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Qantas bans Int. travel without Vaccination
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Qantas has just announced it will require a vaccination certificate to travel internationally.
On a more personal note, if you hookup with someone, having never had the vaccine, IMHO that's pretty much the same as not telling someone you may or may not have an STD. Or you don't use a condom...
Just like condoms Vs Aids and other STD's, being vaccinated doesn't necessarily mean you're immune. It means you're MUCH less likely contract the virus, but even MORE so if both parties are vaxxed.
Would you meet someone if only one of you is practicing safe sex all the time?
If they don't do it at all, or only do it when they feel like it... I'm willing to bet you'd feel a bit differently....
You can *see* if someone isn't wearing a condom. You can't see whether or not they're vaccinated.
Plenty of people are willing to provide evidence of STD tests - why not a Covid Vaccination?
In the present climate, it seems silly not to IMHO
Once the Pandemic is put to bed, that'll be a different story.
Personally, I won't be meeting anyone who hasn't been vaccinated (Not that anyone cares lol  ).
Just as I wouldn't meet someone who doesn't practice safe sex. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"It will be interesting to see how this plays out legally. Especially if a number of Quantas staff (especially flight crew) decline to be vaccinated."
I believe Cabin Crew are already legally required to be vaccinated against a list of things. Covid would just be added.
They'll push it through to get consumer confidence back |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"It will be interesting to see how this plays out legally. Especially if a number of Quantas staff (especially flight crew) decline to be vaccinated.
I believe Cabin Crew are already legally required to be vaccinated against a list of things. Covid would just be added.
They'll push it through to get consumer confidence back"
Even at risk of a prolonged court case/potential big fine and costs? |
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"It will be interesting to see how this plays out legally. Especially if a number of Quantas staff (especially flight crew) decline to be vaccinated.
I believe Cabin Crew are already legally required to be vaccinated against a list of things. Covid would just be added.
They'll push it through to get consumer confidence back
Even at risk of a prolonged court case/potential big fine and costs?"
All employers have a duty of care to their staff so exposure to a non vaccinated person might breach that duty. |
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By *amissCouple
over a year ago
chelmsford |
"It will be interesting to see how this plays out legally. Especially if a number of Quantas staff (especially flight crew) decline to be vaccinated.
I believe Cabin Crew are already legally required to be vaccinated against a list of things. Covid would just be added.
They'll push it through to get consumer confidence back
Even at risk of a prolonged court case/potential big fine and costs?
All employers have a duty of care to their staff so exposure to a non vaccinated person might breach that duty."
Yes   |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"It will be interesting to see how this plays out legally. Especially if a number of Quantas staff (especially flight crew) decline to be vaccinated.
I believe Cabin Crew are already legally required to be vaccinated against a list of things. Covid would just be added.
They'll push it through to get consumer confidence back
Even at risk of a prolonged court case/potential big fine and costs?
All employers have a duty of care to their staff so exposure to a non vaccinated person might breach that duty.
Yes "
But then there's the Humans Rights to consider, is it moral and ethical to force an employee to put something into their body as a condition of continued employment. Also from a legal standpoint Does a company have the right to retrospectively insist on an employee having certain vaccinations which are not stated in their contract of employment?
I think the lawyers and courts would have their hands full with this one which makes me question whether any business would deem the risk of losing worthwhile |
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"It will be interesting to see how this plays out legally. Especially if a number of Quantas staff (especially flight crew) decline to be vaccinated.
I believe Cabin Crew are already legally required to be vaccinated against a list of things. Covid would just be added.
They'll push it through to get consumer confidence back
Even at risk of a prolonged court case/potential big fine and costs?
All employers have a duty of care to their staff so exposure to a non vaccinated person might breach that duty.
Yes
But then there's the Humans Rights to consider, is it moral and ethical to force an employee to put something into their body as a condition of continued employment. Also from a legal standpoint Does a company have the right to retrospectively insist on an employee having certain vaccinations which are not stated in their contract of employment?
I think the lawyers and courts would have their hands full with this one which makes me question whether any business would deem the risk of losing worthwhile "
All staff have human rights including the right to be kept safe. If people start going to court over this, that says a lot about them and the lawyers that take on such a case. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It will be interesting to see how this plays out legally. Especially if a number of Quantas staff (especially flight crew) decline to be vaccinated.
