FabSwingers.com > Forums > Virus > Proof of vaccination
Proof of vaccination
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They never asked for health certificates before. "
Its a bit different as you cant catch STI's from touching the same surface or just being in close proximity to others. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They never asked for health certificates before.
Its a bit different as you cant catch STI's from touching the same surface or just being in close proximity to others. "
The HPV virus is easily transmissible? |
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"They never asked for health certificates before.
Its a bit different as you cant catch STI's from touching the same surface or just being in close proximity to others.
The HPV virus is easily transmissible?"
Yes, but by engaging in sex you engage in risk of STIs. It's a bit different with, like, breathing.
Also: there's a jab for that  |
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By *andR510Couple
over a year ago
St Neots/Wisbech |
High unlikely. Its well documented now that the vaccine doesn't stop you from catching it and passing it on, if anything a quick temp test would be more beneficial.
I suspect by that point the onus will be put on those not protected to stay out of harms way, rather than the vast majority having to suffer because of the few. |
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"High unlikely. Its well documented now that the vaccine doesn't stop you from catching it and passing it on, "
It's well documented that that was a precautionary thing to tell people before we knew for sure. Data now shows that the vaccines do reduce transmission and infection, at least as well as any of the other vaccines  |
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Almost certain that at least one very well known and popular club in the north west will, as the owner is unable to be vaccinated (her own statement, in a forum post last year). She will have to be very careful about the people she allows into the club, if for no reason other than her own safety. |
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By *andR510Couple
over a year ago
St Neots/Wisbech |
"High unlikely. Its well documented now that the vaccine doesn't stop you from catching it and passing it on,
It's well documented that that was a precautionary thing to tell people before we knew for sure. Data now shows that the vaccines do reduce transmission and infection, at least as well as any of the other vaccines "
Source ?
I have seen no conclusive proof or evidence of it . |
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"High unlikely. Its well documented now that the vaccine doesn't stop you from catching it and passing it on,
It's well documented that that was a precautionary thing to tell people before we knew for sure. Data now shows that the vaccines do reduce transmission and infection, at least as well as any of the other vaccines
Source ?
I have seen no conclusive proof or evidence of it . "
LSHTM story "COVID-19 vaccine linked to a reduction in transmission" 12 March 2021
Nature "Can COVID vaccines stop transmission? Scientists race to find answers" 19 February 2021
For example
Not yet conclusive but difficult to measure. I might have overstated it, the data is still forthcoming, but to say that they *don't* prevent transmission is no longer a true statement. |
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By *andR510Couple
over a year ago
St Neots/Wisbech |
"High unlikely. Its well documented now that the vaccine doesn't stop you from catching it and passing it on,
It's well documented that that was a precautionary thing to tell people before we knew for sure. Data now shows that the vaccines do reduce transmission and infection, at least as well as any of the other vaccines
Source ?
I have seen no conclusive proof or evidence of it .
LSHTM story "COVID-19 vaccine linked to a reduction in transmission" 12 March 2021
Nature "Can COVID vaccines stop transmission? Scientists race to find answers" 19 February 2021
For example
Not yet conclusive but difficult to measure. I might have overstated it, the data is still forthcoming, but to say that they *don't* prevent transmission is no longer a true statement."
It's true until evidence is presented to the contrary. A few snippets saying there might be a case to show reduced transmissions does not quantify your theory.
The pharma companies fell short of their promises and theories of sars-cov over 20 years ago. Do you honestly think they'll make that same mistake again ? That "all eradicating" vaccine never transpired.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You do know the vaccine protects you not others?"
Actually its looking very likely that having the vaccine limits the transmission by at least 30% after 2 to 3 weeks of having the first vaccination.
Also the more people that have the vaccine the more protection for all.
Over half the adult population of the UK have now had at least one shot but we need at least another 30% to have it to get a very good change of herd immunity. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You do know the vaccine protects you not others?
Nope. Vaccines protect everyone.link please and not the BBC "
The world health organisation, the UK government, the UN, the EU commission. Would you like me to continue? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You do know the vaccine protects you not others?
Actually its looking very likely that having the vaccine limits the transmission by at least 30% after 2 to 3 weeks of having the first vaccination.
Also the more people that have the vaccine the more protection for all.
Over half the adult population of the UK have now had at least one shot but we need at least another 30% to have it to get a very good change of herd immunity. "
so why can't you see your family if all had the jab? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You do know the vaccine protects you not others?
Actually its looking very likely that having the vaccine limits the transmission by at least 30% after 2 to 3 weeks of having the first vaccination.
Also the more people that have the vaccine the more protection for all.
Over half the adult population of the UK have now had at least one shot but we need at least another 30% to have it to get a very good change of herd immunity. so why can't you see your family if all had the jab?"
It's very simple because to get heard immediately we need another 30%.
Also it takes upto 3 weeks until any protection from the vaccine.
