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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Kudos to Governor Desantis, who's proved himself as a visionary leader.
The sky never fell in did it, he took the unconventional path with undoubted risk but Florida is doing fantastic.
Schools open, economy is doing well ect.
Compared to Florida, 38 other states rank higher for per-capita COVID-19 mortality among seniors 65 and older.
 |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Kudos to Governor Desantis, who's proved himself as a visionary leader.
The sky never fell in did it, he took the unconventional path with undoubted risk but Florida is doing fantastic.
Schools open, economy is doing well ect.
Compared to Florida, 38 other states rank higher for per-capita COVID-19 mortality among seniors 65 and older.
"
Basically lockdowns didn't mitigate.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Kudos to Governor Desantis, who's proved himself as a visionary leader.
The sky never fell in did it, he took the unconventional path with undoubted risk but Florida is doing fantastic.
Schools open, economy is doing well ect.
Compared to Florida, 38 other states rank higher for per-capita COVID-19 mortality among seniors 65 and older.
Basically lockdowns didn't mitigate.
"
Desantis sought counsel from the other guys, Professor Martin Kulldorff, Michael Levitt and Jay Bhattacharya.
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By *ovelybumCouple
over a year ago
Tunbridge Wells |
"Kudos to Governor Desantis, who's proved himself as a visionary leader.
The sky never fell in did it, he took the unconventional path with undoubted risk but Florida is doing fantastic.
Schools open, economy is doing well ect.
Compared to Florida, 38 other states rank higher for per-capita COVID-19 mortality among seniors 65 and older.
Basically lockdowns didn't mitigate.
"
Lockdowns will be remembered as the biggest disaster in the modern history.
Waiting to be shot down...
|
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By *ik MMan
over a year ago
Lancashire |
"Kudos to Governor Desantis, who's proved himself as a visionary leader.
The sky never fell in did it, he took the unconventional path with undoubted risk but Florida is doing fantastic.
Schools open, economy is doing well ect.
Compared to Florida, 38 other states rank higher for per-capita COVID-19 mortality among seniors 65 and older.
Basically lockdowns didn't mitigate.
Desantis sought counsel from the other guys, Professor Martin Kulldorff, Michael Levitt and Jay Bhattacharya.
"
All people the lockdown fanatics claim are discredited. By the time (if) this is all over there’ll be plenty of folk eating humble pie... although I fully expect a whole lot of denial. Well done Florida for lighting the way out of this mess |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Kudos to Governor Desantis, who's proved himself as a visionary leader.
The sky never fell in did it, he took the unconventional path with undoubted risk but Florida is doing fantastic.
Schools open, economy is doing well ect.
Compared to Florida, 38 other states rank higher for per-capita COVID-19 mortality among seniors 65 and older.
Basically lockdowns didn't mitigate.
Desantis sought counsel from the other guys, Professor Martin Kulldorff, Michael Levitt and Jay Bhattacharya.
All people the lockdown fanatics claim are discredited. By the time (if) this is all over there’ll be plenty of folk eating humble pie... although I fully expect a whole lot of denial. Well done Florida for lighting the way out of this mess "
Homes sales in Florida have increased during the pandemic as people have fled the lockdowns states.
U-Haul migration data shows Florida ranks 3rd in the nation for 1 way rental removal Van's.
Way to go Ron. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Alot of people who lost businesses here in the states are on the verge of freaking out. Some states had strict lockdown similar to UK."
U-Haul migration data shows New York is ranked 42nd in the nation for 1 way rental removal Van's.
Way to go Cumou  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Alot of people who lost businesses here in the states are on the verge of freaking out. Some states had strict lockdown similar to UK.
U-Haul migration data shows New York is ranked 42nd in the nation for 1 way rental removal Van's.
Way to go Cumou "
True alot of new York car plates influx in our area. Never in my life have I seen so many. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Alot of people who lost businesses here in the states are on the verge of freaking out. Some states had strict lockdown similar to UK.
U-Haul migration data shows New York is ranked 42nd in the nation for 1 way rental removal Van's.
Way to go Cumou
True alot of new York car plates influx in our area. Never in my life have I seen so many."
U-Haul migration data shows Califiornia is ranked 50th in the nation for 1 way rental removal Van's
Way to go Newsom
|
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Alot of people who lost businesses here in the states are on the verge of freaking out. Some states had strict lockdown similar to UK.
U-Haul migration data shows New York is ranked 42nd in the nation for 1 way rental removal Van's.
Way to go Cumou
True alot of new York car plates influx in our area. Never in my life have I seen so many.
U-Haul migration data shows Califiornia is ranked 50th in the nation for 1 way rental removal Van's
Way to go Newsom
"
Texas influx. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Alot of people who lost businesses here in the states are on the verge of freaking out. Some states had strict lockdown similar to UK.
U-Haul migration data shows New York is ranked 42nd in the nation for 1 way rental removal Van's.
