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100,000 Covid deaths in the UK since the pandemic began
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"I'm getting very nervous about turning 64 this year " I doubt that your risk automatically increases by about 6 percentage points the day you turn 65. | |||
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"I'm getting very nervous about turning 64 this year " You’ll be fine  | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1%" Grim milestone | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1% Grim milestone " Adding the figures up you get 102% so my assumption would be that the lower three age group figures are rounded up. 1000 under 1 year olds is an awful lot. | |||
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"The interesting fact to me is that I'd have expected newborn babies to have some risk as their immunity is low. However, the percentage of deaths stays the same for babies, children and adults up to 44. I would not over analyse these statistics, without knowing how many positives in each age group have survived rather than just looking at deaths." I'd want to look at morbidity/ disability. My (suspected - testing wasn't good then) case, I was in a bad way for three months. I suspect babies would be more likely to bounce back faster than a 34 year old. (Obviously I am not representative of all 34 year olds, etc, just trying to say there's more to it than dying or not dying) | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable." This. We locked down too late, not once, not twice, but three times. Anyone can make a mistake once by ignoring worldwide evidence and domestic scientists, but to do so three times is a special kind of stupid.  | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. This. We locked down too late, not once, not twice, but three times. Anyone can make a mistake once by ignoring worldwide evidence and domestic scientists, but to do so three times is a special kind of stupid. "Very true. | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. This. We locked down too late, not once, not twice, but three times. Anyone can make a mistake once by ignoring worldwide evidence and domestic scientists, but to do so three times is a special kind of stupid. "Plus all the other fuck ups. | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. This. We locked down too late, not once, not twice, but three times. Anyone can make a mistake once by ignoring worldwide evidence and domestic scientists, but to do so three times is a special kind of stupid.
Plus all the other fuck ups."Don't get me started on those, or the corruption, otherwise I'll be on my soapbox all afternoon. | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. This. We locked down too late, not once, not twice, but three times. Anyone can make a mistake once by ignoring worldwide evidence and domestic scientists, but to do so three times is a special kind of stupid.
Plus all the other fuck ups.
Don't get me started on those, or the corruption, otherwise I'll be on my soapbox all afternoon."Same. Hard same. I'm flat out ignoring the government now. Has the law changed? Do I need to do anything different? Otherwise, it's plague outside and I'll see you once I'm vaccinated. | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. This. We locked down too late, not once, not twice, but three times. Anyone can make a mistake once by ignoring worldwide evidence and domestic scientists, but to do so three times is a special kind of stupid.
Plus all the other fuck ups.
Don't get me started on those, or the corruption, otherwise I'll be on my soapbox all afternoon."Shhhh, you aren’t allowed to criticise the government . Anything negative is the NHS and the British people’s fault, anything positive is because of the government | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. This. We locked down too late, not once, not twice, but three times. Anyone can make a mistake once by ignoring worldwide evidence and domestic scientists, but to do so three times is a special kind of stupid.
Plus all the other fuck ups.
Don't get me started on those, or the corruption, otherwise I'll be on my soapbox all afternoon.
Shhhh, you aren’t allowed to criticise the government . Anything negative is the NHS and the British people’s fault, anything positive is because of the government "Lolsob | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. This. We locked down too late, not once, not twice, but three times. Anyone can make a mistake once by ignoring worldwide evidence and domestic scientists, but to do so three times is a special kind of stupid. "Exactly This 
Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !! | |||
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"In the beginning, I remember someone (Witty?) saying in the press conference that coming out of the pandemic with 10,000 deaths would be a good outcome and it was more likely to be 30,000. Reality has far exceeded his expectations!" Jesus christ | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1% Grim milestone Adding the figures up you get 102% so my assumption would be that the lower three age group figures are rounded up. 1000 under 1 year olds is an awful lot." Only affects old people though apparently | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1% Grim milestone Adding the figures up you get 102% so my assumption would be that the lower three age group figures are rounded up. 1000 under 1 year olds is an awful lot. Only affects old people though apparently " I want some of these deniers to have the balls to say it to the faces of those who've lost children | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable." yeah we all follow the rules not making house parties using the mask and keep our distance | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. yeah we all follow the rules not making house parties using the mask and keep our distance" It's what the rules are, how they're implemented, and if they're followed. At all points the nation has failed. | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. yeah we all follow the rules not making house parties using the mask and keep our distance It's what the rules are, how they're implemented, and if they're followed. At all points the nation has failed." Yeah, but at least the UK is world beating at failing. | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. yeah we all follow the rules not making house parties using the mask and keep our distance It's what the rules are, how they're implemented, and if they're followed. At all points the nation has failed. Yeah, but at least the UK is world beating at failing." | |||
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Plus the however many thousands dealing with the after effects of having covid....
Then those who have been somewhat “poorlier” due to the impact of covid...
It’s genuinely heart breaking | |||
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"The first time around the excuse was that it was "unprecedented" and the government couldn't have known what was coming. This is false on two counts. One. Unprecedented means it hasn't happened before, but this is not the first pandemic ever. Two there are computer simulations which show what is coming. But hey. Let's buy that crap. What's the excuse now? Our government keeps looking for a new plan that works without realising that it is the execution of the plan, not the plan itself that's wrong. We keep expecting people to do the "right thing" for the "greater good". How many new infections every day and how many deaths will it take for the government to realise people don't think that way any more. Because clearly they don't. " The government also need to stop setting up people to fail. | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. yeah we all follow the rules not making house parties using the mask and keep our distance" Did they have house parties in the care homes? | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1%" Brought to you by arrogance, stupidity and incompetence; mainly in the current Government, but with lots of help from those UK citizens guilty of the same. Never mind all that though - let's blame someone else, eh? It's the only thing we're better at than queueing. | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1% Brought to you by arrogance, stupidity and incompetence; mainly in the current Government, but with lots of help from those UK citizens guilty of the same. Never mind all that though - let's blame someone else, eh? It's the only thing we're better at than queueing." Some people, yes. There are some doing way more than what's asked of them, and they get to a point where it's frustrating. I personally can do no more. I'm on self imposed house arrest (go to Tesco once a week, no I can't get a delivery slot). I can do no more. Why is it unreasonable to go "wtf you guys get it together", given I'm more than playing my part? | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1%" And here we go again. More doom and gloom. Do you really think all these threads need to be about statistics. Anyone can get it . Anyone can die. No age limit to Covid its been proven so why bother scaremongering with age statistics. I have no fear of it. I keep myself fit and stay safe and positive and in the vulnerable age group. Thats all you can do. A little positivity please for goodness sake | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1% And here we go again. More doom and gloom. Do you really think all these threads need to be about statistics. Anyone can get it . Anyone can die. No age limit to Covid its been proven so why bother scaremongering with age statistics. I have no fear of it. I keep myself fit and stay safe and positive and in the vulnerable age group. Thats all you can do. A little positivity please for goodness sake" You're not gonna find much positivity around here I'm afraid  | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1% And here we go again. More doom and gloom. Do you really think all these threads need to be about statistics. Anyone can get it . Anyone can die. No age limit to Covid its been proven so why bother scaremongering with age statistics. I have no fear of it. I keep myself fit and stay safe and positive and in the vulnerable age group. Thats all you can do. A little positivity please for goodness sake" If you want positivity maybe this is not a thread for you. | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1% Brought to you by arrogance, stupidity and incompetence; mainly in the current Government, but with lots of help from those UK citizens guilty of the same. Never mind all that though - let's blame someone else, eh? It's the only thing we're better at than queueing. Some people, yes. There are some doing way more than what's asked of them, and they get to a point where it's frustrating. I personally can do no more. I'm on self imposed house arrest (go to Tesco once a week, no I can't get a delivery slot). I can do no more. Why is it unreasonable to go "wtf you guys get it together", given I'm more than playing my part?" It isn't unreasonable - and I did indicate that it's not everyone's fault. However, given the nature of Covid 19, you don't need that many stupid, arrogant dickheads who think the rules don't apply to them, for their actions to become a real problem. Sadly, we have more than enough of their kind in the UK - and some of them are in the Cabinet. | |||
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" It isn't unreasonable - and I did indicate that it's not everyone's fault. However, given the nature of Covid 19, you don't need that many stupid, arrogant dickheads who think the rules don't apply to them, for their actions to become a real problem. Sadly, we have more than enough of their kind in the UK - and some of them are in the Cabinet." Agreed. I'm doing my best. I'm doing more than my share and I wish it helped more than it does | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1% And here we go again. More doom and gloom. Do you really think all these threads need to be about statistics. Anyone can get it . Anyone can die. No age limit to Covid its been proven so why bother scaremongering with age statistics. I have no fear of it. I keep myself fit and stay safe and positive and in the vulnerable age group. Thats all you can do. A little positivity please for goodness sake If you want positivity maybe this is not a thread for you." Oh my bad lets all be miserable and end of the world doomers. I apologise. I will find a positive im going to survive thread. Oh no There isn't one lol | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1% And here we go again. More doom and gloom. Do you really think all these threads need to be about statistics. Anyone can get it . Anyone can die. No age limit to Covid its been proven so why bother scaremongering with age statistics. I have no fear of it. I keep myself fit and stay safe and positive and in the vulnerable age group. Thats all you can do. A little positivity please for goodness sake If you want positivity maybe this is not a thread for you. Oh my bad lets all be miserable and end of the world doomers. I apologise. I will find a positive im going to survive thread. Oh no There isn't one lol" You are perfectly capable of starting threads rather than diminishing the deaths of so many people. | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1% And here we go again. More doom and gloom. Do you really think all these threads need to be about statistics. Anyone can get it . Anyone can die. No age limit to Covid its been proven so why bother scaremongering with age statistics. I have no fear of it. I keep myself fit and stay safe and positive and in the vulnerable age group. Thats all you can do. A little positivity please for goodness sake" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1% And here we go again. More doom and gloom. Do you really think all these threads need to be about statistics. Anyone can get it . Anyone can die. No age limit to Covid its been proven so why bother scaremongering with age statistics. I have no fear of it. I keep myself fit and stay safe and positive and in the vulnerable age group. Thats all you can do. A little positivity please for goodness sake If you want positivity maybe this is not a thread for you. Oh my bad lets all be miserable and end of the world doomers. I apologise. I will find a positive im going to survive thread. Oh no There isn't one lol You are perfectly capable of starting threads rather than diminishing the deaths of so many people." Diminishing deaths??? Im not diminishing anything I've just attended 2 funerals of family sdone no way am I doing that. Its horrific but so many people posting figures and statistics when in reality everyone is susceptible to it. We can all get it. Maybe you are right I will start a positive thread because its all too late now. We cannot right the wrongs we just have to look ahead to positive days. | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1% And here we go again. More doom and gloom. Do you really think all these threads need to be about statistics. Anyone can get it . Anyone can die. No age limit to Covid its been proven so why bother scaremongering with age statistics. I have no fear of it. I keep myself fit and stay safe and positive and in the vulnerable age group. Thats all you can do. A little positivity please for goodness sake If you want positivity maybe this is not a thread for you. Oh my bad lets all be miserable and end of the world doomers. I apologise. I will find a positive im going to survive thread. Oh no There isn't one lol You are perfectly capable of starting threads rather than diminishing the deaths of so many people." Who said she diminished any deaths? You do come across as rather sanctimonious at times. 'I'm doing more than my fair share, why can't everyone else?' Because it's not that simple is the easy answer. However, I'd just like to point out that your as safe as could be only leaving your house once a week so maybe try not allow it to get to you so much  | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1% And here we go again. More doom and gloom. Do you really think all these threads need to be about statistics. Anyone can get it . Anyone can die. No age limit to Covid its been proven so why bother scaremongering with age statistics. I have no fear of it. I keep myself fit and stay safe and positive and in the vulnerable age group. Thats all you can do. A little positivity please for goodness sake If you want positivity maybe this is not a thread for you. Oh my bad lets all be miserable and end of the world doomers. I apologise. I will find a positive im going to survive thread. Oh no There isn't one lol You are perfectly capable of starting threads rather than diminishing the deaths of so many people. Who said she diminished any deaths? You do come across as rather sanctimonious at times. 'I'm doing more than my fair share, why can't everyone else?' Because it's not that simple is the easy answer. However, I'd just like to point out that your as safe as could be only leaving your house once a week so maybe try not allow it to get to you so much "On the whole I'd take someone highlighting their own efforts over someone being stupid enough to want to make light of a really depressing milestone. We all want to come out of this thing, and most believe we will, but some things are worth taking the time to mark with the sadness and outrage they deserve. As mentioned, go start a positivity thread if you feel like there should be a space for it. | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1% And here we go again. More doom and gloom. Do you really think all these threads need to be about statistics. Anyone can get it . Anyone can die. No age limit to Covid its been proven so why bother scaremongering with age statistics. I have no fear of it. I keep myself fit and stay safe and positive and in the vulnerable age group. Thats all you can do. A little positivity please for goodness sake If you want positivity maybe this is not a thread for you. Oh my bad lets all be miserable and end of the world doomers. I apologise. I will find a positive im going to survive thread. Oh no There isn't one lol You are perfectly capable of starting threads rather than diminishing the deaths of so many people. Who said she diminished any deaths? You do come across as rather sanctimonious at times. 'I'm doing more than my fair share, why can't everyone else?' Because it's not that simple is the easy answer. However, I'd just like to point out that your as safe as could be only leaving your house once a week so maybe try not allow it to get to you so much
On the whole I'd take someone highlighting their own efforts over someone being stupid enough to want to make light of a really depressing milestone.
