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They can’t be serious. Shambolic
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
A passenger arriving from Brazil on the new rules regarding quarantine.
“Wilber Santos was among the first passengers to arrive in the UK on Monday morning from a red list country. He had travelled from Brazil, where he was looking after his elderly parents, via Madrid and on to Heathrow.
Although he says he is not against quarantine hotels and fully understands the need to isolate, he felt that the system was flawed: "On board the plane from Madrid I was sitting with people who had not been in a high-risk country.
'When we arrived, I had to board a crowded transit shuttle to the terminal. It was absolutely packed with people, some from high-risk countries, others from lower risk. It is a frustrating system, it doesn't follow logic."
Heathrow airport says the process the government has designed”
So we mix up the high risk people with the low risk then send the low risk home while keeping their potential infectors locked up.
Either shut the borders or don’t! Personally I would say shut the borders!
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The hotels don't all have appropriate ventilation systems either and the government specifications for the hotels included aircon systems that pumped air from corridors into guests rooms. Fine for directing the virus to people, perhaps just before they left quarantine, to get out into the real world  |
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"The hotels don't all have appropriate ventilation systems either and the government specifications for the hotels included aircon systems that pumped air from corridors into guests rooms. Fine for directing the virus to people, perhaps just before they left quarantine, to get out into the real world "
We should just shut boarders or get all inbound to isolate in hotels with testing |
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By *JCouple
over a year ago
Teesside |
"A passenger arriving from Brazil on the new rules regarding quarantine.
“Wilber Santos was among the first passengers to arrive in the UK on Monday morning from a red list country. He had travelled from Brazil, where he was looking after his elderly parents, via Madrid and on to Heathrow.
Although he says he is not against quarantine hotels and fully understands the need to isolate, he felt that the system was flawed: "On board the plane from Madrid I was sitting with people who had not been in a high-risk country.
'When we arrived, I had to board a crowded transit shuttle to the terminal. It was absolutely packed with people, some from high-risk countries, others from lower risk. It is a frustrating system, it doesn't follow logic."
Heathrow airport says the process the government has designed”
So we mix up the high risk people with the low risk then send the low risk home while keeping their potential infectors locked up.
Either shut the borders or don’t! Personally I would say shut the borders!
"
After the shambles we seen coming back from South Africa on March 12th 2020 I can totally see the above happening and its yet another example of the UK's sheer stupidity in trying to contain the virus 
Yet I believe it was in Brisbane (Population 2.28 million) in Australia who did a full lockdown not that long ago due to 3 positive tests in the entire area??.
Then last month the full city locked down for 3 days due to 1 infection. That's right 1 infection! Not the tens of thousands of infections that the UK faces every day!!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-australia-55582836
KJ |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A passenger arriving from Brazil on the new rules regarding quarantine.
“Wilber Santos was among the first passengers to arrive in the UK on Monday morning from a red list country. He had travelled from Brazil, where he was looking after his elderly parents, via Madrid and on to Heathrow.
Although he says he is not against quarantine hotels and fully understands the need to isolate, he felt that the system was flawed: "On board the plane from Madrid I was sitting with people who had not been in a high-risk country.
'When we arrived, I had to board a crowded transit shuttle to the terminal. It was absolutely packed with people, some from high-risk countries, others from lower risk. It is a frustrating system, it doesn't follow logic."
Heathrow airport says the process the government has designed”
So we mix up the high risk people with the low risk then send the low risk home while keeping their potential infectors locked up.
Either shut the borders or don’t! Personally I would say shut the borders!
After the shambles we seen coming back from South Africa on March 12th 2020 I can totally see the above happening and its yet another example of the UK's sheer stupidity in trying to contain the virus
Yet I believe it was in Brisbane (Population 2.28 million) in Australia who did a full lockdown not that long ago due to 3 positive tests in the entire area??.
Then last month the full city locked down for 3 days due to 1 infection. That's right 1 infection! Not the tens of thousands of infections that the UK faces every day!!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-australia-55582836
KJ"
My sister lives in Perth and they’ve had no community transmission in over 9 months.
They had a 5 day lockdown a few weeks ago as a security guard at a quarantine hotel tested positive.... no guests tested positive, just this one security guy!
It’s a weird world out there  |
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By *JCouple
over a year ago
Teesside |
"A passenger arriving from Brazil on the new rules regarding quarantine.
“Wilber Santos was among the first passengers to arrive in the UK on Monday morning from a red list country. He had travelled from Brazil, where he was looking after his elderly parents, via Madrid and on to Heathrow.
Although he says he is not against quarantine hotels and fully understands the need to isolate, he felt that the system was flawed: "On board the plane from Madrid I was sitting with people who had not been in a high-risk country.
'When we arrived, I had to board a crowded transit shuttle to the terminal. It was absolutely packed with people, some from high-risk countries, others from lower risk. It is a frustrating system, it doesn't follow logic."
Heathrow airport says the process the government has designed”
So we mix up the high risk people with the low risk then send the low risk home while keeping their potential infectors locked up.
Either shut the borders or don’t! Personally I would say shut the borders!
After the shambles we seen coming back from South Africa on March 12th 2020 I can totally see the above happening and its yet another example of the UK's sheer stupidity in trying to contain the virus
Yet I believe it was in Brisbane (Population 2.28 million) in Australia who did a full lockdown not that long ago due to 3 positive tests in the entire area??.
Then last month the full city locked down for 3 days due to 1 infection. That's right 1 infection! Not the tens of thousands of infections that the UK faces every day!!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-australia-55582836
KJ
My sister lives in Perth and they’ve had no community transmission in over 9 months.
They had a 5 day lockdown a few weeks ago as a security guard at a quarantine hotel tested positive.... no guests tested positive, just this one security guy!
It’s a weird world out there "
They seem to be ruthless with dealing with the virus they literally don't give it time to breath and spread. It's the polar opposite to the UK.
KJ |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A passenger arriving from Brazil on the new rules regarding quarantine.
“Wilber Santos was among the first passengers to arrive in the UK on Monday morning from a red list country. He had travelled from Brazil, where he was looking after his elderly parents, via Madrid and on to Heathrow.
Although he says he is not against quarantine hotels and fully understands the need to isolate, he felt that the system was flawed: "On board the plane from Madrid I was sitting with people who had not been in a high-risk country.
'When we arrived, I had to board a crowded transit shuttle to the terminal. It was absolutely packed with people, some from high-risk countries, others from lower risk. It is a frustrating system, it doesn't follow logic."
Heathrow airport says the process the government has designed”
So we mix up the high risk people with the low risk then send the low risk home while keeping their potential infectors locked up.
Either shut the borders or don’t! Personally I would say shut the borders!
After the shambles we seen coming back from South Africa on March 12th 2020 I can totally see the above happening and its yet another example of the UK's sheer stupidity in trying to contain the virus
Yet I believe it was in Brisbane (Population 2.28 million) in Australia who did a full lockdown not that long ago due to 3 positive tests in the entire area??.
Then last month the full city locked down for 3 days due to 1 infection. That's right 1 infection! Not the tens of thousands of infections that the UK faces every day!!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-australia-55582836
KJ
My sister lives in Perth and they’ve had no community transmission in over 9 months.
They had a 5 day lockdown a few weeks ago as a security guard at a quarantine hotel tested positive.... no guests tested positive, just this one security guy!