Why do you think most restrictions aren't being lifted until mid May? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You do know the vaccine protects you not others?
Actually its looking very likely that having the vaccine limits the transmission by at least 30% after 2 to 3 weeks of having the first vaccination.
Also the more people that have the vaccine the more protection for all.
Over half the adult population of the UK have now had at least one shot but we need at least another 30% to have it to get a very good change of herd immunity. so why can't you see your family if all had the jab?"
Oh and I can see my my friends and family as can you from the 29th of this month. |
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By *andR510Couple
over a year ago
St Neots/Wisbech |
"You do know the vaccine protects you not others?
Actually its looking very likely that having the vaccine limits the transmission by at least 30% after 2 to 3 weeks of having the first vaccination.
Also the more people that have the vaccine the more protection for all.
Over half the adult population of the UK have now had at least one shot but we need at least another 30% to have it to get a very good change of herd immunity. "
We have already established that there's no evidence of this, just speculative opinion.
This vaccine responds to systemic infection and not mucosal infection which is how the virus is transmitted. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You do know the vaccine protects you not others?
Actually its looking very likely that having the vaccine limits the transmission by at least 30% after 2 to 3 weeks of having the first vaccination.
Also the more people that have the vaccine the more protection for all.
Over half the adult population of the UK have now had at least one shot but we need at least another 30% to have it to get a very good change of herd immunity.
We have already established that there's no evidence of this, just speculative opinion.
This vaccine responds to systemic infection and not mucosal infection which is how the virus is transmitted. "
Sorry who has a stablished this because it was widely reported that scientists have confirmed that the vaccinations limit transmission I think I would rather listen to a scientist thank you. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You do know the vaccine protects you not others?
Actually its looking very likely that having the vaccine limits the transmission by at least 30% after 2 to 3 weeks of having the first vaccination.
Also the more people that have the vaccine the more protection for all.
Over half the adult population of the UK have now had at least one shot but we need at least another 30% to have it to get a very good change of herd immunity. so why can't you see your family if all had the jab?
Oh and I can see my my friends and family as can you from the 29th of this month. "
no you can't only small groups if vaccinated then why wait and why restrictions? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You do know the vaccine protects you not others?
Actually its looking very likely that having the vaccine limits the transmission by at least 30% after 2 to 3 weeks of having the first vaccination.
Also the more people that have the vaccine the more protection for all.
Over half the adult population of the UK have now had at least one shot but we need at least another 30% to have it to get a very good change of herd immunity. so why can't you see your family if all had the jab?
Oh and I can see my my friends and family as can you from the 29th of this month. no you can't only small groups if vaccinated then why wait and why restrictions?"
Yes small groups but you can see them but you don't have to be vaccinated I suggest you look at a news report or two. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You do know the vaccine protects you not others?
Actually its looking very likely that having the vaccine limits the transmission by at least 30% after 2 to 3 weeks of having the first vaccination.
Also the more people that have the vaccine the more protection for all.
Over half the adult population of the UK have now had at least one shot but we need at least another 30% to have it to get a very good change of herd immunity. so why can't you see your family if all had the jab?
Oh and I can see my my friends and family as can you from the 29th of this month. no you can't only small groups if vaccinated then why wait and why restrictions?
Yes small groups but you can see them but you don't have to be vaccinated I suggest you look at a news report or two. "
ok i can't see you at home, but go the supermarket and work with you, its bullshit
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You do know the vaccine protects you not others?
Actually its looking very likely that having the vaccine limits the transmission by at least 30% after 2 to 3 weeks of having the first vaccination.
Also the more people that have the vaccine the more protection for all.
Over half the adult population of the UK have now had at least one shot but we need at least another 30% to have it to get a very good change of herd immunity. so why can't you see your family if all had the jab?
Oh and I can see my my friends and family as can you from the 29th of this month. no you can't only small groups if vaccinated then why wait and why restrictions?
Yes small groups but you can see them but you don't have to be vaccinated I suggest you look at a news report or two. ok i can't see you at home, but go the supermarket and work with you, its bullshit
"
You can see them in your garden.
So my point stands you can see friends and family and it has nothing to do with your vaccination status |
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By *andR510Couple
over a year ago
St Neots/Wisbech |
"You do know the vaccine protects you not others?
Actually its looking very likely that having the vaccine limits the transmission by at least 30% after 2 to 3 weeks of having the first vaccination.
Also the more people that have the vaccine the more protection for all.
Over half the adult population of the UK have now had at least one shot but we need at least another 30% to have it to get a very good change of herd immunity.
We have already established that there's no evidence of this, just speculative opinion.
This vaccine responds to systemic infection and not mucosal infection which is how the virus is transmitted.