I believe Cabin Crew are already legally required to be vaccinated against a list of things. Covid would just be added.
They'll push it through to get consumer confidence back
Even at risk of a prolonged court case/potential big fine and costs?
All employers have a duty of care to their staff so exposure to a non vaccinated person might breach that duty.
Yes
But then there's the Humans Rights to consider, is it moral and ethical to force an employee to put something into their body as a condition of continued employment. Also from a legal standpoint Does a company have the right to retrospectively insist on an employee having certain vaccinations which are not stated in their contract of employment?
I think the lawyers and courts would have their hands full with this one which makes me question whether any business would deem the risk of losing worthwhile "
They will just alter the employees contract |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"It will be interesting to see how this plays out legally. Especially if a number of Quantas staff (especially flight crew) decline to be vaccinated.
I believe Cabin Crew are already legally required to be vaccinated against a list of things. Covid would just be added.
They'll push it through to get consumer confidence back
Even at risk of a prolonged court case/potential big fine and costs?
All employers have a duty of care to their staff so exposure to a non vaccinated person might breach that duty.
Yes
But then there's the Humans Rights to consider, is it moral and ethical to force an employee to put something into their body as a condition of continued employment. Also from a legal standpoint Does a company have the right to retrospectively insist on an employee having certain vaccinations which are not stated in their contract of employment?
I think the lawyers and courts would have their hands full with this one which makes me question whether any business would deem the risk of losing worthwhile
They will just alter the employees contract"
Can an employer alter a contract of employment retrospectively like that?
--
Also, as much as people are going crazy for the vaccine (which I genuinely hope is a success), it is unproven and rushed. I sympathise with those who don't feel comfortable taking it and I don't think they should be peer or employer pressured into putting something into their bodies they don't feel right with. |
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Since when did they issue certificates for getting vaccinated?
Anyway, the owner of Quanta has "suggested" that he will probably introduce this for flights in and out of Australia. I wonder how this will stand legally though, but I'm sure that someone will soon challenge it in court.
Cal |
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I just wonder at what point in time they can mandate this? As a mid-30s woman with no "at-risk" medical conditions, I'd imagine I'd be lucky to be offered the vaccine this side of Christmas 2021. Oh well, good job I don't want to go to Australia
PS: I have no issue with the vaccine itself |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It will be interesting to see how this plays out legally. Especially if a number of Quantas staff (especially flight crew) decline to be vaccinated."
Lots of countries refuse entry if your not vaccinated against certain diseases. |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"It will be interesting to see how this plays out legally. Especially if a number of Quantas staff (especially flight crew) decline to be vaccinated.
Lots of countries refuse entry if your not vaccinated against certain diseases. "
The legality of requirements to enter a country are different to the legality a contract of employment. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Since when did they issue certificates for getting vaccinated?
Anyway, the owner of Quanta has "suggested" that he will probably introduce this for flights in and out of Australia. I wonder how this will stand legally though, but I'm sure that someone will soon challenge it in court.
Cal"
I've been to several countries what unless you have evidence of vaccination, you're not getting in. |
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"Since when did they issue certificates for getting vaccinated?
Anyway, the owner of Quanta has "suggested" that he will probably introduce this for flights in and out of Australia. I wonder how this will stand legally though, but I'm sure that someone will soon challenge it in court.
Cal"
The vaccination certificate already exists - International Certificate of Vaccination or Prophylaxis, or 'yellow card'.
If Quantas want to bar people then that's up to them - they are under no obligation to carry passengers they don't want to.
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By *emmabTV/TS
over a year ago
Leicestershire |
I really can't see what all the bother about having vaccination to travel. Yellow card has been required for years. I first had various vacancies in early 80's to travel to Singapore and Malaysia on the way to Australia. Required for visas. Also for any travel in Africa and Brazil.
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I'm sure that once a vaccine has been shown to be safe and effective, and is available enough that anyone can get one if they want, it will become the norm for all forms of international travel to insist on. Certainly there will be people that for one reason or another are medically unable to take a vaccine, and no doubt there will be some legal accommodation for this, but it will be something requiring a doctors certificate.
Bottom line is that the legal responsibility and financial liability of an airline or cruise ship or maybe even long distance train operator to its passengers will make them insist on certification, to cover their asses against the possibility of negligence lawsuits.
