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Free choice....
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"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? " # M. HANDCOCK | |||
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"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? " For now... There are plenty of other people who want the vaccine. So let's give it to them first. That's going to take at least 12 months. Afterwards maybe theres a debate to be had about personal choices, responsibilities and access to shared resources. You could add smoking, recreational drugs, drinking, driving, playing sports, diet and probably 20 other choices to that debate. Which is an overdue debate as the concept of a free at point of delivery NHS treatment, isn't achievable with the way it is currently funded and used and abused. Right now, we don't need to have the discussion. | |||
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"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? " Should they refuse to treat smokers, d*unks, drug addicts, Saturday night fighters, speeding drivers who crash and fat people ? | |||
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"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? Should they refuse to treat smokers, d*unks, drug addicts, Saturday night fighters, speeding drivers who crash and fat people ? " Well said! Also should they refuse vaccine supporters in case anything goes wrong or if they have side effects? | |||
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"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? " No. The only people they refuse to treat as far as I know are the ones who are violent towards the staff and even then it's a last resort. | |||
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"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? " The NHS though isn't free as everyone is paying towards the risk of illness much like an insurance policy through NI contributions. Now if they chose not to pay their NI contributions. If it were mandatory to have the vaccine then I'd agree much like an insurance policy. However untill that time, then it's quite hypothetical but interesting topic to discuss over a few drinks. | |||
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"Smokers shouldn't then be treated for any smoking related illnesses. Think of all the billions the NHS would save, think of all the spare beds that would be available in hospices and waiting times for many operations and cancer treatments would be reduced. " NHS saving money? I know it's a bit nit picky, and something a journalist/newspaper would write about but they have no money to save. Like you say we give them the money. Rather than saving it they would just not spend it or they would still spend it but on something else. | |||
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"Yeah let them pay for the nhs there whole life and if they show a bit of free choice or caution, punish them, nice." I think it's just a discussion starter but the current situation has certainly thrown up some interesting opinions. | |||
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"Smokers shouldn't then be treated for any smoking related illnesses. Think of all the billions the NHS would save, think of all the spare beds that would be available in hospices and waiting times for many operations and cancer treatments would be reduced. " What about ex-smokers? | |||
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"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? " | |||
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"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. Imagine the list of folks who through free choice because the decided to smoke, what about social smokers. Drink, but ok for moderate drinkers, so we would need charts and graphs to show where moderate ends and excessive starts. Overweight folks with T2 diabetes, how many calories are you allowed before treatment stops. Joint problems, cardiac, fatty liver disease. Cardiovascular, maybe didn't attend gym classes or have brisk walks. It would never work and would cost a bundle in administration. Just look after sick folks, it's easy, well sort of. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? "  | |||
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"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? Should they refuse to treat smokers, d*unks, drug addicts, Saturday night fighters, speeding drivers who crash and fat people ? Well said! Also should they refuse vaccine supporters in case anything goes wrong or if they have side effects? " Well said  | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? " Yes I've said this if I get it then leave me to take my chances x | |||
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"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? Should they refuse to treat smokers, d*unks, drug addicts, Saturday night fighters, speeding drivers who crash and fat people ? " We don't often agree but this..
Just back from a walk up a local hill and whilst I wear proper footwear there were a couple of people in trainers, should they be excluded from treatment if they sprain an ankle..?
Daft idea op.. | |||
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"Let’s not treat drinkers smokers drug addicts and fat people as well ... save a fortune there " Do thin people not get sick ? | |||
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"Yes I've said this if I get it then leave me to take my chances x" What about the people you would be in contact with? You'd be taking chances on behalf of them, too. | |||
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"Yes I've said this if I get it then leave me to take my chances x What about the people you would be in contact with? You'd be taking chances on behalf of them, too. " Yup x | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? " Forgive me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of a vaccination is not to protect yourself but to prevent the spread to someone else who may not be in a state to fight it off. It's actually a moral choice. Do you care enough about your fellow human to save his or her life with a jab. If you a person drowning would you throw that person a life buoy or walk away and say "it's not my problem". Don't bother answering, because it's already apparent that so many people aren't prepared to wear a mask to save someone else's life. The day someone else dies for your obesity, smoking habit etc etc. Then it becomes a fair comparison. | |||
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"If the nhs started to treat only certain individuals then surley the ones they wouldnt trrat would be exempt from paying anything towards the nhs" I wouldn’t bank on that one!
Having said that the alternative is private medical care which would make our nhs contributions look very cheap | |||
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"Yes I've said this if I get it then leave me to take my chances x What about the people you would be in contact with? You'd be taking chances on behalf of them, too. Yup x" How would you feel if someone you loved dearly died because they were infected by someone who refused to take the jab? | |||
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"Yes I've said this if I get it then leave me to take my chances x What about the people you would be in contact with? You'd be taking chances on behalf of them, too. Yup x How would you feel if someone you loved dearly died because they were infected by someone who refused to take the jab?" Ohh my days!! X | |||
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"Yes I've said this if I get it then leave me to take my chances x What about the people you would be in contact with? You'd be taking chances on behalf of them, too. Yup x How would you feel if someone you loved dearly died because they were infected by someone who refused to take the jab? Ohh my days!! X" Yes difficult to answer isn't it? | |||
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"If the nhs started to treat only certain individuals then surley the ones they wouldnt trrat would be exempt from paying anything towards the nhs" The world doesn't work like that. I don't use council owned sports facilities, social services or schools but I still pay towards them. | |||
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"If the nhs started to treat only certain individuals then surley the ones they wouldnt trrat would be exempt from paying anything towards the nhs The world doesn't work like that. I don't use council owned sports facilities, social services or schools but I still pay towards them." You choose not to use them if the nhs started to choose who they treat why should the ones they choose not to treat pay towards it.dont seem fair to take peoples money then refuse to treat them,they dpnt want to treat certain people then they dont get money from them people | |||
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"Yes I've said this if I get it then leave me to take my chances x What about the people you would be in contact with? You'd be taking chances on behalf of them, too. " They will have had the vaccine and me okay | |||
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"Yes I've said this if I get it then leave me to take my chances x What about the people you would be in contact with? You'd be taking chances on behalf of them, too. Yup x How would you feel if someone you loved dearly died because they were infected by someone who refused to take the jab? Ohh my days!! X Yes difficult to answer isn't it?" Not really if they’ve been vaccinated they will be ok | |||
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"Yes I've said this if I get it then leave me to take my chances x What about the people you would be in contact with? You'd be taking chances on behalf of them, too. Yup x How would you feel if someone you loved dearly died because they were infected by someone who refused to take the jab? Ohh my days!! X Yes difficult to answer isn't it? Not really if they’ve been vaccinated they will be ok "Exactly! Ty x | |||
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"Yes I've said this if I get it then leave me to take my chances x What about the people you would be in contact with? You'd be taking chances on behalf of them, too. Yup x How would you feel if someone you loved dearly died because they were infected by someone who refused to take the jab? Ohh my days!! X Yes difficult to answer isn't it? Not really if they’ve been vaccinated they will be ok "Except that not everyone can be vaccinated. Let's be specific and say the person you cared for and loved was a pregnant woman who dies along with her unborn child because they are infected by someone who refused to get vaccinated because of some bullshit they read on Facebook? Still happy with that situation? | |||
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"Let me ask another question. How many people here know someone who died from smallpox this century? The reason why we don't have to worry about smallpox is that the generation before us didn't have social media and were prepared to do something minor to erradicate a disease that killed millions. Thank goodness they got it right before the age of selfishness." I was the 2 generations before u lol! | |||
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"Let me ask another question. How many people here know someone who died from smallpox this century? The reason why we don't have to worry about smallpox is that the generation before us didn't have social media and were prepared to do something minor to erradicate a disease that killed millions. Thank goodness they got it right before the age of selfishness. I was the 2 generations before u lol! " Um. You're 12 years older than me. Did you get a smallpox vaccination? | |||
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"Let’s not treat drinkers smokers drug addicts and fat people as well ... save a fortune there Do thin people not get sick ?" Some make their selves sick but that is also another illness in itself. So op basically you are saying people that won't or can't take the vaccine and other posters who have joined in adding different people who shouldn't get any NHS treatment ? We are not a 3rd world country and we treat anyone and everyone regardless unlike a lot of countries where healthcare is for the selected races ,religions or wealthy . | |||
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"Everyone has a choice regarding the vaccination. That choice shouldn't be swayed by threats of limited access to the NHS. The majority of those people will have paid into the same service and have a right to the best medical facilities in the world " If it was only about you it would be a choice. But since it's something that effects others it's actually a responsibility. But as with wearing masks you have a choice to be responsible or irresponsible. Very much the same way a d*unk person has a choice to get behind the wheel of a car. I don't hear people championing the rights of d*unk people to choose whether to drive or not. | |||
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"If the nhs started to treat only certain individuals then surley the ones they wouldnt trrat would be exempt from paying anything towards the nhs The world doesn't work like that. I don't use council owned sports facilities, social services or schools but I still pay towards them. You choose not to use them if the nhs started to choose who they treat why should the ones they choose not to treat pay towards it.dont seem fair to take peoples money then refuse to treat them,they dpnt want to treat certain people then they dont get money from them people" Well in fairness the nhs have been refusing to treat people for a while and even more so this last 9 months. I've paid a lot towards it for best part of 40 years but can't get an appointment to see who I need to see for 15 months.... | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"If the nhs started to treat only certain individuals then surley the ones they wouldnt trrat would be exempt from paying anything towards the nhs The world doesn't work like that. I don't use council owned sports facilities, social services or schools but I still pay towards them. You choose not to use them if the nhs started to choose who they treat why should the ones they choose not to treat pay towards it.dont seem fair to take peoples money then refuse to treat them,they dpnt want to treat certain people then they dont get money from them people Well in fairness the nhs have been refusing to treat people for a while and even more so this last 9 months. I've paid a lot towards it for best part of 40 years but can't get an appointment to see who I need to see for 15 months.... " I hear ya ive paid in for nearly 30 years and even before covid it was near impossible to get an appointment at g.p but guess that what happens in a town of 40 000 with just three surgerys | |||
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"I’m a mother of an adult child with a physical disability a single parent ... so I’m supposed to think of everybody else and have a vaccine that’s been rushed through ... anybody volunteering here to look after him when I become ill from a vaccine and I have no comeback from it No I didn’t think so !!!! I have a hearty immune system that does the job thank you !! " How was this vaccine "rushed through"? Would you feel more secure in the vaccine if it had waited for a month in the queue waiting for a haemorrhoid cream to be approved? This vaccine has been developed faster than any other vaccine because it has more money thrown at it and more very clever people involved in it than any other vaccine in human history. To me that makes it safer. Hands up everone who enjoys being ill and can afford to do so right now. And now hands up everone who loves restrictions, wearing masks, not meeting etc? We all want the virus to go away but aren't prepared to do what it takes to stop it. | |||
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"I’m a mother of an adult child with a physical disability a single parent ... so I’m supposed to think of everybody else and have a vaccine that’s been rushed through ... anybody volunteering here to look after him when I become ill from a vaccine and I have no comeback from it No I didn’t think so !!!! I have a hearty immune system that does the job thank you !! " The impact of what they're calling "long covid" is likely to wipe you out for longer than any side effect from the vaccine. A friend of mine had "mild" covid but is still suffering 8 weeks later...... | |||
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"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of a vaccination is not to protect yourself but to prevent the spread to someone else who may not be in a state to fight it off. It's actually a moral choice. Do you care enough about your fellow human to save his or her life with a jab. If you a person drowning would you throw that person a life buoy or walk away and say "it's not my problem". Don't bother answering, because it's already apparent that so many people aren't prepared to wear a mask to save someone else's life. The day someone else dies for your obesity, smoking habit etc etc. Then it becomes a fair comparison. " Their are a lot of people who have died from secondary smoke | |||
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"I’m a mother of an adult child with a physical disability a single parent ... so I’m supposed to think of everybody else and have a vaccine that’s been rushed through ... anybody volunteering here to look after him when I become ill from a vaccine and I have no comeback from it No I didn’t think so !!!! I have a hearty immune system that does the job thank you !! The impact of what they're calling "long covid" is likely to wipe you out for longer than any side effect from the vaccine. A friend of mine had "mild" covid but is still suffering 8 weeks later...... " 100% agree I know a few who have had it and some have been lucky and not been hospitalised but nearly all too a few weeks to get better and some 8 weeks on are still struggling I can't see any sane reason not to have the vaccine by choice. | |||
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"If the nhs started to treat only certain individuals then surley the ones they wouldnt trrat would be exempt from paying anything towards the nhs The world doesn't work like that. I don't use council owned sports facilities, social services or schools but I still pay towards them. You choose not to use them if the nhs started to choose who they treat why should the ones they choose not to treat pay towards it.dont seem fair to take peoples money then refuse to treat them,they dpnt want to treat certain people then they dont get money from them people Well in fairness the nhs have been refusing to treat people for a while and even more so this last 9 months. I've paid a lot towards it for best part of 40 years but can't get an appointment to see who I need to see for 15 months.... I hear ya ive paid in for nearly 30 years and even before covid it was near impossible to get an appointment at g.p but guess that what happens in a town of 40 000 with just three surgerys" You need to move. We can nearly always get a same day appointment. | |||
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"I’m a mother of an adult child with a physical disability a single parent ... so I’m supposed to think of everybody else and have a vaccine that’s been rushed through ... anybody volunteering here to look after him when I become ill from a vaccine and I have no comeback from it No I didn’t think so !!!! I have a hearty immune system that does the job thank you !! " As a single parent to a disabled child this is exactly the reason I am getting the vaccine. How selfish of me to risk long covid who will care for him? Many thousands of people had a ‘hearty immune system’ and are now having to relearn to walk, talk, haven’t been able to care for themselves for months. | |||
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"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? Should they refuse to treat smokers, d*unks, drug addicts, Saturday night fighters, speeding drivers who crash and fat people ? " None of them have been offered a cure for their problems. | |||
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"Yes I've said this if I get it then leave me to take my chances x What about the people you would be in contact with? You'd be taking chances on behalf of them, too. Yup x How would you feel if someone you loved dearly died because they were infected by someone who refused to take the jab? Ohh my days!! X Yes difficult to answer isn't it? Not really if they’ve been vaccinated they will be ok
Except that not everyone can be vaccinated. Let's be specific and say the person you cared for and loved was a pregnant woman who dies along with her unborn child because they are infected by someone who refused to get vaccinated because of some bullshit they read on Facebook?
