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Liverpool nightingale
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As I understand it Nightingales are only designed to take patients who are in recovery to free up hospital wards. They are not intended to provide front line emergency care, largely because they can’t be staffed to do so. |
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By *dsindyTV/TS
over a year ago
East Lancashire |
As has been pointed out, staffing is the issue. No point building extra capacity when we dont have the staff for what capacity we currently have.
A white elephant for the gvmt to point to and say "look, we are on top of it". |
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"As has been pointed out, staffing is the issue. No point building extra capacity when we dont have the staff for what capacity we currently have.
A white elephant for the gvmt to point to and say "look, we are on top of it"."
Always said myself that these are nothing more than studios for walk through shots that can be used on the news. More wasted money as it stands. |
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"As has been pointed out, staffing is the issue. No point building extra capacity when we dont have the staff for what capacity we currently have.
A white elephant for the gvmt to point to and say "look, we are on top of it"."
If necessary military could provide a significant number of suitable staff. As I said above they are designed for patients in recovery not those requiring critical care. |
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By *dsindyTV/TS
over a year ago
East Lancashire |
"As has been pointed out, staffing is the issue. No point building extra capacity when we dont have the staff for what capacity we currently have.
A white elephant for the gvmt to point to and say "look, we are on top of it".
If necessary military could provide a significant number of suitable staff. As I said above they are designed for patients in recovery not those requiring critical care."
Nice idea, in practice not applicable....the RMC doesn't have anywhere near the manpower to use them, and why build extra capacity for them to use? If using military medical personnel, then use their bedding capacity as well. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"In hospitals you have one toilet for every six or eight beds. I am curious how they plumbed hundreds of toilets, sinks and showers into the Nightingales ? Or will they bring in portaloos ? "
The centres have been constructed in large capacity venues where there should be a sufficient WC to patient ratio. Additional temporary sanitation has been provided in the Manchester centre. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The hospitals are not 90% full, we’re closing wards because they aren’t being used, if anything we’re using them for storage of all the PPE we’re having to stockpile. This is all media driven hype, operations are cancelled at the request of the government. The media (as usual) are scaremongering, Shit sells! They’re all fed a small amount of bullshit by the government which they cleverly cover the whole country, add your social media and there’s your hysteria sorted |
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The centres have been constructed in large capacity venues where there should be a sufficient WC to patient ratio. "
So all the patients have to walk some distance to the conference centre toilets ? |
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"The hospitals are not 90% full, we’re closing wards because they aren’t being used, if anything we’re using them for storage of all the PPE we’re having to stockpile. This is all media driven hype, operations are cancelled at the request of the government. The media (as usual) are scaremongering, Shit sells! They’re all fed a small amount of bullshit by the government which they cleverly cover the whole country, add your social media and there’s your hysteria sorted "
Link? |
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"With hospital capacity at 90% and the risk of urgent operations being cancelled it is time to open it, we need to utilise our resources and use them efficiently "
They are normally 90% full at this time of year. |
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By *dsindyTV/TS
over a year ago
East Lancashire |
"In hospitals you have one toilet for every six or eight beds. I am curious how they plumbed hundreds of toilets, sinks and showers into the Nightingales ? Or will they bring in portaloos ?
The centres have been constructed in large capacity venues where there should be a sufficient WC to patient ratio. Additional temporary sanitation has been provided in the Manchester centre."
True, to an extent. The basic infrastructure is already there regarding plumbing, lighting, etc and the venues are built to shift large amounts of people quickly. But what has not been taken into account is that instead of these people being self mobile, a large percentage (perhaps a majority) wont be self mobile. So just on the toilet issue alone, how many would be able to use said facilities? Back to bed pans and bottles? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
The centres have been constructed in large capacity venues where there should be a sufficient WC to patient ratio.
So all the patients have to walk some distance to the conference centre toilets ?"
Yes, these are temporary facilities designed to assist with patients in recovery. Those still requiring bed care will have sanitary intervention as provided in most acute nursing situations.