We all want to come out of this thing, and most believe we will, but some things are worth taking the time to mark with the sadness and outrage they deserve. As mentioned, go start a positivity thread if you feel like there should be a space for it. "Can I ask who is making light of this. ??? Who actually are you talking about as you have voiced it. Losing family members is definitely not making light of anything. Its a very serious thing and nothing to take lightly but these figures are on everyday all different and as I have said EVERYONE IS AT RISK. OLD. YOUNG. SICK. HEALTHY. EVERYONE so should never be taken lightly. But we need some positivity to get through this. If we don't have it who will | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1% And here we go again. More doom and gloom. Do you really think all these threads need to be about statistics. Anyone can get it . Anyone can die. No age limit to Covid its been proven so why bother scaremongering with age statistics. I have no fear of it. I keep myself fit and stay safe and positive and in the vulnerable age group. Thats all you can do. A little positivity please for goodness sake If you want positivity maybe this is not a thread for you. Oh my bad lets all be miserable and end of the world doomers. I apologise. I will find a positive im going to survive thread. Oh no There isn't one lol You are perfectly capable of starting threads rather than diminishing the deaths of so many people. Who said she diminished any deaths? You do come across as rather sanctimonious at times. 'I'm doing more than my fair share, why can't everyone else?' Because it's not that simple is the easy answer. However, I'd just like to point out that your as safe as could be only leaving your house once a week so maybe try not allow it to get to you so much
On the whole I'd take someone highlighting their own efforts over someone being stupid enough to want to make light of a really depressing milestone.
We all want to come out of this thing, and most believe we will, but some things are worth taking the time to mark with the sadness and outrage they deserve. As mentioned, go start a positivity thread if you feel like there should be a space for it.
Can I ask who is making light of this. ??? Who actually are you talking about as you have voiced it.
Losing family members is definitely not making light of anything. Its a very serious thing and nothing to take lightly but these figures are on everyday all different and as I have said EVERYONE IS AT RISK. OLD. YOUNG. SICK. HEALTHY. EVERYONE so should never be taken lightly. But we need some positivity to get through this. If we don't have it who will"I think the thread is just pointing out the grimness of the situation. Hopefully the vaccine effect will start to kick in and those horrific figures will come down but there is no point pretending it isnt bad. | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. This. We locked down too late, not once, not twice, but three times. Anyone can make a mistake once by ignoring worldwide evidence and domestic scientists, but to do so three times is a special kind of stupid.
Exactly This
Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !! "Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths? | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1% And here we go again. More doom and gloom. Do you really think all these threads need to be about statistics. Anyone can get it . Anyone can die. No age limit to Covid its been proven so why bother scaremongering with age statistics. I have no fear of it. I keep myself fit and stay safe and positive and in the vulnerable age group. Thats all you can do. A little positivity please for goodness sake If you want positivity maybe this is not a thread for you. Oh my bad lets all be miserable and end of the world doomers. I apologise. I will find a positive im going to survive thread. Oh no There isn't one lol You are perfectly capable of starting threads rather than diminishing the deaths of so many people. Who said she diminished any deaths? You do come across as rather sanctimonious at times. 'I'm doing more than my fair share, why can't everyone else?' Because it's not that simple is the easy answer. However, I'd just like to point out that your as safe as could be only leaving your house once a week so maybe try not allow it to get to you so much
On the whole I'd take someone highlighting their own efforts over someone being stupid enough to want to make light of a really depressing milestone.
We all want to come out of this thing, and most believe we will, but some things are worth taking the time to mark with the sadness and outrage they deserve. As mentioned, go start a positivity thread if you feel like there should be a space for it.
Can I ask who is making light of this. ??? Who actually are you talking about as you have voiced it.
Losing family members is definitely not making light of anything. Its a very serious thing and nothing to take lightly but these figures are on everyday all different and as I have said EVERYONE IS AT RISK. OLD. YOUNG. SICK. HEALTHY. EVERYONE so should never be taken lightly. But we need some positivity to get through this. If we don't have it who will"Must have been the "lol"... laughing out loud doesn't generally shout sombre reflection to me. But in any event, this is a thread about a particularly significant and damning statistic. It's not the place to complain about a lack of positivity, just like it's not the place to squabble. | |||
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"In the beginning, I remember someone (Witty?) saying in the press conference that coming out of the pandemic with 10,000 deaths would be a good outcome and it was more likely to be 30,000. Reality has far exceeded his expectations!" On the 28th March 2020: LONDON (Reuters) - The United Kingdom will have done well if it comes through the coronavirus crisis with fewer than 20,000 deaths, Stephen Powis, the national medical director of the National Health Service. I don't think that he was making a prediction that we might have 20,000 deaths to be honest, he was trying to emphasise how serious the situation was/is. | |||
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"Two things ; 1) the virus doesn't move itself, it doesn't Don its training shoes and move itself around. The virus didn't move itself to 1/4million new infections in the last week. That's all on us. 2) the survivors are hardly ever mentioned. There are two types, those who have had it and seem to have recovered. And those who have had it and continue to suffer with complications. Focusing on deaths with covid only doesn't give the whole story. " I understand what you are saying. The virus, though, does take time out now and again for example the virus had a break of 24 hours on Christmas Day. It also looks like the virus has booked it's summer holidays commencing 17 July 2021. | |||
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"In the beginning, I remember someone (Witty?) saying in the press conference that coming out of the pandemic with 10,000 deaths would be a good outcome and it was more likely to be 30,000. Reality has far exceeded his expectations! On the 28th March 2020: LONDON (Reuters) - The United Kingdom will have done well if it comes through the coronavirus crisis with fewer than 20,000 deaths, Stephen Powis, the national medical director of the National Health Service. I don't think that he was making a prediction that we might have 20,000 deaths to be honest, he was trying to emphasise how serious the situation was/is." In fairness I'm not sure that a year ago there were many people who had the knowledge or vision to think they'd have to keep making up restrictions to tell grown adults to stop spreading a highly infections and at times deadly virus. Or that we're able to predict the variants that become yet more infectious. | |||
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"Wow, lots of people need to go back to school. So, some facts, (In England and Wales) only TWO people under the age of 1 have died where covid was mentioned in the death certificate Only 26 people under the age of 20 have died, same conditions. These people may all have had other conditions which they would have died from anyway. Nobody knows. The average age of those dying was the same as the average age of people dying not from covid. Death isn't the reason for lockdown, overwhelming the NHS is the reason. The economic, social and mental issues caused by lockdown outweigh deaths by a massive margin. Just look at excess deaths from lack of cancer treatment. There have been 31 million fewer GP appointments because of covid - that will translate into a huge number of unnecessary deaths which could have been prevented. Most of those who have died would have died anyway. We should be relaxing lockdown now but even the government(s) don't understand basic statistics." Would love to get the sources for any of your claims about covid deaths being outweighed by economic, social, and mental issues, including these excess cancer deaths. I mean, since the government doesn't understand basic statistics maybe you could provide a report with your evidence to set them straight. | |||
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"Wow, lots of people need to go back to school. So, some facts, (In England and Wales) only TWO people under the age of 1 have died where covid was mentioned in the death certificate Only 26 people under the age of 20 have died, same conditions. These people may all have had other conditions which they would have died from anyway. Nobody knows. The average age of those dying was the same as the average age of people dying not from covid. Death isn't the reason for lockdown, overwhelming the NHS is the reason. The economic, social and mental issues caused by lockdown outweigh deaths by a massive margin. Just look at excess deaths from lack of cancer treatment. There have been 31 million fewer GP appointments because of covid - that will translate into a huge number of unnecessary deaths which could have been prevented. Most of those who have died would have died anyway. We should be relaxing lockdown now but even the government(s) don't understand basic statistics. Would love to get the sources for any of your claims about covid deaths being outweighed by economic, social, and mental issues, including these excess cancer deaths. I mean, since the government doesn't understand basic statistics maybe you could provide a report with your evidence to set them straight." Presumably because a lot if the workforce is still working? | |||
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"The government have had a totally undeserved free ride, using every known trick in the book, to excuse themselves from doing the 1 thing that is their key priority, to protect us. And some of us enable them and the sheer horrors of what they have been doing - usually not doing. Crimes against humanity that ought to be legally tried ss such. " This. | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. This. We locked down too late, not once, not twice, but three times. Anyone can make a mistake once by ignoring worldwide evidence and domestic scientists, but to do so three times is a special kind of stupid.
