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Philosophy - I know it's not a solution

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By *rotic desires OP   Woman  over a year ago

Here and there

In the animal kingdom some species will protect their more vulnerable members like the young, the elderly and the sick. Other species will oust them. In some instances, the elderly and sick may even leave their community to die alone.

Some animals, like musk ox and dolphins, defend their vulnerable members by forming circles around them when danger threatens, some will stampede (bison); yet wolves have been known to expel and even kill vulnerable and sick members of their pack to better their chances of survival under severe conditions.

There are also lots of wild animals who practice social distancing to avoid getting sick, in fact some social species will expel infected members within their community, for example honeybees and chimpanzees.

All in the eyes of the survival of the species.

We, Homo sapiens – “wise man” are supposedly an “intelligent” species. Yet we are destroying our planet by pollution, aiding in the extermination of other species and killing each other through wars.

I believe this process is called evolution – our gradual development over time, the process by which we adapt and survive. It encompasses survival of the fittest and natural selection – and the one thing none of us can avoid as part of life – Death.

I would consider myself compassionate and kind, with a social conscience – not only for the vulnerable and the elderly, but also for the rest of humanity! and I am living according to the guidelines/legislation implemented by the Irish government, social distancing, hand washing/sanitising, wearing face coverings, minimising contacts (including not meeting!) etc even though I personally believe that the measures imposed are disproportionate to the risk associated with Covid 19. (I am more familiar with the measures implemented by the Irish government than the UK government, and am more familiar with the situation in the HSE than the NHS.) And no, I am not a believer in conspiracy theories or a New World Order etc…but I am a firm believer in democracy, I am pro-choice and I value my basic human rights to speak freely, move freely and make decisions in respect of what I want to put into my body as per the constitution, and I respect that others have the same rights as I do. Yet my movements, by law, have been restricted, and as per my social conscience I am abiding by these laws.

I would like to elaborate on social conscience: I hear and read on plenty of different platforms, that it is our moral duty to shield and protect the elderly and vulnerable from the virus. I definitely agree…I also believe that those who are indirectly affected by the “pandemic”, and let’s face it, that is ALL of us, have a right to be protected too – because the effects of this virus and the measures taken to contain it, are affecting ALL of us, the elderly, immuno-suppressed and those in full physical health of all ages. The indirect effects of Covid 19 we are seeing/experiencing are also to do with economics, not only health, mental and physical – be that your mental health was already affected before the outbreak and has been compounded or that your mental health has started deteriorating since the start of the outbreak (for whatever reason) or be that the effect on your physical health because you are awaiting testing for cancer screening are in the midst of cancer treatment, operations which have been postponed etc to name but a very, very few! We are ALL vulnerable, the elderly, disabled and immuno-suppressed have the misfortune of being additionally vulnerable, and obviously the group hit hardest by death due to the virus or with the virus (and, yes, I believe there is a difference, whether you die of Covid or with Covid)! Unfortunately, the one thing that life has taught me is… that it is not fair!

The effects of the economic down-turn due to lockdowns etc, which not only has an effect on the local and national economy (with certain industries being entirely shut down and hit harder than others, job losses, leading to increased local and national poverty, possibly homelessness, increased violence in the home due to working at home etc) but on the economy worldwide – where yet again the effects are most felt in the most vulnerable of societies – those living in third world countries, living in poverty with little or no access to food or health care (but what the fuck do we care about them, right, they’re a side effect of what’s happening on a national level here on the other side of the world, whereby we have our families, friends, loved ones at home to worry about, never mind ourselves?! – spoken in a sarcastic tone!).

So the answer is, shut down, lock down, in order to on a national level “protect the elderly and vulnerable”, keep the NHS or HSE (in Ireland) under as little strain as possible, so they can look after their patients as best they can, particularly now, as flu season has approached and hospitals will be rampant with the usual non-Covid related health issues and fuck the follow on effect this has on, not only other health related issues among our own community but to other nations worldwide (and in fairness “we” did have 6 months to get prepared for the winter months)…???

Dr. David Nabarro, working for the WHO, clearly stated a couple of days ago that the WHO believes lockdowns are absolutely the very last measure to be taken in the situation we are in, by any leader, and only in order to allow a country to “re-group and re-organise and rebalance resources, protect the health care workers who are exhausted” and that “lockdowns have only one consequence and that is making poor people an awful lot poorer”.

Yet this seems to be a strategy that is applied and constantly threatened by our governments, increasing stress and fear levels.

