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What could any government do
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
When the place with the highest infection rates has people gathering in massive crowds to party in the streets?
‘Circuit break’ ?
Or
Just let nature take its course? |
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By *ab jamesMan
over a year ago
ribble valley |
"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
"
I'm sure a vaccine would help. Herd immunity not always an option. Eg if it's like flu, and mutates every year, we'd have to keep getting jabbed.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"When the place with the highest infection rates has people gathering in massive crowds to party in the streets?
‘Circuit break’ ?
Or
Just let nature take its course? "
Frankly, yes, let nature do what nature will do.
It will happen anyway,sooner or later. People are fed up. We're tired of being preached at, threatened, deprived of income & liberty while the politicians and the favoured few sit there with their guaranteed incomes, secure jobs and gold plated pensions.
Impact of covid on the average politician : zero
Impact of covid on the average worker : Loss of income, debt, stress
Impact of covid on the low paid/young : Unemployment, debt, homelessness, stress, loss of opportunity
Why? Not because OF the virus, because of our futile attempts to do the impossible.
We cannot keep on shutting down the country every few weeks. They say a short lockdown buys 28 days... what happens then? It all starts again buy yet more people are unemployed, more businesses bankrupt - AND THE VIRUS IS STILL HERE!
If you want to stop it you need to provide a way for people to know whether they have it or not - every day. That means at home, self administered rapid indicative testing. That will solve this problem, lockdowns won't. |
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By *andK78Couple
over a year ago
Newport |
"When the place with the highest infection rates has people gathering in massive crowds to party in the streets?
‘Circuit break’ ?
Or
Just let nature take its course?
Frankly, yes, let nature do what nature will do.
It will happen anyway,sooner or later. People are fed up. We're tired of being preached at, threatened, deprived of income & liberty while the politicians and the favoured few sit there with their guaranteed incomes, secure jobs and gold plated pensions.
Impact of covid on the average politician : zero
Impact of covid on the average worker : Loss of income, debt, stress
Impact of covid on the low paid/young : Unemployment, debt, homelessness, stress, loss of opportunity
Why? Not because OF the virus, because of our futile attempts to do the impossible.
We cannot keep on shutting down the country every few weeks. They say a short lockdown buys 28 days... what happens then? It all starts again buy yet more people are unemployed, more businesses bankrupt - AND THE VIRUS IS STILL HERE!
If you want to stop it you need to provide a way for people to know whether they have it or not - every day. That means at home, self administered rapid indicative testing. That will solve this problem, lockdowns won't."
 |
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We don't let ' nature do what nature will do ' when a child is showing symptoms of meningitis, respect that may not be what the poster means but it reads as callous..
When plan a is clearly not working the right thing to do is actually have a plan b rather than tinker with what is not working, till we have done that I think the government should not or would not allow the elderly and vulnerable to be locked up or die in the tens of thousands whilst those yet not at that point get on with their lives..
The paper by the two scientific advisors as reported in the FT gives a figure of between 29-49% possible less deaths in January if we have a two week circuit break later this month..
Perhaps try that and sort the mess that is this governments track and trace out.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
The paper by the two scientific advisors as reported in the FT gives a figure of between 29-49% possible less deaths in January if we have a two week circuit break later this month..
"
Perhaps, but will they actually be prevented or just happen in February or March or April....
It's easy to make things look better in the short term and say 'look how clever we were, how good you all were' but it's pointless when all that happens is the cycle repeats every few months.
We need to stop talking about preventing deaths from covid. We aren't preventing anything, we're delaying it and hoping for a miracle.
Track and trace is at best a marginal help with this virus. Too many asymptomatic carriers. Too little asymptomatic testing. Too many disincentives to cooperate.
Even SAGE agree track and trace is a marginal help at best.
Daily self testing is the only even half way practical solution other than letting the disease run. It's that or China-style authoritarianism. |
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"When the place with the highest infection rates has people gathering in massive crowds to party in the streets?
‘Circuit break’ ?
Or
Just let nature take its course?
Frankly, yes, let nature do what nature will do.
It will happen anyway,sooner or later. People are fed up. We're tired of being preached at, threatened, deprived of income & liberty while the politicians and the favoured few sit there with their guaranteed incomes, secure jobs and gold plated pensions.
Impact of covid on the average politician : zero
Impact of covid on the average worker : Loss of income, debt, stress
Impact of covid on the low paid/young : Unemployment, debt, homelessness, stress, loss of opportunity
Why? Not because OF the virus, because of our futile attempts to do the impossible.
We cannot keep on shutting down the country every few weeks. They say a short lockdown buys 28 days... what happens then? It all starts again buy yet more people are unemployed, more businesses bankrupt - AND THE VIRUS IS STILL HERE!
If you want to stop it you need to provide a way for people to know whether they have it or not - every day. That means at home, self administered rapid indicative testing. That will solve this problem, lockdowns won't."
Here here I'm with you.....well said |
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"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
"
The whole herd immunity concept is a dangerous red-herring.
Firstly, whilst the world is developing "immunity" lots of people are dying.
Secondly, I'm there have been several proven incidents of multiple infections, meaning that there isn't guaranteed immunity from being infected.
Thirdly, the long term health issues attached to having the virus are only just beginning to show, and for some people they are seriously life limiting illness.
Cal |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
"
What percentage of the population need to be infected for herd immunity to work? |
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I’m sceptical of a two week circuit break. A three month one brought the infections down to a respectable level. Now with an increasingly fed up population I doubt it’s effectiveness.
This virus loves the indoors. |
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"I’m sceptical of a two week circuit break. A three month one brought the infections down to a respectable level. Now with an increasingly fed up population I doubt it’s effectiveness.
This virus loves the indoors. "
But... locked down means that people are indoors in limited numbers. |
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"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
The whole herd immunity concept is a dangerous red-herring.
Firstly, whilst the world is developing "immunity" lots of people are dying.
Secondly, I'm there have been several proven incidents of multiple infections, meaning that there isn't guaranteed immunity from being infected.
Thirdly, the long term health issues attached to having the virus are only just beginning to show, and for some people they are seriously life limiting illness.
Do you know what the average age of death in U.K. from Covid is ? The average lifespan in the U.K. is 81
Cal"
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We should have took the swedish approach.
Have a friend there plus I've seen numerous videos from sweden where social distancing is no longer in play neither is face masks.
They also dont seem to be getting any second wave and no sign of it coming despite no masks or distancing.
Zero deaths for 4 days in a row and a total of 10 in the past month, despite the colder temperatures.
Sweden have what it seems hit herd immunity now.
Sure at the start they had huge cases resulting in deaths but life there is no normal, packed trains and transport and restauraunts, no masks anymore, no need to be 6 feet apart.
They are over the worst.
Where as we are no where near the end of this and its going to be a long miserable winter here with no end in sight. |
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"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
The whole herd immunity concept is a dangerous red-herring.
Firstly, whilst the world is developing "immunity" lots of people are dying.
Secondly, I'm there have been several proven incidents of multiple infections, meaning that there isn't guaranteed immunity from being infected.
Thirdly, the long term health issues attached to having the virus are only just beginning to show, and for some people they are seriously life limiting illness.
Cal"
|
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"I’m sceptical of a two week circuit break. A three month one brought the infections down to a respectable level. Now with an increasingly fed up population I doubt it’s effectiveness.
This virus loves the indoors.
But... locked down means that people are indoors in limited numbers. "
But.......if it’s done over the half term they are locked down with their kids. And nobody seems to want to abide by it anyway. Incubation time. |
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"We should have took the swedish approach.
Have a friend there plus I've seen numerous videos from sweden where social distancing is no longer in play neither is face masks.
They also dont seem to be getting any second wave and no sign of it coming despite no masks or distancing.
Zero deaths for 4 days in a row and a total of 10 in the past month, despite the colder temperatures.
Sweden have what it seems hit herd immunity now.
Sure at the start they had huge cases resulting in deaths but life there is no normal, packed trains and transport and restauraunts, no masks anymore, no need to be 6 feet apart.
They are over the worst.
Where as we are no where near the end of this and its going to be a long miserable winter here with no end in sight."
The worst is yet to come Economic Depression is looming |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
Well said
"
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"When the place with the highest infection rates has people gathering in massive crowds to party in the streets?
‘Circuit break’ ?
Or
Just let nature take its course? "
Just heard boris could be imposing a 2 week lockdown during half term. |
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"We should have took the swedish approach.
Have a friend there plus I've seen numerous videos from sweden where social distancing is no longer in play neither is face masks.
They also dont seem to be getting any second wave and no sign of it coming despite no masks or distancing.
Zero deaths for 4 days in a row and a total of 10 in the past month, despite the colder temperatures.
Sweden have what it seems hit herd immunity now.
Sure at the start they had huge cases resulting in deaths but life there is no normal, packed trains and transport and restauraunts, no masks anymore, no need to be 6 feet apart.
They are over the worst.
Where as we are no where near the end of this and its going to be a long miserable winter here with no end in sight. The worst is yet to come Economic Depression is looming "
Indeed.
One tory MP from bolton chris green resigned yesterday saying "the restrictions don't work and the attempted cure is worse than the disease".
|
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"We should have took the swedish approach.
Have a friend there plus I've seen numerous videos from sweden where social distancing is no longer in play neither is face masks.
They also dont seem to be getting any second wave and no sign of it coming despite no masks or distancing.
Zero deaths for 4 days in a row and a total of 10 in the past month, despite the colder temperatures.
Sweden have what it seems hit herd immunity now.
Sure at the start they had huge cases resulting in deaths but life there is no normal, packed trains and transport and restauraunts, no masks anymore, no need to be 6 feet apart.
They are over the worst.
Where as we are no where near the end of this and its going to be a long miserable winter here with no end in sight. The worst is yet to come Economic Depression is looming
Indeed.
One tory MP from bolton chris green resigned yesterday saying "the restrictions don't work and the attempted cure is worse than the disease".
"
Well at least 1 out of over 600 politicians realises the truth |
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"We should have took the swedish approach.
Have a friend there plus I've seen numerous videos from sweden where social distancing is no longer in play neither is face masks.
They also dont seem to be getting any second wave and no sign of it coming despite no masks or distancing.
Zero deaths for 4 days in a row and a total of 10 in the past month, despite the colder temperatures.
Sweden have what it seems hit herd immunity now.
Sure at the start they had huge cases resulting in deaths but life there is no normal, packed trains and transport and restauraunts, no masks anymore, no need to be 6 feet apart.
They are over the worst.
Where as we are no where near the end of this and its going to be a long miserable winter here with no end in sight."
Exactly just get on with life...... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this... |
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"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this..."
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
|
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"
The paper by the two scientific advisors as reported in the FT gives a figure of between 29-49% possible less deaths in January if we have a two week circuit break later this month..
Perhaps, but will they actually be prevented or just happen in February or March or April....
It's easy to make things look better in the short term and say 'look how clever we were, how good you all were' but it's pointless when all that happens is the cycle repeats every few months.
We need to stop talking about preventing deaths from covid. We aren't preventing anything, we're delaying it and hoping for a miracle.
Track and trace is at best a marginal help with this virus. Too many asymptomatic carriers. Too little asymptomatic testing. Too many disincentives to cooperate.
Even SAGE agree track and trace is a marginal help at best.
Daily self testing is the only even half way practical solution other than letting the disease run. It's that or China-style authoritarianism."
The lack of an effective track and trace system is part of the problem yes as are those ignoring the requirement to isolate when positive although that is for some a rock and a hard place with their individual financial circumstances..
We don't even have legislation in relation to not travelling when in tier 3 so I think we are light years away from any authoritarianism..