Exactly This
Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!
Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?"New Zealand has encountered 25 deaths...yes, 25. Uk is now over 100,000 deaths. Difference is based solely on the actions taken by the New Zealand Govt to take positive action and purposely address the issue and not to ignore it. They also listened to their medical experts very early on. So to answer your question it is the UK government who could have reduced or prevented 10's of thousands of deaths. Simple as that really.  | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. This. We locked down too late, not once, not twice, but three times. Anyone can make a mistake once by ignoring worldwide evidence and domestic scientists, but to do so three times is a special kind of stupid.
Exactly This
Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!
Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?
New Zealand has encountered 25 deaths...yes, 25.
Uk is now over 100,000 deaths.
Difference is based solely on the actions taken by the New Zealand Govt to take positive action and purposely address the issue and not to ignore it.
They also listened to their medical experts very early on.
So to answer your question it is the UK government who could have reduced or prevented 10's of thousands of deaths.
Simple as that really. " | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. This. We locked down too late, not once, not twice, but three times. Anyone can make a mistake once by ignoring worldwide evidence and domestic scientists, but to do so three times is a special kind of stupid.
Exactly This
Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!
Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?
New Zealand has encountered 25 deaths...yes, 25.
Uk is now over 100,000 deaths.
Difference is based solely on the actions taken by the New Zealand Govt to take positive action and purposely address the issue and not to ignore it.
They also listened to their medical experts very early on.
So to answer your question it is the UK government who could have reduced or prevented 10's of thousands of deaths.
Simple as that really. "It is really not comparable. Back in April there where more international passengers passing though Heathrow alone each day than all international airports in NZ saw in a week or more. We already had a significant and widespread distribution of cases in the country long before anyone even began to consider the painfall step of shutting down travel. | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. This. We locked down too late, not once, not twice, but three times. Anyone can make a mistake once by ignoring worldwide evidence and domestic scientists, but to do so three times is a special kind of stupid.
Exactly This
Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!
Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?
New Zealand has encountered 25 deaths...yes, 25.
Uk is now over 100,000 deaths.
Difference is based solely on the actions taken by the New Zealand Govt to take positive action and purposely address the issue and not to ignore it.
They also listened to their medical experts very early on.
So to answer your question it is the UK government who could have reduced or prevented 10's of thousands of deaths.
Simple as that really.
It is really not comparable. Back in April there where more international passengers passing though Heathrow alone each day than all international airports in NZ saw in a week or more. We already had a significant and widespread distribution of cases in the country long before anyone even began to consider the painfall step of shutting down travel. "Why was international travel still open in April? | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. This. We locked down too late, not once, not twice, but three times. Anyone can make a mistake once by ignoring worldwide evidence and domestic scientists, but to do so three times is a special kind of stupid.
Exactly This
Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!
Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?
New Zealand has encountered 25 deaths...yes, 25.
Uk is now over 100,000 deaths.
Difference is based solely on the actions taken by the New Zealand Govt to take positive action and purposely address the issue and not to ignore it.
They also listened to their medical experts very early on.
So to answer your question it is the UK government who could have reduced or prevented 10's of thousands of deaths.
Simple as that really.
It is really not comparable. Back in April there where more international passengers passing though Heathrow alone each day than all international airports in NZ saw in a week or more. We already had a significant and widespread distribution of cases in the country long before anyone even began to consider the painfall step of shutting down travel. "We took a year or so to restrict travel. We didn't even take precautions when Italy locked down. | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. This. We locked down too late, not once, not twice, but three times. Anyone can make a mistake once by ignoring worldwide evidence and domestic scientists, but to do so three times is a special kind of stupid.
Exactly This
Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!
Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?
New Zealand has encountered 25 deaths...yes, 25.
Uk is now over 100,000 deaths.
Difference is based solely on the actions taken by the New Zealand Govt to take positive action and purposely address the issue and not to ignore it.
They also listened to their medical experts very early on.
So to answer your question it is the UK government who could have reduced or prevented 10's of thousands of deaths.
Simple as that really.
It is really not comparable. Back in April there where more international passengers passing though Heathrow alone each day than all international airports in NZ saw in a week or more. We already had a significant and widespread distribution of cases in the country long before anyone even began to consider the painfall step of shutting down travel. "They have ignored scientific advice on at least 3 separate occasions. They threatened schools with legal action after being advised they were not safe. They shipped people from hospitals into care homes. They refused to take it seriously at the beginning(we will take it on the chin) | |||
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"Sorry....I'm not saying the number of deaths is comparable..or a comparison to who goes to NZ as opposed to the UK We have proven to be behind and chasing our tails in every aspect of this pandemic. Early Lock down- nope continue to travel and allow things to carry on. Cheltenham and footy etc etc Usage of masks - no aren't any good and not required. Full circle turn on that. Restrict travel- slow and ineffective. Boris has stated he takes full responsibility and so he should. He should be fooking jailed for his gross incompetence as a nations leader. If a death occurs in a workplace and its proven that an employer was negligent or complacent in that death they would end up in court being prosecuted by the HSE." Absolutely agree | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1% Brought to you by arrogance, stupidity and incompetence; mainly in the current Government, but with lots of help from those UK citizens guilty of the same. Never mind all that though - let's blame someone else, eh? It's the only thing we're better at than queueing." Here's the thing. People are people and will do what human nature dictates. A government that sets out a strategy based on human nature being other than what it is, is doomed to fail from the outset. So why embark on it? The answer is before us. When all their strategies fall they will turn around and blame humans for being what they are, rather than taking a realistic approach. Already on this forum we are blaming each other and saying that the government did all they could, where in reality they probably couldn't have done much worse. | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1% Brought to you by arrogance, stupidity and incompetence; mainly in the current Government, but with lots of help from those UK citizens guilty of the same. Never mind all that though - let's blame someone else, eh? It's the only thing we're better at than queueing. Here's the thing. People are people and will do what human nature dictates. A government that sets out a strategy based on human nature being other than what it is, is doomed to fail from the outset. So why embark on it? The answer is before us. When all their strategies fall they will turn around and blame humans for being what they are, rather than taking a realistic approach. Already on this forum we are blaming each other and saying that the government did all they could, where in reality they probably couldn't have done much worse." | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. This. We locked down too late, not once, not twice, but three times. Anyone can make a mistake once by ignoring worldwide evidence and domestic scientists, but to do so three times is a special kind of stupid.
Exactly This
Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!
Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?
New Zealand has encountered 25 deaths...yes, 25.
Uk is now over 100,000 deaths.
Difference is based solely on the actions taken by the New Zealand Govt to take positive action and purposely address the issue and not to ignore it.
They also listened to their medical experts very early on.
So to answer your question it is the UK government who could have reduced or prevented 10's of thousands of deaths.
Simple as that really. "No its not. That's just silly. Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density? Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself. Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities. Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower. Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions. Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them. | |||
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" No its not. That's just silly. Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density? Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself. Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities. Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower. Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions. Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them. " How many lives would have been saved if, last March or April, the government had said "no travel except for approved reasons. No holidays. Citizens can return and quarantine. I'm sorry you're upset but tough shit"? | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1%" The % figures are wrong why would you publish these, why not be accurate? | |||
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" No its not. That's just silly. Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density? Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself. Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities. Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower. Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions. Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them. How many lives would have been saved if, last March or April, the government had said "no travel except for approved reasons. No holidays. Citizens can return and quarantine. I'm sorry you're upset but tough shit"?" Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing | |||
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"My friend had the virus, but nobody else in her family got it ,not even her husband or her 3 teenage daughters, all have tested negative so work that out .." Presuming what you have said is true, what does this mean? | |||
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" No its not. That's just silly. Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density? Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself. Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities. Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower. Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions. Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them. How many lives would have been saved if, last March or April, the government had said "no travel except for approved reasons. No holidays. Citizens can return and quarantine. I'm sorry you're upset but tough shit"? Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing "Probably not many. The virus was endemic then. The relatively few international travelers are not going to make much difference. NZ was different, they didn’t have it when they shut down | |||
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" No its not. That's just silly. Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density? Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself. Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities. Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower. Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions. Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them. How many lives would have been saved if, last March or April, the government had said "no travel except for approved reasons. No holidays. Citizens can return and quarantine. I'm sorry you're upset but tough shit"? Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing "No, but foresight is . | |||
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" No its not. That's just silly. Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density? Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself. Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities. Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower. Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions. Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them. How many lives would have been saved if, last March or April, the government had said "no travel except for approved reasons. No holidays. Citizens can return and quarantine. I'm sorry you're upset but tough shit"? Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing "So how much hindsight did Australia and New Zealand have last March, and why did the UK not have the information to know that keeping disease out would... keep disease out? | |||
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" No its not. That's just silly. Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density? Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself. Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities. Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower. Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions. Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them. How many lives would have been saved if, last March or April, the government had said "no travel except for approved reasons. No holidays. Citizens can return and quarantine. I'm sorry you're upset but tough shit"? Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing "If only they planned for such an event? | |||
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" No its not. That's just silly. Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density? Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself. Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities. Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower. Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions. Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them. How many lives would have been saved if, last March or April, the government had said "no travel except for approved reasons. No holidays. Citizens can return and quarantine. I'm sorry you're upset but tough shit"?" Agree 100 % with that. I can remember at the time even in Feb when everyone was fucking off skiing to Italy and Switzerland and thinking.... What on earth is going on? Yes some of the decisions or lack of them and enforcement of them has been truly awful. And you didn't need to be any scientist to work some of them out. We are a long from out of this yet. | |||
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"My friend had the virus, but nobody else in her family got it ,not even her husband or her 3 teenage daughters, all have tested negative so work that out .." Yep my nephew has it badly in hospital. His wife and kids are negative. | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1% The % figures are wrong why would you publish these, why not be accurate?" . If you believe they are wrong then post what you think are the accurate ones. | |||
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" No its not. That's just silly. Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density? Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself. Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities. Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower. Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions. Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them. How many lives would have been saved if, last March or April, the government had said "no travel except for approved reasons. No holidays. Citizens can return and quarantine. I'm sorry you're upset but tough shit"? Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing "It's not hindsight, it was being said on here and in the general populace but funny enough not thought sensible to stop travellers from countries with higher cases than we had at the time from getting on a plane untested to travel here free from any restrictions.. Got fuck all to do with hindsight, but plenty to do with gross negligence.. | |||
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" No its not. That's just silly. Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density? Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself. Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities. Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower. Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions. Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them. How many lives would have been saved if, last March or April, the government had said "no travel except for approved reasons. No holidays. Citizens can return and quarantine. I'm sorry you're upset but tough shit"? Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing
If only they planned for such an event?"With the best will in the world nobody planned for this. Maybe the Chinese given how swiftly they responded. Youd hope we will all learn as I don't believe this will be the last of these.... | |||
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" No its not. That's just silly. Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density? Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself. Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities. Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower. Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions. Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them. How many lives would have been saved if, last March or April, the government had said "no travel except for approved reasons. No holidays. Citizens can return and quarantine. I'm sorry you're upset but tough shit"? Agree 100 % with that. I can remember at the time even in Feb when everyone was fucking off skiing to Italy and Switzerland and thinking.... What on earth is going on? Yes some of the decisions or lack of them and enforcement of them has been truly awful. And you didn't need to be any scientist to work some of them out. We are a long from out of this yet. " I think we agree more than we disagree - things need to change. We just have different angles on it. I think we want the same thing - an end to this with minimal (additional) suffering. | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. This. We locked down too late, not once, not twice, but three times. Anyone can make a mistake once by ignoring worldwide evidence and domestic scientists, but to do so three times is a special kind of stupid.