It’s a weird world out there
They seem to be ruthless with dealing with the virus they literally don't give it time to breath and spread. It's the polar opposite to the UK.
KJ"
I would say we need to do the same but it’s far too late now |
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By *ucka39Man
over a year ago
Newcastle |
Moment the UK government opens up lockdown the numbers are going to increase in deaths far too much in a rush to save the economy but not human life always about money should be made accountable for the deaths whilst in control and removed... |
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"A passenger arriving from Brazil on the new rules regarding quarantine.
“Wilber Santos was among the first passengers to arrive in the UK on Monday morning from a red list country. He had travelled from Brazil, where he was looking after his elderly parents, via Madrid and on to Heathrow.
Although he says he is not against quarantine hotels and fully understands the need to isolate, he felt that the system was flawed: "On board the plane from Madrid I was sitting with people who had not been in a high-risk country.
'When we arrived, I had to board a crowded transit shuttle to the terminal. It was absolutely packed with people, some from high-risk countries, others from lower risk. It is a frustrating system, it doesn't follow logic."
Heathrow airport says the process the government has designed”
So we mix up the high risk people with the low risk then send the low risk home while keeping their potential infectors locked up.
Either shut the borders or don’t! Personally I would say shut the borders!
After the shambles we seen coming back from South Africa on March 12th 2020 I can totally see the above happening and its yet another example of the UK's sheer stupidity in trying to contain the virus
Yet I believe it was in Brisbane (Population 2.28 million) in Australia who did a full lockdown not that long ago due to 3 positive tests in the entire area??.
Then last month the full city locked down for 3 days due to 1 infection. That's right 1 infection! Not the tens of thousands of infections that the UK faces every day!!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-australia-55582836
KJ
My sister lives in Perth and they’ve had no community transmission in over 9 months.
They had a 5 day lockdown a few weeks ago as a security guard at a quarantine hotel tested positive.... no guests tested positive, just this one security guy!
It’s a weird world out there
They seem to be ruthless with dealing with the virus they literally don't give it time to breath and spread. It's the polar opposite to the UK.
KJ
I would say we need to do the same but it’s far too late now "
We'd have to sort out accompanied freight as well, which could be done at a cost, that and international travel bans. Fully support the travel and freight industries and the rest of the UK, could get back to some form of near normality in a very large bubble... If they had done this whilst we were watching the health systems in Italy and Spain buckle under the pressure we might be in a much better place now. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Over here, too many people don't take it seriously.
Our government put us on lockdown and there's people rebelling saying "you can't take our freedom".
They take us out of lockdown and a lot of those same people are saying "what the heck? It's only going to spread more again".
Whatever decisions the government take, they're going to be wrong. We're a namby pamby country. Too many want it all, on their terms and their terms only, but won't take responsibility for themselves or those they live |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Over here, too many people don't take it seriously.
Our government put us on lockdown and there's people rebelling saying "you can't take our freedom".
They take us out of lockdown and a lot of those same people are saying "what the heck? It's only going to spread more again".
Whatever decisions the government take, they're going to be wrong. We're a namby pamby country. Too many want it all, on their terms and their terms only, but won't take responsibility for themselves or those they live "
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Over here, too many people don't take it seriously.
Our government put us on lockdown and there's people rebelling saying "you can't take our freedom".
They take us out of lockdown and a lot of those same people are saying "what the heck? It's only going to spread more again".
Whatever decisions the government take, they're going to be wrong. We're a namby pamby country. Too many want it all, on their terms and their terms only, but won't take responsibility for themselves or those they live "
I agree there are lots of people who don’t take it seriously so things like house parties etc are constantly in the news. I also think that if Boris had just sacked Cummings that the message would be better received.
if government had bitten the bullet and just shut the borders from day one and quarantined everyone arriving ( arrivals would be limited by capacity) then the message and plan would have had more force.
While we were in the first lock down Manchester airport had thousands of people still arriving daily and these were not rescue flights.
As an earlier poster said money was the driver not lives. Turns out if they had been firmer the economy probably wouldn’t have suffered so much. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Over here, too many people don't take it seriously.
Our government put us on lockdown and there's people rebelling saying "you can't take our freedom".
They take us out of lockdown and a lot of those same people are saying "what the heck? It's only going to spread more again".
Whatever decisions the government take, they're going to be wrong. We're a namby pamby country. Too many want it all, on their terms and their terms only, but won't take responsibility for themselves or those they live "
You are right but we are not the only namby pandy country just look at Holland and their night time curfew riots. |
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My friends brother works abroad and they have very strict quarantine and resting procedures for travelling to and from work. He left via Birmingham Airport and said it was all very well managed but flew home to Heathrow (before quarantine rules) and said it was bloody awful. The staff had no control over anything, often looking like they didn't know what was going on etc. |
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By *andy 1Couple
over a year ago
northeast |
"Over here, too many people don't take it seriously.
Our government put us on lockdown and there's people rebelling saying "you can't take our freedom".
They take us out of lockdown and a lot of those same people are saying "what the heck? It's only going to spread more again".
Whatever decisions the government take, they're going to be wrong. We're a namby pamby country. Too many want it all, on their terms and their terms only, but won't take responsibility for themselves or those they live "
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the government have been utterly useless throughout. johnson, hancock, raab, patel .... they have spent a year bumbling around looking like rabbits in the headlights the whole time. shame they couldn't have grown a spine and actually managed the situation around the virus. |
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"My friends brother works abroad and they have very strict quarantine and resting procedures for travelling to and from work. He left via Birmingham Airport and said it was all very well managed but flew home to Heathrow (before quarantine rules) and said it was bloody awful. The staff had no control over anything, often looking like they didn't know what was going on etc. "
I'm currently in the EU and can assure you in some countries it's a cluster fcuk |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There's a gelato/ice cream bar near where I live, it's open and most days a queue of 20 odd people outside waiting for ice cream. All bunched up on the pavement and people walking past as its a narrow pavement. How is ice cream selling classed as essential shopping? Not just them but other shops with food for sale. Madness. Just madness. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Over here, too many people don't take it seriously.
Our government put us on lockdown and there's people rebelling saying "you can't take our freedom".
They take us out of lockdown and a lot of those same people are saying "what the heck? It's only going to spread more again".
Whatever decisions the government take, they're going to be wrong. We're a namby pamby country. Too many want it all, on their terms and their terms only, but won't take responsibility for themselves or those they live "
I agree that not enough people are taking personal responsibility and too many are flouting (and even more bending) the rules.
But some of this can be levelled at the Govt. Absolutely all people should be sensible but the lack of decisive consistent action and policy making by the Govt (just look at the OP for a perfect example) has provided excuses for those less likely to comply in the first place.
Too many examples of people in positions of power or influence (not just Tory) ignoring the rules (Cummings being the most obvious example).
It means those already sceptical or those who already do not trust the Govt can point and say “look one rule for them and another for the plebs”. Not saying that remotely makes it right or ok but that is the reality.
The actions (or often more the inaction) of this Govt has seen them lose moral authority.
