FabSwingers.com > Forums > Virus > 12-15 year olds jabs
12-15 year olds jabs
Jump to: Newest in thread
Consent forms are going out to parents of school children for the vaccine.
To quote the jvci, “there is only a small advantage for children to receive the vaccine”.
If this is the case, why are the government pushing for these vaccinations? I’m guessing that it is to try and reduce the spread from the young to the older groups.
I’d love to hearyour thoughts, especially parents who are facing this. Would you vaccinate a healthy child? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
gov data say aug2020 360 deaths
gov data say aug2021 3900 deaths
what exaclty is the vaccine doing?
why isn't a single msm journalist addressing this.
#whocommitsgenocide ?
fill the gap history ________ itself
why were 2 million doses of midazolam perscribed in the care homes to elderly suffering with covid its like treating peanut allergy with dry roasted |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"gov data say aug2020 360 deaths
gov data say aug2021 3900 deaths
what exaclty is the vaccine doing?
why isn't a single msm journalist addressing this.
#whocommitsgenocide ?
fill the gap history ________ itself
why were 2 million doses of midazolam perscribed in the care homes to elderly suffering with covid its like treating peanut allergy with dry roasted"
Government link for your figures?
You do realise that the majority of the hospitalisations and deaths are of people who have not had 2 vaccine doses and the 2 weeks lag since the final dose, for immunity to develop? Presumably you understand the efficacy of the vaccines and how they have allowed you to have freedom from restrictions since July in England. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
 |
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"gov data say aug2020 360 deaths
gov data say aug2021 3900 deaths
what exaclty is the vaccine doing?
why isn't a single msm journalist addressing this.
#whocommitsgenocide ?
fill the gap history ________ itself
why were 2 million doses of midazolam perscribed in the care homes to elderly suffering with covid its like treating peanut allergy with dry roasted"
Government Data is actually 2,989 so you are a thousand out. I got that from the Government Website. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2157
From the BMJ last month.
One in 7 kids have symptoms of Long Covid past 15 weeks. Considering the numbers of teenagers unvaccinated- this is going to cause a huge legacy. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2157
From the BMJ last month.
One in 7 kids have symptoms of Long Covid past 15 weeks. Considering the numbers of teenagers unvaccinated- this is going to cause a huge legacy. "
This is what parents will for find confusing. It seems that the bmj and the jvci have opposing views. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"All childhood vaccines are given to healthy children.
It is mostly because of childhood vaccines that we don't have many awful diseases that we did. "
Yes, agree. But the vaccine is to protect the child’s future health. It’s the convoluted advice that I am referring. It’s not the anti vaxxers, but professionals who can’t seem to agree. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2157
From the BMJ last month.
One in 7 kids have symptoms of Long Covid past 15 weeks. Considering the numbers of teenagers unvaccinated- this is going to cause a huge legacy.
This is what parents will for find confusing. It seems that the bmj and the jvci have opposing views. "
Along with the symptoms reported being mostly headaches and tiredness, which teenagers suffer from anyway, so is it covid or puberty changes. Interesting to note this is based on just over 13% of those asked responding, maybe the others didn’t have any long symptoms. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"where the data? have you seen it NO you havnt because i have . and thats incorrect . youre lying to back your argument  "
Well figures from the govt daily update website say..
Deaths Aug 2020 278
Deaths Aug 2021 2998
Now by anyone's measure deaths are 10 times higher (well nearly 11). Not sure how that can be interpreted as a measure of success in any way.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Consent forms are going out to parents of school children for the vaccine.
To quote the jvci, “there is only a small advantage for children to receive the vaccine”.
If this is the case, why are the government pushing for these vaccinations? I’m guessing that it is to try and reduce the spread from the young to the older groups.
I’d love to hearyour thoughts, especially parents who are facing this. Would you vaccinate a healthy child?"
As a parent... of course I’d vaccinate my ‘healthy’ child, the chance of complications is a fraction of the chance of serious illness from covid. My youngest child’s already spent a precautionary 5 days in hospital during the first wave after contracting C-19 and it would be remiss of me to not do everything I can to protect them from a second infection.
