FabSwingers.com > Forums > Virus > Unvaccinated
Unvaccinated
Jump to: Newest in thread
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok, so you're unvaccinated for whatever reason ~ you're anti, you've not been called, you're cautious. For the cautious amongst us, and I know there's a few. With the Indian variant here are you more likely to have it now? Simple question. No going off on a tangent now! " Yes | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok, so you're unvaccinated for whatever reason ~ you're anti, you've not been called, you're cautious. For the cautious amongst us, and I know there's a few. With the Indian variant here are you more likely to have it now? Simple question. No going off on a tangent now! " I don't think it would make any difference, it's the number of deaths that should be looked at, and how it has decreased in number of deaths the figures speak for themselves | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok, so you're unvaccinated for whatever reason ~ you're anti, you've not been called, you're cautious. For the cautious amongst us, and I know there's a few. With the Indian variant here are you more likely to have it now? Simple question. No going off on a tangent now! I don't think it would make any difference, it's the number of deaths that should be looked at, and how it has decreased in number of deaths the figures speak for themselves" I'm sure that's a tangent haha. Problem with that strategy is it normally takes 3~4 weeks to see a substantial rise in no of fatalities. By that point infections that could lead to death are out of control. We should have learnt this in October | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence "Happy to just scrounge your health off of other people doing their moral duty. Ace. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok, so you're unvaccinated for whatever reason ~ you're anti, you've not been called, you're cautious. For the cautious amongst us, and I know there's a few. With the Indian variant here are you more likely to have it now? Simple question. No going off on a tangent now! " Nope, it doesn’t make a difference for me. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
Happy to just scrounge your health off of other people doing their moral duty. Ace."Textbook propaganda and attempted guilt shaming. Nice try  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence "There's being prudent and there's being an idiot who reads too much social media crap! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok, so you're unvaccinated for whatever reason ~ you're anti, you've not been called, you're cautious. For the cautious amongst us, and I know there's a few. With the Indian variant here are you more likely to have it now? Simple question. No going off on a tangent now! " It still think this is about other people and not infecting them not whether someone feels healthy and doesn't need it etc or not . So the same feeling applies as a year ago. I think everyone has a moral duty to do it when it is offered to them .. Arguably ( and we have had lots of those on here) it really selfish not doing that.. My thoughts only. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
There's being prudent and there's being an idiot who reads too much social media crap!"You know nothing about me. And why so aggressive?  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok, so you're unvaccinated for whatever reason ~ you're anti, you've not been called, you're cautious. For the cautious amongst us, and I know there's a few. With the Indian variant here are you more likely to have it now? Simple question. No going off on a tangent now! It still think this is about other people and not infecting them not whether someone feels healthy and doesn't need it etc or not . So the same feeling applies as a year ago. I think everyone has a moral duty to do it when it is offered to them .. Arguably ( and we have had lots of those on here) it really selfish not doing that.. My thoughts only. " I think your thoughts are sound. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
Happy to just scrounge your health off of other people doing their moral duty. Ace.
Textbook propaganda and attempted guilt shaming. Nice try "Can you explain which part of that statement is propaganda? It’s becoming quite clear that the vaccination program is working so I’m struggling to see why the criticism is “made up”, they are simply illustrating the point your choices fail to look beyond your own welfare? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
Happy to just scrounge your health off of other people doing their moral duty. Ace.
Textbook propaganda and attempted guilt shaming. Nice try "Rude, aggressive and totally nonsensical with it. Classic. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok, so you're unvaccinated for whatever reason ~ you're anti, you've not been called, you're cautious. For the cautious amongst us, and I know there's a few. With the Indian variant here are you more likely to have it now? Simple question. No going off on a tangent now! " I think for some you can throw all the science and maths you like around but it just does not have the same impact with everyone. For others they need that real world example of a friend, family member or neighbour to make it real. That said the general take up has been pretty impressive, so if some choose not to then that is their choice. They can always reconsider at a later date if something changes their mind. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence "I would have said the same last year about my risk of catching it and becoming unwell.. I took precautions, wearing a mask when in busy areas outdoors and always when in shops; keeping my distance and using hand sanitiser wherever available.. Unfortunately it isn't so simple, there are lots of unknowns at play that are still to be understood.. I was fit and healthy, no health problems at all. I ended up in hospital and now have long covid.. those around me who also caught it, some older than me, some had no symptoms or had it very mild. Im now part of a long covid study group, its scary some of the symptoms people have with long covid and even more scary is the number of people i see when i go for my check ups, far younger than me who also had no underlying health conditions and still end up with long-term problems.. Maybe you should re-analyse your view of the risks vs benefits and include the lesser reported detail of covid side effects against the far greater and possibly over sensationalised reports regarding the risks of having the injection. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence "I'm the same,happy with the tools I have,and not happy about the tools they want to inject in me that I know nothing about. This is one paragraph from a HMR. Require the impact of Regulation 174 of the HMR to be formally reviewed within a year of any first use. Regulation 174 is the existing mechanism which allows for the temporary authorisation of an unlicensed medicine or vaccine. Unlicensed medicine? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
I would have said the same last year about my risk of catching it and becoming unwell..
I took precautions, wearing a mask when in busy areas outdoors and always when in shops; keeping my distance and using hand sanitiser wherever available..
Unfortunately it isn't so simple, there are lots of unknowns at play that are still to be understood..
I was fit and healthy, no health problems at all.
I ended up in hospital and now have long covid.. those around me who also caught it, some older than me, some had no symptoms or had it very mild.
Im now part of a long covid study group, its scary some of the symptoms people have with long covid and even more scary is the number of people i see when i go for my check ups, far younger than me who also had no underlying health conditions and still end up with long-term problems..
Maybe you should re-analyse your view of the risks vs benefits and include the lesser reported detail of covid side effects against the far greater and possibly over sensationalised reports regarding the risks of having the injection."I'm sorry you've had issues and wish you a full recovery. Again, I bring up the issue of risk analysis. Odds are likely it wouldn't affect me heavily, though nothing is guaranteed. This I know. The covid shots are a complete unknown and given everything surrounding their hasty development, taking them seems too much a risk for me. Everyone has admitted they won't prevent infection, re infenction or transmission. The reports of adverse events are piling up at an alarming rate. My view still stands. When clinical trials are complete I might change my mind. Until then, no chance. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
I'm the same,happy with the tools I have,and not happy about the tools they want to inject in me that I know nothing about.
This is one paragraph from a HMR.
Require the impact of Regulation 174 of the HMR to be formally reviewed within a year of any first use.
Regulation 174 is the existing mechanism which allows for the temporary authorisation of an unlicensed medicine or vaccine.
Unlicensed medicine?
"Oh lord, what’s that phrase about people with a tiny bit of knowledge? For your own sake I’d suggest if you want to hang on every word and detail read up fully on the process that people have had to go through to ensure they are delivering a safe vaccine to market. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Unsurprisingly, there’s a mix of thoughtful, sensible people in this debate and selfish people. I hate injections - but can’t wait for my 2nd dose and greater assurance that I’ll be ok - and so will those people that I come across." I'm actually getting over my needle phobia through this. It's interesting | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
Happy to just scrounge your health off of other people doing their moral duty. Ace.
Textbook propaganda and attempted guilt shaming. Nice try "It's time to put your big boy pants on, man up and get the little injection it's realy nothing to be scared of | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
I would have said the same last year about my risk of catching it and becoming unwell..
I took precautions, wearing a mask when in busy areas outdoors and always when in shops; keeping my distance and using hand sanitiser wherever available..
Unfortunately it isn't so simple, there are lots of unknowns at play that are still to be understood..
I was fit and healthy, no health problems at all.
I ended up in hospital and now have long covid.. those around me who also caught it, some older than me, some had no symptoms or had it very mild.
Im now part of a long covid study group, its scary some of the symptoms people have with long covid and even more scary is the number of people i see when i go for my check ups, far younger than me who also had no underlying health conditions and still end up with long-term problems..
Maybe you should re-analyse your view of the risks vs benefits and include the lesser reported detail of covid side effects against the far greater and possibly over sensationalised reports regarding the risks of having the injection.
I'm sorry you've had issues and wish you a full recovery.
Again, I bring up the issue of risk analysis. Odds are likely it wouldn't affect me heavily, though nothing is guaranteed. This I know.
The covid shots are a complete unknown and given everything surrounding their hasty development, taking them seems too much a risk for me. Everyone has admitted they won't prevent infection, re infenction or transmission. The reports of adverse events are piling up at an alarming rate.
My view still stands. When clinical trials are complete I might change my mind. Until then, no chance."Could you explain why the other posters statement was as you say propaganda? I still don’t really see anything to suggest it was. Everything you’ve vocalised is about your choice, your views, your research... that gives me a view that actually your decision is based purely around yourself with no regard for others health within this equation. You are of course very entitled to make that choice in this country, I’ve treated many patients with the same view and respect their choice but, I do think if that is the case you should own it, suggesting another poster illustrating that point is spreading propaganda makes your opinion look very weak and flawed to be honest. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
I'm the same,happy with the tools I have,and not happy about the tools they want to inject in me that I know nothing about.
This is one paragraph from a HMR.
Require the impact of Regulation 174 of the HMR to be formally reviewed within a year of any first use.
Regulation 174 is the existing mechanism which allows for the temporary authorisation of an unlicensed medicine or vaccine.
Unlicensed medicine?
Oh lord, what’s that phrase about people with a tiny bit of knowledge?
For your own sake I’d suggest if you want to hang on every word and detail read up fully on the process that people have had to go through to ensure they are delivering a safe vaccine to market. "I never said there wasn't trials done,I said there's not as much time put in to it as they normally would be due to the pandemic needing a vaccine. 174 is actually on the uk practical law site,and the human medicine regulations act is a real. I'm no scaremonger,nor am I one of these who think covid isnt real,one day I may get the vaccine, but in these early days when it's been released in an emergency...no. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
I would have said the same last year about my risk of catching it and becoming unwell..
I took precautions, wearing a mask when in busy areas outdoors and always when in shops; keeping my distance and using hand sanitiser wherever available..
Unfortunately it isn't so simple, there are lots of unknowns at play that are still to be understood..
I was fit and healthy, no health problems at all.
I ended up in hospital and now have long covid.. those around me who also caught it, some older than me, some had no symptoms or had it very mild.
Im now part of a long covid study group, its scary some of the symptoms people have with long covid and even more scary is the number of people i see when i go for my check ups, far younger than me who also had no underlying health conditions and still end up with long-term problems..
Maybe you should re-analyse your view of the risks vs benefits and include the lesser reported detail of covid side effects against the far greater and possibly over sensationalised reports regarding the risks of having the injection.
I'm sorry you've had issues and wish you a full recovery.
Again, I bring up the issue of risk analysis. Odds are likely it wouldn't affect me heavily, though nothing is guaranteed. This I know.
The covid shots are a complete unknown and given everything surrounding their hasty development, taking them seems too much a risk for me. Everyone has admitted they won't prevent infection, re infenction or transmission. The reports of adverse events are piling up at an alarming rate.
My view still stands. When clinical trials are complete I might change my mind. Until then, no chance."There are also more conventional vaccines coming online which may change equations. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
I would have said the same last year about my risk of catching it and becoming unwell..
I took precautions, wearing a mask when in busy areas outdoors and always when in shops; keeping my distance and using hand sanitiser wherever available..
Unfortunately it isn't so simple, there are lots of unknowns at play that are still to be understood..
I was fit and healthy, no health problems at all.
I ended up in hospital and now have long covid.. those around me who also caught it, some older than me, some had no symptoms or had it very mild.
Im now part of a long covid study group, its scary some of the symptoms people have with long covid and even more scary is the number of people i see when i go for my check ups, far younger than me who also had no underlying health conditions and still end up with long-term problems..
Maybe you should re-analyse your view of the risks vs benefits and include the lesser reported detail of covid side effects against the far greater and possibly over sensationalised reports regarding the risks of having the injection.
I'm sorry you've had issues and wish you a full recovery.
Again, I bring up the issue of risk analysis. Odds are likely it wouldn't affect me heavily, though nothing is guaranteed. This I know.
The covid shots are a complete unknown and given everything surrounding their hasty development, taking them seems too much a risk for me. Everyone has admitted they won't prevent infection, re infenction or transmission. The reports of adverse events are piling up at an alarming rate.
My view still stands. When clinical trials are complete I might change my mind. Until then, no chance.
There are also more conventional vaccines coming online which may change equations."I'm on a trial for a traditional attenuated vaccine. You're welcome. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
I'm the same,happy with the tools I have,and not happy about the tools they want to inject in me that I know nothing about.
This is one paragraph from a HMR.
Require the impact of Regulation 174 of the HMR to be formally reviewed within a year of any first use.
Regulation 174 is the existing mechanism which allows for the temporary authorisation of an unlicensed medicine or vaccine.
Unlicensed medicine?
Oh lord, what’s that phrase about people with a tiny bit of knowledge?
For your own sake I’d suggest if you want to hang on every word and detail read up fully on the process that people have had to go through to ensure they are delivering a safe vaccine to market.
I never said there wasn't trials done,I said there's not as much time put in to it as they normally would be due to the pandemic needing a vaccine.
174 is actually on the uk practical law site,and the human medicine regulations act is a real.
I'm no scaremonger,nor am I one of these who think covid isnt real,one day I may get the vaccine, but in these early days when it's been released in an emergency...no.