I think they are trying to buy time and whether that works we will only know in due course, plate spinning top many plates and can't stop to assess whether it's the right thing to do.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this...
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
"
But you are not immune if you can catch it again, and that is probably why herd immunity is being dismissed with this pandemic... |
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"We should have took the swedish approach.
Have a friend there plus I've seen numerous videos from sweden where social distancing is no longer in play neither is face masks.
They also dont seem to be getting any second wave and no sign of it coming despite no masks or distancing.
Zero deaths for 4 days in a row and a total of 10 in the past month, despite the colder temperatures.
Sweden have what it seems hit herd immunity now.
Sure at the start they had huge cases resulting in deaths but life there is no normal, packed trains and transport and restauraunts, no masks anymore, no need to be 6 feet apart.
They are over the worst.
Where as we are no where near the end of this and its going to be a long miserable winter here with no end in sight. The worst is yet to come Economic Depression is looming
Indeed.
One tory MP from bolton chris green resigned yesterday saying "the restrictions don't work and the attempted cure is worse than the disease".
"
To be fair he is a bit of a serial resigner.. |
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"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this...
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
"
Is there yet any evidence that herd immunity for this virus is even achievable?
Do people develop immunity? If so for how long?are they still able to spread the virus to others? Do they have long term health consequences?
Until there is any evidence for those questions the aspirational "herd immunity" is just a pipe dream like an effective vaccine. So we should be very cautious about pinning our hopes on that as our only strategy.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this...
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
Is there yet any evidence that herd immunity for this virus is even achievable?
Do people develop immunity? If so for how long?are they still able to spread the virus to others? Do they have long term health consequences?
Until there is any evidence for those questions the aspirational "herd immunity" is just a pipe dream like an effective vaccine. So we should be very cautious about pinning our hopes on that as our only strategy.
"
Exactly... |
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By *ab jamesMan
over a year ago
ribble valley |
"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this...
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
Is there yet any evidence that herd immunity for this virus is even achievable?
Do people develop immunity? If so for how long?are they still able to spread the virus to others? Do they have long term health consequences?
Until there is any evidence for those questions the aspirational "herd immunity" is just a pipe dream like an effective vaccine. So we should be very cautious about pinning our hopes on that as our only strategy.
Exactly..."
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this...
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
Is there yet any evidence that herd immunity for this virus is even achievable?
Do people develop immunity? If so for how long?are they still able to spread the virus to others? Do they have long term health consequences?
Until there is any evidence for those questions the aspirational "herd immunity" is just a pipe dream like an effective vaccine. So we should be very cautious about pinning our hopes on that as our only strategy.
"
|
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"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this...
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
Is there yet any evidence that herd immunity for this virus is even achievable?
Do people develop immunity? If so for how long?are they still able to spread the virus to others? Do they have long term health consequences?
Until there is any evidence for those questions the aspirational "herd immunity" is just a pipe dream like an effective vaccine. So we should be very cautious about pinning our hopes on that as our only strategy.
"
Good point, this virus is unique in many ways and we know little thus far.. |
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You can have all the laws you like but if people don't follow them then its totally pointless.
What needs to be done now is heavy fines or imprisonment to set an example of what happens if you break them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
i think whoever makes those temperature beeper things should roll them out as cheap as possible so people can check at home and people can be checked at entrances to busy places. i worked in theatres early March and that's what we were doing |
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"We should have took the swedish approach.
Have a friend there plus I've seen numerous videos from sweden where social distancing is no longer in play neither is face masks.
They also dont seem to be getting any second wave and no sign of it coming despite no masks or distancing.
Zero deaths for 4 days in a row and a total of 10 in the past month, despite the colder temperatures.
Sweden have what it seems hit herd immunity now.
Sure at the start they had huge cases resulting in deaths but life there is no normal, packed trains and transport and restauraunts, no masks anymore, no need to be 6 feet apart.
They are over the worst.
Where as we are no where near the end of this and its going to be a long miserable winter here with no end in sight. The worst is yet to come Economic Depression is looming
Indeed.
One tory MP from bolton chris green resigned yesterday saying "the restrictions don't work and the attempted cure is worse than the disease".
"
Bolton voting in a Tory  |
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"When the place with the highest infection rates has people gathering in massive crowds to party in the streets?
‘Circuit break’ ?
Or
Just let nature take its course?
Frankly, yes, let nature do what nature will do.
It will happen anyway,sooner or later. People are fed up. We're tired of being preached at, threatened, deprived of income & liberty while the politicians and the favoured few sit there with their guaranteed incomes, secure jobs and gold plated pensions.
Impact of covid on the average politician : zero
Impact of covid on the average worker : Loss of income, debt, stress
Impact of covid on the low paid/young : Unemployment, debt, homelessness, stress, loss of opportunity
Why? Not because OF the virus, because of our futile attempts to do the impossible.
We cannot keep on shutting down the country every few weeks. They say a short lockdown buys 28 days... what happens then? It all starts again buy yet more people are unemployed, more businesses bankrupt - AND THE VIRUS IS STILL HERE!
If you want to stop it you need to provide a way for people to know whether they have it or not - every day. That means at home, self administered rapid indicative testing. That will solve this problem, lockdowns won't."
|
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"i think whoever makes those temperature beeper things should roll them out as cheap as possible so people can check at home and people can be checked at entrances to busy places. i worked in theatres early March and that's what we were doing "
We were getting our temp checked at the gym |
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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke. |
"i think whoever makes those temperature beeper things should roll them out as cheap as possible so people can check at home and people can be checked at entrances to busy places. i worked in theatres early March and that's what we were doing
We were getting our temp checked at the gym"
Well that's total proof lol - doesn't prove anything other than you don't have a high-temperature.  |
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"i think whoever makes those temperature beeper things should roll them out as cheap as possible so people can check at home and people can be checked at entrances to busy places. i worked in theatres early March and that's what we were doing
We were getting our temp checked at the gym
Well that's total proof lol - doesn't prove anything other than you don't have a high-temperature. "
I was just agreeing with the poster
Is that ok? |
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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke. |
"i think whoever makes those temperature beeper things should roll them out as cheap as possible so people can check at home and people can be checked at entrances to busy places. i worked in theatres early March and that's what we were doing
We were getting our temp checked at the gym
Well that's total proof lol - doesn't prove anything other than you don't have a high-temperature.
I was just agreeing with the poster
Is that ok?"
You do what the foop you like - I will too is that alright? |
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"i think whoever makes those temperature beeper things should roll them out as cheap as possible so people can check at home and people can be checked at entrances to busy places. i worked in theatres early March and that's what we were doing
We were getting our temp checked at the gym
Well that's total proof lol - doesn't prove anything other than you don't have a high-temperature.
I was just agreeing with the poster
Is that ok?
You do what the foop you like - I will too is that alright?"
What's a foop? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I'll have no.2 please. Oh no No.1. Oh no No.2........ Oh I can't decide.
You do it please but be decisive and stop this death from a thousand cuts as I am not in a position of authority. |
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"When the place with the highest infection rates has people gathering in massive crowds to party in the streets?
‘Circuit break’ ?
Or
Just let nature take its course? "
And a few hundred isnt really 'massive ' |
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"i think whoever makes those temperature beeper things should roll them out as cheap as possible so people can check at home and people can be checked at entrances to busy places. i worked in theatres early March and that's what we were doing "
It's window dressing though. 85 per cent of infections don't have a temperature. Having said that... Small improvements in many places will make a big difference in total |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this...
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
"
What percentage of the population need to be infected for herd immunity to work??  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
"
Correct - nothing else needs to be said on the whole damned bloody issue.
|
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By *asIsaCouple
over a year ago
harrow |
"We should have took the swedish approach.
Have a friend there plus I've seen numerous videos from sweden where social distancing is no longer in play neither is face masks.
They also dont seem to be getting any second wave and no sign of it coming despite no masks or distancing.
Zero deaths for 4 days in a row and a total of 10 in the past month, despite the colder temperatures.
Sweden have what it seems hit herd immunity now.
Sure at the start they had huge cases resulting in deaths but life there is no normal, packed trains and transport and restauraunts, no masks anymore, no need to be 6 feet apart.
They are over the worst.
Where as we are no where near the end of this and its going to be a long miserable winter here with no end in sight."
Absolute nonsense. I'm often in Sweden and in daily contact with friends who could teach us a thing or 2 about social distancing! Firstly, they have lost close to 6000 (equivalent to 40,000 in the Uk), many of whom suffered terribly in care homes , struggling to breathe and being given morphine for their final few hours. There are many inquiries going on now as to how that catastrophe occurred. Secondly, the Swedes are generally a disciplined bunch who on the whole listen to rules and social distancing is a way of life there! Where you got the idea from that they don't social distance is anybody's guess! Yes masks are worn in certain environments too. You cannot compare the demographic of Sweden to the Uk . They are far less densely populated than us and also have the highest percentage of propel in Europe who live on their own which obviously limits transmission. Cases are once again creeping up in Sweden and the idea that it's done and some sort of herd immunity kicking in is fantasy - just read many of the scientific journals now circulating in Sweden rather than make things up. |
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"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
Correct - nothing else needs to be said on the whole damned bloody issue.
"
Errr.. Apart from there is no evidence yet that herd Immunity is achievable with this virus. Nothing major. |
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"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this...
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
Is there yet any evidence that herd immunity for this virus is even achievable?
Do people develop immunity? If so for how long?are they still able to spread the virus to others? Do they have long term health consequences?
Until there is any evidence for those questions the aspirational "herd immunity" is just a pipe dream like an effective vaccine. So we should be very cautious about pinning our hopes on that as our only strategy.
"
You can try & question it all you like. Herd immunity is the only way this will end folks. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
Correct - nothing else needs to be said on the whole damned bloody issue.
Errr.. Apart from there is no evidence yet that herd Immunity is achievable with this virus. Nothing major. "
And it would mean that 40-50 million people would need to be infected in the UK alone, not going to work |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this...
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
Is there yet any evidence that herd immunity for this virus is even achievable?
Do people develop immunity? If so for how long?are they still able to spread the virus to others? Do they have long term health consequences?
Until there is any evidence for those questions the aspirational "herd immunity" is just a pipe dream like an effective vaccine. So we should be very cautious about pinning our hopes on that as our only strategy.
You can try & question it all you like. Herd immunity is the only way this will end folks. "
I will ask you yet again, what percentage of the population would need to be infected? |
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"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this...
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
Is there yet any evidence that herd immunity for this virus is even achievable?
Do people develop immunity? If so for how long?are they still able to spread the virus to others? Do they have long term health consequences?
Until there is any evidence for those questions the aspirational "herd immunity" is just a pipe dream like an effective vaccine. So we should be very cautious about pinning our hopes on that as our only strategy.
You can try & question it all you like. Herd immunity is the only way this will end folks.
I will ask you yet again, what percentage of the population would need to be infected? "
However many it needs. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this...
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
Is there yet any evidence that herd immunity for this virus is even achievable?
Do people develop immunity? If so for how long?are they still able to spread the virus to others? Do they have long term health consequences?
Until there is any evidence for those questions the aspirational "herd immunity" is just a pipe dream like an effective vaccine. So we should be very cautious about pinning our hopes on that as our only strategy.
You can try & question it all you like. Herd immunity is the only way this will end folks.
I will ask you yet again, what percentage of the population would need to be infected?
However many it needs. "
So you haven’t got a clue? here are some basic maths for you, we will probably need 50 million people in the uk to be infected, at 100,000 infections a week it would take approximately 10 years , |
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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke. |
"
I will ask you yet again, what percentage of the population would need to be infected? "
I read someplace not that long ago that WHO's percentage for Measles needed 94% immunity in it's population to interrupt the chain of transmission.  |
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"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this...