Sorry who has a stablished this because it was widely reported that scientists have confirmed that the vaccinations limit transmission I think I would rather listen to a scientist thank you. "
Well name your source of proof then. Don't just chuck out the previous answer of WHO, UK govt, etc, show us the actual articles that prove this.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You do know the vaccine protects you not others?
Actually its looking very likely that having the vaccine limits the transmission by at least 30% after 2 to 3 weeks of having the first vaccination.
Also the more people that have the vaccine the more protection for all.
Over half the adult population of the UK have now had at least one shot but we need at least another 30% to have it to get a very good change of herd immunity.
We have already established that there's no evidence of this, just speculative opinion.
This vaccine responds to systemic infection and not mucosal infection which is how the virus is transmitted.
Sorry who has a stablished this because it was widely reported that scientists have confirmed that the vaccinations limit transmission I think I would rather listen to a scientist thank you.
Well name your source of proof then. Don't just chuck out the previous answer of WHO, UK govt, etc, show us the actual articles that prove this.
"
Tell you what a very quick Google and you can for yourself.
Isn't it interesting that you haven't provided any sources for your information but you are demanding them from others.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You do know the vaccine protects you not others?
Actually its looking very likely that having the vaccine limits the transmission by at least 30% after 2 to 3 weeks of having the first vaccination.
Also the more people that have the vaccine the more protection for all.
Over half the adult population of the UK have now had at least one shot but we need at least another 30% to have it to get a very good change of herd immunity. so why can't you see your family if all had the jab?
Oh and I can see my my friends and family as can you from the 29th of this month. no you can't only small groups if vaccinated then why wait and why restrictions?
Yes small groups but you can see them but you don't have to be vaccinated I suggest you look at a news report or two. ok i can't see you at home, but go the supermarket and work with you, its bullshit
You can see them in your garden.
So my point stands you can see friends and family and it has nothing to do with your vaccination status"
you don't get it the government says no meeting,but if spending money or working you can meet. See anything wrong there..no ok carry on following order's . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You do know the vaccine protects you not others?
Actually its looking very likely that having the vaccine limits the transmission by at least 30% after 2 to 3 weeks of having the first vaccination.
Also the more people that have the vaccine the more protection for all.
Over half the adult population of the UK have now had at least one shot but we need at least another 30% to have it to get a very good change of herd immunity.
We have already established that there's no evidence of this, just speculative opinion.
This vaccine responds to systemic infection and not mucosal infection which is how the virus is transmitted.
Sorry who has a stablished this because it was widely reported that scientists have confirmed that the vaccinations limit transmission I think I would rather listen to a scientist thank you.
Well name your source of proof then. Don't just chuck out the previous answer of WHO, UK govt, etc, show us the actual articles that prove this.
"
Here is one for you
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-two-doses-of-pfizer-or-oxford-vaccine-reduce-risk-of-transmission-by-more-than-half-study-shows-12243898
John Hopkins, the WHO and the CDC are all reporting the same. |
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By *andR510Couple
over a year ago
St Neots/Wisbech |
"You do know the vaccine protects you not others?
Actually its looking very likely that having the vaccine limits the transmission by at least 30% after 2 to 3 weeks of having the first vaccination.
Also the more people that have the vaccine the more protection for all.
Over half the adult population of the UK have now had at least one shot but we need at least another 30% to have it to get a very good change of herd immunity.
We have already established that there's no evidence of this, just speculative opinion.
This vaccine responds to systemic infection and not mucosal infection which is how the virus is transmitted.
Sorry who has a stablished this because it was widely reported that scientists have confirmed that the vaccinations limit transmission I think I would rather listen to a scientist thank you.
Well name your source of proof then. Don't just chuck out the previous answer of WHO, UK govt, etc, show us the actual articles that prove this.
Tell you what a very quick Google and you can for yourself.
Isn't it interesting that you haven't provided any sources for your information but you are demanding them from others.
"
I've been through this countless times. The fact that you can't provide one conclusive piece of evidence is enough to know that you are another soundbite critic.
This disease is spread through mucosal infection which is not what this vaccine attacks. It attacks systemic infection.
A quick bit of googling from yourself will help educate yourself on how different types of vaccines work. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You do know the vaccine protects you not others?
Actually its looking very likely that having the vaccine limits the transmission by at least 30% after 2 to 3 weeks of having the first vaccination.
Also the more people that have the vaccine the more protection for all.
Over half the adult population of the UK have now had at least one shot but we need at least another 30% to have it to get a very good change of herd immunity.
We have already established that there's no evidence of this, just speculative opinion.
This vaccine responds to systemic infection and not mucosal infection which is how the virus is transmitted.
Sorry who has a stablished this because it was widely reported that scientists have confirmed that the vaccinations limit transmission I think I would rather listen to a scientist thank you.
Well name your source of proof then. Don't just chuck out the previous answer of WHO, UK govt, etc, show us the actual articles that prove this.
Tell you what a very quick Google and you can for yourself.
