to be an ICU ward would have extended provision without building new wards from scratch?
Yes I mean those wards where nurses where dancing which were largely empty! I don’t know why the begrudging comment it seems you are more begrudging in that than me.
It’s not magic.... it’s putting two and two together and getting four! .... consider what you see, hear and come up with your own thoughts! There’s no sorcery in that.
No I didn’t know what would happen, but when the government were saying we were at the peak, the government were still building these extra resources. I quandaried ‘if we are at the peak and the ICUs aren’t full... who’s going to need them?’
As far as preparedness.... the government is full of people who are paid to ensure the country is prepared, they aren’t volunteers that is their job. For most people, who are ill prepared and underachieve in their chosen profession, it would mean they were no longer employed!
Maybe, since you knew exactly what was going to happen, you should have been advising the government, let me know when you go into politics, you'll get my vote, we need a fortune teller to let us know exactly whats going to happen and when so we don't make such a foolish mistake building too many hospitals again. "I’ll try again “we’re at the peak”.... ICUs weren’t full, the nightingales were being built! Just slow down and think that through... the people charged with advising us were saying we’ve peaked but start/continue building ! Hearing what the government was saying I took it to mean we didn’t need any extra.... while they build extra! I think ‘why are you building extra, there’s no need?, you’re telling us there’s no need, they won’t be used’. Roll on a month or three they were not used... that’s not witchcraft, fortune telling or sooth-saying it’s at odds with rational thinking! If you can explain where my observations become trickery or magical please do! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I’ll try again “we’re at the peak”.... ICUs weren’t full, the nightingales were being built! " When it was at the peak some ICUs were full and also some covid ICUs were full, i have friends who worked in them. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I’ll try again “we’re at the peak”.... ICUs weren’t full, the nightingales were being built! When it was at the peak some ICUs were full and also some covid ICUs were full, i have friends who worked in them." We must not question the all knowing one. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I’ll try again “we’re at the peak”.... ICUs weren’t full, the nightingales were being built! When it was at the peak some ICUs were full and also some covid ICUs were full, i have friends who worked in them. We must not question the all knowing one. " I'm sure they will be back saying I'm wrong lol | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I’ll try again “we’re at the peak”.... ICUs weren’t full, the nightingales were being built! When it was at the peak some ICUs were full and also some covid ICUs were full, i have friends who worked in them." Some ! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I’ll try again “we’re at the peak”.... ICUs weren’t full, the nightingales were being built! When it was at the peak some ICUs were full and also some covid ICUs were full, i have friends who worked in them. We must not question the all knowing one. I'm sure they will be back saying I'm wrong lol" I didn’t say you were wrong I didn’t say any one icu wasn’t full. But hey why you’ve joined in ... if between you you could pop up to the question I asked previously and put some reasoning behind those actions I’d be most grateful | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I’ll try again “we’re at the peak”.... ICUs weren’t full, the nightingales were being built! When it was at the peak some ICUs were full and also some covid ICUs were full, i have friends who worked in them. Some ! " During the peak time and around that time in general the ICUs and covid ICUs my friends worked in were full. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’ll try again “we’re at the peak”.... ICUs weren’t full, the nightingales were being built! Just slow down and think that through... the people charged with advising us were saying we’ve peaked but start/continue building ! Hearing what the government was saying I took it to mean we didn’t need any extra.... while they build extra! I think ‘why are you building extra, there’s no need?, you’re telling us there’s no need, they won’t be used’. Roll on a month or three they were not used... that’s not witchcraft, fortune telling or sooth-saying it’s at odds with rational thinking! If you can explain where my observations become trickery or magical please do! " the Nightingale’s began construction prior to our peak, there was plenty of ceiling above where our peak eventually halted, nobody knew where that peak would be. ICU’s where perilously close to patient capacity but more importantly most city ICU’s where actually having to run their oxygen framework in the red. Most CPAP patients where on reduced oxygen flow to reduce stress to the system. The Nightingale’s where as much about the buildings capacity as the staff. I don’t think you understand how close we got to disaster, I also think you don’t realise that there has always been one eye on how we would cope come flu season when hospitals historically are at 85% capacity to begin with. If we do have a so called second spike then we may just see the Nightingale’s brought out of retirement with the lessons we have learned implemented. These hindsight statements are utter bollox, the greatest hurdle all of us has faced is the simple fact ‘we just didn’t and still don’t know’ the answers to many questions. Apply that to treatment, spread, capacity, infection rate or whatever. We have had to learn along the timeline and adapt. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’ll try again “we’re at the peak”.... ICUs weren’t full, the nightingales were being built! Just slow down and think that through... the people charged with advising us were saying we’ve peaked but start/continue building ! Hearing what the government was saying I took it to mean we didn’t need any extra.... while they build extra! I think ‘why are you building extra, there’s no need?, you’re telling us there’s no need, they won’t be used’. Roll on a month or three they were not used... that’s not witchcraft, fortune telling or sooth-saying it’s at odds with rational thinking! If you can explain where my observations become trickery or magical please do! the Nightingale’s began construction prior to our peak, there was plenty of ceiling above where our peak eventually halted, nobody knew where that peak would be. ICU’s where perilously close to patient capacity but more importantly most city ICU’s where actually having to run their oxygen framework in the red. Most CPAP patients where on reduced oxygen flow to reduce stress to the system. The Nightingale’s where as much about the buildings capacity as the staff. I don’t think you understand how close we got to disaster, I also think you don’t realise that there has always been one eye on how we would cope come flu season when hospitals historically are at 85% capacity to begin with. If we do have a so called second spike then we may just see the Nightingale’s brought out of retirement with the lessons we have learned implemented. These hindsight statements are utter bollox, the greatest hurdle all of us has faced is the simple fact ‘we just didn’t and still don’t know’ the answers to many questions. Apply that to treatment, spread, capacity, infection rate or whatever. We have had to learn along the timeline and adapt. " Totally agree! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I’ll try again “we’re at the peak”.... ICUs weren’t full, the nightingales were being built! When it was at the peak some ICUs were full and also some covid ICUs were full, i have friends who worked in them. Some ! " What qualifies you to give any insight into what the view from inside ICU’s was like? You seem to be a far cry away from the reality I and many others lived and worked through. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I’ll try again “we’re at the peak”.... ICUs weren’t full, the nightingales were being built! When it was at the peak some ICUs were full and also some covid ICUs were full, i have friends who worked in them. Some ! What qualifies you to give any insight into what the view from inside ICU’s was like? You seem to be a far cry away from the reality I and many others lived and worked through." I don’t need to have qualifications to identify the difference in numbers..... for instance if there are 50 ICU beds and 20 ICU patients I can recognise the difference .... sorry that was a maths GCSE I am qualified! The internal view .... I don’t have qualifications for that .... is that needed? Oh .... you aren’t far.... while you were full and struggling your colleagues in greater Manchester were pretty quiet ... to quote “never had so little to do!... and on overtime!” | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I’ll try again “we’re at the peak”.... ICUs weren’t full, the nightingales were being built! Just slow down and think that through... the people charged with advising us were saying we’ve peaked but start/continue building ! Hearing what the government was saying I took it to mean we didn’t need any extra.... while they build extra! I think ‘why are you building extra, there’s no need?, you’re telling us there’s no need, they won’t be used’. Roll on a month or three they were not used... that’s not witchcraft, fortune telling or sooth-saying it’s at odds with rational thinking! If you can explain where my observations become trickery or magical please do! the Nightingale’s began construction prior to our peak, there was plenty of ceiling above where our peak eventually halted, nobody knew where that peak would be. ICU’s where perilously close to patient capacity but more importantly most city ICU’s where actually having to run their oxygen framework in the red. Most CPAP patients where on reduced oxygen flow to reduce stress to the system. The Nightingale’s where as much about the buildings capacity as the staff. I don’t think you understand how close we got to disaster, I also think you don’t realise that there has always been one eye on how we would cope come flu season when hospitals historically are at 85% capacity to begin with. If we do have a so called second spike then we may just see the Nightingale’s brought out of retirement with the lessons we have learned implemented. These hindsight statements are utter bollox, the greatest hurdle all of us has faced is the simple fact ‘we just didn’t and still don’t know’ the answers to many questions. Apply that to treatment, spread, capacity, infection rate or whatever. We have had to learn along the timeline and adapt. " The CPAP patients on reduced airflow .... oxygen framework in red ? Go on explain that to the layman ..... I’ll jump ahead though hope you don’t mind.... what was it that was missing? Oxygen? Are you seriously saying there wasn’t enough oxygen? (Sorry if that wasn’t the case!) if that’s the case I know of a business within 15 miles of you that was uninterrupted and uses oxygen on a massive scale where the demands of a hospital would pale into insignificance. The didn’t know and still don’t..... well why take down the hospitals that were built. FFS if you can not identify anything wrong here I despair! You aren’t learning along the timeline and adapting! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The CPAP patients on reduced airflow .... oxygen framework in red ? Go on explain that to the layman ..... I’ll jump ahead though hope you don’t mind.... what was it that was missing? Oxygen? Are you seriously saying there wasn’t enough oxygen? (Sorry if that wasn’t the case!) if that’s the case I know of a business within 15 miles of you that was uninterrupted and uses oxygen on a massive scale where the demands of a hospital would pale into insignificance. The didn’t know and still don’t..... well why take down the hospitals that were built. FFS if you can not identify anything wrong here I despair! You aren’t learning along the timeline and adapting! " A hospital has an oxygen supply. think of it as your central heating and radiators in your house. The more radiators you have, the bigger the stress or demands on the boiler. Watch the two part “Hospital Covid special” on iplayer for clear insight. As you rightly state, you can bring as many oxygen trucks to a hospital as you like per day, no issue. But, there’s a limit to the amount you can draw from the system at the same time. The more beds whether CPAP or Ventilated the larger the strain. To give perspective, most trusts at the two months of peak infection used oxygen at a level that would usually have lasted the entire year. Wards that would rarely draw from the system where suddenly working with all their taps open. For many, the oxygen flow/demand reached or was beyond the advised “safe level” their system allowed and the greatest concern for all was that system failing. there’s no backup to it beyond oxygen bottles at bedsides should it fail completely. As for the NEC being dismantled, I believe this is mainly due to the original contract for use of the space expiring. Birmingham also had the greatest shortfall of staff therefore it would seem pointless to continue to have it hibernated. Hope that gives clarity x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The CPAP patients on reduced airflow .... oxygen framework in red ? Go on explain that to the layman ..... I’ll jump ahead though hope you don’t mind.... what was it that was missing? Oxygen? Are you seriously saying there wasn’t enough oxygen? (Sorry if that wasn’t the case!) if that’s the case I know of a business within 15 miles of you that was uninterrupted and uses oxygen on a massive scale where the demands of a hospital would pale into insignificance. The didn’t know and still don’t..... well why take down the hospitals that were built. FFS if you can not identify anything wrong here I despair! You aren’t learning along the timeline and adapting! A hospital has an oxygen supply. think of it as your central heating and radiators in your house. The more radiators you have, the bigger the stress or demands on the boiler. Watch the two part “Hospital Covid special” on iplayer for clear insight. As you rightly state, you can bring as many oxygen trucks to a hospital as you like per day, no issue. But, there’s a limit to the amount you can draw from the system at the same time. The more beds whether CPAP or Ventilated the larger the strain. To give perspective, most trusts at the two months of peak infection used oxygen at a level that would usually have lasted the entire year. Wards that would rarely draw from the system where suddenly working with all their taps open. For many, the oxygen flow/demand reached or was beyond the advised “safe level” their system allowed and the greatest concern for all was that system failing. there’s no backup to it beyond oxygen bottles at bedsides should it fail completely. As for the NEC being dismantled, I believe this is mainly due to the original contract for use of the space expiring. Birmingham also had the greatest shortfall of staff therefore it would seem pointless to continue to have it hibernated. Hope that gives clarity x " It does thank you! In private if you like could you let me know the hospital you work at so I can understand better the situation there? On the NEC .... just re read that .... do it a few times and you may find some issues... some plain as the nose on your face, fundamental issues! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh .... you aren’t far.... while you were full and struggling your colleagues in greater Manchester were pretty quiet ... to quote “never had so little to do!... and on overtime!” " I’d love to know where these colleagues where... Greater Manchester was the only place to fully use their Nightingale, over a week they had over 180 patients transferred to reduce the ICU capacities in the trusts to back under 85%. Our trusts have dealt with 2,000 deaths, there’s over 500 additional unconfirmed deaths which are covid related. Our ICU ratio is still at 1:3 compared to the advised 1 nurse to 1 patient and we are still dealing with death tally’s of 5,6,8 patients a day last week if you read your local news. I’m glad you can have such a clear opinion from your armchair though, if you wish to believe those working with covid patients have been kicking back and enjoying free overtime perhaps come join the fun. We are still in dire need porters, cleaners and none clinical help... 38 dead staff across the trusts and ambulance service, 100’s still currently off sick or taken off frontline duty due to the affects of suffering from the virus paints a slightly different perspective tbh. Seriously, you should be ashamed even suggesting that. I don’t really give a crap about your personal view of myself but the figures are out there plainly for people to see, our city is under special measures and you have the audacity to suggest everyone is kicking back and milking cash... total joke. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"In private if you like could you let me know the hospital you work at so I can understand better the situation there? " See your inbox, feel free to reply with your own credentials if you wish | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Oh .... you aren’t far.... while you were full and struggling your colleagues in greater Manchester were pretty quiet ... to quote “never had so little to do!... and on overtime!” I’d love to know where these colleagues where... Greater Manchester was the only place to fully use their Nightingale, over a week they had over 180 patients transferred to reduce the ICU capacities in the trusts to back under 85%. Our trusts have dealt with 2,000 deaths, there’s over 500 additional unconfirmed deaths which are covid related. Our ICU ratio is still at 1:3 compared to the advised 1 nurse to 1 patient and we are still dealing with death tally’s of 5,6,8 patients a day last week if you read your local news. I’m glad you can have such a clear opinion from your armchair though, if you wish to believe those working with covid patients have been kicking back and enjoying free overtime perhaps come join the fun. We are still in dire need porters, cleaners and none clinical help... 38 dead staff across the trusts and ambulance service, 100’s still currently off sick or taken off frontline duty due to the affects of suffering from the virus paints a slightly different perspective tbh. Seriously, you should be ashamed even suggesting that. I don’t really give a crap about your personal view of myself but the figures are out there plainly for people to see, our city is under special measures and you have the audacity to suggest everyone is kicking back and milking cash... total joke." Have no idea where you got those assumptions of my opinions from or how you have put together what I’ve said and asked into that outburst. Ashamed? Why? You respond with “seriously, you should be ashamed even suggesting that” but I don’t know what I’ve suggested? If it’s that NHS staff I know have stated to me they’ve never been so quiet and couldn’t understand why they were on overtime.... sorry it was them ... I’m merely stating what was said to me. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"In private if you like could you let me know the hospital you work at so I can understand better the situation there? See your inbox, feel free to reply with your own credentials if you wish" Got it .... as I said in reply... Though still not knowing the hospital means it’s hard to review the demand. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
E | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Have no idea where you got those assumptions of my opinions from or how you have put together what I’ve said and asked into that outburst. Ashamed? Why? You respond with “seriously, you should be ashamed even suggesting that” but I don’t know what I’ve suggested? If it’s that NHS staff I know have stated to me they’ve never been so quiet and couldn’t understand why they were on overtime.... sorry it was them ... I’m merely stating what was said to me. " And what is it they do in the NHS? are they working in the ICU’s in Manchester because if they are I guarantee you they aren’t saying that. Everyone of us has a tally we’ve had to live with, ‘debriefs’ the occasion use NHS tool to help staff guard against the psychological issues have been nearly a daily occurrence. You should be ashamed because in promoting a work of fiction you massively discredit those doing the work. I doubt you would say it to the families of those staff who have died as patients in their own ICU’s. People earning as little as £16 an hour in that environment don’t need that kind of judgement from you from the comfort of your living room. I’ve mentioned it a few times in these forums, as frontline workers we’ve suffered over 100 more fatalities than the British army did in its entire invasion and occupation of Afghanistan. I don’t think you’d go tell a Para about the cakewalk he had out there so perhaps extend the same sensitivity to those that do have an insight into what’s happened. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Does make me laugh when someone complains that a facility built to deal with thousands of deaths wasn't used.
