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Under a bus
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Know lots will be glad for more freedoms but anyone else feeling thrown under a bus by the government? It’s all set up for them to blame people if it all goes wrong |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Government - Lets extend restrictions
Everyone - It's a dictatorship we want our freedom back
Government - Lets remove restrictions
Everyone - How irresponsible.
The fact we keep on having spikes shows that there are a hard core who aren't adhering to the rules anyway.
Take responsibility for your own health and apply whatever measures you feel neccesary.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Don't think that one answer will cover it. Lots of people not happy with staying in and all the isolating and masks thing so they will be happy! Until they catch it and then it will be, we should have stayed unader restrictions. Then on the other hand if it goes well they will be saying should have lifted ages ago. Government are dammed if the do and dammed if they don't. But we all have to do what we want and feel is right. And then we all have to live with the consequences, good or bad! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Government - Lets extend restrictions
Everyone - It's a dictatorship we want our freedom back
Government - Lets remove restrictions
Everyone - How irresponsible.
The fact we keep on having spikes shows that there are a hard core who aren't adhering to the rules anyway.
Take responsibility for your own health and apply whatever measures you feel neccesary.
"
Absolutely. It’s people that are spreading the virus, not the Government, not the virus!
At the very start of this we had a neighbour that lived in the apartment above us. She was regularly going to see her boyfriend, then coming back home using the main front door and stairs that served 2 other apartments. Her boyfriend would regularly stay at hers despite the Government’s advice to stay at home. Oh I forgot to mention…..her boyfriend was a cardiac surgeon! Some people think that rules and regs don’t apply to them!! |
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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago
.. |
"Government - Lets extend restrictions
Everyone - It's a dictatorship we want our freedom back
Government - Lets remove restrictions
Everyone - How irresponsible.
The fact we keep on having spikes shows that there are a hard core who aren't adhering to the rules anyway.
Take responsibility for your own health and apply whatever measures you feel neccesary.
"
But that’s part of the issue isn’t it? You can take responsibility for yourself, wear a mask, keep your distance but if others have chosen not to do that then you have no control. I will wear a mask, I most definitely will keep my distance but ultimately if someone wants to breathe in my space without a mask, I can’t stop them. It’s not ideal. |
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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago
Dudley |
Thank goodness people are starting to see sense, we cannot blame the government for everything, it's about time we took some responsibility for stopping the spread too.
Boris did not say that everywhere has to open or that you have to attend places, or even that masks are now banned, take whatever precautions you still feel you need to take. |
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I think the immuno compromised have been thrown under the bus by this, waited longer times to get seen for treatment because of high cases, now they run the how to avoid non mask wearing covid spreaders, I feel so sorry for any patients who cannot hide away again and work from home  |
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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago
Dudley |
"Government - Lets extend restrictions
Everyone - It's a dictatorship we want our freedom back
Government - Lets remove restrictions
Everyone - How irresponsible.
The fact we keep on having spikes shows that there are a hard core who aren't adhering to the rules anyway.
Take responsibility for your own health and apply whatever measures you feel neccesary.
But that’s part of the issue isn’t it? You can take responsibility for yourself, wear a mask, keep your distance but if others have chosen not to do that then you have no control. I will wear a mask, I most definitely will keep my distance but ultimately if someone wants to breathe in my space without a mask, I can’t stop them. It’s not ideal. "
But that's not the government's fault either, that's the inconsiderate twunts fault.  |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Thank goodness people are starting to see sense, we cannot blame the government for everything, it's about time we took some responsibility for stopping the spread too.
Boris did not say that everywhere has to open or that you have to attend places, or even that masks are now banned, take whatever precautions you still feel you need to take. "
Exactly totally agree.  |
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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago
.. |
"Government - Lets extend restrictions
Everyone - It's a dictatorship we want our freedom back
Government - Lets remove restrictions
Everyone - How irresponsible.
The fact we keep on having spikes shows that there are a hard core who aren't adhering to the rules anyway.
Take responsibility for your own health and apply whatever measures you feel neccesary.
But that’s part of the issue isn’t it? You can take responsibility for yourself, wear a mask, keep your distance but if others have chosen not to do that then you have no control. I will wear a mask, I most definitely will keep my distance but ultimately if someone wants to breathe in my space without a mask, I can’t stop them. It’s not ideal.
But that's not the government's fault either, that's the inconsiderate twunts fault. "
The government have enabled it. They could have kept masks, they could have kept distancing but they didn’t. There is an army of folk all throwing their masks away as is their right, no thought for others though. They are no longer required to do these things. |
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"Know lots will be glad for more freedoms but anyone else feeling thrown under a bus by the government? It’s all set up for them to blame people if it all goes wrong "
Nah just look.at the responsibility shown by the ex health secretary
Ive got 100%faith in them |
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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago
Dudley |
"Agree there’s always folk who flout the rules but that’s no reason for recklessness…surely the first job of government is to protect lives? "
How long do you think restrictions need to last? |
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"Government - Lets extend restrictions
Everyone - It's a dictatorship we want our freedom back
Government - Lets remove restrictions
Everyone - How irresponsible.
The fact we keep on having spikes shows that there are a hard core who aren't adhering to the rules anyway.
Take responsibility for your own health and apply whatever measures you feel neccesary.
But that’s part of the issue isn’t it? You can take responsibility for yourself, wear a mask, keep your distance but if others have chosen not to do that then you have no control. I will wear a mask, I most definitely will keep my distance but ultimately if someone wants to breathe in my space without a mask, I can’t stop them. It’s not ideal. "
I find the fake cough, soon removes personal space invaders, they may not wear a mask, but they don't like people who cough near them  |
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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago
.. |
"Thank goodness people are starting to see sense, we cannot blame the government for everything, it's about time we took some responsibility for stopping the spread too.
Boris did not say that everywhere has to open or that you have to attend places, or even that masks are now banned, take whatever precautions you still feel you need to take. "
You can take precautions but if the person in front of you isn’t then you’re stuffed. So many workers will now be exposed to these inconsiderate people. |
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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago
Dudley |
"Government - Lets extend restrictions
Everyone - It's a dictatorship we want our freedom back
Government - Lets remove restrictions
Everyone - How irresponsible.
The fact we keep on having spikes shows that there are a hard core who aren't adhering to the rules anyway.
Take responsibility for your own health and apply whatever measures you feel neccesary.
But that’s part of the issue isn’t it? You can take responsibility for yourself, wear a mask, keep your distance but if others have chosen not to do that then you have no control. I will wear a mask, I most definitely will keep my distance but ultimately if someone wants to breathe in my space without a mask, I can’t stop them. It’s not ideal.
But that's not the government's fault either, that's the inconsiderate twunts fault.
The government have enabled it. They could have kept masks, they could have kept distancing but they didn’t. There is an army of folk all throwing their masks away as is their right, no thought for others though. They are no longer required to do these things. "
Sorry, that's not true, the restrictions haven't ended yet, Boris laid out the plan, it could change. I think the mask rules will still apply in certain circumstances. |
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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago
.. |
"Government - Lets extend restrictions
Everyone - It's a dictatorship we want our freedom back
Government - Lets remove restrictions
Everyone - How irresponsible.
The fact we keep on having spikes shows that there are a hard core who aren't adhering to the rules anyway.
Take responsibility for your own health and apply whatever measures you feel neccesary.
But that’s part of the issue isn’t it? You can take responsibility for yourself, wear a mask, keep your distance but if others have chosen not to do that then you have no control. I will wear a mask, I most definitely will keep my distance but ultimately if someone wants to breathe in my space without a mask, I can’t stop them. It’s not ideal.
I find the fake cough, soon removes personal space invaders, they may not wear a mask, but they don't like people who cough near them "
I’m going to be coughing a lot |
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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago
Dudley |
"Know lots will be glad for more freedoms but anyone else feeling thrown under a bus by the government? It’s all set up for them to blame people if it all goes wrong
Nah just look.at the responsibility shown by the ex health secretary
Ive got 100%faith in them"
 |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Agree there’s always folk who flout the rules but that’s no reason for recklessness…surely the first job of government is to protect lives?
How long do you think restrictions need to last? "
Ive not seen anyone prepared to answer that one. |
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"Agree there’s always folk who flout the rules but that’s no reason for recklessness…surely the first job of government is to protect lives? "
They have done a bang up job so far tbf.
What are we on 130,000 dead? |
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"Know lots will be glad for more freedoms but anyone else feeling thrown under a bus by the government? It’s all set up for them to blame people if it all goes wrong
Nah just look.at the responsibility shown by the ex health secretary
Ive got 100%faith in them
"
Good point.
Whu would anyone expect the people to set the rules to actually follow them?
Outrageous
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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago
.. |
"Government - Lets extend restrictions
Everyone - It's a dictatorship we want our freedom back
Government - Lets remove restrictions
Everyone - How irresponsible.
The fact we keep on having spikes shows that there are a hard core who aren't adhering to the rules anyway.
Take responsibility for your own health and apply whatever measures you feel neccesary.
But that’s part of the issue isn’t it? You can take responsibility for yourself, wear a mask, keep your distance but if others have chosen not to do that then you have no control. I will wear a mask, I most definitely will keep my distance but ultimately if someone wants to breathe in my space without a mask, I can’t stop them. It’s not ideal.
But that's not the government's fault either, that's the inconsiderate twunts fault.
The government have enabled it. They could have kept masks, they could have kept distancing but they didn’t. There is an army of folk all throwing their masks away as is their right, no thought for others though. They are no longer required to do these things.
