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European kids
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"So our science advisers are wrong? What else are they wrong about?" I certainly didn't say that | |||
"Given that the disease is still running rampant and there is potentially a new strain just emerged.. probally best to tread carefully before putting thousands of kids back in the same environment. " Have to agree already been few different strains who’s to say a new strain may affect young kids. Not easy to make kids keep to two meters apart. | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right? "Well I hate to break it to you,but almost every school is still open in some capacity some at greatly reduced numbers but many with upto 50% full. | |||
"I imagine that all governments will be examining the unique conditions in their own countries, given that the effect has not been uniform. They'll also be addressing mitigation policies. The same science can well come up with different solutions in different environments " | |||
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"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I hate to break it to you,but almost every school is still open in some capacity some at greatly reduced numbers but many with upto 50% full.
"But full capacity in France and Germany, who are way behind the vaccine rate compared to the UK So is anyone going to attempt to answer or question, or just .... Bury their heads in the sand | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I hate to break it to you,but almost every school is still open in some capacity some at greatly reduced numbers but many with upto 50% full.
But full capacity in France and Germany, who are way behind the vaccine rate compared to the UK
So is anyone going to attempt to answer or question, or just .... Bury their heads in the sand"Different situations. Different mitigation methods. Therefore different justification. Even with the same science. You're most welcome  | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I hate to break it to you,but almost every school is still open in some capacity some at greatly reduced numbers but many with upto 50% full.
But full capacity in France and Germany, who are way behind the vaccine rate compared to the UK
So is anyone going to attempt to answer or question, or just .... Bury their heads in the sand
Different situations. Different mitigation methods.
Therefore different justification. Even with the same science.
You're most welcome "Prove your point | |||
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"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I hate to break it to you,but almost every school is still open in some capacity some at greatly reduced numbers but many with upto 50% full.
But full capacity in France and Germany, who are way behind the vaccine rate compared to the UK
So is anyone going to attempt to answer or question, or just .... Bury their heads in the sand"Arent their death rates lower than ours? | |||
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"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I hate to break it to you,but almost every school is still open in some capacity some at greatly reduced numbers but many with upto 50% full.
But full capacity in France and Germany, who are way behind the vaccine rate compared to the UK
So is anyone going to attempt to answer or question, or just .... Bury their heads in the sand
Different situations. Different mitigation methods.
Therefore different justification. Even with the same science.
You're most welcome
Prove your point "Prove what? That different results come from different situations? That's self evident. | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I hate to break it to you,but almost every school is still open in some capacity some at greatly reduced numbers but many with upto 50% full.
But full capacity in France and Germany, who are way behind the vaccine rate compared to the UK
So is anyone going to attempt to answer or question, or just .... Bury their heads in the sand
Different situations. Different mitigation methods.
Therefore different justification. Even with the same science.
You're most welcome
Prove your point
Prove what? That different results come from different situations?
That's self evident."In that case no ... won't bother interacting in future as it gets boring quite fast, and feel free to start your own threads | |||
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"Would be interesting to see what their death and transmission rates look like compared to ours, also if they closed schools over the first lockdown this time last year (almost)" Here's part of it Deaths Today Germany 990 France 485 | |||
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"Would be interesting to see what their death and transmission rates look like compared to ours, also if they closed schools over the first lockdown this time last year (almost) Here's part of it Deaths Today Germany 990 France 485" Lower rates than the UK per capita. Unsurprising. | |||
"Would be interesting to see what their death and transmission rates look like compared to ours, also if they closed schools over the first lockdown this time last year (almost) Here's part of it Deaths Today Germany 990 France 485 Lower rates than the UK per capita. Unsurprising." Per capita the only place worse then us in Europe is Belgium...but today's death toll there is only 32. | |||
"Would be interesting to see what their death and transmission rates look like compared to ours, also if they closed schools over the first lockdown this time last year (almost) Here's part of it Deaths Today Germany 990 France 485 Lower rates than the UK per capita. Unsurprising. Per capita the only place worse then us in Europe is Belgium...but today's death toll there is only 32." Yes. But, although apparently insufficiently entertaining, that would potentially be one factor playing into the opening of German and French schools. | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right? "How can you possibly compare German scientific advice to ours? | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right? "Well we've been dubbed "plague island", usually the scientists are only right if it's politically expedient | |||
"Oh I'm sorry logical inference is insufficiently entertaining for you. This global pandemic pile of bodies business sure is a barrel of laughs." I shouldn’t laugh... but I am  | |||
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"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right? "There, proper medical masks are compulsory in the classrooms. When families don't or can't afford them, the councils give them free to kids and don't chase up parents to 50p back. Here, they were banned in the classroom. It is not helping when kids are asymptomatic with high viral load, acting as a reservoir of the infections. | |||
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"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right? "Well I guess our government scientists are basing their theories on the UK, not France or Germany, Lots of variables such as infection rates etc, according to some people we can't compare death rates, how can we compare other rates and what gets done to combat them between countries. If we were really interested in learning something we might find useful, then we could ask ourselves what and why we are doing things differently to somewhere like New Zealand... | |||
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"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I hate to break it to you,but almost every school is still open in some capacity some at greatly reduced numbers but many with upto 50% full.
But full capacity in France and Germany, who are way behind the vaccine rate compared to the UK
So is anyone going to attempt to answer or question, or just .... Bury their heads in the sand
Different situations. Different mitigation methods.
Therefore different justification. Even with the same science.
You're most welcome
Prove your point
Prove what? That different results come from different situations?
That's self evident.
In that case no ... won't bother interacting in future as it gets boring quite fast, and feel free to start your own threads "Seems like you're not interested in what other people have to say and you already know the answer to you own question. | |||
"So our science advisers are wrong? What else are they wrong about? I certainly didn't say that" Funny how something that's clearly written, and quite obvious, can be completely (and wilfully) twisted to mean something completely different. E | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I hate to break it to you,but almost every school is still open in some capacity some at greatly reduced numbers but many with upto 50% full.