Still happy with that situation?"Isn’t it funny that there was no reply to this one ... Another scenario you chose not to be vaccinated but your child who caught it from you was the one in a million who died. | |||
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"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? " So treat it like smoking? | |||
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"I’m a mother of an adult child with a physical disability a single parent ... so I’m supposed to think of everybody else and have a vaccine that’s been rushed through ... anybody volunteering here to look after him when I become ill from a vaccine and I have no comeback from it No I didn’t think so !!!! I have a hearty immune system that does the job thank you !! " Sad | |||
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"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? So treat it like smoking?" So stand outside the pub in the cold with all the other antivaxers? ?????? | |||
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"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of a vaccination is not to protect yourself but to prevent the spread to someone else who may not be in a state to fight it off. It's actually a moral choice. Do you care enough about your fellow human to save his or her life with a jab. If you a person drowning would you throw that person a life buoy or walk away and say "it's not my problem". Don't bother answering, because it's already apparent that so many people aren't prepared to wear a mask to save someone else's life. The day someone else dies for your obesity, smoking habit etc etc. Then it becomes a fair comparison. Their are a lot of people who have died from secondary smoke" And hence smoking laws. | |||
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"Everyone has a choice regarding the vaccination. That choice shouldn't be swayed by threats of limited access to the NHS. The majority of those people will have paid into the same service and have a right to the best medical facilities in the world If it was only about you it would be a choice. But since it's something that effects others it's actually a responsibility. But as with wearing masks you have a choice to be responsible or irresponsible. Very much the same way a d*unk person has a choice to get behind the wheel of a car. I don't hear people championing the rights of d*unk people to choose whether to drive or not." That's a poor analogy. A d*unk has a reduced perception of risk due to being intoxicated. This isn't about championing a person's reasons for doing or not doing something that fits in with your beliefs or mine. It's about having the freedom to do what is right for them. Regardless of what you think is irresponsible. Me personally I will do what's right for me and the people around me. | |||
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"If the nhs started to treat only certain individuals then surley the ones they wouldnt trrat would be exempt from paying anything towards the nhs The world doesn't work like that. I don't use council owned sports facilities, social services or schools but I still pay towards them. You choose not to use them if the nhs started to choose who they treat why should the ones they choose not to treat pay towards it.dont seem fair to take peoples money then refuse to treat them,they dpnt want to treat certain people then they dont get money from them people Well in fairness the nhs have been refusing to treat people for a while and even more so this last 9 months. I've paid a lot towards it for best part of 40 years but can't get an appointment to see who I need to see for 15 months.... I hear ya ive paid in for nearly 30 years and even before covid it was near impossible to get an appointment at g.p but guess that what happens in a town of 40 000 with just three surgerys You need to move. We can nearly always get a same day appointment." obviously not as overcrowded as us then lol 8000 extra propertys here in last three years no extra doctors dentists or school places think our council are trying to see how long it takes for the town to grind to a halt lol | |||
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"Everyone has a choice regarding the vaccination. That choice shouldn't be swayed by threats of limited access to the NHS. The majority of those people will have paid into the same service and have a right to the best medical facilities in the world If it was only about you it would be a choice. But since it's something that effects others it's actually a responsibility. But as with wearing masks you have a choice to be responsible or irresponsible. Very much the same way a d*unk person has a choice to get behind the wheel of a car. I don't hear people championing the rights of d*unk people to choose whether to drive or not. That's a poor analogy. A d*unk has a reduced perception of risk due to being intoxicated. This isn't about championing a person's reasons for doing or not doing something that fits in with your beliefs or mine. It's about having the freedom to do what is right for them. Regardless of what you think is irresponsible. Me personally I will do what's right for me and the people around me. " The person drove to the bar sober and then ordered drinks knowing that would put them over the limit. If your argument was valid people caught d*unk driving could offer diminished capacity as an excuse. But the point I was making was that it's a decision that affects others not just themselves. Would you agree that this virus owes it's entire existence to people who took the personal decision not to follow the rules? Over a million people have died because of the personal decision of others. In theory, with our knowledge on how to prevent the spread of the virus it should never have lasted anything more than two weeks. | |||
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"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? " No they shouldn’t refuse to treat anyone?  | |||
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"If the nhs started to treat only certain individuals then surley the ones they wouldnt trrat would be exempt from paying anything towards the nhs The world doesn't work like that. I don't use council owned sports facilities, social services or schools but I still pay towards them. You choose not to use them if the nhs started to choose who they treat why should the ones they choose not to treat pay towards it.dont seem fair to take peoples money then refuse to treat them,they dpnt want to treat certain people then they dont get money from them people Well in fairness the nhs have been refusing to treat people for a while and even more so this last 9 months. I've paid a lot towards it for best part of 40 years but can't get an appointment to see who I need to see for 15 months.... I hear ya ive paid in for nearly 30 years and even before covid it was near impossible to get an appointment at g.p but guess that what happens in a town of 40 000 with just three surgerys You need to move. We can nearly always get a same day appointment." Lucky you, if you want to see a GP at my surgery, you have to fill in an online consultation form, and then they may ring you back, the guess whats wrong with you and send you a prescription, when that doesnt work they make you fill in another form and they send you something else, without even a call back, then finally when that doesnt work they say you can see a doctor in two weeks because they are very busy ! Oh yeh and two weeks later you sit in an empty waiting room for 45 minutes after your appointment time before they see you and guess what - give you something else that doesnt work, back to square one filling in online forms again ! | |||
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"If the nhs started to treat only certain individuals then surley the ones they wouldnt trrat would be exempt from paying anything towards the nhs The world doesn't work like that. I don't use council owned sports facilities, social services or schools but I still pay towards them. You choose not to use them if the nhs started to choose who they treat why should the ones they choose not to treat pay towards it.dont seem fair to take peoples money then refuse to treat them,they dpnt want to treat certain people then they dont get money from them people" As I said, the world doesn't work like that and there's been no mention in the real world of the NHS witholding treatment. | |||
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"Everyone has a choice regarding the vaccination. That choice shouldn't be swayed by threats of limited access to the NHS. The majority of those people will have paid into the same service and have a right to the best medical facilities in the world If it was only about you it would be a choice. But since it's something that effects others it's actually a responsibility. But as with wearing masks you have a choice to be responsible or irresponsible. Very much the same way a d*unk person has a choice to get behind the wheel of a car. I don't hear people championing the rights of d*unk people to choose whether to drive or not. That's a poor analogy. A d*unk has a reduced perception of risk due to being intoxicated. This isn't about championing a person's reasons for doing or not doing something that fits in with your beliefs or mine. It's about having the freedom to do what is right for them. Regardless of what you think is irresponsible. Me personally I will do what's right for me and the people around me. The person drove to the bar sober and then ordered drinks knowing that would put them over the limit. If your argument was valid people caught d*unk driving could offer diminished capacity as an excuse. But the point I was making was that it's a decision that affects others not just themselves. Would you agree that this virus owes it's entire existence to people who took the personal decision not to follow the rules? Over a million people have died because of the personal decision of others. In theory, with our knowledge on how to prevent the spread of the virus it should never have lasted anything more than two weeks. " Again poor analogy. Drink driving is a crime and a poor choice . Refusing to take a vaccine isn't a crime however its a choice. I don't believe that choice should be taken from people and especially under the threat of removing their right to Treatment under the NHS. Isn't that the original point of the post? Drink driving wasn't mentioned | |||
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"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of a vaccination is not to protect yourself but to prevent the spread to someone else who may not be in a state to fight it off. It's actually a moral choice. Do you care enough about your fellow human to save his or her life with a jab. If you a person drowning would you throw that person a life buoy or walk away and say "it's not my problem". Don't bother answering, because it's already apparent that so many people aren't prepared to wear a mask to save someone else's life. The day someone else dies for your obesity, smoking habit etc etc. Then it becomes a fair comparison. " That’s not really true, the point of a vaccine is to protect yourself, it gives you the immunity. They claim to not yet know if it prevents onward transmission and if doesn’t it may, in the short term, have the opposite effect. | |||
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"Why do the government not outlaw the use of tobacco? Because the money raised in taxes far outweighs the millions spent treating "smoking related diseases" (a very fast and loose description when you drill down into actual numbers). You want smokers stopped from recieving nhs treatments? Fine, we will stop paying any tax on our tobacco and put the money into private health schemes. See how long it takes before everybody elses taxes go up to keep the nhs going." Oh thank you smokers for saving the nhs | |||
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"People who have been infected they are imune right? They should be asked to have this vaccine or not ? " Wrong. There is little evidence or knowledge yet that having had the virus confers immunity. How much if any protection and for what period of time. I stand to be corrected by an expert. | |||
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"People who have been infected they are imune right? They should be asked to have this vaccine or not ? Wrong. There is little evidence or knowledge yet that having had the virus confers immunity. How much if any protection and for what period of time. I stand to be corrected by an expert. " Catching covid does confer immunity for at least 6 months. Studies show this. Only a handful full have been shown to have caught it again. | |||
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"People who have been infected they are imune right? They should be asked to have this vaccine or not ? Wrong. There is little evidence or knowledge yet that having had the virus confers immunity. How much if any protection and for what period of time. I stand to be corrected by an expert. Catching covid does confer immunity for at least 6 months. Studies show this. Only a handful full have been shown to have caught it again." That's good news, I stand corrected. Do you have any references to the studies as I have missed them | |||
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"Yes I've said this if I get it then leave me to take my chances x What about the people you would be in contact with? You'd be taking chances on behalf of them, too. " And what about those you come in contact with? What's the difference? | |||
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"People who have been infected they are imune right? They should be asked to have this vaccine or not ? Wrong. There is little evidence or knowledge yet that having had the virus confers immunity. How much if any protection and for what period of time. I stand to be corrected by an expert. Catching covid does confer immunity for at least 6 months. Studies show this. Only a handful full have been shown to have caught it again. That's good news, I stand corrected. Do you have any references to the studies as I have missed them" 8 months on and our Antibody test confirmed we still have antibodies. Even with a vaccine you can pass the virus on. This whole section Virus should be removed from the forum's. | |||
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"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of a vaccination is not to protect yourself but to prevent the spread to someone else who may not be in a state to fight it off. It's actually a moral choice. Do you care enough about your fellow human to save his or her life with a jab. If you a person drowning would you throw that person a life buoy or walk away and say "it's not my problem". Don't bother answering, because it's already apparent that so many people aren't prepared to wear a mask to save someone else's life. The day someone else dies for your obesity, smoking habit etc etc. Then it becomes a fair comparison. That’s not really true, the point of a vaccine is to protect yourself, it gives you the immunity. They claim to not yet know if it prevents onward transmission and if doesn’t it may, in the short term, have the opposite effect. " I think many have buried their heads on this one. I've been saying this ever since the question was directly asked on ministers question time and then on news night extra to a virologist. Both replied with the same answer. The virus can still remain in your nasal system even if you have been vaccinated against it. The vaccine does not kill the virus, it helps your body to build immunity and protects itself against it. It's very clear, so please stop using the emotional blackma*l arguments that those who choose not to have it will be spreaders, because those who choose to have it will and can spread it if they pick it up from someone who has it. Just to explain it again, if you choose to have the vaccine then you are less likely to have the more serious side effects of the virus, which demonstrates you can still get it, and therefore pass it on too. Hopefully some may understand this. | |||
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"People who have been infected they are imune right? They should be asked to have this vaccine or not ? Wrong. There is little evidence or knowledge yet that having had the virus confers immunity. How much if any protection and for what period of time. I stand to be corrected by an expert. Catching covid does confer immunity for at least 6 months. Studies show this. Only a handful full have been shown to have caught it again. That's good news, I stand corrected. Do you have any references to the studies as I have missed them 8 months on and our Antibody test confirmed we still have antibodies. Even with a vaccine you can pass the virus on. This whole section Virus should be removed from the forum's." The histeria must continue a little bit longer. | |||
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"People who have been infected they are imune right? They should be asked to have this vaccine or not ? Wrong. There is little evidence or knowledge yet that having had the virus confers immunity. How much if any protection and for what period of time. I stand to be corrected by an expert. Catching covid does confer immunity for at least 6 months. Studies show this. Only a handful full have been shown to have caught it again. That's good news, I stand corrected. Do you have any references to the studies as I have missed them 8 months on and our Antibody test confirmed we still have antibodies. Even with a vaccine you can pass the virus on. This whole section Virus should be removed from the forum's." I think you're probably right. It's mostly quite unpleasant unhelpful arguments. | |||