Isn't it interesting that you haven't provided any sources for your information but you are demanding them from others.
I've been through this countless times. The fact that you can't provide one conclusive piece of evidence is enough to know that you are another soundbite critic.
This disease is spread through mucosal infection which is not what this vaccine attacks. It attacks systemic infection.
A quick bit of googling from yourself will help educate yourself on how different types of vaccines work. "
Like I said I have provided links on like yourself.
Very well educated so please don't be so rude and suggest that I'm not.
Have a little look at the links provided and like I said I am very clued up on this I would you like to provide some links to tell me that I'm wrong then.  |
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"Why would you want to disciminate against those that havnt had it.its only flu"
15 months of research, testing, investigation, funding, virtually every expert on biology in the world looking at C19.
And people still think it's the flu. 
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"Why would you want to disciminate against those that havnt had it.its only flu"
The president of Tanzania also said covid was cured with 3 days of prayer and since then there was no single case reported officially in the country. At the same time people kept dying in abnormal rates for months.
This week the president of Tanzania died from complications from covid-19.
The mortality of covid is at least 300% above the worst flu mortality we have seen. Transmission rate is far higher in covid. The risk of severe respiratory complications and need for intense care is also much higher.
Post infections diseases like diabetes, kidney failure and others are far more prevalent in surviving covid patients too.
More details: https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20201218/covid-19-is-far-more-lethal-damaging-than-flu-data-shows |
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"Why would you want to disciminate against those that havnt had it.its only flu
15 months of research, testing, investigation, funding, virtually every expert on biology in the world looking at C19.
And people still think it's the flu.
"
Exactly! I wish it was only flu I was seriously ill with it last year and would happily have flu rather than that again. I also lost a friend to it a couple of weeks before Christmas who had no underlying health conditions so ignorant comments like "it's only flu" really annoys me |
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"Why would you want to disciminate against those that havnt had it.its only flu
15 months of research, testing, investigation, funding, virtually every expert on biology in the world looking at C19.
And people still think it's the flu.
Exactly! I wish it was only flu I was seriously ill with it last year and would happily have flu rather than that again. I also lost a friend to it a couple of weeks before Christmas who had no underlying health conditions so ignorant comments like "it's only flu" really annoys me"
I struggle in getting to grips with how uneducated some people are over this, so far down the line.
M |
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"You do know the vaccine protects you not others?
Actually its looking very likely that having the vaccine limits the transmission by at least 30% after 2 to 3 weeks of having the first vaccination.
Also the more people that have the vaccine the more protection for all.
Over half the adult population of the UK have now had at least one shot but we need at least another 30% to have it to get a very good change of herd immunity. so why can't you see your family if all had the jab?
Oh and I can see my my friends and family as can you from the 29th of this month. no you can't only small groups if vaccinated then why wait and why restrictions?
Yes small groups but you can see them but you don't have to be vaccinated I suggest you look at a news report or two. ok i can't see you at home, but go the supermarket and work with you, its bullshit
"
Because economic activity is required and people need to get food. Cost-benefit. |
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"You do know the vaccine protects you not others?
Actually its looking very likely that having the vaccine limits the transmission by at least 30% after 2 to 3 weeks of having the first vaccination.
Also the more people that have the vaccine the more protection for all.
Over half the adult population of the UK have now had at least one shot but we need at least another 30% to have it to get a very good change of herd immunity.
We have already established that there's no evidence of this, just speculative opinion.
This vaccine responds to systemic infection and not mucosal infection which is how the virus is transmitted. "
Speculative opinion 
The stuff I linked to includes preprints. Which means a) academic research has been conducted to rigorous standards, b) it's been cross checked within the institution by the experts conducting it, and c) they think it's good enough to be published, so d) they've sent it out. They just need it to be checked by other experts unrelated to the research (peer review).
The fact that this doesn't suit your narrative and you don't understand the scientific process is not my problem. |
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So, for a person like me who lacks any real scientific knowledge, can someone give me a simple yes or no answer to this question, disregarding reasons why a person is not vaccinated against C19.
Who is most at risk, the vaccinated or the unvaccinated person? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why would you want to disciminate against those that havnt had it.its only flu"
You can’t say stuff like that in this section. People get very touchy over it lol |
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"So, for a person like me who lacks any real scientific knowledge, can someone give me a simple yes or no answer to this question, disregarding reasons why a person is not vaccinated against C19.
Who is most at risk, the vaccinated or the unvaccinated person?"
Unvaccinated. (But. There's a lot of but.) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why would you want to disciminate against those that havnt had it.its only flu
You can’t say stuff like that in this section. People get very touchy over it lol"
Too damn right ha ha |
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"So, for a person like me who lacks any real scientific knowledge, can someone give me a simple yes or no answer to this question, disregarding reasons why a person is not vaccinated against C19.