"I agree, cycled past my local primary last week it was rammed with kids out in the playground on lunch break, I have friends who can’t cope at home as working so have sent their kids in and they are not key workers. | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I hate to break it to you,but almost every school is still open in some capacity some at greatly reduced numbers but many with upto 50% full.
But full capacity in France and Germany, who are way behind the vaccine rate compared to the UK
So is anyone going to attempt to answer or question, or just .... Bury their heads in the sand
Different situations. Different mitigation methods.
Therefore different justification. Even with the same science.
You're most welcome
Prove your point
Prove what? That different results come from different situations?
That's self evident.
In that case no ... won't bother interacting in future as it gets boring quite fast, and feel free to start your own threads
Seems like you're not interested in what other people have to say and you already know the answer to you own question."It would seem to be a poor reason to begin a conversation in a forum. | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right? "Sorry to burst your bubble but German schools are not open and won't be for at least a couple more weeks, more likely longer. | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I guess our government scientists are basing their theories on the UK, not France or Germany, Lots of variables such as infection rates etc, according to some people we can't compare death rates, how can we compare other rates and what gets done to combat them between countries.
If we were really interested in learning something we might find useful, then we could ask ourselves what and why we are doing things differently to somewhere like New Zealand... "That's pointless as Bern said many times. More people in Lancashire than New Zealand | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I guess our government scientists are basing their theories on the UK, not France or Germany, Lots of variables such as infection rates etc, according to some people we can't compare death rates, how can we compare other rates and what gets done to combat them between countries.
If we were really interested in learning something we might find useful, then we could ask ourselves what and why we are doing things differently to somewhere like New Zealand...
That's pointless as Bern said many times. More people in Lancashire than New Zealand "So? Are we not an island? Greater population in Taiwan and they've had eight deaths. Not today. Total. Let's pretend we're a first world sovereign nation and can be treated like adults | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I hate to break it to you,but almost every school is still open in some capacity some at greatly reduced numbers but many with upto 50% full.
But full capacity in France and Germany, who are way behind the vaccine rate compared to the UK
So is anyone going to attempt to answer or question, or just .... Bury their heads in the sand
Different situations. Different mitigation methods.
Therefore different justification. Even with the same science.
You're most welcome
Prove your point
Prove what? That different results come from different situations?
That's self evident.
In that case no ... won't bother interacting in future as it gets boring quite fast, and feel free to start your own threads
Seems like you're not interested in what other people have to say and you already know the answer to you own question.
It would seem to be a poor reason to begin a conversation in a forum. "True to form though. 
E | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I guess our government scientists are basing their theories on the UK, not France or Germany, Lots of variables such as infection rates etc, according to some people we can't compare death rates, how can we compare other rates and what gets done to combat them between countries.
If we were really interested in learning something we might find useful, then we could ask ourselves what and why we are doing things differently to somewhere like New Zealand...
That's pointless as Bern said many times. More people in Lancashire than New Zealand "Look at the figures of Japan compared to ours. | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I guess our government scientists are basing their theories on the UK, not France or Germany, Lots of variables such as infection rates etc, according to some people we can't compare death rates, how can we compare other rates and what gets done to combat them between countries.
If we were really interested in learning something we might find useful, then we could ask ourselves what and why we are doing things differently to somewhere like New Zealand...
That's pointless as Bern said many times. More people in Lancashire than New Zealand
Look at the figures of Japan compared to ours."Completely different culture in so many ways - to name a few, follow the rules, basic respect for others and healthier diet | |||
"Absolute no brainier this, get the schools open. Ridiculous it’s even being discussed. Crazy bonkers. " And last time the r number shot up at a ridiculous rate. For the sake of a few more weeks keep them closed. Absolute madness to open them. Can't believe its even being discussed. Crazy bonkers. | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I guess our government scientists are basing their theories on the UK, not France or Germany, Lots of variables such as infection rates etc, according to some people we can't compare death rates, how can we compare other rates and what gets done to combat them between countries.
If we were really interested in learning something we might find useful, then we could ask ourselves what and why we are doing things differently to somewhere like New Zealand...
That's pointless as Bern said many times. More people in Lancashire than New Zealand
So?
Are we not an island?
Greater population in Taiwan and they've had eight deaths. Not today. Total.
Let's pretend we're a first world sovereign nation and can be treated like adults "Yes, obviously we are an island but absolutely cannot compare, Population density or is that not a major factor??? Now you're stretching it. Taiwan. Haha dear me | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I guess our government scientists are basing their theories on the UK, not France or Germany, Lots of variables such as infection rates etc, according to some people we can't compare death rates, how can we compare other rates and what gets done to combat them between countries.
If we were really interested in learning something we might find useful, then we could ask ourselves what and why we are doing things differently to somewhere like New Zealand...
That's pointless as Bern said many times. More people in Lancashire than New Zealand
Look at the figures of Japan compared to ours."Actually, if you're going to maje comparisons, why not compare cities within miles of Wuhan? How many deaths in Beijing or other Eastern cities? | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I guess our government scientists are basing their theories on the UK, not France or Germany, Lots of variables such as infection rates etc, according to some people we can't compare death rates, how can we compare other rates and what gets done to combat them between countries.
If we were really interested in learning something we might find useful, then we could ask ourselves what and why we are doing things differently to somewhere like New Zealand... "I might have to punch the next person who thinks the UK can be compared to New Zealand when it comes to controlling Covid  | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I guess our government scientists are basing their theories on the UK, not France or Germany, Lots of variables such as infection rates etc, according to some people we can't compare death rates, how can we compare other rates and what gets done to combat them between countries.