It also means the rest of us who ARE sticking to the rules and diligently doing our bit are getting increasingly angry at our friends, family or neighbours who are not. |
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Borders should be closed and should have been closed since March. A couple I know have just got back from a holiday in Dubai. How were they allowed to do that?! The rules are ridiculous and don’t even seem to be being enforced anyway. At this rate we have no hope of returning to a normal life any time soon. |
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this started before cummings. part of the initial advice was DO NOT SHAKE HANDS.
our science denier in chief had this to say afterwards, “I was at a hospital the other night where I think there were a few coronavirus patients and I shook hands with everybody, you will be pleased to know, and I continue to shake hands,” |
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"Moment the UK government opens up lockdown the numbers are going to increase in deaths far too much in a rush to save the economy but not human life always about money should be made accountable for the deaths whilst in control and removed..."
But more people have had the vaccine now. |
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"this started before cummings. part of the initial advice was DO NOT SHAKE HANDS.
our science denier in chief had this to say afterwards, “I was at a hospital the other night where I think there were a few coronavirus patients and I shook hands with everybody, you will be pleased to know, and I continue to shake hands,”"
It was done at the time to try and give confidence and lessen concern. Once again hindsight on your part allows you to know better now |
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"Borders should be closed and should have been closed since March. A couple I know have just got back from a holiday in Dubai. How were they allowed to do that?! The rules are ridiculous and don’t even seem to be being enforced anyway. At this rate we have no hope of returning to a normal life any time soon. "
Dubai isn't on the red list.
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By *ocbigMan
over a year ago
Birmingham |
can I just point out that as well as mixed/shambolic government messages & response...the admin of the scheme is in the hands of Serco &/or G4S who may have previous....
and yet they keep getting contracts....hmmmm |
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"can I just point out that as well as mixed/shambolic government messages & response...the admin of the scheme is in the hands of Serco &/or G4S who may have previous....
and yet they keep getting contracts....hmmmm"
Serco says it all. |
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"Borders should be closed and should have been closed since March. A couple I know have just got back from a holiday in Dubai. How were they allowed to do that?! The rules are ridiculous and don’t even seem to be being enforced anyway. At this rate we have no hope of returning to a normal life any time soon.
Dubai isn't on the red list.
"
The UAE should have UK on a red list  |
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"this started before cummings. part of the initial advice was DO NOT SHAKE HANDS.
our science denier in chief had this to say afterwards, “I was at a hospital the other night where I think there were a few coronavirus patients and I shook hands with everybody, you will be pleased to know, and I continue to shake hands,”
It was done at the time to try and give confidence and lessen concern. Once again hindsight on your part allows you to know better now"
you need to hindsight to know that it's not a great idea to shake hands with a contagious disease? |
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"this started before cummings. part of the initial advice was DO NOT SHAKE HANDS.
our science denier in chief had this to say afterwards, “I was at a hospital the other night where I think there were a few coronavirus patients and I shook hands with everybody, you will be pleased to know, and I continue to shake hands,”
It was done at the time to try and give confidence and lessen concern. Once again hindsight on your part allows you to know better now"
Has you suggested Boris did it to show just what a stupid idea it was to ignore the scientific advice it might have been more relevant,tbh not sure who took any confidence at all from his actions ..
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"this started before cummings. part of the initial advice was DO NOT SHAKE HANDS.
our science denier in chief had this to say afterwards, “I was at a hospital the other night where I think there were a few coronavirus patients and I shook hands with everybody, you will be pleased to know, and I continue to shake hands,”
It was done at the time to try and give confidence and lessen concern. Once again hindsight on your part allows you to know better now
you need to hindsight to know that it's not a great idea to shake hands with a contagious disease?"
It's known now wasn't known for sure then |
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"this started before cummings. part of the initial advice was DO NOT SHAKE HANDS.
our science denier in chief had this to say afterwards, “I was at a hospital the other night where I think there were a few coronavirus patients and I shook hands with everybody, you will be pleased to know, and I continue to shake hands,”
It was done at the time to try and give confidence and lessen concern. Once again hindsight on your part allows you to know better now
you need to hindsight to know that it's not a great idea to shake hands with a contagious disease?
It's known now wasn't known for sure then"
I'm fairly sure people knew it was contagious. |
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"this started before cummings. part of the initial advice was DO NOT SHAKE HANDS.
our science denier in chief had this to say afterwards, “I was at a hospital the other night where I think there were a few coronavirus patients and I shook hands with everybody, you will be pleased to know, and I continue to shake hands,”
It was done at the time to try and give confidence and lessen concern. Once again hindsight on your part allows you to know better now
Has you suggested Boris did it to show just what a stupid idea it was to ignore the scientific advice it might have been more relevant,tbh not sure who took any confidence at all from his actions ..
"
Nobody can be you're right doesn't mean it wasn't done for that reason though |
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"this started before cummings. part of the initial advice was DO NOT SHAKE HANDS.
our science denier in chief had this to say afterwards, “I was at a hospital the other night where I think there were a few coronavirus patients and I shook hands with everybody, you will be pleased to know, and I continue to shake hands,”
It was done at the time to try and give confidence and lessen concern. Once again hindsight on your part allows you to know better now
you need to hindsight to know that it's not a great idea to shake hands with a contagious disease?
It's known now wasn't known for sure then
I'm fairly sure people knew it was contagious. "
I'm fairly sure you can't be 100% sure |
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"this started before cummings. part of the initial advice was DO NOT SHAKE HANDS.
our science denier in chief had this to say afterwards, “I was at a hospital the other night where I think there were a few coronavirus patients and I shook hands with everybody, you will be pleased to know, and I continue to shake hands,”
It was done at the time to try and give confidence and lessen concern. Once again hindsight on your part allows you to know better now
Has you suggested Boris did it to show just what a stupid idea it was to ignore the scientific advice it might have been more relevant,tbh not sure who took any confidence at all from his actions ..
Nobody can be you're right doesn't mean it wasn't done for that reason though"
But if it was the logic behind the reasoning to do so is pretty negligent..
When our kids were young we all warned them about the dangers in the kitchen with cooking etc, pretty sure we all didn't then place our hand over the naked flames of the gas ring for any reason..
And rightly so.. |
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"this started before cummings. part of the initial advice was DO NOT SHAKE HANDS.
our science denier in chief had this to say afterwards, “I was at a hospital the other night where I think there were a few coronavirus patients and I shook hands with everybody, you will be pleased to know, and I continue to shake hands,”
It was done at the time to try and give confidence and lessen concern. Once again hindsight on your part allows you to know better now
Has you suggested Boris did it to show just what a stupid idea it was to ignore the scientific advice it might have been more relevant,tbh not sure who took any confidence at all from his actions ..
Nobody can be you're right doesn't mean it wasn't done for that reason though
But if it was the logic behind the reasoning to do so is pretty negligent..
When our kids were young we all warned them about the dangers in the kitchen with cooking etc, pretty sure we all didn't then place our hand over the naked flames of the gas ring for any reason..
And rightly so.. "
But we knew of those dangers, when he shook hands it wasn't confirmed |
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sage confirmed that the disease was transmitted person-to-person on 22nd january. johnson was still shaking hands with the likes of anthony joshua and phillip schofield on 9th march and beyond.
but then johnson couldn't be bothered to turn up to any of the sage meetings untill 5th march in a clear disregard for the graivty of the situation. |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"sage confirmed that the disease was transmitted person-to-person on 22nd january. johnson was still shaking hands with the likes of anthony joshua and phillip schofield on 9th march and beyond.
but then johnson couldn't be bothered to turn up to any of the sage meetings untill 5th march in a clear disregard for the graivty of the situation. "
Maybe he did not but had people there to represent him as he cannot be in more than one place at a time
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"Stable door comes to mind .... "
Not really.. Theres plenty more horses still to bolt. We are going to be managing this until the world gets its act together. So at least another 12 to 18 months. Better an imperfect process than none at all.
