FabSwingers.com > Forums > Virus > Why weren't we more prepared for this?
Why weren't we more prepared for this?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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https://youtu.be/uSDC5L7qYUc
2015
Bush speaking about preparing for a future pandemic
Its always been a case of when and not if it happens,so why weren't we we more prepared? Stock piles of PPE,I V bags,beds ect
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Because as societies we're bad at preparing for things which 'might' happen but aren't in our direct line of vision - our respose to the climate crisis is a key example. People are still living in San Francisco even though the San Andreas fault is long overdue a major earthquake etc.
More prosaically, we've had ten years of all public spending being cut to the bone by the government - this isn't a political point, just a fact. Local authorities have had to cut back on everything from bin collections to care for vulnerable adults etc. There just wasn't the spare capacity in the system for planning for something which 'might' happen.
And the penalties for getting it wrong are huge politicians - when the SARS crisis started, a French health minister spent vast amounts ramping up an emergency effort, investing in PPE, setting crisis response planning in place... none of which was then needed. She became a byword for wasteful spending, was trashed in the press, dragged through public inquiries and had her career pretty much destroyed. What she did now looks far more sensible - but no politician wants to take that risk.
So, short answer: mixture of human fallibility and bad political systems... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"https://youtu.be/uSDC5L7qYUc
2015
Bush speaking about preparing for a future pandemic
Its always been a case of when and not if it happens,so why weren't we we more prepared? Stock piles of PPE,I V bags,beds ect
"
A bit difficult to prepare when you’re ideologically wedded to austerity. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Because as societies we're bad at preparing for things which 'might' happen but aren't in our direct line of vision - our respose to the climate crisis is a key example. People are still living in San Francisco even though the San Andreas fault is long overdue a major earthquake etc.
More prosaically, we've had ten years of all public spending being cut to the bone by the government - this isn't a political point, just a fact. Local authorities have had to cut back on everything from bin collections to care for vulnerable adults etc. There just wasn't the spare capacity in the system for planning for something which 'might' happen.
And the penalties for getting it wrong are huge politicians - when the SARS crisis started, a French health minister spent vast amounts ramping up an emergency effort, investing in PPE, setting crisis response planning in place... none of which was then needed. She became a byword for wasteful spending, was trashed in the press, dragged through public inquiries and had her career pretty much destroyed. What she did now looks far more sensible - but no politician wants to take that risk.
So, short answer: mixture of human fallibility and bad political systems..."
Good answer, did you know a professor of infectious diseases warned about hurricanes in 2015,yes hurricanes,this is because puerto Rico produces 85% of IV bags used world wide, if it was destroyed by a hurricane there would be a massive shortage of these bags, its exactly what happened in 2017,hurricane maria devastated most islands around that area, we were warned |
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That's really interesting. Also, all these kind of viruses are zoonotic. It looks like we're getting on top of this one, but unless we radically change the way we live - encroach less in natural environments, less aggressive farming, less exploitation of natural resources etc- the next one will emerge in exactly the same way. And the one after that, and the one after that... Globally, the way we live right now is like pissing in our own water supply, and wondering why we keep getting ill. Hopefully this last year - and the immense costs its levied on us - will be enough of a wake-up call that we can't just keep winging this stuff. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/28/exercise-cygnus-uncovered-pandemic-warnings-buried-government/amp/
Government had over 3 years warning that we weren’t prepared..."
Correct, I made a comment about this about 4 months ago,we probably won't be prepared for the next one |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"simple answer, money, we cant be ready for everything all of the time, just not practical"
I take it this is the lesser of of the two then? Practical? Just how much debt are we in sir? |
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"https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-outbreak-uk-austerity-politics-tory-government-a9466931.html
Looks like cost cutting played a big part..."
Cut services to the bone and then act shocked when you see totally unprepared to deal with such a situation. |
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"The western world was warned as far back as 2008 what a, future pandemic would do. So they just sat on their arses doing diddly squat about it "
Aye
There is no magic money tree
Once they have doled out millions to their mates,there sinlly isn't enough to go round.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-outbreak-uk-austerity-politics-tory-government-a9466931.html
Looks like cost cutting played a big part...
Cut services to the bone and then act shocked when you see totally unprepared to deal with such a situation. "
Yep, but they must have known the economic outcome of a pandemic if they are doing an exercise for one in 2016 |
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"https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-outbreak-uk-austerity-politics-tory-government-a9466931.html
Looks like cost cutting played a big part...
Cut services to the bone and then act shocked when you see totally unprepared to deal with such a situation.
Yep, but they must have known the economic outcome of a pandemic if they are doing an exercise for one in 2016"
Course they did..They didnt care.
If you cut and cut services,somewhere along the line it's going to bite you om the arse.
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"https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-outbreak-uk-austerity-politics-tory-government-a9466931.html
Looks like cost cutting played a big part...
Cut services to the bone and then act shocked when you see totally unprepared to deal with such a situation.
Yep, but they must have known the economic outcome of a pandemic if they are doing an exercise for one in 2016"
But that involved changing ones ideological path to the land of mightily prospering ..
And it needed them to listen to experts.. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-outbreak-uk-austerity-politics-tory-government-a9466931.html
Looks like cost cutting played a big part...
Cut services to the bone and then act shocked when you see totally unprepared to deal with such a situation.
Yep, but they must have known the economic outcome of a pandemic if they are doing an exercise for one in 2016
Course they did..They didnt care.