If we were really interested in learning something we might find useful, then we could ask ourselves what and why we are doing things differently to somewhere like New Zealand...
That's pointless as Bern said many times. More people in Lancashire than New Zealand
Look at the figures of Japan compared to ours."There is limited value in comparing nations figures, the methodology in each country’s figures and testing processes is vastly different | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I guess our government scientists are basing their theories on the UK, not France or Germany, Lots of variables such as infection rates etc, according to some people we can't compare death rates, how can we compare other rates and what gets done to combat them between countries.
If we were really interested in learning something we might find useful, then we could ask ourselves what and why we are doing things differently to somewhere like New Zealand...
That's pointless as Bern said many times. More people in Lancashire than New Zealand
Look at the figures of Japan compared to ours.
There is limited value in comparing nations figures, the methodology in each country’s figures and testing processes is vastly different "The UK claims it's world beating repeatedly. And yet when people try to make comparisons we're told it's unreasonable. Why? Same science, same sovereignty. Island advantage. Advance warning compared to some countries Or is "world beating" just a lullaby or lie to tell ourselves? I like holding adults to standards so we can improve. | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right? "Kids in Berlin are not at school | |||
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"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I hate to break it to you,but almost every school is still open in some capacity some at greatly reduced numbers but many with upto 50% full.
But full capacity in France and Germany, who are way behind the vaccine rate compared to the UK
So is anyone going to attempt to answer or question, or just .... Bury their heads in the sand"I’ve answered .. see above | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I hate to break it to you,but almost every school is still open in some capacity some at greatly reduced numbers but many with upto 50% full.
But full capacity in France and Germany, who are way behind the vaccine rate compared to the UK
So is anyone going to attempt to answer or question, or just .... Bury their heads in the sand"One issue, we are not in Germany or France. Maybe the EU are advising schools in those countries, differently to the UK. | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right? "Each country has very different adherence, social and demographic issues. Science for one may not necessarily be the right science for another. | |||
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"We have the highest number of kids per class than any European county we also operate in the smallest classrooms. Most European schools ‘full capacity’ is our 50-60% which is the level most schools are open to now anyway. " Bullshit, Irish government also keep saying that, where did u get that info? Mostly everywhere is around 20-30 kids in the class and schools are open in most countries | |||
"We have the highest number of kids per class than any European county we also operate in the smallest classrooms. Most European schools ‘full capacity’ is our 50-60% which is the level most schools are open to now anyway. Bullshit, Irish government also keep saying that, where did u get that info? Mostly everywhere is around 20-30 kids in the class and schools are open in most countries " Stastia education data ... 32 kids in my class. 34 in the year above ... KS1 is capped at 30 KS2 no upper limit. Year before last I had 34 The United Kingdom had an average of 26 students per class in 2018, the highest in Europe in that year. Europe's largest country, Germany had an average class size of 21 students, while Luxembourg had an average of just 15.9 students per class. | |||
"Genuine question ~ The government hope to have the top 4 priority groups vaccinated by mid February and then move on down the list. They can then think about opening schools up at some point in March. What difference does it make that vunerable and older people have had the vaccine to whether school's open again or not? I think I'm missing something here, or just being a bit thick! "Just means less pressure on NHS as the ones that are most likely to need hospitalisation will be vaccinated. So virus will be around just kill less people | |||
"We have the highest number of kids per class than any European county we also operate in the smallest classrooms. Most European schools ‘full capacity’ is our 50-60% which is the level most schools are open to now anyway. Bullshit, Irish government also keep saying that, where did u get that info? Mostly everywhere is around 20-30 kids in the class and schools are open in most countries " I recently surveyed 500 primary school teachers in the UK - 20% had less than 30 (none less that 28) 90% had 30-35 and 10% had more than 35 | |||
"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/05/up-to-100-uk-children-a-week-hospitalised-with-rare-post-covid-disease " It has been reported that there have been big outbreaks in primary schools in Lombardia and Israel at the moment too, no links for that yet | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I hate to break it to you,but almost every school is still open in some capacity some at greatly reduced numbers but many with upto 50% full.
But full capacity in France and Germany, who are way behind the vaccine rate compared to the UK
So is anyone going to attempt to answer or question, or just .... Bury their heads in the sand
One issue, we are not in Germany or France. Maybe the EU are advising schools in those countries, differently to the UK."Advice? Possibly. However lockdown and school closures are down to individual member states. Reading some of the comments it seems that some posters still believe the original post. It is NOT correct. I will say it one more time. German schools are CLOSED! And will be for a while yet. | |||
"Genuine question ~ The government hope to have the top 4 priority groups vaccinated by mid February and then move on down the list. They can then think about opening schools up at some point in March. What difference does it make that vunerable and older people have had the vaccine to whether school's open again or not? I think I'm missing something here, or just being a bit thick!
Just means less pressure on NHS as the ones that are most likely to need hospitalisation will be vaccinated. So virus will be around just kill less people "Thanks, I get that but Boris has said that when the vunerable are vaccinated that's when he can consider opening schools up. | |||
"Genuine question ~ The government hope to have the top 4 priority groups vaccinated by mid February and then move on down the list. They can then think about opening schools up at some point in March. What difference does it make that vunerable and older people have had the vaccine to whether school's open again or not? I think I'm missing something here, or just being a bit thick!
Just means less pressure on NHS as the ones that are most likely to need hospitalisation will be vaccinated. So virus will be around just kill less people
Thanks, I get that but Boris has said that when the vunerable are vaccinated that's when he can consider opening schools up."Because children while not usually seriously ill are plague rats and vectors of transmission and would bring the virus home to vulnerable. Once vulnerable are protected then there is less risk of hospitals being overwhelmed. | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I guess our government scientists are basing their theories on the UK, not France or Germany, Lots of variables such as infection rates etc, according to some people we can't compare death rates, how can we compare other rates and what gets done to combat them between countries.