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
Is there yet any evidence that herd immunity for this virus is even achievable?
Do people develop immunity? If so for how long?are they still able to spread the virus to others? Do they have long term health consequences?
Until there is any evidence for those questions the aspirational "herd immunity" is just a pipe dream like an effective vaccine. So we should be very cautious about pinning our hopes on that as our only strategy.
You can try & question it all you like. Herd immunity is the only way this will end folks.
I will ask you yet again, what percentage of the population would need to be infected?
However many it needs.
So you haven’t got a clue? here are some basic maths for you, we will probably need 50 million people in the uk to be infected, at 100,000 infections a week it would take approximately 10 years , "
Where are you getting this 100,000 from? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I will ask you yet again, what percentage of the population would need to be infected?
I read someplace not that long ago that WHO's percentage for Measles needed 94% immunity in it's population to interrupt the chain of transmission. "
Really, wow, that would mean the UK would need over 60 million people to be infected, |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this...
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
Is there yet any evidence that herd immunity for this virus is even achievable?
Do people develop immunity? If so for how long?are they still able to spread the virus to others? Do they have long term health consequences?
Until there is any evidence for those questions the aspirational "herd immunity" is just a pipe dream like an effective vaccine. So we should be very cautious about pinning our hopes on that as our only strategy.
You can try & question it all you like. Herd immunity is the only way this will end folks.
I will ask you yet again, what percentage of the population would need to be infected?
However many it needs.
So you haven’t got a clue? here are some basic maths for you, we will probably need 50 million people in the uk to be infected, at 100,000 infections a week it would take approximately 10 years ,
Where are you getting this 100,000 from? "
Ok, would you prefer 200,000 infections a week or 30,000 a day? that would take 5 years? |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"When the place with the highest infection rates has people gathering in massive crowds to party in the streets?
‘Circuit break’ ?
Or
Just let nature take its course? "
Use the army as the Chineese do as all asian countries do that is why they tend to keep on top of the virus.Our soft western style democrasys need to toughen up or anarchy will be next that is worse |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"When the place with the highest infection rates has people gathering in massive crowds to party in the streets?
‘Circuit break’ ?
Or
Just let nature take its course? Use the army as the Chineese do as all asian countries do that is why they tend to keep on top of the virus.Our soft western style democrasys need to toughen up or anarchy will be next that is worse "
All Asian countries? |
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"
Do you know what the average age of death in U.K. from Covid is ? The average lifespan in the U.K. is 81"
So are you saying that it doesn't matter if people die, especially older people. Well, I'm sorry but I can't agree with that. In my view, everyone should be entitled to live the entirety if their lives, not a single minute of it should be sacrificed because people have to suffer "not going out" for a bit.
Cal |
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"
Do you know what the average age of death in U.K. from Covid is ? The average lifespan in the U.K. is 81
So are you saying that it doesn't matter if people die, especially older people. Well, I'm sorry but I can't agree with that. In my view, everyone should be entitled to live the entirety if their lives, not a single minute of it should be sacrificed because people have to suffer "not going out" for a bit.
Cal"
|
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"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this...
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
Is there yet any evidence that herd immunity for this virus is even achievable?
Do people develop immunity? If so for how long?are they still able to spread the virus to others? Do they have long term health consequences?
Until there is any evidence for those questions the aspirational "herd immunity" is just a pipe dream like an effective vaccine. So we should be very cautious about pinning our hopes on that as our only strategy.
You can try & question it all you like. Herd immunity is the only way this will end folks.
I will ask you yet again, what percentage of the population would need to be infected?
However many it needs.
So you haven’t got a clue? here are some basic maths for you, we will probably need 50 million people in the uk to be infected, at 100,000 infections a week it would take approximately 10 years ,
Where are you getting this 100,000 from?
Ok, would you prefer 200,000 infections a week or 30,000 a day? that would take 5 years? "
Where are you getting these random figures from? |
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By *emmabTV/TS
over a year ago
Leicestershire |
"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this...
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
Is there yet any evidence that herd immunity for this virus is even achievable?
Do people develop immunity? If so for how long?are they still able to spread the virus to others? Do they have long term health consequences?
Until there is any evidence for those questions the aspirational "herd immunity" is just a pipe dream like an effective vaccine. So we should be very cautious about pinning our hopes on that as our only strategy.
You can try & question it all you like. Herd immunity is the only way this will end folks.
I will ask you yet again, what percentage of the population would need to be infected?
However many it needs.
So you haven’t got a clue? here are some basic maths for you, we will probably need 50 million people in the uk to be infected, at 100,000 infections a week it would take approximately 10 years ,
Where are you getting this 100,000 from?
Ok, would you prefer 200,000 infections a week or 30,000 a day? that would take 5 years? "
So lets say you have a hospitalizations rate of 1% that means that we would have 3000 people being admitted a day in to hospital for 5 years if we kept an infection rate at 30,000 a day. Of course the rate would climb higher than that but these sort of numbers must bring home to the percentage of the population that we should allow this virus to run free. |
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There's a lot to be said for Sweden's approach which now has the lowest death rate in Europe and a very balanced infection rate and an economy that is thriving because they never locked down.
The opposing argument to the ineffectiveness of herd immunity. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this...
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
Is there yet any evidence that herd immunity for this virus is even achievable?
Do people develop immunity? If so for how long?are they still able to spread the virus to others? Do they have long term health consequences?
Until there is any evidence for those questions the aspirational "herd immunity" is just a pipe dream like an effective vaccine. So we should be very cautious about pinning our hopes on that as our only strategy.
You can try & question it all you like. Herd immunity is the only way this will end folks.
I will ask you yet again, what percentage of the population would need to be infected?
However many it needs.
So you haven’t got a clue? here are some basic maths for you, we will probably need 50 million people in the uk to be infected, at 100,000 infections a week it would take approximately 10 years ,
Where are you getting this 100,000 from?
Ok, would you prefer 200,000 infections a week or 30,000 a day? that would take 5 years?
Where are you getting these random figures from? "
Random? The population of the uk is 67 million, we need at least 50 million to be infected for herd immunity to work ? You quoted ‘how many it needs’ , do the maths and tell me how many people need to be infected in a year for herd immunity to be effective ? |
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By *ab jamesMan
over a year ago
ribble valley |
Under just giving up and going for herd immunity, people do realize it would swamp all hospitals very quickly. Then no hospital care for anything at all?
No operations, no cancer care, no emergency ops etc. |
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"There's a lot to be said for Sweden's approach which now has the lowest death rate in Europe and a very balanced infection rate and an economy that is thriving because they never locked down.
The opposing argument to the ineffectiveness of herd immunity."
Swedens economy thriving? Where are you getting that from?
What works for Sweden... Won't work for us. We have a much much higher population density, an entirely different demographic and what's most significant, we behave entirely differently with less respect for authority and our communities. You may as well compare us with Russia or North Korea. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"There's a lot to be said for Sweden's approach which now has the lowest death rate in Europe and a very balanced infection rate and an economy that is thriving because they never locked down.
The opposing argument to the ineffectiveness of herd immunity."
Sweden isn’t the UK (much lower population density) and they don’t compare well
against neighbouring Scandinavian nations like Finland, Norway & Denmark |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"There's a lot to be said for Sweden's approach which now has the lowest death rate in Europe and a very balanced infection rate and an economy that is thriving because they never locked down.
The opposing argument to the ineffectiveness of herd immunity.
Sweden isn’t the UK (much lower population density) and they don’t compare well
against neighbouring Scandinavian nations like Finland, Norway & Denmark "
I'm not sure any countries handling can be compared at the beginning of a pandemic. |
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"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this...
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
Is there yet any evidence that herd immunity for this virus is even achievable?
Do people develop immunity? If so for how long?are they still able to spread the virus to others? Do they have long term health consequences?
Until there is any evidence for those questions the aspirational "herd immunity" is just a pipe dream like an effective vaccine. So we should be very cautious about pinning our hopes on that as our only strategy.
You can try & question it all you like. Herd immunity is the only way this will end folks.
I will ask you yet again, what percentage of the population would need to be infected?
However many it needs.
So you haven’t got a clue? here are some basic maths for you, we will probably need 50 million people in the uk to be infected, at 100,000 infections a week it would take approximately 10 years ,
Where are you getting this 100,000 from?
Ok, would you prefer 200,000 infections a week or 30,000 a day? that would take 5 years?
Where are you getting these random figures from?
Random? The population of the uk is 67 million, we need at least 50 million to be infected for herd immunity to work ? You quoted ‘how many it needs’ , do the maths and tell me how many people need to be infected in a year for herd immunity to be effective ? "
And you don’t think 50 million can be infected in a year? |
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"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
"
Heard immunity for measles never worked til a vaccine was developed!
However a lockdown just seems to kick the can down the road!
Think the best idea would be to protect the vulnerable and allow everyone else to get on and get the country back up and running normally again! |
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"When the place with the highest infection rates has people gathering in massive crowds to party in the streets?
‘Circuit break’ ?
Or
Just let nature take its course?
Frankly, yes, let nature do what nature will do.
It will happen anyway,sooner or later. People are fed up. We're tired of being preached at, threatened, deprived of income & liberty while the politicians and the favoured few sit there with their guaranteed incomes, secure jobs and gold plated pensions.
Impact of covid on the average politician : zero
Impact of covid on the average worker : Loss of income, debt, stress
Impact of covid on the low paid/young : Unemployment, debt, homelessness, stress, loss of opportunity
Why? Not because OF the virus, because of our futile attempts to do the impossible.
We cannot keep on shutting down the country every few weeks. They say a short lockdown buys 28 days... what happens then? It all starts again buy yet more people are unemployed, more businesses bankrupt - AND THE VIRUS IS STILL HERE!
If you want to stop it you need to provide a way for people to know whether they have it or not - every day. That means at home, self administered rapid indicative testing. That will solve this problem, lockdowns won't."
This, 100% correct |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
You cannot compare UK and Sweden.
Firstly, their population density is much lower than the UK.
Secondly, they do not have a universal approach as some policies are decided by local authority.
Thirdly, the most populous areas have a similar Covid death rate to the UK. Stockholm has Covid 91 deaths per 100,000. In England alone, the Covid death rate per 100,000 was 90.9 between March and July.
Herd Immunity has been critisised by the WHO. It is an immoral approach. Who decides who gets to die for the sake of 'herd immunity'. Would you be happy to let your parents, children, friends, and relatives die? You don't get to choose who gets infected with this approach. It could be you. And that doesn't even take into account that contracting the virus has long term consequences. Also, we have seen cases of people contracting the virus twice!
On the topic of track and trace... Track and trace is not being criticised. The *UK's* Track and Track is being criticised. The Government spent far too much time and money trying to develop their own system (and lining the pockets of their mates), and 6 months down the line they decided to opt for Apple & Googles system when they could have just done that in the first place. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
Heard immunity for measles never worked til a vaccine was developed!
However a lockdown just seems to kick the can down the road!
Think the best idea would be to protect the vulnerable and allow everyone else to get on and get the country back up and running normally again!"
If you confined everyone who was technically vulnerable, there wouldn't be enough people around for the economy to even remotely function normally. Not to mention even in the strictest lockdown, there has to be some interaction between vulnerable and less vulnerable (there is no such thing as not vulnerable), unless you plan on shutting the door on all the vulnerable and letting them starve.