Think of a large military field hospital which hasn’t hosted Boyzone. |
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"The hospitals are not 90% full, we’re closing wards because they aren’t being used, if anything we’re using them for storage of all the PPE we’re having to stockpile. This is all media driven hype, operations are cancelled at the request of the government. The media (as usual) are scaremongering, Shit sells! They’re all fed a small amount of bullshit by the government which they cleverly cover the whole country, add your social media and there’s your hysteria sorted "
So the clinical director for the Royal Liverpool hospital and a senior consultant who were interviewed as part of a piece on BBC north west were what, lying?
Assuming your an NHS staff member as is my wife with 40+ yrs in would you lie about such things and risk possible disciplinary with the NMC ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"In hospitals you have one toilet for every six or eight beds. I am curious how they plumbed hundreds of toilets, sinks and showers into the Nightingales ? Or will they bring in portaloos ?
The centres have been constructed in large capacity venues where there should be a sufficient WC to patient ratio. Additional temporary sanitation has been provided in the Manchester centre."
How close are the toilets to the beds though? In a medical ward a patient won’t be more 15 feet away from a bathroom, it can still take a member of staff 3 or 4 minutes to get them there if they have limited mobility, then 3 or 4 minutes to get them back to bed. Now imagine the toilets are 50-100 feet away from the patient. The number of toilets aren’t an issue, where they are situated is. |
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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago
Hull |
"In hospitals you have one toilet for every six or eight beds. I am curious how they plumbed hundreds of toilets, sinks and showers into the Nightingales ? Or will they bring in portaloos ? "
These facilities were all factored into the construction of these hospitals; just before the first one was opened in London, all the TV Channels were invited to do a tour so viewers could see what they were like. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The hospitals are not 90% full, we’re closing wards because they aren’t being used, if anything we’re using them for storage of all the PPE we’re having to stockpile. This is all media driven hype, operations are cancelled at the request of the government. The media (as usual) are scaremongering, Shit sells! They’re all fed a small amount of bullshit by the government which they cleverly cover the whole country, add your social media and there’s your hysteria sorted "
The NHS trust I work for does not have a single closed ward across two hospitals, what we do have is staffing levels that are dangerously low for normal times, let alone when we are in the middle of a pandemic.
If we close a ward it will be because we are unable to staff it, no other reason. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"In hospitals you have one toilet for every six or eight beds. I am curious how they plumbed hundreds of toilets, sinks and showers into the Nightingales ? Or will they bring in portaloos ?
The centres have been constructed in large capacity venues where there should be a sufficient WC to patient ratio. Additional temporary sanitation has been provided in the Manchester centre.
How close are the toilets to the beds though? In a medical ward a patient won’t be more 15 feet away from a bathroom, it can still take a member of staff 3 or 4 minutes to get them there if they have limited mobility, then 3 or 4 minutes to get them back to bed. Now imagine the toilets are 50-100 feet away from the patient. The number of toilets aren’t an issue, where they are situated is."
I would stress these are temporary facilities not ideal but they have the space and basic facilities to provide a temporary service.
There are many other factors that need to considered such as heating ventilation and at bed medical supplies. As pointed out temporary sanitation has been installed to aid and supplement the fixed provision.
These facilities are of a temporary nature and I have to say being involved in the construction of them are fit for purpose and provide the release valve for CCBeds in the major hospitals.
Not perfect but they work. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The hospitals are not 90% full, we’re closing wards because they aren’t being used, if anything we’re using them for storage of all the PPE we’re having to stockpile. This is all media driven hype, operations are cancelled at the request of the government. The media (as usual) are scaremongering, Shit sells! They’re all fed a small amount of bullshit by the government which they cleverly cover the whole country, add your social media and there’s your hysteria sorted
The NHS trust I work for does not have a single closed ward across two hospitals, what we do have is staffing levels that are dangerously low for normal times, let alone when we are in the middle of a pandemic.
If we close a ward it will be because we are unable to staff it, no other reason."
This  . There is such a high sickness level due to isolation (children bringing bugs home from school) or because they have covid at the moment. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My son-in-law's firm supplied the lighting for the Nightingales. I have seen the video he sent me of the Manchester one and there are no toilets anywhere near the beds. "
Why are you nit picking on this point?