Way to go Cumou
True alot of new York car plates influx in our area. Never in my life have I seen so many.
U-Haul migration data shows Califiornia is ranked 50th in the nation for 1 way rental removal Van's
Way to go Newsom
Texas influx."
How times have changed, Governor Cumou was a contender for an Emmy Award and Ron Desantis was the evil villain.  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Alot of people who lost businesses here in the states are on the verge of freaking out. Some states had strict lockdown similar to UK.
U-Haul migration data shows New York is ranked 42nd in the nation for 1 way rental removal Van's.
Way to go Cumou
True alot of new York car plates influx in our area. Never in my life have I seen so many.
U-Haul migration data shows Califiornia is ranked 50th in the nation for 1 way rental removal Van's
Way to go Newsom
Texas influx.
How times have changed, Governor Cumou was a contender for an Emmy Award and Ron Desantis was the evil villain. "
Lol true. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Alot of people who lost businesses here in the states are on the verge of freaking out. Some states had strict lockdown similar to UK.
U-Haul migration data shows New York is ranked 42nd in the nation for 1 way rental removal Van's.
Way to go Cumou
True alot of new York car plates influx in our area. Never in my life have I seen so many.
U-Haul migration data shows Califiornia is ranked 50th in the nation for 1 way rental removal Van's
Way to go Newsom
Texas influx.
How times have changed, Governor Cumou was a contender for an Emmy Award and Ron Desantis was the evil villain.
Lol true."
Governor Desantis was protecting the elderly and well Governor Cumou was .....???  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Kudos to Governor Desantis, who's proved himself as a visionary leader.
The sky never fell in did it, he took the unconventional path with undoubted risk but Florida is doing fantastic.
Schools open, economy is doing well ect.
Compared to Florida, 38 other states rank higher for per-capita COVID-19 mortality among seniors 65 and older.
Basically lockdowns didn't mitigate.
Lockdowns will be remembered as the biggest disaster in the modern history.
Waiting to be shot down...
"
I think you mean covid
|
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"Kudos to Governor Desantis, who's proved himself as a visionary leader.
The sky never fell in did it, he took the unconventional path with undoubted risk but Florida is doing fantastic.
Schools open, economy is doing well ect.
Compared to Florida, 38 other states rank higher for per-capita COVID-19 mortality among seniors 65 and older.
Basically lockdowns didn't mitigate.
"
They have been successful and essential in many places |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Kudos to Governor Desantis, who's proved himself as a visionary leader.
The sky never fell in did it, he took the unconventional path with undoubted risk but Florida is doing fantastic.
Schools open, economy is doing well ect.
Compared to Florida, 38 other states rank higher for per-capita COVID-19 mortality among seniors 65 and older.
Basically lockdowns didn't mitigate.
They have been successful and essential in many places "
At what cost ? Families destroyed relying on government handouts ? Those handouts can only go so far as a income. Dreams smashed futures in doubt. So let's just crack on and forget about those unfortunate. It was for the betterment. |
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"Kudos to Governor Desantis, who's proved himself as a visionary leader.
The sky never fell in did it, he took the unconventional path with undoubted risk but Florida is doing fantastic.
Schools open, economy is doing well ect.
Compared to Florida, 38 other states rank higher for per-capita COVID-19 mortality among seniors 65 and older.
Basically lockdowns didn't mitigate.
They have been successful and essential in many places
At what cost ? Families destroyed relying on government handouts ? Those handouts can only go so far as a income. Dreams smashed futures in doubt. So let's just crack on and forget about those unfortunate. It was for the betterment."
Massive increases in Cancer and other diseases forecast as well |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Kudos to Governor Desantis, who's proved himself as a visionary leader.
The sky never fell in did it, he took the unconventional path with undoubted risk but Florida is doing fantastic.
Schools open, economy is doing well ect.
Compared to Florida, 38 other states rank higher for per-capita COVID-19 mortality among seniors 65 and older.
Basically lockdowns didn't mitigate.
They have been successful and essential in many places
At what cost ? Families destroyed relying on government handouts ? Those handouts can only go so far as a income. Dreams smashed futures in doubt. So let's just crack on and forget about those unfortunate. It was for the betterment."
Apples and pears. Every country went into covid totally blind, no one could know with any certainty what would work and what wouldn't. As was said, lockdowns may not fit all but were/are essential in some places. Hindsight is an easy skillset, ask me on Monday and I'll predict this Friday's winning lottery numbers. |
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By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"Kudos to Governor Desantis, who's proved himself as a visionary leader.
The sky never fell in did it, he took the unconventional path with undoubted risk but Florida is doing fantastic.
Schools open, economy is doing well ect.
Compared to Florida, 38 other states rank higher for per-capita COVID-19 mortality among seniors 65 and older.
Basically lockdowns didn't mitigate.
Lockdowns will be remembered as the biggest disaster in the modern history.
Waiting to be shot down...