If you cut and cut services,somewhere along the line it's going to bite you om the arse.
"
That's the tories for you |
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We also got very, very unlucky even by the standards of most pandemics: things like ebola are far more deadly, but the speed with which they kill people limits their spread. Something like measles isn't usually lethal, but spreads incredibly fast. COVID kind of hit the sweet spot through the middle where it's very contagious, but just non-lethal enough that it doesn't burn itself out. Worst case scenario, basically.
We're also in a political moment where all the attention and energy has been consumed by one subject (Brexit). There's a whole host of things from reforming social care to planning for disasters from pandemics to floods which has simply been put on hold while money, resources and the civil service have been redirected to coming out of Europe. It's been an enormous resources drain. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"But wouldn't all the moaners and wingebags be complaining that the government had spent millions on PPE etc... For a pandemic that may never happen??"
Can't please everyone I suppose |
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By *akie32Man
over a year ago
winchester |
"But wouldn't all the moaners and wingebags be complaining that the government had spent millions on PPE etc... For a pandemic that may never happen??"
this, like i said you cant please everyone |
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So for the wise ones on here who believe throwing money at "it" would have solved the problem. Exactly how would having, for example, more hospital beds, have helped today's situation, where we are spreading the infections through lack of adherence to simple social distancing.? More money doesn't solve the publics behaviours. We would still have people throwing parties for 200 people, still be crammed on top of eachother at the shops, still have no access to NHS services. We as a nation have next to no appetite for planning for the future, for collective behaviour for our good. So heres a questions, how many would pay an extra 5p on the pound of tax to put into the "rainy day" next pandemic fund? How many would change their desire for "cheap stuff" that gets manufactured as cheaply as possible and shipped half way around the world? How many would say I'm not going to use air travel unless in emergency and holiday in UK? How many would recognjse that our own health and well being is our own responsibility and nobody else's so will eat more healthily, exercise a little more, walk to work and so on. It's easy pointing fingers at other people. Much harder to change our own behaviour. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"So for the wise ones on here who believe throwing money at "it" would have solved the problem. Exactly how would having, for example, more hospital beds, have helped today's situation, where we are spreading the infections through lack of adherence to simple social distancing.? More money doesn't solve the publics behaviours. We would still have people throwing parties for 200 people, still be crammed on top of eachother at the shops, still have no access to NHS services. We as a nation have next to no appetite for planning for the future, for collective behaviour for our good. So heres a questions, how many would pay an extra 5p on the pound of tax to put into the "rainy day" next pandemic fund? How many would change their desire for "cheap stuff" that gets manufactured as cheaply as possible and shipped half way around the world? How many would say I'm not going to use air travel unless in emergency and holiday in UK? How many would recognjse that our own health and well being is our own responsibility and nobody else's so will eat more healthily, exercise a little more, walk to work and so on. It's easy pointing fingers at other people. Much harder to change our own behaviour."
Think you completely missed my point, your looking at things in hindsight, I'm looking at things from a 'we should prepare for a flu epidemic' |
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"So for the wise ones on here who believe throwing money at "it" would have solved the problem. Exactly how would having, for example, more hospital beds, have helped today's situation, where we are spreading the infections through lack of adherence to simple social distancing.? More money doesn't solve the publics behaviours. We would still have people throwing parties for 200 people, still be crammed on top of eachother at the shops, still have no access to NHS services. We as a nation have next to no appetite for planning for the future, for collective behaviour for our good. So heres a questions, how many would pay an extra 5p on the pound of tax to put into the "rainy day" next pandemic fund? How many would change their desire for "cheap stuff" that gets manufactured as cheaply as possible and shipped half way around the world? How many would say I'm not going to use air travel unless in emergency and holiday in UK? How many would recognjse that our own health and well being is our own responsibility and nobody else's so will eat more healthily, exercise a little more, walk to work and so on. It's easy pointing fingers at other people. Much harder to change our own behaviour."
All good points. One line I read on this which I think is true - as a country, we often expect Scandinavian levels of services, at American levels of taxation. And eventually, something's got to give.
Disaster management is also much more effective in 'high trust' society's - eg the way that Taiwan dealt with it - where people broadly believe official information, trust their government to be working in the common good, and have a solid history of being talked to honestly by their leaders. That's obviously not massively been the case here in the last few years and we've paid the price for it to some extent (but agree that there's also a huge need for more personal responsibility in our own behaviours)
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It is a matter of probability. How much time and effort do you want to devote to an extreme event that is unlikely in the short term but almost inevitable at some point? And how do you know how extreme it is going to be in advance?
For example, they were prepared for the water rising at the Fukushima nuclear power plant. But just not to the extreme level of a tsunami.
Infectious diseases have always been with us. However, modern humans have made their consequences much worse. We often live in dense population and we are mixing more with each other through global travel. Someday there WILL be a pandemic with an agent that either spreads more widely or has a higher mortality rate than Covid. |
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We have voted in people in England who were intent on reducing public services as much as possible and were derelict in their duty of service of the wellbeing of the people. There were epidemic readiness tests shortly before this but the PM didn't even read the concluding report by end of summer. The failings were not addressed by those leaders at the time, which could have allowed us to have coped better. We are to blame if we vote people in who are repeatedly going to fall to provide absolute minimum standards of public service that are close to needs. We have much too much of a short term outlook here, rather than using our wisdom and expertise to guide us rationally to do the right things. We prefer to be led like dogs emotionally, chasing sticks that may get thrown to us. |
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"We also got very, very unlucky even by the standards of most pandemics: things like ebola are far more deadly, but the speed with which they kill people limits their spread. Something like measles isn't usually lethal, but spreads incredibly fast. COVID kind of hit the sweet spot through the middle where it's very contagious, but just non-lethal enough that it doesn't burn itself out. Worst case scenario, basically.
