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Most COVID deaths in England now are in the vaccinated – here’s why that shouldn’t alarm you
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Most Covid deaths in England are now in the vaccinated - here’s why that shouldn’t alarm you.
https://theconversation.com/most-covid-deaths-in-england-now-are-in-the-vaccinated-heres-why-that-shouldnt-alarm-you-163671
Originally published in The Conversation
Author Christian Yates, University of Bath.
Publication allowed under the Creative Commons License |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Most Covid deaths in England are now in the vaccinated - here’s why that shouldn’t alarm you.
https://theconversation.com/most-covid-deaths-in-england-now-are-in-the-vaccinated-heres-why-that-shouldnt-alarm-you-163671
Originally published in The Conversation
Author Christian Yates, University of Bath.
Publication allowed under the Creative Commons License "
Thanks for this but I don't really need to be told the obvious conclusions. It's just common sense if you have down your research. To many people are spinning this for their own aims and scaremongering. Unfortunately not everyone has common sense or would have done their research so thanks for putting this on here for them. |
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By *drianukMan
over a year ago
Spain, Lancs |
Tests conducted by Pfizer, AZ, Johnson and Johnson (Janssen) and Moderns were started with two groups for comparison...the vaccinated and a control get of the unvaccinated. That is good science.
They have now 'unrandomised' the tests by offering vaccines to the control groups. Moderna reports that 98% of the unvaccinated group have now been vaccinated
I can't for the life of me see how the efficacy or safety of such vaccines can now be honestly assessed. Anyone know? |
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"Tests conducted by Pfizer, AZ, Johnson and Johnson (Janssen) and Moderns were started with two groups for comparison...the vaccinated and a control get of the unvaccinated. That is good science.
They have now 'unrandomised' the tests by offering vaccines to the control groups. Moderna reports that 98% of the unvaccinated group have now been vaccinated
I can't for the life of me see how the efficacy or safety of such vaccines can now be honestly assessed. Anyone know?"
What, you expect that trial conditions should continue after the end of the trial?
As a trial participant, I consider that would be a violation of my human rights and likely beyond the permitted scope of the Declaration of Helsinki.
I have the right to leave a study at any time, and I'm pretty sure it's unethical to use placebo where treatment options exist.
What about my human rights? |
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By *drianukMan
over a year ago
Spain, Lancs |
The trials were still ongoing.
Giving the vaccine was discussed with participants. There was no dishonesty.
But how can proper comparisons be made where the control group is no longer any different to the vaccinated group?
Anyone see a way around this? |
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"The trials were still ongoing.
Giving the vaccine was discussed with participants. There was no dishonesty.
But how can proper comparisons be made where the control group is no longer any different to the vaccinated group?
Anyone see a way around this?"
No, after trials end, those offered a placebo are offered the vaccine which the trial has shown to be effective. As per any drug, the approval is based on phases 1, 2, and 3. You're thinking about phase 4, which is post marketing safety monitoring, not involving trial volunteers.
Are you suggesting that trial participants should be deprived of an intervention that medical authorities have judged to be safe, for purity of data?
That they should be endangered by an ongoing pandemic, outside any ethical protocol for human subjects?
That their participation should be involuntarily extended indefinitely?
Goodness, how unethical.
Maybe we should look at the data of the people who are not vaccinated instead, rather than blatantly violating ethical standards which derive from the 1940s-50s.
Public collated data, anonymised. You know, like we're already doing. |
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"Tests conducted by Pfizer, AZ, Johnson and Johnson (Janssen) and Moderns were started with two groups for comparison...the vaccinated and a control get of the unvaccinated. That is good science.
They have now 'unrandomised' the tests by offering vaccines to the control groups. Moderna reports that 98% of the unvaccinated group have now been vaccinated
I can't for the life of me see how the efficacy or safety of such vaccines can now be honestly assessed. Anyone know?
What, you expect that trial conditions should continue after the end of the trial?
As a trial participant, I consider that would be a violation of my human rights and likely beyond the permitted scope of the Declaration of Helsinki.
I have the right to leave a study at any time, and I'm pretty sure it's unethical to use placebo where treatment options exist.
What about my human rights?"