"
“...... Lockdowns will be remembered as the biggest disaster in the modern history.....”
——————————————
Absolute Nonsense!
Take a look at New Zealand, Australia & other parts of southeast Asian where lockdowns have been very effective and have saved thousands of lives.
And compare that to Brazil where a ‘no lockdown’ policy has been a disaster.
Even Sweden who initially did not lockdown, later realised their mistake and changed their strategy by introducing regional lockdowns. |
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"Kudos to Governor Desantis, who's proved himself as a visionary leader.
The sky never fell in did it, he took the unconventional path with undoubted risk but Florida is doing fantastic.
Schools open, economy is doing well ect.
Compared to Florida, 38 other states rank higher for per-capita COVID-19 mortality among seniors 65 and older.
Basically lockdowns didn't mitigate.
Lockdowns will be remembered as the biggest disaster in the modern history.
Waiting to be shot down...
“...... Lockdowns will be remembered as the biggest disaster in the modern history.....”
——————————————
Absolute Nonsense!
Take a look at New Zealand, Australia & other parts of southeast Asian where lockdowns have been very effective and have saved thousands of lives.
And compare that to Brazil where a ‘no lockdown’ policy has been a disaster.
Even Sweden who initially did not lockdown, later realised their mistake and changed their strategy by introducing regional lockdowns. "
But take into account the aftermath, unemployment, unprecedented rise in Cancer deaths and other illness, a poorer country with less to spend on social care , mental illness, to name but a few |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Kudos to Governor Desantis, who's proved himself as a visionary leader.
The sky never fell in did it, he took the unconventional path with undoubted risk but Florida is doing fantastic.
Schools open, economy is doing well ect.
Compared to Florida, 38 other states rank higher for per-capita COVID-19 mortality among seniors 65 and older.
Basically lockdowns didn't mitigate.
Lockdowns will be remembered as the biggest disaster in the modern history.
Waiting to be shot down...
“...... Lockdowns will be remembered as the biggest disaster in the modern history.....”
——————————————
Absolute Nonsense!
Take a look at New Zealand, Australia & other parts of southeast Asian where lockdowns have been very effective and have saved thousands of lives.
And compare that to Brazil where a ‘no lockdown’ policy has been a disaster.
Even Sweden who initially did not lockdown, later realised their mistake and changed their strategy by introducing regional lockdowns. But take into account the aftermath, unemployment, unprecedented rise in Cancer deaths and other illness, a poorer country with less to spend on social care , mental illness, to name but a few "
And the alternative would have been....? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Kudos to Governor Desantis, who's proved himself as a visionary leader.
The sky never fell in did it, he took the unconventional path with undoubted risk but Florida is doing fantastic.
Schools open, economy is doing well ect.
Compared to Florida, 38 other states rank higher for per-capita COVID-19 mortality among seniors 65 and older.
Basically lockdowns didn't mitigate.
Lockdowns will be remembered as the biggest disaster in the modern history.
Waiting to be shot down...
“...... Lockdowns will be remembered as the biggest disaster in the modern history.....”
——————————————
Absolute Nonsense!
Take a look at New Zealand, Australia & other parts of southeast Asian where lockdowns have been very effective and have saved thousands of lives.
And compare that to Brazil where a ‘no lockdown’ policy has been a disaster.
Even Sweden who initially did not lockdown, later realised their mistake and changed their strategy by introducing regional lockdowns. But take into account the aftermath, unemployment, unprecedented rise in Cancer deaths and other illness, a poorer country with less to spend on social care , mental illness, to name but a few
And the alternative would have been....?"
If we had the same climate as Florida and been able to spend a lot of time outside socialising ( well ventilated restaurants/ bars / gyms) then no doubt our case rate would be lower. Climate and ventilation have a huge impact on infection spread. |
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"Kudos to Governor Desantis, who's proved himself as a visionary leader.
The sky never fell in did it, he took the unconventional path with undoubted risk but Florida is doing fantastic.
Schools open, economy is doing well ect.
Compared to Florida, 38 other states rank higher for per-capita COVID-19 mortality among seniors 65 and older.
Basically lockdowns didn't mitigate.
Lockdowns will be remembered as the biggest disaster in the modern history.
Waiting to be shot down...
“...... Lockdowns will be remembered as the biggest disaster in the modern history.....”
——————————————
Absolute Nonsense!
Take a look at New Zealand, Australia & other parts of southeast Asian where lockdowns have been very effective and have saved thousands of lives.
And compare that to Brazil where a ‘no lockdown’ policy has been a disaster.
Even Sweden who initially did not lockdown, later realised their mistake and changed their strategy by introducing regional lockdowns. But take into account the aftermath, unemployment, unprecedented rise in Cancer deaths and other illness, a poorer country with less to spend on social care , mental illness, to name but a few
And the alternative would have been....?