If we were really interested in learning something we might find useful, then we could ask ourselves what and why we are doing things differently to somewhere like New Zealand...
I might have to punch the next person who thinks the UK can be compared to New Zealand when it comes to controlling Covid "Absolutely | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I guess our government scientists are basing their theories on the UK, not France or Germany, Lots of variables such as infection rates etc, according to some people we can't compare death rates, how can we compare other rates and what gets done to combat them between countries.
If we were really interested in learning something we might find useful, then we could ask ourselves what and why we are doing things differently to somewhere like New Zealand...
That's pointless as Bern said many times. More people in Lancashire than New Zealand
Look at the figures of Japan compared to ours.
There is limited value in comparing nations figures, the methodology in each country’s figures and testing processes is vastly different
The UK claims it's world beating repeatedly. And yet when people try to make comparisons we're told it's unreasonable. Why?
Same science, same sovereignty. Island advantage. Advance warning compared to some countries
Or is "world beating" just a lullaby or lie to tell ourselves?
I like holding adults to standards so we can improve."Ok, other than Israel, name countries that are beating our vaccination programme | |||
"Given that the disease is still running rampant and there is potentially a new strain just emerged.. probally best to tread carefully before putting thousands of kids back in the same environment. Have to agree already been few different strains who’s to say a new strain may affect young kids. Not easy to make kids keep to two meters apart. " Playing devils advocate here. But follow this train of thought forward and do we never send children back in to formal education on the off chance that there might be a new strain of virus or illness that will effect children more. And there for forever damage our children’s future by having sub standard home education and no formal qualifications ( I realise no all home educated children will receive sub standard education. But believe a significant amount will) | |||
"Given that the disease is still running rampant and there is potentially a new strain just emerged.. probally best to tread carefully before putting thousands of kids back in the same environment. Have to agree already been few different strains who’s to say a new strain may affect young kids. Not easy to make kids keep to two meters apart. Playing devils advocate here. But follow this train of thought forward and do we never send children back in to formal education on the off chance that there might be a new strain of virus or illness that will effect children more. And there for forever damage our children’s future by having sub standard home education and no formal qualifications ( I realise no all home educated children will receive sub standard education. But believe a significant amount will) " It doesn’t bear thinking about, enough treating them like lepers in the forum as it is but then saying no sorry you can’t go to school, get an education, socialise with your friends because there is no vaccine for you but the adults can be out and about, live a normal life. School isn’t just text book learning it is social interaction and how to be around other people which you will not learn from a computer screen | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I guess our government scientists are basing their theories on the UK, not France or Germany, Lots of variables such as infection rates etc, according to some people we can't compare death rates, how can we compare other rates and what gets done to combat them between countries.
If we were really interested in learning something we might find useful, then we could ask ourselves what and why we are doing things differently to somewhere like New Zealand...
That's pointless as Bern said many times. More people in Lancashire than New Zealand
Look at the figures of Japan compared to ours.
There is limited value in comparing nations figures, the methodology in each country’s figures and testing processes is vastly different
The UK claims it's world beating repeatedly. And yet when people try to make comparisons we're told it's unreasonable. Why?
Same science, same sovereignty. Island advantage. Advance warning compared to some countries
Or is "world beating" just a lullaby or lie to tell ourselves?
I like holding adults to standards so we can improve.
Ok, other than Israel, name countries that are beating our vaccination programme "First tell me why we can't ever compare when it's bad. Because this is exactly my point. We're amazing when it suits us but it's not fair when it doesn't. This is juvenile. | |||
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"Our world in data. The league table of *fully* vaccinated by percentage of population (because no I do not accept the government bait and switch) is as follows. Israel, UAE, Denmark, Italy, Slovenia, Iceland, Spain, Malta, Estonia, Poland, Germany, Romania, UK. The UK is thirteenth, or twelfth if we exclude Israel. You're welcome." Hang on a minute..boris said we were beating all Europe? | |||
"Our world in data. The league table of *fully* vaccinated by percentage of population (because no I do not accept the government bait and switch) is as follows. Israel, UAE, Denmark, Italy, Slovenia, Iceland, Spain, Malta, Estonia, Poland, Germany, Romania, UK. The UK is thirteenth, or twelfth if we exclude Israel. You're welcome. Hang on a minute..boris said we were beating all Europe?" Only if we define things conveniently to suit us. It's a bit "I win because of the rules I made up to ensure I win". Juvenile. | |||
"Our world in data. The league table of *fully* vaccinated by percentage of population (because no I do not accept the government bait and switch) is as follows. Israel, UAE, Denmark, Italy, Slovenia, Iceland, Spain, Malta, Estonia, Poland, Germany, Romania, UK. The UK is thirteenth, or twelfth if we exclude Israel. You're welcome. Hang on a minute..boris said we were beating all Europe? Only if we define things conveniently to suit us. It's a bit "I win because of the rules I made up to ensure I win". Juvenile." Even when we're the best in the world, we're not really, when we play by their rules... The vaccines are a massive bonus, but lets not kid ourselves there was any skill or judgement involved in the decision making process to secure them. They basically threw 100's of millions at any pharmaceutical company of any repute, thankfully not serco then, in the hope that some produced a working vaccine, fortunately the bet paid off in quite a good way, 5 of 7 vaccines so far have show a range of results from extremely useful and better. We'd be looking at a billion or so down the drain if the companies hadn't been so successful. A gamble that paid off doesn't turn the last year into anything other than the shit show it was. | |||