What, do you mean that they let the test subjects out of the cages at the end of the trials? I thought that big pharma were an evil empire performing unethical experimentation on puppies, kittens and homeless people that they picked up off the streets! It's the escape of the mutated creatures from the Wuhan lab that got us into this mess in the first place. I know it's true, they made a movie about it, it's called The Evil Dead. These labs need to be fitted with automatic flamethrowers to stop escapees, and nuclear failsafe devices so that the entire city can be toasted if something should get out! |
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By *drianukMan
over a year ago
Spain, Lancs |
The British Medical Journal stated:
The BMJ asked Moderna, Pfizer, and Janssen (Johnson and Johnson) what proportion of trial participants were now formally unblinded, and how many originally allocated to placebo have now received a vaccine. Pfizer declined to say, but Moderna announced that 'as of April 13, all placebo participants have been offered the Moderna Covid-19 vaccine and 98% of those have received the vaccine.' In other words, the trial is unblinded, and the placebo group no longer exists. Janssen … confirmed it was implementing an amended protocol across all countries to unblind all participants in its two phase III trials. |
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"Tests conducted by Pfizer, AZ, Johnson and Johnson (Janssen) and Moderns were started with two groups for comparison...the vaccinated and a control get of the unvaccinated. That is good science.
They have now 'unrandomised' the tests by offering vaccines to the control groups. Moderna reports that 98% of the unvaccinated group have now been vaccinated
I can't for the life of me see how the efficacy or safety of such vaccines can now be honestly assessed. Anyone know?
What, you expect that trial conditions should continue after the end of the trial?
As a trial participant, I consider that would be a violation of my human rights and likely beyond the permitted scope of the Declaration of Helsinki.
I have the right to leave a study at any time, and I'm pretty sure it's unethical to use placebo where treatment options exist.
What about my human rights?
What, do you mean that they let the test subjects out of the cages at the end of the trials? I thought that big pharma were an evil empire performing unethical experimentation on puppies, kittens and homeless people that they picked up off the streets! It's the escape of the mutated creatures from the Wuhan lab that got us into this mess in the first place. I know it's true, they made a movie about it, it's called The Evil Dead. These labs need to be fitted with automatic flamethrowers to stop escapees, and nuclear failsafe devices so that the entire city can be toasted if something should get out!"
The lab I go to has a temperature gun and a driveway. And they make us wear masks.
And they have biscuits. |
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"The British Medical Journal stated:
The BMJ asked Moderna, Pfizer, and Janssen (Johnson and Johnson) what proportion of trial participants were now formally unblinded, and how many originally allocated to placebo have now received a vaccine. Pfizer declined to say, but Moderna announced that 'as of April 13, all placebo participants have been offered the Moderna Covid-19 vaccine and 98% of those have received the vaccine.' In other words, the trial is unblinded, and the placebo group no longer exists. Janssen … confirmed it was implementing an amended protocol across all countries to unblind all participants in its two phase III trials."
The phase three trials which are over and reported on, yes? |
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By *Marvel-Man
over a year ago
In The Gym |
"Tests conducted by Pfizer, AZ, Johnson and Johnson (Janssen) and Moderns were started with two groups for comparison...the vaccinated and a control get of the unvaccinated. That is good science.
They have now 'unrandomised' the tests by offering vaccines to the control groups. Moderna reports that 98% of the unvaccinated group have now been vaccinated
I can't for the life of me see how the efficacy or safety of such vaccines can now be honestly assessed. Anyone know?"
All you need to do is read about clinical trials. Then read what happens with the unvaccinated participants once the trial ends. Then you'd not even be asking this. |
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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago
The South |
"Tests conducted by Pfizer, AZ, Johnson and Johnson (Janssen) and Moderns were started with two groups for comparison...the vaccinated and a control get of the unvaccinated. That is good science.
They have now 'unrandomised' the tests by offering vaccines to the control groups. Moderna reports that 98% of the unvaccinated group have now been vaccinated
I can't for the life of me see how the efficacy or safety of such vaccines can now be honestly assessed. Anyone know?
What, you expect that trial conditions should continue after the end of the trial?
As a trial participant, I consider that would be a violation of my human rights and likely beyond the permitted scope of the Declaration of Helsinki.