Temporary and existing sanitation meet the requirements of the clinical teams caring for patients. Is you relative a health care professional or clinician?
There are quite a few other shortfalls in the design which are in conflict with NHS design procedures and process. The centres are a temporary response to a critical situation. Given the time the delivery teams had to install them I would say a job well done.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My son-in-law's firm supplied the lighting for the Nightingales. I have seen the video he sent me of the Manchester one and there are no toilets anywhere near the beds. "
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vNfjvAJu5mc
Just to point out that in this day and age WC facilities can be brought to the patient rather than the patient to the WC.
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"My son-in-law's firm supplied the lighting for the Nightingales. I have seen the video he sent me of the Manchester one and there are no toilets anywhere near the beds.
Why are you nit picking on this point?
Temporary and existing sanitation meet the requirements of the clinical teams caring for patients. Is you relative a health care professional or clinician?
There are quite a few other shortfalls in the design which are in conflict with NHS design procedures and process. The centres are a temporary response to a critical situation. Given the time the delivery teams had to install them I would say a job well done.
"
I think someone has mentioned this..isnt the issue they dint have to staff to man them,? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My son-in-law's firm supplied the lighting for the Nightingales. I have seen the video he sent me of the Manchester one and there are no toilets anywhere near the beds.
Why are you nit picking on this point?
Temporary and existing sanitation meet the requirements of the clinical teams caring for patients. Is you relative a health care professional or clinician?
There are quite a few other shortfalls in the design which are in conflict with NHS design procedures and process. The centres are a temporary response to a critical situation. Given the time the delivery teams had to install them I would say a job well done.
I think someone has mentioned this..isnt the issue they dint have to staff to man them,?"
That is a whole different story and one I am not qualified or knowledgeable to comment on.
The Manchester centre is capable or providing quality nursing and support care to those who are in different stages of treatment and or recovery.
Are the facilities personal or aesthetic then the answer is no.
I really do despair when we have “well my relative who put the lights in sent me a video” being taken as a a factual comment. |
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"
I really do despair when we have “well my relative who put the lights in sent me a video” being taken as a a factual comment."
It was factual that there were no toilets near the beds but someone on this thread has shown me that this is not an issue. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"My son-in-law's firm supplied the lighting for the Nightingales. I have seen the video he sent me of the Manchester one and there are no toilets anywhere near the beds.
Why are you nit picking on this point?
Temporary and existing sanitation meet the requirements of the clinical teams caring for patients. Is you relative a health care professional or clinician?
There are quite a few other shortfalls in the design which are in conflict with NHS design procedures and process. The centres are a temporary response to a critical situation. Given the time the delivery teams had to install them I would say a job well done.
I think someone has mentioned this..isnt the issue they dint have to staff to man them,?
That is a whole different story and one I am not qualified or knowledgeable to comment on.
The Manchester centre is capable or providing quality nursing and support care to those who are in different stages of treatment and or recovery.
Are the facilities personal or aesthetic then the answer is no.
I really do despair when we have “well my relative who put the lights in sent me a video” being taken as a a factual comment."
Is the Manchester Nightingale capable of being staffed fully? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"My son-in-law's firm supplied the lighting for the Nightingales. I have seen the video he sent me of the Manchester one and there are no toilets anywhere near the beds.
Why are you nit picking on this point?
Temporary and existing sanitation meet the requirements of the clinical teams caring for patients. Is you relative a health care professional or clinician?
There are quite a few other shortfalls in the design which are in conflict with NHS design procedures and process. The centres are a temporary response to a critical situation. Given the time the delivery teams had to install them I would say a job well done.
I think someone has mentioned this..isnt the issue they dint have to staff to man them,?
That is a whole different story and one I am not qualified or knowledgeable to comment on.
The Manchester centre is capable or providing quality nursing and support care to those who are in different stages of treatment and or recovery.
Are the facilities personal or aesthetic then the answer is no.
I really do despair when we have “well my relative who put the lights in sent me a video” being taken as a a factual comment.