We're also in a political moment where all the attention and energy has been consumed by one subject (Brexit). There's a whole host of things from reforming social care to planning for disasters from pandemics to floods which has simply been put on hold while money, resources and the civil service have been redirected to coming out of Europe. It's been an enormous resources drain."
Services were cut due to austerity
Nothing to do with Brexit
It was a political choice
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"We have voted in people in England who were intent on reducing public services as much as possible and were derelict in their duty of service of the wellbeing of the people. There were epidemic readiness tests shortly before this but the PM didn't even read the concluding report by end of summer. The failings were not addressed by those leaders at the time, which could have allowed us to have coped better. We are to blame if we vote people in who are repeatedly going to fall to provide absolute minimum standards of public service that are close to needs. We have much too much of a short term outlook here, rather than using our wisdom and expertise to guide us rationally to do the right things. We prefer to be led like dogs emotionally, chasing sticks that may get thrown to us. "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The People didn't so much 'vote the conservatives in' as much as they 'voted labour out'. When the People voted again it was to KEEP labour out.
 "
****************************
Well said.
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"The People didn't so much 'vote the conservatives in' as much as they 'voted labour out'. When the People voted again it was to KEEP labour out.
"
With tragic consequences. I'm not championing any one party but if we are to ever learn from our history and experiences, it may as well be now, following this bleak year. This isn't the Politics forum area, it's the Virus.
I don't care what persuasion a leader has but if the expensive epidemic readiness testing a couple of years before this pandemic, has produced conclusions that any leader has ignored, it signals that the people have instilled a foul crock into the position, that is below the minimum standards of the lowest of public servants. It's abhorrent.
The OP is upon why we fared so badly. We had a chance, after running pandemic readiness testing, to learn and to take quick action, that would have meant we had greater resources and we were more ready. It's better not to be a headless chicken.
If we'd been prepared, we would have not failed repeatedly to take action. When we saw Italy struggling, we would have been more confident in knowing what to do and by when. The tragic affair of us bidding against the USA for dwindling PPE and other supplies could have been avoided. We had hindsight after the pandemic readiness testing. We didn't have to wait to get the real thing, in order to gain that hindsight.
Blinkered animals are blinded to what's outside of their field of vision. Wilfully putting blinkers and blindfolds on, when we know we are hobbled is just stupid.
That key pattern this year, repeatedly doing every single thing too late, has cost us very dearly. The delay in the first lockdown meant at least 20,000 unnecessary lives were lost. That and the other delays have also more savagely hurt the economy and peoples' livelihoods and jobs.
We're in the top 10 globally for deaths relative to population size. Germany, which started infection levels similarly by time and volume, is nearer to no 50. We had choices and opportunities. |
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"But wouldn't all the moaners and wingebags be complaining that the government had spent millions on PPE etc... For a pandemic that may never happen??"
They don't seem to mind spending billions on nuclear weapons that can't ever be used without the US giving permission.
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"https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-outbreak-uk-austerity-politics-tory-government-a9466931.html
Looks like cost cutting played a big part...
Cut services to the bone and then act shocked when you see totally unprepared to deal with such a situation.
Yep, but they must have known the economic outcome of a pandemic if they are doing an exercise for one in 2016
Course they did..They didnt care.
If you cut and cut services,somewhere along the line it's going to bite you om the arse.
That's the tories for you"
This... everyone that voted for them needs to rethink next time. |
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"The People didn't so much 'vote the conservatives in' as much as they 'voted labour out'. When the People voted again it was to KEEP labour out.
"
Absolute rubbish .... Tory’s thrive on dividing people. Nothing about left wing policies make you worse off unless you’re super rich. Self centred- ness is what keeps people voting Tory. |
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"We have voted in people in England who were intent on reducing public services as much as possible and were derelict in their duty of service of the wellbeing of the people. There were epidemic readiness tests shortly before this but the PM didn't even read the concluding report by end of summer. The failings were not addressed by those leaders at the time, which could have allowed us to have coped better. We are to blame if we vote people in who are repeatedly going to fall to provide absolute minimum standards of public service that are close to needs. We have much too much of a short term outlook here, rather than using our wisdom and expertise to guide us rationally to do the right things. We prefer to be led like dogs emotionally, chasing sticks that may get thrown to us. "
This...... |
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"
We're in the top 10 globally for deaths relative to population size. "
Top ten? Far too modest!! We're number five! The glorious, fabulous UK, with its wonderful world-beating Prime Minister who next year is going to lead us into the most wondrous prosperity because he said so, Has the fifth highest umber of deaths due to Corona virus in the entire world!! Admittedly, Bosnia eded us down to 7th place in the deaths per million stakes, but it certainly proves to all those moaning Minnies who said we'd never be good at anything again that when it comes to cutting public services and starting a pandemic with appallingly low standards of public health we can still give places like Peru pretty stiff competition!