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By *ocbigMan
over a year ago
Birmingham |
"sage confirmed that the disease was transmitted person-to-person on 22nd january. johnson was still shaking hands with the likes of anthony joshua and phillip schofield on 9th march and beyond.
but then johnson couldn't be bothered to turn up to any of the sage meetings untill 5th march in a clear disregard for the graivty of the situation.
Maybe he did not but had people there to represent him as he cannot be in more than one place at a time
"
sooooo busy like he is now, supposed to be formulating a 'road map' out of this, but pops up on another away day in a hard hat &/or white coat somewhere that isn't his office, brings to mind the boss always off playing golf whilst the company goes down the pan..."Really? I had no idea". |
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"sage confirmed that the disease was transmitted person-to-person on 22nd january. johnson was still shaking hands with the likes of anthony joshua and phillip schofield on 9th march and beyond.
but then johnson couldn't be bothered to turn up to any of the sage meetings untill 5th march in a clear disregard for the graivty of the situation. "
I remember watching going "wtf are you doing hands off" at the time.
The gravity of the situation hadn't hit me - a layperson - yet. But I damn well knew it was contagious! |
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"sage confirmed that the disease was transmitted person-to-person on 22nd january. johnson was still shaking hands with the likes of anthony joshua and phillip schofield on 9th march and beyond.
but then johnson couldn't be bothered to turn up to any of the sage meetings untill 5th march in a clear disregard for the graivty of the situation.
Maybe he did not but had people there to represent him as he cannot be in more than one place at a time
"
Certainly true.
He had a very pressing few days off to attend.
6 times. |
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"But I damn well knew it was contagious!"
we all did, mostly because we were told that it was by sage 7 weeks previously. possibly apart from johnsons lickspitles who have bleated about hindsight for the last 13 months.
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"sage confirmed that the disease was transmitted person-to-person on 22nd january. johnson was still shaking hands with the likes of anthony joshua and phillip schofield on 9th march and beyond.
but then johnson couldn't be bothered to turn up to any of the sage meetings untill 5th march in a clear disregard for the graivty of the situation.
Maybe he did not but had people there to represent him as he cannot be in more than one place at a time
sooooo busy like he is now, supposed to be formulating a 'road map' out of this, but pops up on another away day in a hard hat &/or white coat somewhere that isn't his office, brings to mind the boss always off playing golf whilst the company goes down the pan..."Really? I had no idea"."
Do we really want BoJo putting the plans together or better to send him away till everything is finalized and just tell him to announce it? |
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"sage confirmed that the disease was transmitted person-to-person on 22nd january. johnson was still shaking hands with the likes of anthony joshua and phillip schofield on 9th march and beyond.
but then johnson couldn't be bothered to turn up to any of the sage meetings untill 5th march in a clear disregard for the graivty of the situation. "
China was still claiming very few infected and no human to human transmission back in Jan 2020 |
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Like the shambles of allowing homemade cloth masks and masks that arent even remotely effective, they really don't care.
It's all about being seen to take a tough line rather than actually doing what's necessary to control the virus. |
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"Like the shambles of allowing homemade cloth masks and masks that arent even remotely effective, they really don't care.
It's all about being seen to take a tough line rather than actually doing what's necessary to control the virus. "
Many countries did this not just UK |
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"Like the shambles of allowing homemade cloth masks and masks that arent even remotely effective, they really don't care.
It's all about being seen to take a tough line rather than actually doing what's necessary to control the virus.
Many countries did this not just UK"
Indeed but it just gives people a false sense of security whilst offering almost no protection |
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"Like the shambles of allowing homemade cloth masks and masks that arent even remotely effective, they really don't care.
It's all about being seen to take a tough line rather than actually doing what's necessary to control the virus.
Many countries did this not just UK
Indeed but it just gives people a false sense of security whilst offering almost no protection "
Little or no protection is known now yup |
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By *ocbigMan
over a year ago
Birmingham |
"sage confirmed that the disease was transmitted person-to-person on 22nd january. johnson was still shaking hands with the likes of anthony joshua and phillip schofield on 9th march and beyond.
but then johnson couldn't be bothered to turn up to any of the sage meetings untill 5th march in a clear disregard for the graivty of the situation.
Maybe he did not but had people there to represent him as he cannot be in more than one place at a time
sooooo busy like he is now, supposed to be formulating a 'road map' out of this, but pops up on another away day in a hard hat &/or white coat somewhere that isn't his office, brings to mind the boss always off playing golf whilst the company goes down the pan..."Really? I had no idea".
Do we really want BoJo putting the plans together or better to send him away till everything is finalized and just tell him to announce it?"
now I hadn't thought of that...hmmm. or is that equivalent of the lunatics have taken over the asylum if cabinet are doing it? |
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By *ocbigMan
over a year ago
Birmingham |
"Like the shambles of allowing homemade cloth masks and masks that arent even remotely effective, they really don't care.
It's all about being seen to take a tough line rather than actually doing what's necessary to control the virus. "
Not arguing with your overall point about not caring, but I believe masks are shown to lessen some transmission & combined with distancing etc are effective. |
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"sage confirmed that the disease was transmitted person-to-person on 22nd january. johnson was still shaking hands with the likes of anthony joshua and phillip schofield on 9th march and beyond.
but then johnson couldn't be bothered to turn up to any of the sage meetings untill 5th march in a clear disregard for the graivty of the situation.
Maybe he did not but had people there to represent him as he cannot be in more than one place at a time
sooooo busy like he is now, supposed to be formulating a 'road map' out of this, but pops up on another away day in a hard hat &/or white coat somewhere that isn't his office, brings to mind the boss always off playing golf whilst the company goes down the pan..."Really? I had no idea".
Do we really want BoJo putting the plans together or better to send him away till everything is finalized and just tell him to announce it?
now I hadn't thought of that...hmmm. or is that equivalent of the lunatics have taken over the asylum if cabinet are doing it?"
Who knows maybe ?? |
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"this started before cummings. part of the initial advice was DO NOT SHAKE HANDS.
our science denier in chief had this to say afterwards, “I was at a hospital the other night where I think there were a few coronavirus patients and I shook hands with everybody, you will be pleased to know, and I continue to shake hands,”
It was done at the time to try and give confidence and lessen concern. Once again hindsight on your part allows you to know better now
Has you suggested Boris did it to show just what a stupid idea it was to ignore the scientific advice it might have been more relevant,tbh not sure who took any confidence at all from his actions ..
Nobody can be you're right doesn't mean it wasn't done for that reason though
But if it was the logic behind the reasoning to do so is pretty negligent..
When our kids were young we all warned them about the dangers in the kitchen with cooking etc, pretty sure we all didn't then place our hand over the naked flames of the gas ring for any reason..
And rightly so..
But we knew of those dangers, when he shook hands it wasn't confirmed"
Perhaps but the scientific advice was not to, he chose to ignore that as he also later did with the Sage advice in late September..