There was an excellent article in BBC Future in May (which I cannot find anymore but there’s plenty out there on deaths not caused by Covid but still Covid related) with the estimated figures of some of the non-related Covid 19 deaths to come if economies don’t pick up again and hospitals get back to where they were at. According to this article oncologists in the UK had estimated an additional 60,000 deaths in the UK caused by the lack of cancer screening, treatments postponed etc – but we have to protect the elderly and the vulnerable from Covid 19, right (The UK has had 43,000ish Covid related deaths to date?).

Another very recent article I read (I have to admit I would need to look for the source, but will do so, if anyone would like proof) Oxfam stated that due to cuts in funding/donations, whereby food is not available to those who rely on daily food rations, an ADDITIONAL 10,000-12,000 people are starving TO DEATH DAILY! To be fair, I wouldn’t need proof of such an article either, because in an economic crisis, it will more than likely be the most vulnerable who suffer and ultimately poverty and starvation would be on the increase. But, yet again, fuck those additional deaths as we have to protect our national health system, hospitals and the elderly and vulnerable?

And, pray tell, our young, whom I’m sure we also want to protect and nourish, because let’s face it, they are our future - our doctors, nurses, dentists, teachers, accountants, solicitors etc and our pension (a lot of whom are being distance trained, where possible…) – what state do we want to leave our country in for them?

A lot of what I am reading and hearing, particularly on these Forums here, is to protect the elderly and vulnerable! We are ALL vulnerable, each and every one of us, worldwide!!! In more ways than one!!! Not only to Covid 19, which for the killer virus it is declared to be has an extremely high survival rate! Now give me a pandemic of Ebola, smallpox or the like, and I will crawl into my home, never to be seen again (probably because I have died, along with the rest of the world!).

My question here is: Who has the right to decide who lives or dies? Because effectively our governments are making those decisions over life and death. But we are the ones who have voted them in – or not, as the case may be…

Of course, I understand that politically speaking, each government in place is responsible for the country they are governing, and needs to put legislation and guidelines in place as best they can in order to “protect” the people of their nation and act in their best interest – and I would like to remind that Covid 19 isn’t the only problem which poses a threat to public health. But does this government or any other not also have a moral obligation to protect anyone outside of their constituency and nation, worldwide, just like we each as individuals, as is constantly preached all around us, have moral obligations to protect each other and look out for each other, in other words the elderly and vulnerable, but in reality, as we are all vulnerable, some just more than others, we have to all look out for each other and ourselves?

I don’t have solutions unfortunately, I wish I did, and I know there will never be a one-fits-all solution. Unfortunately maintaining public health always comes at a cost. Because the harsh reality is that receiving medical care is still a business transaction.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Anyone have an Executive summary of that wall of text?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Anyone have an Executive summary of that wall of text? "

I've read the whole thing, and the answer is, no not really. It's a wall of information that I can't really figure out what is being asked, apart from a small question about whether a government has the right to balance life and death in the populus given that some didn't elect them.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

When I see the shouty part...i just give up reading a copy and paste job...

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By *incskittenWoman  over a year ago

Nottingham

[Removed by poster at 14/10/20 15:33:12]

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By *ionelhutzMan  over a year ago

liverpool


"Anyone have an Executive summary of that wall of text? "

Nah I stopped at the 1st paragraph.

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By *hillingCouple  over a year ago

Near Chester

[F here] Thanks for this post. I think the tl:dr is ... (OP correct me if I'm wrong) ... that we should just get on with life. Personally I think people should make their own decisions, based on the information that science and (to a much lesser extent) the government provide, having weighed up the pros and cons of the various options.

I agree that the current actions and rules/guidelines are 'disproportionate to the risk associated with Covid 19'. I am 61 and tbh I would rather the world got back to normal and I get the damn thing and die than we carry on like this.

My view is, let it rip. There are too many bad consequences for everybody else if we continue with this ridiculous nanny-ing of the people. The people should decide.

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By *atelotmanMan  over a year ago

Chatham

I didnt even read it, when I saw who the OP was.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Anyone have an Executive summary of that wall of text? "

Sorry didnt even read half of it lost my mind after first half

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"[F here] Thanks for this post. I think the tl:dr is ... (OP correct me if I'm wrong) ... that we should just get on with life. Personally I think people should make their own decisions, based on the information that science and (to a much lesser extent) the government provide, having weighed up the pros and cons of the various options.

I agree that the current actions and rules/guidelines are 'disproportionate to the risk associated with Covid 19'. I am 61 and tbh I would rather the world got back to normal and I get the damn thing and die than we carry on like this.

My view is, let it rip. There are too many bad consequences for everybody else if we continue with this ridiculous nanny-ing of the people. The people should decide."

Sorry could you break that down into about 10 lines. Jeez. My mind got dizzy

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