If we had the same climate as Florida and been able to spend a lot of time outside socialising ( well ventilated restaurants/ bars / gyms) then no doubt our case rate would be lower. Climate and ventilation have a huge impact on infection spread."
|
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"Kudos to Governor Desantis, who's proved himself as a visionary leader.
The sky never fell in did it, he took the unconventional path with undoubted risk but Florida is doing fantastic.
Schools open, economy is doing well ect.
Compared to Florida, 38 other states rank higher for per-capita COVID-19 mortality among seniors 65 and older.
Basically lockdowns didn't mitigate.
Lockdowns will be remembered as the biggest disaster in the modern history.
Waiting to be shot down...
“...... Lockdowns will be remembered as the biggest disaster in the modern history.....”
——————————————
Absolute Nonsense!
Take a look at New Zealand, Australia & other parts of southeast Asian where lockdowns have been very effective and have saved thousands of lives.
And compare that to Brazil where a ‘no lockdown’ policy has been a disaster.
Even Sweden who initially did not lockdown, later realised their mistake and changed their strategy by introducing regional lockdowns. But take into account the aftermath, unemployment, unprecedented rise in Cancer deaths and other illness, a poorer country with less to spend on social care , mental illness, to name but a few
And the alternative would have been....?"
Like any other illness |
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Amazing .. one of the biggest arguments against the whole lock down is us handing out money to poor working people ?? and yet we don't even blink or even care here in the UK when nurses are reduced to using food banks and we've been handing over lots & lots & lots of money to the mega rich for decades now and why so many countries are in the state they are in ! and right here in the UK we paid out more money to people who were working than not for the very 1st time on record ??  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" And the alternative would have been....?
Like any other illness
By that you mean condoning the loss of the best part of a whole generation  "
That's a total exaggeration and very overly dramatic. The death statistics do no back that up one bit.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" And the alternative would have been....?
Like any other illness
By that you mean condoning the loss of the best part of a whole generation
That's a total exaggeration and very overly dramatic. The death statistics do no back that up one bit.
"
Because various mitigating measures have been taken. If no measures had been taken would it still be an exaggeration? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" And the alternative would have been....?
Like any other illness
By that you mean condoning the loss of the best part of a whole generation
That's a total exaggeration and very overly dramatic. The death statistics do no back that up one bit.
Because various mitigating measures have been taken. If no measures had been taken would it still be an exaggeration? "
Well as Florida has shown, yes |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" And the alternative would have been....?
Like any other illness
By that you mean condoning the loss of the best part of a whole generation
That's a total exaggeration and very overly dramatic. The death statistics do no back that up one bit.
Because various mitigating measures have been taken. If no measures had been taken would it still be an exaggeration?
Well as Florida has shown, yes"
You're seriously comparing the demographic of Florida to somewhere like inner city Birmingham or London? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The apple and pears analogy of UK and Florida, then compare Florida and California. The same when Sweden is brought up, then compare Sweden to Scotland.
Afterall people quote high death numbers, death rate is the only reliable comparable measure between countries and different years. 2020 is 10.2 per thousand and 2003 is 10.3 in the UK. Even when people cherry pick the last five years for low deathrate and say it's the highest deathrate in the last five years, 2018 was 9.3.
The argument so we just let all the old people die, even with the covid pandemic the average age of death in the UK is 81.5 and the average age of death "with" covid is 82.4. Everyone is entitled to their feelings, but feelings are mostly based on what you are told by media outlets or social media.
The one thing that has dramatically increased is the wealth of the rich and super rich in all this, one fact that is mostly overlooked as the general population in whatever country you are in tries to get by or are focused in on people not wearing masks or how much they can virtue signal to everyone else.
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"Kudos to Governor Desantis, who's proved himself as a visionary leader.
The sky never fell in did it, he took the unconventional path with undoubted risk but Florida is doing fantastic.
Schools open, economy is doing well ect.
Compared to Florida, 38 other states rank higher for per-capita COVID-19 mortality among seniors 65 and older.
Basically lockdowns didn't mitigate.
They have been successful and essential in many places
At what cost ? Families destroyed relying on government handouts ? Those handouts can only go so far as a income. Dreams smashed futures in doubt. So let's just crack on and forget about those unfortunate. It was for the betterment."
The cost has been, just for example, overwhelmed health services that are less able to treat other conditions, tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths with even larger numbers incapacitated for many months, dreams smashed, futures in doubt, families destroyed, to use your words. And some more of them 'let's just crack on and forget about the unfortunate...' It works both ways, nothing is mutally exclusive. Forgetting about the 'unfortunate casualties', ignores the impact on the economy. Robust health of the population drives a healthy economy, which solely exists to support them. People first. Money and the economy next.
Forms of lockdown have been successful and essential in many places. We don't need to be myopic and ignore the evidence that doesn't support our ideology. |
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By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"Kudos to Governor Desantis, who's proved himself as a visionary leader.