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"sage confirmed person to person transmission on 22nd january. it was quite clear for anyone with a modicum of intelligence."
On that day it was clear shaking hands passed the virus or was it just coughs and sneezing at that meeting? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"A passenger arriving from Brazil on the new rules regarding quarantine.
“Wilber Santos was among the first passengers to arrive in the UK on Monday morning from a red list country. He had travelled from Brazil, where he was looking after his elderly parents, via Madrid and on to Heathrow.
Although he says he is not against quarantine hotels and fully understands the need to isolate, he felt that the system was flawed: "On board the plane from Madrid I was sitting with people who had not been in a high-risk country.
'When we arrived, I had to board a crowded transit shuttle to the terminal. It was absolutely packed with people, some from high-risk countries, others from lower risk. It is a frustrating system, it doesn't follow logic."
Heathrow airport says the process the government has designed”
So we mix up the high risk people with the low risk then send the low risk home while keeping their potential infectors locked up.
Either shut the borders or don’t! Personally I would say shut the borders!
After the shambles we seen coming back from South Africa on March 12th 2020 I can totally see the above happening and its yet another example of the UK's sheer stupidity in trying to contain the virus
Yet I believe it was in Brisbane (Population 2.28 million) in Australia who did a full lockdown not that long ago due to 3 positive tests in the entire area??.
Then last month the full city locked down for 3 days due to 1 infection. That's right 1 infection! Not the tens of thousands of infections that the UK faces every day!!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-australia-55582836
KJ"
I understand the point, but roll this on further down the line when the UK is (hopefully) in the same position of no confirmed covid cases recorded for months... Someone tests positive, the government react by putting London or Birmingham or Edinburgh into full lockdown as a result of that 1 single positive test... Will you or the general masses be jumping up and down shouting knee jerk reaction, or will you be saying great exactly what needs to be done? Damned if they do, damned if they don't cames to mind. |
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"sage confirmed person to person transmission on 22nd january. it was quite clear for anyone with a modicum of intelligence.
On that day it was clear shaking hands passed the virus or was it just coughs and sneezing at that meeting?"
I'm not sure why you keep arguing it wasnt a monumentally stupid thing to do.
If someone has a bad cold you keep your distance. |
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"A passenger arriving from Brazil on the new rules regarding quarantine.
“Wilber Santos was among the first passengers to arrive in the UK on Monday morning from a red list country. He had travelled from Brazil, where he was looking after his elderly parents, via Madrid and on to Heathrow.
Although he says he is not against quarantine hotels and fully understands the need to isolate, he felt that the system was flawed: "On board the plane from Madrid I was sitting with people who had not been in a high-risk country.
'When we arrived, I had to board a crowded transit shuttle to the terminal. It was absolutely packed with people, some from high-risk countries, others from lower risk. It is a frustrating system, it doesn't follow logic."
Heathrow airport says the process the government has designed”
So we mix up the high risk people with the low risk then send the low risk home while keeping their potential infectors locked up.
Either shut the borders or don’t! Personally I would say shut the borders!
After the shambles we seen coming back from South Africa on March 12th 2020 I can totally see the above happening and its yet another example of the UK's sheer stupidity in trying to contain the virus
Yet I believe it was in Brisbane (Population 2.28 million) in Australia who did a full lockdown not that long ago due to 3 positive tests in the entire area??.
Then last month the full city locked down for 3 days due to 1 infection. That's right 1 infection! Not the tens of thousands of infections that the UK faces every day!!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-australia-55582836
KJ
I understand the point, but roll this on further down the line when the UK is (hopefully) in the same position of no confirmed covid cases recorded for months... Someone tests positive, the government react by putting London or Birmingham or Edinburgh into full lockdown as a result of that 1 single positive test... Will you or the general masses be jumping up and down shouting knee jerk reaction, or will you be saying great exactly what needs to be done? Damned if they do, damned if they don't cames to mind."
|
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"sage confirmed person to person transmission on 22nd january. it was quite clear for anyone with a modicum of intelligence.
On that day it was clear shaking hands passed the virus or was it just coughs and sneezing at that meeting?
I'm not sure why you keep arguing it wasnt a monumentally stupid thing to do.
If someone has a bad cold you keep your distance."
You're using hindsight and a healthy dose of BoJo hatred the expert advice on the day he shook hands was not no touching it was only washing frequently. |
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"sage confirmed person to person transmission on 22nd january. it was quite clear for anyone with a modicum of intelligence.
On that day it was clear shaking hands passed the virus or was it just coughs and sneezing at that meeting?
I'm not sure why you keep arguing it wasnt a monumentally stupid thing to do.
If someone has a bad cold you keep your distance.
You're using hindsight and a healthy dose of BoJo hatred the expert advice on the day he shook hands was not no touching it was only washing frequently."
And you need to look up the meaning of the word hindsight. |
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"sage confirmed person to person transmission on 22nd january. it was quite clear for anyone with a modicum of intelligence.
On that day it was clear shaking hands passed the virus or was it just coughs and sneezing at that meeting?
I'm not sure why you keep arguing it wasnt a monumentally stupid thing to do.
If someone has a bad cold you keep your distance."
As many did when HIV showed, they ostracized people, it was wrong for HIV and it was wrong to do so in march 2020 with covid patients |
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"it appears that there is an element which believe that science is a nationalist unionist and is only real if science takes place on UK soil. "
We knew that this was a respiratory illness related to SARS in late January, that person to person transmission occurred.
Loyalty is good and all, but comparing it to HIV and saying we didn't know, couldn't know, just makes people look daft. |
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"sage confirmed person to person transmission on 22nd january. it was quite clear for anyone with a modicum of intelligence.
On that day it was clear shaking hands passed the virus or was it just coughs and sneezing at that meeting?
I'm not sure why you keep arguing it wasnt a monumentally stupid thing to do.
If someone has a bad cold you keep your distance.
As many did when HIV showed, they ostracized people, it was wrong for HIV and it was wrong to do so in march 2020 with covid patients"
It was wrong to shake hands with someone who had an infectious diseases?
Right.
I'm fairly sure at the time when he said he did this, a medical official cautioned against it.
Another captain hindsight. |
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25th february and SAGE start to make the recommendation for lockdown; no hindsight involved.... despite the recommendations johnson is still a week away from bothering to attend his first sage meeting, instead favouring attending lavish banquets and shaking hands with tory party donors & celebs and spending time on holiday in chevening etc rather than visit the cataclysmic flooding that had struck various places in the uk.
#part-timePM |
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"25th february and SAGE start to make the recommendation for lockdown; no hindsight involved.... despite the recommendations johnson is still a week away from bothering to attend his first sage meeting, instead favouring attending lavish banquets and shaking hands with tory party donors & celebs and spending time on holiday in chevening etc rather than visit the cataclysmic flooding that had struck various places in the uk.
#part-timePM"
How hard is it to admit that the government screwed up? Like, honestly. Saying that no one could have known, that it was unprecedented, that anyone would have done the same... It's just nonsense and makes people look unintelligent or dishonest.
I'm not saying people can't support Tories, you do you and all that.