E"Good post. Some people are barking mad on here. Find a solution and they will find a problem... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Have no idea where you got those assumptions of my opinions from or how you have put together what I’ve said and asked into that outburst. Ashamed? Why? You respond with “seriously, you should be ashamed even suggesting that” but I don’t know what I’ve suggested? If it’s that NHS staff I know have stated to me they’ve never been so quiet and couldn’t understand why they were on overtime.... sorry it was them ... I’m merely stating what was said to me. And what is it they do in the NHS? are they working in the ICU’s in Manchester because if they are I guarantee you they aren’t saying that. Everyone of us has a tally we’ve had to live with, ‘debriefs’ the occasion use NHS tool to help staff guard against the psychological issues have been nearly a daily occurrence. You should be ashamed because in promoting a work of fiction you massively discredit those doing the work. I doubt you would say it to the families of those staff who have died as patients in their own ICU’s. People earning as little as £16 an hour in that environment don’t need that kind of judgement from you from the comfort of your living room. I’ve mentioned it a few times in these forums, as frontline workers we’ve suffered over 100 more fatalities than the British army did in its entire invasion and occupation of Afghanistan. I don’t think you’d go tell a Para about the cakewalk he had out there so perhaps extend the same sensitivity to those that do have an insight into what’s happened." You clearly have your point to make though it bears little relevance to anything ive said | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Does make me laugh when someone complains that a facility built to deal with thousands of deaths wasn't used.
E"I know of a facility thats proposed use was treating the sick... whats this facility you refer to ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"serious question here... IF they are so concerned about a 'second wave' and possibly more severe than the 1st apparently then why are they dismantling the NEC Nightingale? " Exactly lol, and it’s that deadly that over 99% of the population will have no adverse effects if caught and they have been caught inflating the figures Think that’s the same each year with flu, got a jab for that and still it takes thousands of lives each year Treatment stopped for cancer patients, clearly their life doesn’t count | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"You clearly have your point to make though it bears little relevance to anything ive said " Alternatively, everything you’ve said seems to have little relevance. As discussed in private to position yourself and your posts as quite belittling and dumbing down of the situation is in mine and perhaps others views quite poor form. We are agreed on my trusts ICU having a confirmed covid death toll of 4 people per day for a solid 6 month period. That’s of course on top of every other death we see as standard. Of course it doesn’t work like that in reality, at its peak my unit saw far greater numbers than at the start and current position of the curve. You’ve not experienced that reality, fair enough... to question it though, sorry I feel that shows a fairly poor lack of compassion. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"serious question here... IF they are so concerned about a 'second wave' and possibly more severe than the 1st apparently then why are they dismantling the NEC Nightingale? Exactly lol, and it’s that deadly that over 99% of the population will have no adverse effects if caught and they have been caught inflating the figures Think that’s the same each year with flu, got a jab for that and still it takes thousands of lives each year Treatment stopped for cancer patients, clearly their life doesn’t count" Treatment did not stop for cancer patients, why do people keep saying this? It's totally untrue. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"serious question here... IF they are so concerned about a 'second wave' and possibly more severe than the 1st apparently then why are they dismantling the NEC Nightingale? Exactly lol, and it’s that deadly that over 99% of the population will have no adverse effects if caught and they have been caught inflating the figures Think that’s the same each year with flu, got a jab for that and still it takes thousands of lives each year Treatment stopped for cancer patients, clearly their life doesn’t count Treatment did not stop for cancer patients, why do people keep saying this? It's totally untrue. " Well down on what it was last year | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"serious question here... IF they are so concerned about a 'second wave' and possibly more severe than the 1st apparently then why are they dismantling the NEC Nightingale? Exactly lol, and it’s that deadly that over 99% of the population will have no adverse effects if caught and they have been caught inflating the figures Think that’s the same each year with flu, got a jab for that and still it takes thousands of lives each year Treatment stopped for cancer patients, clearly their life doesn’t count Treatment did not stop for cancer patients, why do people keep saying this? It's totally untrue. Well down on what it was last year" That may be but it most certainly did not stop. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Treatment did not stop for cancer patients, why do people keep saying this? It's totally untrue. " Because some neither understand the ramifications certain choices would have had and they struggle to see beyond the individual short term impact covid has had on their lives. They published figures for excess deaths today unrelated to covid, 16,000 in total. It’s broken down as approximately 10,000 of which are a foreshortening on life in the care sector and 6,000 due to missed diagnosis due to avoiding ED’s. There’s not a healthcare worker that isn’t saddened by that. It is however a far cry from the figures many claim would far exceed the deaths caused by covid. There’s a complete lack of understanding that maintaining full service at the height of the pandemic would likely have increased both those figures but also the covid deaths as well. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Does make me laugh when someone complains that a facility built to deal with thousands of deaths wasn't used.