Sorry, that's not true, the restrictions haven't ended yet, Boris laid out the plan, it could change. I think the mask rules will still apply in certain circumstances."
Certain circumstances possibly, but it will be interesting to see what exactly that means. Public transport? Shops? Doctors? Hospitals? The government have a duty of care to those workers not just to the people that want to bin masks. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"For the record, I think masks should still be required in all health settings, shops and public transport. "
But then you would have people saying they are sending mixed messages how come you dont have to in a nightclub or pub but have to in a shop? they cannot win in reality.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Agree there’s always folk who flout the rules but that’s no reason for recklessness…surely the first job of government is to protect lives?
How long do you think restrictions need to last? "
When this wave subsides for sure…risking 50-100000 cases a day with a virus we know mutates is scary |
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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago
.. |
All the way through people have called Boris a liar, criticised him constantly, accused him of not knowing what he was doing and yet … the other day he stood between epidemiologists and said there wasn’t a need to wear a mask and yet the people that actually know the science disagreed and said we should still wear them and said they would continue to wear them.
But who do people believe? Boris  people are so strange. |
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"All the way through people have called Boris a liar, criticised him constantly, accused him of not knowing what he was doing and yet … the other day he stood between epidemiologists and said there wasn’t a need to wear a mask and yet the people that actually know the science disagreed and said we should still wear them and said they would continue to wear them.
But who do people believe? Boris people are so strange. "
Boris
A liar
When did this happen? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"All the way through people have called Boris a liar, criticised him constantly, accused him of not knowing what he was doing and yet … the other day he stood between epidemiologists and said there wasn’t a need to wear a mask and yet the people that actually know the science disagreed and said we should still wear them and said they would continue to wear them.
But who do people believe? Boris people are so strange. "
|
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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago
.. |
"All the way through people have called Boris a liar, criticised him constantly, accused him of not knowing what he was doing and yet … the other day he stood between epidemiologists and said there wasn’t a need to wear a mask and yet the people that actually know the science disagreed and said we should still wear them and said they would continue to wear them.
But who do people believe? Boris people are so strange.
Boris
A liar
When did this happen?"
Shouldn’t start that rumour should we? |
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"All the way through people have called Boris a liar, criticised him constantly, accused him of not knowing what he was doing and yet … the other day he stood between epidemiologists and said there wasn’t a need to wear a mask and yet the people that actually know the science disagreed and said we should still wear them and said they would continue to wear them.
But who do people believe? Boris people are so strange.
Boris
A liar
When did this happen?
Shouldn’t start that rumour should we? "
1st I've heard.. when did this begin?
I'm sure it was just a mistake
|
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"Government - Lets extend restrictions
Everyone - It's a dictatorship we want our freedom back
Government - Lets remove restrictions
Everyone - How irresponsible.
The fact we keep on having spikes shows that there are a hard core who aren't adhering to the rules anyway.
Take responsibility for your own health and apply whatever measures you feel neccesary.
"
Totally agree and it’s what we’ve said all the time. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"All the way through people have called Boris a liar, criticised him constantly, accused him of not knowing what he was doing and yet … the other day he stood between epidemiologists and said there wasn’t a need to wear a mask and yet the people that actually know the science disagreed and said we should still wear them and said they would continue to wear them.
But who do people believe? Boris people are so strange.
Boris
A liar
When did this happen?
Shouldn’t start that rumour should we?
1st I've heard.. when did this begin?
I'm sure it was just a mistake
"
Maybe it’s the same bus that had £350 million a week for the NHS written on it |
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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago
.. |
"Should have realised this would just be another Boris bashing thread. "
I’m fairness, he has been proven to be a liar time and again. The only reason I mentioned him is because I find it bizarre that people ignore advice from epidemiologists in favour of a lying politician. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Should have realised this would just be another Boris bashing thread.
I’m fairness, he has been proven to be a liar time and again. The only reason I mentioned him is because I find it bizarre that people ignore advice from epidemiologists in favour of a lying politician. "
He’s notorious for throwing ex wives, colleagues, friends etc under several buses…there’s precedents |
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By *ik MMan
over a year ago
Lancashire |
It’s reported today that 9 in 10 UK adults have coronavirus antibodies, we’re told the vaccines are working, hospitalisations and deaths are down. However this still isn’t good enough for the zero Covid cult. Nothing ever will be. Should we expect masks, nannying and excuses for disruption ‘due to Covid’ for the rest of time?
If not now then when? |
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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago
.. |
"It’s reported today that 9 in 10 UK adults have coronavirus antibodies, we’re told the vaccines are working, hospitalisations and deaths are down. However this still isn’t good enough for the zero Covid cult. Nothing ever will be. Should we expect masks, nannying and excuses for disruption ‘due to Covid’ for the rest of time?
If not now then when? "
I would be happy for masks and some distancing to stay for forever and a day I’m not keen on people being in my space and I quite like the thought of limiting the spread of some viruses (not specifically covid). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Should have realised this would just be another Boris bashing thread.
I’m fairness, he has been proven to be a liar time and again. The only reason I mentioned him is because I find it bizarre that people ignore advice from epidemiologists in favour of a lying politician. "
I don't think Boris only has the virus to worry about. People seem to forget that there are many more things to consider than the virus and the virus alone. |
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Is it thrown under a bus though, he is handing responsibility back to us and businesses.
People can choose whether they want to continue to wear a mask, go to pubs, restaurants etc, just as businesses can choose the rules / requirements they need you to have to enter their premises.
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By *estivalMan
over a year ago
borehamwood |
Most peeps i know are working from home till furlough ends firm i work for are leaving up to individuals wether they want to carry on from home or come back into the office.and as for saying its to soon mabey bin restrictions in middle of winter mabey next spring or next summer or would u like them kept until covid vanishes??we was told vaccines were the way out cant keep putting off putting it to the test |
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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago
.. |
"Should have realised this would just be another Boris bashing thread.
I’m fairness, he has been proven to be a liar time and again. The only reason I mentioned him is because I find it bizarre that people ignore advice from epidemiologists in favour of a lying politician.
I don't think Boris only has the virus to worry about. People seem to forget that there are many more things to consider than the virus and the virus alone."
I’m referring to when he was holding a covid briefing so it was completely about covid. He said no need to wear masks - epidemiologists said to wear them. |
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By *amish SMan
over a year ago
Eastleigh |
When things settle out, I don't see what we have done will result in much difference to where others will end up. France is reducing measures without a large part of its population being vaccinated, other modern countries doing the same. This has the potential to cause their death rates to soar. Considering Germany was doing so well, their figures don't look good, take into account they don't record excess deaths then I would expect them to be on par with the UK.
The UK may not have handled it well to start with, but soon got its act together. What may have been poor decision making then might not be considered the wrong decision when the dust settles.
Look at Australia, did lockdown really well, vaccine uptake was poor as a result, now they are struggling with the Delta variant.
Despite Boris decisions looking bad, it looks like no other country got it right either. |
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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago
Dudley |
"Should have realised this would just be another Boris bashing thread.
I’m fairness, he has been proven to be a liar time and again. The only reason I mentioned him is because I find it bizarre that people ignore advice from epidemiologists in favour of a lying politician.
I don't think Boris only has the virus to worry about. People seem to forget that there are many more things to consider than the virus and the virus alone.
I’m referring to when he was holding a covid briefing so it was completely about covid. He said no need to wear masks - epidemiologists said to wear them. "
Noooo, you've misunderstood, he said you don't have to wear masks, he didn't say no need to, it's just not a legal requirement, Chris whitty said he will still wear them in certain circumstances.
Chris Whitty also agreed that there are benefits to reopening now rather than in the winter.
Also, covid impacts more than just the people who get it, that's why there is far more to it than just case numbers. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Thank goodness people are starting to see sense, we cannot blame the government for everything, it's about time we took some responsibility for stopping the spread too.
Boris did not say that everywhere has to open or that you have to attend places, or even that masks are now banned, take whatever precautions you still feel you need to take. "
|
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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago
.. |
"Should have realised this would just be another Boris bashing thread.
I’m fairness, he has been proven to be a liar time and again. The only reason I mentioned him is because I find it bizarre that people ignore advice from epidemiologists in favour of a lying politician.
I don't think Boris only has the virus to worry about. People seem to forget that there are many more things to consider than the virus and the virus alone.
I’m referring to when he was holding a covid briefing so it was completely about covid. He said no need to wear masks - epidemiologists said to wear them.
Noooo, you've misunderstood, he said you don't have to wear masks, he didn't say no need to, it's just not a legal requirement, Chris whitty said he will still wear them in certain circumstances.
Chris Whitty also agreed that there are benefits to reopening now rather than in the winter.
Also, covid impacts more than just the people who get it, that's why there is far more to it than just case numbers. "
He said you don’t have to so people won’t and already they are choosing not to. The epidemiologists said they would.
I’m not talking about the reopening, I’m referring specifically to wearing masks. I don’t think we should wait until winter to suddenly open everything up, I can see the merits of gradual lifting of some restrictions but not do I believe that one persons right to not wear a mask should put others at risk, surely we all have the right to feel safe? |
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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago
Dudley |
"Should have realised this would just be another Boris bashing thread.
I’m fairness, he has been proven to be a liar time and again. The only reason I mentioned him is because I find it bizarre that people ignore advice from epidemiologists in favour of a lying politician.
I don't think Boris only has the virus to worry about. People seem to forget that there are many more things to consider than the virus and the virus alone.
I’m referring to when he was holding a covid briefing so it was completely about covid. He said no need to wear masks - epidemiologists said to wear them.
Noooo, you've misunderstood, he said you don't have to wear masks, he didn't say no need to, it's just not a legal requirement, Chris whitty said he will still wear them in certain circumstances.