I have the right to leave a study at any time, and I'm pretty sure it's unethical to use placebo where treatment options exist.
What about my human rights?
What, do you mean that they let the test subjects out of the cages at the end of the trials? I thought that big pharma were an evil empire performing unethical experimentation on puppies, kittens and homeless people that they picked up off the streets! It's the escape of the mutated creatures from the Wuhan lab that got us into this mess in the first place. I know it's true, they made a movie about it, it's called The Evil Dead. These labs need to be fitted with automatic flamethrowers to stop escapees, and nuclear failsafe devices so that the entire city can be toasted if something should get out!"
The Evil Dead? I think I've seen that documentary. That's the one where the unvaccinated die a slow lingering horrible painful death in the end isn't it?
E |
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"Tests conducted by Pfizer, AZ, Johnson and Johnson (Janssen) and Moderns were started with two groups for comparison...the vaccinated and a control get of the unvaccinated. That is good science.
They have now 'unrandomised' the tests by offering vaccines to the control groups. Moderna reports that 98% of the unvaccinated group have now been vaccinated
I can't for the life of me see how the efficacy or safety of such vaccines can now be honestly assessed. Anyone know?
What, you expect that trial conditions should continue after the end of the trial?
As a trial participant, I consider that would be a violation of my human rights and likely beyond the permitted scope of the Declaration of Helsinki.
I have the right to leave a study at any time, and I'm pretty sure it's unethical to use placebo where treatment options exist.
What about my human rights?
What, do you mean that they let the test subjects out of the cages at the end of the trials? I thought that big pharma were an evil empire performing unethical experimentation on puppies, kittens and homeless people that they picked up off the streets! It's the escape of the mutated creatures from the Wuhan lab that got us into this mess in the first place. I know it's true, they made a movie about it, it's called The Evil Dead. These labs need to be fitted with automatic flamethrowers to stop escapees, and nuclear failsafe devices so that the entire city can be toasted if something should get out!
The Evil Dead? I think I've seen that documentary. That's the one where the unvaccinated die a slow lingering horrible painful death in the end isn't it?
E"
And people want to impose that on those unlucky enough to receive placebo. Some thanks for helping develop a new medications which means we can open up again.  |
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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago
The South |
"Tests conducted by Pfizer, AZ, Johnson and Johnson (Janssen) and Moderns were started with two groups for comparison...the vaccinated and a control get of the unvaccinated. That is good science.
They have now 'unrandomised' the tests by offering vaccines to the control groups. Moderna reports that 98% of the unvaccinated group have now been vaccinated
I can't for the life of me see how the efficacy or safety of such vaccines can now be honestly assessed. Anyone know?
What, you expect that trial conditions should continue after the end of the trial?
As a trial participant, I consider that would be a violation of my human rights and likely beyond the permitted scope of the Declaration of Helsinki.
I have the right to leave a study at any time, and I'm pretty sure it's unethical to use placebo where treatment options exist.
What about my human rights?
What, do you mean that they let the test subjects out of the cages at the end of the trials? I thought that big pharma were an evil empire performing unethical experimentation on puppies, kittens and homeless people that they picked up off the streets! It's the escape of the mutated creatures from the Wuhan lab that got us into this mess in the first place. I know it's true, they made a movie about it, it's called The Evil Dead. These labs need to be fitted with automatic flamethrowers to stop escapees, and nuclear failsafe devices so that the entire city can be toasted if something should get out!
The Evil Dead? I think I've seen that documentary. That's the one where the unvaccinated die a slow lingering horrible painful death in the end isn't it?
E
And people want to impose that on those unlucky enough to receive placebo. Some thanks for helping develop a new medications which means we can open up again. "
Forgive me the possible over simplification...
Trials are over.
Results are in and recorded.
Trial volunteers on the placebo can now be given the vaccine.
How can the now vaccinated placebo volunteers possibly affect the trial, (or the results) if the trial is over and the results have been previously recorded?
E |
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"
The Evil Dead? I think I've seen that documentary. That's the one where the unvaccinated die a slow lingering horrible painful death in the end isn't it?
E"
If it was stated that a side effect of being vaccinated (for males) was that your cocked would get sucked, guaranteed, the uptake would be 100%  |
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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago
The South |
"
The Evil Dead? I think I've seen that documentary. That's the one where the unvaccinated die a slow lingering horrible painful death in the end isn't it?