But surely adopt a defensible position? "The UK took the wrong approach, Cabinet members in particular underestimated the threat that the virus posed and made several missteps early on. However, I believe they've since turned it around and are the best people to govern the country because..." (Tories fill the next bit in here) |
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"25th february and SAGE start to make the recommendation for lockdown; no hindsight involved.... despite the recommendations johnson is still a week away from bothering to attend his first sage meeting, instead favouring attending lavish banquets and shaking hands with tory party donors & celebs and spending time on holiday in chevening etc rather than visit the cataclysmic flooding that had struck various places in the uk.
#part-timePM"
The hindsight comes from knowing now these things are/where wrong
after the event. at the time it was not a recommendation to not shake hands |
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"25th february and SAGE start to make the recommendation for lockdown; no hindsight involved.... despite the recommendations johnson is still a week away from bothering to attend his first sage meeting, instead favouring attending lavish banquets and shaking hands with tory party donors & celebs and spending time on holiday in chevening etc rather than visit the cataclysmic flooding that had struck various places in the uk.
#part-timePM
How hard is it to admit that the government screwed up? Like, honestly. Saying that no one could have known, that it was unprecedented, that anyone would have done the same... It's just nonsense and makes people look unintelligent or dishonest.
I'm not saying people can't support Tories, you do you and all that.
But surely adopt a defensible position? "The UK took the wrong approach, Cabinet members in particular underestimated the threat that the virus posed and made several missteps early on. However, I believe they've since turned it around and are the best people to govern the country because..." (Tories fill the next bit in here)"
Not saying things didn't go wrong but I'm also not gonna slate for doing what was deemed best at the time. Yes there is always 2 sides and with hindsight it's easy to be right |
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"25th february and SAGE start to make the recommendation for lockdown; no hindsight involved.... despite the recommendations johnson is still a week away from bothering to attend his first sage meeting, instead favouring attending lavish banquets and shaking hands with tory party donors & celebs and spending time on holiday in chevening etc rather than visit the cataclysmic flooding that had struck various places in the uk.
#part-timePM"
Of course it's hindsight, because before/when that recommendation was made nobody knew for certain it was the right thing to do |
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31st january ... Three days after the first case is identified on British soil, SAGE starts warning of a fast approaching epidemic.
It predicts the number of cases are doubling every four to five days, while the number of cases in China could be as high as 300,000.
Turning to transport restrictions, however, they said that even reducing the number of imported infections by 90 per cent would only buy an estimated 15 days.
'Only a month of additional preparation time for the NHS would be meaningful,' they said. 'To prevent imported infections along these lines would require draconian and coordinated measures, because direct flights from China are not the only route for infected individuals to enter the UK.'
yet still there is no hindsight involved ... only foresight which is willfully ignored by johnson |
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"25th february and SAGE start to make the recommendation for lockdown; no hindsight involved.... despite the recommendations johnson is still a week away from bothering to attend his first sage meeting, instead favouring attending lavish banquets and shaking hands with tory party donors & celebs and spending time on holiday in chevening etc rather than visit the cataclysmic flooding that had struck various places in the uk.
#part-timePM
How hard is it to admit that the government screwed up? Like, honestly. Saying that no one could have known, that it was unprecedented, that anyone would have done the same... It's just nonsense and makes people look unintelligent or dishonest.
I'm not saying people can't support Tories, you do you and all that.
But surely adopt a defensible position? "The UK took the wrong approach, Cabinet members in particular underestimated the threat that the virus posed and made several missteps early on. However, I believe they've since turned it around and are the best people to govern the country because..." (Tories fill the next bit in here)
Not saying things didn't go wrong but I'm also not gonna slate for doing what was deemed best at the time. Yes there is always 2 sides and with hindsight it's easy to be right"
The hindsight of knowing things that we knew before he screwed up?
... Umm ok. |
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"25th february and SAGE start to make the recommendation for lockdown; no hindsight involved.... despite the recommendations johnson is still a week away from bothering to attend his first sage meeting, instead favouring attending lavish banquets and shaking hands with tory party donors & celebs and spending time on holiday in chevening etc rather than visit the cataclysmic flooding that had struck various places in the uk.
#part-timePM
How hard is it to admit that the government screwed up? Like, honestly. Saying that no one could have known, that it was unprecedented, that anyone would have done the same... It's just nonsense and makes people look unintelligent or dishonest.
I'm not saying people can't support Tories, you do you and all that.
But surely adopt a defensible position? "The UK took the wrong approach, Cabinet members in particular underestimated the threat that the virus posed and made several missteps early on. However, I believe they've since turned it around and are the best people to govern the country because..." (Tories fill the next bit in here)
Not saying things didn't go wrong but I'm also not gonna slate for doing what was deemed best at the time. Yes there is always 2 sides and with hindsight it's easy to be right
The hindsight of knowing things that we knew before he screwed up?
... Umm ok."
Have you got a spare crystal ball, could be useful with the lottery  |
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Calling it now. In a month or so when the variants of concern are in the UK population, Tories will say that it was hindsight to be able to know that mixing high risk and low risk people was a bad idea. It's hindsight to sort out ventilation, to allow exercise and smoking. It's hindsight to not allow nebulisers to superspread the virus. It's hindsight to not allow people at the beginning and end of quarantine to mix.
Hint: I'm in the main referring to things that have already happened in Australia and New Zealand, which have dented their quarantine programs.
Although I'm sure the fact that things happened in the past doesn't mean it's not hindsight. Because New Zealand is far away and the outback exists. Or they're in the southern hemisphere. Therefore lessons from other countries cannot apply to the UK |
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"Calling it now. In a month or so when the variants of concern are in the UK population, Tories will say that it was hindsight to be able to know that mixing high risk and low risk people was a bad idea. It's hindsight to sort out ventilation, to allow exercise and smoking. It's hindsight to not allow nebulisers to superspread the virus. It's hindsight to not allow people at the beginning and end of quarantine to mix.
Hint: I'm in the main referring to things that have already happened in Australia and New Zealand, which have dented their quarantine programs.
Although I'm sure the fact that things happened in the past doesn't mean it's not hindsight. Because New Zealand is far away and the outback exists. Or they're in the southern hemisphere. Therefore lessons from other countries cannot apply to the UK "
Then why not do as Sweden did? |
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"Calling it now. In a month or so when the variants of concern are in the UK population, Tories will say that it was hindsight to be able to know that mixing high risk and low risk people was a bad idea. It's hindsight to sort out ventilation, to allow exercise and smoking. It's hindsight to not allow nebulisers to superspread the virus. It's hindsight to not allow people at the beginning and end of quarantine to mix.
Hint: I'm in the main referring to things that have already happened in Australia and New Zealand, which have dented their quarantine programs.
Although I'm sure the fact that things happened in the past doesn't mean it's not hindsight. Because New Zealand is far away and the outback exists. Or they're in the southern hemisphere. Therefore lessons from other countries cannot apply to the UK
Then why not do as Sweden did?"
Because that's gone *so well* for Sweden |
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"Calling it now. In a month or so when the variants of concern are in the UK population, Tories will say that it was hindsight to be able to know that mixing high risk and low risk people was a bad idea. It's hindsight to sort out ventilation, to allow exercise and smoking. It's hindsight to not allow nebulisers to superspread the virus. It's hindsight to not allow people at the beginning and end of quarantine to mix.
Hint: I'm in the main referring to things that have already happened in Australia and New Zealand, which have dented their quarantine programs.