Chris Whitty also agreed that there are benefits to reopening now rather than in the winter.
Also, covid impacts more than just the people who get it, that's why there is far more to it than just case numbers.
He said you don’t have to so people won’t and already they are choosing not to. The epidemiologists said they would.
I’m not talking about the reopening, I’m referring specifically to wearing masks. I don’t think we should wait until winter to suddenly open everything up, I can see the merits of gradual lifting of some restrictions but not do I believe that one persons right to not wear a mask should put others at risk, surely we all have the right to feel safe? "
People have been doing that all along, I went to my local shopping centre and more than 50% of people weren't wearing masks.
Trust me, I know where you're coming from, I think vaccines should be mandatory. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Should have realised this would just be another Boris bashing thread.
I’m fairness, he has been proven to be a liar time and again. The only reason I mentioned him is because I find it bizarre that people ignore advice from epidemiologists in favour of a lying politician. "
I guess it depends on which scientists we choose. Mike Tyldsley who is a member of Spi m was interviewed a couple of days ago and said now is the best time to do it. You’ve got the firebreak of the 6 weeks school holiday and any increase in hospitalisations will not clash with the increased autumn/winter NHS pressures. |
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"Should have realised this would just be another Boris bashing thread.
I’m fairness, he has been proven to be a liar time and again. The only reason I mentioned him is because I find it bizarre that people ignore advice from epidemiologists in favour of a lying politician.
I don't think Boris only has the virus to worry about. People seem to forget that there are many more things to consider than the virus and the virus alone.
I’m referring to when he was holding a covid briefing so it was completely about covid. He said no need to wear masks - epidemiologists said to wear them. "
Classic
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By *i1971Man
over a year ago
Cornwall |
"Government - Lets extend restrictions
Everyone - It's a dictatorship we want our freedom back
Government - Lets remove restrictions
Everyone - How irresponsible.
The fact we keep on having spikes shows that there are a hard core who aren't adhering to the rules anyway.
Take responsibility for your own health and apply whatever measures you feel neccesary.
"
Exactly this - couldn't have put it better |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Should have realised this would just be another Boris bashing thread.
I’m fairness, he has been proven to be a liar time and again. The only reason I mentioned him is because I find it bizarre that people ignore advice from epidemiologists in favour of a lying politician.
I don't think Boris only has the virus to worry about. People seem to forget that there are many more things to consider than the virus and the virus alone.
I’m referring to when he was holding a covid briefing so it was completely about covid. He said no need to wear masks - epidemiologists said to wear them. "
He said it wouldn't be compulsory to wear them.
If you wish to continue wearing a mask then continue wearing one. Take responsibility for yourself. It's Almost as if some people need someone to blame for every decision they make. |
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Many of the simple steps are valuable and make minimal demands on people's lives, such as mask wearing. But have great effect! During a time when 100,000 people each day, the best part of a million a week, are planned to be infected, it's common sense and common decency to want to minimise the awful impacts on so many people, by having very simple controls.
We don't have enormous freedom over things that can cause serious problems for ourselves and others. Driving with poor vision, plus seatbelts as optional fittings and use are not uncontrolled freedoms ,nor driving on pavements, as society imposes restrictions for the common good, avoiding the tyranny of the loud self-interested types that refuse to do anything but their selfish demands.
Organised civilisations have risen above the chaos that prevails from the fickle immediacy of conflicting personal demands, flailing about like sewar rats in a sack. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Know lots will be glad for more freedoms but anyone else feeling thrown under a bus by the government? It’s all set up for them to blame people if it all goes wrong "
As someone immunosupressed and having isolated since last March... i feel like we have just been brushed under the carpet.. fully understand boutnopening everything up again, however something should have been put in place for the CEV. |
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By *issusWoman
over a year ago
Belfast |
"Government - Lets extend restrictions
Everyone - It's a dictatorship we want our freedom back
Government - Lets remove restrictions
Everyone - How irresponsible.
The fact we keep on having spikes shows that there are a hard core who aren't adhering to the rules anyway.
Take responsibility for your own health and apply whatever measures you feel neccesary.
But that’s part of the issue isn’t it? You can take responsibility for yourself, wear a mask, keep your distance but if others have chosen not to do that then you have no control. I will wear a mask, I most definitely will keep my distance but ultimately if someone wants to breathe in my space without a mask, I can’t stop them. It’s not ideal. "
You do know that you have the power to either walk further away or tell someone to back up right?
 |
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By *issusWoman
over a year ago
Belfast |
"Know lots will be glad for more freedoms but anyone else feeling thrown under a bus by the government? It’s all set up for them to blame people if it all goes wrong
As someone immunosupressed and having isolated since last March... i feel like we have just been brushed under the carpet.. fully understand boutnopening everything up again, however something should have been put in place for the CEV."
Lets close the whole world forever because this is not going away. That be a good solution? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Know lots will be glad for more freedoms but anyone else feeling thrown under a bus by the government? It’s all set up for them to blame people if it all goes wrong "
Yes 100%.
Government never on top of things, dithering and making poor decisions, using the chaos to make their mates richer, and constantly breaking the rules while expecting the little people to follow them.
The notion that rules are authoritarian is nonsense when we manage to live with safety-focused rules all the time. They were always about protecting people, particularly those most vulnerable.
As it stands, our government and PM have now got bored and want to move on to the next shiny thing, so pretend the public will act responsibly, absolving the government of blame and dressing it all up as personal responsibility.
Sadly, the problem with ‘living with the virus’ is that not everybody does. And we’ve taken a collective decision that we’re fine with sacrificing them |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Know lots will be glad for more freedoms but anyone else feeling thrown under a bus by the government? It’s all set up for them to blame people if it all goes wrong
As someone immunosupressed and having isolated since last March... i feel like we have just been brushed under the carpet.. fully understand boutnopening everything up again, however something should have been put in place for the CEV.
Lets close the whole world forever because this is not going away. That be a good solution? "
Not asking for whole world to close.. was asking for a bit more guidance.. sorry for looking out for my health and others in same situation as me.. |
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By *ommo60Man
over a year ago
STOCKPORT |
After seeing the millions of people nationwide celebrating England's win last night..hugging.kissing crawling all over each other..without one mask in site..regardless of your opinion to mask wearing..just get ready because in a few weeks time..it will be back..big time and the whole situation will have to be re-assessed.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Government - Lets extend restrictions
Everyone - It's a dictatorship we want our freedom back
Government - Lets remove restrictions
Everyone - How irresponsible.
The fact we keep on having spikes shows that there are a hard core who aren't adhering to the rules anyway.
Take responsibility for your own health and apply whatever measures you feel neccesary.
Absolutely. It’s people that are spreading the virus, not the Government, not the virus!
At the very start of this we had a neighbour that lived in the apartment above us. She was regularly going to see her boyfriend, then coming back home using the main front door and stairs that served 2 other apartments. Her boyfriend would regularly stay at hers despite the Government’s advice to stay at home. Oh I forgot to mention…..her boyfriend was a cardiac surgeon! Some people think that rules and regs don’t apply to them!!"
Oh my goodness, did you report this abhorrent and terrible crime to your local community warden? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Agree there’s always folk who flout the rules but that’s no reason for recklessness…surely the first job of government is to protect lives?
They have done a bang up job so far tbf.
What are we on 130,000 dead?"
What should the number look like? |
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"After seeing the millions of people nationwide celebrating England's win last night..hugging.kissing crawling all over each other..without one mask in site..regardless of your opinion to mask wearing..just get ready because in a few weeks time..it will be back..big time and the whole situation will have to be re-assessed.."
Scotland and Wales have both had big spikes.
There was a thread on here blaming wee nicola for the rise in infections. |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"Should have realised this would just be another Boris bashing thread. yeo same shit different day "
To be fair he is the one in charge and making the decisions. If people think they are rubbish decisions do they need to keep quite because the Johnsons supporters get upset? |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"Should have realised this would just be another Boris bashing thread.
I’m fairness, he has been proven to be a liar time and again. The only reason I mentioned him is because I find it bizarre that people ignore advice from epidemiologists in favour of a lying politician.
I don't think Boris only has the virus to worry about. People seem to forget that there are many more things to consider than the virus and the virus alone.
I’m referring to when he was holding a covid briefing so it was completely about covid. He said no need to wear masks - epidemiologists said to wear them.
Noooo, you've misunderstood, he said you don't have to wear masks, he didn't say no need to, it's just not a legal requirement, Chris whitty said he will still wear them in certain circumstances.
Chris Whitty also agreed that there are benefits to reopening now rather than in the winter.
"
He doesn't agree that masks should be not used though and was making a huge point of making sure people know that thought |
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I know things need to open up but I feel masks and social distancing should stay in place in public areas like shops and public transport and places where the most vulnerable people have no choice to mix with others.
If people want to go to nightclubs and parties etc where masks are not worn that is their choice and their risk but we all have to shop and travel so should still be keeping as much protection as possible in place to help those that need it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"After seeing the millions of people nationwide celebrating England's win last night..hugging.kissing crawling all over each other..without one mask in site..regardless of your opinion to mask wearing..just get ready because in a few weeks time..it will be back..big time and the whole situation will have to be re-assessed..
Scotland and Wales have both had big spikes.
There was a thread on here blaming wee nicola for the rise in infections."
No there wasn't |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"Should have realised this would just be another Boris bashing thread. yeo same shit different day
To be fair he is the one in charge and making the decisions. If people think they are rubbish decisions do they need to keep quite because the Johnsons supporters get upset?"
quiet* |
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"I know things need to open up but I feel masks and social distancing should stay in place in public areas like shops and public transport and places where the most vulnerable people have no choice to mix with others.