E
Good post. Some people are barking mad on here. Find a solution and they will find a problem..." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"serious question here... IF they are so concerned about a 'second wave' and possibly more severe than the 1st apparently then why are they dismantling the NEC Nightingale? Exactly lol, and it’s that deadly that over 99% of the population will have no adverse effects if caught and they have been caught inflating the figures Think that’s the same each year with flu, got a jab for that and still it takes thousands of lives each year Treatment stopped for cancer patients, clearly their life doesn’t count Treatment did not stop for cancer patients, why do people keep saying this? It's totally untrue. " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Treatment did not stop for cancer patients, why do people keep saying this? It's totally untrue. Because some neither understand the ramifications certain choices would have had and they struggle to see beyond the individual short term impact covid has had on their lives. They published figures for excess deaths today unrelated to covid, 16,000 in total. It’s broken down as approximately 10,000 of which are a foreshortening on life in the care sector and 6,000 due to missed diagnosis due to avoiding ED’s. There’s not a healthcare worker that isn’t saddened by that. It is however a far cry from the figures many claim would far exceed the deaths caused by covid. There’s a complete lack of understanding that maintaining full service at the height of the pandemic would likely have increased both those figures but also the covid deaths as well." neil (legover) ferguson - the guy whose model for foot and mouth disease was not very accurate? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Treatment did not stop for cancer patients, why do people keep saying this? It's totally untrue. "it stopped enough to condemn thousands to an early death | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Treatment did not stop for cancer patients, why do people keep saying this? It's totally untrue.
it stopped enough to condemn thousands to an early death"Says the man who refuses to even wear a mask to try to save someone's life. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Treatment did not stop for cancer patients, why do people keep saying this? It's totally untrue. " It stopped for me. It stopped for three women in their 40s I know and last month two of them died from breast cancer and one from stomach cancer. Treatment also stopped for the people featured in the Panorama documentary and for thousands of others. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"NEC Nightingale hospital currently being dismantled and thrown in a skip (video of the workers on Twitter). It cost £36 million of OUR money to build and is costing another £7 million to dismantle. Meanwhile the propaganda machine keeps spouting rubbish about a 'second wave'. If they really believed in that they wouldn't be skipping it would they? Wake up. Also, I cannot find any information that this is even true. " Perhaps because it isn't? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"You clearly have your point to make though it bears little relevance to anything ive said Alternatively, everything you’ve said seems to have little relevance. As discussed in private to position yourself and your posts as quite belittling and dumbing down of the situation is in mine and perhaps others views quite poor form. We are agreed on my trusts ICU having a confirmed covid death toll of 4 people per day for a solid 6 month period. That’s of course on top of every other death we see as standard. Of course it doesn’t work like that in reality, at its peak my unit saw far greater numbers than at the start and current position of the curve. You’ve not experienced that reality, fair enough... to question it though, sorry I feel that shows a fairly poor lack of compassion. Your posts Blindly defend a group I didn’t attack. I’m sorry you feel that my posts were belittling and that I was dumbing down.... I stand by my posts and their content. No posts were made to cause upset. We didn’t agree on the figures of 4 people a day for 6 months, you stated that in private. I countered with the information from the nhs.net figures (fully cited in private) showing 4 deaths total, in the trust you are employed by over the period 17th June to 9th of July (I think those were the dates, though it was a relatively recent 3 week or so period) which is extremely at odds with the 5,6,8 people a day you mention. " Well the figures you have cited clearly show a trust total for this pandemic which would give an average of of 4 people a day for 6 months which is a very far cry from people sat around questioning why they are being paid overtime as your posting implied. It’s also a total which is at best the very lowest estimate of covid confirmed deaths, it doesn’t factor in any of our non covid patients or indeed our share of that wonderful 35,000 surplus who you should probably realise feel very real to those who are treating them regardless of how they are classified. As suggested read the Manchester press for that period, understand the reporting mechanism we operate in, understand the figures involved that a shift of 16 staff has to cope with over 12 hours. Strangely a death is a death to me, I don’t only feel emotion at one that’s officially logged as Covid 19. If you can’t understand why a “sat round doing overtime for fun” reads as highly offensive I think we better give up. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Well yesterday the Government published an update entitled "Direct and Indirect Impacts of COVID-19 on Excess Deaths and Morbidity". This update was presented to SAGE on July 23rd, but it was only published yesterday. The headline news is that the lockdown killed two people for every three that died of COVID-19 by the beginning of May. However, when you take into account the age of those who died from coronavirus, as well as their underlying health conditions, the loss of life as measured in Quality Adjusted Life Years, or Qalys, for those who died as a result of the lockdown was greater than it was for those who died of COVID-19. This is how the authors of the report put it: The direct COVID-19 deaths account for the majority of all excess deaths. However, when morbidity is taken into account, the estimates for the health impacts from a lockdown and lockdown induced recession are greater in terms of QALYs than the direct COVID-19 deaths. Much of the health impact, particularly in terms of morbidity, will be felt long after the pandemic is assumed to last… According to Sarah Knapton, the Science Editor of the Telegraph: The estimates show that 16,000 people had died through missed medical care by May 1st, while coronavirus killed 25,000 in the same period. The figures include 6,000 people who did not attend A&E at the height of lockdown because of fears they might catch the virus and the feeling they should remain at home because of the “Stay Home, Protect the NHS, Save Lives” message. Likewise, 10,000 people are thought to have died in care homes due to early discharge from hospital and not being able to access critical care. The article includes some choice quotes from the President of the Royal Society of Surgeons: Professor Neil Mortensen, the President of the Royal College of Surgeons of England, warned that the health service “must never again be a coronavirus-only service”. “We have to deal first with the most clinically urgent patients, and then as soon as possible with those who have been waiting the longest,” he said. “The period through August and September is vitally important in making progress before routine winter pressures emerge.” Bearing in mind that the Covid-19 death figures are 'dodgy' to say the least (They don't differentiate between those who died 'of Covid19' from those who died 'with Covid19 - two very different things) and that we have not even started to see the deaths that will come as a result of the economic catastrophe (not to mention the mental health issues) Lockdown clearly is responsible for more deaths than the virus. It really is ludicrous. " Wel self- evidently there’s are a few things wrong with that - the10k who died of corona in Cate homes was a direct result of a government cock up. They should never have been discharged without a test. - the study seems to compare deaths without the pandemic against deaths with lockdown. It doesn’t compare with deaths without lockdown, which were estimated at around 250k plus by Imperisl College (March). The (belated) decision to lock down was taken against that canvas. - the people who did not go to hospital for other illnesses would probably not have gone there anyway due to the virus. It is ridiculous to say they didn’t go “ because of the lockdown”. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" the people who did not go to hospital for other illnesses would probably not have gone there anyway due to the virus. It is ridiculous to say they didn’t go “ because of the lockdown”. " But it is totally true they didn't go because of lockdown. Routine surgery, scans endoscopies and cancer treatment stopped. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" the people who did not go to hospital for other illnesses would probably not have gone there anyway due to the virus. It is ridiculous to say they didn’t go “ because of the lockdown”. But it is totally true they didn't go because of lockdown. Routine surgery, scans endoscopies and cancer treatment stopped. " Cancer treatment did not stop. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" the people who did not go to hospital for other illnesses would probably not have gone there anyway due to the virus. It is ridiculous to say they didn’t go “ because of the lockdown”. But it is totally true they didn't go because of lockdown. Routine surgery, scans endoscopies and cancer treatment stopped. Cancer treatment did not stop. " Lockdown didn't stop them, the virus may have. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Cancer treatment did not stop. " I have already replied to you about this on another thread. My cancer treatment stopped. The cancer treatment of three of my acquaintances in their 40s stopped and they all died last month. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" the people who did not go to hospital for other illnesses would probably not have gone there anyway due to the virus. It is ridiculous to say they didn’t go “ because of the lockdown”. But it is totally true they didn't go because of lockdown. Routine surgery, scans endoscopies and cancer treatment stopped. Cancer treatment did not stop. " It did for many people https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-53382950 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" the people who did not go to hospital for other illnesses would probably not have gone there anyway due to the virus. It is ridiculous to say they didn’t go “ because of the lockdown”. But it is totally true they didn't go because of lockdown. Routine surgery, scans endoscopies and cancer treatment stopped. Cancer treatment did not stop. Lockdown didn't stop them, the virus may have. " So why have the UK Gov said they need to restart and get treatment levels back to before lockdown? Why have families been in the media saying treatment stopped? Why have people posted all over FB on Gov site that their treatment stopped? Clearly by your reckoning they are all liars? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" the people who did not go to hospital for other illnesses would probably not have gone there anyway due to the virus. It is ridiculous to say they didn’t go “ because of the lockdown”. But it is totally true they didn't go because of lockdown. Routine surgery, scans endoscopies and cancer treatment stopped. " The key word here is ‘routine’, emergency medicine was maintained throughout. Some cancer treatment was stopped and in the main because the lowered levels of immunity where viewed as a higher risk in the environment at the time x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" the people who did not go to hospital for other illnesses would probably not have gone there anyway due to the virus. It is ridiculous to say they didn’t go “ because of the lockdown”. But it is totally true they didn't go because of lockdown. Routine surgery, scans endoscopies and cancer treatment stopped. Cancer treatment did not stop. " I know of two people who were put on steroids during lockdown. They were told it was short term, as it was to risky for them to go to the hospital. One of them two has since died. That is a true story. So make of that what you like...but it happened. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" the people who did not go to hospital for other illnesses would probably not have gone there anyway due to the virus. It is ridiculous to say they didn’t go “ because of the lockdown”. But it is totally true they didn't go because of lockdown. Routine surgery, scans endoscopies and cancer treatment stopped. Cancer treatment did not stop. Lockdown didn't stop them, the virus may have. So why have the UK Gov said they need to restart and get treatment levels back to before lockdown? Why have families been in the media saying treatment stopped? Why have people posted all over FB on Gov site that their treatment stopped? Clearly by your reckoning they are all liars?" The blanket statement 'cancer treatment stopped' is false, it didn't stop. Some treatment may have been postponed but it's misleading to say cancer treatment stopped because not all of it did. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" the people who did not go to hospital for other illnesses would probably not have gone there anyway due to the virus. It is ridiculous to say they didn’t go “ because of the lockdown”. But it is totally true they didn't go because of lockdown. Routine surgery, scans endoscopies and cancer treatment stopped. Cancer treatment did not stop. Lockdown didn't stop them, the virus may have. So why have the UK Gov said they need to restart and get treatment levels back to before lockdown? Why have families been in the media saying treatment stopped? Why have people posted all over FB on Gov site that their treatment stopped? Clearly by your reckoning they are all liars?" I don’t think anyone is saying treatments weren’t impacted, I do think Keeley is correct though, lockdown or no lockdown the virus would have have exactly the same impact on services. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