"Our world in data. The league table of *fully* vaccinated by percentage of population (because no I do not accept the government bait and switch) is as follows. Israel, UAE, Denmark, Italy, Slovenia, Iceland, Spain, Malta, Estonia, Poland, Germany, Romania, UK. The UK is thirteenth, or twelfth if we exclude Israel. You're welcome. Hang on a minute..boris said we were beating all Europe? Only if we define things conveniently to suit us. It's a bit "I win because of the rules I made up to ensure I win". Juvenile. Even when we're the best in the world, we're not really, when we play by their rules... The vaccines are a massive bonus, but lets not kid ourselves there was any skill or judgement involved in the decision making process to secure them. They basically threw 100's of millions at any pharmaceutical company of any repute, thankfully not serco then, in the hope that some produced a working vaccine, fortunately the bet paid off in quite a good way, 5 of 7 vaccines so far have show a range of results from extremely useful and better. We'd be looking at a billion or so down the drain if the companies hadn't been so successful. A gamble that paid off doesn't turn the last year into anything other than the shit show it was. " Agreed. And I don't want it to be this way. I elected to make the UK my home. I love this country. But we're not going to get better by saying "we're world beating because we say so, no comparisons allowed, neener neener world beating". We get better by acknowledging we could have done better and learning from our mistakes. | |||
"Our world in data. The league table of *fully* vaccinated by percentage of population (because no I do not accept the government bait and switch) is as follows. Israel, UAE, Denmark, Italy, Slovenia, Iceland, Spain, Malta, Estonia, Poland, Germany, Romania, UK. The UK is thirteenth, or twelfth if we exclude Israel. You're welcome. Hang on a minute..boris said we were beating all Europe? Only if we define things conveniently to suit us. It's a bit "I win because of the rules I made up to ensure I win". Juvenile. Even when we're the best in the world, we're not really, when we play by their rules... The vaccines are a massive bonus, but lets not kid ourselves there was any skill or judgement involved in the decision making process to secure them. They basically threw 100's of millions at any pharmaceutical company of any repute, thankfully not serco then, in the hope that some produced a working vaccine, fortunately the bet paid off in quite a good way, 5 of 7 vaccines so far have show a range of results from extremely useful and better. We'd be looking at a billion or so down the drain if the companies hadn't been so successful. A gamble that paid off doesn't turn the last year into anything other than the shit show it was. Agreed. And I don't want it to be this way. I elected to make the UK my home. I love this country. But we're not going to get better by saying "we're world beating because we say so, no comparisons allowed, neener neener world beating". We get better by acknowledging we could have done better and learning from our mistakes." Absolutely. Learning and improving is the only way that we will ever get through this crisis. Or we can just keep locking down too late, opening up too soon, using children as a vector to ensure it spreads wider, and readily importing new strains from abroad every day. Do you want to still be doing the lockdown/openup dance next year, and the year after, and the year after? I don't. | |||
| |||
"Our world in data. The league table of *fully* vaccinated by percentage of population (because no I do not accept the government bait and switch) is as follows. Israel, UAE, Denmark, Italy, Slovenia, Iceland, Spain, Malta, Estonia, Poland, Germany, Romania, UK. The UK is thirteenth, or twelfth if we exclude Israel. You're welcome." I'd love to see your source for that. Even if true (which I doubt) using the word "fully" at this point in the vaccination roll out is (at least) disingenuous and more than misleading. | |||
"Our world in data. The league table of *fully* vaccinated by percentage of population (because no I do not accept the government bait and switch) is as follows. Israel, UAE, Denmark, Italy, Slovenia, Iceland, Spain, Malta, Estonia, Poland, Germany, Romania, UK. The UK is thirteenth, or twelfth if we exclude Israel. You're welcome. I'd love to see your source for that. Even if true (which I doubt) using the word "fully" at this point in the vaccination roll out is (at least) disingenuous and more than misleading. " Why do you doubt it? Why is it misleading? | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I guess our government scientists are basing their theories on the UK, not France or Germany, Lots of variables such as infection rates etc, according to some people we can't compare death rates, how can we compare other rates and what gets done to combat them between countries.
If we were really interested in learning something we might find useful, then we could ask ourselves what and why we are doing things differently to somewhere like New Zealand...
That's pointless as Bern said many times. More people in Lancashire than New Zealand
Look at the figures of Japan compared to ours.
There is limited value in comparing nations figures, the methodology in each country’s figures and testing processes is vastly different
The UK claims it's world beating repeatedly. And yet when people try to make comparisons we're told it's unreasonable. Why?
Same science, same sovereignty. Island advantage. Advance warning compared to some countries
Or is "world beating" just a lullaby or lie to tell ourselves?
I like holding adults to standards so we can improve.
Ok, other than Israel, name countries that are beating our vaccination programme
First tell me why we can't ever compare when it's bad.
Because this is exactly my point.
We're amazing when it suits us but it's not fair when it doesn't. This is juvenile."Bless | |||
"Our world in data. The league table of *fully* vaccinated by percentage of population (because no I do not accept the government bait and switch) is as follows. Israel, UAE, Denmark, Italy, Slovenia, Iceland, Spain, Malta, Estonia, Poland, Germany, Romania, UK. The UK is thirteenth, or twelfth if we exclude Israel. You're welcome. I'd love to see your source for that. Even if true (which I doubt) using the word "fully" at this point in the vaccination roll out is (at least) disingenuous and more than misleading. " I don't know why it's misleading. A full course is required. Before that it's a partial treatment which no medical authority has authorised. I don't know if I'm allowed to link it. Our World in Data, under "What share of the population has been fully vaccinated against Covid-19?" | |||
"Our world in data. The league table of *fully* vaccinated by percentage of population (because no I do not accept the government bait and switch) is as follows. Israel, UAE, Denmark, Italy, Slovenia, Iceland, Spain, Malta, Estonia, Poland, Germany, Romania, UK. The UK is thirteenth, or twelfth if we exclude Israel. You're welcome." Can you give the link to that data? | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I guess our government scientists are basing their theories on the UK, not France or Germany, Lots of variables such as infection rates etc, according to some people we can't compare death rates, how can we compare other rates and what gets done to combat them between countries.