Delay is exactly what we need at the moment, to both help avoid a big spike in the traditional flu season and to allow more time for treatments and hopefully a cure and a vaccine to be developed. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Waste money on an ONS SURVEY which I got in post today.
Says 2 year olds can fill it in.
It means inviting them to your home.
No. Not partaking. I keep it for a FOI in how much it cost to send out. When people are homeless or without food. |
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By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
"
"...It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity..."
----------------------------
Just as it is blindingly obvious that the herd immunity strategy will lead to thousands more deaths, and thousands more people suffering with Long Covid - with long term and possibly permanent health issues.
It will also lead to an increase in hospitalisations; making it harder for the NHS to effectively treat other illness, which could in turn lead to more deaths from other illness.
And as far as immunity goes, it is clear that you can be re-infected with covid.
Some other things to note about immunity:
- There is no conclusive scientific evidence (yet) on the issue of immunity.
- Even if infected people have any immunity, we still do not know how long that immunity lasts for.
- If the virus mutates, you may not be immune from the new mutations.
- Some people who recover from the virus do not produce any antibodies at all, as such there are questions as to whether such people have any immunity to start with.
- Some people with mild symptoms have produced low levels of antibodies. It is not clear whether these low levels of antibodies are sufficient enough to prevent re-infection.
- the presence of anti-bodies does not automatically guarantee immunity. There is evidence that some viruses can create an antibody response, but the antibodies do not prevent re-infection.
Until we know all the details surrounding immunity with with virus, the herd immunity strategy is a non starter.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
"
Except that there are multiple confirmed cases of reinfection.
Studies over the last 6 months indicates antibody resistance seems to deteriorate over short time frames.
So herd immunity is not an option if studies show this is a statistical average. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
"...It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity..."
----------------------------
Just as it is blindingly obvious that the herd immunity strategy will lead to thousands more deaths, and thousands more people suffering with Long Covid - with long term and possibly permanent health issues.
It will also lead to an increase in hospitalisations; making it harder for the NHS to effectively treat other illness, which could in turn lead to more deaths from other illness.
And as far as immunity goes, it is clear that you can be re-infected with covid.
Some other things to note about immunity:
- There is no conclusive scientific evidence (yet) on the issue of immunity.
- Even if infected people have any immunity, we still do not know how long that immunity lasts for.
- If the virus mutates, you may not be immune from the new mutations.
- Some people who recover from the virus do not produce any antibodies at all, as such there are questions as to whether such people have any immunity to start with.
- Some people with mild symptoms have produced low levels of antibodies. It is not clear whether these low levels of antibodies are sufficient enough to prevent re-infection.
- the presence of anti-bodies does not automatically guarantee immunity. There is evidence that some viruses can create an antibody response, but the antibodies do not prevent re-infection.
Until we know all the details surrounding immunity with with virus, the herd immunity strategy is a non starter.
"
Thank you, you put everything I wanted to in a concise way, and clearly have more hope than me that most people want to learn the realities of the situation. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
"
When in history has herd immunity been achieved without a vaccine? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
"...It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity..."
----------------------------
Just as it is blindingly obvious that the herd immunity strategy will lead to thousands more deaths, and thousands more people suffering with Long Covid - with long term and possibly permanent health issues.
It will also lead to an increase in hospitalisations; making it harder for the NHS to effectively treat other illness, which could in turn lead to more deaths from other illness.
And as far as immunity goes, it is clear that you can be re-infected with covid.
Some other things to note about immunity:
- There is no conclusive scientific evidence (yet) on the issue of immunity.
- Even if infected people have any immunity, we still do not know how long that immunity lasts for.
- If the virus mutates, you may not be immune from the new mutations.
- Some people who recover from the virus do not produce any antibodies at all, as such there are questions as to whether such people have any immunity to start with.
- Some people with mild symptoms have produced low levels of antibodies. It is not clear whether these low levels of antibodies are sufficient enough to prevent re-infection.
- the presence of anti-bodies does not automatically guarantee immunity. There is evidence that some viruses can create an antibody response, but the antibodies do not prevent re-infection.
Until we know all the details surrounding immunity with with virus, the herd immunity strategy is a non starter.
"
Well said.
But isn't it terrifying this shit needs explaining?  |
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"When the place with the highest infection rates has people gathering in massive crowds to party in the streets?
‘Circuit break’ ?
Or
Just let nature take its course?
Frankly, yes, let nature do what nature will do.
It will happen anyway,sooner or later. People are fed up. We're tired of being preached at, threatened, deprived of income & liberty while the politicians and the favoured few sit there with their guaranteed incomes, secure jobs and gold plated pensions.
Impact of covid on the average politician : zero
Impact of covid on the average worker : Loss of income, debt, stress
Impact of covid on the low paid/young : Unemployment, debt, homelessness, stress, loss of opportunity
Why? Not because OF the virus, because of our futile attempts to do the impossible.
We cannot keep on shutting down the country every few weeks. They say a short lockdown buys 28 days... what happens then? It all starts again buy yet more people are unemployed, more businesses bankrupt - AND THE VIRUS IS STILL HERE!
If you want to stop it you need to provide a way for people to know whether they have it or not - every day. That means at home, self administered rapid indicative testing. That will solve this problem, lockdowns won't.
This, 100% correct"
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Studies over the last 6 months indicates antibody resistance seems to deteriorate over short time frames.
So how would a vaccine work ?"
The same way we deal with the flu.
Every year we develop vaccines for what we expect to be the most infectious and dangerous strains of the flu.
We do this to issue them as a booster shot to the most vulnerable and then to as many members of the public as possible to try and reduce the risk of rapid spread and to protect vulnerable individuals.
Once we have a COVID vaccine, if antibody resistance is shown to decline, we'll have to administer it yearly. |
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"
Studies over the last 6 months indicates antibody resistance seems to deteriorate over short time frames.
So how would a vaccine work ?
The same way we deal with the flu.
Every year we develop vaccines for what we expect to be the most infectious and dangerous strains of the flu.
We do this to issue them as a booster shot to the most vulnerable and then to as many members of the public as possible to try and reduce the risk of rapid spread and to protect vulnerable individuals.
Once we have a COVID vaccine, if antibody resistance is shown to decline, we'll have to administer it yearly."
I have first hand knowledge that in this indovidual case antibodies lasted less than 5 months. The last blood test stated antibodies were at an almost zero level. Now what that means regards a vaccine and longer term immunity I don't know. But I do know that in this case... Their antibodies have reduced to insignificant in a very short space of time. |
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By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"We should have took the swedish approach.
Have a friend there plus I've seen numerous videos from sweden where social distancing is no longer in play neither is face masks.
They also dont seem to be getting any second wave and no sign of it coming despite no masks or distancing.
Zero deaths for 4 days in a row and a total of 10 in the past month, despite the colder temperatures.
Sweden have what it seems hit herd immunity now.
Sure at the start they had huge cases resulting in deaths but life there is no normal, packed trains and transport and restauraunts, no masks anymore, no need to be 6 feet apart.
They are over the worst.
Where as we are no where near the end of this and its going to be a long miserable winter here with no end in sight."
-----------------
All of that explains why among all the Nordic countries,
-Sweden has the highest death rate per capita,
- the highest number of infections,
-plus they’ve had a worse economic outcome compared to neighbours Norway and Finland ( who locked down)
Sweden’s strategy did not save lives nor their economy.
And you say they are not having a second wave?
Well their daily new cases as of 5 Sept was 171. On 9 Oct it had jumped to 785
As of 9 Oct daily new cases:
Sweden 785
Norway 167
Finland 235
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this...
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
Is there yet any evidence that herd immunity for this virus is even achievable?
Do people develop immunity? If so for how long?are they still able to spread the virus to others? Do they have long term health consequences?
Until there is any evidence for those questions the aspirational "herd immunity" is just a pipe dream like an effective vaccine. So we should be very cautious about pinning our hopes on that as our only strategy.
You can try & question it all you like. Herd immunity is the only way this will end folks.
I will ask you yet again, what percentage of the population would need to be infected?
However many it needs.
So you haven’t got a clue? here are some basic maths for you, we will probably need 50 million people in the uk to be infected, at 100,000 infections a week it would take approximately 10 years ,
Where are you getting this 100,000 from?
Ok, would you prefer 200,000 infections a week or 30,000 a day? that would take 5 years?
Where are you getting these random figures from?
Random? The population of the uk is 67 million, we need at least 50 million to be infected for herd immunity to work ? You quoted ‘how many it needs’ , do the maths and tell me how many people need to be infected in a year for herd immunity to be effective ?
And you don’t think 50 million can be infected in a year? "
1 million a week? 150,000 a day? Probably, do you think the NHS can cope with that |
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"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
When in history has herd immunity been achieved without a vaccine?"
Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population. |
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"When the place with the highest infection rates has people gathering in massive crowds to party in the streets?
‘Circuit break’ ?
Or
Just let nature take its course? "
A decent government would issue one warning then use teargas |
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By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
When in history has herd immunity been achieved without a vaccine?
Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population."
"....Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population..."
---------------------------
And that's a good reason to NOT use the Herd Immunity Approach. |
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"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
When in history has herd immunity been achieved without a vaccine?"
1918 |
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"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
When in history has herd immunity been achieved without a vaccine?
Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population.
"....Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population..."
---------------------------
And that's a good reason to NOT use the Herd Immunity Approach."
Except the bubonic plague killed 1 in 3 |
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"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this...
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
Is there yet any evidence that herd immunity for this virus is even achievable?
Do people develop immunity? If so for how long?are they still able to spread the virus to others? Do they have long term health consequences?
Until there is any evidence for those questions the aspirational "herd immunity" is just a pipe dream like an effective vaccine. So we should be very cautious about pinning our hopes on that as our only strategy.
You can try & question it all you like. Herd immunity is the only way this will end folks.
I will ask you yet again, what percentage of the population would need to be infected?
However many it needs.
So you haven’t got a clue? here are some basic maths for you, we will probably need 50 million people in the uk to be infected, at 100,000 infections a week it would take approximately 10 years ,
Where are you getting this 100,000 from?
Ok, would you prefer 200,000 infections a week or 30,000 a day? that would take 5 years?
Where are you getting these random figures from?
Random? The population of the uk is 67 million, we need at least 50 million to be infected for herd immunity to work ? You quoted ‘how many it needs’ , do the maths and tell me how many people need to be infected in a year for herd immunity to be effective ?
And you don’t think 50 million can be infected in a year?
1 million a week? 150,000 a day? Probably, do you think the NHS can cope with that "
Course it can. Most won’t need treatment remember. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this...
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
Is there yet any evidence that herd immunity for this virus is even achievable?
Do people develop immunity? If so for how long?are they still able to spread the virus to others? Do they have long term health consequences?
Until there is any evidence for those questions the aspirational "herd immunity" is just a pipe dream like an effective vaccine. So we should be very cautious about pinning our hopes on that as our only strategy.
You can try & question it all you like. Herd immunity is the only way this will end folks.
I will ask you yet again, what percentage of the population would need to be infected?
However many it needs.
So you haven’t got a clue? here are some basic maths for you, we will probably need 50 million people in the uk to be infected, at 100,000 infections a week it would take approximately 10 years ,
Where are you getting this 100,000 from?
Ok, would you prefer 200,000 infections a week or 30,000 a day? that would take 5 years?
Where are you getting these random figures from?
Random? The population of the uk is 67 million, we need at least 50 million to be infected for herd immunity to work ? You quoted ‘how many it needs’ , do the maths and tell me how many people need to be infected in a year for herd immunity to be effective ?
And you don’t think 50 million can be infected in a year?