When I consider the fact I work in direct contact with C-19 patients and my boy obviously also goes to school then the reality is fairly clear... he is directly connected to the two largest infection groups in the U.K. for his sake, my parents (who help with care), his classmates, teachers and their extended families I think it’s the only responsible choice I have.
I can reassure myself on the way to school every day though... our choice to cross a busy road in order to give him an education carry’s a similar level of risk exposure compared to getting vaccinated when I consider the number the number of times we’ll do that crossing during his school life.
As for why is the government pushing these programmes... isn’t it obvious?
We stand at around 100 deaths a day nationwide, thats on the back of a hugely successful adult vaccination programme. If you compare our current infection rates they exceed our highest peak in this pandemic and they are sustained, there’s no sign of drop off yet. The good news is that peak would be killing 1000+ a day in previous times but we also need to consider we are moving swiftly into flu season and this year we won’t benefit from lockdowns etc that massively reduced its impacts in previous years. For the strain on the health service we need to do more, to reduce the chance of additional variations and perhaps a more deadly strain of the virus we need to reduce its spread as much as we can.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2157
From the BMJ last month.
One in 7 kids have symptoms of Long Covid past 15 weeks. Considering the numbers of teenagers unvaccinated- this is going to cause a huge legacy.
This is what parents will for find confusing. It seems that the bmj and the jvci have opposing views. "
Completely agree, it is very confusing but they are also completely against the international tend of vaccinating 12-18 year olds. Very frustrating indeed  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"where the data? have you seen it NO you havnt because i have . and thats incorrect . youre lying to back your argument
Well figures from the govt daily update website say..
Deaths Aug 2020 278
Deaths Aug 2021 2998
Now by anyone's measure deaths are 10 times higher (well nearly 11). Not sure how that can be interpreted as a measure of success in any way.
"
Why are you comparing dates and not time periods with like for like infection rates?
Surely even the most basic maths brain realises that is how you gauge the success or failure of the vaccination programme? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2157
From the BMJ last month.
One in 7 kids have symptoms of Long Covid past 15 weeks. Considering the numbers of teenagers unvaccinated- this is going to cause a huge legacy.
This is what parents will for find confusing. It seems that the bmj and the jvci have opposing views.
Along with the symptoms reported being mostly headaches and tiredness, which teenagers suffer from anyway, so is it covid or puberty changes. Interesting to note this is based on just over 13% of those asked responding, maybe the others didn’t have any long symptoms. "
This is a very narrow spectrum of clinical symptoms the WHO now defines many more symptoms.
It’s not the symptoms… it’s what in the long run this may lead to
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/doctors-warn-of-possible-rise-of-debilitating-nervous-system-disorder-in-patients-with-long-covid-19-1.5615322
Our health secretary is concerned about the rising number of Long Covid cases more because many people, including children will need long term treatment
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2157
From the BMJ last month.
One in 7 kids have symptoms of Long Covid past 15 weeks. Considering the numbers of teenagers unvaccinated- this is going to cause a huge legacy.
This is what parents will for find confusing. It seems that the bmj and the jvci have opposing views.
Along with the symptoms reported being mostly headaches and tiredness, which teenagers suffer from anyway, so is it covid or puberty changes. Interesting to note this is based on just over 13% of those asked responding, maybe the others didn’t have any long symptoms.
This is a very narrow spectrum of clinical symptoms the WHO now defines many more symptoms.
It’s not the symptoms… it’s what in the long run this may lead to
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/doctors-warn-of-possible-rise-of-debilitating-nervous-system-disorder-in-patients-with-long-covid-19-1.5615322
Our health secretary is concerned about the rising number of Long Covid cases more because many people, including children will need long term treatment
"
It is but it is what was highlighted in the report posted. So much misinformation out there it is hard for the adults to have an appropriate discussion with their child and make a decision. Each family will make their own choice based on their circumstances. We’ve got a couple of months to think about it still and see what other information appears in the meantime. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Ever noticed how the same people who say "covid isn't even a problem because 99% survive" are the same people who say "the vaccine is dangerous because 1% of people have negative side effects".
Funny that. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
It's up to the child, really.
Also, the reason it has been rolled out to this age group is not for the protection on the child, but those they come into contact with. How many times does this have to be said before people take notice? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"where the data? have you seen it NO you havnt because i have . and thats incorrect . youre lying to back your argument
Well figures from the govt daily update website say..