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"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of a vaccination is not to protect yourself but to prevent the spread to someone else who may not be in a state to fight it off. It's actually a moral choice. Do you care enough about your fellow human to save his or her life with a jab. If you a person drowning would you throw that person a life buoy or walk away and say "it's not my problem". Don't bother answering, because it's already apparent that so many people aren't prepared to wear a mask to save someone else's life. The day someone else dies for your obesity, smoking habit etc etc. Then it becomes a fair comparison. That’s not really true, the point of a vaccine is to protect yourself, it gives you the immunity. They claim to not yet know if it prevents onward transmission and if doesn’t it may, in the short term, have the opposite effect. I think many have buried their heads on this one. I've been saying this ever since the question was directly asked on ministers question time and then on news night extra to a virologist. Both replied with the same answer. The virus can still remain in your nasal system even if you have been vaccinated against it. The vaccine does not kill the virus, it helps your body to build immunity and protects itself against it. It's very clear, so please stop using the emotional blackma*l arguments that those who choose not to have it will be spreaders, because those who choose to have it will and can spread it if they pick it up from someone who has it. Just to explain it again, if you choose to have the vaccine then you are less likely to have the more serious side effects of the virus, which demonstrates you can still get it, and therefore pass it on too. Hopefully some may understand this." | |||
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"Smokers shouldn't then be treated for any smoking related illnesses. Think of all the billions the NHS would save, think of all the spare beds that would be available in hospices and waiting times for many operations and cancer treatments would be reduced. " Not all cancers are caused throu smoking, try saying that to parents with a child with cancer ... | |||
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"Maybe it should be compulsory except to those medically exempt... A bit of authoritarianism never did any harm.... "ridiculous comment. | |||
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"Everyone has a choice regarding the vaccination. That choice shouldn't be swayed by threats of limited access to the NHS. The majority of those people will have paid into the same service and have a right to the best medical facilities in the world If it was only about you it would be a choice. But since it's something that effects others it's actually a responsibility. But as with wearing masks you have a choice to be responsible or irresponsible. Very much the same way a d*unk person has a choice to get behind the wheel of a car. I don't hear people championing the rights of d*unk people to choose whether to drive or not. That's a poor analogy. A d*unk has a reduced perception of risk due to being intoxicated. This isn't about championing a person's reasons for doing or not doing something that fits in with your beliefs or mine. It's about having the freedom to do what is right for them. Regardless of what you think is irresponsible. Me personally I will do what's right for me and the people around me. The person drove to the bar sober and then ordered drinks knowing that would put them over the limit. If your argument was valid people caught d*unk driving could offer diminished capacity as an excuse. But the point I was making was that it's a decision that affects others not just themselves. Would you agree that this virus owes it's entire existence to people who took the personal decision not to follow the rules? Over a million people have died because of the personal decision of others. In theory, with our knowledge on how to prevent the spread of the virus it should never have lasted anything more than two weeks. Again poor analogy. Drink driving is a crime and a poor choice . Refusing to take a vaccine isn't a crime however its a choice. I don't believe that choice should be taken from people and especially under the threat of removing their right to Treatment under the NHS. Isn't that the original point of the post? Drink driving wasn't mentioned " Murder is a crime. But it's also a choice. Would you like to see it decriminalised? Whether you kill someone discriminately through premeditation or kill someone indiscriminately through your apathy, I don't see a difference. In fact in someways indiscriminate killing is worse. Over a million people have died because some people valued their comfort and convenience over someone else's life. You can dress that up any way you like but at the end of the day it's a choice to spread the virus or kill it. And if your choice is to spread the virus the the blood of the victims of Covid-19 is on your hands. You have taken your "right" to spread the virus over someone else's right to live, not to mention the impact your spreading of the virus has on the economy, mental heath, businesses, jobs, travel etc etc. | |||
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"Everyone has a choice regarding the vaccination. That choice shouldn't be swayed by threats of limited access to the NHS. The majority of those people will have paid into the same service and have a right to the best medical facilities in the world If it was only about you it would be a choice. But since it's something that effects others it's actually a responsibility. But as with wearing masks you have a choice to be responsible or irresponsible. Very much the same way a d*unk person has a choice to get behind the wheel of a car. I don't hear people championing the rights of d*unk people to choose whether to drive or not. That's a poor analogy. A d*unk has a reduced perception of risk due to being intoxicated. This isn't about championing a person's reasons for doing or not doing something that fits in with your beliefs or mine. It's about having the freedom to do what is right for them. Regardless of what you think is irresponsible. Me personally I will do what's right for me and the people around me. The person drove to the bar sober and then ordered drinks knowing that would put them over the limit. If your argument was valid people caught d*unk driving could offer diminished capacity as an excuse. But the point I was making was that it's a decision that affects others not just themselves. Would you agree that this virus owes it's entire existence to people who took the personal decision not to follow the rules? Over a million people have died because of the personal decision of others. In theory, with our knowledge on how to prevent the spread of the virus it should never have lasted anything more than two weeks. Again poor analogy. Drink driving is a crime and a poor choice . Refusing to take a vaccine isn't a crime however its a choice. I don't believe that choice should be taken from people and especially under the threat of removing their right to Treatment under the NHS. Isn't that the original point of the post? Drink driving wasn't mentioned Murder is a crime. But it's also a choice. Would you like to see it decriminalised? Whether you kill someone discriminately through premeditation or kill someone indiscriminately through your apathy, I don't see a difference. In fact in someways indiscriminate killing is worse. Over a million people have died because some people valued their comfort and convenience over someone else's life. You can dress that up any way you like but at the end of the day it's a choice to spread the virus or kill it. And if your choice is to spread the virus the the blood of the victims of Covid-19 is on your hands. You have taken your "right" to spread the virus over someone else's right to live, not to mention the impact your spreading of the virus has on the economy, mental heath, businesses, jobs, travel etc etc." Yet again the sort of attitude no one should have. Read the post from a girl who's been bullied at work. I think it's exactly people like you who are causing her distress. | |||
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"Should we refuse medical treatment for smokers, obesity, accidents caused through dangerous activities or a multitude of other things that can possibly have health consequences? If you pick up and STD due to being on fab, should you also be refused treatment on the NHS? Must be cold up on those pedestals." I'd hate to break it to you but you don't get an STD from being on fab. I've been on fab for 6 years and not one STD. Also had sexual partners rinning into tripple figures and still no STD. It's about using protection or not using protection. A person not on fab can get an STD from having sex once. So I'm not buying your argument. I think everyone makes mistakes and poor judgement and no one should be refused medical treatment. But I believe people should pay for their mistakes as one does with every aspect of life. I don't see why people who follow the rules should have to pay for self inflicted harm. | |||
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"Everyone has a choice regarding the vaccination. That choice shouldn't be swayed by threats of limited access to the NHS. The majority of those people will have paid into the same service and have a right to the best medical facilities in the world If it was only about you it would be a choice. But since it's something that effects others it's actually a responsibility. But as with wearing masks you have a choice to be responsible or irresponsible. Very much the same way a d*unk person has a choice to get behind the wheel of a car. I don't hear people championing the rights of d*unk people to choose whether to drive or not. That's a poor analogy. A d*unk has a reduced perception of risk due to being intoxicated. This isn't about championing a person's reasons for doing or not doing something that fits in with your beliefs or mine. It's about having the freedom to do what is right for them. Regardless of what you think is irresponsible. Me personally I will do what's right for me and the people around me. The person drove to the bar sober and then ordered drinks knowing that would put them over the limit. If your argument was valid people caught d*unk driving could offer diminished capacity as an excuse. But the point I was making was that it's a decision that affects others not just themselves. Would you agree that this virus owes it's entire existence to people who took the personal decision not to follow the rules? Over a million people have died because of the personal decision of others. In theory, with our knowledge on how to prevent the spread of the virus it should never have lasted anything more than two weeks. Again poor analogy. Drink driving is a crime and a poor choice . Refusing to take a vaccine isn't a crime however its a choice. I don't believe that choice should be taken from people and especially under the threat of removing their right to Treatment under the NHS. Isn't that the original point of the post? Drink driving wasn't mentioned Murder is a crime. But it's also a choice. Would you like to see it decriminalised? Whether you kill someone discriminately through premeditation or kill someone indiscriminately through your apathy, I don't see a difference. In fact in someways indiscriminate killing is worse. Over a million people have died because some people valued their comfort and convenience over someone else's life. You can dress that up any way you like but at the end of the day it's a choice to spread the virus or kill it. And if your choice is to spread the virus the the blood of the victims of Covid-19 is on your hands. You have taken your "right" to spread the virus over someone else's right to live, not to mention the impact your spreading of the virus has on the economy, mental heath, businesses, jobs, travel etc etc. Yet again the sort of attitude no one should have. Read the post from a girl who's been bullied at work. I think it's exactly people like you who are causing her distress. " Yup, The holier than thou attitude across this forum is disgusting to be honest. Especially when people are posting about withholding medical treatment | |||
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"Everyone has a choice regarding the vaccination. That choice shouldn't be swayed by threats of limited access to the NHS. The majority of those people will have paid into the same service and have a right to the best medical facilities in the world If it was only about you it would be a choice. But since it's something that effects others it's actually a responsibility. But as with wearing masks you have a choice to be responsible or irresponsible. Very much the same way a d*unk person has a choice to get behind the wheel of a car. I don't hear people championing the rights of d*unk people to choose whether to drive or not." Actually I think you will find that my choice is only about me. As is my behaviour and control over myself. I agree that my choice does have an impact on others but. I make that decision. Not you or anyone else | |||
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"Everyone has a choice regarding the vaccination. That choice shouldn't be swayed by threats of limited access to the NHS. The majority of those people will have paid into the same service and have a right to the best medical facilities in the world If it was only about you it would be a choice. But since it's something that effects others it's actually a responsibility. But as with wearing masks you have a choice to be responsible or irresponsible. Very much the same way a d*unk person has a choice to get behind the wheel of a car. I don't hear people championing the rights of d*unk people to choose whether to drive or not. That's a poor analogy. A d*unk has a reduced perception of risk due to being intoxicated. This isn't about championing a person's reasons for doing or not doing something that fits in with your beliefs or mine. It's about having the freedom to do what is right for them. Regardless of what you think is irresponsible. Me personally I will do what's right for me and the people around me. The person drove to the bar sober and then ordered drinks knowing that would put them over the limit. If your argument was valid people caught d*unk driving could offer diminished capacity as an excuse. But the point I was making was that it's a decision that affects others not just themselves. Would you agree that this virus owes it's entire existence to people who took the personal decision not to follow the rules? Over a million people have died because of the personal decision of others. In theory, with our knowledge on how to prevent the spread of the virus it should never have lasted anything more than two weeks. Again poor analogy. Drink driving is a crime and a poor choice . Refusing to take a vaccine isn't a crime however its a choice. I don't believe that choice should be taken from people and especially under the threat of removing their right to Treatment under the NHS. Isn't that the original point of the post? Drink driving wasn't mentioned Murder is a crime. But it's also a choice. Would you like to see it decriminalised? Whether you kill someone discriminately through premeditation or kill someone indiscriminately through your apathy, I don't see a difference. In fact in someways indiscriminate killing is worse. Over a million people have died because some people valued their comfort and convenience over someone else's life. You can dress that up any way you like but at the end of the day it's a choice to spread the virus or kill it. And if your choice is to spread the virus the the blood of the victims of Covid-19 is on your hands. You have taken your "right" to spread the virus over someone else's right to live, not to mention the impact your spreading of the virus has on the economy, mental heath, businesses, jobs, travel etc etc. Yet again the sort of attitude no one should have. Read the post from a girl who's been bullied at work. I think it's exactly people like you who are causing her distress. Yup, The holier than thou attitude across this forum is disgusting to be honest. Especially when people are posting about withholding medical treatment" Agreed! So many nasty bullies in here imo ! So much so I wont interact with them! Been bullied myself here on more than a few occasions hope the girl who been bullied at work is ok! Just really no need for it honestly!  x | |||
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"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? " No. E | |||
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"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? " if you have the vaccine you can still get covid anyway same as the flu vaccine . Take it if your unhealthy and don't if you are healthy , simples | |||