1 million a week? 150,000 a day? Probably, do you think the NHS can cope with that
Course it can. Most won’t need treatment remember. "
How many are in hospital compared with the current infection rate? |
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By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
When in history has herd immunity been achieved without a vaccine?
Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population.
"....Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population..."
---------------------------
And that's a good reason to NOT use the Herd Immunity Approach.
Except the bubonic plague killed 1 in 3"
"..Except the bubonic plague killed 1 in 3.."
-----------------
And 1 in 3 in a very high percentage.
That's about 21.5 million of the current British population.
|
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"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this...
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
Is there yet any evidence that herd immunity for this virus is even achievable?
Do people develop immunity? If so for how long?are they still able to spread the virus to others? Do they have long term health consequences?
Until there is any evidence for those questions the aspirational "herd immunity" is just a pipe dream like an effective vaccine. So we should be very cautious about pinning our hopes on that as our only strategy.
You can try & question it all you like. Herd immunity is the only way this will end folks.
I will ask you yet again, what percentage of the population would need to be infected?
However many it needs.
So you haven’t got a clue? here are some basic maths for you, we will probably need 50 million people in the uk to be infected, at 100,000 infections a week it would take approximately 10 years ,
Where are you getting this 100,000 from?
Ok, would you prefer 200,000 infections a week or 30,000 a day? that would take 5 years?
Where are you getting these random figures from?
Random? The population of the uk is 67 million, we need at least 50 million to be infected for herd immunity to work ? You quoted ‘how many it needs’ , do the maths and tell me how many people need to be infected in a year for herd immunity to be effective ?
And you don’t think 50 million can be infected in a year?
1 million a week? 150,000 a day? Probably, do you think the NHS can cope with that
Course it can. Most won’t need treatment remember.
How many are in hospital compared with the current infection rate? "
You seem to know don’t you, so I’m sure you’ll tell me.
Keep your head buried in the sand to the reality of what needs to happen.
I’m off for lunch.
|
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By *ab jamesMan
over a year ago
ribble valley |
"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this...
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
Is there yet any evidence that herd immunity for this virus is even achievable?
Do people develop immunity? If so for how long?are they still able to spread the virus to others? Do they have long term health consequences?
Until there is any evidence for those questions the aspirational "herd immunity" is just a pipe dream like an effective vaccine. So we should be very cautious about pinning our hopes on that as our only strategy.
You can try & question it all you like. Herd immunity is the only way this will end folks.
I will ask you yet again, what percentage of the population would need to be infected?
However many it needs.
So you haven’t got a clue? here are some basic maths for you, we will probably need 50 million people in the uk to be infected, at 100,000 infections a week it would take approximately 10 years ,
Where are you getting this 100,000 from?
Ok, would you prefer 200,000 infections a week or 30,000 a day? that would take 5 years?
Where are you getting these random figures from?
Random? The population of the uk is 67 million, we need at least 50 million to be infected for herd immunity to work ? You quoted ‘how many it needs’ , do the maths and tell me how many people need to be infected in a year for herd immunity to be effective ?
And you don’t think 50 million can be infected in a year?
1 million a week? 150,000 a day? Probably, do you think the NHS can cope with that
Course it can. Most won’t need treatment remember. "
What about Liverpool, as we speak, running out of critical care beds! That's with the current rate of infections! You would see that right round the country,if we let covid run riot. |
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"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
When in history has herd immunity been achieved without a vaccine?
Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population.
"....Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population..."
---------------------------
And that's a good reason to NOT use the Herd Immunity Approach.
Except the bubonic plague killed 1 in 3
"..Except the bubonic plague killed 1 in 3.."
-----------------
And 1 in 3 in a very high percentage.
That's about 21.5 million of the current British population.
"
Covid doesn’t kill 1 in 3. That’s the point. Herd immunity will probably lead to 600,000 dead with this virus. Yeah, scary.
But, this pales when you consider how many millions will die long term if current strategy continues to be employed.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this...
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
Is there yet any evidence that herd immunity for this virus is even achievable?
Do people develop immunity? If so for how long?are they still able to spread the virus to others? Do they have long term health consequences?
Until there is any evidence for those questions the aspirational "herd immunity" is just a pipe dream like an effective vaccine. So we should be very cautious about pinning our hopes on that as our only strategy.
You can try & question it all you like. Herd immunity is the only way this will end folks.
I will ask you yet again, what percentage of the population would need to be infected?
However many it needs.
So you haven’t got a clue? here are some basic maths for you, we will probably need 50 million people in the uk to be infected, at 100,000 infections a week it would take approximately 10 years ,
Where are you getting this 100,000 from?
Ok, would you prefer 200,000 infections a week or 30,000 a day? that would take 5 years?
Where are you getting these random figures from?
Random? The population of the uk is 67 million, we need at least 50 million to be infected for herd immunity to work ? You quoted ‘how many it needs’ , do the maths and tell me how many people need to be infected in a year for herd immunity to be effective ?
And you don’t think 50 million can be infected in a year?
1 million a week? 150,000 a day? Probably, do you think the NHS can cope with that
Course it can. Most won’t need treatment remember.
How many are in hospital compared with the current infection rate?
You seem to know don’t you, so I’m sure you’ll tell me.
Keep your head buried in the sand to the reality of what needs to happen.
I’m off for lunch.
"
Yes I do know, obviously you are oblivious to the stats otherwise you wouldn’t keep making ridiculous statements regarding herd immunity. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
"
There is no evidence as yet that having caught it you become immune, there are a growing number of cases where folks have been reinfected following recovery from Covid - the 2nd infection often being worse than the first |
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WHO say for world immunity we need 4.6 billion. The Spanish flu infected somewhere about 40-50% of the world population and killed 50 - 100 million but exact figures difficult to be accurate due to lack of accurate record keeping and misinformation during WW1. |
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By *asIsaCouple
over a year ago
harrow |
"There's a lot to be said for Sweden's approach which now has the lowest death rate in Europe and a very balanced infection rate and an economy that is thriving because they never locked down.
The opposing argument to the ineffectiveness of herd immunity."
Rubbish ! Why are you just saying things?! It's economy is far from thriving if you actually read the facts and Sweden has far far from the lowest death rate in Europe. It has by far the highest death rate in Scandinavia with currently 5892 which is equivalent to approx 39000 in the UK! Facts here not fiction |
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By *asIsaCouple
over a year ago
harrow |
"We should have took the swedish approach.
Have a friend there plus I've seen numerous videos from sweden where social distancing is no longer in play neither is face masks.
They also dont seem to be getting any second wave and no sign of it coming despite no masks or distancing.
Zero deaths for 4 days in a row and a total of 10 in the past month, despite the colder temperatures.
Sweden have what it seems hit herd immunity now.
Sure at the start they had huge cases resulting in deaths but life there is no normal, packed trains and transport and restauraunts, no masks anymore, no need to be 6 feet apart.
They are over the worst.
Where as we are no where near the end of this and its going to be a long miserable winter here with no end in sight.
-----------------
All of that explains why among all the Nordic countries,
-Sweden has the highest death rate per capita,
- the highest number of infections,
-plus they’ve had a worse economic outcome compared to neighbours Norway and Finland ( who locked down)
Sweden’s strategy did not save lives nor their economy.
And you say they are not having a second wave?
Well their daily new cases as of 5 Sept was 171. On 9 Oct it had jumped to 785
As of 9 Oct daily new cases:
Sweden 785
Norway 167
Finland 235
"
Exactly! 785 being equivalent to approx to 5181 in the UK so all good there and no need to social distance! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"When the place with the highest infection rates has people gathering in massive crowds to party in the streets?
‘Circuit break’ ?
Or
Just let nature take its course? "
Leave.
Infected isn't ill or dead. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
I'm sure a vaccine would help. Herd immunity not always an option. Eg if it's like flu, and mutates every year, we'd have to keep getting jabbed. "
You're sure are you? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
What percentage of the population need to be infected for herd immunity to work? "
There's no such thing as herd immunity in relation to this type of virus.
It's the most unhelpful inaccurate "buzz word" that needs removing from public consumption. |
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By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
When in history has herd immunity been achieved without a vaccine?
Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population.
"....Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population..."
---------------------------
And that's a good reason to NOT use the Herd Immunity Approach.
Except the bubonic plague killed 1 in 3
"..Except the bubonic plague killed 1 in 3.."
-----------------
And 1 in 3 in a very high percentage.
That's about 21.5 million of the current British population.
Covid doesn’t kill 1 in 3. That’s the point. Herd immunity will probably lead to 600,000 dead with this virus. Yeah, scary.
But, this pales when you consider how many millions will die long term if current strategy continues to be employed.
"
"...Covid doesn’t kill 1 in 3. That’s the point. Herd immunity will probably lead to 600,000 dead with this virus. Yeah, scary...."
-----------------
I didn't say Covid kills 1 in 3, I just pointed out why Herd Immunity should not be an option.
And like you say: Herd immunity could potentially lead to 600,000 covid deaths.
Glad you accept that 600,000 deaths is scary.
And is the Covid Deaths the only thing we need to be concerned about??
No, because we also need to remember that death is not the only consequence of covid. Some of those who recover end of up suffering from ‘Long Tail Covid’ and end up with long term health problems which will require treatment. This does not just affect the old and vulnerable, it affects the young and healthy as well.
These ‘Long Covid’ sufferers will then need NHS treatment..... which will require more time and resources from the NHS......which will then lead to longer waiting lists........which will then lead to more people being undiagnosed for other illness........which will lead to even more people dying due to lack of treatment.
So you can see the devastating chain-of-events that will occur if we just sit back and allow the virus to spiral out of control in the name of Herd Immunity. The direct and indirect covid deaths will far exceed the 600,000 which you confess is scary enough.
No action we take now will cause the virus to disappear overnight, but any action taken to reduce the spread will save lives and our health system. The worst decision to make - is to do nothing at all. |
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"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
The whole herd immunity concept is a dangerous red-herring.
Firstly, whilst the world is developing "immunity" lots of people are dying.
Secondly, I'm there have been several proven incidents of multiple infections, meaning that there isn't guaranteed immunity from being infected.
Thirdly, the long term health issues attached to having the virus are only just beginning to show, and for some people they are seriously life limiting illness.
Cal"
Fourthly leaving it all to herd immunity means at some point in a few weeks having people queuing outside full hospitals waiting on some another patient to die before they can access any oxygen or ventilator  |
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By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"We should have took the swedish approach.
Have a friend there plus I've seen numerous videos from sweden where social distancing is no longer in play neither is face masks.
They also dont seem to be getting any second wave and no sign of it coming despite no masks or distancing.
Zero deaths for 4 days in a row and a total of 10 in the past month, despite the colder temperatures.
Sweden have what it seems hit herd immunity now.
Sure at the start they had huge cases resulting in deaths but life there is no normal, packed trains and transport and restauraunts, no masks anymore, no need to be 6 feet apart.
They are over the worst.
Where as we are no where near the end of this and its going to be a long miserable winter here with no end in sight.
-----------------
All of that explains why among all the Nordic countries,
-Sweden has the highest death rate per capita,
- the highest number of infections,
-plus they’ve had a worse economic outcome compared to neighbours Norway and Finland ( who locked down)
Sweden’s strategy did not save lives nor their economy.
And you say they are not having a second wave?
Well their daily new cases as of 5 Sept was 171. On 9 Oct it had jumped to 785
As of 9 Oct daily new cases:
Sweden 785
Norway 167
Finland 235
Exactly! 785 being equivalent to approx to 5181 in the UK so all good there and no need to social distance!"
"...785 being equivalent to approx to 5181 in the UK..."
---------------------
And since we have more that 5181 Cases in a day in the UK, that's a good reason NOT to follow Sweden's approach.