If we were really interested in learning something we might find useful, then we could ask ourselves what and why we are doing things differently to somewhere like New Zealand...
That's pointless as Bern said many times. More people in Lancashire than New Zealand
Look at the figures of Japan compared to ours.
There is limited value in comparing nations figures, the methodology in each country’s figures and testing processes is vastly different
The UK claims it's world beating repeatedly. And yet when people try to make comparisons we're told it's unreasonable. Why?
Same science, same sovereignty. Island advantage. Advance warning compared to some countries
Or is "world beating" just a lullaby or lie to tell ourselves?
I like holding adults to standards so we can improve.
Ok, other than Israel, name countries that are beating our vaccination programme
First tell me why we can't ever compare when it's bad.
Because this is exactly my point.
We're amazing when it suits us but it's not fair when it doesn't. This is juvenile.
Bless"Ninth or tenth in Europe. World beating. Bless. So how about that world beating death rate, now I've come up with the data? | |||
"Our world in data. The league table of *fully* vaccinated by percentage of population (because no I do not accept the government bait and switch) is as follows. Israel, UAE, Denmark, Italy, Slovenia, Iceland, Spain, Malta, Estonia, Poland, Germany, Romania, UK. The UK is thirteenth, or twelfth if we exclude Israel. You're welcome. Can you give the link to that data? " I'm not sure if it's allowed, but I've named the site and the header above. | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I hate to break it to you,but almost every school is still open in some capacity some at greatly reduced numbers but many with upto 50% full.
But full capacity in France and Germany, who are way behind the vaccine rate compared to the UK
So is anyone going to attempt to answer or question, or just .... Bury their heads in the sand"It was answered very clearly already. You've just chosen to ignore it and carry on with your bias agenda. Which is a ridiculous conclusion to start with. | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I guess our government scientists are basing their theories on the UK, not France or Germany, Lots of variables such as infection rates etc, according to some people we can't compare death rates, how can we compare other rates and what gets done to combat them between countries.
If we were really interested in learning something we might find useful, then we could ask ourselves what and why we are doing things differently to somewhere like New Zealand...
That's pointless as Bern said many times. More people in Lancashire than New Zealand
Look at the figures of Japan compared to ours.
There is limited value in comparing nations figures, the methodology in each country’s figures and testing processes is vastly different
The UK claims it's world beating repeatedly. And yet when people try to make comparisons we're told it's unreasonable. Why?
Same science, same sovereignty. Island advantage. Advance warning compared to some countries
Or is "world beating" just a lullaby or lie to tell ourselves?
I like holding adults to standards so we can improve.
Ok, other than Israel, name countries that are beating our vaccination programme
First tell me why we can't ever compare when it's bad.
Because this is exactly my point.
We're amazing when it suits us but it's not fair when it doesn't. This is juvenile.
Bless
Ninth or tenth in Europe. World beating.
Bless.
So how about that world beating death rate, now I've come up with the data?"Which is better 10 vulnerable people with 2 doses or 1000 with 1 dose. | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I guess our government scientists are basing their theories on the UK, not France or Germany, Lots of variables such as infection rates etc, according to some people we can't compare death rates, how can we compare other rates and what gets done to combat them between countries.
If we were really interested in learning something we might find useful, then we could ask ourselves what and why we are doing things differently to somewhere like New Zealand...
That's pointless as Bern said many times. More people in Lancashire than New Zealand
Look at the figures of Japan compared to ours.
There is limited value in comparing nations figures, the methodology in each country’s figures and testing processes is vastly different
The UK claims it's world beating repeatedly. And yet when people try to make comparisons we're told it's unreasonable. Why?
Same science, same sovereignty. Island advantage. Advance warning compared to some countries
Or is "world beating" just a lullaby or lie to tell ourselves?
I like holding adults to standards so we can improve.
Ok, other than Israel, name countries that are beating our vaccination programme
First tell me why we can't ever compare when it's bad.
Because this is exactly my point.
We're amazing when it suits us but it's not fair when it doesn't. This is juvenile.
Bless
Ninth or tenth in Europe. World beating.
Bless.
So how about that world beating death rate, now I've come up with the data?
Which is better 10 vulnerable people with 2 doses or 1000 with 1 dose."Our full vaccination rate is 0.74%. | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I guess our government scientists are basing their theories on the UK, not France or Germany, Lots of variables such as infection rates etc, according to some people we can't compare death rates, how can we compare other rates and what gets done to combat them between countries.
If we were really interested in learning something we might find useful, then we could ask ourselves what and why we are doing things differently to somewhere like New Zealand...
That's pointless as Bern said many times. More people in Lancashire than New Zealand
Look at the figures of Japan compared to ours.
There is limited value in comparing nations figures, the methodology in each country’s figures and testing processes is vastly different
The UK claims it's world beating repeatedly. And yet when people try to make comparisons we're told it's unreasonable. Why?
Same science, same sovereignty. Island advantage. Advance warning compared to some countries
Or is "world beating" just a lullaby or lie to tell ourselves?
I like holding adults to standards so we can improve.
Ok, other than Israel, name countries that are beating our vaccination programme
First tell me why we can't ever compare when it's bad.
Because this is exactly my point.
We're amazing when it suits us but it's not fair when it doesn't. This is juvenile.
Bless
Ninth or tenth in Europe. World beating.
Bless.
So how about that world beating death rate, now I've come up with the data?
Which is better 10 vulnerable people with 2 doses or 1000 with 1 dose.