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"Let’s not treat drinkers smokers drug addicts and fat people as well ... save a fortune there Do thin people not get sick ?" generally thin people are healthier, as there liver seems to be Coping with the chemicals better, no fatty liver disease,no clogging up anywhere (generally , obviously there are exceptions ).most people are sick these days or making themselves sick but don't care or realise , one of the two, they go to doctors who pretty much know nothing about the human body so never get any better just get more pills , more disease and a painful death at the end. Eat organic Xx | |||
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"Let’s not treat drinkers smokers drug addicts and fat people as well ... save a fortune there Do thin people not get sick ?generally thin people are healthier, as there liver seems to be Coping with the chemicals better, no fatty liver disease,no clogging up anywhere (generally , obviously there are exceptions ).most people are sick these days or making themselves sick but don't care or realise , one of the two, they go to doctors who pretty much know nothing about the human body so never get any better just get more pills , more disease and a painful death at the end. Eat organic Xx " If drs dont know anything about the human body..they are doing a fairly good impression. | |||
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"Let’s not treat drinkers smokers drug addicts and fat people as well ... save a fortune there Do thin people not get sick ?generally thin people are healthier, as there liver seems to be Coping with the chemicals better, no fatty liver disease,no clogging up anywhere (generally , obviously there are exceptions ).most people are sick these days or making themselves sick but don't care or realise , one of the two, they go to doctors who pretty much know nothing about the human body so never get any better just get more pills , more disease and a painful death at the end. Eat organic Xx " This is not true. Lots of people are "skinny fat", as in they look thin but eat like shit so their arteries are clogged like crazy. I've also had thin colleagues with fatty liver disease, high blood pressure and high cholesterol. A friend of mine's dad had a heart attack at the ripe old age of 50 even though he eats super healthy and goes running every day. Thin people also aren't immune to mental health problems, cancers, hereditary diseases, addictions etc... I agree that being obese is dangerous and unhealthy but this shtick that thin people are paragons of health is absolute BS. | |||
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"No why should the NHS choose who they treat. The NHS is paid by the general public and because of this have a duty to treat the general pubic, if you start excluding groups then where do you stop, smokers, drinkers drug takers, mountaineers, those who take part in dangerous sports or even someone who crosses a road without using a zebra crossing." It's certainly a slippery slope and I cant see it happening. I did read somewhere that if were getting treatment for losing weights you had to agree to some conditions,but that's different. If something does happen like that, my guess it will be smokers you will be hit first. | |||
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"A lot of people read and then digest what they want and ignore other stuff. News papers are clever at showing you parts of something to start a flame with those who pick n choose. Talking of which petrol is flammable but it needs a spark or heat to cause it to ignite, yet we all drive around with this apparent petrol bomb under us without a second thought. Why? Because we know it's not damnable on its own. I'd look stupid going around telling people not to drive because they have a flammable liquid in it. "Never mind cars, most of our homes have gas pipes running through them, even hidden ones under the floors 
Stay home Boris said. Gas companies around the world applauded | |||
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"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? " Yes they go to tha ba k if the queue | |||
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"Let’s not treat drinkers smokers drug addicts and fat people as well ... save a fortune there Do thin people not get sick ?generally thin people are healthier, as there liver seems to be Coping with the chemicals better, no fatty liver disease,no clogging up anywhere (generally , obviously there are exceptions ).most people are sick these days or making themselves sick but don't care or realise , one of the two, they go to doctors who pretty much know nothing about the human body so never get any better just get more pills , more disease and a painful death at the end. Eat organic Xx If drs dont know anything about the human body..they are doing a fairly good impression. " example? | |||
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"Let’s not treat drinkers smokers drug addicts and fat people as well ... save a fortune there Do thin people not get sick ?generally thin people are healthier, as there liver seems to be Coping with the chemicals better, no fatty liver disease,no clogging up anywhere (generally , obviously there are exceptions ).most people are sick these days or making themselves sick but don't care or realise , one of the two, they go to doctors who pretty much know nothing about the human body so never get any better just get more pills , more disease and a painful death at the end. Eat organic Xx This is not true. Lots of people are "skinny fat", as in they look thin but eat like shit so their arteries are clogged like crazy. I've also had thin colleagues with fatty liver disease, high blood pressure and high cholesterol. A friend of mine's dad had a heart attack at the ripe old age of 50 even though he eats super healthy and goes running every day. Thin people also aren't immune to mental health problems, cancers, hereditary diseases, addictions etc... I agree that being obese is dangerous and unhealthy but this shtick that thin people are paragons of health is absolute BS. " like I said , obviously exceptions. You are exactly right , that's why I say eat organic , don't eat processed shit , you have a bit more chance and I also said most people are sick anyway, weather they are big or small | |||
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"Everyone has a choice regarding the vaccination. That choice shouldn't be swayed by threats of limited access to the NHS. The majority of those people will have paid into the same service and have a right to the best medical facilities in the world If it was only about you it would be a choice. But since it's something that effects others it's actually a responsibility. But as with wearing masks you have a choice to be responsible or irresponsible. Very much the same way a d*unk person has a choice to get behind the wheel of a car. I don't hear people championing the rights of d*unk people to choose whether to drive or not. Actually I think you will find that my choice is only about me. As is my behaviour and control over myself. I agree that my choice does have an impact on others but. I make that decision. Not you or anyone else" Well that's so profound. Choice by definition is something you have. If it is someone's choice to be selfish it's my choice to say as much. Why is your choice so sacred? I'm not holier than anyone. I believe in preventing unnecessary death whilst others don't care. I'd prefer to be some someone who's "holier than thou" than someone who kills others with my arrogance. | |||
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"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? " Treatment must be free to all. I think the anti-vax people, should have to pay for their jabs privately, if they miss their turn. The nhs, should not have to chase them, and try to convince them. It just costs our NHS extra money. | |||
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"Everyone has a choice regarding the vaccination. That choice shouldn't be swayed by threats of limited access to the NHS. The majority of those people will have paid into the same service and have a right to the best medical facilities in the world If it was only about you it would be a choice. But since it's something that effects others it's actually a responsibility. But as with wearing masks you have a choice to be responsible or irresponsible. Very much the same way a d*unk person has a choice to get behind the wheel of a car. I don't hear people championing the rights of d*unk people to choose whether to drive or not. Actually I think you will find that my choice is only about me. As is my behaviour and control over myself. I agree that my choice does have an impact on others but. I make that decision. Not you or anyone else Well that's so profound. Choice by definition is something you have. If it is someone's choice to be selfish it's my choice to say as much. Why is your choice so sacred? I'm not holier than anyone. I believe in preventing unnecessary death whilst others don't care. I'd prefer to be some someone who's "holier than thou" than someone who kills others with my arrogance. " The only profound ideology throughout this thread has been your ridiculous analogies. Ranging from drink driving to death from smallpox then moving onto STds. I think you will find it was other people on this thread who have made reference to your holier than thou attitude not me. However if the cap fits by all means wear it. Have a lovely evening | |||
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"Everyone has a choice regarding the vaccination. That choice shouldn't be swayed by threats of limited access to the NHS. The majority of those people will have paid into the same service and have a right to the best medical facilities in the world If it was only about you it would be a choice. But since it's something that effects others it's actually a responsibility. But as with wearing masks you have a choice to be responsible or irresponsible. Very much the same way a d*unk person has a choice to get behind the wheel of a car. I don't hear people championing the rights of d*unk people to choose whether to drive or not. Actually I think you will find that my choice is only about me. As is my behaviour and control over myself. I agree that my choice does have an impact on others but. I make that decision. Not you or anyone else Well that's so profound. Choice by definition is something you have. If it is someone's choice to be selfish it's my choice to say as much. Why is your choice so sacred? I'm not holier than anyone. I believe in preventing unnecessary death whilst others don't care. I'd prefer to be some someone who's "holier than thou" than someone who kills others with my arrogance. The only profound ideology throughout this thread has been your ridiculous analogies. Ranging from drink driving to death from smallpox then moving onto STds. I think you will find it was other people on this thread who have made reference to your holier than thou attitude not me. However if the cap fits by all means wear it. Have a lovely evening "Sadly he is not alone | |||
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"Everyone has a choice regarding the vaccination. That choice shouldn't be swayed by threats of limited access to the NHS. The majority of those people will have paid into the same service and have a right to the best medical facilities in the world If it was only about you it would be a choice. But since it's something that effects others it's actually a responsibility. But as with wearing masks you have a choice to be responsible or irresponsible. Very much the same way a d*unk person has a choice to get behind the wheel of a car. I don't hear people championing the rights of d*unk people to choose whether to drive or not. Actually I think you will find that my choice is only about me. As is my behaviour and control over myself. I agree that my choice does have an impact on others but. I make that decision. Not you or anyone else Well that's so profound. Choice by definition is something you have. If it is someone's choice to be selfish it's my choice to say as much. Why is your choice so sacred? I'm not holier than anyone. I believe in preventing unnecessary death whilst others don't care. I'd prefer to be some someone who's "holier than thou" than someone who kills others with my arrogance. The only profound ideology throughout this thread has been your ridiculous analogies. Ranging from drink driving to death from smallpox then moving onto STds. I think you will find it was other people on this thread who have made reference to your holier than thou attitude not me. However if the cap fits by all means wear it. Have a lovely evening "Think what you want. I am a person who wants this virus to end. It shouldn't even need an argument. Everyone should want this. You get offended by me challenging people's choices about getting vaccinated and then go on about what choice of analogy I use. I didn't say it was you. But you are on a swingers site. You can't swing because of the virus. Yet you want the virus to continue. What a massive contradiction in idiology. If my analogies are so weak then poke holes in them. Belittling them just shows you have nothing. If you can't see the comparison between a d*unk driver and a person who spreads the virus, go ask the family of a victim of d*unk driving about that d*unk driver's right to choose. And then talk to a family of someone who lost their lives to a virus that was spread by someone who felt too entitled to wear a mask or take a jab. | |||
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"Everyone has a choice regarding the vaccination. That choice shouldn't be swayed by threats of limited access to the NHS. The majority of those people will have paid into the same service and have a right to the best medical facilities in the world If it was only about you it would be a choice. But since it's something that effects others it's actually a responsibility. But as with wearing masks you have a choice to be responsible or irresponsible. Very much the same way a d*unk person has a choice to get behind the wheel of a car. I don't hear people championing the rights of d*unk people to choose whether to drive or not. Actually I think you will find that my choice is only about me. As is my behaviour and control over myself. I agree that my choice does have an impact on others but. I make that decision. Not you or anyone else Well that's so profound. Choice by definition is something you have. If it is someone's choice to be selfish it's my choice to say as much. Why is your choice so sacred? I'm not holier than anyone. I believe in preventing unnecessary death whilst others don't care. I'd prefer to be some someone who's "holier than thou" than someone who kills others with my arrogance. The only profound ideology throughout this thread has been your ridiculous analogies. Ranging from drink driving to death from smallpox then moving onto STds. I think you will find it was other people on this thread who have made reference to your holier than thou attitude not me. However if the cap fits by all means wear it. Have a lovely evening
Sadly he is not alone "Yeah I've got a shitty attitude. I want this virus to end. I want people to stop getting sick and dying. I'm a monster!!! Unlike the saints on here who want to perpetuate this virus, continue having people dying, more lockdowns, more economic disaster etc. You must be so proud!!! Love how you have just turned it all around. If you guys have all the answers then why are you burying your dead? | |||
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"Too many people whingeing about civil liberties forgetting civil responsibilities...." | |||
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"Everyone has a choice regarding the vaccination. That choice shouldn't be swayed by threats of limited access to the NHS. The majority of those people will have paid into the same service and have a right to the best medical facilities in the world If it was only about you it would be a choice. But since it's something that effects others it's actually a responsibility. But as with wearing masks you have a choice to be responsible or irresponsible. Very much the same way a d*unk person has a choice to get behind the wheel of a car. I don't hear people championing the rights of d*unk people to choose whether to drive or not. Actually I think you will find that my choice is only about me. As is my behaviour and control over myself. I agree that my choice does have an impact on others but. I make that decision. Not you or anyone else Well that's so profound. Choice by definition is something you have. If it is someone's choice to be selfish it's my choice to say as much. Why is your choice so sacred? I'm not holier than anyone. I believe in preventing unnecessary death whilst others don't care. I'd prefer to be some someone who's "holier than thou" than someone who kills others with my arrogance. The only profound ideology throughout this thread has been your ridiculous analogies. Ranging from drink driving to death from smallpox then moving onto STds. I think you will find it was other people on this thread who have made reference to your holier than thou attitude not me. However if the cap fits by all means wear it. Have a lovely evening
Think what you want. I am a person who wants this virus to end. It shouldn't even need an argument. Everyone should want this.