And just a few more things to give you some perspective about Sweden's approach:
In the six months to the end of June, the country recorded its highest death tally in 150 years due to the coronavirus.
Covid-19 claimed about 4,500 lives in this period.
Coupled with unrelated deaths, this totalled 51,405 fatalities – a higher number than in any year since 1869, when 55,431 people died, partly as a result of a famine.
Finally the UK government is planning to add Sweden to its quarantine list due to the recent, sudden and uncontrolled rise in infections taking place there. |
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Create community solidarity. Be trustworthy. Communicate clearly. Have rules that apply to all.
Coherent policies.
An effective test, trace, isolate and support system. Using systems with track records.
You'll still get people flouting the rules, but far fewer of them.
|
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By *ab jamesMan
over a year ago
ribble valley |
"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
I'm sure a vaccine would help. Herd immunity not always an option. Eg if it's like flu, and mutates every year, we'd have to keep getting jabbed.
You're sure are you?"
Yes, I'm sure. Are you saying a vaccine wouldn't help.? Really?
 |
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"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
When in history has herd immunity been achieved without a vaccine?
Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population.
"....Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population..."
---------------------------
And that's a good reason to NOT use the Herd Immunity Approach.
Except the bubonic plague killed 1 in 3
"..Except the bubonic plague killed 1 in 3.."
-----------------
And 1 in 3 in a very high percentage.
That's about 21.5 million of the current British population.
Covid doesn’t kill 1 in 3. That’s the point. Herd immunity will probably lead to 600,000 dead with this virus. Yeah, scary.
But, this pales when you consider how many millions will die long term if current strategy continues to be employed.
"...Covid doesn’t kill 1 in 3. That’s the point. Herd immunity will probably lead to 600,000 dead with this virus. Yeah, scary...."
-----------------
I didn't say Covid kills 1 in 3, I just pointed out why Herd Immunity should not be an option.
And like you say: Herd immunity could potentially lead to 600,000 covid deaths.
Glad you accept that 600,000 deaths is scary.
And is the Covid Deaths the only thing we need to be concerned about??
No, because we also need to remember that death is not the only consequence of covid. Some of those who recover end of up suffering from ‘Long Tail Covid’ and end up with long term health problems which will require treatment. This does not just affect the old and vulnerable, it affects the young and healthy as well.
These ‘Long Covid’ sufferers will then need NHS treatment..... which will require more time and resources from the NHS......which will then lead to longer waiting lists........which will then lead to more people being undiagnosed for other illness........which will lead to even more people dying due to lack of treatment.
So you can see the devastating chain-of-events that will occur if we just sit back and allow the virus to spiral out of control in the name of Herd Immunity. The direct and indirect covid deaths will far exceed the 600,000 which you confess is scary enough.
No action we take now will cause the virus to disappear overnight, but any action taken to reduce the spread will save lives and our health system. The worst decision to make - is to do nothing at all."
The long Covid argument just doesn’t cut I’m afraid.
You’re entitled to your opinion though.
I just don’t agree with your logic.
|
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"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
When in history has herd immunity been achieved without a vaccine?
Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population.
"....Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population..."
---------------------------
And that's a good reason to NOT use the Herd Immunity Approach.
Except the bubonic plague killed 1 in 3
"..Except the bubonic plague killed 1 in 3.."
-----------------
And 1 in 3 in a very high percentage.
That's about 21.5 million of the current British population.
Covid doesn’t kill 1 in 3. That’s the point. Herd immunity will probably lead to 600,000 dead with this virus. Yeah, scary.
But, this pales when you consider how many millions will die long term if current strategy continues to be employed.
"...Covid doesn’t kill 1 in 3. That’s the point. Herd immunity will probably lead to 600,000 dead with this virus. Yeah, scary...."
-----------------
I didn't say Covid kills 1 in 3, I just pointed out why Herd Immunity should not be an option.
And like you say: Herd immunity could potentially lead to 600,000 covid deaths.
Glad you accept that 600,000 deaths is scary.
And is the Covid Deaths the only thing we need to be concerned about??
No, because we also need to remember that death is not the only consequence of covid. Some of those who recover end of up suffering from ‘Long Tail Covid’ and end up with long term health problems which will require treatment. This does not just affect the old and vulnerable, it affects the young and healthy as well.
These ‘Long Covid’ sufferers will then need NHS treatment..... which will require more time and resources from the NHS......which will then lead to longer waiting lists........which will then lead to more people being undiagnosed for other illness........which will lead to even more people dying due to lack of treatment.
So you can see the devastating chain-of-events that will occur if we just sit back and allow the virus to spiral out of control in the name of Herd Immunity. The direct and indirect covid deaths will far exceed the 600,000 which you confess is scary enough.
No action we take now will cause the virus to disappear overnight, but any action taken to reduce the spread will save lives and our health system. The worst decision to make - is to do nothing at all.
The long Covid argument just doesn’t cut I’m afraid.
You’re entitled to your opinion though.
I just don’t agree with your logic.
"
And you cut the rest of my post off.
If we don’t take sensible precautions & allow a natural immunity to develop, the collateral damage long term from locking down on and off again for months/years will be catastrophic. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
When in history has herd immunity been achieved without a vaccine?
Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population.
"....Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population..."
---------------------------
And that's a good reason to NOT use the Herd Immunity Approach.
Except the bubonic plague killed 1 in 3
"..Except the bubonic plague killed 1 in 3.."
-----------------
And 1 in 3 in a very high percentage.
That's about 21.5 million of the current British population.
Covid doesn’t kill 1 in 3. That’s the point. Herd immunity will probably lead to 600,000 dead with this virus. Yeah, scary.
But, this pales when you consider how many millions will die long term if current strategy continues to be employed.
"...Covid doesn’t kill 1 in 3. That’s the point. Herd immunity will probably lead to 600,000 dead with this virus. Yeah, scary...."
-----------------
I didn't say Covid kills 1 in 3, I just pointed out why Herd Immunity should not be an option.
And like you say: Herd immunity could potentially lead to 600,000 covid deaths.
Glad you accept that 600,000 deaths is scary.
And is the Covid Deaths the only thing we need to be concerned about??
No, because we also need to remember that death is not the only consequence of covid. Some of those who recover end of up suffering from ‘Long Tail Covid’ and end up with long term health problems which will require treatment. This does not just affect the old and vulnerable, it affects the young and healthy as well.
These ‘Long Covid’ sufferers will then need NHS treatment..... which will require more time and resources from the NHS......which will then lead to longer waiting lists........which will then lead to more people being undiagnosed for other illness........which will lead to even more people dying due to lack of treatment.
So you can see the devastating chain-of-events that will occur if we just sit back and allow the virus to spiral out of control in the name of Herd Immunity. The direct and indirect covid deaths will far exceed the 600,000 which you confess is scary enough.
No action we take now will cause the virus to disappear overnight, but any action taken to reduce the spread will save lives and our health system. The worst decision to make - is to do nothing at all.
The long Covid argument just doesn’t cut I’m afraid.
You’re entitled to your opinion though.
I just don’t agree with your logic.
"
So what do you propose to do with the people that suffer symptoms for months/the rest of their lives? |
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"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
When in history has herd immunity been achieved without a vaccine?
Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population.
"....Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population..."
---------------------------
And that's a good reason to NOT use the Herd Immunity Approach.
Except the bubonic plague killed 1 in 3
"..Except the bubonic plague killed 1 in 3.."
-----------------
And 1 in 3 in a very high percentage.
That's about 21.5 million of the current British population.
Covid doesn’t kill 1 in 3. That’s the point. Herd immunity will probably lead to 600,000 dead with this virus. Yeah, scary.
But, this pales when you consider how many millions will die long term if current strategy continues to be employed.
"...Covid doesn’t kill 1 in 3. That’s the point. Herd immunity will probably lead to 600,000 dead with this virus. Yeah, scary...."
-----------------
I didn't say Covid kills 1 in 3, I just pointed out why Herd Immunity should not be an option.
And like you say: Herd immunity could potentially lead to 600,000 covid deaths.
Glad you accept that 600,000 deaths is scary.
And is the Covid Deaths the only thing we need to be concerned about??
No, because we also need to remember that death is not the only consequence of covid. Some of those who recover end of up suffering from ‘Long Tail Covid’ and end up with long term health problems which will require treatment. This does not just affect the old and vulnerable, it affects the young and healthy as well.
These ‘Long Covid’ sufferers will then need NHS treatment..... which will require more time and resources from the NHS......which will then lead to longer waiting lists........which will then lead to more people being undiagnosed for other illness........which will lead to even more people dying due to lack of treatment.
So you can see the devastating chain-of-events that will occur if we just sit back and allow the virus to spiral out of control in the name of Herd Immunity. The direct and indirect covid deaths will far exceed the 600,000 which you confess is scary enough.
No action we take now will cause the virus to disappear overnight, but any action taken to reduce the spread will save lives and our health system. The worst decision to make - is to do nothing at all.
The long Covid argument just doesn’t cut I’m afraid.
You’re entitled to your opinion though.
I just don’t agree with your logic.
So what do you propose to do with the people that suffer symptoms for months/the rest of their lives?"
Have a word with yourself.
You’ve nearly 70 million people here. You expect to curtail all those people’s freedoms for ever more because tens of thousands, or several hundred thousand may have enduring symptoms.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
When in history has herd immunity been achieved without a vaccine?
Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population.
"....Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population..."
---------------------------
And that's a good reason to NOT use the Herd Immunity Approach.
Except the bubonic plague killed 1 in 3
"..Except the bubonic plague killed 1 in 3.."
-----------------
And 1 in 3 in a very high percentage.
That's about 21.5 million of the current British population.
Covid doesn’t kill 1 in 3. That’s the point. Herd immunity will probably lead to 600,000 dead with this virus. Yeah, scary.
But, this pales when you consider how many millions will die long term if current strategy continues to be employed.
"...Covid doesn’t kill 1 in 3. That’s the point. Herd immunity will probably lead to 600,000 dead with this virus. Yeah, scary...."
-----------------
I didn't say Covid kills 1 in 3, I just pointed out why Herd Immunity should not be an option.
And like you say: Herd immunity could potentially lead to 600,000 covid deaths.
Glad you accept that 600,000 deaths is scary.
And is the Covid Deaths the only thing we need to be concerned about??
No, because we also need to remember that death is not the only consequence of covid. Some of those who recover end of up suffering from ‘Long Tail Covid’ and end up with long term health problems which will require treatment. This does not just affect the old and vulnerable, it affects the young and healthy as well.
These ‘Long Covid’ sufferers will then need NHS treatment..... which will require more time and resources from the NHS......which will then lead to longer waiting lists........which will then lead to more people being undiagnosed for other illness........which will lead to even more people dying due to lack of treatment.
So you can see the devastating chain-of-events that will occur if we just sit back and allow the virus to spiral out of control in the name of Herd Immunity. The direct and indirect covid deaths will far exceed the 600,000 which you confess is scary enough.
No action we take now will cause the virus to disappear overnight, but any action taken to reduce the spread will save lives and our health system. The worst decision to make - is to do nothing at all.
The long Covid argument just doesn’t cut I’m afraid.
You’re entitled to your opinion though.
I just don’t agree with your logic.
So what do you propose to do with the people that suffer symptoms for months/the rest of their lives?
Have a word with yourself.
You’ve nearly 70 million people here. You expect to curtail all those people’s freedoms for ever more because tens of thousands, or several hundred thousand may have enduring symptoms.."
So I ask again, what do you propose to do with the people that have long term health conditions due to Covid exposure? |
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By *ab jamesMan
over a year ago
ribble valley |
"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
When in history has herd immunity been achieved without a vaccine?
Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population.
"....Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population..."
---------------------------
And that's a good reason to NOT use the Herd Immunity Approach.
Except the bubonic plague killed 1 in 3
"..Except the bubonic plague killed 1 in 3.."
-----------------
And 1 in 3 in a very high percentage.
That's about 21.5 million of the current British population.
Covid doesn’t kill 1 in 3. That’s the point. Herd immunity will probably lead to 600,000 dead with this virus. Yeah, scary.
But, this pales when you consider how many millions will die long term if current strategy continues to be employed.
"...Covid doesn’t kill 1 in 3. That’s the point. Herd immunity will probably lead to 600,000 dead with this virus. Yeah, scary...."
-----------------
I didn't say Covid kills 1 in 3, I just pointed out why Herd Immunity should not be an option.
And like you say: Herd immunity could potentially lead to 600,000 covid deaths.
Glad you accept that 600,000 deaths is scary.
And is the Covid Deaths the only thing we need to be concerned about??
No, because we also need to remember that death is not the only consequence of covid. Some of those who recover end of up suffering from ‘Long Tail Covid’ and end up with long term health problems which will require treatment. This does not just affect the old and vulnerable, it affects the young and healthy as well.
These ‘Long Covid’ sufferers will then need NHS treatment..... which will require more time and resources from the NHS......which will then lead to longer waiting lists........which will then lead to more people being undiagnosed for other illness........which will lead to even more people dying due to lack of treatment.
So you can see the devastating chain-of-events that will occur if we just sit back and allow the virus to spiral out of control in the name of Herd Immunity. The direct and indirect covid deaths will far exceed the 600,000 which you confess is scary enough.
No action we take now will cause the virus to disappear overnight, but any action taken to reduce the spread will save lives and our health system. The worst decision to make - is to do nothing at all.
The long Covid argument just doesn’t cut I’m afraid.
You’re entitled to your opinion though.
I just don’t agree with your logic.
So what do you propose to do with the people that suffer symptoms for months/the rest of their lives?
Have a word with yourself.
You’ve nearly 70 million people here. You expect to curtail all those people’s freedoms for ever more because tens of thousands, or several hundred thousand may have enduring symptoms.."
And if we don't get immunity, these life's have been snuffed out for nothing. Immunity isn't guaranteed at all. Then people can catch it again and again until lung function problems are the norm. Think of all the great vaccines that have helped humanity. We can beat covid. But not by herd immunity. Yes economies will suffer, yes people will die, but we will get past it. |
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"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
When in history has herd immunity been achieved without a vaccine?
Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population.
"....Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population..."
---------------------------
And that's a good reason to NOT use the Herd Immunity Approach.
Except the bubonic plague killed 1 in 3
"..Except the bubonic plague killed 1 in 3.."
-----------------
And 1 in 3 in a very high percentage.
That's about 21.5 million of the current British population.
Covid doesn’t kill 1 in 3. That’s the point. Herd immunity will probably lead to 600,000 dead with this virus. Yeah, scary.
But, this pales when you consider how many millions will die long term if current strategy continues to be employed.
"...Covid doesn’t kill 1 in 3. That’s the point. Herd immunity will probably lead to 600,000 dead with this virus. Yeah, scary...."
-----------------
I didn't say Covid kills 1 in 3, I just pointed out why Herd Immunity should not be an option.
And like you say: Herd immunity could potentially lead to 600,000 covid deaths.
Glad you accept that 600,000 deaths is scary.
And is the Covid Deaths the only thing we need to be concerned about??
No, because we also need to remember that death is not the only consequence of covid. Some of those who recover end of up suffering from ‘Long Tail Covid’ and end up with long term health problems which will require treatment. This does not just affect the old and vulnerable, it affects the young and healthy as well.
These ‘Long Covid’ sufferers will then need NHS treatment..... which will require more time and resources from the NHS......which will then lead to longer waiting lists........which will then lead to more people being undiagnosed for other illness........which will lead to even more people dying due to lack of treatment.
So you can see the devastating chain-of-events that will occur if we just sit back and allow the virus to spiral out of control in the name of Herd Immunity. The direct and indirect covid deaths will far exceed the 600,000 which you confess is scary enough.
No action we take now will cause the virus to disappear overnight, but any action taken to reduce the spread will save lives and our health system. The worst decision to make - is to do nothing at all.
The long Covid argument just doesn’t cut I’m afraid.
You’re entitled to your opinion though.
I just don’t agree with your logic.
So what do you propose to do with the people that suffer symptoms for months/the rest of their lives?
Have a word with yourself.
You’ve nearly 70 million people here. You expect to curtail all those people’s freedoms for ever more because tens of thousands, or several hundred thousand may have enduring symptoms..
So I ask again, what do you propose to do with the people that have long term health conditions due to Covid exposure?"
They’ll get the help they need.
All sense of perspective has been lost here. A proportionate reaction to the situation is what’s needed.
At the moment we have a completely disproportionate reaction to the level of threat we face.
It’s bonkers.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The national lockdown slowed the spread thats a fact. But it didn't eliminate it. A two week lockdown if it was totally enforced might slow the spread again. But how will it be enforced ? People are getting fed up of not socialising, loosing jobs income etc and add that to a life of boredom at home. So in reality a 2 or 3 week lockdown probably won't slow the spreador even slow it down. Any slowdown will be very small as people continue to socialise underground ie at other peoples houses or any venue thats not being watched or regulated etc. Add that to the weather turning colder and people spending more time indoors together and the recipe is ripe for it spreading even faster during a 2 or 3 week lockdown as people have more freedom to spend time with friends family etc recent events of people congregating after hours in town and city centres etc have proven that. Where there is a will to mix and socialise the people will find a way.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
When in history has herd immunity been achieved without a vaccine?
Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population.
"....Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population..."
---------------------------
And that's a good reason to NOT use the Herd Immunity Approach.
Except the bubonic plague killed 1 in 3
"..Except the bubonic plague killed 1 in 3.."
-----------------
And 1 in 3 in a very high percentage.
That's about 21.5 million of the current British population.
Covid doesn’t kill 1 in 3. That’s the point. Herd immunity will probably lead to 600,000 dead with this virus. Yeah, scary.
But, this pales when you consider how many millions will die long term if current strategy continues to be employed.
"...Covid doesn’t kill 1 in 3. That’s the point. Herd immunity will probably lead to 600,000 dead with this virus. Yeah, scary...."
-----------------
I didn't say Covid kills 1 in 3, I just pointed out why Herd Immunity should not be an option.
And like you say: Herd immunity could potentially lead to 600,000 covid deaths.
Glad you accept that 600,000 deaths is scary.
And is the Covid Deaths the only thing we need to be concerned about??
No, because we also need to remember that death is not the only consequence of covid. Some of those who recover end of up suffering from ‘Long Tail Covid’ and end up with long term health problems which will require treatment. This does not just affect the old and vulnerable, it affects the young and healthy as well.
These ‘Long Covid’ sufferers will then need NHS treatment..... which will require more time and resources from the NHS......which will then lead to longer waiting lists........which will then lead to more people being undiagnosed for other illness........which will lead to even more people dying due to lack of treatment.
So you can see the devastating chain-of-events that will occur if we just sit back and allow the virus to spiral out of control in the name of Herd Immunity. The direct and indirect covid deaths will far exceed the 600,000 which you confess is scary enough.
No action we take now will cause the virus to disappear overnight, but any action taken to reduce the spread will save lives and our health system. The worst decision to make - is to do nothing at all.
The long Covid argument just doesn’t cut I’m afraid.
You’re entitled to your opinion though.
I just don’t agree with your logic.
So what do you propose to do with the people that suffer symptoms for months/the rest of their lives?
Have a word with yourself.
You’ve nearly 70 million people here. You expect to curtail all those people’s freedoms for ever more because tens of thousands, or several hundred thousand may have enduring symptoms..
So I ask again, what do you propose to do with the people that have long term health conditions due to Covid exposure?
They’ll get the help they need.
All sense of perspective has been lost here. A proportionate reaction to the situation is what’s needed.
At the moment we have a completely disproportionate reaction to the level of threat we face.
It’s bonkers.
"
You have just stated that there could be several hundred thousand people with long term conditions (which would be on top of all the other illnesses we get normally) and you think that we can just treat them all? Have you actually looked at the strain the NHS is under in the last few decades without Covid? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We don't let ' nature do what nature will do ' when a child is showing symptoms of meningitis, respect that may not be what the poster means but it reads as callous..
When plan a is clearly not working the right thing to do is actually have a plan b rather than tinker with what is not working, till we have done that I think the government should not or would not allow the elderly and vulnerable to be locked up or die in the tens of thousands whilst those yet not at that point get on with their lives..
The paper by the two scientific advisors as reported in the FT gives a figure of between 29-49% possible less deaths in January if we have a two week circuit break later this month..
Perhaps try that and sort the mess that is this governments track and trace out.."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this...
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
Is there yet any evidence that herd immunity for this virus is even achievable?
Do people develop immunity? If so for how long?are they still able to spread the virus to others? Do they have long term health consequences?
Until there is any evidence for those questions the aspirational "herd immunity" is just a pipe dream like an effective vaccine. So we should be very cautious about pinning our hopes on that as our only strategy.
You can try & question it all you like. Herd immunity is the only way this will end folks.
I will ask you yet again, what percentage of the population would need to be infected?
However many it needs.
So you haven’t got a clue? here are some basic maths for you, we will probably need 50 million people in the uk to be infected, at 100,000 infections a week it would take approximately 10 years ,
Where are you getting this 100,000 from?
Ok, would you prefer 200,000 infections a week or 30,000 a day? that would take 5 years?
Where are you getting these random figures from?
Random? The population of the uk is 67 million, we need at least 50 million to be infected for herd immunity to work ? You quoted ‘how many it needs’ , do the maths and tell me how many people need to be infected in a year for herd immunity to be effective ?
And you don’t think 50 million can be infected in a year?
1 million a week? 150,000 a day? Probably, do you think the NHS can cope with that
Course it can. Most won’t need treatment remember.
How many are in hospital compared with the current infection rate?
You seem to know don’t you, so I’m sure you’ll tell me.
Keep your head buried in the sand to the reality of what needs to happen.
I’m off for lunch.
"
But as myself and others have pointed out on this thread, her immunity likely cannot be achieved due to the indications that antibodies may not last a significant amount of time, and due to the high levels of genetic mutation that occur within all coronaviruses.
Even attempting herd immunity risks increased death rates, a struggling NHS during flu season and the possibility of mutations to the COVID 19 genome which may result in multiple strains which cannot be dealt with using a singular vaccine. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The national lockdown slowed the spread thats a fact. But it didn't eliminate it. A two week lockdown if it was totally enforced might slow the spread again. But how will it be enforced ? People are getting fed up of not socialising, loosing jobs income etc and add that to a life of boredom at home. So in reality a 2 or 3 week lockdown probably won't slow the spreador even slow it down. Any slowdown will be very small as people continue to socialise underground ie at other peoples houses or any venue thats not being watched or regulated etc. Add that to the weather turning colder and people spending more time indoors together and the recipe is ripe for it spreading even faster during a 2 or 3 week lockdown as people have more freedom to spend time with friends family etc recent events of people congregating after hours in town and city centres etc have proven that. Where there is a will to mix and socialise the people will find a way.."
Personally I'd suggest a full lockdown for 3-4 weeks if I had power.
With the promise that if cases become manageable we can ease some things open for Christmas.
Using this time to devolve power to local authorities and to legislate correct powers for the police so that as of Christmas you can have crowd control in city centres.
