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No jab No Job
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"i brought this up last year was laugh at same with the vaccine id .... but all being talked about now
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Yep and has ben and will be debated but will be driven forward by insurance. If a company can't get insurance if all employees don't have a jab. Such as carers and flight crew but this will happen. And even bosses might not agree but will have no choice in the matter. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's delicate subject, people should be free to choose, have the jab or not have the jab, in the same way the people they care for should have the choice not to be put at risk by the people who are ment to protect them ... |
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By *itty9899Man
over a year ago
Craggy Island |
"Reports of a care home provider saying, no jab, no job..
Interesting times folks..
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I think you are working in a care home, which have been ravaged by the virus and if you care about the residence, I would think you would all ready have the jab. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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out of 300 staff only seven said no but have since changed there mind why they realized they would not/may not be able to travel home (Philippines)so we are 100% now.
now we have job vacancies the 2 owners of the group have said only employ those who have had the jab or agrees to get the jab.
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"When u start working in a hospital u need 2 have hepatitis b vaccine and get check to be immune to other illnesses. Why is this different "
Because HEP.B vaccine didn't take a mere 10 months to roll out to an entire planet of 7 Billion |
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If any of my loved ones need to live in a care home, I would not feel that they were safe of staff weren't vaccinated.... though there are a small number of people who cannot currently have any of the available jabs for medical reasons which is different.
There is no other valid reason not to get one.
It's common for people who work in hospitals to get hep B vaccinations. Travel to certain countries requires vaccination against various illnesses. Why is this different? |
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"Reports of a care home provider saying, no jab, no job..
Interesting times folks..
How is that any different to hepatitis B vaccinations?  "
Some people don't realise that the covid vaccines have find through exactly the same rigorous testing and approval procedures.
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"Reports of a care home provider saying, no jab, no job..
Interesting times folks..
How is that any different to hepatitis B vaccinations?
Some people don't realise that the covid vaccines have find through exactly the same rigorous testing and approval procedures.
"
 |
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"When u start working in a hospital u need 2 have hepatitis b vaccine and get check to be immune to other illnesses. Why is this different
True. I've had to have Hep B to become a vaccinator "
Yep I had to have Hep B when I qualified as a social worker |
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Fully agree. If you work in Nhs front line or care home dealing with elderly sick and vulnerable people you should have the vaccinations (all available not just covid).flu, hep b, tetanus etc unless you have a medical condition that means you can't but then maybe so should all care workers ie social services et . But also people who have to visit elderly and sick . Ie plumbers gas fitters basically anyone who s job mean you have to work in a clients home |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"It's delicate subject, people should be free to choose, have the jab or not have the jab, in the same way the people they care for should have the choice not to be put at risk by the people who are ment to protect them ... "
So you can be a bus driver if you have not passed a driving test then?
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"out of 300 staff only seven said no but have since changed there mind why they realized they would not/may not be able to travel home (Philippines)so we are 100% now.
now we have job vacancies the 2 owners of the group have said only employ those who have had the jab or agrees to get the jab.
"
Out of interest and without giving too many details away... Was there much effort needed to get all of them to take the jab? Or was it straight forward.? Quite a few carers are choosing not to aren't they.? 20 % I saw in a story... So you're lot getting to 100 % seems very good. |
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"out of 300 staff only seven said no but have since changed there mind why they realized they would not/may not be able to travel home (Philippines)so we are 100% now.
now we have job vacancies the 2 owners of the group have said only employ those who have had the jab or agrees to get the jab.
Out of interest and without giving too many details away... Was there much effort needed to get all of them to take the jab? Or was it straight forward.? Quite a few carers are choosing not to aren't they.? 20 % I saw in a story... So you're lot getting to 100 % seems very good. "
We’re all vaccinated and all we did was sent an email of dates round haha. Didn’t have to ask anyone.
These vaccines have done the same testing as usual, just had the worlds billions thrown at it which usually doesn’t happen
I think health care staff might take to the “no job no jab” concept easier though- it’s normal for them x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As a nurse. ..............I have had hep b/tetanus/bcg/mmr/ and chicken pox and a few more jabbed..before I can step 1 foot in my role.
Just how it is.. I want to work I have to accept this...
It's about keeping me safe and those around.. common sense really.
But I understand the concerns and choices |
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It's another standard vaccination requirement and certainly not the first vaccine that's needed for a job. It's a choice but we take, when we want to have a particular job, that we will satisfy the conditions. There's a personal benefit for the recipients too, so it's a win all around 
I don't know anyone who doesn't want it. |
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Personally I think everyone who can should have the jab ... it’s the societal sensible sensible thing to do and the only real way to get us back to any degree of normality currently.... oh by the way - proudly had mine on Monday!
From a business perspective, this a situation that revolves around emoloyers minimising risk and delivering a mandated duty of care to their employees and customers alike. It is no different to employers already insisting their employees already have certain jabs .... which has never caused issue before or wearing PPE where required... and I’m thinking things like hard hats, hi viz, hearing protection here. Not just masks and gowns!
Everyone had a choice here... do what and employer requires you to in order to stay safe and help keep others safe .... or don’t work for that employer!
R xx
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Personally I think everyone who can should have the jab ... it’s the societal sensible sensible thing to do and the only real way to get us back to any degree of normality currently.... oh by the way - proudly had mine on Monday!
From a business perspective, this a situation that revolves around emoloyers minimising risk and delivering a mandated duty of care to their employees and customers alike. It is no different to employers already insisting their employees already have certain jabs .... which has never caused issue before or wearing PPE where required... and I’m thinking things like hard hats, hi viz, hearing protection here. Not just masks and gowns!
Everyone had a choice here... do what and employer requires you to in order to stay safe and help keep others safe .... or don’t work for that employer!
R xx
"
Exactly , you don't like the conditions of the employment, find a different job |
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"If you have the jab, and it's not effective then what? ...
Then you'll have done your best. Fortunately this will be a rare position."
It will have been effective for 90% of the vulnerable so chances of some old dear dying greatly reduced. Also, the fact that it has worked for 90% of other people the chances of the care home worker being infected is significantly reduced. |
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"the fact that it has worked for 90% of other people the chances of the care home worker being infected is significantly reduced."
But in some care homes 30% of the staff have chosen not to be vaccinated |
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"What about the workers who are down the list and won't get the jab till October /November time will they be paid off for not having the jab when it's not there fault "
The conversation is about refusal not waiting times. I doubt an employer would sack someone if they hadn't been offered the jab. Also care workers were in Cohort 1 so will already have been offered it |
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"the fact that it has worked for 90% of other people the chances of the care home worker being infected is significantly reduced.
But in some care homes 30% of the staff have chosen not to be vaccinated"
I know this to be true from a relative who works in this industry and find it incredulous and dangerous. My own mum passed away a few years ago now, but lived in a Residential Home for a few years - the staff were absolutely awesome ... that is a vocation not a job! If she were still there I would be massively uncomfortable if I thought she was being out at risk by the choices of any of her carers or that the owners of the home were not taking EVERY precaution to keep her safe!