Although I'm sure the fact that things happened in the past doesn't mean it's not hindsight. Because New Zealand is far away and the outback exists. Or they're in the southern hemisphere. Therefore lessons from other countries cannot apply to the UK "
The whole hindsight thing is a perfect example of the power of the media
Sage told Johnson to have a circuit break.starmer agreed.
Boris ignores them and a few weeks later we have a full lockdown,With the consequent x number of deaths.
He then comes out with his captain hindsight bollocks and no one has the balls to point out to him, that hindsight is something you do after the event. |
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"Calling it now. In a month or so when the variants of concern are in the UK population, Tories will say that it was hindsight to be able to know that mixing high risk and low risk people was a bad idea. It's hindsight to sort out ventilation, to allow exercise and smoking. It's hindsight to not allow nebulisers to superspread the virus. It's hindsight to not allow people at the beginning and end of quarantine to mix.
Hint: I'm in the main referring to things that have already happened in Australia and New Zealand, which have dented their quarantine programs.
Although I'm sure the fact that things happened in the past doesn't mean it's not hindsight. Because New Zealand is far away and the outback exists. Or they're in the southern hemisphere. Therefore lessons from other countries cannot apply to the UK
The whole hindsight thing is a perfect example of the power of the media
Sage told Johnson to have a circuit break.starmer agreed.
Boris ignores them and a few weeks later we have a full lockdown,With the consequent x number of deaths.
He then comes out with his captain hindsight bollocks and no one has the balls to point out to him, that hindsight is something you do after the event."
Do people not remember? I don't fucking get it.
Like at Christmas the whole hindsight thing. BoJo changed his mind days after Starmer said to cancel Christmas. It must already have been in the damn works. And yet they just get to smear Starmer over it. |
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"Because New Zealand is far away and the outback exists. Or they're in the southern hemisphere. Therefore lessons from other countries cannot apply to the UK "
it's unfortunate but johnsons lickspittles disallow false equivalence unless it defends johnson or other memebers of his chumocracy |
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"i'm referring to the scientific foresight as recommended by SAGE to johnson prior to his willfull ignoring of it for the last 13 months "
For sure.
He had the experts recommending sensible courses of action. He ignored it. He continues to ignore much of it.
When it all goes to hell, how could he have known? Umm... He was told
When he repeats the same mistakes, one he was told, two he saw how it went last time, three he now has the example of other countries doing it better.
 how could he have known poor Boris
Fucking save me |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If only China had imposes a 'no one in & no one out' policy when they picked up that first infection eh? "
Agree- they were at fault initially and should shoulder some of the blame but we should just do the same.
Taiwan and Vietnam did it straight away with China |
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"Calling it now. In a month or so when the variants of concern are in the UK population, Tories will say that it was hindsight to be able to know that mixing high risk and low risk people was a bad idea. It's hindsight to sort out ventilation, to allow exercise and smoking. It's hindsight to not allow nebulisers to superspread the virus. It's hindsight to not allow people at the beginning and end of quarantine to mix.
Hint: I'm in the main referring to things that have already happened in Australia and New Zealand, which have dented their quarantine programs.
Although I'm sure the fact that things happened in the past doesn't mean it's not hindsight. Because New Zealand is far away and the outback exists. Or they're in the southern hemisphere. Therefore lessons from other countries cannot apply to the UK
The whole hindsight thing is a perfect example of the power of the media
Sage told Johnson to have a circuit break.starmer agreed.
Boris ignores them and a few weeks later we have a full lockdown,With the consequent x number of deaths.
He then comes out with his captain hindsight bollocks and no one has the balls to point out to him, that hindsight is something you do after the event.
Do people not remember? I don't fucking get it.
Like at Christmas the whole hindsight thing. BoJo changed his mind days after Starmer said to cancel Christmas. It must already have been in the damn works. And yet they just get to smear Starmer over it. "
Like I said its the power of the media.
There have been at 3 least separate occasions when he totally ignored scientific advice (the schools just before Christmas was another, remember the legal action?)
Yet anyone who points it out are just fed the hindsight nonsense. |
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"Because New Zealand is far away and the outback exists. Or they're in the southern hemisphere. Therefore lessons from other countries cannot apply to the UK
it's unfortunate but johnsons lickspittles disallow false equivalence unless it defends johnson or other memebers of his chumocracy"
Oh agreed.
But this is a good equivalent.
Look at the ways other countries have struggled with hotel quarantine. Fix it before dealing with the same problems.
Hotels are not different in Australia or New Zealand. Trust me. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"25th february and SAGE start to make the recommendation for lockdown; no hindsight involved.... despite the recommendations johnson is still a week away from bothering to attend his first sage meeting, instead favouring attending lavish banquets and shaking hands with tory party donors & celebs and spending time on holiday in chevening etc rather than visit the cataclysmic flooding that had struck various places in the uk.
#part-timePM
How hard is it to admit that the government screwed up? Like, honestly. Saying that no one could have known, that it was unprecedented, that anyone would have done the same... It's just nonsense and makes people look unintelligent or dishonest.
I'm not saying people can't support Tories, you do you and all that.
But surely adopt a defensible position? "The UK took the wrong approach, Cabinet members in particular underestimated the threat that the virus posed and made several missteps early on. However, I believe they've since turned it around and are the best people to govern the country because..." (Tories fill the next bit in here)"
People take comfort from the whole "we're all in it together" notion. It's easier to believe that problems are/were caused by individual dissenters rather than a systematic failure of government - particularly if you voted for that government.
Nobody wants to think that they've been hung out to dry or that loved ones needlessly died. It's far easier to think it was somehow inevitable and believe that nobody else could have and would have made better and quicker decisions, resulting in fewer lives lost and a stronger economy - even though the actual evidence quite clearly demonstrates that they would have. |
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"If only China had imposes a 'no one in & no one out' policy when they picked up that first infection eh?
Agree- they were at fault initially and should shoulder some of the blame but we should just do the same.
Taiwan and Vietnam did it straight away with China"
They shoulder some blame.
The handling of the mess within the UK, once it got here, is mostly on the Tories. |
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"25th february and SAGE start to make the recommendation for lockdown; no hindsight involved.... despite the recommendations johnson is still a week away from bothering to attend his first sage meeting, instead favouring attending lavish banquets and shaking hands with tory party donors & celebs and spending time on holiday in chevening etc rather than visit the cataclysmic flooding that had struck various places in the uk.
#part-timePM
How hard is it to admit that the government screwed up? Like, honestly. Saying that no one could have known, that it was unprecedented, that anyone would have done the same... It's just nonsense and makes people look unintelligent or dishonest.
I'm not saying people can't support Tories, you do you and all that.
But surely adopt a defensible position? "The UK took the wrong approach, Cabinet members in particular underestimated the threat that the virus posed and made several missteps early on. However, I believe they've since turned it around and are the best people to govern the country because..." (Tories fill the next bit in here)
People take comfort from the whole "we're all in it together" notion. It's easier to believe that problems are/were caused by individual dissenters rather than a systematic failure of government - particularly if you voted for that government.
Nobody wants to think that they've been hung out to dry or that loved ones needlessly died. It's far easier to think it was somehow inevitable and believe that nobody else could have and would have made better and quicker decisions, resulting in fewer lives lost and a stronger economy - even though the actual evidence quite clearly demonstrates that they would have."