The sky never fell in did it, he took the unconventional path with undoubted risk but Florida is doing fantastic.
Schools open, economy is doing well ect.
Compared to Florida, 38 other states rank higher for per-capita COVID-19 mortality among seniors 65 and older.
Basically lockdowns didn't mitigate.
Lockdowns will be remembered as the biggest disaster in the modern history.
Waiting to be shot down...
“...... Lockdowns will be remembered as the biggest disaster in the modern history.....”
——————————————
Absolute Nonsense!
Take a look at New Zealand, Australia & other parts of southeast Asian where lockdowns have been very effective and have saved thousands of lives.
And compare that to Brazil where a ‘no lockdown’ policy has been a disaster.
Even Sweden who initially did not lockdown, later realised their mistake and changed their strategy by introducing regional lockdowns. But take into account the aftermath, unemployment, unprecedented rise in Cancer deaths and other illness, a poorer country with less to spend on social care , mental illness, to name but a few "
"....But take into account the aftermath, unemployment, unprecedented rise in Cancer deaths and other illness, a poorer country with less to spend on social care , mental illness, to name but a few ..."
---------------------------------
All of those things you pointed out would still have happened if we did not lock down. Actually it would have been worse if we did not lockdown.
You mentioned
- unemployment
- rise in cancer deaths
- mental illness.
1. Unemployment. Without a lockdown we would have had a lot more people "off work" through death from covid, sick or hospitalised due to covid, self isolating, and unable to return to work due to Long covid. Many people will be out of work due to these reasons which will be bad for the economy. Thousands of people will lose their jobs because they can't return to work due to the debilitating effects of long covid.
2. Rise in cancer deaths. Without a lockdown our hospitals would be over whelmed with covid patients making it impossible to treat people with other illnesses.
This would have lead to *more* cancer deaths than we have already ; not less.
3. Mental Illness. Without a lockdown we will still see people suffer from mental issues: - as they grieve the death of their loved ones whose death could have been avoided if we had locked down. People will have sleepless nights worrying about their loved ones in hospital and even more worried if their loved ones can't get a hospital bed for treatment because the hospitals are full.
Younger people who don't die from covid could still miss out on education if they suffer from long covid. They could also become orphans and lose their home if both their elderly / vulnerable parents end up dying from covid.
So if we did not lockdown in the UK, we would have had higher number deaths *plus* all of those issues I've mentioned above. We would have been in a worse place without the lockdown. Every country is different and so a different approach may be required. As stated earlier, lock down has proven to be very successful in some parts of the world where it has been implemented effectively. |
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"Kudos to Governor Desantis, who's proved himself as a visionary leader.
The sky never fell in did it, he took the unconventional path with undoubted risk but Florida is doing fantastic.
Schools open, economy is doing well ect.
Compared to Florida, 38 other states rank higher for per-capita COVID-19 mortality among seniors 65 and older.
Basically lockdowns didn't mitigate.
Lockdowns will be remembered as the biggest disaster in the modern history.
Waiting to be shot down...
“...... Lockdowns will be remembered as the biggest disaster in the modern history.....”
——————————————
Absolute Nonsense!
Take a look at New Zealand, Australia & other parts of southeast Asian where lockdowns have been very effective and have saved thousands of lives.
And compare that to Brazil where a ‘no lockdown’ policy has been a disaster.
Even Sweden who initially did not lockdown, later realised their mistake and changed their strategy by introducing regional lockdowns. But take into account the aftermath, unemployment, unprecedented rise in Cancer deaths and other illness, a poorer country with less to spend on social care , mental illness, to name but a few
"....But take into account the aftermath, unemployment, unprecedented rise in Cancer deaths and other illness, a poorer country with less to spend on social care , mental illness, to name but a few ..."
---------------------------------
All of those things you pointed out would still have happened if we did not lock down. Actually it would have been worse if we did not lockdown.
You mentioned
- unemployment
- rise in cancer deaths
- mental illness.
1. Unemployment. Without a lockdown we would have had a lot more people "off work" through death from covid, sick or hospitalised due to covid, self isolating, and unable to return to work due to Long covid. Many people will be out of work due to these reasons which will be bad for the economy. Thousands of people will lose their jobs because they can't return to work due to the debilitating effects of long covid.
2. Rise in cancer deaths. Without a lockdown our hospitals would be over whelmed with covid patients making it impossible to treat people with other illnesses.
This would have lead to *more* cancer deaths than we have already ; not less.
3. Mental Illness. Without a lockdown we will still see people suffer from mental issues: - as they grieve the death of their loved ones whose death could have been avoided if we had locked down. People will have sleepless nights worrying about their loved ones in hospital and even more worried if their loved ones can't get a hospital bed for treatment because the hospitals are full.
Younger people who don't die from covid could still miss out on education if they suffer from long covid. They could also become orphans and lose their home if both their elderly / vulnerable parents end up dying from covid.