R xx |
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"the fact that it has worked for 90% of other people the chances of the care home worker being infected is significantly reduced.
But in some care homes 30% of the staff have chosen not to be vaccinated"
That's what I was referring to further up the thread... I guess / hope as the roll out goes further along and natural staff rotation happens that number will decrease and hopefully by winter will be a lot lower. |
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"If you have the jab, and it's not effective then what? ...
Then you'll have done your best. Fortunately this will be a rare position.
It will have been effective for 90% of the vulnerable so chances of some old dear dying greatly reduced. Also, the fact that it has worked for 90% of other people the chances of the care home worker being infected is significantly reduced."
Yes, but I think the question was "if you take the jab and it doesn't work in your body, should you lose your job?" No. It won't work in some people because nothing is perfect, but if you've tried by getting the jab, then that's that. |
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It makes sense.
Businesses want to protect themselves, who wants staff off for potentially months on sick pay, we know there is long covid and are still finding out long term problems people are having.
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Colchester |
There seems to be a lower uptake in some race groups. That's what they keep reporting. If they predominantly work in certain area like care homes then we might see a lower uptake by carers being reported. If they sack them then some will be up in arms about racial discrimination. You can't win.. |
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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke. |
It's been pointed many times already that existing contracts would have difficulty in sacking staff if they did not take a vaccine. If employers wanted to test in court they could. Currently, the Legal Opinion would be that they would fail.
Employers could however move people away from face-to-face roles in existing contracts.
New contract/s it would be entirely legal to demand that in order to do that job a vaccination would be necessary.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"out of 300 staff only seven said no but have since changed there mind why they realized they would not/may not be able to travel home (Philippines)so we are 100% now.
now we have job vacancies the 2 owners of the group have said only employ those who have had the jab or agrees to get the jab.
Out of interest and without giving too many details away... Was there much effort needed to get all of them to take the jab? Or was it straight forward.? Quite a few carers are choosing not to aren't they.? 20 % I saw in a story... So you're lot getting to 100 % seems very good. "
The news article i read today say some of the refusals may actually have stemmed from inability to get to the vaccine location, due to work or other problems at the time and this may come down further soon.
However, I 100% support vaccine passports and job losses due to refusal. Yes people are welcome to say no to the vaccination, as is their right/choice. But every decision has consequences. Take an anti social stance, expect anti social results. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why would it matter to someone who’s had the vaccine being in contact with someone who hasn’t ? Or can you still catch it if you’ve had it ? "
Yes you catch it but the effects of it should be a lot less harmful. But if there is not enough uptake of the vaccine the virus will still be around and it gives it a better chance of mutation to a variant that can get stronger to make the vaccine less effective. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why would it matter to someone who’s had the vaccine being in contact with someone who hasn’t ? Or can you still catch it if you’ve had it ?
No don't ask that question... Really.. Just no"
Too late  |
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"Why would it matter to someone who’s had the vaccine being in contact with someone who hasn’t ? Or can you still catch it if you’ve had it ? "
The vaccine doesn’t stop you catching it but it will lessen the symptoms meaning that it’s unlikely that you would then be seriously ill. |
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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke. |
"Why would it matter to someone who’s had the vaccine being in contact with someone who hasn’t ? Or can you still catch it if you’ve had it ? "
Yes. Just like Flu even if you have had a vaccine you can still catch - but people are hearing that and thinking then why should I have it at all then?
The simple message is that it helps you fight it better and reduces the risk of you becoming seriously ill from it by a very wide percentage. This in turn will protect others.
Every single person that has the vaccine also increases the Herd Immunity profile that at some point (between 75/85% some argue) the virus itself will fail to propagate to epidemic proportions.
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"Why would it matter to someone who’s had the vaccine being in contact with someone who hasn’t ? Or can you still catch it if you’ve had it ? "
One, it reduces the likelihood of catching it, it's being shown.
Two, I'm not looking to protect myself, I'm looking to protect vulnerable people (some of whom can't have the vaccine).
Three, unvaccinated people increase the chances of antigenic drift = more chance of variants, more lockdowns. |
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"We are being told we have to have them or we can't work "
they can't do that it's illegal & coercion under international human rights, they cannot FORCE or COERCE you into having a jab in return for a job & the fact they are doing it to everyone is force & coercion.
These PRIVATE companies need to be reported before it gets out of hand & they monopolies the sector in many ways. |
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"We are being told we have to have them or we can't work
they can't do that it's illegal & coercion under international human rights, they cannot FORCE or COERCE you into having a jab in return for a job & the fact they are doing it to everyone is force & coercion.
These PRIVATE companies need to be reported before it gets out of hand & they monopolies the sector in many ways. "
This is untrue. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I work in a care home and have had mine
Quite a proportion of the staff have not
It's their choice
They aren't treated any differently to those of us who have and there is no intention to treat them differently either. Care homes are already scrapin the barrel for minimum staffing levels, not many will have the luxury of being able to sack for example, a 3rd of their workforce |
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"I have just seen that the vaccination take up rate in Leeds is 93.97%.
Brilliant 
Is that 93.97 of those eligible to have it?
Yes the figure is take up rate for those offered it so far"
This is great to see.
Unfortunately I feel this figure may drop of considerably when they move down the age range.
So far most of those being offered the jab are either vulnerable or old ( I hear Granny Crumpet has had it).
This demographic is probably more likely to take up the offer. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I can't have a vax due to allergies. Discrimination at its finest. What I don't understand is. If I'm surrounded by people who have been vaccinated. If I haven't had one. Surely they are safe anyway?. Its me thats in danger isn't it?
Doesn't make sense. |
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"I can't have a vax due to allergies. Discrimination at its finest. What I don't understand is. If I'm surrounded by people who have been vaccinated. If I haven't had one. Surely they are safe anyway?. Its me thats in danger isn't it?
Doesn't make sense. "
I think the idea is for all those who can get the jab to get it, that way it helps to protect people such as yourself who can’t have it.
With regards to jobs I don’t think anyone is suggesting that people who can’t have it for medical reasons should be penalised.
But people who don’t get it simply because they don’t want it should be made aware that their legitimate choice could have legitimate consequences. |
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"Reports of a care home provider saying, no jab, no job..
Interesting times folks..
How is that any different to hepatitis B vaccinations?
Some people don't realise that the covid vaccines have find through exactly the same rigorous testing and approval procedures.