Proud to be British? If only I had a Union flag I could wrap myself in it!! I feel all warm inside now! |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"But wouldn't all the moaners and wingebags be complaining that the government had spent millions on PPE etc... For a pandemic that may never happen??"
either that or why is the mountains of ppe all no good because its been stored to long? must have been a tory with a mate who makes it all bloody useless cause we have had it too long. Sound familiar to you anti gov people?  |
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"The People didn't so much 'vote the conservatives in' as much as they 'voted labour out'. When the People voted again it was to KEEP labour out.
With tragic consequences. I'm not championing any one party but if we are to ever learn from our history and experiences, it may as well be now, following this bleak year. This isn't the Politics forum area, it's the Virus.
I don't care what persuasion a leader has but if the expensive epidemic readiness testing a couple of years before this pandemic, has produced conclusions that any leader has ignored, it signals that the people have instilled a foul crock into the position, that is below the minimum standards of the lowest of public servants. It's abhorrent.
The OP is upon why we fared so badly. We had a chance, after running pandemic readiness testing, to learn and to take quick action, that would have meant we had greater resources and we were more ready. It's better not to be a headless chicken.
If we'd been prepared, we would have not failed repeatedly to take action. When we saw Italy struggling, we would have been more confident in knowing what to do and by when. The tragic affair of us bidding against the USA for dwindling PPE and other supplies could have been avoided. We had hindsight after the pandemic readiness testing. We didn't have to wait to get the real thing, in order to gain that hindsight.
Blinkered animals are blinded to what's outside of their field of vision. Wilfully putting blinkers and blindfolds on, when we know we are hobbled is just stupid.
That key pattern this year, repeatedly doing every single thing too late, has cost us very dearly. The delay in the first lockdown meant at least 20,000 unnecessary lives were lost. That and the other delays have also more savagely hurt the economy and peoples' livelihoods and jobs.
We're in the top 10 globally for deaths relative to population size. Germany, which started infection levels similarly by time and volume, is nearer to no 50. We had choices and opportunities. "
A lot of good points.... BUT we still have the power to spread it or not to spread it. Population are making their choices and they are in many cases, choices that are increasing the rate of infection, the hospitalisation and subsequent deaths. Not to mention long covid consequences. Whatever decisions others have taken. We ultimately choose to spread it or not spread it. It's on us. |
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"The People didn't so much 'vote the conservatives in' as much as they 'voted labour out'. When the People voted again it was to KEEP labour out.
Absolute rubbish .... Tory’s thrive on dividing people. Nothing about left wing policies make you worse off unless you’re super rich. Self centred- ness is what keeps people voting Tory. "
Err... Things were pretty shitty under Wilson and callaghan. Mountains of rubbish in the streets, blackouts, 3 day working week.... Not defending the current lot. But not agreeing that "nothing is worse with left wing policies"...
I think we need a unity party to give us back a national identity, unite the mority around a common purpose and willing to govern without being held hostage to minorities. |
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Nice to see people have their priorities right.
It's wrong to spend money on ppe for front line staff in case it doesnt get used.
But it's absolutely fine to let millions of pounds to go friends of the gmnt. |
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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago
Wakefield |
"https://youtu.be/uSDC5L7qYUc
2015
Bush speaking about preparing for a future pandemic
Its always been a case of when and not if it happens,so why weren't we we more prepared? Stock piles of PPE,I V bags,beds ect
"
Covid-19 is not the same as flu which is what Bush was on about.
The PPE required for Covid-19 is higher spec than that used for flu.
The main problem was not that the NHS was not prepared or able to cope, it was and it did. The main problem is the population of the UK will not follow government guidance, that is the simple uncomfortable truth of the matter. |
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"https://youtu.be/uSDC5L7qYUc
2015
Bush speaking about preparing for a future pandemic
Its always been a case of when and not if it happens,so why weren't we we more prepared? Stock piles of PPE,I V bags,beds ect
Covid-19 is not the same as flu which is what Bush was on about.
The PPE required for Covid-19 is higher spec than that used for flu.
The main problem was not that the NHS was not prepared or able to cope, it was and it did. The main problem is the population of the UK will not follow government guidance, that is the simple uncomfortable truth of the matter."
Well said. Doesn't matter who's in charge. If it is dependent on the great British public doing what is right. Its not going to work. |
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"https://youtu.be/uSDC5L7qYUc
2015
Bush speaking about preparing for a future pandemic
Its always been a case of when and not if it happens,so why weren't we we more prepared? Stock piles of PPE,I V bags,beds ect
Covid-19 is not the same as flu which is what Bush was on about.
The PPE required for Covid-19 is higher spec than that used for flu.
The main problem was not that the NHS was not prepared or able to cope, it was and it did. The main problem is the population of the UK will not follow government guidance, that is the simple uncomfortable truth of the matter.
Well said. Doesn't matter who's in charge. If it is dependent on the great British public doing what is right. Its not going to work. "
Did the great british decide to put covid patients into care homes? |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"https://youtu.be/uSDC5L7qYUc
2015
Bush speaking about preparing for a future pandemic
Its always been a case of when and not if it happens,so why weren't we we more prepared? Stock piles of PPE,I V bags,beds ect
Covid-19 is not the same as flu which is what Bush was on about.
The PPE required for Covid-19 is higher spec than that used for flu.
The main problem was not that the NHS was not prepared or able to cope, it was and it did. The main problem is the population of the UK will not follow government guidance, that is the simple uncomfortable truth of the matter.