"I just find it amazing people can take a principled “science/risk” stance when it comes to vaccination. It’s a very easy to subject to self educate on. Risk is part of human life, the chances of complications are tiny, the chance of those complications being severe or long lasting are a whole new level of tiny on top of that. You will have taken far greater “risks” in your life, that’s pretty much guaranteed. It’s a shame you vocalise this subject as a far greater risk than in reality it is. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence "You say you “researched it”. I'm not sure you did. Did you complete a literature review and write abstracts on each article? Or better yet, did you collect a random sample of sources and perform independent probability statistics on the reported results? No, no you didn’t. Did you at least take each article, one by one and look into the source, (that’s would be the author, publisher and funder) then critique the writing for logical fallacies, cognitive distortions and plain inaccuracies? No, no you didn’t. Did you ask yourself why this source might publish these particular results? Did you follow the trail of refences and apply the same source of scrutiny to them? No, no you didn’t. No to all? Then you didn’t research anything. You read or watched a video, most likely with little or no objectivity. You came across something in your algorithm manipulated feed, something that aligned with your implicit biases and served your confirmation bias, and subsequently applied your emotional filters and called it proof. E | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A temporary authorisation of the supply of an unlicensed vaccine could be given by the UK’s licensing authority under regulation 174 of the Human Medicines Regulations (see below). A COVID-19 vaccine would only be authorised in this way if the UK’s licensing authority was satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate the safety, quality and efficacy of the vaccine. ‘Unlicensed’ does not mean ‘untested’: this temporary authorisation process exists to address the possibility that, in certain situations of public health need, the licensing authority may consider that the balance of risk and benefit to patients justifies the temporary supply of the relevant vaccine pending the issue of a product licence. Regulation 345 of the Human Medicine Regulations transposes into UK law a requirement of EU law that key actors in the medicines supply chain cannot generally be sued in the civil courts for the consequences resulting from the use of an unlicensed product, or a new use of a licensed product, that a national licensing authority is recommending in order to deal with certain specific health threats. Read the above,its basically saying it's a chance they'll take. This is actually on the gov.uk website,so that's from the top. (this temporary authorisation process exists to address the possibility that, in certain situations of public health need, the licensing authority may consider that the balance of risk and benefit to patients justifies the temporary supply of the relevant vaccine pending the issue of a product licence)" I see this. " A COVID-19 vaccine would only be authorised in this way if the UK’s licensing authority was satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate the safety, quality and efficacy of the vaccine." What's the problem, then? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A temporary authorisation of the supply of an unlicensed vaccine could be given by the UK’s licensing authority under regulation 174 of the Human Medicines Regulations (see below). A COVID-19 vaccine would only be authorised in this way if the UK’s licensing authority was satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate the safety, quality and efficacy of the vaccine. ‘Unlicensed’ does not mean ‘untested’: this temporary authorisation process exists to address the possibility that, in certain situations of public health need, the licensing authority may consider that the balance of risk and benefit to patients justifies the temporary supply of the relevant vaccine pending the issue of a product licence. Regulation 345 of the Human Medicine Regulations transposes into UK law a requirement of EU law that key actors in the medicines supply chain cannot generally be sued in the civil courts for the consequences resulting from the use of an unlicensed product, or a new use of a licensed product, that a national licensing authority is recommending in order to deal with certain specific health threats. Read the above,its basically saying it's a chance they'll take. This is actually on the gov.uk website,so that's from the top. (this temporary authorisation process exists to address the possibility that, in certain situations of public health need, the licensing authority may consider that the balance of risk and benefit to patients justifies the temporary supply of the relevant vaccine pending the issue of a product licence) I see this. " A COVID-19 vaccine would only be authorised in this way if the UK’s licensing authority was satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate the safety, quality and efficacy of the vaccine." What's the problem, then?" No problem,but if theres a window,I bet the safety,quality and efficancy was within the minimum requirements for release,because it takes years to test vaccines thoroughly before release,they couldn't wait years. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
I would have said the same last year about my risk of catching it and becoming unwell..
I took precautions, wearing a mask when in busy areas outdoors and always when in shops; keeping my distance and using hand sanitiser wherever available..
Unfortunately it isn't so simple, there are lots of unknowns at play that are still to be understood..
I was fit and healthy, no health problems at all.
I ended up in hospital and now have long covid.. those around me who also caught it, some older than me, some had no symptoms or had it very mild.
Im now part of a long covid study group, its scary some of the symptoms people have with long covid and even more scary is the number of people i see when i go for my check ups, far younger than me who also had no underlying health conditions and still end up with long-term problems..
Maybe you should re-analyse your view of the risks vs benefits and include the lesser reported detail of covid side effects against the far greater and possibly over sensationalised reports regarding the risks of having the injection.
I'm sorry you've had issues and wish you a full recovery.
Again, I bring up the issue of risk analysis. Odds are likely it wouldn't affect me heavily, though nothing is guaranteed. This I know.
The covid shots are a complete unknown and given everything surrounding their hasty development, taking them seems too much a risk for me. Everyone has admitted they won't prevent infection, re infenction or transmission. The reports of adverse events are piling up at an alarming rate.
My view still stands. When clinical trials are complete I might change my mind. Until then, no chance.
Could you explain why the other posters statement was as you say propaganda?
I still don’t really see anything to suggest it was. Everything you’ve vocalised is about your choice, your views, your research... that gives me a view that actually your decision is based purely around yourself with no regard for others health within this equation.
You are of course very entitled to make that choice in this country, I’ve treated many patients with the same view and respect their choice but, I do think if that is the case you should own it, suggesting another poster illustrating that point is spreading propaganda makes your opinion look very weak and flawed to be honest."And guilt shaming doesn't weaken an opinion as well? Propaganda, yes. The constant non stop fear mongering by the media, collective calls to "do your part" and only hearing one side of the arguement 24/7. If there was actual debate the media would've extensively covered the scientific paper submitted to the EMA challenging the Corman-Drosten paper and the open letter submitted to the EMA re serious scientific concerns with the covid shots. They would also be publishing regularly updated lists w/ adverse events following vaccination instead of just the daily number of new "cases". | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A temporary authorisation of the supply of an unlicensed vaccine could be given by the UK’s licensing authority under regulation 174 of the Human Medicines Regulations (see below). A COVID-19 vaccine would only be authorised in this way if the UK’s licensing authority was satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate the safety, quality and efficacy of the vaccine. ‘Unlicensed’ does not mean ‘untested’: this temporary authorisation process exists to address the possibility that, in certain situations of public health need, the licensing authority may consider that the balance of risk and benefit to patients justifies the temporary supply of the relevant vaccine pending the issue of a product licence. Regulation 345 of the Human Medicine Regulations transposes into UK law a requirement of EU law that key actors in the medicines supply chain cannot generally be sued in the civil courts for the consequences resulting from the use of an unlicensed product, or a new use of a licensed product, that a national licensing authority is recommending in order to deal with certain specific health threats. Read the above,its basically saying it's a chance they'll take. This is actually on the gov.uk website,so that's from the top. (this temporary authorisation process exists to address the possibility that, in certain situations of public health need, the licensing authority may consider that the balance of risk and benefit to patients justifies the temporary supply of the relevant vaccine pending the issue of a product licence) I see this. " A COVID-19 vaccine would only be authorised in this way if the UK’s licensing authority was satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate the safety, quality and efficacy of the vaccine." What's the problem, then? No problem,but if theres a window,I bet the safety,quality and efficancy was within the minimum requirements for release,because it takes years to test vaccines thoroughly before release,they couldn't wait years. " You bet? Ok. It's obviously a terrible idea then. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The guilt shaming in society needs to stop,in the end everyone should be happy. The people who've all had it are happy,all the people who are against it have no quarrel with each other as they all on the same page,so at the end of the day the people who were all for it have what they want,they protected,the people who don't want it,all understand that we all have our own reasons. You get people saying its selfish for not taking the vaccine,but if all the people who want it are protected,then don't worry,you're safe,the only people who risk getting is the anti vaccine people,and they all understand the risk and what tools they have. And if the users say it's not 100% safe so we could still get covid...why the fuck pump your body full of it then if it's not 100%." No vaccine in history is 100% effective for every person. Yet somehow they all managed to erridicate many diseases right? The scientists would have been happy to get 70% effective the fact 95 and more has been achieved makes it one of the most successful vaccines. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A temporary authorisation of the supply of an unlicensed vaccine could be given by the UK’s licensing authority under regulation 174 of the Human Medicines Regulations (see below). A COVID-19 vaccine would only be authorised in this way if the UK’s licensing authority was satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate the safety, quality and efficacy of the vaccine. ‘Unlicensed’ does not mean ‘untested’: this temporary authorisation process exists to address the possibility that, in certain situations of public health need, the licensing authority may consider that the balance of risk and benefit to patients justifies the temporary supply of the relevant vaccine pending the issue of a product licence. Regulation 345 of the Human Medicine Regulations transposes into UK law a requirement of EU law that key actors in the medicines supply chain cannot generally be sued in the civil courts for the consequences resulting from the use of an unlicensed product, or a new use of a licensed product, that a national licensing authority is recommending in order to deal with certain specific health threats. Read the above,its basically saying it's a chance they'll take. This is actually on the gov.uk website,so that's from the top. (this temporary authorisation process exists to address the possibility that, in certain situations of public health need, the licensing authority may consider that the balance of risk and benefit to patients justifies the temporary supply of the relevant vaccine pending the issue of a product licence) I see this. " A COVID-19 vaccine would only be authorised in this way if the UK’s licensing authority was satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate the safety, quality and efficacy of the vaccine." What's the problem, then? No problem,but if theres a window,I bet the safety,quality and efficancy was within the minimum requirements for release,because it takes years to test vaccines thoroughly before release,they couldn't wait years. " People (not you as I read it...) really do love clinging on to this timescale as some implicit proof of something. Much of the timescale is just procedure, and the fact that there are a myriad of drugs all being tested concurrently so not getting the focus. Much is also what we can call "red tape" if we so choose. So much of it can be trivially condensed and expedited when the will is there, as was the case here. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
You say you “researched it”.
I'm not sure you did.
Did you complete a literature review and write abstracts on each article? Or better yet, did you collect a random sample of sources and perform independent probability statistics on the reported results? No, no you didn’t.
Did you at least take each article, one by one and look into the source, (that’s would be the author, publisher and funder) then critique the writing for logical fallacies, cognitive distortions and plain inaccuracies? No, no you didn’t.
Did you ask yourself why this source might publish these particular results? Did you follow the trail of refences and apply the same source of scrutiny to them? No, no you didn’t.
No to all? Then you didn’t research anything.
You read or watched a video, most likely with little or no objectivity.
You came across something in your algorithm manipulated feed, something that aligned with your implicit biases and served your confirmation bias, and subsequently applied your emotional filters and called it proof.
E
"Have you? When there are internationally recognised experts and scientists in the fields re this issue as well as doctors expressing serious concerns would you dismiss them? I didn't, they made a more compelling arguement based on facts and rationale. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A temporary authorisation of the supply of an unlicensed vaccine could be given by the UK’s licensing authority under regulation 174 of the Human Medicines Regulations (see below). A COVID-19 vaccine would only be authorised in this way if the UK’s licensing authority was satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate the safety, quality and efficacy of the vaccine. ‘Unlicensed’ does not mean ‘untested’: this temporary authorisation process exists to address the possibility that, in certain situations of public health need, the licensing authority may consider that the balance of risk and benefit to patients justifies the temporary supply of the relevant vaccine pending the issue of a product licence. Regulation 345 of the Human Medicine Regulations transposes into UK law a requirement of EU law that key actors in the medicines supply chain cannot generally be sued in the civil courts for the consequences resulting from the use of an unlicensed product, or a new use of a licensed product, that a national licensing authority is recommending in order to deal with certain specific health threats. Read the above,its basically saying it's a chance they'll take. This is actually on the gov.uk website,so that's from the top. (this temporary authorisation process exists to address the possibility that, in certain situations of public health need, the licensing authority may consider that the balance of risk and benefit to patients justifies the temporary supply of the relevant vaccine pending the issue of a product licence)" This is a legal statement, it’s a bit like the shit you read on the back of a credit arrangement. The important question is how did AZ, Pfizer and Now Moderna “demonstrate the safety, quality and efficacy of the vaccine”. Read up on all three, their testing and their results. Then perhaps give some credit to those people who are responsible for the enviable position we are in today. At the height of this pandemic I held the hand of 18 people passing away in a single 12 hour periiod, it’s now 3.5 weeks since we’ve had a fatality within our department. I alongside every single person working on the very frontline of this epidemic realise this vaccines worth. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Thanks for the reies so far. No arguing please ~ its only Monday "Shame only one of the replies was a yes/no. Amusing how people cant just answer yes/no without forcing their opinion on others. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A temporary authorisation of the supply of an unlicensed vaccine could be given by the UK’s licensing authority under regulation 174 of the Human Medicines Regulations (see below). A COVID-19 vaccine would only be authorised in this way if the UK’s licensing authority was satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate the safety, quality and efficacy of the vaccine. ‘Unlicensed’ does not mean ‘untested’: this temporary authorisation process exists to address the possibility that, in certain situations of public health need, the licensing authority may consider that the balance of risk and benefit to patients justifies the temporary supply of the relevant vaccine pending the issue of a product licence. Regulation 345 of the Human Medicine Regulations transposes into UK law a requirement of EU law that key actors in the medicines supply chain cannot generally be sued in the civil courts for the consequences resulting from the use of an unlicensed product, or a new use of a licensed product, that a national licensing authority is recommending in order to deal with certain specific health threats. Read the above,its basically saying it's a chance they'll take. This is actually on the gov.uk website,so that's from the top. (this temporary authorisation process exists to address the possibility that, in certain situations of public health need, the licensing authority may consider that the balance of risk and benefit to patients justifies the temporary supply of the relevant vaccine pending the issue of a product licence) I see this. " A COVID-19 vaccine would only be authorised in this way if the UK’s licensing authority was satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate the safety, quality and efficacy of the vaccine." What's the problem, then? No problem,but if theres a window,I bet the safety,quality and efficancy was within the minimum requirements for release,because it takes years to test vaccines thoroughly before release,they couldn't wait years. You bet? Ok. It's obviously a terrible idea then." Of course it's not a bad idea, if theres a chance it's going to save more lives than lives covid is going to take,then it's a great idea,but it's a risk people have to take,and it's a risk I dont want to take,as I'm healthy,I've a strong immune system,no underlying health issues etc...so I'm happy with the tools I have. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok, so you're unvaccinated for whatever reason ~ you're anti, you've not been called, you're cautious. For the cautious amongst us, and I know there's a few. With the Indian variant here are you more likely to have it now? Simple question. No going off on a tangent now! I don't think it would make any difference, it's the number of deaths that should be looked at, and how it has decreased in number of deaths the figures speak for themselves" And as qw found with the 2nd wave that can change. Viruses are a life form and like all life forms.they evolve | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
I would have said the same last year about my risk of catching it and becoming unwell..