Exactly This
Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!
Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?
New Zealand has encountered 25 deaths...yes, 25.
Uk is now over 100,000 deaths.
Difference is based solely on the actions taken by the New Zealand Govt to take positive action and purposely address the issue and not to ignore it.
They also listened to their medical experts very early on.
So to answer your question it is the UK government who could have reduced or prevented 10's of thousands of deaths.
Simple as that really.
No its not. That's just silly.
Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?
Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.
Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.
Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.
Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.
Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them. "Sorry but what does the word govern mean to you. Because it sounds like you think citizens make the decisions and governments follow their rules? | |||
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" No its not. That's just silly. Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density? Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself. Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities. Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower. Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions. Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them. How many lives would have been saved if, last March or April, the government had said "no travel except for approved reasons. No holidays. Citizens can return and quarantine. I'm sorry you're upset but tough shit"? Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing
If only they planned for such an event?
With the best will in the world nobody planned for this. Maybe the Chinese given how swiftly they responded. Youd hope we will all learn as I don't believe this will be the last of these.... "I think that part of the world remembered SARS better and reacted accordingly. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" No its not. That's just silly. Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density? Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself. Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities. Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower. Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions. Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them. How many lives would have been saved if, last March or April, the government had said "no travel except for approved reasons. No holidays. Citizens can return and quarantine. I'm sorry you're upset but tough shit"? Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing
If only they planned for such an event?
With the best will in the world nobody planned for this. Maybe the Chinese given how swiftly they responded. Youd hope we will all learn as I don't believe this will be the last of these.... "Operation Cygnus.. Laid out how unprepared we were in 2016, the government asked for it's recommendations to be 'amended'and still failed to implement them.. Hence not enough PPE etc at the start.. | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. " 104,000 deaths WITH covid, not FROM covid. (Not that that makes it any/much more palatable) | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. 104,000 deaths WITH covid, not FROM covid. (Not that that makes it any/much more palatable)" If it's still grim why minimise it with the "with" canard? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. 104,000 deaths WITH covid, not FROM covid. (Not that that makes it any/much more palatable) If it's still grim why minimise it with the "with" canard? " Not minimising (hence the additional comment in brackets), but there is a clear and important distinction and the ONS themselves always clearly state WITH. | |||
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"A really simple thing to understand, If I am told my tyres are dodgy and my brakes need attention and I lose control and plow into an elderly couple it's not their fault.. Nor does it matter that they may have underlying health issues.."
The ONS have said that the death certificate records show that Covid is the cause in the overwhelming majority of cases, including post 28 day deaths.
And investigation shows that underlying conditions seems to include bloody anything, like anxiety or autism. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. 104,000 deaths WITH covid, not FROM covid. (Not that that makes it any/much more palatable)" 2977 people died in the 9/11 attack but since 94% of them had pre existing conditions only 178 died from a terrorist attack. This is how this sounds when people say died with covid and not from covid | |||
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" No its not. That's just silly. Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density? Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself. Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities. Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower. Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions. Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them. How many lives would have been saved if, last March or April, the government had said "no travel except for approved reasons. No holidays. Citizens can return and quarantine. I'm sorry you're upset but tough shit"? Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing
If only they planned for such an event?
With the best will in the world nobody planned for this. Maybe the Chinese given how swiftly they responded. Youd hope we will all learn as I don't believe this will be the last of these.... "But they did plan it? Operation..I cant remember what It was called.cygnot .didnt they do a dry run and find out we were short of supplies etc I agree.. you cant plan fully but we had every advantage in the world..and we blew it Remember nick Hancock standing up in parliament and saying we were fully prepared? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. 104,000 deaths WITH covid, not FROM covid. (Not that that makes it any/much more palatable) 2977 people died in the 9/11 attack but since 94% of them had pre existing conditions only 178 died from a terrorist attack. This is how this sounds when people say died with covid and not from covid"  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. This. We locked down too late, not once, not twice, but three times. Anyone can make a mistake once by ignoring worldwide evidence and domestic scientists, but to do so three times is a special kind of stupid.
Exactly This
Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!
Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?
New Zealand has encountered 25 deaths...yes, 25.
Uk is now over 100,000 deaths.
Difference is based solely on the actions taken by the New Zealand Govt to take positive action and purposely address the issue and not to ignore it.
They also listened to their medical experts very early on.
So to answer your question it is the UK government who could have reduced or prevented 10's of thousands of deaths.
Simple as that really.
No its not. That's just silly.
Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?
Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.
Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.
Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.
Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.
Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them.
Sorry but what does the word govern mean to you. Because it sounds like you think citizens make the decisions and governments follow their rules?"No that's not what I said at all. I said they can only govern with the will of the people. Clearly. Unless you're a Totalitarian state like China with a massive military and police and enforce with an iron fist. We needed stronger enforcement... We got "we will treat you like adults and trust you to do the right thing"..... It was Imo completely the wrong approach, we have demonstrated time and again that we can't be trusted. but we can't go back in time. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. 104,000 deaths WITH covid, not FROM covid. (Not that that makes it any/much more palatable) 2977 people died in the 9/11 attack but since 94% of them had pre existing conditions only 178 died from a terrorist attack. This is how this sounds when people say died with covid and not from covid" Agreed | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" No its not. That's just silly. Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density? Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself. Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities. Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower. Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions. Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them. How many lives would have been saved if, last March or April, the government had said "no travel except for approved reasons. No holidays. Citizens can return and quarantine. I'm sorry you're upset but tough shit"? Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing
If only they planned for such an event?
With the best will in the world nobody planned for this. Maybe the Chinese given how swiftly they responded. Youd hope we will all learn as I don't believe this will be the last of these....
Operation Cygnus..
Laid out how unprepared we were in 2016, the government asked for it's recommendations to be 'amended'and still failed to implement them..
Hence not enough PPE etc at the start.."You seem to know more about this than I and I defer. So a question. Was it not the case that there were lots of supplies (not enough but lots) that were squirelled away somewhere for such an emergency but due to a complete failure to check use by dates and rotate stock they had to be scrapped? Or was that just a fb rumour? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" No its not. That's just silly. Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density? Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself. Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities. Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower. Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions. Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them. How many lives would have been saved if, last March or April, the government had said "no travel except for approved reasons. No holidays. Citizens can return and quarantine. I'm sorry you're upset but tough shit"? Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing
If only they planned for such an event?
With the best will in the world nobody planned for this. Maybe the Chinese given how swiftly they responded. Youd hope we will all learn as I don't believe this will be the last of these....
Operation Cygnus..
Laid out how unprepared we were in 2016, the government asked for it's recommendations to be 'amended'and still failed to implement them..
Hence not enough PPE etc at the start..
You seem to know more about this than I and I defer. So a question. Was it not the case that there were lots of supplies (not enough but lots) that were squirelled away somewhere for such an emergency but due to a complete failure to check use by dates and rotate stock they had to be scrapped? Or was that just a fb rumour? "https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/07/what-was-exercise-cygnus-and-what-did-it-find | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. 104,000 deaths WITH covid, not FROM covid. (Not that that makes it any/much more palatable) 2977 people died in the 9/11 attack but since 94% of them had pre existing conditions only 178 died from a terrorist attack. This is how this sounds when people say died with covid and not from covid" So following your logic someone who was fatally injured in a car crash, but happened to have tested covid positive 25 days early....they died from covid. Utter nonsense. I agree it's highly probable that the vast majority of the 104000 did die FROM covid, but its factually wrong to say they all did. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. 104,000 deaths WITH covid, not FROM covid. (Not that that makes it any/much more palatable) 2977 people died in the 9/11 attack but since 94% of them had pre existing conditions only 178 died from a terrorist attack. This is how this sounds when people say died with covid and not from covid So following your logic someone who was fatally injured in a car crash, but happened to have tested covid positive 25 days early....they died from covid. Utter nonsense. I agree it's highly probable that the vast majority of the 104000 did die FROM covid, but its factually wrong to say they all did." Someone might have died of a heart attack while trying to flee the WTC. With terrorist attack not of terrorist attack. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. This. We locked down too late, not once, not twice, but three times. Anyone can make a mistake once by ignoring worldwide evidence and domestic scientists, but to do so three times is a special kind of stupid.
Exactly This
Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!
Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?
New Zealand has encountered 25 deaths...yes, 25.
Uk is now over 100,000 deaths.
Difference is based solely on the actions taken by the New Zealand Govt to take positive action and purposely address the issue and not to ignore it.
They also listened to their medical experts very early on.
So to answer your question it is the UK government who could have reduced or prevented 10's of thousands of deaths.
Simple as that really.
No its not. That's just silly.
Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?
Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.
Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.
Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.
Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.
Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them.
Sorry but what does the word govern mean to you. Because it sounds like you think citizens make the decisions and governments follow their rules?