Who is most at risk, the vaccinated or the unvaccinated person?
Unvaccinated. (But. There's a lot of but.)"
Ok. Why are vaccinated people concerned about the unvaccinated being in close contact with them?
If you assume that I have very limited knowledge of the but bits you'd be correct. |
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"So, for a person like me who lacks any real scientific knowledge, can someone give me a simple yes or no answer to this question, disregarding reasons why a person is not vaccinated against C19.
Who is most at risk, the vaccinated or the unvaccinated person?
Unvaccinated. (But. There's a lot of but.)
Ok. Why are vaccinated people concerned about the unvaccinated being in close contact with them?
If you assume that I have very limited knowledge of the but bits you'd be correct."
One, not all vaccinated people develop protection, or that protection might wane (this is particularly true in older people, but also immune suppressed people, including those with cancer). Those people deserve protection.
Two, there are those who can't be vaccinated: they deserve protection.
Three: we reach herd immunity by getting a maximal number of people vaccinated, so that our personal risk in taking the vaccine (all intervention carries risk) will be of maximal benefit to society.
Four: the more unvaccinated people there are, the more chance the virus has to mutate and we start all this again. I want to see my mum before 2030  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So, for a person like me who lacks any real scientific knowledge, can someone give me a simple yes or no answer to this question, disregarding reasons why a person is not vaccinated against C19.
Who is most at risk, the vaccinated or the unvaccinated person?
Unvaccinated. (But. There's a lot of but.)
Ok. Why are vaccinated people concerned about the unvaccinated being in close contact with them?
If you assume that I have very limited knowledge of the but bits you'd be correct."
What i don’t understand is i get what people are saying about herd immunity etc, and they say everyone should be vaccinated (except those who can’t medically).
A handful at least ive spoken to on travels woth work (even some vulnerable) say they wont get vaccinated, im my mind thats fair enough who am i to judge them, I guess even more won’t get vaccinated with some countries putting a hold of the AZ, people can and should be able to have a choice.
Ive had my first jab and have second booked in May.
What I wonder is we won’t get to the stage of herd immunity and probably less so with the worries about potential problems with vaccinations so they say.
So it makes you wonder whats the point because it will still keep spreading.
Im glad ive had my first and will be getting my second, but i kind of think im doing this just for my own protection selfishly. |
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"What I wonder is we won’t get to the stage of herd immunity and probably less so with the worries about potential problems with vaccinations so they say.
So it makes you wonder whats the point because it will still keep spreading.
Im glad ive had my first and will be getting my second, but i kind of think im doing this just for my own protection selfishly."
This is why some of us keep banging on about the importance of everyone who medically can being vaccinated. Because the only alternative is that covid keeps spreading, and new strains keep emerging, and all the sacrifices over the last twelve months trying to keep the lid on it will have been utterly meaningless. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What I wonder is we won’t get to the stage of herd immunity and probably less so with the worries about potential problems with vaccinations so they say.
So it makes you wonder whats the point because it will still keep spreading.
Im glad ive had my first and will be getting my second, but i kind of think im doing this just for my own protection selfishly.
This is why some of us keep banging on about the importance of everyone who medically can being vaccinated. Because the only alternative is that covid keeps spreading, and new strains keep emerging, and all the sacrifices over the last twelve months trying to keep the lid on it will have been utterly meaningless."
Yes i agree but i was just thinking about the people who won’t, i have no problem with that because its their choice, but it makes me think realistically there will be a hell of alot of people who decide not too, so ddoes thay mean it will keep going round and round, i can’t wait for normality and a decent night out, but def going to be wary of people. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What I wonder is we won’t get to the stage of herd immunity and probably less so with the worries about potential problems with vaccinations so they say.
So it makes you wonder whats the point because it will still keep spreading.
Im glad ive had my first and will be getting my second, but i kind of think im doing this just for my own protection selfishly.
This is why some of us keep banging on about the importance of everyone who medically can being vaccinated. Because the only alternative is that covid keeps spreading, and new strains keep emerging, and all the sacrifices over the last twelve months trying to keep the lid on it will have been utterly meaningless."
Covid isn’t going anywhere. It isn’t going to disappear and ‘banging on at people’ will only get their backs up instead of making them change their mind. |
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"What I wonder is we won’t get to the stage of herd immunity and probably less so with the worries about potential problems with vaccinations so they say.
So it makes you wonder whats the point because it will still keep spreading.
Im glad ive had my first and will be getting my second, but i kind of think im doing this just for my own protection selfishly.
This is why some of us keep banging on about the importance of everyone who medically can being vaccinated. Because the only alternative is that covid keeps spreading, and new strains keep emerging, and all the sacrifices over the last twelve months trying to keep the lid on it will have been utterly meaningless.
Covid isn’t going anywhere. It isn’t going to disappear and ‘banging on at people’ will only get their backs up instead of making them change their mind. "
No, it's not, but it's topical at the moment.