Deaths Aug 2020 278
Deaths Aug 2021 2998
Now by anyone's measure deaths are 10 times higher (well nearly 11). Not sure how that can be interpreted as a measure of success in any way.
Why are you comparing dates and not time periods with like for like infection rates?
Surely even the most basic maths brain realises that is how you gauge the success or failure of the vaccination programme? "
Well that's how you choose to measure it.
I think it's reasonable to compare any time period and that after a year of a "successful" vaccination effort and reasonably expect that after a year of effort and 90million doses that numbers would be lower now. Than when they started. Sometimes people get too caught up in the prevailing narrative and lose sight of the fact that over a year into our marvel we are still losing 3k a month people to this. There are those who wish to just crack on because we are jabbed and safe. And we can't live in fear but it's reasonable to be mindful and do what we can to stop infecting others. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's up to the child, really.
Also, the reason it has been rolled out to this age group is not for the protection on the child, but those they come into contact with. How many times does this have to be said before people take notice? "
We live in a culture of "me me me" you cannot make people do things only for others without utter confusion. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"where the data? have you seen it NO you havnt because i have . and thats incorrect . youre lying to back your argument
Well figures from the govt daily update website say..
Deaths Aug 2020 278
Deaths Aug 2021 2998
Now by anyone's measure deaths are 10 times higher (well nearly 11). Not sure how that can be interpreted as a measure of success in any way.
Why are you comparing dates and not time periods with like for like infection rates?
Surely even the most basic maths brain realises that is how you gauge the success or failure of the vaccination programme?
Well that's how you choose to measure it.
I think it's reasonable to compare any time period and that after a year of a "successful" vaccination effort and reasonably expect that after a year of effort and 90million doses that numbers would be lower now. Than when they started. Sometimes people get too caught up in the prevailing narrative and lose sight of the fact that over a year into our marvel we are still losing 3k a month people to this. There are those who wish to just crack on because we are jabbed and safe. And we can't live in fear but it's reasonable to be mindful and do what we can to stop infecting others. "
No I choose to measure it in the ways that affect my work. I look at the difference in patient admissions, the small percentage on covid related cat-1 calls compared to earlier this year. I look at the numbers only requiring the most basic of oxygen therapy compared to previous figures for ventilation or CPAP. I look at the average time for discharge and the reduction of those requiring oxygen to go home with.
You reference 3,000 deaths a month but you don’t reference the fact that total would be achieved in 2.5 days at periods that have the same infection rate. And as you correctly point out... that comparison also needs to reflect the fact we are now in an open society compared to a full lockdown.
I’m genuinely curious... how in your mind can that positive change in fortunes not be considered successful? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It's up to the child, really.
Also, the reason it has been rolled out to this age group is not for the protection on the child, but those they come into contact with. How many times does this have to be said before people take notice?
We live in a culture of "me me me" you cannot make people do things only for others without utter confusion."
The rubella vaccine has no benefit for me. I don't have kids, I don't plan to have kids, and it's only really a risk to pregnant people and their babies.
If I was told (by a reliable source) that me taking a rubella only vaccine now would benefit parents and babies I'd never meet?
Here's my arm. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's up to the child, really.
Also, the reason it has been rolled out to this age group is not for the protection on the child, but those they come into contact with. How many times does this have to be said before people take notice?
We live in a culture of "me me me" you cannot make people do things only for others without utter confusion."
You’re correct. I’m very selfish. My sole concern is that of the safety of MY children. Not strangers. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Both my children are in that age group and both will be having their covid vaccination. We've discussed it and the decision was ultimately theirs to make. I'm glad they came to the decision they did |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's up to the child, really.
Also, the reason it has been rolled out to this age group is not for the protection on the child, but those they come into contact with. How many times does this have to be said before people take notice?
We live in a culture of "me me me" you cannot make people do things only for others without utter confusion.
You’re correct. I’m very selfish. My sole concern is that of the safety of MY children. Not strangers."
You’ve talked in the past on these forums both about your own personal refusal to vaccinate and also your love of dermal fillers and cosmetic procedure.