"
Im not anti vax, and will have it when they get to me, but i do worry they cant obviously know any long term effects. Im no scientist by any means, but dont vaccines usually be trialed over a long period before mass jabbing |
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By *uboCouple
over a year ago
East kilbride |
"Why would it matter to someone who’s had the vaccine being in contact with someone who hasn’t ? Or can you still catch it if you’ve had it ? "
No disrespect, but having to ask that question beggers belief. |
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Usually the trails and production of vaccines take so long mainly due to funding and the number of people that work on the project. In covids case the governments of the world rovided billions and alost every scientist in that field worked on it. There was a 79 yr old on radio today who said for her sins she wasn t going to have the jab due to all the rumours Nd false claims. She said as a result she did her own evidence gathering ovdr the last 2 months and had her jab a few days ago and was thankful she d had it.
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"Reports of a care home provider saying, no jab, no job..
Interesting times folks..
How is that any different to hepatitis B vaccinations?
Some people don't realise that the covid vaccines have find through exactly the same rigorous testing and approval procedures.
Im not anti vax, and will have it when they get to me, but i do worry they cant obviously know any long term effects. Im no scientist by any means, but dont vaccines usually be trialed over a long period before mass jabbing"
Nearly two weeks ago Paul Offit was on the virology podcast I listen to. He's a highly regarded vaccine expert. He said - obviously not cited and it's suggestive not proof - that he's never heard of a long term effect of a vaccine that hadn't emerged within a couple of months. We're well past six weeks now. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Reports of a care home provider saying, no jab, no job..
Interesting times folks..
"
Fair enough
Duty of care to other employees...
And residents of the care home |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why would it matter to someone who’s had the vaccine being in contact with someone who hasn’t ? Or can you still catch it if you’ve had it ?
No disrespect, but having to ask that question beggers belief."
How does it beggar belief?
Makes no sense. Even if I could have it and didn't. How would that endanger anyone else (if they're vaccinated)other than myself?
Ridiculous comment I'm sorry |
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"Reports of a care home provider saying, no jab, no job..
Interesting times folks..
How is that any different to hepatitis B vaccinations?
Some people don't realise that the covid vaccines have find through exactly the same rigorous testing and approval procedures.
Im not anti vax, and will have it when they get to me, but i do worry they cant obviously know any long term effects. Im no scientist by any means, but dont vaccines usually be trialed over a long period before mass jabbing"
They are trialled over a longer period of time because it takes a long time to get enough people to volunteer to a trial that will unlikely benefit themselves or their family. Covid, 30,000 standing at the door to get on the trial.
Most of the 10 years from lab to needle is spent getting people, waiting on the data, waiting on someone to review and approve, then some more red tape...
Of course, during that time, some longer term effects might crop up...Maybe.
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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago
atlantisEVOLUTION Swingers Club. Stoke. |
This morning From SkyNews . . .
Employers must have 'clear rationale' if they want new staff to have vaccine - minister.
Justice Secretary Robert Buckland, who has been the government's voice in media interviews this morning, has said employers such as care homes must have a "clear rationale" if they want to require new staff to have the coronavirus vaccination as a condition of employment.
Mr Buckland told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "Future contracts and contracts of employment are indeed matters between employers and employees.
"I think that where such conditions are imposed there needs to be a very clear rationale for them.
"In a care home, a closed environment where there are vulnerable residents, I would argue there does seem to be an obvious rationale.
"I think it will depend very much on each setting and the particular context. That is why I don't think it would be right to say there can be a blanket approach here because we need to go back to the fundamental fact that vaccines are not compulsory here in the UK."
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By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"If any of my loved ones need to live in a care home, I would not feel that they were safe of staff weren't vaccinated.... though there are a small number of people who cannot currently have any of the available jabs for medical reasons which is different.
There is no other valid reason not to get one.
It's common for people who work in hospitals to get hep B vaccinations. Travel to certain countries requires vaccination against various illnesses. Why is this different?"
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"It's delicate subject, people should be free to choose, have the jab or not have the jab, in the same way the people they care for should have the choice not to be put at risk by the people who are ment to protect them ... "
Only if they have the jab themselves- they're not at risk.
Go figure |
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"Just future contracts. Not sure they can force current employees to have a jab..."
Contracts of employment, conditions of service etc can be changed by giving I think it's 90 days notice..
Whilst most employers will want to consult with its employees etc and try to reach an agreement over changes it's not legally necessary..
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"Just future contracts. Not sure they can force current employees to have a jab...
Contracts of employment, conditions of service etc can be changed by giving I think it's 90 days notice..
Whilst most employers will want to consult with its employees etc and try to reach an agreement over changes it's not legally necessary..
"
I suspect it'll be brought through the courts. The last I read it'd be very difficult to do for existing contracts. But it's possible that the climate has changed. |
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"Just future contracts. Not sure they can force current employees to have a jab...
Contracts of employment, conditions of service etc can be changed by giving I think it's 90 days notice..
Whilst most employers will want to consult with its employees etc and try to reach an agreement over changes it's not legally necessary..
I suspect it'll be brought through the courts. The last I read it'd be very difficult to do for existing contracts. But it's possible that the climate has changed."
There's going to be challenges to some changes no doubt, it's a bit of a grey area I would think for many HR departments..
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"Just future contracts. Not sure they can force current employees to have a jab...
Contracts of employment, conditions of service etc can be changed by giving I think it's 90 days notice..
Whilst most employers will want to consult with its employees etc and try to reach an agreement over changes it's not legally necessary..
I suspect it'll be brought through the courts. The last I read it'd be very difficult to do for existing contracts. But it's possible that the climate has changed.
There's going to be challenges to some changes no doubt, it's a bit of a grey area I would think for many HR departments..
"
Yes. I read some legal commentary on it in December. I suspect the law hasn't changed, but the mood might have done (obviously the law is an instrument of people and all that).
The vaccine passport proposal/investigation will have bearing on it too. |
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"Makes me laugh how many people would happily have any vaccine that’s needed to go on holidays but make a big fuss about one to go to work lots of stupid people about lol
Exactly, all the mouthy anti-vaxers WILL quite easily drop their objections and priorities and decide, for their benefit, to have the vaccination to go on holiday.
"
I suspect that many of the vaccine hesitant will be swayed by this and other factors, including seeing widespread uptake without deleterious effects.
I suspect many who are talking big will get the jab if push came to shove.
I also suspect there'd be a hardcore actively breaking laws/policies or who'd sue. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"When u start working in a hospital u need 2 have hepatitis b vaccine and get check to be immune to other illnesses. Why is this different
Because HEP.B vaccine didn't take a mere 10 months to roll out to an entire planet of 7 Billion"
Yes, because the vaccine manufactured with the entire worlds eyes and being rolled out to everyone is going to be less scrutinised than one dished out to small proportion of the population.... |
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No, its not. That is law internationally.
Granted usually it isn't an issue as very few people work in the high risk jobs that really do require it i.e. lab work (hep etc)
Which the staff know due to their knowledge & take them willingly.
The issue now is that the covid is wide spread (no denying that) therefore the idea that it is okay to force or coerce someone into taking the jab through fear (of loosing job, loosing ability to go to places like cinema, pub or even abroad) this is not okay, its not even legal under so many laws for any medical treatment or even to control another human being through fear.