I'd rather go where the evidence lies.
And we are all in this together. Most people are obeying the rules, from all the surveys done.
I feel it's predominantly we the people against the bumbling buffoons in government. (Some individuals suck, not all members of the government suck, etc) |
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"Calling it now. In a month or so when the variants of concern are in the UK population, Tories will say that it was hindsight to be able to know that mixing high risk and low risk people was a bad idea. It's hindsight to sort out ventilation, to allow exercise and smoking. It's hindsight to not allow nebulisers to superspread the virus. It's hindsight to not allow people at the beginning and end of quarantine to mix.
Hint: I'm in the main referring to things that have already happened in Australia and New Zealand, which have dented their quarantine programs.
Although I'm sure the fact that things happened in the past doesn't mean it's not hindsight. Because New Zealand is far away and the outback exists. Or they're in the southern hemisphere. Therefore lessons from other countries cannot apply to the UK
Then why not do as Sweden did?
Because that's gone *so well* for Sweden "
It shows that not one plan fits all |
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"25th february and SAGE start to make the recommendation for lockdown; no hindsight involved.... despite the recommendations johnson is still a week away from bothering to attend his first sage meeting, instead favouring attending lavish banquets and shaking hands with tory party donors & celebs and spending time on holiday in chevening etc rather than visit the cataclysmic flooding that had struck various places in the uk.
#part-timePM
How hard is it to admit that the government screwed up? Like, honestly. Saying that no one could have known, that it was unprecedented, that anyone would have done the same... It's just nonsense and makes people look unintelligent or dishonest.
I'm not saying people can't support Tories, you do you and all that.
But surely adopt a defensible position? "The UK took the wrong approach, Cabinet members in particular underestimated the threat that the virus posed and made several missteps early on. However, I believe they've since turned it around and are the best people to govern the country because..." (Tories fill the next bit in here)
People take comfort from the whole "we're all in it together" notion. It's easier to believe that problems are/were caused by individual dissenters rather than a systematic failure of government - particularly if you voted for that government.
Nobody wants to think that they've been hung out to dry or that loved ones needlessly died. It's far easier to think it was somehow inevitable and believe that nobody else could have and would have made better and quicker decisions, resulting in fewer lives lost and a stronger economy - even though the actual evidence quite clearly demonstrates that they would have."
Excellent post
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"25th february and SAGE start to make the recommendation for lockdown; no hindsight involved.... despite the recommendations johnson is still a week away from bothering to attend his first sage meeting, instead favouring attending lavish banquets and shaking hands with tory party donors & celebs and spending time on holiday in chevening etc rather than visit the cataclysmic flooding that had struck various places in the uk.
#part-timePM
Of course it's hindsight, because before/when that recommendation was made nobody knew for certain it was the right thing to do"
They knew what to do from 2016 and also should have copied what countries who had SARS 1 in the past.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/927770/exercise-cygnus-report.pdf
Sorry but the government cannot plead ignorance here
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"Calling it now. In a month or so when the variants of concern are in the UK population, Tories will say that it was hindsight to be able to know that mixing high risk and low risk people was a bad idea. It's hindsight to sort out ventilation, to allow exercise and smoking. It's hindsight to not allow nebulisers to superspread the virus. It's hindsight to not allow people at the beginning and end of quarantine to mix.
Hint: I'm in the main referring to things that have already happened in Australia and New Zealand, which have dented their quarantine programs.
Although I'm sure the fact that things happened in the past doesn't mean it's not hindsight. Because New Zealand is far away and the outback exists. Or they're in the southern hemisphere. Therefore lessons from other countries cannot apply to the UK
Then why not do as Sweden did?
Because that's gone *so well* for Sweden
It shows that not one plan fits all"
Umm... No one says it has.
Sweden took a crazy approach and are paying for it.
Australia and New Zealand took an elimination approach and have largely succeeded.
Why can't we learn from other places? No, it's not all the same, but it's not like we're dealing with different planes, different cultures (Australia and New Zealand have predominantly British heritage, at least traditionally for their European populations), different hotels, different infrastructure, or a different disease. Or different science.
Or is it, Sweden fucked up, therefore Boris can ignore the science and we love him and any criticism of him is invalid? Churchill Blitz spirit!
I reject the notion that the UK is so profoundly stupid. |
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"25th february and SAGE start to make the recommendation for lockdown; no hindsight involved.... despite the recommendations johnson is still a week away from bothering to attend his first sage meeting, instead favouring attending lavish banquets and shaking hands with tory party donors & celebs and spending time on holiday in chevening etc rather than visit the cataclysmic flooding that had struck various places in the uk.
#part-timePM
Of course it's hindsight, because before/when that recommendation was made nobody knew for certain it was the right thing to do
They knew what to do from 2016 and also should have copied what countries who had SARS 1 in the past.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/927770/exercise-cygnus-report.pdf
Sorry but the government cannot plead ignorance here"
they were too busy maximising the amount of money hoovered away into offshore trusts from 2010 when they should've been fixing the countries economic 'roof' whilst the sun was shinning. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
Johnson shaking hands and making a joke about it was totally stupid. Nothing to do with hindsight. The knowledge and warnings were already out there before that.
Oh the irony when he got ill!
Another example of this Govt losing their moral authority! |
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"My friends brother works abroad and they have very strict quarantine and resting procedures for travelling to and from work. He left via Birmingham Airport and said it was all very well managed but flew home to Heathrow (before quarantine rules) and said it was bloody awful. The staff had no control over anything, often looking like they didn't know what was going on etc.
I'm currently in the EU and can assure you in some countries it's a cluster fcuk"
I meant the company had strict protocols, not the country lol |
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"My friends brother works abroad and they have very strict quarantine and resting procedures for travelling to and from work. He left via Birmingham Airport and said it was all very well managed but flew home to Heathrow (before quarantine rules) and said it was bloody awful. The staff had no control over anything, often looking like they didn't know what was going on etc.
I'm currently in the EU and can assure you in some countries it's a cluster fcuk
I meant the company had strict protocols, not the country lol "
I'm also taking about the companies |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Re quarantine countries- nobody talks of the future. Is traveller containment sustainable? Is New Zealand’s plan ultimately wise?
Since none of the vaccines give full immunity from infection and will need 6-12 month boosters, it’s a matter of time before it flares in a population with no natural immunity. This virus will not be ‘going away’ so is there a best answer? |
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"Re quarantine countries- nobody talks of the future. Is traveller containment sustainable? Is New Zealand’s plan ultimately wise?
Since none of the vaccines give full immunity from infection and will need 6-12 month boosters, it’s a matter of time before it flares in a population with no natural immunity. This virus will not be ‘going away’ so is there a best answer? "
According to a recent poll of fab users the best answer is the opposite to what we are currently doing or planning to do. |
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"Re quarantine countries- nobody talks of the future. Is traveller containment sustainable? Is New Zealand’s plan ultimately wise?
Since none of the vaccines give full immunity from infection and will need 6-12 month boosters, it’s a matter of time before it flares in a population with no natural immunity. This virus will not be ‘going away’ so is there a best answer? "
We have no idea if boosters will be needed long term. We'll probably need boosters for current new variants. That doesn't mean that this will continue. |
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