Personally, I find it quite bizarre in terms of medical risk one is able to justify a vastly greater risk in the name of temporary beauty compared to the lesser risk related to safeguarding personal and indeed public long term health.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"You’re correct. I’m very selfish. My sole concern is that of the safety of MY children. Not strangers."
Exactly! The perfect example of the short sightedness I'm trying to highlight, because if everybody thought like that, we'd be screwed.
Maybe this is just natural selection at play? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ever noticed how the same people who say "covid isn't even a problem because 99% survive" are the same people who say "the vaccine is dangerous because 1% of people have negative side effects".
Funny that. "
Indeed. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Ever noticed how the same people who say "covid isn't even a problem because 99% survive" are the same people who say "the vaccine is dangerous because 1% of people have negative side effects".
Funny that.
Indeed. "
There's an interesting article on our understanding of risk in this sphere - can't link, not permitted on Fab. Science Based Medicine, 8 October 2021 - The Trolley Problem and Vaccinating Young People Against Covid-19 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ever noticed how the same people who say "covid isn't even a problem because 99% survive" are the same people who say "the vaccine is dangerous because 1% of people have negative side effects".
Funny that.
Indeed.
There's an interesting article on our understanding of risk in this sphere - can't link, not permitted on Fab. Science Based Medicine, 8 October 2021 - The Trolley Problem and Vaccinating Young People Against Covid-19"
Cheers mate, I'll have a look |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"You’re correct. I’m very selfish. My sole concern is that of the safety of MY children. Not strangers.
Exactly! The perfect example of the short sightedness I'm trying to highlight, because if everybody thought like that, we'd be screwed.
Maybe this is just natural selection at play?"
I've said it numerous times on the forum but as a society we really are a selfish bunch of twats and it's sad to see. Where the fuck has community spirit and caring about fellow man/womankind gone?
If we all took an unvaccinated stance (adults & kids) then we'd have absolute carnage on our hands and way more than the 140,000 deaths currently. Ironically, those looking after #1 would be far more likely to be affected. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's up to the child, really.
Also, the reason it has been rolled out to this age group is not for the protection on the child, but those they come into contact with. How many times does this have to be said before people take notice?
We live in a culture of "me me me" you cannot make people do things only for others without utter confusion.
You’re correct. I’m very selfish. My sole concern is that of the safety of MY children. Not strangers.
You’ve talked in the past on these forums both about your own personal refusal to vaccinate and also your love of dermal fillers and cosmetic procedure.
Personally, I find it quite bizarre in terms of medical risk one is able to justify a vastly greater risk in the name of temporary beauty compared to the lesser risk related to safeguarding personal and indeed public long term health.
"
Yep. Quite right. I choose to have lots of cosmetic procedures done and I choose not to be vaccinated or have my children vacccibwted against vivid. That’s the fabulous thing about living in the uk - choice  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I've said it numerous times on the forum but as a society we really are a selfish bunch of twats and it's sad to see. Where the fuck has community spirit and caring about fellow man/womankind gone?
If we all took an unvaccinated stance (adults & kids) then we'd have absolute carnage on our hands and way more than the 140,000 deaths currently. Ironically, those looking after #1 would be far more likely to be affected."
Mate, look at the fuel problems recently?
Perfect example of how stupid and selfish as a majority we are. Utter morons.
People who don't even really go anywhere, out filling anything they can find with petrol because the mere thought of not having is terrifying.
No thoughts for those that NEED fuel, not thought of community. People fighting at petrol stations.
Good old British community spirit is almost dead isn't it?
When I grew up (in Salford funnily enough) there was a sense of community, people did for each other. My grandparents generation looked out for each other more than now.
The slow privatisation of the NHS is an example of this imo, people don't care because it doesn't impact them.
Social security nets are disappearing and people don't care because it's not them it impacts, and those using those safety nets are "lazy and have iPhones".
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I've said it numerous times on the forum but as a society we really are a selfish bunch of twats and it's sad to see. Where the fuck has community spirit and caring about fellow man/womankind gone?
If we all took an unvaccinated stance (adults & kids) then we'd have absolute carnage on our hands and way more than the 140,000 deaths currently. Ironically, those looking after #1 would be far more likely to be affected.
Mate, look at the fuel problems recently?