No that's not what I said at all. I said they can only govern with the will of the people. Clearly. Unless you're a Totalitarian state like China with a massive military and police and enforce with an iron fist. We needed stronger enforcement... We got "we will treat you like adults and trust you to do the right thing"..... It was Imo completely the wrong approach, we have demonstrated time and again that we can't be trusted. but we can't go back in time. "Oh yes I completely agree with you. They washed their hands of responsibility and handed it to Mr & Mrs General Public to do the right thing. The question is what government is so naive that they do not understand the fundamentals of human nature? I don't know why we given two alternatives. Totalitarianism or widespread death. Is there nothing in between? But just presuming there is no in between.... which is preferable.... Totalitarianism for the duration of a pandemic or the death of thousands of your people? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. 104,000 deaths WITH covid, not FROM covid. (Not that that makes it any/much more palatable) 2977 people died in the 9/11 attack but since 94% of them had pre existing conditions only 178 died from a terrorist attack. This is how this sounds when people say died with covid and not from covid So following your logic someone who was fatally injured in a car crash, but happened to have tested covid positive 25 days early....they died from covid. Utter nonsense. . " Yes it was utter nonsense to get to that from my post or to assume that is how they would measure a death from a car crash | |||
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"Ok here's a question. A hypothetical person contracts pneumonia and Covid-19 and dies. Without the Covid-19 the person would have survived the pneumonia. Without the pneumonia that person would have survived the Covid-19. What did that person die of? Covid-19 or pneumonia?" Well obviously they have died of covid because covid causes pneumonia. When my friend was in hospital a few weeks ago she was diagnosed with Covid pneumonia. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. This. We locked down too late, not once, not twice, but three times. Anyone can make a mistake once by ignoring worldwide evidence and domestic scientists, but to do so three times is a special kind of stupid.
Exactly This
Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!
Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?
New Zealand has encountered 25 deaths...yes, 25.
Uk is now over 100,000 deaths.
Difference is based solely on the actions taken by the New Zealand Govt to take positive action and purposely address the issue and not to ignore it.
They also listened to their medical experts very early on.
So to answer your question it is the UK government who could have reduced or prevented 10's of thousands of deaths.
Simple as that really.
No its not. That's just silly.
Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?
Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.
Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.
Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.
Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.
Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them.
Sorry but what does the word govern mean to you. Because it sounds like you think citizens make the decisions and governments follow their rules?
No that's not what I said at all. I said they can only govern with the will of the people. Clearly. Unless you're a Totalitarian state like China with a massive military and police and enforce with an iron fist. We needed stronger enforcement... We got "we will treat you like adults and trust you to do the right thing"..... It was Imo completely the wrong approach, we have demonstrated time and again that we can't be trusted. but we can't go back in time.
Oh yes I completely agree with you. They washed their hands of responsibility and handed it to Mr & Mrs General Public to do the right thing.
The question is what government is so naive that they do not understand the fundamentals of human nature?
I don't know why we given two alternatives. Totalitarianism or widespread death. Is there nothing in between? But just presuming there is no in between.... which is preferable.... Totalitarianism for the duration of a pandemic or the death of thousands of your people?"Absolutely, I know what I would have preferred, then people I loved may still be alive. Having said that after nearly a year of lockdown for some who choose to and no lockdown for those who choose not to... Im not sure how happy our care home residents are (I'm referring to my mum who for a year was basically imprisoned in a room and for the first time in her life told me in tears "I'm so unhappy") someone who'd lived through war and rationing post war. But where it sounds like we differ is you seem to be giving all the blame to the govt and none to the public, whereas I believe however shit the govt are... I can take responsibility for my own actions and choose not to risk passing the infection to someone else.... And as such the public who have been told 20 times a day for 10 months to stay home and stop spreading, are as responsible. Looking forward the only way out is to get the public onside and get them to moderate their behaviours. How that's achieved.... Magic wand needed I fear. | |||
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"Ok here's a question. A hypothetical person contracts pneumonia and Covid-19 and dies. Without the Covid-19 the person would have survived the pneumonia. Without the pneumonia that person would have survived the Covid-19. What did that person die of? Covid-19 or pneumonia?" The death certificate would record that information - which I believe could record both as factors. | |||
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"I find it baffling that in the middle of a crisis with a brand new pathogen, we demand absolute precision and consistency in record keeping, and if we don't have it then we can dismiss some or all of the suffering that's happened. Some of the bodies from 9/11 were never recovered. We aren't 100% sure how they all died. We don't suggest they didn't die as the result of a terrorist attack. Why not?" Just ask why would a gmnt artificially inflate the death figures,making itself look even more incompetent and see if you get an answer. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. This. We locked down too late, not once, not twice, but three times. Anyone can make a mistake once by ignoring worldwide evidence and domestic scientists, but to do so three times is a special kind of stupid.
Exactly This
Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!
Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?
New Zealand has encountered 25 deaths...yes, 25.
Uk is now over 100,000 deaths.
Difference is based solely on the actions taken by the New Zealand Govt to take positive action and purposely address the issue and not to ignore it.
They also listened to their medical experts very early on.
So to answer your question it is the UK government who could have reduced or prevented 10's of thousands of deaths.
Simple as that really.
No its not. That's just silly.
Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?
Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.
Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.
Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.
Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.
Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them.
Sorry but what does the word govern mean to you. Because it sounds like you think citizens make the decisions and governments follow their rules?
No that's not what I said at all. I said they can only govern with the will of the people. Clearly. Unless you're a Totalitarian state like China with a massive military and police and enforce with an iron fist. We needed stronger enforcement... We got "we will treat you like adults and trust you to do the right thing"..... It was Imo completely the wrong approach, we have demonstrated time and again that we can't be trusted. but we can't go back in time.
Oh yes I completely agree with you. They washed their hands of responsibility and handed it to Mr & Mrs General Public to do the right thing.
The question is what government is so naive that they do not understand the fundamentals of human nature?
I don't know why we given two alternatives. Totalitarianism or widespread death. Is there nothing in between? But just presuming there is no in between.... which is preferable.... Totalitarianism for the duration of a pandemic or the death of thousands of your people?
Absolutely, I know what I would have preferred, then people I loved may still be alive. Having said that after nearly a year of lockdown for some who choose to and no lockdown for those who choose not to... Im not sure how happy our care home residents are (I'm referring to my mum who for a year was basically imprisoned in a room and for the first time in her life told me in tears "I'm so unhappy") someone who'd lived through war and rationing post war.
But where it sounds like we differ is you seem to be giving all the blame to the govt and none to the public, whereas I believe however shit the govt are... I can take responsibility for my own actions and choose not to risk passing the infection to someone else.... And as such the public who have been told 20 times a day for 10 months to stay home and stop spreading, are as responsible.
Looking forward the only way out is to get the public onside and get them to moderate their behaviours. How that's achieved.... Magic wand needed I fear. "I think we basically agree that people should have behaved differently to the way they did. In my opion people should have been given the opportunity to do the right thing and if they didn't they should have been made to behave. Yes I believe in freedom. But does this mean I don't have to pay taxes if I don't feel like it? The day I miss a tax payment HMRC will kick my ass all the way into the stone age with no mercy. So why is it our government is "soft" on spread of a virus, but ruthless cruel and vindictive when it comes to filling their coffers? | |||
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"I find it baffling that in the middle of a crisis with a brand new pathogen, we demand absolute precision and consistency in record keeping, and if we don't have it then we can dismiss some or all of the suffering that's happened. Some of the bodies from 9/11 were never recovered. We aren't 100% sure how they all died. We don't suggest they didn't die as the result of a terrorist attack. Why not? Just ask why would a gmnt artificially inflate the death figures,making itself look even more incompetent and see if you get an answer. " The only reasons I can think of involve conspiracy theories. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" No its not. That's just silly. Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density? Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself. Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities. Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower. Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions. Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them. How many lives would have been saved if, last March or April, the government had said "no travel except for approved reasons. No holidays. Citizens can return and quarantine. I'm sorry you're upset but tough shit"? Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing
If only they planned for such an event?
With the best will in the world nobody planned for this. Maybe the Chinese given how swiftly they responded. Youd hope we will all learn as I don't believe this will be the last of these....
Operation Cygnus..
Laid out how unprepared we were in 2016, the government asked for it's recommendations to be 'amended'and still failed to implement them..
Hence not enough PPE etc at the start..
You seem to know more about this than I and I defer. So a question. Was it not the case that there were lots of supplies (not enough but lots) that were squirelled away somewhere for such an emergency but due to a complete failure to check use by dates and rotate stock they had to be scrapped? Or was that just a fb rumour? "Some items we had lots of, some were in date and some we had far less than we were meant to have.. To be fair whether we had enough even with full in date stocks is another question which we will only know later as it has been as we all know a massive event.. Fact is the recommendations from the three day exercise involving over 900 experts, planners, cobra meetings etc were not implemented and that is a core failing.. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. This. We locked down too late, not once, not twice, but three times. Anyone can make a mistake once by ignoring worldwide evidence and domestic scientists, but to do so three times is a special kind of stupid.
Exactly This
Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!
Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?
New Zealand has encountered 25 deaths...yes, 25.
Uk is now over 100,000 deaths.
Difference is based solely on the actions taken by the New Zealand Govt to take positive action and purposely address the issue and not to ignore it.
They also listened to their medical experts very early on.
So to answer your question it is the UK government who could have reduced or prevented 10's of thousands of deaths.
Simple as that really.
No its not. That's just silly.
Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density?
Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself.
Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities.
Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower.
Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions.
Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them.
Sorry but what does the word govern mean to you. Because it sounds like you think citizens make the decisions and governments follow their rules?
No that's not what I said at all. I said they can only govern with the will of the people. Clearly. Unless you're a Totalitarian state like China with a massive military and police and enforce with an iron fist. We needed stronger enforcement... We got "we will treat you like adults and trust you to do the right thing"..... It was Imo completely the wrong approach, we have demonstrated time and again that we can't be trusted. but we can't go back in time.
Oh yes I completely agree with you. They washed their hands of responsibility and handed it to Mr & Mrs General Public to do the right thing.
The question is what government is so naive that they do not understand the fundamentals of human nature?
I don't know why we given two alternatives. Totalitarianism or widespread death. Is there nothing in between? But just presuming there is no in between.... which is preferable.... Totalitarianism for the duration of a pandemic or the death of thousands of your people?
Absolutely, I know what I would have preferred, then people I loved may still be alive. Having said that after nearly a year of lockdown for some who choose to and no lockdown for those who choose not to... Im not sure how happy our care home residents are (I'm referring to my mum who for a year was basically imprisoned in a room and for the first time in her life told me in tears "I'm so unhappy") someone who'd lived through war and rationing post war.