If people want to go to nightclubs and parties etc where masks are not worn that is their choice and their risk but we all have to shop and travel so should still be keeping as much protection as possible in place to help those that need it. "
I don't think the shops can be stopped from refusing non mask wearing entry though, it will be interesting to see what the supermarkets do regarding face coverings |
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"After seeing the millions of people nationwide celebrating England's win last night..hugging.kissing crawling all over each other..without one mask in site..regardless of your opinion to mask wearing..just get ready because in a few weeks time..it will be back..big time and the whole situation will have to be re-assessed..
Scotland and Wales have both had big spikes.
There was a thread on here blaming wee nicola for the rise in infections.
No there wasn't "
Course there wasnt
I just dreamt the why does Scotland have the biggest infection rate in europe thread which said..whsts nicola doing about it? |
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By *JB1954Man
over a year ago
Reading |
"I know things need to open up but I feel masks and social distancing should stay in place in public areas like shops and public transport and places where the most vulnerable people have no choice to mix with others.
If people want to go to nightclubs and parties etc where masks are not worn that is their choice and their risk but we all have to shop and travel so should still be keeping as much protection as possible in place to help those that need it.
I don't think the shops can be stopped from refusing non mask wearing entry though, it will be interesting to see what the supermarkets do regarding face coverings "
I think it will depend of how many of their staff become infected, or off sick isolating. So may say masks must be worn by shoppers. If not they may not be able to open / ensure tills , shelves are stocked etc. |
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"Know lots will be glad for more freedoms but anyone else feeling thrown under a bus by the government? It’s all set up for them to blame people if it all goes wrong "
Nope I think we have to separate extreme measures to combat an emergency situation from some mythical risk free environment.
Could the government keep restrictions in place, sure they could but for what purpose?
There will always be an element of risk through living. I fully accept that when that risk is above a level that society can cope with then we all need to work together to tackle that risk.
But the risk is now in line with other equivalent risks, so it can't be justified to keep controlling people at that level.
If a new virus or varient emerges then sure you look at the evidence and make the best decisions you can.
But the evidence seems to indicate high levels of infection are now managable on a social level.
For individuals there will still be tragic outcomes, but you are no longer looking at impacts that will take out entire health services or product mass deaths. |
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By *aycole1Man
over a year ago
liverpool |
"All the way through people have called Boris a liar, criticised him constantly, accused him of not knowing what he was doing and yet … the other day he stood between epidemiologists and said there wasn’t a need to wear a mask and yet the people that actually know the science disagreed and said we should still wear them and said they would continue to wear them.
But who do people believe? Boris people are so strange.
Boris
A liar
When did this happen?"
Every other day for 16 months  |
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"Good to see masks going.
They’re part of the problem & have become symbolic with keeping the fear factor going.
Not half "
Most people wear the cheap useless blue mask , not worth a cold cup off piss ,how many actually wear a mask that’s a scrap off good ie a approved one ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
If it all goes wrong is the question.
They have looked at all the data and been informed by people probably with awareness of the whole situation than we are. Currently death rates (and not from covid alone all death rates) are down on the 5 year average (ONS) covid was a new virus with no known treatments and highly infectious so fear was spread and it proved right. High infection rates and lots higher than normal death rates..now there are high numbers of infections but its causing less hospitalisation and death than a flu outbreak would yet we dont panic when flu is about...so now why should we panic when covid is about. Vaccines and medal treatments that have been developed have massively reduced hospitalisation and death rates of people with covid...so it's now time to learn to live with it as its not going away and get on with life in our opinion anyway.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Know lots will be glad for more freedoms but anyone else feeling thrown under a bus by the government? It’s all set up for them to blame people if it all goes wrong "
Not really no , it’s a matter of one using one’s own common sense , the government can’t keep holding people’s hands to cross the road |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"For the record, I think masks should still be required in all health settings, shops and public transport. "
I agree.
We clearly need to get the economy going again and there are some people who have lost their livelihoods, let alone other delayed health issues. But this also feels like completely throwing caution to the wind. Why relax everything? Why not another step forward but not full release?
The problem with this country (prob others too) is a general lack of common sense and decency about impacts on other people.
Imagine for a moment if Boris had said:
“While we are no longer making masks a legal requirement, we still strongly recommend that you continue to wear them on public transport and in health and care settings until such time as our infection levels have dropped below XYZ. Remember that wearing a mask is about protecting other people from you more than protecting yourself!”
Instead it just feels like govt are saying “not our problem now, it’s all down to you!” Which is fine if people are remotely intelligent or considerate. But many simply aren’t!
It will be interesting to revisit this in 6 weeks time and see where we are!
Bottom line to remember is that (regardless of what his supporters may say) we are mostly in this third wave mess because of the Delta Variant (aka Boris Variant formally Indian Variant). They (govt / Boris) knew about this weeks before finally closing borders to India. IT IS THE GOVT’S FAULT (and those travelling to/from India not showing common sense and consideration). |
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Said it before but I think the masks things is a massive gamble.
In my experience most people have been complying and its unusual to see someone walking round sainsburys without one.
Infections will shoot up no doubt, but the big question will be hospitalizations.
However they have clearly washed their hands off the whole affair so if things do get bad they do the usual trick of blaming someone else. |
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"Know lots will be glad for more freedoms but anyone else feeling thrown under a bus by the government? It’s all set up for them to blame people if it all goes wrong
Not really no , it’s a matter of one using one’s own common sense , the government can’t keep holding people’s hands to cross the road "
No because we would probally get hit with a bus |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"
Imagine for a moment if Boris had said:
“While we are no longer making masks a legal requirement, we still strongly recommend that you continue to wear them on public transport and in health and care settings until such time as our infection levels have dropped below XYZ. Remember that wearing a mask is about protecting other people from you more than protecting yourself!”
Instead it just feels like govt are saying “not our problem now, it’s all down to you!” Which is fine if people are remotely intelligent or considerate. But many simply aren’t!
It will be interesting to revisit this in 6 weeks time and see where we are!
."
This. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Know lots will be glad for more freedoms but anyone else feeling thrown under a bus by the government? It’s all set up for them to blame people if it all goes wrong
Not really no , it’s a matter of one using one’s own common sense , the government can’t keep holding people’s hands to cross the road
No because we would probally get hit with a bus"
Be positive. People are always wanting to blame someone else . People should take responsibility for their own actions & not keeping jumping on the blame train |
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"Know lots will be glad for more freedoms but anyone else feeling thrown under a bus by the government? It’s all set up for them to blame people if it all goes wrong
Not really no , it’s a matter of one using one’s own common sense , the government can’t keep holding people’s hands to cross the road
No because we would probally get hit with a bus
Be positive. People are always wanting to blame someone else . People should take responsibility for their own actions & not keeping jumping on the blame train "
Fully agree. |
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I agree people are not intellectual when making decisions.
However, we still allow these people to vote, drive, drink and operate heavy machinery.
Part of being free is the ability to be free of errors. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I agree people are not intellectual when making decisions.
However, we still allow these people to vote, drive, drink and operate heavy machinery.
Part of being free is the ability to be free of errors. "
Literally every single one of those activities is wrapped up in a whole series of laws and rules, to protect people from themselves, and more importantly to protect other people.
The idea that this is a choice between totalitarianism and freedom to choose sensibly is simply wrong.
|
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By *Marvel-Man
over a year ago
In The Gym |
From a scientific perspective this is pure lunacy. Cases rising and yet all restrictions will end.
Yet people will argue the death rate isn't rising due to vaccinations. (So its fine for millions to potential get coronavirus then as long as the death rate remains low?) Long covid could be a serious issue using that strategy.
Furthemore once cases rise the chances of further variants increases. There's always a chance that a variant will arise that has a certain set of mutations deeming the vaccines ineffective. Then what happens then? More lockdowns as that the only option.
Anyone who watched the announcement on Monday could clearly see whitty didn't agree yet had no choice but to go along with Boris. |
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"From a scientific perspective this is pure lunacy. Cases rising and yet all restrictions will end.
Yet people will argue the death rate isn't rising due to vaccinations. (So its fine for millions to potential get coronavirus then as long as the death rate remains low?) Long covid could be a serious issue using that strategy.
Furthemore once cases rise the chances of further variants increases. There's always a chance that a variant will arise that has a certain set of mutations deeming the vaccines ineffective. Then what happens then? More lockdowns as that the only option.
Anyone who watched the announcement on Monday could clearly see whitty didn't agree yet had no choice but to go along with Boris. "
I think you are adding an interpretation on what you saw reflective of your own views.
What he said matters.
Its not just death rates that are declining it is rates of hospitalisations and serious illness.
The scientists clearly said they accept higher rates of infect but do not expect this to translate to a significant number of long covid cases (I think there was a specific question from the press or public which drew this answer).
I do feel that people are really entrenched in their views and are not open to following the evidence.
I'm hardly in the anti vax brigade and I do believe lockdown work.
But I also think you have to use the same risk approach that you have will all human illness.
The difference here is that we don't mass test the public for influenza, so we don't see the millions infected each year. |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"From a scientific perspective this is pure lunacy. Cases rising and yet all restrictions will end.
Yet people will argue the death rate isn't rising due to vaccinations. (So its fine for millions to potential get coronavirus then as long as the death rate remains low?) Long covid could be a serious issue using that strategy.
Furthemore once cases rise the chances of further variants increases. There's always a chance that a variant will arise that has a certain set of mutations deeming the vaccines ineffective. Then what happens then? More lockdowns as that the only option.