Well said. Doesn't matter who's in charge. If it is dependent on the great British public doing what is right. Its not going to work. "
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"We have voted in people in England who were intent on reducing public services as much as possible and were derelict in their duty of service of the wellbeing of the people. There were epidemic readiness tests shortly before this but the PM didn't even read the concluding report by end of summer. The failings were not addressed by those leaders at the time, which could have allowed us to have coped better. We are to blame if we vote people in who are repeatedly going to fall to provide absolute minimum standards of public service that are close to needs. We have much too much of a short term outlook here, rather than using our wisdom and expertise to guide us rationally to do the right things. We prefer to be led like dogs emotionally, chasing sticks that may get thrown to us. "
Rubbish
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"https://youtu.be/uSDC5L7qYUc
2015
Bush speaking about preparing for a future pandemic
Its always been a case of when and not if it happens,so why weren't we we more prepared? Stock piles of PPE,I V bags,beds ect
Covid-19 is not the same as flu which is what Bush was on about.
The PPE required for Covid-19 is higher spec than that used for flu.
The main problem was not that the NHS was not prepared or able to cope, it was and it did. The main problem is the population of the UK will not follow government guidance, that is the simple uncomfortable truth of the matter.
Well said. Doesn't matter who's in charge. If it is dependent on the great British public doing what is right. Its not going to work.
Did the great british decide to put covid patients into care homes?"
That would be our great British tory party |
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"https://youtu.be/uSDC5L7qYUc
2015
Bush speaking about preparing for a future pandemic
Its always been a case of when and not if it happens,so why weren't we we more prepared? Stock piles of PPE,I V bags,beds ect
Covid-19 is not the same as flu which is what Bush was on about.
The PPE required for Covid-19 is higher spec than that used for flu.
The main problem was not that the NHS was not prepared or able to cope, it was and it did. The main problem is the population of the UK will not follow government guidance, that is the simple uncomfortable truth of the matter.
Well said. Doesn't matter who's in charge. If it is dependent on the great British public doing what is right. Its not going to work.
Did the great british decide to put covid patients into care homes?
That would be our great British tory party"
That'll be the care home managers who have responsibility for the residents in the care home and the policy's and safety of all residents. |
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"https://youtu.be/uSDC5L7qYUc
2015
Bush speaking about preparing for a future pandemic
Its always been a case of when and not if it happens,so why weren't we we more prepared? Stock piles of PPE,I V bags,beds ect
Covid-19 is not the same as flu which is what Bush was on about.
The PPE required for Covid-19 is higher spec than that used for flu.
The main problem was not that the NHS was not prepared or able to cope, it was and it did. The main problem is the population of the UK will not follow government guidance, that is the simple uncomfortable truth of the matter.
Well said. Doesn't matter who's in charge. If it is dependent on the great British public doing what is right. Its not going to work.
Did the great british decide to put covid patients into care homes?
That would be our great British tory party
That'll be the care home managers who have responsibility for the residents in the care home and the policy's and safety of all residents. "
So nothing do with the gmnt? |
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When the pandemic began Hancock was assuring parliament that we were fully prepared whilst boris was talking about taking it on the chin and shaking hands with covid patients (it's a well known fact you can combat a deadly pandemic with a dose of dunkirk spirt)
But there is absolutely no suggestion that it wasmt taken serously. |
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"https://youtu.be/uSDC5L7qYUc
2015
Bush speaking about preparing for a future pandemic
Its always been a case of when and not if it happens,so why weren't we we more prepared? Stock piles of PPE,I V bags,beds ect
Covid-19 is not the same as flu which is what Bush was on about.
The PPE required for Covid-19 is higher spec than that used for flu.
The main problem was not that the NHS was not prepared or able to cope, it was and it did. The main problem is the population of the UK will not follow government guidance, that is the simple uncomfortable truth of the matter.
Well said. Doesn't matter who's in charge. If it is dependent on the great British public doing what is right. Its not going to work.
Did the great british decide to put covid patients into care homes?
That would be our great British tory party
That'll be the care home managers who have responsibility for the residents in the care home and the policy's and safety of all residents.
So nothing do with the gmnt?"
I didn't say that Lionel. There have been some terrible decisions from government. They've done a few half decent things but have been drowned in a sea of incompetence. However. Not all things are somebody else's fault. Sometimes we have to admit that we have a part to play in either continuing to spread the infection or making choices to reduce the risk of spreading the infection. |
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"https://youtu.be/uSDC5L7qYUc
2015
Bush speaking about preparing for a future pandemic
Its always been a case of when and not if it happens,so why weren't we we more prepared? Stock piles of PPE,I V bags,beds ect
Covid-19 is not the same as flu which is what Bush was on about.
The PPE required for Covid-19 is higher spec than that used for flu.
The main problem was not that the NHS was not prepared or able to cope, it was and it did. The main problem is the population of the UK will not follow government guidance, that is the simple uncomfortable truth of the matter.
Well said. Doesn't matter who's in charge. If it is dependent on the great British public doing what is right. Its not going to work.
Did the great british decide to put covid patients into care homes?
That would be our great British tory party
That'll be the care home managers who have responsibility for the residents in the care home and the policy's and safety of all residents.
So nothing do with the gmnt?