Is the Manchester Nightingale capable of being staffed fully?"
As I said earlier I am not qualified or knowledgeable to answer that. The Manchester centre is fit for purpose from both an accommodation and clinical perspective. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The hospitals are not 90% full, we’re closing wards because they aren’t being used, if anything we’re using them for storage of all the PPE we’re having to stockpile. This is all media driven hype, operations are cancelled at the request of the government. The media (as usual) are scaremongering, Shit sells! They’re all fed a small amount of bullshit by the government which they cleverly cover the whole country, add your social media and there’s your hysteria sorted
So the clinical director for the Royal Liverpool hospital and a senior consultant who were interviewed as part of a piece on BBC north west were what, lying?
Assuming your an NHS staff member as is my wife with 40+ yrs in would you lie about such things and risk possible disciplinary with the NMC ?"
*
There isn't a Nightingale Hospital in Liverpool in the sense of a converted sports hall or conference centre or similar.
What they have done is opened up a number of wards in the new, unopened-but-90%-completed Royal Hospital.
This provides the extra beds needed and also allows them to isolate Covid patients from the still-in-use old Royal.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"My son-in-law's firm supplied the lighting for the Nightingales. I have seen the video he sent me of the Manchester one and there are no toilets anywhere near the beds.
Why are you nit picking on this point?
Temporary and existing sanitation meet the requirements of the clinical teams caring for patients. Is you relative a health care professional or clinician?
There are quite a few other shortfalls in the design which are in conflict with NHS design procedures and process. The centres are a temporary response to a critical situation. Given the time the delivery teams had to install them I would say a job well done.
I think someone has mentioned this..isnt the issue they dint have to staff to man them,?
That is a whole different story and one I am not qualified or knowledgeable to comment on.
The Manchester centre is capable or providing quality nursing and support care to those who are in different stages of treatment and or recovery.
Are the facilities personal or aesthetic then the answer is no.
I really do despair when we have “well my relative who put the lights in sent me a video” being taken as a a factual comment.
Is the Manchester Nightingale capable of being staffed fully?
As I said earlier I am not qualified or knowledgeable to answer that. The Manchester centre is fit for purpose from both an accommodation and clinical perspective. "
If there are not enough staff it is not fit for purpose from a clinical point of view. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"My son-in-law's firm supplied the lighting for the Nightingales. I have seen the video he sent me of the Manchester one and there are no toilets anywhere near the beds.
Why are you nit picking on this point?
Temporary and existing sanitation meet the requirements of the clinical teams caring for patients. Is you relative a health care professional or clinician?
There are quite a few other shortfalls in the design which are in conflict with NHS design procedures and process. The centres are a temporary response to a critical situation. Given the time the delivery teams had to install them I would say a job well done.
I think someone has mentioned this..isnt the issue they dint have to staff to man them,?
That is a whole different story and one I am not qualified or knowledgeable to comment on.
The Manchester centre is capable or providing quality nursing and support care to those who are in different stages of treatment and or recovery.
Are the facilities personal or aesthetic then the answer is no.
I really do despair when we have “well my relative who put the lights in sent me a video” being taken as a a factual comment.
Is the Manchester Nightingale capable of being staffed fully?
As I said earlier I am not qualified or knowledgeable to answer that. The Manchester centre is fit for purpose from both an accommodation and clinical perspective.
If there are not enough staff it is not fit for purpose from a clinical point of view."
Sighs
Ok it’s fucked and useless from a clinical point of view. Ok?
Sighs |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"My son-in-law's firm supplied the lighting for the Nightingales. I have seen the video he sent me of the Manchester one and there are no toilets anywhere near the beds.
Why are you nit picking on this point?
Temporary and existing sanitation meet the requirements of the clinical teams caring for patients. Is you relative a health care professional or clinician?
There are quite a few other shortfalls in the design which are in conflict with NHS design procedures and process. The centres are a temporary response to a critical situation. Given the time the delivery teams had to install them I would say a job well done.
I think someone has mentioned this..isnt the issue they dint have to staff to man them,?
That is a whole different story and one I am not qualified or knowledgeable to comment on.