I took precautions, wearing a mask when in busy areas outdoors and always when in shops; keeping my distance and using hand sanitiser wherever available..
Unfortunately it isn't so simple, there are lots of unknowns at play that are still to be understood..
I was fit and healthy, no health problems at all.
I ended up in hospital and now have long covid.. those around me who also caught it, some older than me, some had no symptoms or had it very mild.
Im now part of a long covid study group, its scary some of the symptoms people have with long covid and even more scary is the number of people i see when i go for my check ups, far younger than me who also had no underlying health conditions and still end up with long-term problems..
Maybe you should re-analyse your view of the risks vs benefits and include the lesser reported detail of covid side effects against the far greater and possibly over sensationalised reports regarding the risks of having the injection.
I'm sorry you've had issues and wish you a full recovery.
Again, I bring up the issue of risk analysis. Odds are likely it wouldn't affect me heavily, though nothing is guaranteed. This I know.
The covid shots are a complete unknown and given everything surrounding their hasty development, taking them seems too much a risk for me. Everyone has admitted they won't prevent infection, re infenction or transmission. The reports of adverse events are piling up at an alarming rate.
My view still stands. When clinical trials are complete I might change my mind. Until then, no chance.
Could you explain why the other posters statement was as you say propaganda?
I still don’t really see anything to suggest it was. Everything you’ve vocalised is about your choice, your views, your research... that gives me a view that actually your decision is based purely around yourself with no regard for others health within this equation.
You are of course very entitled to make that choice in this country, I’ve treated many patients with the same view and respect their choice but, I do think if that is the case you should own it, suggesting another poster illustrating that point is spreading propaganda makes your opinion look very weak and flawed to be honest.
And guilt shaming doesn't weaken an opinion as well?
Propaganda, yes. The constant non stop fear mongering by the media, collective calls to "do your part" and only hearing one side of the arguement 24/7. If there was actual debate the media would've extensively covered the scientific paper submitted to the EMA challenging the Corman-Drosten paper and the open letter submitted to the EMA re serious scientific concerns with the covid shots. They would also be publishing regularly updated lists w/ adverse events following vaccination instead of just the daily number of new "cases"."A vaccine requires the numbers, it required the greater population to do their part, that’s not propaganda it’s mere fact. The incidents of adverse affects are published and available, I think as of last week the numbers stood at 240 ish within the entire U.K. vaccination program of which all have successfully regained full health in a very short period of time. Perhaps the lack of reporting/debate on this subject is simply because there’s no story, there’s nothing to debate. It would be like the BBC reporting the number of alcohol related admissions on a pre covid Saturday night and calling for a halt to the brewing industry. As I said, I respect your choice regardless of how selfish and ridiculous it appears to me, you shouldn’t however brand another’s view “propaganda” when the reality is they are just making the view that your own choices disregard anyone else’s well being, sadly that’s just truthful. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
I would have said the same last year about my risk of catching it and becoming unwell..
I took precautions, wearing a mask when in busy areas outdoors and always when in shops; keeping my distance and using hand sanitiser wherever available..
Unfortunately it isn't so simple, there are lots of unknowns at play that are still to be understood..
I was fit and healthy, no health problems at all.
I ended up in hospital and now have long covid.. those around me who also caught it, some older than me, some had no symptoms or had it very mild.
Im now part of a long covid study group, its scary some of the symptoms people have with long covid and even more scary is the number of people i see when i go for my check ups, far younger than me who also had no underlying health conditions and still end up with long-term problems..
Maybe you should re-analyse your view of the risks vs benefits and include the lesser reported detail of covid side effects against the far greater and possibly over sensationalised reports regarding the risks of having the injection.
I'm sorry you've had issues and wish you a full recovery.
Again, I bring up the issue of risk analysis. Odds are likely it wouldn't affect me heavily, though nothing is guaranteed. This I know.
The covid shots are a complete unknown and given everything surrounding their hasty development, taking them seems too much a risk for me. Everyone has admitted they won't prevent infection, re infenction or transmission. The reports of adverse events are piling up at an alarming rate.
My view still stands. When clinical trials are complete I might change my mind. Until then, no chance."Op, Thanks for the well wishes.. I can fully understand your concerns that the vaccines do seem to have been rolled out hastily, however there are years of research behind them that allowed them to be completed as quickly as they were. I wish there was something that could be said that would put your mind at rest over the safety of the vaccine.. there isn't.. Unfortunately the negatives always get reported far more than the positives. Its difficult to adequately work out risk for different age groups simply because the data on long covid does not exist; only simple metrics are available and they are the incorrect data to use as they focus on hospitalisation and death which is mainly associated with older people or those with health conditions. It has been proved (with data from the more vulnerable) that having the injection does reduce your risk of becoming unwell with covid significantly (although the factors why some people can catch covid a second time or after having the injection is still in debate; one suggestion is some people have compromised immune systems and cannot produce sufficient antibodies to prevent re-infection) The real risks to consider are of catching the virus and what the potential long term risks to your personal health are.. I used to run 5k or more several times a week, i now cannot get past week 2 or couch to 5k. I have permanent pains in my legs and joints and haven't slept properly in months. Brain fog comes and goes, some days i struggle to remember names of words; really embarrassing when i talk with people and have to explain that i am not an idiot just because i cannot articulate myself. I will probably never scuba dive again unless there is a significant improvment in my health. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Of course it's not a bad idea, if theres a chance it's going to save more lives than lives covid is going to take,then it's a great idea,but it's a risk people have to take,and it's a risk I dont want to take,as I'm healthy,I've a strong immune system,no underlying health issues etc...so I'm happy with the tools I have." This. A lot of people passing judgement on other people’s choices, you see on one post some people saying they have little issue with people choosing not to have it then either in the same thread or another criticising people for again, choosing not to. The wife has had both of her jabs as she was apparently vulnerable. I, however very rarely get sick. I’m relatively young, if I get vaccinated and then catch covid, I still have to isolate and it’s still up for debate whether the vaccine even reduces transmission. That’s not me being anti-vax or anti-covid, I’d rather and I’d encourage people that actually need it to get it, we still socially distance and wear masks so we still do our bit. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Love the whole done my research thing !! it's implying that the actual "Scientists" haven't ??? and so you know better ?? or that the "Scientists" missed something that only the very few special ones on tinternet/facebook have found just after ordering stuff ..." On the contrary the information is freely available to all, people just choose to ignore it, or spin it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
Happy to just scrounge your health off of other people doing their moral duty. Ace.
Textbook propaganda and attempted guilt shaming. Nice try " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Well done you. I work in NHS and have no intention of getting the so called vaccine. The MSM are pushing an agenda along with S.A.G.E. Yes there is a virus. probably twice as bad as a bad flu. Death figures are not accurate. Reduction of 24% so far on cases called covid deaths with people who had underlying issues. Lastly, why did government change the recording of deaths in June to dying with in 28 days of a positive test?" I'm guessing / hoping you work in the car park? Wearing the tin foil hat inside a hospital must be really awkward. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence "Probably one of the best arguements against the vaccine. However, if to go abroad on holiday you are required to show Vaccine Certificate would this change your mind.. Might not be the UK, but for example if Spain, American, Dubai all asked for proof of vaccination otherwise its a no go what would you do? Interested to hear reply. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
I would have said the same last year about my risk of catching it and becoming unwell..
I took precautions, wearing a mask when in busy areas outdoors and always when in shops; keeping my distance and using hand sanitiser wherever available..
Unfortunately it isn't so simple, there are lots of unknowns at play that are still to be understood..
I was fit and healthy, no health problems at all.
I ended up in hospital and now have long covid.. those around me who also caught it, some older than me, some had no symptoms or had it very mild.
Im now part of a long covid study group, its scary some of the symptoms people have with long covid and even more scary is the number of people i see when i go for my check ups, far younger than me who also had no underlying health conditions and still end up with long-term problems..
Maybe you should re-analyse your view of the risks vs benefits and include the lesser reported detail of covid side effects against the far greater and possibly over sensationalised reports regarding the risks of having the injection.
I'm sorry you've had issues and wish you a full recovery.
Again, I bring up the issue of risk analysis. Odds are likely it wouldn't affect me heavily, though nothing is guaranteed. This I know.
The covid shots are a complete unknown and given everything surrounding their hasty development, taking them seems too much a risk for me. Everyone has admitted they won't prevent infection, re infenction or transmission. The reports of adverse events are piling up at an alarming rate.
My view still stands. When clinical trials are complete I might change my mind. Until then, no chance.
Op,
Thanks for the well wishes..
I can fully understand your concerns that the vaccines do seem to have been rolled out hastily, however there are years of research behind them that allowed them to be completed as quickly as they were.
I wish there was something that could be said that would put your mind at rest over the safety of the vaccine.. there isn't..
Unfortunately the negatives always get reported far more than the positives.
Its difficult to adequately work out risk for different age groups simply because the data on long covid does not exist; only simple metrics are available and they are the incorrect data to use as they focus on hospitalisation and death which is mainly associated with older people or those with health conditions.
It has been proved (with data from the more vulnerable) that having the injection does reduce your risk of becoming unwell with covid significantly (although the factors why some people can catch covid a second time or after having the injection is still in debate; one suggestion is some people have compromised immune systems and cannot produce sufficient antibodies to prevent re-infection)
The real risks to consider are of catching the virus and what the potential long term risks to your personal health are..
I used to run 5k or more several times a week, i now cannot get past week 2 or couch to 5k.
I have permanent pains in my legs and joints and haven't slept properly in months.
Brain fog comes and goes, some days i struggle to remember names of words; really embarrassing when i talk with people and have to explain that i am not an idiot just because i cannot articulate myself.
I will probably never scuba dive again unless there is a significant improvment in my health. "Just a suggestion - research Ivermectin and long covid, I have heard favorable reports, though not looked into it yet. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Well done you. I work in NHS and have no intention of getting the so called vaccine. The MSM are pushing an agenda along with S.A.G.E. Yes there is a virus. probably twice as bad as a bad flu. Death figures are not accurate. Reduction of 24% so far on cases called covid deaths with people who had underlying issues. Lastly, why did government change the recording of deaths in June to dying with in 28 days of a positive test?" You’ll be walking away from your job then sadly, I’m surprised an NHS worker isn’t aware that as with Hep B vaccination is well on its way to becoming mandatory for us all... surprised you haven’t been kicking off on that subject with your perilous position.  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
Probably one of the best arguements against the vaccine. However, if to go abroad on holiday you are required to show Vaccine Certificate would this change your mind.. Might not be the UK, but for example if Spain, American, Dubai all asked for proof of vaccination otherwise its a no go what would you do?