But where it sounds like we differ is you seem to be giving all the blame to the govt and none to the public, whereas I believe however shit the govt are... I can take responsibility for my own actions and choose not to risk passing the infection to someone else.... And as such the public who have been told 20 times a day for 10 months to stay home and stop spreading, are as responsible.
Looking forward the only way out is to get the public onside and get them to moderate their behaviours. How that's achieved.... Magic wand needed I fear.
I think we basically agree that people should have behaved differently to the way they did.
In my opion people should have been given the opportunity to do the right thing and if they didn't they should have been made to behave.
Yes I believe in freedom. But does this mean I don't have to pay taxes if I don't feel like it? The day I miss a tax payment HMRC will kick my ass all the way into the stone age with no mercy. So why is it our government is "soft" on spread of a virus, but ruthless cruel and vindictive when it comes to filling their coffers?"You make a good point. I've been astonished how soft this tory govt have been on enforcing the behaviour restrictions. Its inexplicable and more akin to a laissez faire left wing French govt than anything..anyway we can't undo what's been done. | |||
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"The Tories have always seen themselves as the party of the small state, Boris is a libertarian and was talking in March when the scientific community were saying lock down now about the rights of someone free born to go the pub .. What was needed was strong leadership to deal with this and sadly as shown by playing catch up when locking down too late three times now he just isn't that.." Yes, it's the libertarians coping with the fact that a libertarian policy is utterly disastrous during a pandemic. | |||
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" No its not. That's just silly. Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density? Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself. Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities. Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower. Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions. Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them. How many lives would have been saved if, last March or April, the government had said "no travel except for approved reasons. No holidays. Citizens can return and quarantine. I'm sorry you're upset but tough shit"? Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing
If only they planned for such an event?
With the best will in the world nobody planned for this. Maybe the Chinese given how swiftly they responded. Youd hope we will all learn as I don't believe this will be the last of these.... "Nobody could have planned it??? Really!!!! Now who's saying silly things. Other countries actually have and do plan for pandemic emergencies. Countries like China, Singapore and even NZ. That's similar to what Japan do for earthquakes. Australia, New Zealand and other Asian countries weren't given a nod and wink before the pandemic was world-wide declared. It really wasn't' a secret when China declared the issue. But they took appropriate safety measures to protect and implement well-rehearsed procedures that they had in place to address it and they didn't put their head in the sand like the U.K Emergency planning and emergency preparedness is actually big business and worldwide and would you believe it when I say, the UK excels and is a world leader in giving the training and input. Tad perverse that isn't it when we preach to others to implement policy and procedures when we just ignore it ourselves. | |||
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"The Tories have always seen themselves as the party of the small state, Boris is a libertarian and was talking in March when the scientific community were saying lock down now about the rights of someone free born to go the pub .. What was needed was strong leadership to deal with this and sadly as shown by playing catch up when locking down too late three times now he just isn't that.. Yes, it's the libertarians coping with the fact that a libertarian policy is utterly disastrous during a pandemic." Beautifully put | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1% The % figures are wrong why would you publish these, why not be accurate?. If you believe they are wrong then post what you think are the accurate ones." Add them up the math is incorrect it adds up to 103% | |||
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" No its not. That's just silly. Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density? Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself. Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities. Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower. Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions. Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them. How many lives would have been saved if, last March or April, the government had said "no travel except for approved reasons. No holidays. Citizens can return and quarantine. I'm sorry you're upset but tough shit"? Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing
If only they planned for such an event?
With the best will in the world nobody planned for this. Maybe the Chinese given how swiftly they responded. Youd hope we will all learn as I don't believe this will be the last of these....
Nobody could have planned it??? Really!!!!
Now who's saying silly things.
Other countries actually have and do plan for pandemic emergencies. Countries like China, Singapore and even NZ. That's similar to what Japan do for earthquakes. Australia, New Zealand and other Asian countries weren't given a nod and wink before the pandemic was world-wide declared.
It really wasn't' a secret when China declared the issue.
But they took appropriate safety measures to protect and implement well-rehearsed procedures that they had in place to address it and they didn't put their head in the sand like the U.K
Emergency planning and emergency preparedness is actually big business and worldwide and would you believe it when I say, the UK excels and is a world leader in giving the training and input. Tad perverse that isn't it when we preach to others to implement policy and procedures when we just ignore it ourselves.
"I was 17 when SARS was a thing, and it was much more of a big deal in Australia. | |||
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"My friend had the virus, but nobody else in her family got it ,not even her husband or her 3 teenage daughters, all have tested negative so work that out .. Presuming what you have said is true, what does this mean? " ..its very true ,also anouther friend whos wife had and he never ,and been tested a few times .. | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1% The % figures are wrong why would you publish these, why not be accurate?. If you believe they are wrong then post what you think are the accurate ones. Add them up the math is incorrect it adds up to 103%" It's just the way the op posted the numbers... The last 2 are actually 1 percent and the others are just rounding up. All is OK if you actually look at the ons rather then fabs version of bbcs version of ons. | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1% The % figures are wrong why would you publish these, why not be accurate?. If you believe they are wrong then post what you think are the accurate ones. Add them up the math is incorrect it adds up to 103%" If you read post 6 in this thread you will see that the figures add up to 102% and its likely the bottom three 1% figures are rounded up, indeed another member posted later the actual deaths of the lower three age groups. | |||
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"Prime Minister Boris Johnson said he took "full responsibility" for the government's actions, saying: "We truly did everything we could." This, from the stupid, lying, incompetent cunt who was fine with the Cheltenham Festival going ahead and bragged about shaking hands with Covid patients. If you really think he's going to take full responsibility for the blood on his hands - or that he did everything he could - you're a fuckwit." We should help him take full responsibility  | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1%" From COVID alone or with COVID? | |||
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"100,000 deaths? In a population of what 65 million? Is that not about 0.15% of the population? Feels quite slight given the increase in mass unemployment, huge spike in those turning to universal credit and the horrific situation our school children find themselves in. Doesn’t feel justified looking at it in percentage terms.
I wouldn't respond to him..
He confirmed in another thread he's only on a wind up..
I’m being very serious in this thread however. You have to admit it’s a very low percentage."Mate I think you should go and have a long hard look at yourself in the mirror and read your comments out loud. What percentage is unacceptable for you then if 100,000 isn't? Honestly the lack of human compassion is staggering at times. I think during WW1 the term cannon fodder was used, you seem to be adopting the same attitude towards the elderly. | |||
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"Prime Minister Boris Johnson said he took "full responsibility" for the government's actions, saying: "We truly did everything we could." This, from the stupid, lying, incompetent cunt who was fine with the Cheltenham Festival going ahead and bragged about shaking hands with Covid patients. If you really think he's going to take full responsibility for the blood on his hands - or that he did everything he could - you're a fuckwit."
We will see what responsibility he takes when its over. | |||
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"100,000 deaths? In a population of what 65 million? Is that not about 0.15% of the population? Feels quite slight given the increase in mass unemployment, huge spike in those turning to universal credit and the horrific situation our school children find themselves in. Doesn’t feel justified looking at it in percentage terms.
I wouldn't respond to him..
He confirmed in another thread he's only on a wind up..
I’m being very serious in this thread however. You have to admit it’s a very low percentage.
Mate I think you should go and have a long hard look at yourself in the mirror and read your comments out loud.
What percentage is unacceptable for you then if 100,000 isn't?
Honestly the lack of human compassion is staggering at times.
I think during WW1 the term cannon fodder was used, you seem to be adopting the same attitude towards the elderly.
"We talk and act like this hasn’t happened to the human population since our existence on this planet. Throughout our history we have had population controlling events. While it’s sad people are dying it’s encouraging the vast majority are not. It’s not about putting an ‘acceptable’ number on deaths, its about ensuring we don’t get consumed by the negative. | |||
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"Would be interesting to know how many have long term effects " Agreed. 100 000 people lost forever. More with at least medium term health effects. Grief, loss, loss of quality of life. It's dreadful. | |||
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"Would be interesting to know how many have long term effects " Read I think on the BBC website that they're looking at one in ten with long term effects.. | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. This. We locked down too late, not once, not twice, but three times. Anyone can make a mistake once by ignoring worldwide evidence and domestic scientists, but to do so three times is a special kind of stupid.
Plus all the other fuck ups."If people kept to the restrictions, it wouldn't keep happening. I include the company I work for. All we do is warehouse clothing for a supermarket. Never shut once. Not essential at all in my opinion | |||
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"Would be interesting to know how many have long term effects " I'm not sure at the moment if we have enough data on that but anecdotally, I know six people that were previously healthy with no health problems who are still struggling months after, in one case 8 months after Having covid still struggles with shortness of breath and fatigue and is on long term sick leave from work, he's 29. | |||
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"Ok here's a question. A hypothetical person contracts pneumonia and Covid-19 and dies. Without the Covid-19 the person would have survived the pneumonia. Without the pneumonia that person would have survived the Covid-19. What did that person die of? Covid-19 or pneumonia?" Probably hospitalitous | |||
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"Should we interrupt services for the war dead or commemorations of terrorist attacks to celebrate all the people who didn't die? Why is this not equally crass and inappropriate?" I think some people just look for attention | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. yeah we all follow the rules not making house parties using the mask and keep our distance It's what the rules are, how they're implemented, and if they're followed. At all points the nation has failed." My advice.. back to Ossie... They doing a great job.. | |||
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"Ok here's a question. A hypothetical person contracts pneumonia and Covid-19 and dies. Without the Covid-19 the person would have survived the pneumonia. Without the pneumonia that person would have survived the Covid-19. What did that person die of? Covid-19 or pneumonia?" Old age ? | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable." The magic wand presumably.. | |||
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"100,000 deaths? In a population of what 65 million? Is that not about 0.15% of the population? Feels quite slight given the increase in mass unemployment, huge spike in those turning to universal credit and the horrific situation our school children find themselves in. Doesn’t feel justified looking at it in percentage terms.
I wouldn't respond to him..
He confirmed in another thread he's only on a wind up..
I’m being very serious in this thread however. You have to admit it’s a very low percentage.
Mate I think you should go and have a long hard look at yourself in the mirror and read your comments out loud.
What percentage is unacceptable for you then if 100,000 isn't?
Honestly the lack of human compassion is staggering at times.
I think during WW1 the term cannon fodder was used, you seem to be adopting the same attitude towards the elderly.
We talk and act like this hasn’t happened to the human population since our existence on this planet.
Throughout our history we have had population controlling events. While it’s sad people are dying it’s encouraging the vast majority are not.