The Manchester centre is capable or providing quality nursing and support care to those who are in different stages of treatment and or recovery.
Are the facilities personal or aesthetic then the answer is no.
I really do despair when we have “well my relative who put the lights in sent me a video” being taken as a a factual comment.
Is the Manchester Nightingale capable of being staffed fully?
As I said earlier I am not qualified or knowledgeable to answer that. The Manchester centre is fit for purpose from both an accommodation and clinical perspective.
If there are not enough staff it is not fit for purpose from a clinical point of view.
Sighs
Ok it’s fucked and useless from a clinical point of view. Ok?
Sighs"
Now you’re getting it. |
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By *dsindyTV/TS
over a year ago
East Lancashire |
It is ALL about staffing. Doesn't matter how good the facilities are, how high tech, how fit for purpose, how fast we can construct them, if you cant staff them (and we cannot without a further major draw down in staffing levels elsewhere) then they are not usable in the way they were promoted to be. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"My son-in-law's firm supplied the lighting for the Nightingales. I have seen the video he sent me of the Manchester one and there are no toilets anywhere near the beds.
Why are you nit picking on this point?
Temporary and existing sanitation meet the requirements of the clinical teams caring for patients. Is you relative a health care professional or clinician?
There are quite a few other shortfalls in the design which are in conflict with NHS design procedures and process. The centres are a temporary response to a critical situation. Given the time the delivery teams had to install them I would say a job well done.
I think someone has mentioned this..isnt the issue they dint have to staff to man them,?
That is a whole different story and one I am not qualified or knowledgeable to comment on.
The Manchester centre is capable or providing quality nursing and support care to those who are in different stages of treatment and or recovery.
Are the facilities personal or aesthetic then the answer is no.
I really do despair when we have “well my relative who put the lights in sent me a video” being taken as a a factual comment.
Is the Manchester Nightingale capable of being staffed fully?
As I said earlier I am not qualified or knowledgeable to answer that. The Manchester centre is fit for purpose from both an accommodation and clinical perspective.
If there are not enough staff it is not fit for purpose from a clinical point of view.
Sighs
Ok it’s fucked and useless from a clinical point of view. Ok?
Sighs
Now you’re getting it."
Seems so.
|
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Like them or not,it was great to see in the event we need them out country got them up and running or at least ready for running, along with manufacturing thousands of ventilators which are ready and waiting again if needed. We all doubt our country's times but this is one part of this virus strategy that the government got correct in my opinion. The staff should be made available to run all the nightingale should they be needed to free up normal hospitals as people are still I'll from nine covid illnesses |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It is ALL about staffing. Doesn't matter how good the facilities are, how high tech, how fit for purpose, how fast we can construct them, if you cant staff them (and we cannot without a further major draw down in staffing levels elsewhere) then they are not usable in the way they were promoted to be."
Look I pointed out that from an accommodation point of view the design and construction of the temporary facilities are fit for purpose to deliver a clinical response. I qualified my response to staffing availability and levels as that is not my area of specialty.
If a patient is admitted and there are sufficient staff to care for them the clinical response will be as good as temporary provision can deliver.
The achievement of all working on making ready temporary facilities should be applauded not sniped at from the comfort of your fab armchair. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My son-in-law's firm supplied the lighting for the Nightingales. I have seen the video he sent me of the Manchester one and there are no toilets anywhere near the beds.
Why are you nit picking on this point?
Temporary and existing sanitation meet the requirements of the clinical teams caring for patients. Is you relative a health care professional or clinician?
There are quite a few other shortfalls in the design which are in conflict with NHS design procedures and process. The centres are a temporary response to a critical situation. Given the time the delivery teams had to install them I would say a job well done.
I think someone has mentioned this..isnt the issue they dint have to staff to man them,?
That is a whole different story and one I am not qualified or knowledgeable to comment on.
The Manchester centre is capable or providing quality nursing and support care to those who are in different stages of treatment and or recovery.
Are the facilities personal or aesthetic then the answer is no.
I really do despair when we have “well my relative who put the lights in sent me a video” being taken as a a factual comment.