You get offended by me challenging people's choices about getting vaccinated and then go on about what choice of analogy I use.
I didn't say it was you. But you are on a swingers site. You can't swing because of the virus. Yet you want the virus to continue. What a massive contradiction in idiology.
If my analogies are so weak then poke holes in them. Belittling them just shows you have nothing. If you can't see the comparison between a d*unk driver and a person who spreads the virus, go ask the family of a victim of d*unk driving about that d*unk driver's right to choose. And then talk to a family of someone who lost their lives to a virus that was spread by someone who felt too entitled to wear a mask or take a jab."I'm not offended in the slightest. I just don't agree with your viewpoint in respect of the original post. The fact you've chosen various angles to get your point accross would suggest your viewpoint is flawed in my opinion. The only part in all this pandemic you and I have control of is our behaviour and our choice. That's a fact. You will note that I have refrained from judging anyone for their choice to take the vaccination or not. You on the other hand have. You are right about one thing this is a swinger's site and thrives on people meeting. It also thrives on people being non judgemental. The irony of which will probably be lost on you | |||
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"Everyone has a choice regarding the vaccination. That choice shouldn't be swayed by threats of limited access to the NHS. The majority of those people will have paid into the same service and have a right to the best medical facilities in the world If it was only about you it would be a choice. But since it's something that effects others it's actually a responsibility. But as with wearing masks you have a choice to be responsible or irresponsible. Very much the same way a d*unk person has a choice to get behind the wheel of a car. I don't hear people championing the rights of d*unk people to choose whether to drive or not. Actually I think you will find that my choice is only about me. As is my behaviour and control over myself. I agree that my choice does have an impact on others but. I make that decision. Not you or anyone else Well that's so profound. Choice by definition is something you have. If it is someone's choice to be selfish it's my choice to say as much. Why is your choice so sacred? I'm not holier than anyone. I believe in preventing unnecessary death whilst others don't care. I'd prefer to be some someone who's "holier than thou" than someone who kills others with my arrogance. The only profound ideology throughout this thread has been your ridiculous analogies. Ranging from drink driving to death from smallpox then moving onto STds. I think you will find it was other people on this thread who have made reference to your holier than thou attitude not me. However if the cap fits by all means wear it. Have a lovely evening
Sadly he is not alone
Yeah I've got a shitty attitude. I want this virus to end. I want people to stop getting sick and dying. I'm a monster!!!
Unlike the saints on here who want to perpetuate this virus, continue having people dying, more lockdowns, more economic disaster etc. You must be so proud!!!
Love how you have just turned it all around.
If you guys have all the answers then why are you burying your dead? "Wow | |||
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"Everyone has a choice regarding the vaccination. That choice shouldn't be swayed by threats of limited access to the NHS. The majority of those people will have paid into the same service and have a right to the best medical facilities in the world If it was only about you it would be a choice. But since it's something that effects others it's actually a responsibility. But as with wearing masks you have a choice to be responsible or irresponsible. Very much the same way a d*unk person has a choice to get behind the wheel of a car. I don't hear people championing the rights of d*unk people to choose whether to drive or not. Actually I think you will find that my choice is only about me. As is my behaviour and control over myself. I agree that my choice does have an impact on others but. I make that decision. Not you or anyone else Well that's so profound. Choice by definition is something you have. If it is someone's choice to be selfish it's my choice to say as much. Why is your choice so sacred? I'm not holier than anyone. I believe in preventing unnecessary death whilst others don't care. I'd prefer to be some someone who's "holier than thou" than someone who kills others with my arrogance. The only profound ideology throughout this thread has been your ridiculous analogies. Ranging from drink driving to death from smallpox then moving onto STds. I think you will find it was other people on this thread who have made reference to your holier than thou attitude not me. However if the cap fits by all means wear it. Have a lovely evening
Think what you want. I am a person who wants this virus to end. It shouldn't even need an argument. Everyone should want this.
You get offended by me challenging people's choices about getting vaccinated and then go on about what choice of analogy I use.
I didn't say it was you. But you are on a swingers site. You can't swing because of the virus. Yet you want the virus to continue. What a massive contradiction in idiology.
If my analogies are so weak then poke holes in them. Belittling them just shows you have nothing. If you can't see the comparison between a d*unk driver and a person who spreads the virus, go ask the family of a victim of d*unk driving about that d*unk driver's right to choose. And then talk to a family of someone who lost their lives to a virus that was spread by someone who felt too entitled to wear a mask or take a jab.
I'm not offended in the slightest. I just don't agree with your viewpoint in respect of the original post.
The fact you've chosen various angles to get your point accross would suggest your viewpoint is flawed in my opinion. The only part in all this pandemic you and I have control of is our behaviour and our choice. That's a fact. You will note that I have refrained from judging anyone for their choice to take the vaccination or not. You on the other hand have. You are right about one thing this is a swinger's site and thrives on people meeting. It also thrives on people being non judgemental. The irony of which will probably be lost on you "Perhaps then, you should take up with Admin their holier than thou attitude of preventing meets, verifications, club reviews etc since they are taking away your choice to overload the NHS. Actually I have been on this site and swinging long enough to know that swingers (and yes ironically) are the most judgemental of all. If you don't believe me just do a search on male bisexuality and transgenderism. Yes I'm judgemental. I an against anyone who harms someone else. Be it through intentional action such as assault or through indescriminate action such as spreading a deadly disease for no good reason. Perhaps that makes me a bad person in the land where not giving a damn about your fellow man is the norm (as daily infection rates prove). | |||
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"Please close this thread "Close the virus section of the forum would be better. | |||
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"As someone who works in drug and vaccine development,compulsory vaccination is abhorrent. People need to assess their individual risk and need and make their decision. Education and transparency is essential and noone should be forced into it." Hallelujah the point I've been trying to make. Why on earth would anyone refuse to take the vaccination under the guise of wanting this pandemic to thrive. That's a warped viewpoint | |||
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"As someone who works in drug and vaccine development,compulsory vaccination is abhorrent. People need to assess their individual risk and need and make their decision. Education and transparency is essential and noone should be forced into it." Gradually, a significant portion of the population will be vaccinated to return to "normal" public life. This will lead to collective immunity and a final end to the pandemic. Unfortunately, social measures, not scientific ones, will make those hesitant to get vaccinated | |||
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"I'd like to think that everyone who can take the vaccine will, and to be blunt, I've not heard a single sensible reason not to do so. However, if we were to remove hospital care for those who do not take it, would we then say that anyone who gets a football injury or hurts themselves whilst d*unk get no treatment as well? The worst they should expect to get is a 'we told you so' and a salutory lesson in information discrimination." I think denying anyone medical care is barbaric tbh. We can treat serial killers and terrorists but not anti-vaxxers?! 