So if we did not lockdown in the UK, we would have had higher number deaths *plus* all of those issues I've mentioned above. We would have been in a worse place without the lockdown. Every country is different and so a different approach may be required. As stated earlier, lock down has proven to be very successful in some parts of the world where it has been implemented effectively."
Excellent response however I feel that you are wasting your time as they have already made up their minds. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Which countries have done lockdown well?
Peru had a really well done lockdown, how come they had one of the worst outcomes in the world?
Just because you question something, doesn't mean your minds made up. It's having a discussion on a forum, what it means is, there are different opinions and shock horror, some may be even different from yours..... Society now seems that divergent opinion means the other person must be bad and an idiot. I would call open discussion and opinion healthy to a democratic society, alot now consider that a bad society..... |
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"Kudos to Governor Desantis, who's proved himself as a visionary leader.
The sky never fell in did it, he took the unconventional path with undoubted risk but Florida is doing fantastic.
Schools open, economy is doing well ect.
Compared to Florida, 38 other states rank higher for per-capita COVID-19 mortality among seniors 65 and older.
Basically lockdowns didn't mitigate.
They have been successful and essential in many places
At what cost ? Families destroyed relying on government handouts ? Those handouts can only go so far as a income. Dreams smashed futures in doubt. So let's just crack on and forget about those unfortunate. It was for the betterment. Massive increases in Cancer and other diseases forecast as well "
Where are you hearing about massive increases in cancer and other diseases? |
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"Kudos to Governor Desantis, who's proved himself as a visionary leader.
The sky never fell in did it, he took the unconventional path with undoubted risk but Florida is doing fantastic.
Schools open, economy is doing well ect.
Compared to Florida, 38 other states rank higher for per-capita COVID-19 mortality among seniors 65 and older.
Basically lockdowns didn't mitigate.
Lockdowns will be remembered as the biggest disaster in the modern history.
Waiting to be shot down...
“...... Lockdowns will be remembered as the biggest disaster in the modern history.....”
——————————————
Absolute Nonsense!
Take a look at New Zealand, Australia & other parts of southeast Asian where lockdowns have been very effective and have saved thousands of lives.
And compare that to Brazil where a ‘no lockdown’ policy has been a disaster.
Even Sweden who initially did not lockdown, later realised their mistake and changed their strategy by introducing regional lockdowns. But take into account the aftermath, unemployment, unprecedented rise in Cancer deaths and other illness, a poorer country with less to spend on social care , mental illness, to name but a few "
It's easy to throw out unsubstantiated claims with emotionally charged words like massive and unprecedented but where are these claims evidenced? And will the same logic apply to those as was applied to locking down to protect the elderly and vulnerable? Ie they are old and going to die anyway. |
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" And the alternative would have been....?
Like any other illness
By that you mean condoning the loss of the best part of a whole generation
That's a total exaggeration and very overly dramatic. The death statistics do no back that up one bit.
Because various mitigating measures have been taken. If no measures had been taken would it still be an exaggeration?
Well as Florida has shown, yes"
So you are comparing florida the sunshine state with the UK? OK. Let me just randomly pick another country to Compare us with... Brazil? Or Australia.... Isle of man.. |
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The article says that the gamble they took probably 1500 extra lives so far. Now some people would say it was worth it some not. As pointed out by others you cannot compare Florida with the UK for so many reasons. One thing is Florida has one of the highest covid vaccination rates in the us could that be why they have got away with so few extra deaths? |
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By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"Kudos to Governor Desantis, who's proved himself as a visionary leader.
The sky never fell in did it, he took the unconventional path with undoubted risk but Florida is doing fantastic.
Schools open, economy is doing well ect.
Compared to Florida, 38 other states rank higher for per-capita COVID-19 mortality among seniors 65 and older.
Basically lockdowns didn't mitigate.
Lockdowns will be remembered as the biggest disaster in the modern history.
Waiting to be shot down...
“...... Lockdowns will be remembered as the biggest disaster in the modern history.....”
——————————————
Absolute Nonsense!
Take a look at New Zealand, Australia & other parts of southeast Asian where lockdowns have been very effective and have saved thousands of lives.
And compare that to Brazil where a ‘no lockdown’ policy has been a disaster.
Even Sweden who initially did not lockdown, later realised their mistake and changed their strategy by introducing regional lockdowns. But take into account the aftermath, unemployment, unprecedented rise in Cancer deaths and other illness, a poorer country with less to spend on social care , mental illness, to name but a few
"....But take into account the aftermath, unemployment, unprecedented rise in Cancer deaths and other illness, a poorer country with less to spend on social care , mental illness, to name but a few ..."
---------------------------------
All of those things you pointed out would still have happened if we did not lock down. Actually it would have been worse if we did not lockdown.
You mentioned
- unemployment
- rise in cancer deaths
- mental illness.