Is the Manchester Nightingale capable of being staffed fully?
As I said earlier I am not qualified or knowledgeable to answer that. The Manchester centre is fit for purpose from both an accommodation and clinical perspective.
If there are not enough staff it is not fit for purpose from a clinical point of view."
I do wonder sometimes as to the thought capacity of some on FAB |
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"The staff should be made available to run all the nightingale should they be needed to free up normal hospitals as people are still ill from none covid illnesses "
So where do they get these extra staff from ? I was due a minor procedure last week but it has been postponed for six weeks due to staff shortage. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The staff should be made available to run all the nightingale should they be needed to free up normal hospitals as people are still ill from none covid illnesses
So where do they get these extra staff from ? I was due a minor procedure last week but it has been postponed for six weeks due to staff shortage. "
I do wonder where the magic doctor and nurse trees are hidden because the NHS is short 100,000 staff and that is in normal times, not when extra capacity is required. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The staff should be made available to run all the nightingale should they be needed to free up normal hospitals as people are still ill from none covid illnesses
So where do they get these extra staff from ? I was due a minor procedure last week but it has been postponed for six weeks due to staff shortage.
I do wonder where the magic doctor and nurse trees are hidden because the NHS is short 100,000 staff and that is in normal times, not when extra capacity is required."
Sadly that tree does not exist.
If the infection rate rises and admissions to the Nightingale increase then staff will have to be redirected. This Will mean a reduction in other services which has happened over the last 7 months.
Do you have any other solution to this particular issue? |
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We've pushed a lot of our international staff away, so are ever lower in terms of experienced staff to work within hospitals and other health establishments. Meanwhile Johnson is happy to pursue no deal  . We're victims of our own stupidity |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We've pushed a lot of our international staff away, so are ever lower in terms of experienced staff to work within hospitals and other health establishments. Meanwhile Johnson is happy to pursue no deal . We're victims of our own stupidity"
I could not agree more. Brexit, Pandemic, No trade deal a stupefyingly idiot of a leader is I am afraid the perfect storm. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The staff should be made available to run all the nightingale should they be needed to free up normal hospitals as people are still ill from none covid illnesses
So where do they get these extra staff from ? I was due a minor procedure last week but it has been postponed for six weeks due to staff shortage.
I do wonder where the magic doctor and nurse trees are hidden because the NHS is short 100,000 staff and that is in normal times, not when extra capacity is required.
Sadly that tree does not exist.
If the infection rate rises and admissions to the Nightingale increase then staff will have to be redirected. This Will mean a reduction in other services which has happened over the last 7 months.
Do you have any other solution to this particular issue? "
There is no other solution, which is why keeping Covid numbers down is so important. The people who are complaining about cancer treatments being cancelled are the same ones who are complaining about lockdowns.
They don’t seem to be able to comprehend that lockdowns are there to help the NHS treat everyone, not just Covid patients. |
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"We've pushed a lot of our international staff away, so are ever lower in terms of experienced staff to work within hospitals and other health establishments. Meanwhile Johnson is happy to pursue no deal . We're victims of our own stupidity"
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By *dsindyTV/TS
over a year ago
East Lancashire |
"It is ALL about staffing. Doesn't matter how good the facilities are, how high tech, how fit for purpose, how fast we can construct them, if you cant staff them (and we cannot without a further major draw down in staffing levels elsewhere) then they are not usable in the way they were promoted to be.
Look I pointed out that from an accommodation point of view the design and construction of the temporary facilities are fit for purpose to deliver a clinical response. I qualified my response to staffing availability and levels as that is not my area of specialty.
If a patient is admitted and there are sufficient staff to care for them the clinical response will be as good as temporary provision can deliver.
The achievement of all working on making ready temporary facilities should be applauded not sniped at from the comfort of your fab armchair."
Am not sniping, and I agree...when a clear precise instruction and target was given we (as in the people required) rose to the occasion. But the money spent on these units was wasted because we couldn't use them. The reason to construct them was laudable, but the thought process for their use AFTER they were constructed was laughable. If you wish to benefit from their existence then you have to make sure you can use them. |
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