It’s not about putting an ‘acceptable’ number on deaths, its about ensuring we don’t get consumed by the negative."The difference is when these "other" events took place medical science wasn't advanced enough to help and stop it. However it is now so just letting people die "just because" it's one of those every now and then event's is totally unacceptable. | |||
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"Would be interesting to know how many have long term effects " People live with long term effects of lots of things, poverty, abuse, illness not just covid | |||
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"Would be interesting to know how many have long term effects People live with long term effects of lots of things, poverty, abuse, illness not just covid" Poverty isnt contagious. | |||
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"Would be interesting to know how many have long term effects People live with long term effects of lots of things, poverty, abuse, illness not just covid Poverty isnt contagious." I think you'll find people born into poverty will disagree with that  | |||
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"Would be interesting to know how many have long term effects People live with long term effects of lots of things, poverty, abuse, illness not just covid Poverty isnt contagious. I think you'll find people born into poverty will disagree with that "It is possible to pull yourself out of poverty and make a success of live. I hate to drone on, but my Grandad who died yesterday is a classic example. Born into extreme poverty, his mum died when he was 2. His dad was a manual dock labourer, no guarantee of work day to day. He had 2 sisters too. He left school with no quals at 14 and joined the Army. I can tell you now, the estate he is leaving bears not one scrap of resemblance to his origins. And he achieved it all through damned hard work. One man, one example. But poverty doesn't have to be contagious. | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. This. We locked down too late, not once, not twice, but three times. Anyone can make a mistake once by ignoring worldwide evidence and domestic scientists, but to do so three times is a special kind of stupid.
Exactly This
Regardless of what those percentages are; the fact that most of those deaths could have been prevented, is what makes the whole thing horrifying !!
Prevented. By whom? Who could have prevented these deaths?
New Zealand has encountered 25 deaths...yes, 25.
Uk is now over 100,000 deaths.
Difference is based solely on the actions taken by the New Zealand Govt to take positive action and purposely address the issue and not to ignore it.
They also listened to their medical experts very early on.
So to answer your question it is the UK government who could have reduced or prevented 10's of thousands of deaths.
Simple as that really.
It is really not comparable. Back in April there where more international passengers passing though Heathrow alone each day than all international airports in NZ saw in a week or more. We already had a significant and widespread distribution of cases in the country long before anyone even began to consider the painfall step of shutting down travel. "So why didn't we just shut down Heathrow? And before you say anything involving money, keeping the borders open and allowing free travel in and out has been one of, if not the, prime drivers of the pandemic in the UK. By my finger in the air estimate - closing heathrow before end of march could have saved about £200 billion? | |||
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"Would be interesting to know how many have long term effects People live with long term effects of lots of things, poverty, abuse, illness not just covid" I wonder if a raging pandemic makes things like poverty or abuse more difficult to escape from. Hmm. I wonder if people in poverty are more likely to catch Covid. Hmm. | |||
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"... I wonder if a raging pandemic makes things like poverty or abuse more difficult to escape from. Hmm. I wonder if people in poverty are more likely to catch Covid. Hmm." Don't even waste time wondering. It's a dead cert! | |||
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"... I wonder if a raging pandemic makes things like poverty or abuse more difficult to escape from. Hmm. I wonder if people in poverty are more likely to catch Covid. Hmm. Don't even waste time wondering. It's a dead cert!" Lol I know | |||
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"Would be interesting to know how many have long term effects People live with long term effects of lots of things, poverty, abuse, illness not just covid Poverty isnt contagious. I think you'll find people born into poverty will disagree with that "I disagree I was born into poverty 4 brothers and I. I joined the military along with my brothers we are all doing fine. There are avenues to get out of poverty if you apply yourself. Quit relying on government handouts and do something. Society does not owe you anything. | |||
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" No its not. That's just silly. Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density? Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself. Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities. Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower. Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions. Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them. How many lives would have been saved if, last March or April, the government had said "no travel except for approved reasons. No holidays. Citizens can return and quarantine. I'm sorry you're upset but tough shit"? Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing
If only they planned for such an event?
With the best will in the world nobody planned for this. Maybe the Chinese given how swiftly they responded. Youd hope we will all learn as I don't believe this will be the last of these.... "Erm, yes they did plan for this. They had previously done an exercise specifically to test the response of the country to a pandemic. The report showed that their actions would lead to the deaths of thousands, and that they needed to learn lessons and formulate better plans. What did they do? The flushed the report down the kharzi and said "fuck that, looks like hard work, bugger it there'll never be a pandemic". Then when they had three months from the first reports from China, then actual telly coverage of what was happening in italy, to the virus reaching these shores, what did the government do? Did they say, we did an exercise about that, better dust it off and see what the report said? Did they buggery. They had post brexit parties. Boris went on holiday. They held photo ops where they minimised the seriousness of it, where they encouraged people in bad behaviour. They waited, they shilly shallied, they refused to make decisions. They embezzeled money by diverting contracts for essential health supplies to their families and friends. So yes they did plan for this. But instead of planning how to save lives and avoid bankrupting the country, they schemed how to personally benefit. They thought specifically about just themselves, and fuck the rest of us. | |||
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" No its not. That's just silly. Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density? Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself. Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities. Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower. Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions. Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them. How many lives would have been saved if, last March or April, the government had said "no travel except for approved reasons. No holidays. Citizens can return and quarantine. I'm sorry you're upset but tough shit"? Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing
If only they planned for such an event?
With the best will in the world nobody planned for this. Maybe the Chinese given how swiftly they responded. Youd hope we will all learn as I don't believe this will be the last of these....
Erm, yes they did plan for this. They had previously done an exercise specifically to test the response of the country to a pandemic. The report showed that their actions would lead to the deaths of thousands, and that they needed to learn lessons and formulate better plans. What did they do? The flushed the report down the kharzi and said "fuck that, looks like hard work, bugger it there'll never be a pandemic".
Then when they had three months from the first reports from China, then actual telly coverage of what was happening in italy, to the virus reaching these shores, what did the government do?
Did they say, we did an exercise about that, better dust it off and see what the report said? Did they buggery. They had post brexit parties. Boris went on holiday. They held photo ops where they minimised the seriousness of it, where they encouraged people in bad behaviour. They waited, they shilly shallied, they refused to make decisions. They embezzeled money by diverting contracts for essential health supplies to their families and friends.
So yes they did plan for this. But instead of planning how to save lives and avoid bankrupting the country, they schemed how to personally benefit. They thought specifically about just themselves, and fuck the rest of us."Applauds | |||
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" No its not. That's just silly. Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density? Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself. Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities. Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower. Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions. Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them. How many lives would have been saved if, last March or April, the government had said "no travel except for approved reasons. No holidays. Citizens can return and quarantine. I'm sorry you're upset but tough shit"? Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing
If only they planned for such an event?
With the best will in the world nobody planned for this. Maybe the Chinese given how swiftly they responded. Youd hope we will all learn as I don't believe this will be the last of these....
Erm, yes they did plan for this. They had previously done an exercise specifically to test the response of the country to a pandemic. The report showed that their actions would lead to the deaths of thousands, and that they needed to learn lessons and formulate better plans. What did they do? The flushed the report down the kharzi and said "fuck that, looks like hard work, bugger it there'll never be a pandemic".
Then when they had three months from the first reports from China, then actual telly coverage of what was happening in italy, to the virus reaching these shores, what did the government do?
Did they say, we did an exercise about that, better dust it off and see what the report said? Did they buggery. They had post brexit parties. Boris went on holiday. They held photo ops where they minimised the seriousness of it, where they encouraged people in bad behaviour. They waited, they shilly shallied, they refused to make decisions. They embezzeled money by diverting contracts for essential health supplies to their families and friends.
So yes they did plan for this. But instead of planning how to save lives and avoid bankrupting the country, they schemed how to personally benefit. They thought specifically about just themselves, and fuck the rest of us.