Interested to hear reply."Most will take a negative or antibody test. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A temporary authorisation of the supply of an unlicensed vaccine could be given by the UK’s licensing authority under regulation 174 of the Human Medicines Regulations (see below). A COVID-19 vaccine would only be authorised in this way if the UK’s licensing authority was satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate the safety, quality and efficacy of the vaccine. ‘Unlicensed’ does not mean ‘untested’: this temporary authorisation process exists to address the possibility that, in certain situations of public health need, the licensing authority may consider that the balance of risk and benefit to patients justifies the temporary supply of the relevant vaccine pending the issue of a product licence. Regulation 345 of the Human Medicine Regulations transposes into UK law a requirement of EU law that key actors in the medicines supply chain cannot generally be sued in the civil courts for the consequences resulting from the use of an unlicensed product, or a new use of a licensed product, that a national licensing authority is recommending in order to deal with certain specific health threats. Read the above,its basically saying it's a chance they'll take. This is actually on the gov.uk website,so that's from the top. (this temporary authorisation process exists to address the possibility that, in certain situations of public health need, the licensing authority may consider that the balance of risk and benefit to patients justifies the temporary supply of the relevant vaccine pending the issue of a product licence) I see this. " A COVID-19 vaccine would only be authorised in this way if the UK’s licensing authority was satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate the safety, quality and efficacy of the vaccine." What's the problem, then? No problem,but if theres a window,I bet the safety,quality and efficancy was within the minimum requirements for release,because it takes years to test vaccines thoroughly before release,they couldn't wait years. You bet? Ok. It's obviously a terrible idea then. Of course it's not a bad idea, if theres a chance it's going to save more lives than lives covid is going to take,then it's a great idea,but it's a risk people have to take,and it's a risk I dont want to take,as I'm healthy,I've a strong immune system,no underlying health issues etc...so I'm happy with the tools I have." We're speaking from very different perspectives. My personal risk is also very low. I have no relevant comorbidities, I'm pretty young, I have a high level of fitness, I work from home. I'm not doing this for me. I'm doing it for those who aren't as lucky. And the more who do, the safer we'll all be, because of herd immunity. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A temporary authorisation of the supply of an unlicensed vaccine could be given by the UK’s licensing authority under regulation 174 of the Human Medicines Regulations (see below). A COVID-19 vaccine would only be authorised in this way if the UK’s licensing authority was satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate the safety, quality and efficacy of the vaccine. ‘Unlicensed’ does not mean ‘untested’: this temporary authorisation process exists to address the possibility that, in certain situations of public health need, the licensing authority may consider that the balance of risk and benefit to patients justifies the temporary supply of the relevant vaccine pending the issue of a product licence. Regulation 345 of the Human Medicine Regulations transposes into UK law a requirement of EU law that key actors in the medicines supply chain cannot generally be sued in the civil courts for the consequences resulting from the use of an unlicensed product, or a new use of a licensed product, that a national licensing authority is recommending in order to deal with certain specific health threats. Read the above,its basically saying it's a chance they'll take. This is actually on the gov.uk website,so that's from the top. (this temporary authorisation process exists to address the possibility that, in certain situations of public health need, the licensing authority may consider that the balance of risk and benefit to patients justifies the temporary supply of the relevant vaccine pending the issue of a product licence) I see this. " A COVID-19 vaccine would only be authorised in this way if the UK’s licensing authority was satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate the safety, quality and efficacy of the vaccine." What's the problem, then? No problem,but if theres a window,I bet the safety,quality and efficancy was within the minimum requirements for release,because it takes years to test vaccines thoroughly before release,they couldn't wait years. You bet? Ok. It's obviously a terrible idea then. Of course it's not a bad idea, if theres a chance it's going to save more lives than lives covid is going to take,then it's a great idea,but it's a risk people have to take,and it's a risk I dont want to take,as I'm healthy,I've a strong immune system,no underlying health issues etc...so I'm happy with the tools I have." I would argue you may feel happy about the 'tools you have'.. It doesn't protect anyone else though from being infected by you ? My point being this is not actually about your health its about everyone else's. The old, weak etc are who we are trying to protect . And this is now slowly becoming quite a concern a cross the world .. Even within the government the mood is changing ..a quote I have heard recently is ' we can not allow this very small tail to wag the very big dog'.. So matter how healthy people are or think they are things will be changing .. That situation about freedom of choice may soon begin to change unless people start changing their minds .. I would imagine restrictions on non vaccinated people will slowly become harsher and more punitive once we all get out of this lockdown and everyone who agrees to it gets vaccinated etc.. My feeling is that if it becomes necessary we will see lots of rules about how we live, work and play being brought in which will eventually strong arm people into getting vaccinated at some point whether they agree or not .. It's clear as a society we can't have some who will and some who won't .. Only a matter of time I think and that's bound to bring its own problems unfortunately .. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just a suggestion - research Ivermectin and long covid, I have heard favorable reports, though not looked into it yet. " Perhaps if you “haven’t looked into it” stop copy and pasting the same line over and over again in this forum... it’s very dull and actually quite misleading for some readers. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's evident that vaccines are helping present deaths or serious illness so I'm happy to be getting my second dose on monday" Wednesday fortnight for me | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think people are missing the point about the messages I've personally put in this thread. I'm not against it,its worked for a lot of people,especially with underlying health issues,that's great,they can have freedom again. My reasoning for putting the above information in the thread is to show it has been rushed due to the nature of what's been happening the last 18 months,and that's why I wont be having it yet,and the above information on the government website shows they've had to release it faster than usual,which is understandable due to the death toll,its a chance they had to take. I'm not taking it for my own reasons, because I dont know what could be further down the line with side effects etc... if i do take it,maybe they'll be no side effects at all,I'm no scientist, I'm simply reading factual information and making my own mind up. I'm certainly not against people taking vaccines or not taking them,I'm just sick of the guilt shaming. " If you're sick of guilt shaming, you could start by stopping repeating incorrect anti-vax talking points. You can literally put 'was the covid 19 vaccine rushed' into Google and read various articles about how the vaccines were produced in a quicker time than normal, and how safety was not compromised. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
Probably one of the best arguements against the vaccine. However, if to go abroad on holiday you are required to show Vaccine Certificate would this change your mind.. Might not be the UK, but for example if Spain, American, Dubai all asked for proof of vaccination otherwise its a no go what would you do?
Interested to hear reply."It already impacts me as on returning from abroad i'll have to isolate a mandatory 14 days for being unvaccinated. It's a hassle but i'll put up with it at least until clinical trials are done. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think people are missing the point about the messages I've personally put in this thread. I'm not against it,its worked for a lot of people,especially with underlying health issues,that's great,they can have freedom again. My reasoning for putting the above information in the thread is to show it has been rushed due to the nature of what's been happening the last 18 months,and that's why I wont be having it yet,and the above information on the government website shows they've had to release it faster than usual,which is understandable due to the death toll,its a chance they had to take. I'm not taking it for my own reasons, because I dont know what could be further down the line with side effects etc... if i do take it,maybe they'll be no side effects at all,I'm no scientist, I'm simply reading factual information and making my own mind up. I'm certainly not against people taking vaccines or not taking them,I'm just sick of the guilt shaming. If you're sick of guilt shaming, you could start by stopping repeating incorrect anti-vax talking points. You can literally put 'was the covid 19 vaccine rushed' into Google and read various articles about how the vaccines were produced in a quicker time than normal, and how safety was not compromised. " The LSHTM Viral podcast have been killing it answering these sorts of questions, for those who are interested | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A temporary authorisation of the supply of an unlicensed vaccine could be given by the UK’s licensing authority under regulation 174 of the Human Medicines Regulations (see below). A COVID-19 vaccine would only be authorised in this way if the UK’s licensing authority was satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate the safety, quality and efficacy of the vaccine. ‘Unlicensed’ does not mean ‘untested’: this temporary authorisation process exists to address the possibility that, in certain situations of public health need, the licensing authority may consider that the balance of risk and benefit to patients justifies the temporary supply of the relevant vaccine pending the issue of a product licence. Regulation 345 of the Human Medicine Regulations transposes into UK law a requirement of EU law that key actors in the medicines supply chain cannot generally be sued in the civil courts for the consequences resulting from the use of an unlicensed product, or a new use of a licensed product, that a national licensing authority is recommending in order to deal with certain specific health threats. Read the above,its basically saying it's a chance they'll take. This is actually on the gov.uk website,so that's from the top. (this temporary authorisation process exists to address the possibility that, in certain situations of public health need, the licensing authority may consider that the balance of risk and benefit to patients justifies the temporary supply of the relevant vaccine pending the issue of a product licence) I see this. " A COVID-19 vaccine would only be authorised in this way if the UK’s licensing authority was satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate the safety, quality and efficacy of the vaccine." What's the problem, then? No problem,but if theres a window,I bet the safety,quality and efficancy was within the minimum requirements for release,because it takes years to test vaccines thoroughly before release,they couldn't wait years. You bet? Ok. It's obviously a terrible idea then. Of course it's not a bad idea, if theres a chance it's going to save more lives than lives covid is going to take,then it's a great idea,but it's a risk people have to take,and it's a risk I dont want to take,as I'm healthy,I've a strong immune system,no underlying health issues etc...so I'm happy with the tools I have. I would argue you may feel happy about the 'tools you have'.. It doesn't protect anyone else though from being infected by you ? My point being this is not actually about your health its about everyone else's. The old, weak etc are who we are trying to protect . And this is now slowly becoming quite a concern a cross the world .. Even within the government the mood is changing ..a quote I have heard recently is ' we can not allow this very small tail to wag the very big dog'.. So matter how healthy people are or think they are things will be changing .. That situation about freedom of choice may soon begin to change unless people start changing their minds .. I would imagine restrictions on non vaccinated people will slowly become harsher and more punitive once we all get out of this lockdown and everyone who agrees to it gets vaccinated etc.. My feeling is that if it becomes necessary we will see lots of rules about how we live, work and play being brought in which will eventually strong arm people into getting vaccinated at some point whether they agree or not .. It's clear as a society we can't have some who will and some who won't .. Only a matter of time I think and that's bound to bring its own problems unfortunately .. " People who refuse the vaccine should be made to pay for eny treatment they may need in the future, as a result of there choices. Let's see how confident they are in being safe when facing a big bill | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A temporary authorisation of the supply of an unlicensed vaccine could be given by the UK’s licensing authority under regulation 174 of the Human Medicines Regulations (see below). A COVID-19 vaccine would only be authorised in this way if the UK’s licensing authority was satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate the safety, quality and efficacy of the vaccine. ‘Unlicensed’ does not mean ‘untested’: this temporary authorisation process exists to address the possibility that, in certain situations of public health need, the licensing authority may consider that the balance of risk and benefit to patients justifies the temporary supply of the relevant vaccine pending the issue of a product licence. Regulation 345 of the Human Medicine Regulations transposes into UK law a requirement of EU law that key actors in the medicines supply chain cannot generally be sued in the civil courts for the consequences resulting from the use of an unlicensed product, or a new use of a licensed product, that a national licensing authority is recommending in order to deal with certain specific health threats. Read the above,its basically saying it's a chance they'll take. This is actually on the gov.uk website,so that's from the top. (this temporary authorisation process exists to address the possibility that, in certain situations of public health need, the licensing authority may consider that the balance of risk and benefit to patients justifies the temporary supply of the relevant vaccine pending the issue of a product licence) I see this. " A COVID-19 vaccine would only be authorised in this way if the UK’s licensing authority was satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate the safety, quality and efficacy of the vaccine." What's the problem, then? No problem,but if theres a window,I bet the safety,quality and efficancy was within the minimum requirements for release,because it takes years to test vaccines thoroughly before release,they couldn't wait years. You bet? Ok. It's obviously a terrible idea then. Of course it's not a bad idea, if theres a chance it's going to save more lives than lives covid is going to take,then it's a great idea,but it's a risk people have to take,and it's a risk I dont want to take,as I'm healthy,I've a strong immune system,no underlying health issues etc...so I'm happy with the tools I have. We're speaking from very different perspectives. My personal risk is also very low. I have no relevant comorbidities, I'm pretty young, I have a high level of fitness, I work from home. I'm not doing this for me. I'm doing it for those who aren't as lucky. And the more who do, the safer we'll all be, because of herd immunity." I know where you're coming from,but the unlucky ones will have had over 2 jabs now,so they should be fine. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A temporary authorisation of the supply of an unlicensed vaccine could be given by the UK’s licensing authority under regulation 174 of the Human Medicines Regulations (see below). A COVID-19 vaccine would only be authorised in this way if the UK’s licensing authority was satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate the safety, quality and efficacy of the vaccine. ‘Unlicensed’ does not mean ‘untested’: this temporary authorisation process exists to address the possibility that, in certain situations of public health need, the licensing authority may consider that the balance of risk and benefit to patients justifies the temporary supply of the relevant vaccine pending the issue of a product licence. Regulation 345 of the Human Medicine Regulations transposes into UK law a requirement of EU law that key actors in the medicines supply chain cannot generally be sued in the civil courts for the consequences resulting from the use of an unlicensed product, or a new use of a licensed product, that a national licensing authority is recommending in order to deal with certain specific health threats. Read the above,its basically saying it's a chance they'll take. This is actually on the gov.uk website,so that's from the top. (this temporary authorisation process exists to address the possibility that, in certain situations of public health need, the licensing authority may consider that the balance of risk and benefit to patients justifies the temporary supply of the relevant vaccine pending the issue of a product licence) I see this. " A COVID-19 vaccine would only be authorised in this way if the UK’s licensing authority was satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate the safety, quality and efficacy of the vaccine." What's the problem, then? No problem,but if theres a window,I bet the safety,quality and efficancy was within the minimum requirements for release,because it takes years to test vaccines thoroughly before release,they couldn't wait years. You bet? Ok. It's obviously a terrible idea then. Of course it's not a bad idea, if theres a chance it's going to save more lives than lives covid is going to take,then it's a great idea,but it's a risk people have to take,and it's a risk I dont want to take,as I'm healthy,I've a strong immune system,no underlying health issues etc...so I'm happy with the tools I have. We're speaking from very different perspectives. My personal risk is also very low. I have no relevant comorbidities, I'm pretty young, I have a high level of fitness, I work from home. I'm not doing this for me. I'm doing it for those who aren't as lucky. And the more who do, the safer we'll all be, because of herd immunity. I know where you're coming from,but the unlucky ones will have had over 2 jabs now,so they should be fine. " They're only up to first jabs in late 30s in my area. Globally, deaths have been reported in as old and ancient as babies. Is it rare? Yes. Do I want to contribute to that? No. And there's concern that immunity in the elderly wanes. As someone allied with health and social care in my voluntary work, that matters very much to me. The vaccine is not a silver bullet, but the more of us get vaccinated, the better off we'll be. And that's why I'm getting vaccinated. Tbh my personal risk from vaccination might even be higher - a close family member suffered life altering consequences from a vaccine a long time ago. And I'm on a trial, so I don't know what vaccine I got. They considered kicking me off the trial when I told them what happened to my relative. This is my position, it's been my position from the start, and it's unwavering. I'm standing up for the vulnerable. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Thanks for the reies so far. No arguing please ~ its only Monday
Shame only one of the replies was a yes/no.
Amusing how people cant just answer yes/no without forcing their opinion on others."I know, I should of known better. What really annoys me is when people get aggressive and start name calling just because people have differing opinions!  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Why would anyone with a half a brain cell take an experimental vaccine for a virus with a 99.74% recovery rate? You don't have to be an 'anti vaxxer' to decline this. It's in my opinion that people are totally brainwashed and under fear based mind control to even consider it. Use the eyes and brain god gave you. It's not the plague that the MSM have portrayed it to be. " Because if we didn’t we’d see deaths in their 100,000’s directly from the virus, we’d also see massive delays in surgery, screening, cancer treatments etc. We’d also experience sporadic lockdowns throughout the year which in turn would have severe consequences economically and to numerous people mental health or life happiness. Which rock have you been under for the past 16 months? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Why would anyone with a half a brain cell take an experimental vaccine for a virus with a 99.74% recovery rate? You don't have to be an 'anti vaxxer' to decline this. It's in my opinion that people are totally brainwashed and under fear based mind control to even consider it. Use the eyes and brain god gave you. It's not the plague that the MSM have portrayed it to be. " Because I believe in duty. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
You say you “researched it”.
I'm not sure you did.
Did you complete a literature review and write abstracts on each article? Or better yet, did you collect a random sample of sources and perform independent probability statistics on the reported results? No, no you didn’t.
Did you at least take each article, one by one and look into the source, (that’s would be the author, publisher and funder) then critique the writing for logical fallacies, cognitive distortions and plain inaccuracies? No, no you didn’t.