E
If it was stated that a side effect of being vaccinated (for males) was that your cocked would get sucked, guaranteed, the uptake would be 100% "
M has had the vaccine, so if I suck his cock am I automatically getting the vaccine, albeit a slightly diluted sample?
E |
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"
The Evil Dead? I think I've seen that documentary. That's the one where the unvaccinated die a slow lingering horrible painful death in the end isn't it?
E
If it was stated that a side effect of being vaccinated (for males) was that your cocked would get sucked, guaranteed, the uptake would be 100%
M has had the vaccine, so if I suck his cock am I automatically getting the vaccine, albeit a slightly diluted sample?
E"
Homeopathic vaccine?
Extra powerful? |
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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago
The South |
"
The Evil Dead? I think I've seen that documentary. That's the one where the unvaccinated die a slow lingering horrible painful death in the end isn't it?
E
If it was stated that a side effect of being vaccinated (for males) was that your cocked would get sucked, guaranteed, the uptake would be 100%
M has had the vaccine, so if I suck his cock am I automatically getting the vaccine, albeit a slightly diluted sample?
E
Homeopathic vaccine?
Extra powerful?"
If anyone else needs a "jab" please get in touch.
E |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
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"The British Medical Journal stated:
The BMJ asked Moderna, Pfizer, and Janssen (Johnson and Johnson) what proportion of trial participants were now formally unblinded, and how many originally allocated to placebo have now received a vaccine. Pfizer declined to say, but Moderna announced that 'as of April 13, all placebo participants have been offered the Moderna Covid-19 vaccine and 98% of those have received the vaccine.' In other words, the trial is unblinded, and the placebo group no longer exists. Janssen … confirmed it was implementing an amended protocol across all countries to unblind all participants in its two phase III trials."
Congrats you have answered your question. Phase 1 to 3 trials needed for a drug/vaccine to be assessed whether it can go to market. These trials have finished and the vaccines are now in use. Hence the control group trials have been completed the trials and can have a vaccine. If you come back about the post approval monitoring, which doesn’t need a control group, it will show you have no understanding of the process |
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"Tests conducted by Pfizer, AZ, Johnson and Johnson (Janssen) and Moderns were started with two groups for comparison...the vaccinated and a control get of the unvaccinated. That is good science.
They have now 'unrandomised' the tests by offering vaccines to the control groups. Moderna reports that 98% of the unvaccinated group have now been vaccinated
I can't for the life of me see how the efficacy or safety of such vaccines can now be honestly assessed. Anyone know?
What, you expect that trial conditions should continue after the end of the trial?
As a trial participant, I consider that would be a violation of my human rights and likely beyond the permitted scope of the Declaration of Helsinki.
I have the right to leave a study at any time, and I'm pretty sure it's unethical to use placebo where treatment options exist.
What about my human rights?
What, do you mean that they let the test subjects out of the cages at the end of the trials? I thought that big pharma were an evil empire performing unethical experimentation on puppies, kittens and homeless people that they picked up off the streets! It's the escape of the mutated creatures from the Wuhan lab that got us into this mess in the first place. I know it's true, they made a movie about it, it's called The Evil Dead. These labs need to be fitted with automatic flamethrowers to stop escapees, and nuclear failsafe devices so that the entire city can be toasted if something should get out!
The Evil Dead? I think I've seen that documentary. That's the one where the unvaccinated die a slow lingering horrible painful death in the end isn't it?
E
And people want to impose that on those unlucky enough to receive placebo. Some thanks for helping develop a new medications which means we can open up again.
Forgive me the possible over simplification...
Trials are over.
Results are in and recorded.
Trial volunteers on the placebo can now be given the vaccine.
How can the now vaccinated placebo volunteers possibly affect the trial, (or the results) if the trial is over and the results have been previously recorded?
E"
I've got no goddamn idea.
Thankfully (or not as it were) we've got plenty of people who are not taking the vaccine, and so we can collate data based on people's free choices in order to see efficacy in real time.
I wouldn't want to be in the non-intervention arm, but people are more than welcome to refuse any of the vaccines if they choose. |
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