Perfect example of how stupid and selfish as a majority we are. Utter morons.
People who don't even really go anywhere, out filling anything they can find with petrol because the mere thought of not having is terrifying.
No thoughts for those that NEED fuel, not thought of community. People fighting at petrol stations.
Good old British community spirit is almost dead isn't it?
When I grew up (in Salford funnily enough) there was a sense of community, people did for each other. My grandparents generation looked out for each other more than now.
The slow privatisation of the NHS is an example of this imo, people don't care because it doesn't impact them.
Social security nets are disappearing and people don't care because it's not them it impacts, and those using those safety nets are "lazy and have iPhones".
"
Maybe time for you to go and live on your own little island without all of the selfish people around you hahaha |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Vaccinations appear to have come to a near grinding halt according to the day figures, yet there are still approximately 20% of the population who are eligible who’ve not taken it up. And we wonder why we’ve got the highest Covid rates in Europe by a country mile.
Why are we still having this conversation???? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"where the data? have you seen it NO you havnt because i have . and thats incorrect . youre lying to back your argument
Well figures from the govt daily update website say..
Deaths Aug 2020 278
Deaths Aug 2021 2998
Now by anyone's measure deaths are 10 times higher (well nearly 11). Not sure how that can be interpreted as a measure of success in any way.
Why are you comparing dates and not time periods with like for like infection rates?
Surely even the most basic maths brain realises that is how you gauge the success or failure of the vaccination programme?
Well that's how you choose to measure it.
I think it's reasonable to compare any time period and that after a year of a "successful" vaccination effort and reasonably expect that after a year of effort and 90million doses that numbers would be lower now. Than when they started. Sometimes people get too caught up in the prevailing narrative and lose sight of the fact that over a year into our marvel we are still losing 3k a month people to this. There are those who wish to just crack on because we are jabbed and safe. And we can't live in fear but it's reasonable to be mindful and do what we can to stop infecting others. "
I’m afraid that comparing like for like monthly time periods is not scientific at all. Aug 2020 and the initial variant had blown through the country and cases were mostly below 1000 cases per day. Go to Aug 2021 and cases are consistently above 30,000 per day due to the delta variant. It’s obvious you cannot compare those months. Compare Jan 2021 with Aug 2021 to have approx comparable daily cases. Deaths in Jan 2021 were consistently above 1000 daily deaths compared to between 100 and 150 daily for Aug 2021. The vaccines are working. I haven’t even compared vaccinated vs unvaccinated in those figures either. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Maybe time for you to go and live on your own little island without all of the selfish people around you hahaha "
Don't need to go anywhere, these people are getting rid of themselves and their own families. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Maybe time for you to go and live on your own little island without all of the selfish people around you hahaha
Don't need to go anywhere, these people are getting rid of themselves and their own families."
Brill. Good stuff |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
If all adults followed the science and did their part (get the vaccine, use masks and being in general socially responsible) maybe we would not have to vaccinate healthy children.
But at least in the UK (and other western european countries) the majority of adults get vaccinated. Obviously there will be adult people who do not get vaccinated (without having a good reason) and benefit from the effort of the others. It happens.
In the same way, the majority of the people are working while there are people who (without having a good reason) are on benefits and essentially benefit from the effort of the others.
It is a reality that we need to accept. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yep. Quite right. I choose to have lots of cosmetic procedures done and I choose not to be vaccinated or have my children vacccibwted against vivid. That’s the fabulous thing about living in the uk - choice "
Thankfully you’re in a tiny minority, especially amongst scousers.