Did you ask yourself why this source might publish these particular results? Did you follow the trail of refences and apply the same source of scrutiny to them? No, no you didn’t.
No to all? Then you didn’t research anything.
You read or watched a video, most likely with little or no objectivity.
You came across something in your algorithm manipulated feed, something that aligned with your implicit biases and served your confirmation bias, and subsequently applied your emotional filters and called it proof.
E
Have you?
When there are internationally recognised experts and scientists in the fields re this issue as well as doctors expressing serious concerns would you dismiss them? I didn't, they made a more compelling arguement based on facts and rationale."I'm reading "they made a more compelling arguement based on my confirmation bias" You said you work in healthcare? It really can't be anything to do with virology or vaccination. E | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"All of which have been caused by your government, not the virus. 100,000's haha you using the same computer models as Neil Ferguson there Charlie?? I've been keeping a close eye on it for a solid 16mths and not from beneath a rock either " No, I’ve just been working in an ICU and then going home to my lockdown life during that time.... As for Government (and I’m no Tory), it’s the same issue virtually every government worldwide has had. It’s a great shame you weren't elected as some form of world leader, you could have shown us all how to kick this virus into touch and magicked away all those deaths making my workplace an absolute breeze x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Duty of what exactly? " To protect my community as best I can. They won't have me on the proverbial front line, so I can take a miniscule risk with my body to protect those around me. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
You say you “researched it”.
I'm not sure you did.
Did you complete a literature review and write abstracts on each article? Or better yet, did you collect a random sample of sources and perform independent probability statistics on the reported results? No, no you didn’t.
Did you at least take each article, one by one and look into the source, (that’s would be the author, publisher and funder) then critique the writing for logical fallacies, cognitive distortions and plain inaccuracies? No, no you didn’t.
Did you ask yourself why this source might publish these particular results? Did you follow the trail of refences and apply the same source of scrutiny to them? No, no you didn’t.
No to all? Then you didn’t research anything.
You read or watched a video, most likely with little or no objectivity.
You came across something in your algorithm manipulated feed, something that aligned with your implicit biases and served your confirmation bias, and subsequently applied your emotional filters and called it proof.
E
Have you?
When there are internationally recognised experts and scientists in the fields re this issue as well as doctors expressing serious concerns would you dismiss them? I didn't, they made a more compelling arguement based on facts and rationale.
I'm reading "they made a more compelling arguement based on my confirmation bias"
You said you work in healthcare? It really can't be anything to do with virology or vaccination.
E"So anyone who isn't an expert in this field doesn't have a right to an informed opinion? Ok | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Duty of what exactly? " Public duty. Civic duty. Moral duty. I suspect there's more.
E | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Why would anyone with a half a brain cell take an experimental vaccine for a virus with a 99.74% recovery rate? You don't have to be an 'anti vaxxer' to decline this. It's in my opinion that people are totally brainwashed and under fear based mind control to even consider it. Use the eyes and brain god gave you. It's not the plague that the MSM have portrayed it to be. " Try telling that to the families of the 128,000 people who have already died of it, to use your worlds, why would someone with half a brain cell not take a vaccination that not only helps them but there frinds and family, sticking your head in the sand and protending its not happening is just dam stupid | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think people are missing the point about the messages I've personally put in this thread. I'm not against it,its worked for a lot of people,especially with underlying health issues,that's great,they can have freedom again. My reasoning for putting the above information in the thread is to show it has been rushed due to the nature of what's been happening the last 18 months,and that's why I wont be having it yet,and the above information on the government website shows they've had to release it faster than usual,which is understandable due to the death toll,its a chance they had to take. I'm not taking it for my own reasons, because I dont know what could be further down the line with side effects etc... if i do take it,maybe they'll be no side effects at all,I'm no scientist, I'm simply reading factual information and making my own mind up. I'm certainly not against people taking vaccines or not taking them,I'm just sick of the guilt shaming. If you're sick of guilt shaming, you could start by stopping repeating incorrect anti-vax talking points. You can literally put 'was the covid 19 vaccine rushed' into Google and read various articles about how the vaccines were produced in a quicker time than normal, and how safety was not compromised. Incorrect??...how?,you've just answered your own question. "You stated incorrect talk",yet you've just repeated what I've said earlier....I know it was rushed,then you said you can google it and find out it was rushed,I didn't say it hadn't been rushed. And I'm certainly no anti-vax,I've got no problem with people getting it,I simply wont "yet" because it has been rushed. " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm not interested in what your affiliation is to whatever political party is. At no point have I said I could kick this virus into touch but I tell you what Charlie, if I was a world leader I'd of put more of an emphasis on health and well being throughout this 'pandemic' than what these clowns have done. Maccies and pubs open, gyms shut during a world wide health crisis. It's laughable. Obesity is putting people most at risk to this virus than the general population, but hey ho, get ya free Krispy Kreme donut with ya jab haaaaaa it's an absolute shit show. The icu is chocker every Yr FACT, what's been different? A virus so deadly a high percent of ppl don't even know they've got it hahaha. Keep virtue signalling Charlie, hopefully a few other brain dead clowns will bang there pots and pans at 8pm when the Indian variant kicks in... Sorry I mean adverse Vaccine reactions!!!! The actual PCR test is being less amplified now making it look like the vaccine is working too xxx" I thought it was personal responsibility? Resistance bands and yoga mats are cheap, McDonald's isn't compulsory. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Duty of what exactly? Public duty. Civic duty. Moral duty. I would say ' I suspect there's more.
E"Duty of care' its the one thing we have got towards each other.. Or supposed to have.. I suspect it comes into this situation quite a lot on both sides of the argument.. We have a duty of care to protect each other from harm.. I also would like to add there will be some elements of safe guarding involved too.. Maybe even on a legal basis in the near future? .. Particularly where the old and vulnerable are concerned.. Duty of care applies to us all. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Duty of what exactly? Public duty. Civic duty. Moral duty. I would say ' I suspect there's more.
E
Duty of care' its the one thing we have got towards each other.. Or supposed to have.. I suspect it comes into this situation quite a lot on both sides of the argument.. We have a duty of care to protect each other from harm.. I also would like to add there will be some elements of safe guarding involved too.. Maybe even on a legal basis in the near future? .. Particularly where the old and vulnerable are concerned.. Duty of care applies to us all. "While my voluntary work hasn't extended duty of care to vaccination, I consider it an integral part of it. I live by my own standards. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Accountability for your own health is top of the list. Got big fat bastards who drink, eat shite and don't excersise guilt tripping me for there own demise in health. Never give a fuck about there own health or the health of others but go and get jabbed to pretend there doing something righteous. Fuck off. Half the selfish cunts just wanba go on holiday. If burpees or sit ups were made mandatory there'd be riots on the streets " Lovely. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm not interested in what your affiliation is to whatever political party is. At no point have I said I could kick this virus into touch but I tell you what Charlie, if I was a world leader I'd of put more of an emphasis on health and well being throughout this 'pandemic' than what these clowns have done. Maccies and pubs open, gyms shut during a world wide health crisis. It's laughable. Obesity is putting people most at risk to this virus than the general population, but hey ho, get ya free Krispy Kreme donut with ya jab haaaaaa it's an absolute shit show. The icu is chocker every Yr FACT, what's been different? A virus so deadly a high percent of ppl don't even know they've got it hahaha. Keep virtue signalling Charlie, hopefully a few other brain dead clowns will bang there pots and pans at 8pm when the Indian variant kicks in... Sorry I mean adverse Vaccine reactions!!!! The actual PCR test is being less amplified now making it look like the vaccine is working too xxx" Ah You are forgetting your responsibility towards all the donut eaters and maccy D eaters.. Whether you like it or not you are liable to be able to not knowingly harm, hurt or infect someone else by your actions.. I believe there may even be a few prosecutions over it in the last few years So frankly it doesn't matter how fit or what you eat.. The sensible thing to do is join in and that way perhaps someday you won't be held accountable for passing on a virus that killed someone Just something for you to take time and think about maybe? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Seeing a lot of “moral duty” comments, in my opinion there is a lot going in the world and that would benefit off your moral duty outside the vaccine, or is this JUST regarding the UK? Everyone is dutyfull when they don’t have to do much "The question is about the vaccine. The clinical trial I'm on will likely benefit Australia, who are up shit creek on the vaccine front, and potentially others too. And my vaccination is not the only thing I'm doing. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
You say you “researched it”.
I'm not sure you did.
Did you complete a literature review and write abstracts on each article? Or better yet, did you collect a random sample of sources and perform independent probability statistics on the reported results? No, no you didn’t.
Did you at least take each article, one by one and look into the source, (that’s would be the author, publisher and funder) then critique the writing for logical fallacies, cognitive distortions and plain inaccuracies? No, no you didn’t.
Did you ask yourself why this source might publish these particular results? Did you follow the trail of refences and apply the same source of scrutiny to them? No, no you didn’t.
No to all? Then you didn’t research anything.
You read or watched a video, most likely with little or no objectivity.
You came across something in your algorithm manipulated feed, something that aligned with your implicit biases and served your confirmation bias, and subsequently applied your emotional filters and called it proof.
E
Have you?
When there are internationally recognised experts and scientists in the fields re this issue as well as doctors expressing serious concerns would you dismiss them? I didn't, they made a more compelling arguement based on facts and rationale.
I'm reading "they made a more compelling arguement based on my confirmation bias"
You said you work in healthcare? It really can't be anything to do with virology or vaccination.
E
So anyone who isn't an expert in this field doesn't have a right to an informed opinion? Ok "Correct. Absolutely correct. If you're not an expert in the topic field how can you have an informed opinion? You're not an expert, you have no knowledge or experience to make a valid, balanced and informed opinion. You're doing nothing more than parroting someone else's hypothesis (nonsense) that confirms your bias and ignoring anything that refutes your misplaced beliefs. One of the most dangerous ideas that has come about in the last few years is that all points of view are equally valid and the average citizen is just as equipped to judge which have merit as well as anyone else. “Hear all sides and judge for yourself!!!!” No. I do not condone the death of expertise and neither should you. I am an expert in very few things. But in those areas my expertise is hard earned through study, work, experience, research and aptitude. None of it comes from attending Google University or Facebook College. But unless you are an expert in exactly the same areas your opinion is simply not just as valid as mine. It’s just not. And my opinion is not as valid as experts in other fields. That is why “they” and not “I” are the experts. If our leading experts agree that A is correct and a couple of discredited Doctors, or a self-appointed YouTube/Facebook expert makes a video that says B is correct, our response shouldn’t be “I’ll listen to both sides and decide what makes sense to me”. 1) If you yourself aren’t an expert, what qualifies you to determine which is correct? 2)Confirmation bias exists. (And only fools think they are free of it) To paraphrase Asimov, “your ignorance is not the same as their experience”. Genuinely smart people look for answers from people smarter than themselves. And those smart people aren’t to be found posting YouTube videos from a room above their parents garage, while wearing only their pants. My question to you is simple. What makes you qualified to determine which information is valid and which is not? E | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"It's not the same, but given the variant situation, I am being more cautious than I would have been post one jab. It might not hurt me if I catch it and spread it, but it might hurt others. I couldn't live with myself." Me either, I received my first vaccine yesterday and I am relieved that I've done my best to protect others and myself | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A temporary authorisation of the supply of an unlicensed vaccine could be given by the UK’s licensing authority under regulation 174 of the Human Medicines Regulations (see below). A COVID-19 vaccine would only be authorised in this way if the UK’s licensing authority was satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate the safety, quality and efficacy of the vaccine. ‘Unlicensed’ does not mean ‘untested’: this temporary authorisation process exists to address the possibility that, in certain situations of public health need, the licensing authority may consider that the balance of risk and benefit to patients justifies the temporary supply of the relevant vaccine pending the issue of a product licence. Regulation 345 of the Human Medicine Regulations transposes into UK law a requirement of EU law that key actors in the medicines supply chain cannot generally be sued in the civil courts for the consequences resulting from the use of an unlicensed product, or a new use of a licensed product, that a national licensing authority is recommending in order to deal with certain specific health threats. Read the above,its basically saying it's a chance they'll take. This is actually on the gov.uk website,so that's from the top. (this temporary authorisation process exists to address the possibility that, in certain situations of public health need, the licensing authority may consider that the balance of risk and benefit to patients justifies the temporary supply of the relevant vaccine pending the issue of a product licence) I see this. " A COVID-19 vaccine would only be authorised in this way if the UK’s licensing authority was satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate the safety, quality and efficacy of the vaccine." What's the problem, then? No problem,but if theres a window,I bet the safety,quality and efficancy was within the minimum requirements for release,because it takes years to test vaccines thoroughly before release,they couldn't wait years. You bet? Ok. It's obviously a terrible idea then. Of course it's not a bad idea, if theres a chance it's going to save more lives than lives covid is going to take,then it's a great idea,but it's a risk people have to take,and it's a risk I dont want to take,as I'm healthy,I've a strong immune system,no underlying health issues etc...so I'm happy with the tools I have. I would argue you may feel happy about the 'tools you have'.. It doesn't protect anyone else though from being infected by you ? My point being this is not actually about your health its about everyone else's. The old, weak etc are who we are trying to protect . And this is now slowly becoming quite a concern a cross the world .. Even within the government the mood is changing ..a quote I have heard recently is ' we can not allow this very small tail to wag the very big dog'.. So matter how healthy people are or think they are things will be changing .. That situation about freedom of choice may soon begin to change unless people start changing their minds .. I would imagine restrictions on non vaccinated people will slowly become harsher and more punitive once we all get out of this lockdown and everyone who agrees to it gets vaccinated etc.. My feeling is that if it becomes necessary we will see lots of rules about how we live, work and play being brought in which will eventually strong arm people into getting vaccinated at some point whether they agree or not .. It's clear as a society we can't have some who will and some who won't .. Only a matter of time I think and that's bound to bring its own problems unfortunately .. People who refuse the vaccine should be made to pay for eny treatment they may need in the future, as a result of there choices. Let's see how confident they are in being safe when facing a big bill "Don’t worry when this Govt manages to fully privatise the NHS we will all be paying for all our medical treatment. If you are a smoker, drinker, obese, have underlying health conditions or family history then good luck getting affordable health insurance! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hahaha my vaccine is my fridge. I'm fit and healthy thanks. If I wasn't I'd stay indoors like we used too. When common sense was around seen as tho 2020 knocked it out of most ppl " Good for you. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence "This and I have also done my research on it | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm not interested in what your affiliation is to whatever political party is. At no point have I said I could kick this virus into touch but I tell you what Charlie, if I was a world leader I'd of put more of an emphasis on health and well being throughout this 'pandemic' than what these clowns have done. Maccies and pubs open, gyms shut during a world wide health crisis. It's laughable. Obesity is putting people most at risk to this virus than the general population, but hey ho, get ya free Krispy Kreme donut with ya jab haaaaaa it's an absolute shit show. The icu is chocker every Yr FACT, what's been different? A virus so deadly a high percent of ppl don't even know they've got it hahaha. Keep virtue signalling Charlie, hopefully a few other brain dead clowns will bang there pots and pans at 8pm when the Indian variant kicks in... Sorry I mean adverse Vaccine reactions!!!! The actual PCR test is being less amplified now making it look like the vaccine is working too xxx" If my aim was to make you appear to be an unbalanced, deluded and selfish dick aid be celebrating about now. There are so many flaws in what you’ve just posted I don’t know where to start really. I’ll just stick to the simple stuff I know... you’re right every year my 24 bed ICU is chocker, it’s a hard place to work and flu season is an incredible challenge, with that in mind perhaps you can understand that during the past year when at our peak we where expanded to cater for 214 patients and got to the stage where we where transferring patients to create some capacity it perhaps underlines how dire this situation has been. As for pan banging as with pretty much all my colleagues I had and have zero interest in it. It was a social media post for bored people at best. The only concern I ever had was for the people within our care and their quite horrific stories and sadness. As for your obesity crap, your vaccine reactions being the true India variant (strange, India is massively under vaccinated) sorry, it’s just delusional. Well done on using FACT though... that was really convincing. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I think people are missing the point about the messages I've personally put in this thread. I'm not against it,its worked for a lot of people,especially with underlying health issues,that's great,they can have freedom again. My reasoning for putting the above information in the thread is to show it has been rushed due to the nature of what's been happening the last 18 months,and that's why I wont be having it yet,and the above information on the government website shows they've had to release it faster than usual,which is understandable due to the death toll,its a chance they had to take. I'm not taking it for my own reasons, because I dont know what could be further down the line with side effects etc... if i do take it,maybe they'll be no side effects at all,I'm no scientist, I'm simply reading factual information and making my own mind up. I'm certainly not against people taking vaccines or not taking them,I'm just sick of the guilt shaming. If you're sick of guilt shaming, you could start by stopping repeating incorrect anti-vax talking points. You can literally put 'was the covid 19 vaccine rushed' into Google and read various articles about how the vaccines were produced in a quicker time than normal, and how safety was not compromised. The LSHTM Viral podcast have been killing it answering these sorts of questions, for those who are interested" An echo chamber that was funded by a bloke that hangs out with a tried, convicted and imprisoned paedophile sex trafficker to the tune of tens of millions of pounds. I don't think so  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Seeing a lot of “moral duty” comments, in my opinion there is a lot going in the world and that would benefit off your moral duty outside the vaccine, or is this JUST regarding the UK? Everyone is dutyfull when they don’t have to do much
The question is about the vaccine.