If people having a debate, in an optional forum where Covid is actually the topic, gets other people's backs up... I'm not sure what to say about that. Are we not allowed to express our views? I don't expect my views to go unchallenged, but I cannot fathom why everyone cannot say what their position is. My view exists, my freedom of expression remains (as does yours). And we need to exist with each other's views in a pluralistic world. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What I wonder is we won’t get to the stage of herd immunity and probably less so with the worries about potential problems with vaccinations so they say.
So it makes you wonder whats the point because it will still keep spreading.
Im glad ive had my first and will be getting my second, but i kind of think im doing this just for my own protection selfishly.
This is why some of us keep banging on about the importance of everyone who medically can being vaccinated. Because the only alternative is that covid keeps spreading, and new strains keep emerging, and all the sacrifices over the last twelve months trying to keep the lid on it will have been utterly meaningless.
Covid isn’t going anywhere. It isn’t going to disappear and ‘banging on at people’ will only get their backs up instead of making them change their mind.
No, it's not, but it's topical at the moment.
If people having a debate, in an optional forum where Covid is actually the topic, gets other people's backs up... I'm not sure what to say about that. Are we not allowed to express our views? I don't expect my views to go unchallenged, but I cannot fathom why everyone cannot say what their position is. My view exists, my freedom of expression remains (as does yours). And we need to exist with each other's views in a pluralistic world. "
There’s a difference in giving your Opinion and ‘Banging on’ at people. |
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"What I wonder is we won’t get to the stage of herd immunity and probably less so with the worries about potential problems with vaccinations so they say.
So it makes you wonder whats the point because it will still keep spreading.
Im glad ive had my first and will be getting my second, but i kind of think im doing this just for my own protection selfishly.
This is why some of us keep banging on about the importance of everyone who medically can being vaccinated. Because the only alternative is that covid keeps spreading, and new strains keep emerging, and all the sacrifices over the last twelve months trying to keep the lid on it will have been utterly meaningless.
Covid isn’t going anywhere. It isn’t going to disappear and ‘banging on at people’ will only get their backs up instead of making them change their mind.
No, it's not, but it's topical at the moment.
If people having a debate, in an optional forum where Covid is actually the topic, gets other people's backs up... I'm not sure what to say about that. Are we not allowed to express our views? I don't expect my views to go unchallenged, but I cannot fathom why everyone cannot say what their position is. My view exists, my freedom of expression remains (as does yours). And we need to exist with each other's views in a pluralistic world.
There’s a difference in giving your Opinion and ‘Banging on’ at people. "
What is that difference?
I tend to find that the line between opinion/debate and banging on depends on preconceived notions of the view in question. I have lower personal tolerance for some views than others - that's my bias. Others the same.
We can't just stop people debating because some find it unpalatable. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What I wonder is we won’t get to the stage of herd immunity and probably less so with the worries about potential problems with vaccinations so they say.
So it makes you wonder whats the point because it will still keep spreading.
Im glad ive had my first and will be getting my second, but i kind of think im doing this just for my own protection selfishly.
This is why some of us keep banging on about the importance of everyone who medically can being vaccinated. Because the only alternative is that covid keeps spreading, and new strains keep emerging, and all the sacrifices over the last twelve months trying to keep the lid on it will have been utterly meaningless.
Covid isn’t going anywhere. It isn’t going to disappear and ‘banging on at people’ will only get their backs up instead of making them change their mind.
No, it's not, but it's topical at the moment.
If people having a debate, in an optional forum where Covid is actually the topic, gets other people's backs up... I'm not sure what to say about that. Are we not allowed to express our views? I don't expect my views to go unchallenged, but I cannot fathom why everyone cannot say what their position is. My view exists, my freedom of expression remains (as does yours). And we need to exist with each other's views in a pluralistic world.
There’s a difference in giving your Opinion and ‘Banging on’ at people.
What is that difference?
I tend to find that the line between opinion/debate and banging on depends on preconceived notions of the view in question. I have lower personal tolerance for some views than others - that's my bias. Others the same.
We can't just stop people debating because some find it unpalatable."
Haha .. Crack on and bang on at people all you like then. It won’t make them change their mind when you keep trying to ram the importance of a vaccination down their throat. They will make their choice to have the vaccine or not regardless. |
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"What I wonder is we won’t get to the stage of herd immunity and probably less so with the worries about potential problems with vaccinations so they say.
So it makes you wonder whats the point because it will still keep spreading.
Im glad ive had my first and will be getting my second, but i kind of think im doing this just for my own protection selfishly.
This is why some of us keep banging on about the importance of everyone who medically can being vaccinated. Because the only alternative is that covid keeps spreading, and new strains keep emerging, and all the sacrifices over the last twelve months trying to keep the lid on it will have been utterly meaningless.