Anyone who watched the announcement on Monday could clearly see whitty didn't agree yet had no choice but to go along with Boris. "
Everyone has a choice, I suppose it depends on how much integrity you have. I know I am not in that position but I really don't think I could stand there agreeing with what someone said if I knew or thought different about a public health issue as big as this |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"After seeing the millions of people nationwide celebrating England's win last night..hugging.kissing crawling all over each other..without one mask in site..regardless of your opinion to mask wearing..just get ready because in a few weeks time..it will be back..big time and the whole situation will have to be re-assessed..
Scotland and Wales have both had big spikes.
There was a thread on here blaming wee nicola for the rise in infections.
No there wasn't
Course there wasnt
I just dreamt the why does Scotland have the biggest infection rate in europe thread which said..whsts nicola doing about it?"
'What's Nicola doing about the increase in infections?' Is not the same as 'it's Nicola's fault there's been an increase in infections'
So no, there was not a thread blaming Nicola for the increase |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"
The scientists clearly said they accept higher rates of infect but do not expect this to translate to a significant number of long covid cases (I think there was a specific question from the press or public which drew this answer).
"
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/chris-whitty-warns-double-winter-24472971 |
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"
The scientists clearly said they accept higher rates of infect but do not expect this to translate to a significant number of long covid cases (I think there was a specific question from the press or public which drew this answer).
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/chris-whitty-warns-double-winter-24472971"
But he said soaring case rates will mean more unvaccinated people will be struck by the disorder, defined as symptoms persisting for more than four weeks.
This comes full circle to a personal responsibility to get vacinnated to reduce the impact and avoid long covid. |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"
The scientists clearly said they accept higher rates of infect but do not expect this to translate to a significant number of long covid cases (I think there was a specific question from the press or public which drew this answer).
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/chris-whitty-warns-double-winter-24472971
But he said soaring case rates will mean more unvaccinated people will be struck by the disorder, defined as symptoms persisting for more than four weeks.
This comes full circle to a personal responsibility to get vacinnated to reduce the impact and avoid long covid. "
You were saying he answered differently on the press conference, this was the day after in a conference. That was the point I was making. |
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"After seeing the millions of people nationwide celebrating England's win last night..hugging.kissing crawling all over each other..without one mask in site..regardless of your opinion to mask wearing..just get ready because in a few weeks time..it will be back..big time and the whole situation will have to be re-assessed..
Scotland and Wales have both had big spikes.
There was a thread on here blaming wee nicola for the rise in infections.
No there wasn't
Course there wasnt
I just dreamt the why does Scotland have the biggest infection rate in europe thread which said..whsts nicola doing about it?
'What's Nicola doing about the increase in infections?' Is not the same as 'it's Nicola's fault there's been an increase in infections'
So no, there was not a thread blaming Nicola for the increase"
|
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That is all this merry gang ever ever do play the blame game?? typical conservative tactic and it works ?? just look at.....soon be blaming the junior doctrs/doctors/nurses as it will all be their fault about the waiting list and looking like most spending will be frozen so be the teachers etc etc next up ..like waiting for a bs with this lot ...remember it is all the "EU" though !! but not having to wear a face mask is hardly ...  |
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"
The scientists clearly said they accept higher rates of infect but do not expect this to translate to a significant number of long covid cases (I think there was a specific question from the press or public which drew this answer).
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/chris-whitty-warns-double-winter-24472971"
Surely that's a complete contradiction in the light of Johnsons removal of masks enforcement etc? |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"
The scientists clearly said they accept higher rates of infect but do not expect this to translate to a significant number of long covid cases (I think there was a specific question from the press or public which drew this answer).
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/chris-whitty-warns-double-winter-24472971
Surely that's a complete contradiction in the light of Johnsons removal of masks enforcement etc?"
It sure looks that way yes |
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"
The scientists clearly said they accept higher rates of infect but do not expect this to translate to a significant number of long covid cases (I think there was a specific question from the press or public which drew this answer).
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/chris-whitty-warns-double-winter-24472971
Surely that's a complete contradiction in the light of Johnsons removal of masks enforcement etc?
It sure looks that way yes"
Why doesn't he come out and say it?
Its clearly 2 different messages..and of course it will be the fault of the public if it goes tits up. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Know lots will be glad for more freedoms but anyone else feeling thrown under a bus by the government? It’s all set up for them to blame people if it all goes wrong "
How can it be anyone else's fault other than the individual when they get a virus.. |
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"Know lots will be glad for more freedoms but anyone else feeling thrown under a bus by the government? It’s all set up for them to blame people if it all goes wrong
How can it be anyone else's fault other than the individual when they get a virus.."
So if you get the virus it's your own fault for being stupid? |
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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago
Dudley |
"Should have realised this would just be another Boris bashing thread.
I’m fairness, he has been proven to be a liar time and again. The only reason I mentioned him is because I find it bizarre that people ignore advice from epidemiologists in favour of a lying politician.
I don't think Boris only has the virus to worry about. People seem to forget that there are many more things to consider than the virus and the virus alone.
I’m referring to when he was holding a covid briefing so it was completely about covid. He said no need to wear masks - epidemiologists said to wear them.
Noooo, you've misunderstood, he said you don't have to wear masks, he didn't say no need to, it's just not a legal requirement, Chris whitty said he will still wear them in certain circumstances.
Chris Whitty also agreed that there are benefits to reopening now rather than in the winter.
He doesn't agree that masks should be not used though and was making a huge point of making sure people know that thought"
That's what I said, Chris Whitty said that he will be wearing masks in certain circumstances but people have misrepresented what was said. |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"
The scientists clearly said they accept higher rates of infect but do not expect this to translate to a significant number of long covid cases (I think there was a specific question from the press or public which drew this answer).
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/chris-whitty-warns-double-winter-24472971
Surely that's a complete contradiction in the light of Johnsons removal of masks enforcement etc?
It sure looks that way yes
Why doesn't he come out and say it?
Its clearly 2 different messages..and of course it will be the fault of the public if it goes tits up."
Keeping his job instead of having some integrity? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Know lots will be glad for more freedoms but anyone else feeling thrown under a bus by the government? It’s all set up for them to blame people if it all goes wrong
How can it be anyone else's fault other than the individual when they get a virus..
So if you get the virus it's your own fault for being stupid?"
Who elses fault is it? |
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"Know lots will be glad for more freedoms but anyone else feeling thrown under a bus by the government? It’s all set up for them to blame people if it all goes wrong
How can it be anyone else's fault other than the individual when they get a virus..
So if you get the virus it's your own fault for being stupid?"
The quote is quite specific in that he sees any rise in long covid will impact the unvacinnated.
So there is an argument that if you do not get the vacinne that is now a personal choice rather than a limit on availability.
So if its personal choice not to be vaccinated should the rest of society be responsible for the outcome of your choice.
So should the 90-95% continue to live under the restrictions for the benefits of of the 5-10% who refuse the vacinne. |
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"Know lots will be glad for more freedoms but anyone else feeling thrown under a bus by the government? It’s all set up for them to blame people if it all goes wrong
How can it be anyone else's fault other than the individual when they get a virus..
So if you get the virus it's your own fault for being stupid?
Who elses fault is it?"
Surely blame isn't placed in a global pandemic, you still have to live. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Government - Lets extend restrictions
Everyone - It's a dictatorship we want our freedom back
Government - Lets remove restrictions
Everyone - How irresponsible.
The fact we keep on having spikes shows that there are a hard core who aren't adhering to the rules anyway.
Take responsibility for your own health and apply whatever measures you feel neccesary.
Absolutely. It’s people that are spreading the virus, not the Government, not the virus!
At the very start of this we had a neighbour that lived in the apartment above us. She was regularly going to see her boyfriend, then coming back home using the main front door and stairs that served 2 other apartments. Her boyfriend would regularly stay at hers despite the Government’s advice to stay at home. Oh I forgot to mention…..her boyfriend was a cardiac surgeon! Some people think that rules and regs don’t apply to them!!"
Ridiculous rules that many ignored. Why obey the lockdown when the government didn't even bother stopping flights?
The rules were convoluted and not readily enforced.
Lead by example is something foreign to politicians as we witnessed during the supposed lockdown. |
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"Know lots will be glad for more freedoms but anyone else feeling thrown under a bus by the government? It’s all set up for them to blame people if it all goes wrong
How can it be anyone else's fault other than the individual when they get a virus..
So if you get the virus it's your own fault for being stupid?
Who elses fault is it?"
So we have a moron running the country.
Cheers for clearing that up
|
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"Know lots will be glad for more freedoms but anyone else feeling thrown under a bus by the government? It’s all set up for them to blame people if it all goes wrong
How can it be anyone else's fault other than the individual when they get a virus..
So if you get the virus it's your own fault for being stupid?
The quote is quite specific in that he sees any rise in long covid will impact the unvacinnated.
So there is an argument that if you do not get the vacinne that is now a personal choice rather than a limit on availability.
So if its personal choice not to be vaccinated should the rest of society be responsible for the outcome of your choice.
So should the 90-95% continue to live under the restrictions for the benefits of of the 5-10% who refuse the vacinne. "
Witty argues we should do everything possible to limit the spread as infections are going to rocket.
Johnson says wear a mask of you want.
They are 2 completely contradictory arguments. |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"
The quote is quite specific in that he sees any rise in long covid will impact the unvacinnated.
"
But that wasn't what you said he had said so why people are showing you the contradiction
You said....."The scientists clearly said they accept higher rates of infect but do not expect this to translate to a significant number of long covid cases " |
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"
The quote is quite specific in that he sees any rise in long covid will impact the unvacinnated.