1. Unemployment. Without a lockdown we would have had a lot more people "off work" through death from covid, sick or hospitalised due to covid, self isolating, and unable to return to work due to Long covid. Many people will be out of work due to these reasons which will be bad for the economy. Thousands of people will lose their jobs because they can't return to work due to the debilitating effects of long covid.
2. Rise in cancer deaths. Without a lockdown our hospitals would be over whelmed with covid patients making it impossible to treat people with other illnesses.
This would have lead to *more* cancer deaths than we have already ; not less.
3. Mental Illness. Without a lockdown we will still see people suffer from mental issues: - as they grieve the death of their loved ones whose death could have been avoided if we had locked down. People will have sleepless nights worrying about their loved ones in hospital and even more worried if their loved ones can't get a hospital bed for treatment because the hospitals are full.
Younger people who don't die from covid could still miss out on education if they suffer from long covid. They could also become orphans and lose their home if both their elderly / vulnerable parents end up dying from covid.
So if we did not lockdown in the UK, we would have had higher number deaths *plus* all of those issues I've mentioned above. We would have been in a worse place without the lockdown. Every country is different and so a different approach may be required. As stated earlier, lock down has proven to be very successful in some parts of the world where it has been implemented effectively.
Excellent response however I feel that you are wasting your time as they have already made up their minds."
Yep you’re right. Some have already made up their minds. |
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"The apple and pears analogy of UK and Florida, then compare Florida and California. The same when Sweden is brought up, then compare Sweden to Scotland.
Afterall people quote high death numbers, death rate is the only reliable comparable measure between countries and different years. 2020 is 10.2 per thousand and 2003 is 10.3 in the UK. Even when people cherry pick the last five years for low deathrate and say it's the highest deathrate in the last five years, 2018 was 9.3.
The argument so we just let all the old people die, even with the covid pandemic the average age of death in the UK is 81.5 and the average age of death "with" covid is 82.4. Everyone is entitled to their feelings, but feelings are mostly based on what you are told by media outlets or social media.
The one thing that has dramatically increased is the wealth of the rich and super rich in all this, one fact that is mostly overlooked as the general population in whatever country you are in tries to get by or are focused in on people not wearing masks or how much they can virtue signal to everyone else.
"
Gotta love how everyone chose to ignore this response |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The apple and pears analogy of UK and Florida, then compare Florida and California. The same when Sweden is brought up, then compare Sweden to Scotland.
Afterall people quote high death numbers, death rate is the only reliable comparable measure between countries and different years. 2020 is 10.2 per thousand and 2003 is 10.3 in the UK. Even when people cherry pick the last five years for low deathrate and say it's the highest deathrate in the last five years, 2018 was 9.3.
The argument so we just let all the old people die, even with the covid pandemic the average age of death in the UK is 81.5 and the average age of death "with" covid is 82.4. Everyone is entitled to their feelings, but feelings are mostly based on what you are told by media outlets or social media.
The one thing that has dramatically increased is the wealth of the rich and super rich in all this, one fact that is mostly overlooked as the general population in whatever country you are in tries to get by or are focused in on people not wearing masks or how much they can virtue signal to everyone else.
Gotta love how everyone chose to ignore this response "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" And the alternative would have been....?
Like any other illness
By that you mean condoning the loss of the best part of a whole generation
That's a total exaggeration and very overly dramatic. The death statistics do no back that up one bit.
Because various mitigating measures have been taken. If no measures had been taken would it still be an exaggeration?
Well as Florida has shown, yes
You're seriously comparing the demographic of Florida to somewhere like inner city Birmingham or London?"
Indeed! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The apple and pears analogy of UK and Florida, then compare Florida and California. The same when Sweden is brought up, then compare Sweden to Scotland.
Afterall people quote high death numbers, death rate is the only reliable comparable measure between countries and different years. 2020 is 10.2 per thousand and 2003 is 10.3 in the UK. Even when people cherry pick the last five years for low deathrate and say it's the highest deathrate in the last five years, 2018 was 9.3.
The argument so we just let all the old people die, even with the covid pandemic the average age of death in the UK is 81.5 and the average age of death "with" covid is 82.4. Everyone is entitled to their feelings, but feelings are mostly based on what you are told by media outlets or social media.
The one thing that has dramatically increased is the wealth of the rich and super rich in all this, one fact that is mostly overlooked as the general population in whatever country you are in tries to get by or are focused in on people not wearing masks or how much they can virtue signal to everyone else.
Gotta love how everyone chose to ignore this response "
There's not really much to say about wealth envy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yeah, because no lockdown has worked really well in Brazil!
Deaths per million in Brazil almost 30% lower than the UK .."
Their health service is on the verge of collapse. |
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"Yeah, because no lockdown has worked really well in Brazil!
Deaths per million in Brazil almost 30% lower than in the UK."
The difference you'll find is that the UK will report and records such deaths accurately. Do you really believe that is happening in Brazil, especially with their 'gung-ho' president?