Although I will say, I hope that anyone who is ill enough to need hospitalisation after denying the vaccine would then do their part in sharing their stories and encouraging others to stop the spread | |||
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"We wont be getting it and we dont see why we should. When its flu season we just use commonsense to protect the vulnerable, now we freak out over a virus with a 99% survival rate, and when you say that even though it's a positive ppl get really angry. " Good for you both, we aren’t either. Angry people are fearful people. To us its common sense and there’s too many obvious reasons not to - not taking medical advice from self interested career politicians for a start, or believing ridiculously flawed data and propaganda. Also, some open source research about those involved reveals all you need to know. Ironically for a swingers forum there’s a lot of closed minded people on here who sound like they’d be more comfortable living in North Korea. Remember that famous picture of that group of german workers doing the nazi salute and that lone german guy (who’s GF was Jewish) just standing with his arms folded - now is the time to be that guy. | |||
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"Too many people whingeing about civil liberties forgetting civil responsibilities...." No they are ‘whinging’ about disproportionate impact on civil liberties due to a disproportionate reaction to a virus that has more than a 99% survival rate. That is irresponsible. | |||
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"Here's my viepoint. You have this "freedom" because some time ago young men charged machine guns on beaches, flew planes through skies full of flack to preserve your liberty. Without them we'd all be part of the Third Reich. Did they do it because charging a machine gun was fun or was it social responsibility? Today all those people ask to give them what life they have left, is to wear a mask and get a jab. The aren't asking much, but sadly it's just too much too ask from a generation that are just spoiled brats. Yes, you are in a majority. You voted for Boris, you voted, for Brexit and you've killed more of your own through arrogance than just about any other country in Europe. You might think it's a good track record but actually it's made you a laughing stock. Seriously. It's embarrassing. " What a completely irrational mess of an argument. Re read it yourself and work it out | |||
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"It’s like fabbook "I know. I was gonna go to bed, but this is great | |||
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"Here's my viepoint. You have this "freedom" because some time ago young men charged machine guns on beaches, flew planes through skies full of flack to preserve your liberty. Without them we'd all be part of the Third Reich. Did they do it because charging a machine gun was fun or was it social responsibility? Today all those people ask to give them what life they have left, is to wear a mask and get a jab. The aren't asking much, but sadly it's just too much too ask from a generation that are just spoiled brats. Yes, you are in a majority. You voted for Boris, you voted, for Brexit and you've killed more of your own through arrogance than just about any other country in Europe. You might think it's a good track record but actually it's made you a laughing stock. Seriously. It's embarrassing. What a completely irrational mess of an argument. Re read it yourself and work it out" Lmao you know the argument's lost when someone tells you to work it out yourself instead of countering with real legit points  
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"Smokers shouldn't then be treated for any smoking related illnesses. Think of all the billions the NHS would save, think of all the spare beds that would be available in hospices and waiting times for many operations and cancer treatments would be reduced. " So we should also not treat alcoholics for related problems or athletes that are injured as its a lifestyle choice. | |||
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"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of a vaccination is not to protect yourself but to prevent the spread to someone else who may not be in a state to fight it off. It's actually a moral choice. Do you care enough about your fellow human to save his or her life with a jab. If you a person drowning would you throw that person a life buoy or walk away and say "it's not my problem". Don't bother answering, because it's already apparent that so many people aren't prepared to wear a mask to save someone else's life. The day someone else dies for your obesity, smoking habit etc etc. Then it becomes a fair comparison. " No this vaccine almost certainly doesn't prevent spread it only protects the individual which is exactly why it's being given to the most risk of dying or serious illness 1st. | |||
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"I’m a mother of an adult child with a physical disability a single parent ... so I’m supposed to think of everybody else and have a vaccine that’s been rushed through ... anybody volunteering here to look after him when I become ill from a vaccine and I have no comeback from it No I didn’t think so !!!! I have a hearty immune system that does the job thank you !! " But that doesn't make any sense because your more likely to get ill from the virus. I don't understand your point of view at all. | |||
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"Too many people whingeing about civil liberties forgetting civil responsibilities.... No they are ‘whinging’ about disproportionate impact on civil liberties due to a disproportionate reaction to a virus that has more than a 99% survival rate. That is irresponsible." What civil liberties are being impacted then if you can say yes or no..?? None..... Maybe it’s your sensibilities that are being impacted.. | |||
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"Too many people whingeing about civil liberties forgetting civil responsibilities.... No they are ‘whinging’ about disproportionate impact on civil liberties due to a disproportionate reaction to a virus that has more than a 99% survival rate. That is irresponsible. What civil liberties are being impacted then if you can say yes or no..?? None..... Maybe it’s your sensibilities that are being impacted.." | |||
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"Potentially a controversial thought but... People are saying it's their free choice to have the vaccine or not. Excluding those who are medically advised not to have it. If someone chooses not to take it when it is their turn, should the NHS refuse to treat the individual for covid should they get Covid? It would still be the individual's choice. Life's a Gamble? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of a vaccination is not to protect yourself but to prevent the spread to someone else who may not be in a state to fight it off. It's actually a moral choice. Do you care enough about your fellow human to save his or her life with a jab. If you a person drowning would you throw that person a life buoy or walk away and say "it's not my problem". Don't bother answering, because it's already apparent that so many people aren't prepared to wear a mask to save someone else's life. The day someone else dies for your obesity, smoking habit etc etc. Then it becomes a fair comparison. Their are a lot of people who have died from secondary smoke And hence smoking laws." I agree with all you have said. As a nurse who picked covid up from work and is usually well ..i still am coughing ..no taste or smell and frankly want the vaccine to have some sort of life again. | |||
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"Should someone who gets side effects from the vaccine be refused NHS treatment because it was a self inflicted injury." That's a very interesting point. | |||
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"Everyone has a choice regarding the vaccination. That choice shouldn't be swayed by threats of limited access to the NHS. The majority of those people will have paid into the same service and have a right to the best medical facilities in the world If it was only about you it would be a choice. But since it's something that effects others it's actually a responsibility. But as with wearing masks you have a choice to be responsible or irresponsible. Very much the same way a d*unk person has a choice to get behind the wheel of a car. I don't hear people championing the rights of d*unk people to choose whether to drive or not. That's a poor analogy. A d*unk has a reduced perception of risk due to being intoxicated. This isn't about championing a person's reasons for doing or not doing something that fits in with your beliefs or mine. It's about having the freedom to do what is right for them. Regardless of what you think is irresponsible. Me personally I will do what's right for me and the people around me. The person drove to the bar sober and then ordered drinks knowing that would put them over the limit. If your argument was valid people caught d*unk driving could offer diminished capacity as an excuse. But the point I was making was that it's a decision that affects others not just themselves. Would you agree that this virus owes it's entire existence to people who took the personal decision not to follow the rules? Over a million people have died because of the personal decision of others. In theory, with our knowledge on how to prevent the spread of the virus it should never have lasted anything more than two weeks. Again poor analogy. Drink driving is a crime and a poor choice . Refusing to take a vaccine isn't a crime however its a choice. I don't believe that choice should be taken from people and especially under the threat of removing their right to Treatment under the NHS. Isn't that the original point of the post? Drink driving wasn't mentioned Murder is a crime. But it's also a choice. Would you like to see it decriminalised? Whether you kill someone discriminately through premeditation or kill someone indiscriminately through your apathy, I don't see a difference. In fact in someways indiscriminate killing is worse. Over a million people have died because some people valued their comfort and convenience over someone else's life. You can dress that up any way you like but at the end of the day it's a choice to spread the virus or kill it. And if your choice is to spread the virus the the blood of the victims of Covid-19 is on your hands. You have taken your "right" to spread the virus over someone else's right to live, not to mention the impact your spreading of the virus has on the economy, mental heath, businesses, jobs, travel etc etc. Yet again the sort of attitude no one should have. Read the post from a girl who's been bullied at work. I think it's exactly people like you who are causing her distress. Yup, The holier than thou attitude across this forum is disgusting to be honest. Especially when people are posting about withholding medical treatment Agreed! So many nasty bullies in here imo ! So much so I wont interact with them! Been bullied myself here on more than a few occasions hope the girl who been bullied at work is ok! Just really no need for it honestly! x"Let's not forget those who are advocating various sanctions, eg travel etc. I'm heartily sick of the pro vaxxers holier than thou attitude and bullying tactics. If you want it, have it if you don't, then don't. It really is very simple. I won't be having it but will not judge those who do, it's thier choice. And I'm not anti vax, it's just this one I won't be having and I don't feel the need to justify myself either. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Everyone has a choice regarding the vaccination. That choice shouldn't be swayed by threats of limited access to the NHS. The majority of those people will have paid into the same service and have a right to the best medical facilities in the world If it was only about you it would be a choice. But since it's something that effects others it's actually a responsibility. But as with wearing masks you have a choice to be responsible or irresponsible. Very much the same way a d*unk person has a choice to get behind the wheel of a car. I don't hear people championing the rights of d*unk people to choose whether to drive or not. That's a poor analogy. A d*unk has a reduced perception of risk due to being intoxicated. This isn't about championing a person's reasons for doing or not doing something that fits in with your beliefs or mine. It's about having the freedom to do what is right for them. Regardless of what you think is irresponsible. Me personally I will do what's right for me and the people around me. The person drove to the bar sober and then ordered drinks knowing that would put them over the limit. If your argument was valid people caught d*unk driving could offer diminished capacity as an excuse. But the point I was making was that it's a decision that affects others not just themselves. Would you agree that this virus owes it's entire existence to people who took the personal decision not to follow the rules? Over a million people have died because of the personal decision of others. In theory, with our knowledge on how to prevent the spread of the virus it should never have lasted anything more than two weeks. Again poor analogy. Drink driving is a crime and a poor choice . Refusing to take a vaccine isn't a crime however its a choice. I don't believe that choice should be taken from people and especially under the threat of removing their right to Treatment under the NHS. Isn't that the original point of the post? Drink driving wasn't mentioned Murder is a crime. But it's also a choice. Would you like to see it decriminalised? Whether you kill someone discriminately through premeditation or kill someone indiscriminately through your apathy, I don't see a difference. In fact in someways indiscriminate killing is worse. Over a million people have died because some people valued their comfort and convenience over someone else's life. You can dress that up any way you like but at the end of the day it's a choice to spread the virus or kill it. And if your choice is to spread the virus the the blood of the victims of Covid-19 is on your hands. You have taken your "right" to spread the virus over someone else's right to live, not to mention the impact your spreading of the virus has on the economy, mental heath, businesses, jobs, travel etc etc. Yet again the sort of attitude no one should have. Read the post from a girl who's been bullied at work. I think it's exactly people like you who are causing her distress. Yup, The holier than thou attitude across this forum is disgusting to be honest. Especially when people are posting about withholding medical treatment Agreed! So many nasty bullies in here imo ! So much so I wont interact with them! Been bullied myself here on more than a few occasions hope the girl who been bullied at work is ok! Just really no need for it honestly! x
Let's not forget those who are advocating various sanctions, eg travel etc. I'm heartily sick of the pro vaxxers holier than thou attitude and bullying tactics. If you want it, have it if you don't, then don't. It really is very simple. I won't be having it but will not judge those who do, it's thier choice. And I'm not anti vax, it's just this one I won't be having and I don't feel the need to justify myself either."Be careful there are people on here who would have you judged and sentenced for murder, for excersizing your choice not to have it | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Everyone has a choice regarding the vaccination. That choice shouldn't be swayed by threats of limited access to the NHS. The majority of those people will have paid into the same service and have a right to the best medical facilities in the world If it was only about you it would be a choice. But since it's something that effects others it's actually a responsibility. But as with wearing masks you have a choice to be responsible or irresponsible. Very much the same way a d*unk person has a choice to get behind the wheel of a car. I don't hear people championing the rights of d*unk people to choose whether to drive or not. That's a poor analogy. A d*unk has a reduced perception of risk due to being intoxicated. This isn't about championing a person's reasons for doing or not doing something that fits in with your beliefs or mine. It's about having the freedom to do what is right for them. Regardless of what you think is irresponsible. Me personally I will do what's right for me and the people around me. The person drove to the bar sober and then ordered drinks knowing that would put them over the limit. If your argument was valid people caught d*unk driving could offer diminished capacity as an excuse. But the point I was making was that it's a decision that affects others not just themselves. Would you agree that this virus owes it's entire existence to people who took the personal decision not to follow the rules? Over a million people have died because of the personal decision of others. In theory, with our knowledge on how to prevent the spread of the virus it should never have lasted anything more than two weeks. Again poor analogy. Drink driving is a crime and a poor choice . Refusing to take a vaccine isn't a crime however its a choice. I don't believe that choice should be taken from people and especially under the threat of removing their right to Treatment under the NHS. Isn't that the original point of the post? Drink driving wasn't mentioned Murder is a crime. But it's also a choice. Would you like to see it decriminalised? Whether you kill someone discriminately through premeditation or kill someone indiscriminately through your apathy, I don't see a difference. In fact in someways indiscriminate killing is worse. Over a million people have died because some people valued their comfort and convenience over someone else's life. You can dress that up any way you like but at the end of the day it's a choice to spread the virus or kill it. And if your choice is to spread the virus the the blood of the victims of Covid-19 is on your hands. You have taken your "right" to spread the virus over someone else's right to live, not to mention the impact your spreading of the virus has on the economy, mental heath, businesses, jobs, travel etc etc. Yet again the sort of attitude no one should have. Read the post from a girl who's been bullied at work. I think it's exactly people like you who are causing her distress. Yup, The holier than thou attitude across this forum is disgusting to be honest. Especially when people are posting about withholding medical treatment Agreed! So many nasty bullies in here imo ! So much so I wont interact with them! Been bullied myself here on more than a few occasions hope the girl who been bullied at work is ok! Just really no need for it honestly! x
Let's not forget those who are advocating various sanctions, eg travel etc. I'm heartily sick of the pro vaxxers holier than thou attitude and bullying tactics. If you want it, have it if you don't, then don't. It really is very simple. I won't be having it but will not judge those who do, it's thier choice. And I'm not anti vax, it's just this one I won't be having and I don't feel the need to justify myself either.