But that wasn't what you said he had said so why people are showing you the contradiction
You said....."The scientists clearly said they accept higher rates of infect but do not expect this to translate to a significant number of long covid cases ""
The ambiguity is around the world significance. What do you es that mean.
So there can be an insignificant rise in the number of long covid cases as a proportion of the population.
Or there can be an insignificant rise in the number of long covid cases as a proportion of long covid case.
But there at the same time can be a significant increase in long covid cases amongst those not vacinnated.
For example if 90% of the population are vacinnated and therefore unlikely to get long covid. Then the number of additional cases of long covid in the population is likely to be insignificant.
But of those not vacinnated it is likely that with infection rates being higher, those unvacinnated are likely to have a significant number contract long covid.
So the same number can be both significant and non significant depending on the population you use. |
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"Know lots will be glad for more freedoms but anyone else feeling thrown under a bus by the government? It’s all set up for them to blame people if it all goes wrong "
Not really.
I’m still going to wear masks, I’m not going to go to large venues or gatherings. I won’t be mixing and matching who I hang out with on a regular basis.
I plan to keep all of these things for some time to come until I personally feel it’s safe to start to drop my guard. I don’t need or want the government to tell me what I can/can’t do anymore.
I’d rather have the choice and exercise it with caution. |
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This is why language is terrible when talking about science and maths.
You have to be precise and only numbers can do that.
X amount of additional long covid cases expected with the lifting of restrictions.
Y cases in the vacinnated
Z cases in the unvacinnated
Resulting in the number of long cases in the wider population not rising significantly.
But the number of case of long covid in the unvacinnated population rising significantly. |
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"This is why language is terrible when talking about science and maths.
You have to be precise and only numbers can do that.
X amount of additional long covid cases expected with the lifting of restrictions.
Y cases in the vacinnated
Z cases in the unvacinnated
Resulting in the number of long cases in the wider population not rising significantly.
But the number of case of long covid in the unvacinnated population rising significantly. "
And because this lot have fucked the young and they aren't yet vaccinated... And now see no reason so to do as all bets are now off... Its the young who are at risk of the longest of long covid journeys. |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"
The quote is quite specific in that he sees any rise in long covid will impact the unvacinnated.
But that wasn't what you said he had said so why people are showing you the contradiction
You said....."The scientists clearly said they accept higher rates of infect but do not expect this to translate to a significant number of long covid cases "
The ambiguity is around the world significance. What do you es that mean.
So there can be an insignificant rise in the number of long covid cases as a proportion of the population.
Or there can be an insignificant rise in the number of long covid cases as a proportion of long covid case.
But there at the same time can be a significant increase in long covid cases amongst those not vacinnated.
For example if 90% of the population are vacinnated and therefore unlikely to get long covid. Then the number of additional cases of long covid in the population is likely to be insignificant.
But of those not vacinnated it is likely that with infection rates being higher, those unvacinnated are likely to have a significant number contract long covid.
So the same number can be both significant and non significant depending on the population you use.
"
You made no mention of vaccination/ unvaccinated in your post, then said the quote is specific about unvaccinated |
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What?
I think you need to go back and reread.
I said that in the public announcement, the scientist's were asked about the impact on long covid cases and the scientists responded saying that infections where high but the impact on long covid was not significant enough to delay the lifting of government mandated restrictions.
The article you highlighted from the mirror was very specific about one group and how they would be impacted.
I have no vested interest in either extremes of this argument.
I am not anti vax and I'm not anti lockdown. But I am also not pro lockdown until all risk is eliminated.
I think the scientists where clear, yes there is a risk but not enough of one to justify the keeping of restrictions.
Its a balanced view. One that is lacking on here as you appear to have to be either all in one camp or the other. If you try to be balanced and reasonably you get accused from both sides of pushing an agenda.
I was simply explaining that mathematically the same number can be described as both significant and insignificant depending on the size of the group it is being measured against.
The press conference and the mirror article talk about different groups (not me).
|
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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago
.. |
"Government - Lets extend restrictions
Everyone - It's a dictatorship we want our freedom back
Government - Lets remove restrictions
Everyone - How irresponsible.
The fact we keep on having spikes shows that there are a hard core who aren't adhering to the rules anyway.
Take responsibility for your own health and apply whatever measures you feel neccesary.
But that’s part of the issue isn’t it? You can take responsibility for yourself, wear a mask, keep your distance but if others have chosen not to do that then you have no control. I will wear a mask, I most definitely will keep my distance but ultimately if someone wants to breathe in my space without a mask, I can’t stop them. It’s not ideal.
You do know that you have the power to either walk further away or tell someone to back up right?
"
Thank you for that, of course I do. People are doing that in various jobs already and all you get is abuse. I shouldn’t have to move - they shouldn’t be in my space. It’s as simple as that. Respect other peoples boundaries and be considerate. |
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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago
.. |
"Should have realised this would just be another Boris bashing thread. yeo same shit different day "
If you take the money and the responsibility then you have to accept the criticism as well. Particularly if things aren’t going well. |
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"What?
I think you need to go back and reread.
I said that in the public announcement, the scientist's were asked about the impact on long covid cases and the scientists responded saying that infections where high but the impact on long covid was not significant enough to delay the lifting of government mandated restrictions.
The article you highlighted from the mirror was very specific about one group and how they would be impacted.
I have no vested interest in either extremes of this argument.
I am not anti vax and I'm not anti lockdown. But I am also not pro lockdown until all risk is eliminated.
I think the scientists where clear, yes there is a risk but not enough of one to justify the keeping of restrictions.
Its a balanced view. One that is lacking on here as you appear to have to be either all in one camp or the other. If you try to be balanced and reasonably you get accused from both sides of pushing an agenda.
I was simply explaining that mathematically the same number can be described as both significant and insignificant depending on the size of the group it is being measured against.
The press conference and the mirror article talk about different groups (not me).
"
I watched a Prof on BBC this morning... Reicher I think. One of the 100 or so who signed an open letter to the bmj and lancet. He was very balanced and Compelling.
He reckons long covid cases are currently running at about 10 percent of infections. 100k infections would be 10k long covid cases a day. |
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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago
.. |
"Should have realised this would just be another Boris bashing thread.
I’m fairness, he has been proven to be a liar time and again. The only reason I mentioned him is because I find it bizarre that people ignore advice from epidemiologists in favour of a lying politician.
I don't think Boris only has the virus to worry about. People seem to forget that there are many more things to consider than the virus and the virus alone.
I’m referring to when he was holding a covid briefing so it was completely about covid. He said no need to wear masks - epidemiologists said to wear them.
He said it wouldn't be compulsory to wear them.
If you wish to continue wearing a mask then continue wearing one. Take responsibility for yourself. It's Almost as if some people need someone to blame for every decision they make."
I am going to take responsibility for myself, unfortunately though, people who decide to be in my space without a mask and any consideration for me, undermine all of that. The mask is for the protection of others not me. People are making decisions that will impact on others health potentially.
How am I blaming others for my decision? I’m blaming them for their decision because I believe it to be a selfish act.
They will wear a mask on a train but not in a pub, they will wear a mask for this reason but not for that … contradictory. |
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"What?
I think you need to go back and reread.
I said that in the public announcement, the scientist's were asked about the impact on long covid cases and the scientists responded saying that infections where high but the impact on long covid was not significant enough to delay the lifting of government mandated restrictions.
The article you highlighted from the mirror was very specific about one group and how they would be impacted.
I have no vested interest in either extremes of this argument.
I am not anti vax and I'm not anti lockdown. But I am also not pro lockdown until all risk is eliminated.
I think the scientists where clear, yes there is a risk but not enough of one to justify the keeping of restrictions.
Its a balanced view. One that is lacking on here as you appear to have to be either all in one camp or the other. If you try to be balanced and reasonably you get accused from both sides of pushing an agenda.
I was simply explaining that mathematically the same number can be described as both significant and insignificant depending on the size of the group it is being measured against.
The press conference and the mirror article talk about different groups (not me).
I watched a Prof on BBC this morning... Reicher I think. One of the 100 or so who signed an open letter to the bmj and lancet. He was very balanced and Compelling.
He reckons long covid cases are currently running at about 10 percent of infections. 100k infections would be 10k long covid cases a day. "
There are some spreadsheets produced by the ons on long covid
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/datasets/alldatarelatingtoprevalenceofongoingsymptomsfollowingcoronaviruscovid19infectionintheuk
|
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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago
Dudley |
"Should have realised this would just be another Boris bashing thread. yeo same shit different day
If you take the money and the responsibility then you have to accept the criticism as well. Particularly if things aren’t going well. "
Criticism is absolutely fine, unfortunately it's gone beyond that, it's become shirking personal responsibility and blaming the government for every little thing.
It's not the governments fault if someone coughs on you or invades your personal space, that's completely on them.
It's not the governments fault that people won't follow the rules.
The government are responsible for certain things in this pandemic, and unfortunately, it's highly unlikely that anyone will actually face any consequences, but they are not responsible for an individual making personal decisions. |
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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago
.. |
"Should have realised this would just be another Boris bashing thread. yeo same shit different day
If you take the money and the responsibility then you have to accept the criticism as well. Particularly if things aren’t going well.
Criticism is absolutely fine, unfortunately it's gone beyond that, it's become shirking personal responsibility and blaming the government for every little thing.
It's not the governments fault if someone coughs on you or invades your personal space, that's completely on them.
It's not the governments fault that people won't follow the rules.