Our full vaccination rate is 0.74%. "That’s not what I asked. | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I guess our government scientists are basing their theories on the UK, not France or Germany, Lots of variables such as infection rates etc, according to some people we can't compare death rates, how can we compare other rates and what gets done to combat them between countries.
If we were really interested in learning something we might find useful, then we could ask ourselves what and why we are doing things differently to somewhere like New Zealand...
That's pointless as Bern said many times. More people in Lancashire than New Zealand
Look at the figures of Japan compared to ours.
There is limited value in comparing nations figures, the methodology in each country’s figures and testing processes is vastly different
The UK claims it's world beating repeatedly. And yet when people try to make comparisons we're told it's unreasonable. Why?
Same science, same sovereignty. Island advantage. Advance warning compared to some countries
Or is "world beating" just a lullaby or lie to tell ourselves?
I like holding adults to standards so we can improve.
Ok, other than Israel, name countries that are beating our vaccination programme
First tell me why we can't ever compare when it's bad.
Because this is exactly my point.
We're amazing when it suits us but it's not fair when it doesn't. This is juvenile.
Bless
Ninth or tenth in Europe. World beating.
Bless.
So how about that world beating death rate, now I've come up with the data?
Which is better 10 vulnerable people with 2 doses or 1000 with 1 dose.
Our full vaccination rate is 0.74%.
That’s not what I asked."I think the two should be balanced, which we are not doing. We are ramping up first jabs and claiming it's world beating. Ten million versus half a million. | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I guess our government scientists are basing their theories on the UK, not France or Germany, Lots of variables such as infection rates etc, according to some people we can't compare death rates, how can we compare other rates and what gets done to combat them between countries.
If we were really interested in learning something we might find useful, then we could ask ourselves what and why we are doing things differently to somewhere like New Zealand...
That's pointless as Bern said many times. More people in Lancashire than New Zealand
Look at the figures of Japan compared to ours.
There is limited value in comparing nations figures, the methodology in each country’s figures and testing processes is vastly different
The UK claims it's world beating repeatedly. And yet when people try to make comparisons we're told it's unreasonable. Why?
Same science, same sovereignty. Island advantage. Advance warning compared to some countries
Or is "world beating" just a lullaby or lie to tell ourselves?
I like holding adults to standards so we can improve.
Ok, other than Israel, name countries that are beating our vaccination programme
First tell me why we can't ever compare when it's bad.
Because this is exactly my point.
We're amazing when it suits us but it's not fair when it doesn't. This is juvenile.
Bless
Ninth or tenth in Europe. World beating.
Bless.
So how about that world beating death rate, now I've come up with the data?
Which is better 10 vulnerable people with 2 doses or 1000 with 1 dose.
Our full vaccination rate is 0.74%.
That’s not what I asked.
I think the two should be balanced, which we are not doing. We are ramping up first jabs and claiming it's world beating.
Ten million versus half a million."This government have spectacularly cocked up nearly everything to do with this pandemic however with the prevalence of Covid in the U.K. I think PHE are correct on this one. The figures produced by AZ appears to support them. | |||
| |||
"Having looked at the info on Ourworldindata, the total number of FULL vaccinations of the countries that have been listed above are: Israel 1.8 m UAE 253K Denmark 100K Italy. 948K Slovenia 29K Iceland. 5K Spain. 1.9m Malta. 6K Estonia. 16K Poland. 395K Germany. 830K RomanIa. 163K UK 496K In terms of overall vaccinations, UK’s figure is about 11 million, Israel 4.9m, UAE 3.9m, Germany 3.0, Italy 2.3m and Spain 1.9m E.& O.E. " Correct. | |||
"Having looked at the info on Ourworldindata, the total number of FULL vaccinations of the countries that have been listed above are: Israel 1.8 m UAE 253K Denmark 100K Italy. 948K Slovenia 29K Iceland. 5K Spain. 1.9m Malta. 6K Estonia. 16K Poland. 395K Germany. 830K RomanIa. 163K UK 496K In terms of overall vaccinations, UK’s figure is about 11 million, Israel 4.9m, UAE 3.9m, Germany 3.0, Italy 2.3m and Spain 1.9m E.& O.E. Correct." From those figures, we are 6million ahead of Israel and 8million ahead of Germany in overall vaccinations. From a personal perspective, I’m OK with as many of the elderly and vulnerable as possible receiving the first dose as a matter of priority. | |||
" From those figures, we are 6million ahead of Israel and 8million ahead of Germany in overall vaccinations. From a personal perspective, I’m OK with as many of the elderly and vulnerable as possible receiving the first dose as a matter of priority." Percentage of population matters, and whether one prioritises full or partial vaccination. The original thing was "look at the ways in which the UK are awesome". I think it's an unusual choice with vaccination which I dearly hope pays off, but it's unorthodox and risky. Hardly a glowing report on our overall performance. | |||
| |||
"I trust the government, yes they have made mistakes but , no government has ever gone through this before , but so far Boris and co have done good "  | |||
" From those figures, we are 6million ahead of Israel and 8million ahead of Germany in overall vaccinations. From a personal perspective, I’m OK with as many of the elderly and vulnerable as possible receiving the first dose as a matter of priority. Percentage of population matters, and whether one prioritises full or partial vaccination. The original thing was "look at the ways in which the UK are awesome". I think it's an unusual choice with vaccination which I dearly hope pays off, but it's unorthodox and risky. Hardly a glowing report on our overall performance." I think it's back to the selective bias, eager to spout 'world beating', like a d*unken parrot at any opportunity but carefully misdirecting attention, as there's such an huge range of failures in their trail. | |||
" From those figures, we are 6million ahead of Israel and 8million ahead of Germany in overall vaccinations. From a personal perspective, I’m OK with as many of the elderly and vulnerable as possible receiving the first dose as a matter of priority. Percentage of population matters, and whether one prioritises full or partial vaccination. The original thing was "look at the ways in which the UK are awesome". I think it's an unusual choice with vaccination which I dearly hope pays off, but it's unorthodox and risky. Hardly a glowing report on our overall performance. I think it's back to the selective bias, eager to spout 'world beating', like a d*unken parrot at any opportunity but carefully misdirecting attention, as there's such an huge range of failures in their trail. " Agreed. | |||
| |||
"As much as I want some 'us ' time again and some kind of routine for our kid again for people to say it doesn't effect kids is a joke. I mean our respiratory systems are all the same right ? Even if it's not generally causing the kids to many issues personally it's still travelling with them and effecting those more vulnerable I'd assume " There is an age correlation with severe disease (younger, less severe), although there's definitely groups of children who have long term effects. The systemic inflammatory disorder, particularly seen in children (although rare) is concerning. | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I guess our government scientists are basing their theories on the UK, not France or Germany, Lots of variables such as infection rates etc, according to some people we can't compare death rates, how can we compare other rates and what gets done to combat them between countries.