I didn't say that Lionel. There have been some terrible decisions from government. They've done a few half decent things but have been drowned in a sea of incompetence. However. Not all things are somebody else's fault. Sometimes we have to admit that we have a part to play in either continuing to spread the infection or making choices to reduce the risk of spreading the infection. "
I agree.
We all take some responsibility.
However when this is all over there should be some serious questions asked about how its been handled and especially the contracts scandal. |
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When i worked for nhs we had training sessions about pandemics and what masks and other medical equipment may be needed , i always made sure we had ppe tucked away in a safe place ready , i dont think the nhs was ready for such a large pandemic with large casualties and deaths,... |
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"https://youtu.be/uSDC5L7qYUc
2015
Bush speaking about preparing for a future pandemic
Its always been a case of when and not if it happens,so why weren't we we more prepared? Stock piles of PPE,I V bags,beds ect
Covid-19 is not the same as flu which is what Bush was on about.
The PPE required for Covid-19 is higher spec than that used for flu.
The main problem was not that the NHS was not prepared or able to cope, it was and it did. The main problem is the population of the UK will not follow government guidance, that is the simple uncomfortable truth of the matter.
Well said. Doesn't matter who's in charge. If it is dependent on the great British public doing what is right. Its not going to work. "
The public are more likely to respect the advice of a good leader.
In your working life, has your behaviour and attitude towards you work not been dependent on the leadership skills of your boss because you have respected them more? |
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|
By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke. |
"The People didn't so much 'vote the conservatives in' as much as they 'voted labour out'. When the People voted again it was to KEEP labour out.
And hows that going exactly?"
And absolutely nothing to do with my answer.  |
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|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"The People didn't so much 'vote the conservatives in' as much as they 'voted labour out'. When the People voted again it was to KEEP labour out.
And hows that going exactly?
And absolutely nothing to do with my answer. "
I'll answer for you, it's going absolutely terrible |
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|
By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke. |
"The People didn't so much 'vote the conservatives in' as much as they 'voted labour out'. When the People voted again it was to KEEP labour out.
And hows that going exactly?
And absolutely nothing to do with my answer.
I'll answer for you, it's going absolutely terrible "
All over the World. |
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|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"https://youtu.be/uSDC5L7qYUc
2015
Bush speaking about preparing for a future pandemic
Its always been a case of when and not if it happens,so why weren't we we more prepared? Stock piles of PPE,I V bags,beds ect
Covid-19 is not the same as flu which is what Bush was on about.
The PPE required for Covid-19 is higher spec than that used for flu.
The main problem was not that the NHS was not prepared or able to cope, it was and it did. The main problem is the population of the UK will not follow government guidance, that is the simple uncomfortable truth of the matter.
Well said. Doesn't matter who's in charge. If it is dependent on the great British public doing what is right. Its not going to work.
Did the great british decide to put covid patients into care homes?
That would be our great British tory party
That'll be the care home managers who have responsibility for the residents in the care home and the policy's and safety of all residents.
So nothing do with the gmnt?
I didn't say that Lionel. There have been some terrible decisions from government. They've done a few half decent things but have been drowned in a sea of incompetence. However. Not all things are somebody else's fault. Sometimes we have to admit that we have a part to play in either continuing to spread the infection or making choices to reduce the risk of spreading the infection.
I agree.
We all take some responsibility.
However when this is all over there should be some serious questions asked about how its been handled and especially the contracts scandal."
You mean questions like "why have a lot of tory MPs profited as a direct result of this pandemic" |
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|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"The People didn't so much 'vote the conservatives in' as much as they 'voted labour out'. When the People voted again it was to KEEP labour out.
And hows that going exactly?
And absolutely nothing to do with my answer.
I'll answer for you, it's going absolutely terrible
All over the World."
I don't live all over the world,I live in the UK where elected officials have profited as a result of this virus |
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|
By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke. |
"The People didn't so much 'vote the conservatives in' as much as they 'voted labour out'. When the People voted again it was to KEEP labour out.
And hows that going exactly?
And absolutely nothing to do with my answer.
I'll answer for you, it's going absolutely terrible
All over the World.
I don't live all over the world,I live in the UK where elected officials have profited as a result of this virus"
And STILL nothing to do with my answer. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"That's really interesting. Also, all these kind of viruses are zoonotic. It looks like we're getting on top of this one, but unless we radically change the way we live - encroach less in natural environments, less aggressive farming, less exploitation of natural resources etc- the next one will emerge in exactly the same way. And the one after that, and the one after that... Globally, the way we live right now is like pissing in our own water supply, and wondering why we keep getting ill. Hopefully this last year - and the immense costs its levied on us - will be enough of a wake-up call that we can't just keep winging this stuff. "
you would hope but i reckon we will see history repeat itself at least another once before we learn ... hopefully not in our lifetimes though
oh and thanks for a well thought out balanced first response as opposed to the lazy “tory austerity” ive come to expect from the forums |
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|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"The People didn't so much 'vote the conservatives in' as much as they 'voted labour out'. When the People voted again it was to KEEP labour out.
And hows that going exactly?
And absolutely nothing to do with my answer.
I'll answer for you, it's going absolutely terrible
All over the World.
I don't live all over the world,I live in the UK where elected officials have profited as a result of this virus
And STILL nothing to do with my answer."
This is the forums, it happens, get used to it |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"https://youtu.be/uSDC5L7qYUc
2015
Bush speaking about preparing for a future pandemic
Its always been a case of when and not if it happens,so why weren't we we more prepared? Stock piles of PPE,I V bags,beds ect
Covid-19 is not the same as flu which is what Bush was on about.