Ultimately it will come down to money, not anybody's feelings of the benefits or dangers of vaccination. |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"I think everyone should have a vaccination for international travel, when it becomes available.I think you will have to have a vaccination in time it will become part of flying"
Why not just make having a test either prior to flying or after landing a requirement of entry? |
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By *ax777Man
over a year ago
Not here |
"Will be interesting to see if Quantas parent company BA adopt's the same policy.
"
BA are not the parent company of Qantas. Qantas is part of the OneWorld alliance, as are BA but BA sold off the (minority) stake it held in Qantas a dozen or so years ago.
I think Qantas now has a partnership with Emirates.
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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago
Dubai & Nottingham |
"I'm sure that once a vaccine has been shown to be safe and effective, and is available enough that anyone can get one if they want, it will become the norm for all forms of international travel to insist on. Certainly there will be people that for one reason or another are medically unable to take a vaccine, and no doubt there will be some legal accommodation for this, but it will be something requiring a doctors certificate.
Bottom line is that the legal responsibility and financial liability of an airline or cruise ship or maybe even long distance train operator to its passengers will make them insist on certification, to cover their asses against the possibility of negligence lawsuits.
Ultimately it will come down to money, not anybody's feelings of the benefits or dangers of vaccination."
It will be like the yellow card, if you try and enter west Africa without one you pay someone $100 on arrival and they let you in. |
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"Will be interesting to see if Quantas parent company BA adopt's the same policy.
BA are not the parent company of Qantas. Qantas is part of the OneWorld alliance, as are BA but BA sold off the (minority) stake it held in Qantas a dozen or so years ago.
I think Qantas now has a partnership with Emirates.
"
Your right,
Just checked its actually majority owned by JP Morgan and HSBC banks now with a few other share holders.
It is still part of one word, however no mention of Emirates though.
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"It will be interesting to see how this plays out legally. Especially if a number of Quantas staff (especially flight crew) decline to be vaccinated.
I believe Cabin Crew are already legally required to be vaccinated against a list of things. Covid would just be added.
They'll push it through to get consumer confidence back
Even at risk of a prolonged court case/potential big fine and costs?
All employers have a duty of care to their staff so exposure to a non vaccinated person might breach that duty.
Yes
But then there's the Humans Rights to consider, is it moral and ethical to force an employee to put something into their body as a condition of continued employment. Also from a legal standpoint Does a company have the right to retrospectively insist on an employee having certain vaccinations which are not stated in their contract of employment?
I think the lawyers and courts would have their hands full with this one which makes me question whether any business would deem the risk of losing worthwhile
They will just alter the employees contract
Can an employer alter a contract of employment retrospectively like that?
--
Also, as much as people are going crazy for the vaccine (which I genuinely hope is a success), it is unproven and rushed. I sympathise with those who don't feel comfortable taking it and I don't think they should be peer or employer pressured into putting something into their bodies they don't feel right with."
Employers alter contracts retrospectively all the time eg. Change of pattern to working hours, change of holiday allowance etc.
I know that’s not exactly the same thing, but yes it’s completely normal to alter contracts retrospectively. |
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"I'm sure that once a vaccine has been shown to be safe and effective, and is available enough that anyone can get one if they want, it will become the norm for all forms of international travel to insist on. Certainly there will be people that for one reason or another are medically unable to take a vaccine, and no doubt there will be some legal accommodation for this, but it will be something requiring a doctors certificate.
Bottom line is that the legal responsibility and financial liability of an airline or cruise ship or maybe even long distance train operator to its passengers will make them insist on certification, to cover their asses against the possibility of negligence lawsuits.
Ultimately it will come down to money, not anybody's feelings of the benefits or dangers of vaccination.
It will be like the yellow card, if you try and enter west Africa without one you pay someone $100 on arrival and they let you in."
$100 
I've got back into Nigeria and Ghana with a box of Cadbury's roses. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Qantas has just announced it will require a vaccination certificate to travel internationally.
On a more personal note, if you hookup with someone, having never had the vaccine, IMHO that's pretty much the same as not telling someone you may or may not have an STD. Or you don't use a condom...
Just like condoms Vs Aids and other STD's, being vaccinated doesn't necessarily mean you're immune. It means you're MUCH less likely contract the virus, but even MORE so if both parties are vaxxed.