Be careful there are people on here who would have you judged and sentenced for murder, for excersizing your choice not to have it "I know, this has happened many times already lol. I'm sick of the whole debate and bullying tactics tbh. People need to live and let live. Judgment is not required. I wish they would actually remove this virus forum altogether as all it seems to do is set people against each other. | |||
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"Too many people whingeing about civil liberties forgetting civil responsibilities.... No they are ‘whinging’ about disproportionate impact on civil liberties due to a disproportionate reaction to a virus that has more than a 99% survival rate. That is irresponsible." According to Worldometers it's a 97% survival rate. You know you've got a lousy argument when you have to invent false statistics. 1,575,819 have died from COVID-19. And if that isn't a problem for you there's something seriously wrong with your moral compass. | |||
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"Here's my viepoint. You have this "freedom" because some time ago young men charged machine guns on beaches, flew planes through skies full of flack to preserve your liberty. Without them we'd all be part of the Third Reich. Did they do it because charging a machine gun was fun or was it social responsibility? Today all those people ask to give them what life they have left, is to wear a mask and get a jab. The aren't asking much, but sadly it's just too much too ask from a generation that are just spoiled brats. Yes, you are in a majority. You voted for Boris, you voted, for Brexit and you've killed more of your own through arrogance than just about any other country in Europe. You might think it's a good track record but actually it's made you a laughing stock. Seriously. It's embarrassing. What a completely irrational mess of an argument. Re read it yourself and work it out" Belittling someone's point of view is not a counter argument. It's an infantile, lazy response. | |||
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"Too many people whingeing about civil liberties forgetting civil responsibilities.... No they are ‘whinging’ about disproportionate impact on civil liberties due to a disproportionate reaction to a virus that has more than a 99% survival rate. That is irresponsible. According to Worldometers it's a 97% survival rate. You know you've got a lousy argument when you have to invent false statistics. 1,575,819 have died from COVID-19. And if that isn't a problem for you there's something seriously wrong with your moral compass. " Being a site for sexual hook up's I would also be concerned about the 1,585,480 deaths from HIV/AIDS this year  | |||
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"Too many people whingeing about civil liberties forgetting civil responsibilities.... No they are ‘whinging’ about disproportionate impact on civil liberties due to a disproportionate reaction to a virus that has more than a 99% survival rate. That is irresponsible. According to Worldometers it's a 97% survival rate. You know you've got a lousy argument when you have to invent false statistics. 1,575,819 have died from COVID-19. And if that isn't a problem for you there's something seriously wrong with your moral compass. Being a site for sexual hook up's I would also be concerned about the 1,585,480 deaths from HIV/AIDS this year "Absolutely. I have always advocated safe sex. But good analogy. Being a conduit for the spread of HIV/AIDS in the age of PREP is similar to being a conduit for the spread of Covid-19 in the age of vaccines. | |||
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"Everyone has a choice regarding the vaccination. That choice shouldn't be swayed by threats of limited access to the NHS. The majority of those people will have paid into the same service and have a right to the best medical facilities in the world If it was only about you it would be a choice. But since it's something that effects others it's actually a responsibility. But as with wearing masks you have a choice to be responsible or irresponsible. Very much the same way a d*unk person has a choice to get behind the wheel of a car. I don't hear people championing the rights of d*unk people to choose whether to drive or not. That's a poor analogy. A d*unk has a reduced perception of risk due to being intoxicated. This isn't about championing a person's reasons for doing or not doing something that fits in with your beliefs or mine. It's about having the freedom to do what is right for them. Regardless of what you think is irresponsible. Me personally I will do what's right for me and the people around me. The person drove to the bar sober and then ordered drinks knowing that would put them over the limit. If your argument was valid people caught d*unk driving could offer diminished capacity as an excuse. But the point I was making was that it's a decision that affects others not just themselves. Would you agree that this virus owes it's entire existence to people who took the personal decision not to follow the rules? Over a million people have died because of the personal decision of others. In theory, with our knowledge on how to prevent the spread of the virus it should never have lasted anything more than two weeks. Again poor analogy. Drink driving is a crime and a poor choice . Refusing to take a vaccine isn't a crime however its a choice. I don't believe that choice should be taken from people and especially under the threat of removing their right to Treatment under the NHS. Isn't that the original point of the post? Drink driving wasn't mentioned Murder is a crime. But it's also a choice. Would you like to see it decriminalised? Whether you kill someone discriminately through premeditation or kill someone indiscriminately through your apathy, I don't see a difference. In fact in someways indiscriminate killing is worse. Over a million people have died because some people valued their comfort and convenience over someone else's life. You can dress that up any way you like but at the end of the day it's a choice to spread the virus or kill it. And if your choice is to spread the virus the the blood of the victims of Covid-19 is on your hands. You have taken your "right" to spread the virus over someone else's right to live, not to mention the impact your spreading of the virus has on the economy, mental heath, businesses, jobs, travel etc etc. Yet again the sort of attitude no one should have. Read the post from a girl who's been bullied at work. I think it's exactly people like you who are causing her distress. Yup, The holier than thou attitude across this forum is disgusting to be honest. Especially when people are posting about withholding medical treatment Agreed! So many nasty bullies in here imo ! So much so I wont interact with them! Been bullied myself here on more than a few occasions hope the girl who been bullied at work is ok! Just really no need for it honestly! x
Let's not forget those who are advocating various sanctions, eg travel etc. I'm heartily sick of the pro vaxxers holier than thou attitude and bullying tactics. If you want it, have it if you don't, then don't. It really is very simple. I won't be having it but will not judge those who do, it's thier choice. And I'm not anti vax, it's just this one I won't be having and I don't feel the need to justify myself either.
Be careful there are people on here who would have you judged and sentenced for murder, for excersizing your choice not to have it
I know, this has happened many times already lol. I'm sick of the whole debate and bullying tactics tbh. People need to live and let live. Judgment is not required. I wish they would actually remove this virus forum altogether as all it seems to do is set people against each other. "It's inadvertently been a triumph having this forum. What a great conduit it's been for revealing the true nature of people. For example, I can immediately see those who might otherwise sidle up in my inbox with all kinds of fake flattery, in the same breath on this forum call me expendable or constantly refer to me and those I hold dearest as "only". | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Everyone has a choice regarding the vaccination. That choice shouldn't be swayed by threats of limited access to the NHS. The majority of those people will have paid into the same service and have a right to the best medical facilities in the world If it was only about you it would be a choice. But since it's something that effects others it's actually a responsibility. But as with wearing masks you have a choice to be responsible or irresponsible. Very much the same way a d*unk person has a choice to get behind the wheel of a car. I don't hear people championing the rights of d*unk people to choose whether to drive or not. That's a poor analogy. A d*unk has a reduced perception of risk due to being intoxicated. This isn't about championing a person's reasons for doing or not doing something that fits in with your beliefs or mine. It's about having the freedom to do what is right for them. Regardless of what you think is irresponsible. Me personally I will do what's right for me and the people around me. The person drove to the bar sober and then ordered drinks knowing that would put them over the limit. If your argument was valid people caught d*unk driving could offer diminished capacity as an excuse. But the point I was making was that it's a decision that affects others not just themselves. Would you agree that this virus owes it's entire existence to people who took the personal decision not to follow the rules? Over a million people have died because of the personal decision of others. In theory, with our knowledge on how to prevent the spread of the virus it should never have lasted anything more than two weeks. Again poor analogy. Drink driving is a crime and a poor choice . Refusing to take a vaccine isn't a crime however its a choice. I don't believe that choice should be taken from people and especially under the threat of removing their right to Treatment under the NHS. Isn't that the original point of the post? Drink driving wasn't mentioned Murder is a crime. But it's also a choice. Would you like to see it decriminalised? Whether you kill someone discriminately through premeditation or kill someone indiscriminately through your apathy, I don't see a difference. In fact in someways indiscriminate killing is worse. Over a million people have died because some people valued their comfort and convenience over someone else's life. You can dress that up any way you like but at the end of the day it's a choice to spread the virus or kill it. And if your choice is to spread the virus the the blood of the victims of Covid-19 is on your hands. You have taken your "right" to spread the virus over someone else's right to live, not to mention the impact your spreading of the virus has on the economy, mental heath, businesses, jobs, travel etc etc. Yet again the sort of attitude no one should have. Read the post from a girl who's been bullied at work. I think it's exactly people like you who are causing her distress. Yup, The holier than thou attitude across this forum is disgusting to be honest. Especially when people are posting about withholding medical treatment Agreed! So many nasty bullies in here imo ! So much so I wont interact with them! Been bullied myself here on more than a few occasions hope the girl who been bullied at work is ok! Just really no need for it honestly! x
Let's not forget those who are advocating various sanctions, eg travel etc. I'm heartily sick of the pro vaxxers holier than thou attitude and bullying tactics. If you want it, have it if you don't, then don't. It really is very simple. I won't be having it but will not judge those who do, it's thier choice. And I'm not anti vax, it's just this one I won't be having and I don't feel the need to justify myself either.
Be careful there are people on here who would have you judged and sentenced for murder, for excersizing your choice not to have it
I know, this has happened many times already lol. I'm sick of the whole debate and bullying tactics tbh. People need to live and let live. Judgment is not required. I wish they would actually remove this virus forum altogether as all it seems to do is set people against each other.
It's inadvertently been a triumph having this forum. What a great conduit it's been for revealing the true nature of people. For example, I can immediately see those who might otherwise sidle up in my inbox with all kinds of fake flattery, in the same breath on this forum call me expendable or constantly refer to me and those I hold dearest as "only". "I hasn't thought of it like that tbh. | |||
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"I love this thread. People defending their right to kill others because it's their choice. And then complaining because someone else excercised their choice to point out how selfish they are. If your attitude is "I'll do what I want because I only care about myself" then don't burst into tears when someone else hurts your feelings. " You do understand that the vaccine does not stop you spreading it and thus killing others as you say. Or maybe you haven't learnt that, not that it's been all over the news lately either. So I don't follow your argument. Please explain why if you have the vaccine it suddenly makes you a non killer and someone who chooses not to a killer? | |||
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"I love this thread. People defending their right to kill others because it's their choice. And then complaining because someone else excercised their choice to point out how selfish they are. If your attitude is "I'll do what I want because I only care about myself" then don't burst into tears when someone else hurts your feelings. You do understand that the vaccine does not stop you spreading it and thus killing others as you say. Or maybe you haven't learnt that, not that it's been all over the news lately either. So I don't follow your argument. Please explain why if you have the vaccine it suddenly makes you a non killer and someone who chooses not to a killer?" | |||
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"People have the freedom. To choose... Hmmm..in 12 months time, when we've all been exercising our freedom... When our infection rates are so high that others won't want to come here or allow us to go there, when the economy is on its knees... When we have turned ourselves into a nation who can't take care of itself... We may look back and wonder if a little sacrifice of wearing a mask, moderating our behaviour a little bit and having a jab were prices worth paying. " That isn't a likely scenario. The virus has all but died down in a number of countries and no vaccine has been used yet. This is simply due to respect towards others and adherence to social distancing, masks and washing, so putting in the insistance that not having the jab will be the cause is a little rich. The economy, well every economy is suffering and I can't see why ours will be worse than any others as a result of the pandemic. But I'll stand to be corrected in a year's time. | |||
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"I love this thread. People defending their right to kill others because it's their choice. And then complaining because someone else excercised their choice to point out how selfish they are. If your attitude is "I'll do what I want because I only care about myself" then don't burst into tears when someone else hurts your feelings. You do understand that the vaccine does not stop you spreading it and thus killing others as you say. Or maybe you haven't learnt that, not that it's been all over the news lately either. So I don't follow your argument. Please explain why if you have the vaccine it suddenly makes you a non killer and someone who chooses not to a killer? "Might be here a while and ignored. | |||
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"People have the freedom. To choose... Hmmm..in 12 months time, when we've all been exercising our freedom... When our infection rates are so high that others won't want to come here or allow us to go there, when the economy is on its knees... When we have turned ourselves into a nation who can't take care of itself... We may look back and wonder if a little sacrifice of wearing a mask, moderating our behaviour a little bit and having a jab were prices worth paying. That isn't a likely scenario. The virus has all but died down in a number of countries and no vaccine has been used yet. This is simply due to respect towards others and adherence to social distancing, masks and washing, so putting in the insistance that not having the jab will be the cause is a little rich. The economy, well every economy is suffering and I can't see why ours will be worse than any others as a result of the pandemic. But I'll stand to be corrected in a year's time. " It seems we mostly agree. I said it with different words, save for the jab. I think those countries who have achieved a level of success have had better adherence and enforcement to behaviour modification measures. We have become largely ungovernable and get what we deserve. Even if many of us are trying our best to minimise infection spread. Our fractured society and so called "freedom" being exercised is just spreading it further and wider. I fear We are nearer the start of this thing than the end. | |||