The PPE required for Covid-19 is higher spec than that used for flu.
The main problem was not that the NHS was not prepared or able to cope, it was and it did. The main problem is the population of the UK will not follow government guidance, that is the simple uncomfortable truth of the matter.
Well said. Doesn't matter who's in charge. If it is dependent on the great British public doing what is right. Its not going to work.
The public are more likely to respect the advice of a good leader.
In your working life, has your behaviour and attitude towards you work not been dependent on the leadership skills of your boss because you have respected them more?"
yes and no ... a crap leader at work has led to times when i have been outright miserable ... but did i let it impact my sense of responsibility or stop me from getting through what needed done? nope cause thats always been on me
nobody can deny boris is a shit show ... but is pointing a finger at boris going to help you in any way when you spread covid to your nan and she dies? of course not
like back for more has said over and over and over ... we can only blame ourselves for our own actions ... crap leadership or not they aren’t holding a gun to your head to mix with people its all selfish self interest keeping us doing that (i include myself i've not been perfect)
part of the problem (although a nice problem to have for those people) is that when you don’t see it directly in your life , you can easily play down the virus and its consequences... it feel less real ... it will never happen to me or mine mentality (bit like the govt attitude to pandemic planning that people are criticising) ... until it is in your life and its too late ... much like these anti mask tik tokkers now back peddling their message because multiple people in the life have now died of covid |
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"That's really interesting. Also, all these kind of viruses are zoonotic. It looks like we're getting on top of this one, but unless we radically change the way we live - encroach less in natural environments, less aggressive farming, less exploitation of natural resources etc- the next one will emerge in exactly the same way. And the one after that, and the one after that... Globally, the way we live right now is like pissing in our own water supply, and wondering why we keep getting ill. Hopefully this last year - and the immense costs its levied on us - will be enough of a wake-up call that we can't just keep winging this stuff.
you would hope but i reckon we will see history repeat itself at least another once before we learn ... hopefully not in our lifetimes though
oh and thanks for a well thought out balanced first response as opposed to the lazy “tory austerity” ive come to expect from the forums "
I think that due to our manic desire to take and exploit from anywhere, we will very likely now get increased frequency of viruses jumping between species. 2 different arms will remain responsible for land and animal exploitation, separate from those in medical research and management. We'll follow a similar knee jerk response, when the next health disaster calls, arising from our short term demands, in the absence of broader learning and planning. As often said, we are the virus on the world |
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|
By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"That's really interesting. Also, all these kind of viruses are zoonotic. It looks like we're getting on top of this one, but unless we radically change the way we live - encroach less in natural environments, less aggressive farming, less exploitation of natural resources etc- the next one will emerge in exactly the same way. And the one after that, and the one after that... Globally, the way we live right now is like pissing in our own water supply, and wondering why we keep getting ill. Hopefully this last year - and the immense costs its levied on us - will be enough of a wake-up call that we can't just keep winging this stuff.
you would hope but i reckon we will see history repeat itself at least another once before we learn ... hopefully not in our lifetimes though
oh and thanks for a well thought out balanced first response as opposed to the lazy “tory austerity” ive come to expect from the forums
I think that due to our manic desire to take and exploit from anywhere, we will very likely now get increased frequency of viruses jumping between species. 2 different arms will remain responsible for land and animal exploitation, separate from those in medical research and management. We'll follow a similar knee jerk response, when the next health disaster calls, arising from our short term demands, in the absence of broader learning and planning. As often said, we are the virus on the world "
You're on form today sophie |
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"https://youtu.be/uSDC5L7qYUc
2015
Bush speaking about preparing for a future pandemic
Its always been a case of when and not if it happens,so why weren't we we more prepared? Stock piles of PPE,I V bags,beds ect
Covid-19 is not the same as flu which is what Bush was on about.
The PPE required for Covid-19 is higher spec than that used for flu.
The main problem was not that the NHS was not prepared or able to cope, it was and it did. The main problem is the population of the UK will not follow government guidance, that is the simple uncomfortable truth of the matter.
Well said. Doesn't matter who's in charge. If it is dependent on the great British public doing what is right. Its not going to work.
Did the great british decide to put covid patients into care homes?
That would be our great British tory party
That'll be the care home managers who have responsibility for the residents in the care home and the policy's and safety of all residents.
So nothing do with the gmnt?
I didn't say that Lionel. There have been some terrible decisions from government. They've done a few half decent things but have been drowned in a sea of incompetence. However. Not all things are somebody else's fault. Sometimes we have to admit that we have a part to play in either continuing to spread the infection or making choices to reduce the risk of spreading the infection.
I agree.
We all take some responsibility.
However when this is all over there should be some serious questions asked about how its been handled and especially the contracts scandal."
I agree, as well as the manner and process for awarding contracts. Let's find out what's happened and why, some may have legitimate emergency reasons, some may be outright corrupt.