I'd suggest restricted alcohol serving times. 5pm to 9pm, with additional police deployed in this time and the 2 hours after to ensure we can encourage members of the public rapidly vacate town and city centres.
Heavy financial fines need to be implemented for those attending underground events. Nudge theory needs to be applied, ensuring those attending outdoor and indoor parties are caught and prosecuted and that this is published widely to get the memo across. |
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"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this...
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
Is there yet any evidence that herd immunity for this virus is even achievable?
Do people develop immunity? If so for how long?are they still able to spread the virus to others? Do they have long term health consequences?
Until there is any evidence for those questions the aspirational "herd immunity" is just a pipe dream like an effective vaccine. So we should be very cautious about pinning our hopes on that as our only strategy.
You can try & question it all you like. Herd immunity is the only way this will end folks.
I will ask you yet again, what percentage of the population would need to be infected?
However many it needs.
So you haven’t got a clue? here are some basic maths for you, we will probably need 50 million people in the uk to be infected, at 100,000 infections a week it would take approximately 10 years ,
Where are you getting this 100,000 from?
Ok, would you prefer 200,000 infections a week or 30,000 a day? that would take 5 years?
Where are you getting these random figures from?
Random? The population of the uk is 67 million, we need at least 50 million to be infected for herd immunity to work ? You quoted ‘how many it needs’ , do the maths and tell me how many people need to be infected in a year for herd immunity to be effective ?
And you don’t think 50 million can be infected in a year?
1 million a week? 150,000 a day? Probably, do you think the NHS can cope with that
Course it can. Most won’t need treatment remember.
How many are in hospital compared with the current infection rate?
You seem to know don’t you, so I’m sure you’ll tell me.
Keep your head buried in the sand to the reality of what needs to happen.
I’m off for lunch.
But as myself and others have pointed out on this thread, her immunity likely cannot be achieved due to the indications that antibodies may not last a significant amount of time, and due to the high levels of genetic mutation that occur within all coronaviruses.
Even attempting herd immunity risks increased death rates, a struggling NHS during flu season and the possibility of mutations to the COVID 19 genome which may result in multiple strains which cannot be dealt with using a singular vaccine."
What a nonsense.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The thought of "Herd Immunity" is not really an option... There have bow been two high profile cases of re-infection. The first had a slight variation of the virus and the second, more recently, has been tested positive for exactly the same strain as his first infection. The first time he had mild symptoms and this time he has more severe symptoms.
So it is clear that if you have had it you are not immune to catching it again...
I think that if we all follow the basics then things will improve, but partying in the streets in protest is not exactly the way forward and just highlights some of the ignorance surrounding this...
Again, one or a handful of people in millions. Get some perspective here.
Herd immunity is the ONLY way a pandemic ends.
Is there yet any evidence that herd immunity for this virus is even achievable?
Do people develop immunity? If so for how long?are they still able to spread the virus to others? Do they have long term health consequences?
Until there is any evidence for those questions the aspirational "herd immunity" is just a pipe dream like an effective vaccine. So we should be very cautious about pinning our hopes on that as our only strategy.
You can try & question it all you like. Herd immunity is the only way this will end folks.
I will ask you yet again, what percentage of the population would need to be infected?
However many it needs.
So you haven’t got a clue? here are some basic maths for you, we will probably need 50 million people in the uk to be infected, at 100,000 infections a week it would take approximately 10 years ,
Where are you getting this 100,000 from?
Ok, would you prefer 200,000 infections a week or 30,000 a day? that would take 5 years?
Where are you getting these random figures from?
Random? The population of the uk is 67 million, we need at least 50 million to be infected for herd immunity to work ? You quoted ‘how many it needs’ , do the maths and tell me how many people need to be infected in a year for herd immunity to be effective ?
And you don’t think 50 million can be infected in a year?
1 million a week? 150,000 a day? Probably, do you think the NHS can cope with that
Course it can. Most won’t need treatment remember.
How many are in hospital compared with the current infection rate?
You seem to know don’t you, so I’m sure you’ll tell me.
Keep your head buried in the sand to the reality of what needs to happen.
I’m off for lunch.
But as myself and others have pointed out on this thread, her immunity likely cannot be achieved due to the indications that antibodies may not last a significant amount of time, and due to the high levels of genetic mutation that occur within all coronaviruses.
Even attempting herd immunity risks increased death rates, a struggling NHS during flu season and the possibility of mutations to the COVID 19 genome which may result in multiple strains which cannot be dealt with using a singular vaccine.
What a nonsense.
"
I would go and educate yourself about viral mutations. Every single infection, asymptomatic or not is a chance for the virus to mutate. This could lead to it weakening, or it could lead to it becoming as lethal as something like Ebola. Kicker is, you won't even know till it's too late. |
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By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
When in history has herd immunity been achieved without a vaccine?
Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population.
"....Europe pretty much did achieve herd immunity for bubonic plague. Of course it took hundreds of years and it killed about half the population..."
---------------------------
And that's a good reason to NOT use the Herd Immunity Approach.
Except the bubonic plague killed 1 in 3
"..Except the bubonic plague killed 1 in 3.."
-----------------
And 1 in 3 in a very high percentage.
That's about 21.5 million of the current British population.
Covid doesn’t kill 1 in 3. That’s the point. Herd immunity will probably lead to 600,000 dead with this virus. Yeah, scary.
But, this pales when you consider how many millions will die long term if current strategy continues to be employed.
"...Covid doesn’t kill 1 in 3. That’s the point. Herd immunity will probably lead to 600,000 dead with this virus. Yeah, scary...."
-----------------
I didn't say Covid kills 1 in 3, I just pointed out why Herd Immunity should not be an option.
And like you say: Herd immunity could potentially lead to 600,000 covid deaths.
Glad you accept that 600,000 deaths is scary.
And is the Covid Deaths the only thing we need to be concerned about??
No, because we also need to remember that death is not the only consequence of covid. Some of those who recover end of up suffering from ‘Long Tail Covid’ and end up with long term health problems which will require treatment. This does not just affect the old and vulnerable, it affects the young and healthy as well.
These ‘Long Covid’ sufferers will then need NHS treatment..... which will require more time and resources from the NHS......which will then lead to longer waiting lists........which will then lead to more people being undiagnosed for other illness........which will lead to even more people dying due to lack of treatment.
So you can see the devastating chain-of-events that will occur if we just sit back and allow the virus to spiral out of control in the name of Herd Immunity. The direct and indirect covid deaths will far exceed the 600,000 which you confess is scary enough.
No action we take now will cause the virus to disappear overnight, but any action taken to reduce the spread will save lives and our health system. The worst decision to make - is to do nothing at all.
The long Covid argument just doesn’t cut I’m afraid.
You’re entitled to your opinion though.
I just don’t agree with your logic.
"
"...The long Covid argument just doesn’t cut I’m afraid..."
-------------------------
It doesn't cut for you, but that doesn't change the realities about Long Covid.
Long term lockdown is not good for the economy, just as herd immunity is not good for public health.
The WHO does not recommend the Herd Immunity Strategy.
Recently Dr Nabarro who is WHO Special Envoy for the COVID-19 pandemic said:
"Virus run wild will lead to lots of deaths as well as debilitating long-Covid among younger people." |
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"When the place with the highest infection rates has people gathering in massive crowds to party in the streets?
‘Circuit break’ ?
Or
Just let nature take its course?
Frankly, yes, let nature do what nature will do.
It will happen anyway,sooner or later. People are fed up. We're tired of being preached at, threatened, deprived of income & liberty while the politicians and the favoured few sit there with their guaranteed incomes, secure jobs and gold plated pensions.
Impact of covid on the average politician : zero
Impact of covid on the average worker : Loss of income, debt, stress
Impact of covid on the low paid/young : Unemployment, debt, homelessness, stress, loss of opportunity
Why? Not because OF the virus, because of our futile attempts to do the impossible.
We cannot keep on shutting down the country every few weeks. They say a short lockdown buys 28 days... what happens then? It all starts again buy yet more people are unemployed, more businesses bankrupt - AND THE VIRUS IS STILL HERE!
If you want to stop it you need to provide a way for people to know whether they have it or not - every day. That means at home, self administered rapid indicative testing. That will solve this problem, lockdowns won't."
.
Couldn’t have said it better myself!  |
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"When the place with the highest infection rates has people gathering in massive crowds to party in the streets?
‘Circuit break’ ?
Or
Just let nature take its course?
Frankly, yes, let nature do what nature will do.
It will happen anyway,sooner or later. People are fed up. We're tired of being preached at, threatened, deprived of income & liberty while the politicians and the favoured few sit there with their guaranteed incomes, secure jobs and gold plated pensions.
Impact of covid on the average politician : zero
Impact of covid on the average worker : Loss of income, debt, stress
Impact of covid on the low paid/young : Unemployment, debt, homelessness, stress, loss of opportunity
Why? Not because OF the virus, because of our futile attempts to do the impossible.
We cannot keep on shutting down the country every few weeks. They say a short lockdown buys 28 days... what happens then? It all starts again buy yet more people are unemployed, more businesses bankrupt - AND THE VIRUS IS STILL HERE!
If you want to stop it you need to provide a way for people to know whether they have it or not - every day. That means at home, self administered rapid indicative testing. That will solve this problem, lockdowns won't..
Couldn’t have said it better myself! "
Or we could all treat each other as if we have it, wash our hands, wear a face covering and social distance but that's too much for some ... |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"Under just giving up and going for herd immunity, people do realize it would swamp all hospitals very quickly. Then no hospital care for anything at all?
No operations, no cancer care, no emergency ops etc. "
Many do not think of this as to selfish |
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"It’s blindingly obvious that the only way out of this is herd immunity.
People need to stop burying their heads in the sand & wake up to reality.
What percentage of the population need to be infected for herd immunity to work? "
Enough for businesses to close and people to go out of work, quicker than having short lockdowns |
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"When the place with the highest infection rates has people gathering in massive crowds to party in the streets?
‘Circuit break’ ?
Or
Just let nature take its course?
Frankly, yes, let nature do what nature will do.
It will happen anyway,sooner or later. People are fed up. We're tired of being preached at, threatened, deprived of income & liberty while the politicians and the favoured few sit there with their guaranteed incomes, secure jobs and gold plated pensions.
Impact of covid on the average politician : zero
Impact of covid on the average worker : Loss of income, debt, stress
Impact of covid on the low paid/young : Unemployment, debt, homelessness, stress, loss of opportunity
Why? Not because OF the virus, because of our futile attempts to do the impossible.
We cannot keep on shutting down the country every few weeks. They say a short lockdown buys 28 days... what happens then? It all starts again buy yet more people are unemployed, more businesses bankrupt - AND THE VIRUS IS STILL HERE!
If you want to stop it you need to provide a way for people to know whether they have it or not - every day. That means at home, self administered rapid indicative testing. That will solve this problem, lockdowns won't..
Couldn’t have said it better myself!
Or we could all treat each other as if we have it, wash our hands, wear a face covering and social distance but that's too much for some ..."
I admire your patience and fortitude |
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The right time to take extreme measures once you know they are needed is immediately. We dithered in March and upto 20,000 more lives were lost than was necessary. If we hadn't lockeddown, the death toll would have been much higher. Some people are behaving as if that lockdown didn't save many of our lives.
We didn't get testing and tracing ready for the current problems and so we should do this. A short lockdown will reduce numbers whilst we get test and tracing working properly. The longer we put it off, the very much longer the lockdown should have to be to catch up and the greater the impact on businesses and the economy.
The Tiers are another fudge. |
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