Needless to say if and when your need urgent care due to necrosis caused by fillers, or one of your kids battles with long covid, or perhaps a relative fights for their life after being infected through yourselves... myself or my colleagues would treat you without hesitation, lord knows someone has to make up for the deficit that your outlook creates. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
My daughters consent forms got sent out a few weeks ago and I was weighing up my options (I had my vaccine almost as soon as my age grouo was called up but I'm not sure on exactly how much benifits a young healthy 13 yr old will get from the jab) while I was thinking about it I timed out (not a big deal because I can take her to a walk in center if and when I decide that's what we want to do) while all the other kids with consent forms when off to go get there vaccines the kids who hadn't got there forms in all got taken to a room where a teacher reprimanded them for being selfish and lazy for not doing there bit which I thought was discraceful tbh |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"My daughters consent forms got sent out a few weeks ago and I was weighing up my options (I had my vaccine almost as soon as my age grouo was called up but I'm not sure on exactly how much benifits a young healthy 13 yr old will get from the jab) while I was thinking about it I timed out (not a big deal because I can take her to a walk in center if and when I decide that's what we want to do) while all the other kids with consent forms when off to go get there vaccines the kids who hadn't got there forms in all got taken to a room where a teacher reprimanded them for being selfish and lazy for not doing there bit which I thought was discraceful tbh"
I can’t see any school doing that tbh. If it did then I can only guess it’s a one off school who are about to grace the front pages of the national press pretty shortly. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Our daughter's school only sent the forms out last Friday. We can't understand why it took them so long, although it may be that they spent a long time writing the accompanying letter in such a way as to try and appease the anti-vaxxers.
It is our daughter's choice as to whether to get vaccinated, although by the time the school get round to it she may be 16 anyway so able to book a normal vaccination centre appointment.
By delaying so long the school / health board have let covid get a grip again as there are quite a few cases in each of her classes. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"
I’m genuinely curious... how in your mind can that positive change in fortunes not be considered successful? "
I wouldn't say around 3000 deaths a month is a positive thing. People are still dying.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Maybe time for you to go and live on your own little island without all of the selfish people around you hahaha
Don't need to go anywhere, these people are getting rid of themselves and their own families."
 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Our daughter's school only sent the forms out last Friday. We can't understand why it took them so long, although it may be that they spent a long time writing the accompanying letter in such a way as to try and appease the anti-vaxxers.
It is our daughter's choice as to whether to get vaccinated, although by the time the school get round to it she may be 16 anyway so able to book a normal vaccination centre appointment.
By delaying so long the school / health board have let covid get a grip again as there are quite a few cases in each of her classes."
We’ve not had anything as yet, only just got the flu consent form which is taking place end of November, so we’ve got a while to wait yet |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I’m genuinely curious... how in your mind can that positive change in fortunes not be considered successful?
I wouldn't say around 3000 deaths a month is a positive thing. People are still dying.
"
I’m well aware, I deal with a number of them on a daily basis. Death is sadly a part of life, we can’t get away from that, there is no zero figure utopia.
In terms of covid-19 though, 100 deaths a day compared to 1000 is a huge difference, add to that the positive impact the end of lockdown has on other crucial areas such as oncology, mental health etc which have also suffered horrible increases in fatality rates over this time and it should be looked at as a massive positive.
That’s not celebrating 100 deaths, that’s celebrating over 900+ fatalities that are being avoided. Make no mistake, that’s what the c-19 vaccination programme has given us every day for the last month and I think it’s foolish to not celebrate that. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2157
From the BMJ last month.
One in 7 kids have symptoms of Long Covid past 15 weeks. Considering the numbers of teenagers unvaccinated- this is going to cause a huge legacy. "
I haven’t followed link so sorry if I have this wrong but shouldn’t that read...
“One in 7 kids WHO HAVE HAD COVID have symptoms of long covid past 15 weeks”?
That is VERY different to 1 in 7 kids in terms of absolute numbers.
As I say, not read it so might be wrong, but it really matters to quote numbers in context. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"
I’m genuinely curious... how in your mind can that positive change in fortunes not be considered successful?
I wouldn't say around 3000 deaths a month is a positive thing. People are still dying.
I’m well aware, I deal with a number of them on a daily basis. Death is sadly a part of life, we can’t get away from that, there is no zero figure utopia.
In terms of covid-19 though, 100 deaths a day compared to 1000 is a huge difference, add to that the positive impact the end of lockdown has on other crucial areas such as oncology, mental health etc which have also suffered horrible increases in fatality rates over this time and it should be looked at as a massive positive.
That’s not celebrating 100 deaths, that’s celebrating over 900+ fatalities that are being avoided. Make no mistake, that’s what the c-19 vaccination programme has given us every day for the last month and I think it’s foolish to not celebrate that."
We know you say you deal with it, it is mentioned a lot
You can celebrate the vaccine working well without saying the deaths now are collateral damage. I can't celebrate deaths sorry.