The country is so vast with areas/regions larger that parts of England and Wales. On top of that there little or no infrastructure so there's no way they can accurately collate that information |
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By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"Yeah, because no lockdown has worked really well in Brazil!
Deaths per million in Brazil almost 30% lower than the UK .."
Are you aware that Brazil stopped releasing Covid-19 death tolls and wiped data from its official site ??
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/07/brazil-stops-releasing-covid-19-death-toll-and-wipes-data-from-official-site |
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"Yeah, because no lockdown has worked really well in Brazil!
Deaths per million in Brazil almost 30% lower than in the UK."
The difference you'll find is that the UK will report and records such deaths accurately. Do you really believe that is happening in Brazil, especially with their 'gung-ho' president?
The country is so vast with areas/regions larger that parts of England and Wales. On top of that there little or no infrastructure so there's no way they can accurately collate that information |
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" And the alternative would have been....?
Like any other illness
By that you mean condoning the loss of the best part of a whole generation "
Recon the operation was a success but the patient died |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" And the alternative would have been....?
Like any other illness
By that you mean condoning the loss of the best part of a whole generation Recon the operation was a success but the patient died "
That's a cold way of looking on life. Having lost 3 family members to Covid I couldn't and wouldn't be able to identify any elderly member(s) of my family I'd be remotely comfortable with dying from it, you and I must be totally different in that respect. |
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" And the alternative would have been....?
Like any other illness
By that you mean condoning the loss of the best part of a whole generation Recon the operation was a success but the patient died
That's a cold way of looking on life. Having lost 3 family members to Covid I couldn't and wouldn't be able to identify any elderly member(s) of my family I'd be remotely comfortable with dying from it, you and I must be totally different in that respect."
What about the people that have lost there life over other illness , seems Covid is the only game in town ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" And the alternative would have been....?
Like any other illness
By that you mean condoning the loss of the best part of a whole generation Recon the operation was a success but the patient died
That's a cold way of looking on life. Having lost 3 family members to Covid I couldn't and wouldn't be able to identify any elderly member(s) of my family I'd be remotely comfortable with dying from it, you and I must be totally different in that respect. What about the people that have lost there life over other illness , seems Covid is the only game in town ? "
Certainly the most virulent, but the actions taken appear (thankfully) to be bringing the numbers down in the right direction. This in turn eases pressure on the NHS, allowing them to continue dealing with other illnesses. Which wouldn't be the case if the attitude to let the virus do its own thing unchecked, the NHS would have been swamped before the first wave was through. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The apple and pears analogy of UK and Florida, then compare Florida and California. The same when Sweden is brought up, then compare Sweden to Scotland.
Afterall people quote high death numbers, death rate is the only reliable comparable measure between countries and different years. 2020 is 10.2 per thousand and 2003 is 10.3 in the UK. Even when people cherry pick the last five years for low deathrate and say it's the highest deathrate in the last five years, 2018 was 9.3.
The argument so we just let all the old people die, even with the covid pandemic the average age of death in the UK is 81.5 and the average age of death "with" covid is 82.4. Everyone is entitled to their feelings, but feelings are mostly based on what you are told by media outlets or social media.
The one thing that has dramatically increased is the wealth of the rich and super rich in all this, one fact that is mostly overlooked as the general population in whatever country you are in tries to get by or are focused in on people not wearing masks or how much they can virtue signal to everyone else.
Gotta love how everyone chose to ignore this response
There's not really much to say about wealth envy."
Wealth envy? That was just the last part, in my case I have no envy of wealth, I doing fine and will continue to do so. Feelings for the masses, save the reasoning for the few.
At least try and pick apart some of the rest of it, maybe try and even put some rolling eyes, that's a typical vacuous response some like to make. |
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"The apple and pears analogy of UK and Florida, then compare Florida and California. The same when Sweden is brought up, then compare Sweden to Scotland.
Afterall people quote high death numbers, death rate is the only reliable comparable measure between countries and different years. 2020 is 10.2 per thousand and 2003 is 10.3 in the UK. Even when people cherry pick the last five years for low deathrate and say it's the highest deathrate in the last five years, 2018 was 9.3.
The argument so we just let all the old people die, even with the covid pandemic the average age of death in the UK is 81.5 and the average age of death "with" covid is 82.4. Everyone is entitled to their feelings, but feelings are mostly based on what you are told by media outlets or social media.
The one thing that has dramatically increased is the wealth of the rich and super rich in all this, one fact that is mostly overlooked as the general population in whatever country you are in tries to get by or are focused in on people not wearing masks or how much they can virtue signal to everyone else.
Gotta love how everyone chose to ignore this response
There's not really much to say about wealth envy."
Wealth envy? Wealth fucking envy? Unbelievable ignorance.
Hundreds of thousands of small businesses which pay taxes through their nose never to reopen again. Millions of jobs providing families with food and roofs over their heads and one is complaining about wealth envy... shocking.
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