The government are responsible for certain things in this pandemic, and unfortunately, it's highly unlikely that anyone will actually face any consequences, but they are not responsible for an individual making personal decisions. "
I think there will always be those people looking for others to blame for their actions, that’s age old. Nonetheless, this government is making the rules or withdrawing the rules and it is inevitable that they will be criticised for it.
If the government removes the need for masks I will criticise them for that decision because I believe it is wrong to do it. I think they can take the criticism, they don’t seem phased by it to me. |
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"What?
I think you need to go back and reread.
I said that in the public announcement, the scientist's were asked about the impact on long covid cases and the scientists responded saying that infections where high but the impact on long covid was not significant enough to delay the lifting of government mandated restrictions.
The article you highlighted from the mirror was very specific about one group and how they would be impacted.
I have no vested interest in either extremes of this argument.
I am not anti vax and I'm not anti lockdown. But I am also not pro lockdown until all risk is eliminated.
I think the scientists where clear, yes there is a risk but not enough of one to justify the keeping of restrictions.
Its a balanced view. One that is lacking on here as you appear to have to be either all in one camp or the other. If you try to be balanced and reasonably you get accused from both sides of pushing an agenda.
I was simply explaining that mathematically the same number can be described as both significant and insignificant depending on the size of the group it is being measured against.
The press conference and the mirror article talk about different groups (not me).
I watched a Prof on BBC this morning... Reicher I think. One of the 100 or so who signed an open letter to the bmj and lancet. He was very balanced and Compelling.
He reckons long covid cases are currently running at about 10 percent of infections. 100k infections would be 10k long covid cases a day.
There are some spreadsheets produced by the ons on long covid
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/datasets/alldatarelatingtoprevalenceofongoingsymptomsfollowingcoronaviruscovid19infectionintheuk
"
OK... Thanks...any clue what it's actually measuring though? It seems to be an analysis based on experimental statistics? But good to know they are starting to look into it now. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Government - Lets extend restrictions
Everyone - It's a dictatorship we want our freedom back
Government - Lets remove restrictions
Everyone - How irresponsible.
The fact we keep on having spikes shows that there are a hard core who aren't adhering to the rules anyway.
Take responsibility for your own health and apply whatever measures you feel neccesary.
Absolutely. It’s people that are spreading the virus, not the Government, not the virus!
At the very start of this we had a neighbour that lived in the apartment above us. She was regularly going to see her boyfriend, then coming back home using the main front door and stairs that served 2 other apartments. Her boyfriend would regularly stay at hers despite the Government’s advice to stay at home. Oh I forgot to mention…..her boyfriend was a cardiac surgeon! Some people think that rules and regs don’t apply to them!!"
Surely the cause of spikes are new variants? i.e. Kent and Delta
And that was caused by lockdown itself (viruses mutate to be able to spread) and our government failed to close the border in time for the Delta variant and in January 2020 when they knew about what was happening in China.
SO ITS NOT THE FAULT OF YOUR NEIGHBOUR |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Government - Lets extend restrictions
Everyone - It's a dictatorship we want our freedom back
Government - Lets remove restrictions
Everyone - How irresponsible.
The fact we keep on having spikes shows that there are a hard core who aren't adhering to the rules anyway.
Take responsibility for your own health and apply whatever measures you feel neccesary.
Absolutely. It’s people that are spreading the virus, not the Government, not the virus!
At the very start of this we had a neighbour that lived in the apartment above us. She was regularly going to see her boyfriend, then coming back home using the main front door and stairs that served 2 other apartments. Her boyfriend would regularly stay at hers despite the Government’s advice to stay at home. Oh I forgot to mention…..her boyfriend was a cardiac surgeon! Some people think that rules and regs don’t apply to them!!
Surely the cause of spikes are new variants? i.e. Kent and Delta
And that was caused by lockdown itself (viruses mutate to be able to spread) and our government failed to close the border in time for the Delta variant and in January 2020 when they knew about what was happening in China.
SO ITS NOT THE FAULT OF YOUR NEIGHBOUR "
How was the Kent variante caused by a lock down because we weren't in lock down when the Kent variant was discovered? |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"What?
I think you need to go back and reread.
I said that in the public announcement, the scientist's were asked about the impact on long covid cases and the scientists responded saying that infections where high but the impact on long covid was not significant enough to delay the lifting of government mandated restrictions.
The article you highlighted from the mirror was very specific about one group and how they would be impacted.
I have no vested interest in either extremes of this argument.
I am not anti vax and I'm not anti lockdown. But I am also not pro lockdown until all risk is eliminated.
I think the scientists where clear, yes there is a risk but not enough of one to justify the keeping of restrictions.
Its a balanced view. One that is lacking on here as you appear to have to be either all in one camp or the other. If you try to be balanced and reasonably you get accused from both sides of pushing an agenda.
I was simply explaining that mathematically the same number can be described as both significant and insignificant depending on the size of the group it is being measured against.
The press conference and the mirror article talk about different groups (not me).
"
I did read.
It was talking about long covid being a problem ( reported by many sources from a conference that day ), where they mentioned it will be a big problem, yet what you mentioned said it wouldn't be significant enough
It seems it will be significant, for whatever group, so means he is contradicting himself
Which brings me full circle. |
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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago
Dudley |
"Should have realised this would just be another Boris bashing thread. yeo same shit different day
If you take the money and the responsibility then you have to accept the criticism as well. Particularly if things aren’t going well.
Criticism is absolutely fine, unfortunately it's gone beyond that, it's become shirking personal responsibility and blaming the government for every little thing.
It's not the governments fault if someone coughs on you or invades your personal space, that's completely on them.
It's not the governments fault that people won't follow the rules.
The government are responsible for certain things in this pandemic, and unfortunately, it's highly unlikely that anyone will actually face any consequences, but they are not responsible for an individual making personal decisions.
I think there will always be those people looking for others to blame for their actions, that’s age old. Nonetheless, this government is making the rules or withdrawing the rules and it is inevitable that they will be criticised for it.
If the government removes the need for masks I will criticise them for that decision because I believe it is wrong to do it. I think they can take the criticism, they don’t seem phased by it to me. "
I do think that will change and I think masks will still be required in certain settings, which I totally agree with. |
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By *ohnj21Man
over a year ago
Leeds |
"Yes gov lack leadership and don't take responsibility
Maybe should have proper leaders like
Southgate. van tam and captain tom
I don't think you thought that through lol."
? Why
Don't you agree there better leaders.
Sad captain Tom's gone.
Van tam only one I believe on press conferences |
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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago
Dudley |
"Yes gov lack leadership and don't take responsibility
Maybe should have proper leaders like
Southgate. van tam and captain tom
I don't think you thought that through lol.
? Why
Don't you agree there better leaders.
Sad captain Tom's gone.
Van tam only one I believe on press conferences"
It was mainly the Captain Tom comment. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Government - Lets extend restrictions
Everyone - It's a dictatorship we want our freedom back
Government - Lets remove restrictions
Everyone - How irresponsible.
The fact we keep on having spikes shows that there are a hard core who aren't adhering to the rules anyway.
Take responsibility for your own health and apply whatever measures you feel neccesary.
Absolutely. It’s people that are spreading the virus, not the Government, not the virus!
At the very start of this we had a neighbour that lived in the apartment above us. She was regularly going to see her boyfriend, then coming back home using the main front door and stairs that served 2 other apartments. Her boyfriend would regularly stay at hers despite the Government’s advice to stay at home. Oh I forgot to mention…..her boyfriend was a cardiac surgeon! Some people think that rules and regs don’t apply to them!!
Surely the cause of spikes are new variants? i.e. Kent and Delta
And that was caused by lockdown itself (viruses mutate to be able to spread) and our government failed to close the border in time for the Delta variant and in January 2020 when they knew about what was happening in China.
SO ITS NOT THE FAULT OF YOUR NEIGHBOUR
How was the Kent variante caused by a lock down because we weren't in lock down when the Kent variant was discovered?"
Im begining to think you just like querying everything I say and not researching yourself. Viruses always mutates...the only way to discover new variants is through genome sequencing ..it just so happens that the first positive case they found in kent had this particular variant..this was in october 2020....1st lockdown was in March 2020 and so this variant managed to get around the restictions that were in place in November 2020 ( regional lockdowns) to Jan 2021....which shows that the first lockdown made it find ways to evade restrictions. Now imagine what a vaccine would do to a virus that mutates? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Government - Lets extend restrictions
Everyone - It's a dictatorship we want our freedom back
Government - Lets remove restrictions
Everyone - How irresponsible.
The fact we keep on having spikes shows that there are a hard core who aren't adhering to the rules anyway.
Take responsibility for your own health and apply whatever measures you feel neccesary.
Absolutely. It’s people that are spreading the virus, not the Government, not the virus!
At the very start of this we had a neighbour that lived in the apartment above us. She was regularly going to see her boyfriend, then coming back home using the main front door and stairs that served 2 other apartments. Her boyfriend would regularly stay at hers despite the Government’s advice to stay at home. Oh I forgot to mention…..her boyfriend was a cardiac surgeon! Some people think that rules and regs don’t apply to them!!"
It is people that spread the virus. But a decent and efficient government would not have the level of deaths seen in the UK if this incompetent lot of ministers were good at their job.
It probably has come to a point where the government has to set the population free, though and I'm sure most will be responsible and follow still some restraint. The past indiscretions of this government may undermine that. So while people must take responsibility the main task of any government is to keep the populus safe, and in this task this Tory government have failed miserably. |
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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago
Dudley |
"Government - Lets extend restrictions
Everyone - It's a dictatorship we want our freedom back
Government - Lets remove restrictions
Everyone - How irresponsible.