The vast majority that cant get it will be of the disabled category so they are already struggling to get jobs just through lack of understanding of condition & business unwillingness to work to strengths instead of weaknesses, the already (especially physically disabled) omitted from so many areas of life (stimulation issues, access issues etc) that y'all take for granted cos you can go do whatever, right...you know it no other way.
If this gets pushed upon those above are the people who will nit be able to earn, cannot go out like others can & are basically forced out of society even more than they have been previously, all through no fault of their own.
There is real & serious discrimatory ramifications with things like this, be careful what you wish for. W
Btw just to be clear i have nothing against the vaccine nor those who take it.
I'm taking legal & social implications that these will cause if allowed, the wider effects that will be taken advantage of if we are not very very careful.  |
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"No, its not. That is law internationally.
Granted usually it isn't an issue as very few people work in the high risk jobs that really do require it i.e. lab work (hep etc)
Which the staff know due to their knowledge & take them willingly.
The issue now is that the covid is wide spread (no denying that) therefore the idea that it is okay to force or coerce someone into taking the jab through fear (of loosing job, loosing ability to go to places like cinema, pub or even abroad) this is not okay, its not even legal under so many laws for any medical treatment or even to control another human being through fear.
The vast majority that cant get it will be of the disabled category so they are already struggling to get jobs just through lack of understanding of condition & business unwillingness to work to strengths instead of weaknesses, the already (especially physically disabled) omitted from so many areas of life (stimulation issues, access issues etc) that y'all take for granted cos you can go do whatever, right...you know it no other way.
If this gets pushed upon those above are the people who will nit be able to earn, cannot go out like others can & are basically forced out of society even more than they have been previously, all through no fault of their own.
There is real & serious discrimatory ramifications with things like this, be careful what you wish for. W
Btw just to be clear i have nothing against the vaccine nor those who take it.
I'm taking legal & social implications that these will cause if allowed, the wider effects that will be taken advantage of if we are not very very careful. "
What's the law you're relying on?
Because vaccine mandates - as in the government says you must - exist. Not in the UK. It's not being proposed in the UK. But "international law says" is clearly and demonstrably wrong. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Some countries will insist on being vaccinated to access facilities in their domain, it is already happening. Although the UK government is resisting compulsory vaccination I think it will come about in one form or another whether it be by government legislation or a buisness that requires proof of vaccination before using their services. This will bring the BAME society and our totally out of touch with reality university woke society into line and get vaccinated to protect others in our society. I do not have any time for the anti vaccine halfwits. Vaccination programmes throughout the last decades have saved million of lives. The anti vaccination covididiots could cost million of lives. |
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"Some countries will insist on being vaccinated to access facilities in their domain, it is already happening. Although the UK government is resisting compulsory vaccination I think it will come about in one form or another whether it be by government legislation or a buisness that requires proof of vaccination before using their services. This will bring the BAME society and our totally out of touch with reality university woke society into line and get vaccinated to protect others in our society. I do not have any time for the anti vaccine halfwits. Vaccination programmes throughout the last decades have saved million of lives. The anti vaccination covididiots could cost million of lives. "
Antivaxxers span the political spectrum.
Yours, a woke snowflake virtue signalling SJW who gets all her jabs and the optional ones too, because protecting people is important |
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Mandates are not forced. Participant take up freely & their freedoms are not at liberty if they do not.
Simple freedoms:
Freedoms to choose how to earn a living
Freedom to choose where to live
Freedom to live life
Are you forgetting the majority of our economies are privately ran?
That need to be ruled by laws already due to taking advantage & force.
Examples:
min wage - forced by law..why cos business wouldnt pay properly otherwise.... still dont in alot of cases.
Disabled/race/gender - forced by laws...why because otherwise businesses wouldnt bother, too much hassle & money, simpler & easier not to
Working hours - forced by law...why otherwise businesses would have some staff working constantly with little rest.
Even uber (& all the other income tax, pension & ni dodging businesses) has been deem as unlawful in their practices in terms of how they treat staff, sick pay, holiday pay.
Zero hrs & self employed both mean the employee misses out on benefits & the company pays into none of the 3 mentioned above = more profit, screw the workers.
Do you have any idea the amount of tribunials go on everyday through private companies trying to flout laws in ways of profit.
This will be no different.
Bear in mind we are no longer protected by eu employment laws or human rights...its essentially a blank page...be careful who writes it.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Some countries will insist on being vaccinated to access facilities in their domain, it is already happening. Although the UK government is resisting compulsory vaccination I think it will come about in one form or another whether it be by government legislation or a buisness that requires proof of vaccination before using their services. This will bring the BAME society and our totally out of touch with reality university woke society into line and get vaccinated to protect others in our society. I do not have any time for the anti vaccine halfwits. Vaccination programmes throughout the last decades have saved million of lives. The anti vaccination covididiots could cost million of lives.
Antivaxxers span the political spectrum.
Yours, a woke snowflake virtue signalling SJW who gets all her jabs and the optional ones too, because protecting people is important "
It does but according to data it seems to be BAME and the younger generation society that are resisting the vaccine. The BAME society whom a lot of might need reassured and educated about the benefits of it I can excuse, but this is such a fucked up world where people (usually your university people) think 'their' rights are sacremont as against others are selfish and dangerous |
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"Mandates are not forced. Participant take up freely & their freedoms are not at liberty if they do not.
Simple freedoms:
Freedoms to choose how to earn a living
Freedom to choose where to live
Freedom to live life
Are you forgetting the majority of our economies are privately ran?
That need to be ruled by laws already due to taking advantage & force.
Examples:
min wage - forced by law..why cos business wouldnt pay properly otherwise.... still dont in alot of cases.
Disabled/race/gender - forced by laws...why because otherwise businesses wouldnt bother, too much hassle & money, simpler & easier not to
Working hours - forced by law...why otherwise businesses would have some staff working constantly with little rest.
Even uber (& all the other income tax, pension & ni dodging businesses) has been deem as unlawful in their practices in terms of how they treat staff, sick pay, holiday pay.
Zero hrs & self employed both mean the employee misses out on benefits & the company pays into none of the 3 mentioned above = more profit, screw the workers.
Do you have any idea the amount of tribunials go on everyday through private companies trying to flout laws in ways of profit.
This will be no different.
Bear in mind we are no longer protected by eu employment laws or human rights...its essentially a blank page...be careful who writes it.
"
... So what is the law that stops employers from requiring vaccines, what is the law that stops businesses preventing use of their services to the unvaccinated?
Mandates are stronger than what's being proposed, and you are consistently arguing that it's illegal under international law.
If so, which law? Please and thank you. |
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And we're still members of the European Court of Human Rights. Nothing to do with the EU.