The purpose needs to be clear though. To learn and move on, and rebuild trust in our govt, institutions and corporations. If we don't focus efforts and energies on rebuilding our communities and nations we will fracture further. And that's without getting into the risks of brexit. |
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"That's really interesting. Also, all these kind of viruses are zoonotic. It looks like we're getting on top of this one, but unless we radically change the way we live - encroach less in natural environments, less aggressive farming, less exploitation of natural resources etc- the next one will emerge in exactly the same way. And the one after that, and the one after that... Globally, the way we live right now is like pissing in our own water supply, and wondering why we keep getting ill. Hopefully this last year - and the immense costs its levied on us - will be enough of a wake-up call that we can't just keep winging this stuff.
you would hope but i reckon we will see history repeat itself at least another once before we learn ... hopefully not in our lifetimes though
oh and thanks for a well thought out balanced first response as opposed to the lazy “tory austerity” ive come to expect from the forums
I think that due to our manic desire to take and exploit from anywhere, we will very likely now get increased frequency of viruses jumping between species. 2 different arms will remain responsible for land and animal exploitation, separate from those in medical research and management. We'll follow a similar knee jerk response, when the next health disaster calls, arising from our short term demands, in the absence of broader learning and planning. As often said, we are the virus on the world
You're on form today sophie "
Thanks Dash. Have a lovely weekend |
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"https://youtu.be/uSDC5L7qYUc
2015
Bush speaking about preparing for a future pandemic
Its always been a case of when and not if it happens,so why weren't we we more prepared? Stock piles of PPE,I V bags,beds ect
Covid-19 is not the same as flu which is what Bush was on about.
The PPE required for Covid-19 is higher spec than that used for flu.
The main problem was not that the NHS was not prepared or able to cope, it was and it did. The main problem is the population of the UK will not follow government guidance, that is the simple uncomfortable truth of the matter.
Well said. Doesn't matter who's in charge. If it is dependent on the great British public doing what is right. Its not going to work.
The public are more likely to respect the advice of a good leader.
In your working life, has your behaviour and attitude towards you work not been dependent on the leadership skills of your boss because you have respected them more?"
Kind of, we don't work for the govt though, they work for us. And the perceived "leadership" is not just govt, its media, its institutions, its corporations. Absolutely agree though that public would generally leadership that is trustworthy, credible, and focused on a shared goal. At the end of the day though, whatever leadership, in this nation unless there is something in the "what's on it for me" column, people are not likely to do what they need. |
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"The People didn't so much 'vote the conservatives in' as much as they 'voted labour out'. When the People voted again it was to KEEP labour out.
And hows that going exactly?
And absolutely nothing to do with my answer.
I'll answer for you, it's going absolutely terrible
All over the World."
And its all borises fault. Isn't it? |
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"https://youtu.be/uSDC5L7qYUc
2015
Bush speaking about preparing for a future pandemic
Its always been a case of when and not if it happens,so why weren't we we more prepared? Stock piles of PPE,I V bags,beds ect
"
People would moan about governments wasting money stockpiling goods |
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|
By *ermite12ukMan
over a year ago
Solihull and Brentwood |
I think I can remember on the news that there were warehouses full of out of date PPE. (How masks and gowns can go out of date, beggars belief.)
Then the govt. panicked gave orders to overseas suppliers and the PPE came in not to spec. and needed to be returned for a refund.
Lots of cockups and still many more to come probably. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think I can remember on the news that there were warehouses full of out of date PPE. (How masks and gowns can go out of date, beggars belief.)
Then the govt. panicked gave orders to overseas suppliers and the PPE came in not to spec. and needed to be returned for a refund.
Lots of cockups and still many more to come probably. "
Polymers degraded over time, the rate depends on storage conditions and the exact polymer it's made of. We maintain stocks of medical parts in our lab, everything has an "expiry date" when it reaches this, we have to pull a random batch from storage and run it through our QC checks. If the parts pass, they are recertified for an additional period of time, if they fail, the batch is disposed of. Each recert uses a chunk of product, so even if it kept forever, it would eventually be used up in the recertification process. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think I can remember on the news that there were warehouses full of out of date PPE. (How masks and gowns can go out of date, beggars belief.)
Then the govt. panicked gave orders to overseas suppliers and the PPE came in not to spec. and needed to be returned for a refund.
Lots of cockups and still many more to come probably.
Polymers degraded over time, the rate depends on storage conditions and the exact polymer it's made of. We maintain stocks of medical parts in our lab, everything has an "expiry date" when it reaches this, we have to pull a random batch from storage and run it through our QC checks. If the parts pass, they are recertified for an additional period of time, if they fail, the batch is disposed of. Each recert uses a chunk of product, so even if it kept forever, it would eventually be used up in the recertification process."
i think lessons learned in hindsight would bs that we could buy a big chunk of the stock but dont stash it away never to be seen again then thrown away ... lots of it will already be used in the nhs so sort a FIFO system where when NHS order more stock it hits the pandemic stock and the stuff thats been lying a while is rotated out of the storage to NHS ... slightly more admin but means we can stock up without it being a potential waste |
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"https://youtu.be/uSDC5L7qYUc
2015
Bush speaking about preparing for a future pandemic
Its always been a case of when and not if it happens,so why weren't we we more prepared? Stock piles of PPE,I V bags,beds ect
People would moan about governments wasting money stockpiling goods"
Yeah when all that money could be given to their chums instead. |
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"The People didn't so much 'vote the conservatives in' as much as they 'voted labour out'. When the People voted again it was to KEEP labour out.
And hows that going exactly?
And absolutely nothing to do with my answer.
I'll answer for you, it's going absolutely terrible
All over the World.
And its all borises fault. Isn't it? "
No said anything of the sort |
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