Covid isn’t going anywhere. It isn’t going to disappear and ‘banging on at people’ will only get their backs up instead of making them change their mind.
No, it's not, but it's topical at the moment.
If people having a debate, in an optional forum where Covid is actually the topic, gets other people's backs up... I'm not sure what to say about that. Are we not allowed to express our views? I don't expect my views to go unchallenged, but I cannot fathom why everyone cannot say what their position is. My view exists, my freedom of expression remains (as does yours). And we need to exist with each other's views in a pluralistic world.
There’s a difference in giving your Opinion and ‘Banging on’ at people.
What is that difference?
I tend to find that the line between opinion/debate and banging on depends on preconceived notions of the view in question. I have lower personal tolerance for some views than others - that's my bias. Others the same.
We can't just stop people debating because some find it unpalatable.
Haha .. Crack on and bang on at people all you like then. It won’t make them change their mind when you keep trying to ram the importance of a vaccination down their throat. They will make their choice to have the vaccine or not regardless. "
On what grounds have you determined that I'm banging on rather than debating? Where's the objective line? |
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By *ljamMan
over a year ago
Edinburgh |
"What I wonder is we won’t get to the stage of herd immunity and probably less so with the worries about potential problems with vaccinations so they say.
So it makes you wonder whats the point because it will still keep spreading.
Im glad ive had my first and will be getting my second, but i kind of think im doing this just for my own protection selfishly.
This is why some of us keep banging on about the importance of everyone who medically can being vaccinated. Because the only alternative is that covid keeps spreading, and new strains keep emerging, and all the sacrifices over the last twelve months trying to keep the lid on it will have been utterly meaningless.
Covid isn’t going anywhere. It isn’t going to disappear and ‘banging on at people’ will only get their backs up instead of making them change their mind.
No, it's not, but it's topical at the moment.
If people having a debate, in an optional forum where Covid is actually the topic, gets other people's backs up... I'm not sure what to say about that. Are we not allowed to express our views? I don't expect my views to go unchallenged, but I cannot fathom why everyone cannot say what their position is. My view exists, my freedom of expression remains (as does yours). And we need to exist with each other's views in a pluralistic world.
There’s a difference in giving your Opinion and ‘Banging on’ at people.
What is that difference?
I tend to find that the line between opinion/debate and banging on depends on preconceived notions of the view in question. I have lower personal tolerance for some views than others - that's my bias. Others the same.
We can't just stop people debating because some find it unpalatable.
Haha .. Crack on and bang on at people all you like then. It won’t make them change their mind when you keep trying to ram the importance of a vaccination down their throat. They will make their choice to have the vaccine or not regardless. "
Yeah, some people are just thick as fuck so I have to wonder what the point is in trying to talk sense to them. Can't understand pretty basic information etc. It's just a shame the decisions on these anti-vax morons have the potential to impact other so deeply. |
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"So, for a person like me who lacks any real scientific knowledge, can someone give me a simple yes or no answer to this question, disregarding reasons why a person is not vaccinated against C19.
Who is most at risk, the vaccinated or the unvaccinated person?
Unvaccinated. (But. There's a lot of but.)
Ok. Why are vaccinated people concerned about the unvaccinated being in close contact with them?
If you assume that I have very limited knowledge of the but bits you'd be correct.
One, not all vaccinated people develop protection, or that protection might wane (this is particularly true in older people, but also immune suppressed people, including those with cancer). Those people deserve protection.
Two, there are those who can't be vaccinated: they deserve protection.
Three: we reach herd immunity by getting a maximal number of people vaccinated, so that our personal risk in taking the vaccine (all intervention carries risk) will be of maximal benefit to society.
Four: the more unvaccinated people there are, the more chance the virus has to mutate and we start all this again. I want to see my mum before 2030 "
OK, thank you.
What percentage take up is needed to achieve herd immunity? |
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"So, for a person like me who lacks any real scientific knowledge, can someone give me a simple yes or no answer to this question, disregarding reasons why a person is not vaccinated against C19.
Who is most at risk, the vaccinated or the unvaccinated person?
Unvaccinated. (But. There's a lot of but.)
Ok. Why are vaccinated people concerned about the unvaccinated being in close contact with them?
If you assume that I have very limited knowledge of the but bits you'd be correct.
One, not all vaccinated people develop protection, or that protection might wane (this is particularly true in older people, but also immune suppressed people, including those with cancer). Those people deserve protection.
Two, there are those who can't be vaccinated: they deserve protection.
Three: we reach herd immunity by getting a maximal number of people vaccinated, so that our personal risk in taking the vaccine (all intervention carries risk) will be of maximal benefit to society.
Four: the more unvaccinated people there are, the more chance the virus has to mutate and we start all this again. I want to see my mum before 2030
OK, thank you.