(And even if it were, the Good Friday agreement makes leaving the EHCR... challenging or impossible without ceding Northern Ireland to Ireland) |
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"Makes me laugh how many people would happily have any vaccine that’s needed to go on holidays but make a big fuss about one to go to work lots of stupid people about lol
Exactly, all the mouthy anti-vaxers WILL quite easily drop their objections and priorities and decide, for their benefit, to have the vaccination to go on holiday.
"
So make it a condition of overseas travel.... And that part will be covered. Its going to take time but its straight forward enough really. |
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"No, its not. That is law internationally.
Granted usually it isn't an issue as very few people work in the high risk jobs that really do require it i.e. lab work (hep etc)
Which the staff know due to their knowledge & take them willingly.
The issue now is that the covid is wide spread (no denying that) therefore the idea that it is okay to force or coerce someone into taking the jab through fear (of loosing job, loosing ability to go to places like cinema, pub or even abroad) this is not okay, its not even legal under so many laws for any medical treatment or even to control another human being through fear.
The vast majority that cant get it will be of the disabled category so they are already struggling to get jobs just through lack of understanding of condition & business unwillingness to work to strengths instead of weaknesses, the already (especially physically disabled) omitted from so many areas of life (stimulation issues, access issues etc) that y'all take for granted cos you can go do whatever, right...you know it no other way.
If this gets pushed upon those above are the people who will nit be able to earn, cannot go out like others can & are basically forced out of society even more than they have been previously, all through no fault of their own.
There is real & serious discrimatory ramifications with things like this, be careful what you wish for. W
Btw just to be clear i have nothing against the vaccine nor those who take it.
I'm taking legal & social implications that these will cause if allowed, the wider effects that will be taken advantage of if we are not very very careful. "
Not sure I understand what you're saying re disabled.? They have the same opportunity to be vacci ated and remove the obstacle. Or are you suggesting that disabled people are for whatever reason less likely to choose to be vaccinated?
I agree with being careful what you wish for but that point can be made on both sides of the argument. And sometimes you have to mandate things for the public good. This may very well be one of them... |
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"Some countries will insist on being vaccinated to access facilities in their domain, it is already happening. Although the UK government is resisting compulsory vaccination I think it will come about in one form or another whether it be by government legislation or a buisness that requires proof of vaccination before using their services. This will bring the BAME society and our totally out of touch with reality university woke society into line and get vaccinated to protect others in our society. I do not have any time for the anti vaccine halfwits. Vaccination programmes throughout the last decades have saved million of lives. The anti vaccination covididiots could cost million of lives. "
This govt have been so lily livered and the lack of leadership has cost lives and made it worse and presented people with choices that they really should not have had. Sometimes a hard line is needed. This is one of them. Do it and move on. |
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"Mandates are not forced. Participant take up freely & their freedoms are not at liberty if they do not.
Simple freedoms:
Freedoms to choose how to earn a living
Freedom to choose where to live
Freedom to live life
Are you forgetting the majority of our economies are privately ran?
That need to be ruled by laws already due to taking advantage & force.
Examples:
min wage - forced by law..why cos business wouldnt pay properly otherwise.... still dont in alot of cases.
Disabled/race/gender - forced by laws...why because otherwise businesses wouldnt bother, too much hassle & money, simpler & easier not to
Working hours - forced by law...why otherwise businesses would have some staff working constantly with little rest.
Even uber (& all the other income tax, pension & ni dodging businesses) has been deem as unlawful in their practices in terms of how they treat staff, sick pay, holiday pay.
Zero hrs & self employed both mean the employee misses out on benefits & the company pays into none of the 3 mentioned above = more profit, screw the workers.
Do you have any idea the amount of tribunials go on everyday through private companies trying to flout laws in ways of profit.
This will be no different.
Bear in mind we are no longer protected by eu employment laws or human rights...its essentially a blank page...be careful who writes it.
"
Some good comments. But I'm puzzled by your mentioning of private firms... A lot. Is it only private enterprises who are subject to industrial tribunals? |
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"Some countries will insist on being vaccinated to access facilities in their domain, it is already happening. Although the UK government is resisting compulsory vaccination I think it will come about in one form or another whether it be by government legislation or a buisness that requires proof of vaccination before using their services. This will bring the BAME society and our totally out of touch with reality university woke society into line and get vaccinated to protect others in our society. I do not have any time for the anti vaccine halfwits. Vaccination programmes throughout the last decades have saved million of lives. The anti vaccination covididiots could cost million of lives.
This govt have been so lily livered and the lack of leadership has cost lives and made it worse and presented people with choices that they really should not have had. Sometimes a hard line is needed. This is one of them. Do it and move on. "
I suspect - despite UK cultural norms having been different - that "vaccine passports are our key to freedom" will be palatable to most of the public. And for businesses, it'll probably reduce their risk, which in turn will be palatable to insurers |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This govt have spent a year with the message... We trust to people to do what is right for the country... Fucking nutters. Show some god damned leadership. People will moan but they are anyway. "
the UK will always have governments unwilling to force people to do things and that's is a good freedom choice. It will be outside influences that determine the uptake of a vaccination. When buisnesses withdraw entry to their services, flights, hotels, nightclubs, reastauraunts, pubs and probably so many more, the anti vaccine crew will quickly fall into line, ant to those who don't I'm glad I will never meet you..
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"This govt have spent a year with the message... We trust to people to do what is right for the country... Fucking nutters. Show some god damned leadership. People will moan but they are anyway. "
I think some people can be trusted, but obviously not - at least under systems we've had so far - enough. |
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Our company is the same.
We are a business consultancy firm, everyone was told that if you refuse the jab, you won't be welcome in the company.
Considering we cover employment law, the company will be covered legally. |
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"Our company is the same.
We are a business consultancy firm, everyone was told that if you refuse the jab, you won't be welcome in the company.
Considering we cover employment law, the company will be covered legally. "
I can't post links but I think you'll find under international human rights!
you cannot do this, it is coercion & therefore force under that premise of this or poverty & non existence in society, also legally the people giving your staff the jabs knowingly under these terms are doing so illegally, as it is illegal to administer medical treatments under those settings, period.
both the company & vaccinator are liable legally.
problem is it takes someone bold enough to challenge it in court, which is not easy with companies having greater access to funds for lawyers, court fees etc.
even the courts are monopolized in favour of those with money, so the small many worker is again at the mercy of the few, who want control.
as for disabled...there are some who cannot have the vaccine as it has not been tested on similar persons and may cause additional complications, others may be due to medications, they are the group far more likely to have complications with such things.
you are just presuming everyone can have every vaccine which is not the case at all in the real world. |
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International courts are way above UK courts, so those laws have greater standing than any made in a single country.
much in the same way even with devolution in the 4 nations of the UK, the UK government is still above them all.
this is the hierarchy of law.
Many just flout the law & get let away with it....Jeez Nicola sturgeon has the courts in her pockets & so many other areas.