Would you meet someone if only one of you is practicing safe sex all the time?
If they don't do it at all, or only do it when they feel like it... I'm willing to bet you'd feel a bit differently....
You can *see* if someone isn't wearing a condom. You can't see whether or not they're vaccinated.
Plenty of people are willing to provide evidence of STD tests - why not a Covid Vaccination?
In the present climate, it seems silly not to IMHO
Once the Pandemic is put to bed, that'll be a different story.
Personally, I won't be meeting anyone who hasn't been vaccinated (Not that anyone cares lol ).
Just as I wouldn't meet someone who doesn't practice safe sex."
Two things come to light. Those who are vaccinated probably won't worry about who they fuck because they will see it much like wearing a condom. They are thousands who have been meeting all through covid without a blind bit of concern as one can see by their explicit Veris under the guise of a webcam.
Secondly please tell me how would you know their test is genuine? |
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"I'm sure that once a vaccine has been shown to be safe and effective, and is available enough that anyone can get one if they want, it will become the norm for all forms of international travel to insist on. Certainly there will be people that for one reason or another are medically unable to take a vaccine, and no doubt there will be some legal accommodation for this, but it will be something requiring a doctors certificate.
Bottom line is that the legal responsibility and financial liability of an airline or cruise ship or maybe even long distance train operator to its passengers will make them insist on certification, to cover their asses against the possibility of negligence lawsuits.
Ultimately it will come down to money, not anybody's feelings of the benefits or dangers of vaccination.
It will be like the yellow card, if you try and enter west Africa without one you pay someone $100 on arrival and they let you in.
$100
I've got back into Nigeria and Ghana with a box of Cadbury's roses. "
That's unlikely to work in Australia. |
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"I'm sure that once a vaccine has been shown to be safe and effective, and is available enough that anyone can get one if they want, it will become the norm for all forms of international travel to insist on. Certainly there will be people that for one reason or another are medically unable to take a vaccine, and no doubt there will be some legal accommodation for this, but it will be something requiring a doctors certificate.
Bottom line is that the legal responsibility and financial liability of an airline or cruise ship or maybe even long distance train operator to its passengers will make them insist on certification, to cover their asses against the possibility of negligence lawsuits.
Ultimately it will come down to money, not anybody's feelings of the benefits or dangers of vaccination.
It will be like the yellow card, if you try and enter west Africa without one you pay someone $100 on arrival and they let you in.
$100
I've got back into Nigeria and Ghana with a box of Cadbury's roses.
That's unlikely to work in Australia."
I would certainly hope not. West African countries still operate on "cash is king" principal, to offset poor wages, and non existant social systems.
Bribery and corruption is rife in every sector. It will never change sadly. |
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"Since when did they issue certificates for getting vaccinated?
Anyway, the owner of Quanta has "suggested" that he will probably introduce this for flights in and out of Australia. I wonder how this will stand legally though, but I'm sure that someone will soon challenge it in court.
Cal
The vaccination certificate already exists - International Certificate of Vaccination or Prophylaxis, or 'yellow card'.
If Quantas want to bar people then that's up to them - they are under no obligation to carry passengers they don't want to.
"
Would it not fit under the guise of "discrimination"?
Cal |
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"I think everyone should have a vaccination for international travel, when it becomes available.I think you will have to have a vaccination in time it will become part of flying
Why not just make having a test either prior to flying or after landing a requirement of entry?"
Because a test doesn't stop you catching it, passing it on and making this current situation last longer than it needs to. |
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By *ty31Man
over a year ago
NW London |
"I think everyone should have a vaccination for international travel, when it becomes available.I think you will have to have a vaccination in time it will become part of flying
Why not just make having a test either prior to flying or after landing a requirement of entry?
Because a test doesn't stop you catching it, passing it on and making this current situation last longer than it needs to."
Neither does a vaccine, only makes it more unlikely (theoretically).
The current vaccines claim to be around 90% effective in trial however this figure could be expected to decrease in real world use.
Also there will be a number of people who will be exempted (on medical grounds) from being jabbed. Plus not all countries will have a widespread vaccine roll out (quite possibly many developing nations) so would a current negative test result would be more effective than a certificate of vaccination only? |
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