The clinical trial I'm on will likely benefit Australia, who are up shit creek on the vaccine front, and potentially others too.
And my vaccination is not the only thing I'm doing."Although the original question is regarding vaxx I was responding to moral duty comments. I was just specifying there’s more going in the world other than vaccines that requires your moral compass, not specifically you but humans in general Great your doing your bit for Australia though I’m sure they appreciate it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
You say you “researched it”.
I'm not sure you did.
Did you complete a literature review and write abstracts on each article? Or better yet, did you collect a random sample of sources and perform independent probability statistics on the reported results? No, no you didn’t.
Did you at least take each article, one by one and look into the source, (that’s would be the author, publisher and funder) then critique the writing for logical fallacies, cognitive distortions and plain inaccuracies? No, no you didn’t.
Did you ask yourself why this source might publish these particular results? Did you follow the trail of refences and apply the same source of scrutiny to them? No, no you didn’t.
No to all? Then you didn’t research anything.
You read or watched a video, most likely with little or no objectivity.
You came across something in your algorithm manipulated feed, something that aligned with your implicit biases and served your confirmation bias, and subsequently applied your emotional filters and called it proof.
E
Have you?
When there are internationally recognised experts and scientists in the fields re this issue as well as doctors expressing serious concerns would you dismiss them? I didn't, they made a more compelling arguement based on facts and rationale.
I'm reading "they made a more compelling arguement based on my confirmation bias"
You said you work in healthcare? It really can't be anything to do with virology or vaccination.
E
So anyone who isn't an expert in this field doesn't have a right to an informed opinion? Ok
Correct. Absolutely correct. If you're not an expert in the topic field how can you have an informed opinion?
You're not an expert, you have no knowledge or experience to make a valid, balanced and informed opinion.
You're doing nothing more than parroting someone else's hypothesis (nonsense) that confirms your bias and ignoring anything that refutes your misplaced beliefs.
One of the most dangerous ideas that has come about in the last few years is that all points of view are equally valid and the average citizen is just as equipped to judge which have merit as well as anyone else.
“Hear all sides and judge for yourself!!!!”
No. I do not condone the death of expertise and neither should you.
I am an expert in very few things. But in those areas my expertise is hard earned through study, work, experience, research and aptitude.
None of it comes from attending Google University or Facebook College.
But unless you are an expert in exactly the same areas your opinion is simply not just as valid as mine. It’s just not.
And my opinion is not as valid as experts in other fields. That is why “they” and not “I” are the experts.
If our leading experts agree that A is correct and a couple of discredited Doctors, or a self-appointed YouTube/Facebook expert makes a video that says B is correct, our response shouldn’t be “I’ll listen to both sides and decide what makes sense to me”.
1) If you yourself aren’t an expert, what qualifies you to determine which is correct?
2)Confirmation bias exists. (And only fools think they are free of it)
To paraphrase Asimov, “your ignorance is not the same as their experience”.
Genuinely smart people look for answers from people smarter than themselves.
And those smart people aren’t to be found posting YouTube videos from a room above their parents garage, while wearing only their pants.
My question to you is simple. What makes you qualified to determine which information is valid and which is not?
E"This is a pointless arguement. I'm quite happy to send links by pm re the papers and questions submitted by experts to the regulatory agencies. Make your own mind up then. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Ok, so you're unvaccinated for whatever reason ~ you're anti, you've not been called, you're cautious. For the cautious amongst us, and I know there's a few. With the Indian variant here are you more likely to have it now? Simple question. No going off on a tangent now! " No | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No thank you for the jab. My body my choice. " Hypothetical question. You have Covid, but no symptoms, so you don't know you have it. You pass Covid to your mum/dad/brother/sister/granny. They get it. And die. A slow, lingering, painful, horrible death. Alone. Still your body, your choice?
E | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No thank you for the jab. My body my choice. Hypothetical question. You have Covid, but no symptoms, so you don't know you have it. You pass Covid to your mum/dad/brother/sister/granny. They get it. And die. A slow, lingering, painful, horrible death. Alone. Still your body, your choice?
E"What if they get it and there Asymptomatic | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No thank you for the jab. My body my choice. " I would add to that.. Your responsibility? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"How many of the 128,000 actually died of covid tho??? A virus so deadly you can get hit by a bus after 28 days of testing positive for it with a PCR test that's 7% accurate at which cycle it had been amplified too and go down as a covid death. 60 days it then went too. So you fall off a roof working put test positive your a covid death. Come back to me with real figures pls, not fake numbers " 1) man fails to google numbers of “hit by a bus” deaths per year 2) man fails to identify the correct type of covid test used within a clinical setting to confirm the virus 3) man fails to understand the nature of a virus that will often see those infected who sadly don’t make it placed in a medical coma for a period that could last months Perhaps come back to us with some common sense? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Seeing a lot of “moral duty” comments, in my opinion there is a lot going in the world and that would benefit off your moral duty outside the vaccine, or is this JUST regarding the UK? Everyone is dutyfull when they don’t have to do much
The question is about the vaccine.
The clinical trial I'm on will likely benefit Australia, who are up shit creek on the vaccine front, and potentially others too.
And my vaccination is not the only thing I'm doing.
Although the original question is regarding vaxx I was responding to moral duty comments. I was just specifying there’s more going in the world other than vaccines that requires your moral compass, not specifically you but humans in general
Great your doing your bit for Australia though I’m sure they appreciate it."Knock on, Australia are hoping to donate to PNG, who are in dire straits. New Zealand to Fiji. It's not the only thing I'm doing by a long shot. The most direct thing I can do to help here is get my jabs and stay away from people. And so I am. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
You say you “researched it”.
I'm not sure you did.
Did you complete a literature review and write abstracts on each article? Or better yet, did you collect a random sample of sources and perform independent probability statistics on the reported results? No, no you didn’t.
Did you at least take each article, one by one and look into the source, (that’s would be the author, publisher and funder) then critique the writing for logical fallacies, cognitive distortions and plain inaccuracies? No, no you didn’t.
Did you ask yourself why this source might publish these particular results? Did you follow the trail of refences and apply the same source of scrutiny to them? No, no you didn’t.
No to all? Then you didn’t research anything.
You read or watched a video, most likely with little or no objectivity.
You came across something in your algorithm manipulated feed, something that aligned with your implicit biases and served your confirmation bias, and subsequently applied your emotional filters and called it proof.
E
"This is it right here. No comebacks required, end of discussion. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"That was a lame response that. Obesity crap??? Heart disease is the number 1 killer worldwide, is it not? Was gyms closed and McDonald's, off licences and pubs open??? There is more deaths linked to obesity from this virus than not. Debunk all of this, I'll wait " I thought we believed in personal responsibility. Don't go to McDonald's. Exercise. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"That was a lame response that. Obesity crap??? Heart disease is the number 1 killer worldwide, is it not? Was gyms closed and McDonald's, off licences and pubs open??? There is more deaths linked to obesity from this virus than not. Debunk all of this, I'll wait " The figures show obesity rates and covid deaths where the obesity is diagnosed in the patient are proportional. In other words it seems to not make a difference to patients outcome. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Seeing a lot of “moral duty” comments, in my opinion there is a lot going in the world and that would benefit off your moral duty outside the vaccine, or is this JUST regarding the UK? Everyone is dutyfull when they don’t have to do much
The question is about the vaccine.
The clinical trial I'm on will likely benefit Australia, who are up shit creek on the vaccine front, and potentially others too.
And my vaccination is not the only thing I'm doing.
Although the original question is regarding vaxx I was responding to moral duty comments. I was just specifying there’s more going in the world other than vaccines that requires your moral compass, not specifically you but humans in general
Great your doing your bit for Australia though I’m sure they appreciate it.
Knock on, Australia are hoping to donate to PNG, who are in dire straits. New Zealand to Fiji.
It's not the only thing I'm doing by a long shot.
The most direct thing I can do to help here is get my jabs and stay away from people. And so I am."I’m happy for you | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No thank you for the jab. My body my choice. Hypothetical question. You have Covid, but no symptoms, so you don't know you have it. You pass Covid to your mum/dad/brother/sister/granny. They get it. And die. A slow, lingering, painful, horrible death. Alone. Still your body, your choice?
E
What if they get it and there Asymptomatic"More chance of getting killed on the way to the vaccine centre...by elvis | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No thank you for the jab. My body my choice. Hypothetical question. You have Covid, but no symptoms, so you don't know you have it. You pass Covid to your mum/dad/brother/sister/granny. They get it. And die. A slow, lingering, painful, horrible death. Alone. Still your body, your choice?
E"I thought the vaccine had been handed out to the ones who need it the most , so what’s the problem ? The magic vaccine that doesn’t stop you catching the convid or spreading the convid , isn’t a vaccine , | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hahaha my vaccine is my fridge. I'm fit and healthy thanks. If I wasn't I'd stay indoors like we used too. When common sense was around seen as tho 2020 knocked it out of most ppl " Why do you keep talking about you? Also.. You don't know you are fit and healthy I can guarantee it! So unless you have intravenous vaccines on your fridge and /or you don't care if your healthy / possibly virus carrying self infects someone.. your comment is frankly pointless | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I meant this new Indian variant is what will be blamed for the ongoing deaths and adverse reactions thru to vaccination in this country " Well it won’t.... adverse reactions are published, they are there for all to research. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hahaha my vaccine is my fridge. I'm fit and healthy thanks. If I wasn't I'd stay indoors like we used too. When common sense was around seen as tho 2020 knocked it out of most ppl Why do you keep talking about you? Also.. You don't know you are fit and healthy I can guarantee it! So unless you have intravenous vaccines on your fridge and /or you don't care if your healthy / possibly virus carrying self infects someone.. your comment is frankly pointless " How can you guarantee if someone else is fit and healthy he may have had a clean bill health for the professionals ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No thank you for the jab. My body my choice. Hypothetical question. You have Covid, but no symptoms, so you don't know you have it. You pass Covid to your mum/dad/brother/sister/granny. They get it. And die. A slow, lingering, painful, horrible death. Alone. Still your body, your choice?
E
I thought the vaccine had been handed out to the ones who need it the most , so what’s the problem ? The magic vaccine that doesn’t stop you catching the convid or spreading the convid , isn’t a vaccine , "Your "thought" is irrelevant to my hypothetical question. Can you name a vaccine that's stops you getting the malady you're being protected against? The lack of understanding of how vaccines work and what they do is phenomenal. E | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Do you know that in America there's already been more deaths in the last 4mths down to vaccination than there has been from 1997 to 2013 from all vaccination??? Only 10%of them are recorded too due to lack of knowledge of vaers " Link please. Thanks. E | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Seeing a lot of “moral duty” comments, in my opinion there is a lot going in the world and that would benefit off your moral duty outside the vaccine, or is this JUST regarding the UK? Everyone is dutyfull when they don’t have to do much
The question is about the vaccine.