Sure, I'll trust big wigs to have my best interests at heart over their own...not, it may look like it but it is all just cloak & veil.
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in terms of insurance there is no way an employee or person/s can sue a company or even another person/s for catching a virus on any grounds, it is classed as an act of god and the source cannot be proven so again your rhetoric that its for the companies benefit i.e insurance is complete nonsense.
A mandatory vaccine is not under a companies power to claim as reasonable risk prevention. (NHS ARE PUBLIC & STILL HAVE CHOICE)
I know this as I've had a long conversation with my doc over anti bodies tests as we suspect it was in our house feb last year direct from china almost due to son's workplace & collogues movements...they cannot test confirm not deny at what point or from what source I contracted covid should I have anti bodies present.
Your company is acting illegally. do you what to whistle blow or will I? |
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"You cant blame the care home providers would you like your relative being treated by someone who was not vaccinated "
no, actually you can't because you cannot prove it was transmitted by that person. That's pitch fork fear stuff, blaming 1 person or a group of people (think witches with herbs..oh what medicinal knowledge we lost to that) just cos they didn't chose the same as you did or are different to you.
a vaccinated person can still carry and transmit the virus as a vaccine is not 100%...so absolutely no case there.
even if a employee is coughing yoyu couldn't prove it just came from them alone. it is impossible to prove therefore has no grounds in court. |
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example but a parasite not too different on means of transfer tbh.
I had 2 horses, one of which I spotted lice on, so I treated both appropriately and kept an eye on them to check for reoccurrences.
few months later I moved yards with one pony (the other was an unsuitably matched loan horse your wondering).
I quarantined for 2 weeks (whole separate stable block, only me in & out no mixing) and retreated just incase I'd missed something. Soon after one of the other horse got lice, I was blamed and absolutely and utterly vilified despite doing exactly what I should have done to limit risk.
problem is these lice can live on other things not just horses, there are fund in trees....so I was bullied and vilified for something that was not even me, it could not have been my pony logically, since he had 4 treatments of highly potent chemicals.
Covid can live on surfaces too remember, that source again is untraceable & therefore unprovable.
again squashed any businesses attempt to claim they are covering themselves against legal cases or work force safety by force or coercion of vaccine in lieu of earning a living or face poverty, tarring & exclusion. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You cant blame the care home providers would you like your relative being treated by someone who was not vaccinated
no, actually you can't because you cannot prove it was transmitted by that person. That's pitch fork fear stuff, blaming 1 person or a group of people (think witches with herbs..oh what medicinal knowledge we lost to that) just cos they didn't chose the same as you did or are different to you.
a vaccinated person can still carry and transmit the virus as a vaccine is not 100%...so absolutely no case there.
even if a employee is coughing yoyu couldn't prove it just came from them alone. it is impossible to prove therefore has no grounds in court. "
Its not 100% no so if everyone that can have the vaccine does then it negates the risk to others
There is new data coming out all the time including yesterday that is showing it is exceptionally likely that the vaccines do mitigate spread quite considerably.
It's really simple if you work in high risk environment it is your responsibility to make sure people around you are safe, If an employer decides they only want to employ people that have chosen to take the vaccine then I can't blame them.
We have had this discussion before your right to choose not to have the vaccine does not override the right of your employer to say you cannot work their. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Private care home staff have few rights and are dispensable as far as the owners are concerned.
It's a money making machine and the word 'care' is actually ironic.
The picture the owners like to paint to the residents families is usually very different to the reality.
There is usually a high staff turnover and agency staff are used regularly.
Agency staff are usually from all over the world and live in shared accommodations or environments where the spread of Covid could be high.
In a way I don't blame the owners for making a no jab no job rule.
But it is coercive and a violation of human rights.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Our company is the same.
We are a business consultancy firm, everyone was told that if you refuse the jab, you won't be welcome in the company.
Considering we cover employment law, the company will be covered legally.
I can't post links but I think you'll find under international human rights!
you cannot do this, it is coercion & therefore force under that premise of this or poverty & non existence in society, also legally the people giving your staff the jabs knowingly under these terms are doing so illegally, as it is illegal to administer medical treatments under those settings, period.
both the company & vaccinator are liable legally.
problem is it takes someone bold enough to challenge it in court, which is not easy with companies having greater access to funds for lawyers, court fees etc.
even the courts are monopolized in favour of those with money, so the small many worker is again at the mercy of the few, who want control.
as for disabled...there are some who cannot have the vaccine as it has not been tested on similar persons and may cause additional complications, others may be due to medications, they are the group far more likely to have complications with such things.
you are just presuming everyone can have every vaccine which is not the case at all in the real world."
You are wrong again because this already exists we have had this discussion too and it was proved to you.
Lots of employers already require their staff to have certain vaccines including the hep c&b, Lots of employers also require you to have a medical and lots have a morality clause in their contracts.
If an employer chooses not to employ you because you do not fit the requirements that they have set out that are perfectly reasonable then you don't have a leg to stand on legally.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Our company is the same.
We are a business consultancy firm, everyone was told that if you refuse the jab, you won't be welcome in the company.
Considering we cover employment law, the company will be covered legally.
I can't post links but I think you'll find under international human rights!
you cannot do this, it is coercion & therefore force under that premise of this or poverty & non existence in society, also legally the people giving your staff the jabs knowingly under these terms are doing so illegally, as it is illegal to administer medical treatments under those settings, period.
both the company & vaccinator are liable legally.
problem is it takes someone bold enough to challenge it in court, which is not easy with companies having greater access to funds for lawyers, court fees etc.
even the courts are monopolized in favour of those with money, so the small many worker is again at the mercy of the few, who want control.
as for disabled...there are some who cannot have the vaccine as it has not been tested on similar persons and may cause additional complications, others may be due to medications, they are the group far more likely to have complications with such things.
you are just presuming everyone can have every vaccine which is not the case at all in the real world.
You are wrong again because this already exists we have had this discussion too and it was proved to you.
Lots of employers already require their staff to have certain vaccines including the hep c&b, Lots of employers also require you to have a medical and lots have a morality clause in their contracts.
If an employer chooses not to employ you because you do not fit the requirements that they have set out that are perfectly reasonable then you don't have a leg to stand on legally.
"
It can become a requirement to gain new employment. It cannot be made compulsory by existing permanent employees, breaches human rights and contractual obligations |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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But Rachel,
If she had a 90% effective vaccine, wouldn't she be protected?
In this period....many of the principles that were know and live by and are being eroded permanently as we are ideologically being pitted against each other.
This is from the NHS constitution:
You have the right to accept or refuse treatment that is offered to you, and not to be given any physical examination or treatment unless you have given valid consent.
If someone choses to refuse to take the vaccine, why are people who take it afraid of their choice, in a way that it takes away their choice?
No vaccine: no freedom! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"But Rachel,
If she had a 90% effective vaccine, wouldn't she be protected?