The fact we keep on having spikes shows that there are a hard core who aren't adhering to the rules anyway.
Take responsibility for your own health and apply whatever measures you feel neccesary.
Absolutely. It’s people that are spreading the virus, not the Government, not the virus!
At the very start of this we had a neighbour that lived in the apartment above us. She was regularly going to see her boyfriend, then coming back home using the main front door and stairs that served 2 other apartments. Her boyfriend would regularly stay at hers despite the Government’s advice to stay at home. Oh I forgot to mention…..her boyfriend was a cardiac surgeon! Some people think that rules and regs don’t apply to them!!
Surely the cause of spikes are new variants? i.e. Kent and Delta
And that was caused by lockdown itself (viruses mutate to be able to spread) and our government failed to close the border in time for the Delta variant and in January 2020 when they knew about what was happening in China.
SO ITS NOT THE FAULT OF YOUR NEIGHBOUR
How was the Kent variante caused by a lock down because we weren't in lock down when the Kent variant was discovered?
Im begining to think you just like querying everything I say and not researching yourself. Viruses always mutates...the only way to discover new variants is through genome sequencing ..it just so happens that the first positive case they found in kent had this particular variant..this was in october 2020....1st lockdown was in March 2020 and so this variant managed to get around the restictions that were in place in November 2020 ( regional lockdowns) to Jan 2021....which shows that the first lockdown made it find ways to evade restrictions. Now imagine what a vaccine would do to a virus that mutates?"
We had months between the first lockdown and the second where restrictions were pretty minimal, that went on until September, so it's more likely the virus mutated during those summer months when people were mixing. |
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"Know lots will be glad for more freedoms but anyone else feeling thrown under a bus by the government? It’s all set up for them to blame people if it all goes wrong "
There should not have been any lockdowm ever
The issue is we have no opposition
Boris and his elite scumbag mates = lockdown
Labour and their commie buddies = bigger lockdowns
Both need removing |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Government - Lets extend restrictions
Everyone - It's a dictatorship we want our freedom back
Government - Lets remove restrictions
Everyone - How irresponsible.
The fact we keep on having spikes shows that there are a hard core who aren't adhering to the rules anyway.
Take responsibility for your own health and apply whatever measures you feel neccesary.
But that’s part of the issue isn’t it? You can take responsibility for yourself, wear a mask, keep your distance but if others have chosen not to do that then you have no control. I will wear a mask, I most definitely will keep my distance but ultimately if someone wants to breathe in my space without a mask, I can’t stop them. It’s not ideal.
You do know that you have the power to either walk further away or tell someone to back up right?
Thank you for that, of course I do. People are doing that in various jobs already and all you get is abuse. I shouldn’t have to move - they shouldn’t be in my space. It’s as simple as that. Respect other peoples boundaries and be considerate. "
We live in a society where it has become the responsibility of those being affected by the inconsiderate behaviour of others to take action and put themselves at risk of abuse or looking like the unreasonable one. So many selfish a holes in this world. |
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"Government - Lets extend restrictions
Everyone - It's a dictatorship we want our freedom back
Government - Lets remove restrictions
Everyone - How irresponsible.
The fact we keep on having spikes shows that there are a hard core who aren't adhering to the rules anyway.
Take responsibility for your own health and apply whatever measures you feel neccesary.
Absolutely. It’s people that are spreading the virus, not the Government, not the virus!
At the very start of this we had a neighbour that lived in the apartment above us. She was regularly going to see her boyfriend, then coming back home using the main front door and stairs that served 2 other apartments. Her boyfriend would regularly stay at hers despite the Government’s advice to stay at home. Oh I forgot to mention…..her boyfriend was a cardiac surgeon! Some people think that rules and regs don’t apply to them!!
It is people that spread the virus. But a decent and efficient government would not have the level of deaths seen in the UK if this incompetent lot of ministers were good at their job.
It probably has come to a point where the government has to set the population free, though and I'm sure most will be responsible and follow still some restraint. The past indiscretions of this government may undermine that. So while people must take responsibility the main task of any government is to keep the populus safe, and in this task this Tory government have failed miserably."
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Get the personal responsibility arguments but taken to its logical extreme why have laws in the first place? Strange world when the ‘law and order’ party decide to take a such a massive gamble with health and well-being….and at the same time move to cut universal credit by £20 a week…ah yes that’s an issue of‘personal responsibility’ too…Southgate for PM! |
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"Get the personal responsibility arguments but taken to its logical extreme why have laws in the first place? Strange world when the ‘law and order’ party decide to take a such a massive gamble with health and well-being….and at the same time move to cut universal credit by £20 a week…ah yes that’s an issue of‘personal responsibility’ too…Southgate for PM!"
Why does it have to be taken to its extreme?
That's the way American politics works. Someone suggests a minor tweak to gun control and then people who are against it immediately push it to the extreme of they want to remove the American right to bear arms.
I thought until recently that we were more nuanced in this country. You can favour personal responsibility without suggesting that all laws be cancelled.
Just like you can support government intervention without suggesting that we become a communist state.
Surely we can have debate on the issue without the need to jump to hyperbolic examples.
This is why I prefer numbers as you can be more exact.
Current death rate is 28 a day
Current hospital admissions are 456 per day.
Equivalent to
10220 deaths a year
166,440 hospital admissions
So the question is what number do they have to fall to before you lift the final restrictions.
For flu society accepts that there are no restrictions when the rates are..
20k-30k deaths
(I am not going to lie I can't find a solid figure for flu hospitalisations. I've seen as high as 5000 a week in January 2018, but that would be an extreme. I think low hundreds is more like the average.) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So sorry for the loss of your dad…Rick’s mum too in December…caught in hospital…‘Xmas as normal’…"
Thank you same to your hubby, it only takes one to get it and pass it around the family, my mum nearly died of it, 5 of us had it at the same time |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"So sorry for the loss of your dad…Rick’s mum too in December…caught in hospital…‘Xmas as normal’…
Thank you same to your hubby, it only takes one to get it and pass it around the family, my mum nearly died of it, 5 of us had it at the same time"
 x |
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"Get the personal responsibility arguments but taken to its logical extreme why have laws in the first place? Strange world when the ‘law and order’ party decide to take a such a massive gamble with health and well-being….and at the same time move to cut universal credit by £20 a week…ah yes that’s an issue of‘personal responsibility’ too…Southgate for PM!
Why does it have to be taken to its extreme?
That's the way American politics works. Someone suggests a minor tweak to gun control and then people who are against it immediately push it to the extreme of they want to remove the American right to bear arms.
I thought until recently that we were more nuanced in this country. You can favour personal responsibility without suggesting that all laws be cancelled.
Just like you can support government intervention without suggesting that we become a communist state.
Surely we can have debate on the issue without the need to jump to hyperbolic examples.
This is why I prefer numbers as you can be more exact.
Current death rate is 28 a day
Current hospital admissions are 456 per day.
Equivalent to
10220 deaths a year
166,440 hospital admissions
So the question is what number do they have to fall to before you lift the final restrictions.
For flu society accepts that there are no restrictions when the rates are..
20k-30k deaths
(I am not going to lie I can't find a solid figure for flu hospitalisations. I've seen as high as 5000 a week in January 2018, but that would be an extreme. I think low hundreds is more like the average.) "
A good point well made. And if the options for covid were only death or recovery it makes perfect sense. But we have huge numbers of infections and of those some will suffer long covid. The concept of long flu does not exist. So we need to be mindful that just letting covid rip is going to have some fairly devastating consequences for some of our youngsters... And is a massive and irresponsible gamble. It's a gamble because the outcome is unknown. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
Long Covid...
There will be some who exploit this and shirk work.
There will be many who claim most people declaring long covid are work shy scroungers.
There will be many for whom long covid is genuinely debilitating with hugely adverse impact on their life both in terms of health and ability to make a living.
The welfare and healthcare bill will increase to support people with long covid.
We need more data/better understanding of long covid as, at present, it would appear that basing a full lifting of restrictions on hospitalisation and death numbers may only reveal the tip of a big iceberg of trouble. |
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"...
A good point well made. And if the options for covid were only death or recovery it makes perfect sense. But we have huge numbers of infections and of those some will suffer long covid. The concept of long flu does not exist. So we need to be mindful that just letting covid rip is going to have some fairly devastating consequences for some of our youngsters... And is a massive and irresponsible gamble. It's a gamble because the outcome is unknown. "
Well yes but all decisions are a gamble as no outcomes are known until they land.
I'm curious on the youngsters aspect as I saw this mentioned early on in the thread.
To my knowledge all people over the age of 18 can get a jab.
If we are talking about children then I'm not aware of any data regarding children getting long covid.
Indeed as I understand it the reason the vacinne has not yet been offered to under 18's is due to covid having minimal impacts for that age group.
So not sure which group you feel is being gambled on. |
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"Long Covid...
There will be some who exploit this and shirk work.
There will be many who claim most people declaring long covid are work shy scroungers.
There will be many for whom long covid is genuinely debilitating with hugely adverse impact on their life both in terms of health and ability to make a living.
The welfare and healthcare bill will increase to support people with long covid.
We need more data/better understanding of long covid as, at present, it would appear that basing a full lifting of restrictions on hospitalisation and death numbers may only reveal the tip of a big iceberg of trouble."
Agree. The biggest worry for me (I have 2 very close contacts suffering with it) is the damage to cognitive processing and ability. It's really fucked them up. An acutely sharp mind turned old. I find the change in policy from vaccine acquired herd immunity to naturally acquired herd immunity reckless and has further damaged the drive for vaccines and autumn boosters whose numbers are now dropping. |
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