What percentage take up is needed to achieve herd immunity? "
It varies by vaccine and so can be uncertain. The higher the level of efficacy in the real world, the smaller the proportion of people vaccinated to achieve it may be. In trials, which may be different to real world situations, it was very high efficacy. Israeli studies have reflected this in the real world. Figures between 65-90% have been bandied about for herd immunity levels. The higher the efficacy, the lower the number needed to potentially reach herd immunity. If I see recent estimates, I'll add them. 80% would likely be achieved here, due to high levels of take up, though children aren't being vaccinated - if children aren't major sources of infection to others, it doesn't matter as much if not vaccinated |
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"So, for a person like me who lacks any real scientific knowledge, can someone give me a simple yes or no answer to this question, disregarding reasons why a person is not vaccinated against C19.
Who is most at risk, the vaccinated or the unvaccinated person?
Unvaccinated. (But. There's a lot of but.)
Ok. Why are vaccinated people concerned about the unvaccinated being in close contact with them?
If you assume that I have very limited knowledge of the but bits you'd be correct.
One, not all vaccinated people develop protection, or that protection might wane (this is particularly true in older people, but also immune suppressed people, including those with cancer). Those people deserve protection.
Two, there are those who can't be vaccinated: they deserve protection.
Three: we reach herd immunity by getting a maximal number of people vaccinated, so that our personal risk in taking the vaccine (all intervention carries risk) will be of maximal benefit to society.
Four: the more unvaccinated people there are, the more chance the virus has to mutate and we start all this again. I want to see my mum before 2030
OK, thank you.
What percentage take up is needed to achieve herd immunity? "
I don't know for Covid vaccines. In general, it depends on the vaccine effectiveness, the degree of antigenic drift (mutations/ variants - some variants make vaccines less effective as we're seeing), and the R0 of the vaccine. (I believe that for measles, it's an extremely effective vaccine but the R0 of 15-20 means that herd immunity requires over 90% coverage. I gather that's an extreme example)
Basically, herd immunity is building a fence around the vulnerable people, and I want that fence to be as strong as possible so *everyone* can live without fear again. |
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By *hagTonightMan
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
"High unlikely. Its well documented now that the vaccine doesn't stop you from catching it and passing it on,"
You are right there and one still have to keep the distance and to wear a mask. I think that it would take a long time before this sector can open as close contact is a big no no, maibe just for socials or maiby not.
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"Will any swinging clubs be bringing in a "proof of vaccination before entry is allowed" policy?"
I think it is highly likely as they wont want public attention as a outbreak and local authority would only need a decent excuse to close them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You do know the vaccine protects you not others?
Actually its looking very likely that having the vaccine limits the transmission by at least 30% after 2 to 3 weeks of having the first vaccination.
Also the more people that have the vaccine the more protection for all.
Over half the adult population of the UK have now had at least one shot but we need at least another 30% to have it to get a very good change of herd immunity.
We have already established that there's no evidence of this, just speculative opinion.
This vaccine responds to systemic infection and not mucosal infection which is how the virus is transmitted.
Sorry who has a stablished this because it was widely reported that scientists have confirmed that the vaccinations limit transmission I think I would rather listen to a scientist thank you. "
Not widely established at all. It's speculation and based upon some assumptions, which isn't 'science' as some seem to keep banging on about in the hope of shutting up those who are far more cautious.
There cauld also be a number of other reasons for reduced transmission not directly related to anyone being vaccinated. I'm sure the debate will continue though. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"You do know the vaccine protects you not others?
Actually its looking very likely that having the vaccine limits the transmission by at least 30% after 2 to 3 weeks of having the first vaccination.
Also the more people that have the vaccine the more protection for all.
Over half the adult population of the UK have now had at least one shot but we need at least another 30% to have it to get a very good change of herd immunity.
We have already established that there's no evidence of this, just speculative opinion.
This vaccine responds to systemic infection and not mucosal infection which is how the virus is transmitted.
Sorry who has a stablished this because it was widely reported that scientists have confirmed that the vaccinations limit transmission I think I would rather listen to a scientist thank you.
Not widely established at all. It's speculation and based upon some assumptions, which isn't 'science' as some seem to keep banging on about in the hope of shutting up those who are far more cautious.
There cauld also be a number of other reasons for reduced transmission not directly related to anyone being vaccinated. I'm sure the debate will continue though."
Where did I say widely established?
I said it was being widely reported that is a big difference and it has been from many sauces and countries. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why would you want to disciminate against those that havnt had it.its only flu
You wont be saying that when the bodies are piling up in the streets  "
Anyone that says this virus is only flew clearly has never had flu. |
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"Why would you want to disciminate against those that havnt had it.its only flu
You wont be saying that when the bodies are piling up in the streets
Anyone that says this virus is only flew clearly has never had flu."
Or Corona Virus......
12 months. So much information. Still so much naivity.
It's quite a worry.
M
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