In this period....many of the principles that were know and live by and are being eroded permanently as we are ideologically being pitted against each other.
This is from the NHS constitution:
You have the right to accept or refuse treatment that is offered to you, and not to be given any physical examination or treatment unless you have given valid consent.
If someone choses to refuse to take the vaccine, why are people who take it afraid of their choice, in a way that it takes away their choice?
No vaccine: no freedom! "
90% isn’t protect, it’s a big defence, but defences can be broken through.
Human rights make the persons choice legally theirs to do what the decide.
Personally I think it’s ridiculous not to have it.
But no one can have their contact terminated for having or in this case not having it |
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Emplyers may not be able to terminate employees for not having it but can make things awkward for them ie moving them to non contact roles ie carers case perminantly cleaning comodes or washing soiled bedding or even changing shifts to perm nights.
It is then down to the employee if they stick it out. Or alternatively sack and rehire under new contracts( change company name slightly so different employer) |
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By *orduneCouple
over a year ago
darvel |
A friend of mine caught the virus from a care worker that was attending his father in law at home . She passed it on to the father in law his brother and sister in law and himself .The poor health worker was later diagnosed and she was the one that passed it on the father in law died with it as well as other probs the in-laws got mild dose and are fine , my friend got it bad but is recovering but taking along time to build up his strength . My point this is not a blame game but we all have a duty to each other to keep us safe . |
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"A friend of mine caught the virus from a care worker that was attending his father in law at home . She passed it on to the father in law his brother and sister in law and himself .The poor health worker was later diagnosed and she was the one that passed it on the father in law died with it as well as other probs the in-laws got mild dose and are fine , my friend got it bad but is recovering but taking along time to build up his strength . My point this is not a blame game but we all have a duty to each other to keep us safe . "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Emplyers may not be able to terminate employees for not having it but can make things awkward for them ie moving them to non contact roles ie carers case perminantly cleaning comodes or washing soiled bedding or even changing shifts to perm nights.
It is then down to the employee if they stick it out. Or alternatively sack and rehire under new contracts( change company name slightly so different employer)"
This is not happening (at least not en mass)
All non vaccinated staff in our company are carrying out their hands on roles as normal and this isn't going to change |
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"Our company is the same.
We are a business consultancy firm, everyone was told that if you refuse the jab, you won't be welcome in the company.
Considering we cover employment law, the company will be covered legally.
I can't post links but I think you'll find under international human rights!
you cannot do this, it is coercion & therefore force under that premise of this or poverty & non existence in society, also legally the people giving your staff the jabs knowingly under these terms are doing so illegally, as it is illegal to administer medical treatments under those settings, period.
both the company & vaccinator are liable legally.
problem is it takes someone bold enough to challenge it in court, which is not easy with companies having greater access to funds for lawyers, court fees etc.
even the courts are monopolized in favour of those with money, so the small many worker is again at the mercy of the few, who want control.
as for disabled...there are some who cannot have the vaccine as it has not been tested on similar persons and may cause additional complications, others may be due to medications, they are the group far more likely to have complications with such things.
you are just presuming everyone can have every vaccine which is not the case at all in the real world."
I've asked you to cite the law several times.
Given that the EHCR allows vaccine mandates, and other countries outside the EHCR use them... I'm going with no. |
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"Our company is the same.
We are a business consultancy firm, everyone was told that if you refuse the jab, you won't be welcome in the company.
Considering we cover employment law, the company will be covered legally.
I can't post links but I think you'll find under international human rights!
you cannot do this, it is coercion & therefore force under that premise of this or poverty & non existence in society, also legally the people giving your staff the jabs knowingly under these terms are doing so illegally, as it is illegal to administer medical treatments under those settings, period.
both the company & vaccinator are liable legally.
problem is it takes someone bold enough to challenge it in court, which is not easy with companies having greater access to funds for lawyers, court fees etc.
even the courts are monopolized in favour of those with money, so the small many worker is again at the mercy of the few, who want control.
as for disabled...there are some who cannot have the vaccine as it has not been tested on similar persons and may cause additional complications, others may be due to medications, they are the group far more likely to have complications with such things.
you are just presuming everyone can have every vaccine which is not the case at all in the real world.
You are wrong again because this already exists we have had this discussion too and it was proved to you.
Lots of employers already require their staff to have certain vaccines including the hep c&b, Lots of employers also require you to have a medical and lots have a morality clause in their contracts.
If an employer chooses not to employ you because you do not fit the requirements that they have set out that are perfectly reasonable then you don't have a leg to stand on legally.
It can become a requirement to gain new employment. It cannot be made compulsory by existing permanent employees, breaches human rights and contractual obligations "
What human rights does it breach and in which court? |
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Lots of comments arguing and stating about a breach of individuals civil rights, unlawful etc. etc.
Okay , I understand that...but its a simple question and that's why not have a vaccination?
If the answer is simply because 'you don't want it or I won't be told what to do' then you have to admit and accept that you and others of the same ilk with the same stubborn negative attitude, will be more than likely responsible for this pandemic continuing with all the hardships and losses we've entailed over the last year continuing.
If you can live with that on your conscience then you're a stronger person than me. |
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Colchester |
There are always going to be a body of people who insist on being right and justify it under a law...
These are the people usually in boundary disputes over a centimetre, insist on exercising their right of way overs footpaths long fallen out of use, argue over cyclists on roads etc etc
They are usually right but dull as ditchwater....
There was once talk of the NHS not treating smokers and clinically obese people. How about the NHS not treating those who refuse the vaccine... |
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"There are always going to be a body of people who insist on being right and justify it under a law...
These are the people usually in boundary disputes over a centimetre, insist on exercising their right of way overs footpaths long fallen out of use, argue over cyclists on roads etc etc
They are usually right but dull as ditchwater....
There was once talk of the NHS not treating smokers and clinically obese people. How about the NHS not treating those who refuse the vaccine..."
No. Absolutely not. |
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Colchester |
"There are always going to be a body of people who insist on being right and justify it under a law...
These are the people usually in boundary disputes over a centimetre, insist on exercising their right of way overs footpaths long fallen out of use, argue over cyclists on roads etc etc
They are usually right but dull as ditchwater....
There was once talk of the NHS not treating smokers and clinically obese people. How about the NHS not treating those who refuse the vaccine...
No. Absolutely not."
Thank you swing. For once we agree on something. Absolutely not treating them is the right thing to do.... |
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"There are always going to be a body of people who insist on being right and justify it under a law...
These are the people usually in boundary disputes over a centimetre, insist on exercising their right of way overs footpaths long fallen out of use, argue over cyclists on roads etc etc
They are usually right but dull as ditchwater....
There was once talk of the NHS not treating smokers and clinically obese people. How about the NHS not treating those who refuse the vaccine...
No. Absolutely not.
Thank you swing. For once we agree on something. Absolutely not treating them is the right thing to do...."