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"People have the freedom. To choose... Hmmm..in 12 months time, when we've all been exercising our freedom... When our infection rates are so high that others won't want to come here or allow us to go there, when the economy is on its knees... When we have turned ourselves into a nation who can't take care of itself... We may look back and wonder if a little sacrifice of wearing a mask, moderating our behaviour a little bit and having a jab were prices worth paying. That isn't a likely scenario. The virus has all but died down in a number of countries and no vaccine has been used yet. This is simply due to respect towards others and adherence to social distancing, masks and washing, so putting in the insistance that not having the jab will be the cause is a little rich. The economy, well every economy is suffering and I can't see why ours will be worse than any others as a result of the pandemic. But I'll stand to be corrected in a year's time. It seems we mostly agree. I said it with different words, save for the jab. I think those countries who have achieved a level of success have had better adherence and enforcement to behaviour modification measures. We have become largely ungovernable and get what we deserve. Even if many of us are trying our best to minimise infection spread. Our fractured society and so called "freedom" being exercised is just spreading it further and wider. I fear We are nearer the start of this thing than the end. " We generally are indeed. It's the vaccine thing, I've issues with it being forced on to people and especially the pro vaxxers who seem to think it's acceptable to bully anyone who shows some hesitancy in taking it now and lable them all Anti vaxxers which just shows their ignorance on such a simple thing and disrespect towards others with a different view. I'd have the same response to Anti vaxxers who would approach those who want it too, but there's very little of that attitude towards pro vaxxers about taking it, rather more questions that they cannot answer. Primarily their idea that they are safe and cannot spread it. I've asked for their evidence of this in a number of forums but as yet not one has shown me anything other than just saying that it stops you spreading it. No evidence though. | |||
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"Arent they still investigating if you can still spread it after having the jab?" Their still investigating a lot about the virus. They, the CeO of Pfizer, virologists and our own government health have acknowledged that even after you have the vaccine, you will and can still pass on the virus. But many Pro vaxxers including yourself seems to think you're suddenly safer to be near than anyone who hasn't had it. I've just asked where they get this thought from? The vaccine will help your body fight it and therefore reduce the effect it has over your body. It will in term reduce the pressure on the NHS as less people are displaying serious symptoms that require hospital care. It doesn't kill the virus from habitation in your nasal passage and therefore does not stop you from passing it on. However I'll stand corrected if this is demonstrated otherwise. In the mean time people need to change their attack on non vaxxers and those who are choosing not to take this vaccine or choosing to wait. | |||
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"People have the freedom. To choose... Hmmm..in 12 months time, when we've all been exercising our freedom... When our infection rates are so high that others won't want to come here or allow us to go there, when the economy is on its knees... When we have turned ourselves into a nation who can't take care of itself... We may look back and wonder if a little sacrifice of wearing a mask, moderating our behaviour a little bit and having a jab were prices worth paying. That isn't a likely scenario. The virus has all but died down in a number of countries and no vaccine has been used yet. This is simply due to respect towards others and adherence to social distancing, masks and washing, so putting in the insistance that not having the jab will be the cause is a little rich. The economy, well every economy is suffering and I can't see why ours will be worse than any others as a result of the pandemic. But I'll stand to be corrected in a year's time. It seems we mostly agree. I said it with different words, save for the jab. I think those countries who have achieved a level of success have had better adherence and enforcement to behaviour modification measures. We have become largely ungovernable and get what we deserve. Even if many of us are trying our best to minimise infection spread. Our fractured society and so called "freedom" being exercised is just spreading it further and wider. I fear We are nearer the start of this thing than the end. We generally are indeed. It's the vaccine thing, I've issues with it being forced on to people and especially the pro vaxxers who seem to think it's acceptable to bully anyone who shows some hesitancy in taking it now and lable them all Anti vaxxers which just shows their ignorance on such a simple thing and disrespect towards others with a different view. I'd have the same response to Anti vaxxers who would approach those who want it too, but there's very little of that attitude towards pro vaxxers about taking it, rather more questions that they cannot answer. Primarily their idea that they are safe and cannot spread it. I've asked for their evidence of this in a number of forums but as yet not one has shown me anything other than just saying that it stops you spreading it. No evidence though." Exactly, so even though I will get vaccinated, it is still possible for me to be infected. I don't want this! It is also possible, I could infect a vaccine dodger, which I also don't want to do. The evidence is in the trial results. | |||
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"Arent they still investigating if you can still spread it after having the jab? Their still investigating a lot about the virus. They, the CeO of Pfizer, virologists and our own government health have acknowledged that even after you have the vaccine, you will and can still pass on the virus. But many Pro vaxxers including yourself seems to think you're suddenly safer to be near than anyone who hasn't had it. I've just asked where they get this thought from? The vaccine will help your body fight it and therefore reduce the effect it has over your body. It will in term reduce the pressure on the NHS as less people are displaying serious symptoms that require hospital care. It doesn't kill the virus from habitation in your nasal passage and therefore does not stop you from passing it on. However I'll stand corrected if this is demonstrated otherwise. In the mean time people need to change their attack on non vaxxers and those who are choosing not to take this vaccine or choosing to wait. " Erm..where did I say this exactly? | |||
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"Arent they still investigating if you can still spread it after having the jab?" Yes however the developers have said its best for now to assume it only protects the individual until they have enough data to say otherwise. | |||
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"Arent they still investigating if you can still spread it after having the jab? Yes however the developers have said its best for now to assume it only protects the individual until they have enough data to say otherwise. " Yep I read that. | |||
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"I love this thread. People defending their right to kill others because it's their choice. And then complaining because someone else excercised their choice to point out how selfish they are. If your attitude is "I'll do what I want because I only care about myself" then don't burst into tears when someone else hurts your feelings. You do understand that the vaccine does not stop you spreading it and thus killing others as you say. Or maybe you haven't learnt that, not that it's been all over the news lately either. So I don't follow your argument. Please explain why if you have the vaccine it suddenly makes you a non killer and someone who chooses not to a killer?" Your entire argument is based on the vaccine not being able to prevent the spread of the virus. I've read that scientists can't guarantee that it will work in every case but this does not equate to saying it doesn't prevent the spread at all. Of course the antivaxers have jumped on this and turned it into something it is not. The whole point of the vaccine is to achieve herd immunity and if it didn't prevent transmission it wouldn't be worth anything. Ever now and again we get people explaining this. But ten posts later someone goes back to saying the same thing. Please provide me a peer reviewed scientific paper that states that the vaccine has no effect whatsoever on the spread of the virus. | |||
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"Arent they still investigating if you can still spread it after having the jab? Yes however the developers have said its best for now to assume it only protects the individual until they have enough data to say otherwise. " This does not equate to to it not preventing spread. It just means it can't be guaranteed. The vaccine gets the body to trigger an immune response which means antibodies are not immediately in effect. Obviously every person will react differently. So to be on the safe side scientists have asked people not to act like they are bullet proof after the vaccine. Of course the antivaxers have jumped on this and made a meal of it. | |||
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"People have the freedom. To choose... Hmmm..in 12 months time, when we've all been exercising our freedom... When our infection rates are so high that others won't want to come here or allow us to go there, when the economy is on its knees... When we have turned ourselves into a nation who can't take care of itself... We may look back and wonder if a little sacrifice of wearing a mask, moderating our behaviour a little bit and having a jab were prices worth paying. That isn't a likely scenario. The virus has all but died down in a number of countries and no vaccine has been used yet. This is simply due to respect towards others and adherence to social distancing, masks and washing, so putting in the insistance that not having the jab will be the cause is a little rich. The economy, well every economy is suffering and I can't see why ours will be worse than any others as a result of the pandemic. But I'll stand to be corrected in a year's time. It seems we mostly agree. I said it with different words, save for the jab. I think those countries who have achieved a level of success have had better adherence and enforcement to behaviour modification measures. We have become largely ungovernable and get what we deserve. Even if many of us are trying our best to minimise infection spread. Our fractured society and so called "freedom" being exercised is just spreading it further and wider. I fear We are nearer the start of this thing than the end. We generally are indeed. It's the vaccine thing, I've issues with it being forced on to people and especially the pro vaxxers who seem to think it's acceptable to bully anyone who shows some hesitancy in taking it now and lable them all Anti vaxxers which just shows their ignorance on such a simple thing and disrespect towards others with a different view. I'd have the same response to Anti vaxxers who would approach those who want it too, but there's very little of that attitude towards pro vaxxers about taking it, rather more questions that they cannot answer. Primarily their idea that they are safe and cannot spread it. I've asked for their evidence of this in a number of forums but as yet not one has shown me anything other than just saying that it stops you spreading it. No evidence though." It's just another tool in the toolkit to reduce infections and the effects of infections. No more no less. Given our behaviours for the last 9 months there is cast iron evidence that we need as many tools as we can get because there's a sizable minority out there who are wilfully ignoring advice to stop spreading it and making choices to do so. We have the power to spread it. We have the power to not spread it. People are making their choices and the results are self evident. It's no surprise that there are tensions between those who are prepared to do what they can for their communities and those who aren't. Id be interested if there is any correlation between those against this covid vaccine, or any other covid vaccine and those who choose not to socially distance as an example. Equally I don't think at the moment there's any need to be bullying people one way or the other. For now theres 70m people and 400k vaccines (assuming 100% delivery).. So plenty who do want it. As for the vaccine, its going to be a long time before it gets through the population and hopefully some people who are against it can be persuaded as it will help manage this awful situation.stronger together. | |||
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"People have the freedom. To choose... Hmmm..in 12 months time, when we've all been exercising our freedom... When our infection rates are so high that others won't want to come here or allow us to go there, when the economy is on its knees... When we have turned ourselves into a nation who can't take care of itself... We may look back and wonder if a little sacrifice of wearing a mask, moderating our behaviour a little bit and having a jab were prices worth paying. That isn't a likely scenario. The virus has all but died down in a number of countries and no vaccine has been used yet. This is simply due to respect towards others and adherence to social distancing, masks and washing, so putting in the insistance that not having the jab will be the cause is a little rich. The economy, well every economy is suffering and I can't see why ours will be worse than any others as a result of the pandemic. But I'll stand to be corrected in a year's time. It seems we mostly agree. I said it with different words, save for the jab. I think those countries who have achieved a level of success have had better adherence and enforcement to behaviour modification measures. We have become largely ungovernable and get what we deserve. Even if many of us are trying our best to minimise infection spread. Our fractured society and so called "freedom" being exercised is just spreading it further and wider. I fear We are nearer the start of this thing than the end. We generally are indeed. It's the vaccine thing, I've issues with it being forced on to people and especially the pro vaxxers who seem to think it's acceptable to bully anyone who shows some hesitancy in taking it now and lable them all Anti vaxxers which just shows their ignorance on such a simple thing and disrespect towards others with a different view. I'd have the same response to Anti vaxxers who would approach those who want it too, but there's very little of that attitude towards pro vaxxers about taking it, rather more questions that they cannot answer. Primarily their idea that they are safe and cannot spread it. I've asked for their evidence of this in a number of forums but as yet not one has shown me anything other than just saying that it stops you spreading it. No evidence though. It's just another tool in the toolkit to reduce infections and the effects of infections. No more no less. Given our behaviours for the last 9 months there is cast iron evidence that we need as many tools as we can get because there's a sizable minority out there who are wilfully ignoring advice to stop spreading it and making choices to do so. We have the power to spread it. We have the power to not spread it. People are making their choices and the results are self evident. It's no surprise that there are tensions between those who are prepared to do what they can for their communities and those who aren't. Id be interested if there is any correlation between those against this covid vaccine, or any other covid vaccine and those who choose not to socially distance as an example. Equally I don't think at the moment there's any need to be bullying people one way or the other. For now theres 70m people and 400k vaccines (assuming 100% delivery).. So plenty who do want it. As for the vaccine, its going to be a long time before it gets through the population and hopefully some people who are against it can be persuaded as it will help manage this awful situation.stronger together. " Absolutely | |||
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"Yes I've said this if I get it then leave me to take my chances x What about the people you would be in contact with? You'd be taking chances on behalf of them, too. Yup x How would you feel if someone you loved dearly died because they were infected by someone who refused to take the jab?" Probably much the same way as you would, but less surprised as you have been misled or misinformed in your thinking that you're safer. You're just a likely to pass it on as the one unvaccinated. It don't kill the virus. It protects you from having a severe response and then directly save NHS bed spaces for other patients on long waiting lists. How do you now feel knowing that you can continue to spread it and cause deaths? | |||
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"Yes I've said this if I get it then leave me to take my chances x What about the people you would be in contact with? You'd be taking chances on behalf of them, too. Yup x How would you feel if someone you loved dearly died because they were infected by someone who refused to take the jab? Probably much the same way as you would, but less surprised as you have been misled or misinformed in your thinking that you're safer. You're just a likely to pass it on as the one unvaccinated. It don't kill the virus. It protects you from having a severe response and then directly save NHS bed spaces for other patients on long waiting lists. How do you now feel knowing that you can continue to spread it and cause deaths?" You dont know that as has previously been stated. | |||
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"Yes I've said this if I get it then leave me to take my chances x What about the people you would be in contact with? You'd be taking chances on behalf of them, too. Yup x How would you feel if someone you loved dearly died because they were infected by someone who refused to take the jab? Probably much the same way as you would, but less surprised as you have been misled or misinformed in your thinking that you're safer. You're just a likely to pass it on as the one unvaccinated. It don't kill the virus. It protects you from having a severe response and then directly save NHS bed spaces for other patients on long waiting lists. How do you now feel knowing that you can continue to spread it and cause deaths?" And we're down to the same old crap accusing people of being misled or mis informed. But of course, you know the truth. | |||
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"And calling people who have a choice selfish! " Not my words. | |||
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