The clinical trial I'm on will likely benefit Australia, who are up shit creek on the vaccine front, and potentially others too.
And my vaccination is not the only thing I'm doing.
Although the original question is regarding vaxx I was responding to moral duty comments. I was just specifying there’s more going in the world other than vaccines that requires your moral compass, not specifically you but humans in general
Great your doing your bit for Australia though I’m sure they appreciate it.
Knock on, Australia are hoping to donate to PNG, who are in dire straits. New Zealand to Fiji.
It's not the only thing I'm doing by a long shot.
The most direct thing I can do to help here is get my jabs and stay away from people. And so I am.
I’m happy for you"I hope that's answered your question. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Seeing a lot of “moral duty” comments, in my opinion there is a lot going in the world and that would benefit off your moral duty outside the vaccine, or is this JUST regarding the UK? Everyone is dutyfull when they don’t have to do much
The question is about the vaccine.
The clinical trial I'm on will likely benefit Australia, who are up shit creek on the vaccine front, and potentially others too.
And my vaccination is not the only thing I'm doing.
Although the original question is regarding vaxx I was responding to moral duty comments. I was just specifying there’s more going in the world other than vaccines that requires your moral compass, not specifically you but humans in general
Great your doing your bit for Australia though I’m sure they appreciate it.
Knock on, Australia are hoping to donate to PNG, who are in dire straits. New Zealand to Fiji.
It's not the only thing I'm doing by a long shot.
The most direct thing I can do to help here is get my jabs and stay away from people. And so I am.
I’m happy for you
I hope that's answered your question."It does thanks | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I'm not spoon feeding you to be met with dissonance. I've been doing it for 14mths. Have a look yourself lazy arse " In other words, you don't have a link. Ok. E | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
You say you “researched it”.
I'm not sure you did.
Did you complete a literature review and write abstracts on each article? Or better yet, did you collect a random sample of sources and perform independent probability statistics on the reported results? No, no you didn’t.
Did you at least take each article, one by one and look into the source, (that’s would be the author, publisher and funder) then critique the writing for logical fallacies, cognitive distortions and plain inaccuracies? No, no you didn’t.
Did you ask yourself why this source might publish these particular results? Did you follow the trail of refences and apply the same source of scrutiny to them? No, no you didn’t.
No to all? Then you didn’t research anything.
You read or watched a video, most likely with little or no objectivity.
You came across something in your algorithm manipulated feed, something that aligned with your implicit biases and served your confirmation bias, and subsequently applied your emotional filters and called it proof.
E
Have you?
When there are internationally recognised experts and scientists in the fields re this issue as well as doctors expressing serious concerns would you dismiss them? I didn't, they made a more compelling arguement based on facts and rationale.
I'm reading "they made a more compelling arguement based on my confirmation bias"
You said you work in healthcare? It really can't be anything to do with virology or vaccination.
E
So anyone who isn't an expert in this field doesn't have a right to an informed opinion? Ok
Correct. Absolutely correct. If you're not an expert in the topic field how can you have an informed opinion?
You're not an expert, you have no knowledge or experience to make a valid, balanced and informed opinion.
You're doing nothing more than parroting someone else's hypothesis (nonsense) that confirms your bias and ignoring anything that refutes your misplaced beliefs.
One of the most dangerous ideas that has come about in the last few years is that all points of view are equally valid and the average citizen is just as equipped to judge which have merit as well as anyone else.
“Hear all sides and judge for yourself!!!!”
No. I do not condone the death of expertise and neither should you.
I am an expert in very few things. But in those areas my expertise is hard earned through study, work, experience, research and aptitude.
None of it comes from attending Google University or Facebook College.
But unless you are an expert in exactly the same areas your opinion is simply not just as valid as mine. It’s just not.
And my opinion is not as valid as experts in other fields. That is why “they” and not “I” are the experts.
If our leading experts agree that A is correct and a couple of discredited Doctors, or a self-appointed YouTube/Facebook expert makes a video that says B is correct, our response shouldn’t be “I’ll listen to both sides and decide what makes sense to me”.
1) If you yourself aren’t an expert, what qualifies you to determine which is correct?
2)Confirmation bias exists. (And only fools think they are free of it)
To paraphrase Asimov, “your ignorance is not the same as their experience”.
Genuinely smart people look for answers from people smarter than themselves.
And those smart people aren’t to be found posting YouTube videos from a room above their parents garage, while wearing only their pants.
My question to you is simple. What makes you qualified to determine which information is valid and which is not?
E
This is a pointless arguement. I'm quite happy to send links by pm re the papers and questions submitted by experts to the regulatory agencies. Make your own mind up then."My filters are down (God help me) feel free to send your links over, thanks. E | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes but why should I give you it? Research it yourself just like I did. Vaers chart USA " VAERS claimed that someone turned into the Incredible Hulk following a vaccine. There are no filters to enter into the database. Make of that what you will. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence "Not prudence. Getting vaxxed is a civic duty - ignore your own level of protection, it makes you less likely to pass on the virus if you do get it. So even IF, big if, you can get covid with impunity, you should still vax to protect others. Young fit people die and get long covid too, you know. Even if its less likely. Risks from vax are less than from infection. The only prudent thing to do is get the needle. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes but why should I give you it? Research it yourself just like I did. Vaers chart USA " If your research proves your point, why on earth wouldn't you share it? 
E | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The guilt shaming in society needs to stop,in the end everyone should be happy. The people who've all had it are happy,all the people who are against it have no quarrel with each other as they all on the same page,so at the end of the day the people who were all for it have what they want,they protected,the people who don't want it,all understand that we all have our own reasons. You get people saying its selfish for not taking the vaccine,but if all the people who want it are protected,then don't worry,you're safe,the only people who risk getting is the anti vaccine people,and they all understand the risk and what tools they have. And if the users say it's not 100% safe so we could still get covid...why the fuck pump your body full of it then if it's not 100%." Bang on fella!!!! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes but why should I give you it? Research it yourself just like I did. Vaers chart USA VAERS claimed that someone turned into the Incredible Hulk following a vaccine. There are no filters to enter into the database. Make of that what you will." Full on, shirt ripping, green? All that rage and pent up frustration. Goofy. Where can I get M to sign up for this jab, I fancy some freaky loving this weekend..... E | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes but why should I give you it? Research it yourself just like I did. Vaers chart USA VAERS claimed that someone turned into the Incredible Hulk following a vaccine. There are no filters to enter into the database. Make of that what you will. Full on, shirt ripping, green? All that rage and pent up frustration. Goofy. Where can I get M to sign up for this jab, I fancy some freaky loving this weekend..... E" Yeah, not gonna lie, sounds hot. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes but why should I give you it? Research it yourself just like I did. Vaers chart USA VAERS claimed that someone turned into the Incredible Hulk following a vaccine. There are no filters to enter into the database. Make of that what you will. Full on, shirt ripping, green? All that rage and pent up frustration. Goofy. Where can I get M to sign up for this jab, I fancy some freaky loving this weekend..... E Yeah, not gonna lie, sounds hot." Want to split a Hulk?
E | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Think I've been blocked by someone hahaha if you can't handle the heat stay out the kitchen. On a serious note tho. I'm here to offend anyone. I've actually met Charlie before and she's cool. I love a debate, I can do it all day but I really need to get back to work. I'll keep an eye on the thread later when bored. Have a nice day everyone and if I've offended anyone I'm genuinely sorry. I get a bit passionate about what I believe in ha x" After my own research perhaps I drew the conclusion that I really don’t need that outlook in my circle of friends? I love hedonism, I love independence but I’ve never embraced it at the expense of others. As with my choice to vaccinate I can choose who I want to exchange with within my hobby, no? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Just a suggestion - research Ivermectin and long covid, I have heard favorable reports, though not looked into it yet. Perhaps if you “haven’t looked into it” stop copy and pasting the same line over and over again in this forum... it’s very dull and actually quite misleading for some readers." I said i have not looked into it's use in long covid specifically. Try reading for comprehension, you might learn something. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"A temporary authorisation of the supply of an unlicensed vaccine could be given by the UK’s licensing authority under regulation 174 of the Human Medicines Regulations (see below). A COVID-19 vaccine would only be authorised in this way if the UK’s licensing authority was satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate the safety, quality and efficacy of the vaccine. ‘Unlicensed’ does not mean ‘untested’: this temporary authorisation process exists to address the possibility that, in certain situations of public health need, the licensing authority may consider that the balance of risk and benefit to patients justifies the temporary supply of the relevant vaccine pending the issue of a product licence. Regulation 345 of the Human Medicine Regulations transposes into UK law a requirement of EU law that key actors in the medicines supply chain cannot generally be sued in the civil courts for the consequences resulting from the use of an unlicensed product, or a new use of a licensed product, that a national licensing authority is recommending in order to deal with certain specific health threats. Read the above,its basically saying it's a chance they'll take. This is actually on the gov.uk website,so that's from the top. (this temporary authorisation process exists to address the possibility that, in certain situations of public health need, the licensing authority may consider that the balance of risk and benefit to patients justifies the temporary supply of the relevant vaccine pending the issue of a product licence) I see this. " A COVID-19 vaccine would only be authorised in this way if the UK’s licensing authority was satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate the safety, quality and efficacy of the vaccine." What's the problem, then? No problem,but if theres a window,I bet the safety,quality and efficancy was within the minimum requirements for release,because it takes years to test vaccines thoroughly before release,they couldn't wait years. You bet? Ok. It's obviously a terrible idea then. Of course it's not a bad idea, if theres a chance it's going to save more lives than lives covid is going to take,then it's a great idea,but it's a risk people have to take,and it's a risk I dont want to take,as I'm healthy,I've a strong immune system,no underlying health issues etc...so I'm happy with the tools I have. I would argue you may feel happy about the 'tools you have'.. It doesn't protect anyone else though from being infected by you ? My point being this is not actually about your health its about everyone else's. The old, weak etc are who we are trying to protect . And this is now slowly becoming quite a concern a cross the world .. Even within the government the mood is changing ..a quote I have heard recently is ' we can not allow this very small tail to wag the very big dog'.. So matter how healthy people are or think they are things will be changing .. That situation about freedom of choice may soon begin to change unless people start changing their minds .. I would imagine restrictions on non vaccinated people will slowly become harsher and more punitive once we all get out of this lockdown and everyone who agrees to it gets vaccinated etc.. My feeling is that if it becomes necessary we will see lots of rules about how we live, work and play being brought in which will eventually strong arm people into getting vaccinated at some point whether they agree or not .. It's clear as a society we can't have some who will and some who won't .. Only a matter of time I think and that's bound to bring its own problems unfortunately .. People who refuse the vaccine should be made to pay for eny treatment they may need in the future, as a result of there choices. Let's see how confident they are in being safe when facing a big bill "No you should have to pay for not being careful enough after getting a vaccine that doesn't stop you catching it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I genuinely never knew you had blocked me hahaha I clicked on another's profile. You do mate, I'm doing me x" Of course you didn’t, hence why you named me in your previous post... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Do you know that in America there's already been more deaths in the last 4mths down to vaccination than there has been from 1997 to 2013 from all vaccination??? Only 10%of them are recorded too due to lack of knowledge of vaers " Source? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes but why should I give you it? Research it yourself just like I did. Vaers chart USA VAERS claimed that someone turned into the Incredible Hulk following a vaccine. There are no filters to enter into the database. Make of that what you will. Full on, shirt ripping, green? All that rage and pent up frustration. Goofy. Where can I get M to sign up for this jab, I fancy some freaky loving this weekend..... E Yeah, not gonna lie, sounds hot. Want to split a Hulk?
E"Threesome. Yes  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hahaha my vaccine is my fridge. I'm fit and healthy thanks. If I wasn't I'd stay indoors like we used too. When common sense was around seen as tho 2020 knocked it out of most ppl Why do you keep talking about you? Also.. You don't know you are fit and healthy I can guarantee it! So unless you have intravenous vaccines on your fridge and /or you don't care if your healthy / possibly virus carrying self infects someone.. your comment is frankly pointless How can you guarantee if someone else is fit and healthy he may have had a clean bill health for the professionals ? " I can guarantee not everyone is as fit and healthy as they think. Unless someone does a lateral test every 24 hrs none of us can say we are 100 percent virus free.. That I would say is a fact.. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"That was a lame response that. Obesity crap??? Heart disease is the number 1 killer worldwide, is it not? Was gyms closed and McDonald's, off licences and pubs open??? There is more deaths linked to obesity from this virus than not. Debunk all of this, I'll wait I thought we believed in personal responsibility. Don't go to McDonald's. Exercise." I would add the word 'often' to both of those as common sense but not an order | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Yes but why should I give you it? Research it yourself just like I did. Vaers chart USA VAERS claimed that someone turned into the Incredible Hulk following a vaccine. There are no filters to enter into the database. Make of that what you will. Full on, shirt ripping, green? All that rage and pent up frustration. Goofy. Where can I get M to sign up for this jab, I fancy some freaky loving this weekend..... E Yeah, not gonna lie, sounds hot. Want to split a Hulk?
E
Threesome. Yes "I thought you'd never say yes!!!!
Someone's going to be pleased. And a bit tired. 
E | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Hahahaha stay indoors then you fool. You're part of the problem. Don't worry about the destruction of lives and livelihoods up and down the country. You probably prayed for a lockdown dumb ass" Do you deliberately not use quote+reply so no one can see who you're being abusive to?
E | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I don't even know how to use it. You've just pointed that out. I will no doubt start using it now I know. " A lack of thorough research???? No! Lol | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"No I won't. I've done my research and a risk analysis. COVID doesn't frighten me and in all likelihood would be from asymptomatic to moderate in someone my age who is healthy with no co-morbidities. I'd rather go with that than chancing something untested, with no long term studies of safety or efficacy. I'm not a lab rat but automatically become one if I get it. I've no issue with people getting the shots but tired of being called an anti vaxxer just because i'm showing prudence
You say you “researched it”.
I'm not sure you did.
Did you complete a literature review and write abstracts on each article? Or better yet, did you collect a random sample of sources and perform independent probability statistics on the reported results? No, no you didn’t.
Did you at least take each article, one by one and look into the source, (that’s would be the author, publisher and funder) then critique the writing for logical fallacies, cognitive distortions and plain inaccuracies? No, no you didn’t.
Did you ask yourself why this source might publish these particular results? Did you follow the trail of refences and apply the same source of scrutiny to them? No, no you didn’t.
No to all? Then you didn’t research anything.
You read or watched a video, most likely with little or no objectivity.
You came across something in your algorithm manipulated feed, something that aligned with your implicit biases and served your confirmation bias, and subsequently applied your emotional filters and called it proof.
E
Have you?
When there are internationally recognised experts and scientists in the fields re this issue as well as doctors expressing serious concerns would you dismiss them? I didn't, they made a more compelling arguement based on facts and rationale.
I'm reading "they made a more compelling arguement based on my confirmation bias"
You said you work in healthcare? It really can't be anything to do with virology or vaccination.
E
So anyone who isn't an expert in this field doesn't have a right to an informed opinion? Ok
Correct. Absolutely correct. If you're not an expert in the topic field how can you have an informed opinion?
You're not an expert, you have no knowledge or experience to make a valid, balanced and informed opinion.
You're doing nothing more than parroting someone else's hypothesis (nonsense) that confirms your bias and ignoring anything that refutes your misplaced beliefs.
One of the most dangerous ideas that has come about in the last few years is that all points of view are equally valid and the average citizen is just as equipped to judge which have merit as well as anyone else.
“Hear all sides and judge for yourself!!!!”
No. I do not condone the death of expertise and neither should you.
I am an expert in very few things. But in those areas my expertise is hard earned through study, work, experience, research and aptitude.
None of it comes from attending Google University or Facebook College.
But unless you are an expert in exactly the same areas your opinion is simply not just as valid as mine. It’s just not.
And my opinion is not as valid as experts in other fields. That is why “they” and not “I” are the experts.
If our leading experts agree that A is correct and a couple of discredited Doctors, or a self-appointed YouTube/Facebook expert makes a video that says B is correct, our response shouldn’t be “I’ll listen to both sides and decide what makes sense to me”.
1) If you yourself aren’t an expert, what qualifies you to determine which is correct?
2)Confirmation bias exists. (And only fools think they are free of it)
To paraphrase Asimov, “your ignorance is not the same as their experience”.
Genuinely smart people look for answers from people smarter than themselves.
And those smart people aren’t to be found posting YouTube videos from a room above their parents garage, while wearing only their pants.
My question to you is simple. What makes you qualified to determine which information is valid and which is not?
E
This is a pointless arguement. I'm quite happy to send links by pm re the papers and questions submitted by experts to the regulatory agencies. Make your own mind up then.
My filters are down (God help me) feel free to send your links over, thanks.
E "Links sent. More if interested. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The virtue signalling across the forums is getting pretty strong. Unless you were one of the people who took part in clinical studies to develop the vaccines this time last year or the one person on this thread who is currently doing so, then none of us can claim complete altruism for our actions. Nobody (apart from who I said above) has had the vaccine for any PRIMARY reason than to protect themselves. Clearly the by product is that you are also protecting others, but too many people seem to be positioning this as if they have done this primarily for the benefit of society/others. No you haven’t! If we knew for a fact that taking the vaccine would definitely cause some harm to you and THEN you had the jab, well then you are an amazing selfless person with every right to shout about “duty”. Otherwise you have protected yourself as a primary driver. Not saying that is wrong but folks should stop trying to imply they are some kind of hero." I was on the Oxford trials but primarily I did so for a hopefully better level of protection in the workplace. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The virtue signalling across the forums is getting pretty strong. Unless you were one of the people who took part in clinical studies to develop the vaccines this time last year or the one person on this thread who is currently doing so, then none of us can claim complete altruism for our actions. Nobody (apart from who I said above) has had the vaccine for any PRIMARY reason than to protect themselves. Clearly the by product is that you are also protecting others, but too many people seem to be positioning this as if they have done this primarily for the benefit of society/others. No you haven’t! If we knew for a fact that taking the vaccine would definitely cause some harm to you and THEN you had the jab, well then you are an amazing selfless person with every right to shout about “duty”. Otherwise you have protected yourself as a primary driver. Not saying that is wrong but folks should stop trying to imply they are some kind of hero." I got the vaccine early because my mother in law is on the vulnerable list and we help look after her, not to protect myself, lots of people will have had it for all sorts of reasons | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The virtue signalling across the forums is getting pretty strong. Unless you were one of the people who took part in clinical studies to develop the vaccines this time last year or the one person on this thread who is currently doing so, then none of us can claim complete altruism for our actions. Nobody (apart from who I said above) has had the vaccine for any PRIMARY reason than to protect themselves. Clearly the by product is that you are also protecting others, but too many people seem to be positioning this as if they have done this primarily for the benefit of society/others. No you haven’t! If we knew for a fact that taking the vaccine would definitely cause some harm to you and THEN you had the jab, well then you are an amazing selfless person with every right to shout about “duty”. Otherwise you have protected yourself as a primary driver. Not saying that is wrong but folks should stop trying to imply they are some kind of hero." They love posting there vaccine card on social media like they have saved the world. Most likely don't contribute nothing in there own society's they live in or city's in regards to making it a better place | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The virtue signalling across the forums is getting pretty strong. Unless you were one of the people who took part in clinical studies to develop the vaccines this time last year or the one person on this thread who is currently doing so, then none of us can claim complete altruism for our actions. Nobody (apart from who I said above) has had the vaccine for any PRIMARY reason than to protect themselves. Clearly the by product is that you are also protecting others, but too many people seem to be positioning this as if they have done this primarily for the benefit of society/others. No you haven’t! If we knew for a fact that taking the vaccine would definitely cause some harm to you and THEN you had the jab, well then you are an amazing selfless person with every right to shout about “duty”. Otherwise you have protected yourself as a primary driver. Not saying that is wrong but folks should stop trying to imply they are some kind of hero. I was on the Oxford trials but primarily I did so for a hopefully better level of protection in the workplace." Thank you. Also an honest answer. You say primarily workplace protection but at that point you didn’t know how safe (or safe at all?) the AZ vaccine would be right? I’d say that is pretty selfless. Ok two people on this thread (and counting?) | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Charlie you're still bitter I knocked you back in GH you big diva. Lose the ego, it will be ya downfall hun xxx" Can’t say I recall that, not that a knock back would bother me in the slightest anyway. I’m not sure I’m going to take life advice from a guy I’ve just blocked for being a bit too unbalanced though. But thanks for the sentiment x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The virtue signalling across the forums is getting pretty strong. Unless you were one of the people who took part in clinical studies to develop the vaccines this time last year or the one person on this thread who is currently doing so, then none of us can claim complete altruism for our actions. Nobody (apart from who I said above) has had the vaccine for any PRIMARY reason than to protect themselves. Clearly the by product is that you are also protecting others, but too many people seem to be positioning this as if they have done this primarily for the benefit of society/others. No you haven’t! If we knew for a fact that taking the vaccine would definitely cause some harm to you and THEN you had the jab, well then you are an amazing selfless person with every right to shout about “duty”. Otherwise you have protected yourself as a primary driver. Not saying that is wrong but folks should stop trying to imply they are some kind of hero. I got the vaccine early because my mother in law is on the vulnerable list and we help look after her, not to protect myself, lots of people will have had it for all sorts of reasons " But you still have the benefit. There is no disbenefit to you. That isn’t altruistic. Not wrong at all. But not altruistic. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Charlie you're still bitter I knocked you back in GH you big diva. Lose the ego, it will be ya downfall hun xxx Can’t say I recall that, not that a knock back would bother me in the slightest anyway. I’m not sure I’m going to take life advice from a guy I’ve just blocked for being a bit too unbalanced though. But thanks for the sentiment x" Unbalanced? For a difference of opinion? Good luck with the MRNA in ya system now that's irreversible BTW. You played your part (a Guinea pig) I know what side of history I wanna be on when the they tried to nail is us into communism. What did you do in this biblical time, rolled ya sleeve up like a coward. Ignorance is a choice at this time. You got jabbed and still can't do anything hahahaha now there's a 'new variant' and we will be locked down again by October November. It's called the great reset, it's all there too see. The world economic Forum. Klaus schwab. Fuck all to do with a virus | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The virtue signalling across the forums is getting pretty strong. Unless you were one of the people who took part in clinical studies to develop the vaccines this time last year or the one person on this thread who is currently doing so, then none of us can claim complete altruism for our actions. Nobody (apart from who I said above) has had the vaccine for any PRIMARY reason than to protect themselves. Clearly the by product is that you are also protecting others, but too many people seem to be positioning this as if they have done this primarily for the benefit of society/others. No you haven’t! If we knew for a fact that taking the vaccine would definitely cause some harm to you and THEN you had the jab, well then you are an amazing selfless person with every right to shout about “duty”. Otherwise you have protected yourself as a primary driver. Not saying that is wrong but folks should stop trying to imply they are some kind of hero. I was on the Oxford trials but primarily I did so for a hopefully better level of protection in the workplace. Thank you. Also an honest answer. You say primarily workplace protection but at that point you didn’t know how safe (or safe at all?) the AZ vaccine would be right? I’d say that is pretty selfless. Ok two people on this thread (and counting?)" It was in the 2nd stage of the research, I had already had covid so at that that stage became a point of interest to the study. We obviously where in daily contact with those suffering the most severe strains or viral loads of covid-19, our staff had been pretty much 80% infected including a few suspected second infections. Yes there was a risk but these kind of trials are ridiculously scrutinised and controlled. For me the risk was fairly negligible, the chance of a benefit was greater. As it turned out I was to later find out I had the placebo, I was then double vaccinated as part of the Moderna pre release trial final stage testing. If I’m totally honest Within all of these conversations I recall my years in the early 90’s and like many others of my generation chucked something from Bob the dealer down my neck for the hope of a better Friday night out... fast forward 30 years and the concept of risk within such controlled and monitored trials or indeed role outs seems insignificant. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The virtue signalling across the forums is getting pretty strong. Unless you were one of the people who took part in clinical studies to develop the vaccines this time last year or the one person on this thread who is currently doing so, then none of us can claim complete altruism for our actions. Nobody (apart from who I said above) has had the vaccine for any PRIMARY reason than to protect themselves. Clearly the by product is that you are also protecting others, but too many people seem to be positioning this as if they have done this primarily for the benefit of society/others. No you haven’t! If we knew for a fact that taking the vaccine would definitely cause some harm to you and THEN you had the jab, well then you are an amazing selfless person with every right to shout about “duty”. Otherwise you have protected yourself as a primary driver. Not saying that is wrong but folks should stop trying to imply they are some kind of hero. I was on the Oxford trials but primarily I did so for a hopefully better level of protection in the workplace." Valneva. My priorities are my family, my immediate community, the world, then myself. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"The virtue signalling across the forums is getting pretty strong. Unless you were one of the people who took part in clinical studies to develop the vaccines this time last year or the one person on this thread who is currently doing so, then none of us can claim complete altruism for our actions. Nobody (apart from who I said above) has had the vaccine for any PRIMARY reason than to protect themselves. Clearly the by product is that you are also protecting others, but too many people seem to be positioning this as if they have done this primarily for the benefit of society/others. No you haven’t! If we knew for a fact that taking the vaccine would definitely cause some harm to you and THEN you had the jab, well then you are an amazing selfless person with every right to shout about “duty”. Otherwise you have protected yourself as a primary driver. Not saying that is wrong but folks should stop trying to imply they are some kind of hero. I got the vaccine early because my mother in law is on the vulnerable list and we help look after her, not to protect myself, lots of people will have had it for all sorts of reasons But you still have the benefit. There is no disbenefit to you. That isn’t altruistic. Not wrong at all. But not altruistic." You don't know me, It could be one and only reason I had it, | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Charlie you're still bitter I knocked you back in GH you big diva. Lose the ego, it will be ya downfall hun xxx Can’t say I recall that, not that a knock back would bother me in the slightest anyway. I’m not sure I’m going to take life advice from a guy I’ve just blocked for being a bit too unbalanced though. But thanks for the sentiment x Unbalanced? For a difference of opinion? Good luck with the MRNA in ya system now that's irreversible BTW. You played your part (a Guinea pig) I know what side of history I wanna be on when the they tried to nail is us into communism. What did you do in this biblical time, rolled ya sleeve up like a coward. Ignorance is a choice at this time. You got jabbed and still can't do anything hahahaha now there's a 'new variant' and we will be locked down again by October November. It's called the great reset, it's all there too see. The world economic Forum. Klaus schwab. Fuck all to do with a virus " Squeak squeak xxx Now, where’s that double block button? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Charlie you're still bitter I knocked you back in GH you big diva. Lose the ego, it will be ya downfall hun xxx Can’t say I recall that, not that a knock back would bother me in the slightest anyway. I’m not sure I’m going to take life advice from a guy I’ve just blocked for being a bit too unbalanced though. But thanks for the sentiment x Unbalanced? For a difference of opinion? Good luck with the MRNA in ya system now that's irreversible BTW. You played your part (a Guinea pig) I know what side of history I wanna be on when the they tried to nail is us into communism. What did you do in this biblical time, rolled ya sleeve up like a coward. Ignorance is a choice at this time. You got jabbed and still can't do anything hahahaha now there's a 'new variant' and we will be locked down again by October November. It's called the great reset, it's all there too see. The world economic Forum. Klaus schwab. Fuck all to do with a virus " Is their a vaccine against Conspiracy Theories? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