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Colchester |
"There are always going to be a body of people who insist on being right and justify it under a law...
These are the people usually in boundary disputes over a centimetre, insist on exercising their right of way overs footpaths long fallen out of use, argue over cyclists on roads etc etc
They are usually right but dull as ditchwater....
There was once talk of the NHS not treating smokers and clinically obese people. How about the NHS not treating those who refuse the vaccine...
No. Absolutely not.
Thank you swing. For once we agree on something. Absolutely not treating them is the right thing to do....
"
 |
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"We are being told we have to have them or we can't work
they can't do that it's illegal & coercion under international human rights, they cannot FORCE or COERCE you into having a jab in return for a job & the fact they are doing it to everyone is force & coercion.
These PRIVATE companies need to be reported before it gets out of hand & they monopolies the sector in many ways. "
What Article of HR do you refer? |
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Colchester |
"We are being told we have to have them or we can't work
they can't do that it's illegal & coercion under international human rights, they cannot FORCE or COERCE you into having a jab in return for a job & the fact they are doing it to everyone is force & coercion.
These PRIVATE companies need to be reported before it gets out of hand & they monopolies the sector in many ways.
What Article of HR do you refer?"
People often quote Human Rights and fair play. Do we balance that against the rights of the care home inmates.?
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Current thinking in the UK from some of the top legal bods is that employers have the right to make vaccination compulsory for new employees.
They're quite sceptical about applying the condition to existing employees, and discipline of existing employees who decline. A top lawyer was on telly Thursday saying we'd need a test case to be sure, but he felt it would be difficult to insist existing employees are jabbed. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
I cannot see how this could come into effect until the vast majority of working age people had been offered a vaccine? In fact arguably 100% of working age people will have needed to have been offered a vaccine otherwise it would surely be discriminatory? |
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"I cannot see how this could come into effect until the vast majority of working age people had been offered a vaccine? In fact arguably 100% of working age people will have needed to have been offered a vaccine otherwise it would surely be discriminatory?"
I don't think anyone is saying otherwise |
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I think the health and safety at work act and also employers duty of care may out trump peoples so called human rights. If i was to turn up at work perminantly d*unk and my employer sacked me would that be against my human rights to be a pisshead or the health and safety of my fellow employees and a duty of care by my employer ?
If an employer knowingly allowed me to drive d*unk or overmedicated and i caused an accident they would be equally liable. So if an employee refused the jab but infected a whole workforce or customers and the employer knew they also would be liable under the duty of care act for the rest of their staff and customers. That is why i think airlines are going to insist on proof of jab or test results until you are jabbed before you will be allowed to travel also large venues may ask for proof before attending a concert festival or even football match.
Where there is blame there is a claim ! |
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Healthcare and NHS staff and anybody working in that environment need to have the vaccine they are there to protect the patient and care for the patient there needs need to come before that of the staff if they are not willing to have a vaccine don’t work in that environment |
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By *JB1954Man
over a year ago
Reading |
"I think the health and safety at work act and also employers duty of care may out trump peoples so called human rights. If i was to turn up at work perminantly d*unk and my employer sacked me would that be against my human rights to be a pisshead or the health and safety of my fellow employees and a duty of care by my employer ?
If an employer knowingly allowed me to drive d*unk or overmedicated and i caused an accident they would be equally liable. So if an employee refused the jab but infected a whole workforce or customers and the employer knew they also would be liable under the duty of care act for the rest of their staff and customers. That is why i think airlines are going to insist on proof of jab or test results until you are jabbed before you will be allowed to travel also large venues may ask for proof before attending a concert festival or even football match.
Where there is blame there is a claim !"
I replied to in another thread. Company I used to work for brought in with Union not objecting a drug and drink spot testing. Drink limit under UK limit. So could drive to work , get stopped by police and pass breathalyser. Yet fail at work and lose job. Drugs you had to declare if taking and prove, if fail that doctor had prescribed. So covid jab could be come part of company requirements for employment if insurance companies insist. |
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"In Leeds it is 93.97 %
Or
Six percent refuse the jab"
No. Also included in the non-takeup figure are people who can't have the jab because they are taking other medication or are ill on the day of their appointment. |
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By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago
Colchester |
"In Leeds it is 93.97 %
Or
Six percent refuse the jab
No. Also included in the non-takeup figure are people who can't have the jab because they are taking other medication or are ill on the day of their appointment. "
Where is the source of these figures please ? |
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"I think the health and safety at work act and also employers duty of care may out trump peoples so called human rights. If i was to turn up at work perminantly d*unk and my employer sacked me would that be against my human rights to be a pisshead or the health and safety of my fellow employees and a duty of care by my employer ?
If an employer knowingly allowed me to drive d*unk or overmedicated and i caused an accident they would be equally liable. So if an employee refused the jab but infected a whole workforce or customers and the employer knew they also would be liable under the duty of care act for the rest of their staff and customers. That is why i think airlines are going to insist on proof of jab or test results until you are jabbed before you will be allowed to travel also large venues may ask for proof before attending a concert festival or even football match.
Where there is blame there is a claim !
I replied to in another thread. Company I used to work for brought in with Union not objecting a drug and drink spot testing. Drink limit under UK limit. So could drive to work , get stopped by police and pass breathalyser. Yet fail at work and lose job. Drugs you had to declare if taking and prove, if fail that doctor had prescribed. So covid jab could be come part of company requirements for employment if insurance companies insist. "
Drink & drugs are not in the same category as a virus...no where near it, drink & drug use (even if an addiction) is a choice & operating heavy machinery or driving is obvious risk as abilities to move, think & react are impaired.
Viruses of any kind are not choice to catch, transmit, get ill from nor die from.
As said previously, the vaccine uptake is high, there is no need to force or coerce and as another said the working age population has not even been offered it yet so all grounds for forcing a vaccine is just ballocks & purely control.
Everyone has the right to earn a living & we already see businesses discrimating in such ways that are hard to prove, i.e if you put a disbility or race on an application form...you cannot prove or disprove that that is the reason, but those affected by such things know that's why...i can see the difference between mentioning my adhd or not, even at interview & even when occupational health have said that i qualify under the equalities act have i still been discrimated against through lack of understanding & that goes all the way to the tribunal courts (especially with invisible disabilities).
Even under health & safety laws yes, it may very well protect the work force, machines of all kinds are not comparable nor are accidents...those are of a different category all together from viruses, parasites & bacterias...which no work place (unless a lab, for obvious reasons..i.e high risk, high control area) can't prevent an employee from getting any virus, parasite or bacteria entirely & as said even with vaccines, they are not 100%.
even if everyone got the vaccine (if everyone could) there will still be cases that arise, why? because nature evolves and these are living beings themselves & due to being microbes they can evolve at a much faster rate, its the same reason vaccines are updated every year.
We will still see deaths relating directly or indirectly to covid. |
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