If we were really interested in learning something we might find useful, then we could ask ourselves what and why we are doing things differently to somewhere like New Zealand...
That's pointless as Bern said many times. More people in Lancashire than New Zealand
Look at the figures of Japan compared to ours.
There is limited value in comparing nations figures, the methodology in each country’s figures and testing processes is vastly different
The UK claims it's world beating repeatedly. And yet when people try to make comparisons we're told it's unreasonable. Why?
Same science, same sovereignty. Island advantage. Advance warning compared to some countries
Or is "world beating" just a lullaby or lie to tell ourselves?
I like holding adults to standards so we can improve."Yes it’s a lie. The problem is finding data that is genuinely comparable. | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I guess our government scientists are basing their theories on the UK, not France or Germany, Lots of variables such as infection rates etc, according to some people we can't compare death rates, how can we compare other rates and what gets done to combat them between countries.
If we were really interested in learning something we might find useful, then we could ask ourselves what and why we are doing things differently to somewhere like New Zealand...
That's pointless as Bern said many times. More people in Lancashire than New Zealand
Look at the figures of Japan compared to ours.
There is limited value in comparing nations figures, the methodology in each country’s figures and testing processes is vastly different
The UK claims it's world beating repeatedly. And yet when people try to make comparisons we're told it's unreasonable. Why?
Same science, same sovereignty. Island advantage. Advance warning compared to some countries
Or is "world beating" just a lullaby or lie to tell ourselves?
I like holding adults to standards so we can improve.
Yes it’s a lie. The problem is finding data that is genuinely comparable."There isn't any one for one comparison, but to say any comparison is invalid is only marginally better than "only positive comparisons are valid" | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I guess our government scientists are basing their theories on the UK, not France or Germany, Lots of variables such as infection rates etc, according to some people we can't compare death rates, how can we compare other rates and what gets done to combat them between countries.
If we were really interested in learning something we might find useful, then we could ask ourselves what and why we are doing things differently to somewhere like New Zealand...
That's pointless as Bern said many times. More people in Lancashire than New Zealand
Look at the figures of Japan compared to ours.
There is limited value in comparing nations figures, the methodology in each country’s figures and testing processes is vastly different
The UK claims it's world beating repeatedly. And yet when people try to make comparisons we're told it's unreasonable. Why?
Same science, same sovereignty. Island advantage. Advance warning compared to some countries
Or is "world beating" just a lullaby or lie to tell ourselves?
I like holding adults to standards so we can improve.
Yes it’s a lie. The problem is finding data that is genuinely comparable.
There isn't any one for one comparison, but to say any comparison is invalid is only marginally better than "only positive comparisons are valid""What I’m saying in comparing stats like deaths per million doesn’t give the full picture when looked at in isolation. Different procedures in terms of testing and recording, different levels of truth in the figures too and different demographics, it’s complicated. Some countries simply don’t record Covid deaths as Covid deaths! | |||
"From what I understand French and German kids are at school. Our government said they are following the scientists in not sending the kids in. Whose right?
Well I guess our government scientists are basing their theories on the UK, not France or Germany, Lots of variables such as infection rates etc, according to some people we can't compare death rates, how can we compare other rates and what gets done to combat them between countries.
If we were really interested in learning something we might find useful, then we could ask ourselves what and why we are doing things differently to somewhere like New Zealand...
That's pointless as Bern said many times. More people in Lancashire than New Zealand
Look at the figures of Japan compared to ours.
There is limited value in comparing nations figures, the methodology in each country’s figures and testing processes is vastly different
The UK claims it's world beating repeatedly. And yet when people try to make comparisons we're told it's unreasonable. Why?
Same science, same sovereignty. Island advantage. Advance warning compared to some countries
Or is "world beating" just a lullaby or lie to tell ourselves?
I like holding adults to standards so we can improve.
Yes it’s a lie. The problem is finding data that is genuinely comparable.
There isn't any one for one comparison, but to say any comparison is invalid is only marginally better than "only positive comparisons are valid"
What I’m saying in comparing stats like deaths per million doesn’t give the full picture when looked at in isolation. Different procedures in terms of testing and recording, different levels of truth in the figures too and different demographics, it’s complicated. Some countries simply don’t record Covid deaths as Covid deaths! "Agreed, and figures will be messy for a variety of reasons, it's a crisis But I think that broad comparison can be drawn between, say, first world countries or first world countries with similar cultures. It would seem that some want to dismiss any unfavourable comparison to the UK for reasons which are nonsense. | |||
"I trust the government, yes they have made mistakes but , no government has ever gone through this before , but so far Boris and co have done good " So far boris and co have got it wrong more often than if they had just flipped a coin! If we used the method of letting a gerbil run around in a box and looking which square it shat on first, it would do a better job than the government. | |||