Applauds "And once again what is the solutions you bitch and gripe about what can the "Government" can do for you. Yet people still going against the rules. Welcome to democracy it is fallible but is set into place for the Freedom you are enjoying. Take personal responsibility not "government" responsibility. Your life is your own. Guess a Communist state better suits your needs if you think otherwise. | |||
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" And once again what is the solutions you bitch and gripe about what can the "Government" can do for you. Yet people still going against the rules. Welcome to democracy it is fallible but is set into place for the Freedom you are enjoying. Take personal responsibility not "government" responsibility. Your life is your own. Guess a Communist state better suits your needs if you think otherwise." And if we're doing absolutely everything we personally can? Then what? | |||
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" And once again what is the solutions you bitch and gripe about what can the "Government" can do for you. Yet people still going against the rules. Welcome to democracy it is fallible but is set into place for the Freedom you are enjoying. Take personal responsibility not "government" responsibility. Your life is your own. Guess a Communist state better suits your needs if you think otherwise. And if we're doing absolutely everything we personally can? Then what?" Then your doing what is necessary in your own personal life. Cheers. | |||
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" And once again what is the solutions you bitch and gripe about what can the "Government" can do for you. Yet people still going against the rules. Welcome to democracy it is fallible but is set into place for the Freedom you are enjoying. Take personal responsibility not "government" responsibility. Your life is your own. Guess a Communist state better suits your needs if you think otherwise. And if we're doing absolutely everything we personally can? Then what? Then your doing what is necessary in your own personal life. Cheers." And I'm not allowed to care about my community, my friends, the country I call my home, to wish things were better? Or is love of country communist too? | |||
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" And once again what is the solutions you bitch and gripe about what can the "Government" can do for you. Yet people still going against the rules. Welcome to democracy it is fallible but is set into place for the Freedom you are enjoying. Take personal responsibility not "government" responsibility. Your life is your own. Guess a Communist state better suits your needs if you think otherwise. And if we're doing absolutely everything we personally can? Then what? Then your doing what is necessary in your own personal life. Cheers. And I'm not allowed to care about my community, my friends, the country I call my home, to wish things were better? Or is love of country communist too?" Ok so what needs to be changed ? Your not going to mitigate it your not going to stop it unless everyone vaccinated. What can the government do to control it without vaccinating everyone ? You want total military lockdown ? If someone breaks curfew then what if someone breaks quarantine rules they should be punished severely ? That is a pandora's box you don't want to open. So as we say " Embrace the Suck ". | |||
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" And once again what is the solutions you bitch and gripe about what can the "Government" can do for you. Yet people still going against the rules. Welcome to democracy it is fallible but is set into place for the Freedom you are enjoying. Take personal responsibility not "government" responsibility. Your life is your own. Guess a Communist state better suits your needs if you think otherwise. And if we're doing absolutely everything we personally can? Then what? Then your doing what is necessary in your own personal life. Cheers. And I'm not allowed to care about my community, my friends, the country I call my home, to wish things were better? Or is love of country communist too? Ok so what needs to be changed ? Your not going to mitigate it your not going to stop it unless everyone vaccinated. What can the government do to control it without vaccinating everyone ? You want total military lockdown ? If someone breaks curfew then what if someone breaks quarantine rules they should be punished severely ? That is a pandora's box you don't want to open. So as we say " Embrace the Suck "." Masks in schools - in classrooms too Support for self isolation to a liveable standard so people get tested Redo test and trace which has been a dismal failure Public education and rebuild trust Close the borders - approval in or out, compulsory hotel quarantine Clearer and stricter definition of essential work Greater checkups on health and safety to reduce spread in workplaces | |||
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" And once again what is the solutions you bitch and gripe about what can the "Government" can do for you. Yet people still going against the rules. Welcome to democracy it is fallible but is set into place for the Freedom you are enjoying. Take personal responsibility not "government" responsibility. Your life is your own. Guess a Communist state better suits your needs if you think otherwise. And if we're doing absolutely everything we personally can? Then what? Then your doing what is necessary in your own personal life. Cheers. And I'm not allowed to care about my community, my friends, the country I call my home, to wish things were better? Or is love of country communist too? Ok so what needs to be changed ? Your not going to mitigate it your not going to stop it unless everyone vaccinated. What can the government do to control it without vaccinating everyone ? You want total military lockdown ? If someone breaks curfew then what if someone breaks quarantine rules they should be punished severely ? That is a pandora's box you don't want to open. So as we say " Embrace the Suck ". Masks in schools - in classrooms too Support for self isolation to a liveable standard so people get tested Redo test and trace which has been a dismal failure Public education and rebuild trust Close the borders - approval in or out, compulsory hotel quarantine Clearer and stricter definition of essential work Greater checkups on health and safety to reduce spread in workplaces" 1. Why have masks in schools when they can remotely teach. 2.what is testing going to prove when it's is already running rampant. It's just a statistic. 3. Liveable standard for how long ? Government runs off taxes. 4.contact tracing is a failure people do not want to involve loved ones in a debacle. 5. Public trust with whom with education. Everyone is aware of the situation it is not going away till everyone is vaccinated or herd immunity. 6.Closeing borders to whom uk citizens ? You saying they can't go home ? 7.Your NHS is hurting now and you want them to preform welfare checks on every business that is deemed essential. Tax payer money eventually that money dries up then what ? Recession wars more poverty. Got to get the money from somewhere. | |||
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" And once again what is the solutions you bitch and gripe about what can the "Government" can do for you. Yet people still going against the rules. Welcome to democracy it is fallible but is set into place for the Freedom you are enjoying. Take personal responsibility not "government" responsibility. Your life is your own. Guess a Communist state better suits your needs if you think otherwise. And if we're doing absolutely everything we personally can? Then what? Then your doing what is necessary in your own personal life. Cheers. And I'm not allowed to care about my community, my friends, the country I call my home, to wish things were better? Or is love of country communist too? Ok so what needs to be changed ? Your not going to mitigate it your not going to stop it unless everyone vaccinated. What can the government do to control it without vaccinating everyone ? You want total military lockdown ? If someone breaks curfew then what if someone breaks quarantine rules they should be punished severely ? That is a pandora's box you don't want to open. So as we say " Embrace the Suck ". Masks in schools - in classrooms too Support for self isolation to a liveable standard so people get tested Redo test and trace which has been a dismal failure Public education and rebuild trust Close the borders - approval in or out, compulsory hotel quarantine Clearer and stricter definition of essential work Greater checkups on health and safety to reduce spread in workplaces 1. Why have masks in schools when they can remotely teach. 2.what is testing going to prove when it's is already running rampant. It's just a statistic. 3. Liveable standard for how long ? Government runs off taxes. 4.contact tracing is a failure people do not want to involve loved ones in a debacle. 5. Public trust with whom with education. Everyone is aware of the situation it is not going away till everyone is vaccinated or herd immunity. 6.Closeing borders to whom uk citizens ? You saying they can't go home ? 7.Your NHS is hurting now and you want them to preform welfare checks on every business that is deemed essential. Tax payer money eventually that money dries up then what ? Recession wars more poverty. Got to get the money from somewhere." I'm sorry I assumed you had an idea of the situation in the UK... These are tangible changes the government could make which would probably *save* money. I know the situation is bad. I'm doing all I can. My personal responsibility is fulfilled. The government can do a lot more. I care about my community. I want better for them. I'm politically engaged. Sorry, not sorry. | |||
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" And once again what is the solutions you bitch and gripe about what can the "Government" can do for you. Yet people still going against the rules. Welcome to democracy it is fallible but is set into place for the Freedom you are enjoying. Take personal responsibility not "government" responsibility. Your life is your own. Guess a Communist state better suits your needs if you think otherwise. And if we're doing absolutely everything we personally can? Then what? Then your doing what is necessary in your own personal life. Cheers. And I'm not allowed to care about my community, my friends, the country I call my home, to wish things were better? Or is love of country communist too? Ok so what needs to be changed ? Your not going to mitigate it your not going to stop it unless everyone vaccinated. What can the government do to control it without vaccinating everyone ? You want total military lockdown ? If someone breaks curfew then what if someone breaks quarantine rules they should be punished severely ? That is a pandora's box you don't want to open. So as we say " Embrace the Suck ". Masks in schools - in classrooms too Support for self isolation to a liveable standard so people get tested Redo test and trace which has been a dismal failure Public education and rebuild trust Close the borders - approval in or out, compulsory hotel quarantine Clearer and stricter definition of essential work Greater checkups on health and safety to reduce spread in workplaces 1. Why have masks in schools when they can remotely teach. 2.what is testing going to prove when it's is already running rampant. It's just a statistic. 3. Liveable standard for how long ? Government runs off taxes. 4.contact tracing is a failure people do not want to involve loved ones in a debacle. 5. Public trust with whom with education. Everyone is aware of the situation it is not going away till everyone is vaccinated or herd immunity. 6.Closeing borders to whom uk citizens ? You saying they can't go home ? 7.Your NHS is hurting now and you want them to preform welfare checks on every business that is deemed essential. Tax payer money eventually that money dries up then what ? Recession wars more poverty. Got to get the money from somewhere. I'm sorry I assumed you had an idea of the situation in the UK... These are tangible changes the government could make which would probably *save* money. I know the situation is bad. I'm doing all I can. My personal responsibility is fulfilled. The government can do a lot more. I care about my community. I want better for them. I'm politically engaged. Sorry, not sorry." Well love you doing the best you can. What more can you ask. | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378 The ONS have released figures that up to January 15th 2021 there were 104,000 deaths in the UK from Covid. By age 85+ = 41.9% 75 - 84 = 32.6% 65 - 74 = 15.2% 45 - 64 = 9.3% 15 - 44 = 1% 1 - 14 = 1% Under 1 =1%" I think you’ll find that’s WITH covid and not OF covid, and there’s always a little note at the bottom of the BBC figures, something like “deaths within 28 days of a positive test” | |||
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"Horrifying. Utterly horrifying. And so much of it was preventable. This. We locked down too late, not once, not twice, but three times. Anyone can make a mistake once by ignoring worldwide evidence and domestic scientists, but to do so three times is a special kind of stupid. "
Think every one could see that the Xmas lockdown was to late. The promise of Xmas was the first mistake then not braking it sooner was silly. | |||
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" No its not. That's just silly. Lets start with the size of the country , the population and the population density? Lets then look at the variant of the virus itself. Then let's look at the demography of the population. The average age and the conorbidities. Then let's look at the generally more supportive NZ media and compare it with the division fomented by our shower. Then look at the adherence of the population to the restrictions. Now once you get past that, look at the leadership and governance. Yes jacinda has seemed to make much better decisions. She seems to be very impressive in many ways. And Boris and team have made some shockers. And he has been mostly very poor with moments of good. But it simply isn't factually correct to lay all of this at any government's door. They can only govern if the people choose to let them. How many lives would have been saved if, last March or April, the government had said "no travel except for approved reasons. No holidays. Citizens can return and quarantine. I'm sorry you're upset but tough shit"? Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing
If only they planned for such an event?
With the best will in the world nobody planned for this. Maybe the Chinese given how swiftly they responded. Youd hope we will all learn as I don't believe this will be the last of these....
Erm, yes they did plan for this. They had previously done an exercise specifically to test the response of the country to a pandemic. The report showed that their actions would lead to the deaths of thousands, and that they needed to learn lessons and formulate better plans. What did they do? The flushed the report down the kharzi and said "fuck that, looks like hard work, bugger it there'll never be a pandemic".
Then when they had three months from the first reports from China, then actual telly coverage of what was happening in italy, to the virus reaching these shores, what did the government do?
Did they say, we did an exercise about that, better dust it off and see what the report said? Did they buggery. They had post brexit parties. Boris went on holiday. They held photo ops where they minimised the seriousness of it, where they encouraged people in bad behaviour. They waited, they shilly shallied, they refused to make decisions. They embezzeled money by diverting contracts for essential health supplies to their families and friends.
So yes they did plan for this. But instead of planning how to save lives and avoid bankrupting the country, they schemed how to personally benefit. They thought specifically about just themselves, and fuck the rest of us.
Applauds
And once again what is the solutions you bitch and gripe about what can the "Government" can do for you. Yet people still going against the rules. Welcome to democracy it is fallible but is set into place for the Freedom you are enjoying. Take personal responsibility not "government" responsibility. Your life is your own. Guess a Communist state better suits your needs if you think otherwise."Lols | |||
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"and on this day when we turn on our televisions to see the news of over 100000 people are dead, the government send Robert Jenwrick, the housing minister. He's not fairing too well against Morgan. Credit to Piers Morgan, always disliked him up until this pandemic, now, I think he's one of the few asking the questions we'd like answered. 66% of gmtv viewers think Boris should resign... " So you want who to replace him? With whatbSomeone who will give pithy sound bites on a TV entertainment show? I'm not a fan of Boris but please let's stop with the piers Morgan reverie... If he was that good he'd be elected pm. Morgan is adding no value to the situation he's just a provocateur. The govt have been pretty shit, but then so have a lot of the public. But kicking us while we are down is unhelpful. | |||
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"The government have had a totally undeserved free ride, using every known trick in the book, to excuse themselves from doing the 1 thing that is their key priority, to protect us." This is the key problem - everyone needs to protect themselves, not rely on the nanny state to do it for them. I've got a friend doing track & trace - she says that most of the time the people catching covid could have avoided it. | |||
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