If only there was something we could have done to limit those deaths a bit further, like keeping mitigations going for a bit longer |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Consent forms are going out to parents of school children for the vaccine.
To quote the jvci, “there is only a small advantage for children to receive the vaccine”.
If this is the case, why are the government pushing for these vaccinations? I’m guessing that it is to try and reduce the spread from the young to the older groups.
I’d love to hearyour thoughts, especially parents who are facing this. Would you vaccinate a healthy child?"
Yeh because even a small additional help is better than nothing. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"where the data? have you seen it NO you havnt because i have . and thats incorrect . youre lying to back your argument
Well figures from the govt daily update website say..
Deaths Aug 2020 278
Deaths Aug 2021 2998
Now by anyone's measure deaths are 10 times higher (well nearly 11). Not sure how that can be interpreted as a measure of success in any way.
Why are you comparing dates and not time periods with like for like infection rates?
Surely even the most basic maths brain realises that is how you gauge the success or failure of the vaccination programme?
Well that's how you choose to measure it.
I think it's reasonable to compare any time period and that after a year of a "successful" vaccination effort and reasonably expect that after a year of effort and 90million doses that numbers would be lower now. Than when they started. Sometimes people get too caught up in the prevailing narrative and lose sight of the fact that over a year into our marvel we are still losing 3k a month people to this. There are those who wish to just crack on because we are jabbed and safe. And we can't live in fear but it's reasonable to be mindful and do what we can to stop infecting others.
I’m afraid that comparing like for like monthly time periods is not scientific at all. Aug 2020 and the initial variant had blown through the country and cases were mostly below 1000 cases per day. Go to Aug 2021 and cases are consistently above 30,000 per day due to the delta variant. It’s obvious you cannot compare those months. Compare Jan 2021 with Aug 2021 to have approx comparable daily cases. Deaths in Jan 2021 were consistently above 1000 daily deaths compared to between 100 and 150 daily for Aug 2021. The vaccines are working. I haven’t even compared vaccinated vs unvaccinated in those figures either."
The numbers are the numbers. They dont lie. If you choose to ignore that's fine. If you pause for even one second and think hangon, how is it that the numbers are higher now than before...? Not suggesting that vaccines are bad or not working for some people. Personally I suspect the bigger issue is a behavioural one but there is no information about that. The policy is to infect as many as possible before winter. After over 18 months of it we seem to have been indoctrinated to think 3000 deaths a month is something to label a success. I don't. That's my opinion. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"where the data? have you seen it NO you havnt because i have . and thats incorrect . youre lying to back your argument
Well figures from the govt daily update website say..
Deaths Aug 2020 278
Deaths Aug 2021 2998
Now by anyone's measure deaths are 10 times higher (well nearly 11). Not sure how that can be interpreted as a measure of success in any way.
Why are you comparing dates and not time periods with like for like infection rates?
Surely even the most basic maths brain realises that is how you gauge the success or failure of the vaccination programme?
Well that's how you choose to measure it.
I think it's reasonable to compare any time period and that after a year of a "successful" vaccination effort and reasonably expect that after a year of effort and 90million doses that numbers would be lower now. Than when they started. Sometimes people get too caught up in the prevailing narrative and lose sight of the fact that over a year into our marvel we are still losing 3k a month people to this. There are those who wish to just crack on because we are jabbed and safe. And we can't live in fear but it's reasonable to be mindful and do what we can to stop infecting others.
I’m afraid that comparing like for like monthly time periods is not scientific at all. Aug 2020 and the initial variant had blown through the country and cases were mostly below 1000 cases per day. Go to Aug 2021 and cases are consistently above 30,000 per day due to the delta variant. It’s obvious you cannot compare those months. Compare Jan 2021 with Aug 2021 to have approx comparable daily cases. Deaths in Jan 2021 were consistently above 1000 daily deaths compared to between 100 and 150 daily for Aug 2021. The vaccines are working. I haven’t even compared vaccinated vs unvaccinated in those figures either."
Please explain to me how the delta variant is detected and also how it can be shown to be the delta variant opposed to the previous strain. Cheers |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ohnj21Man
over a year ago
Leeds |
"where the data? have you seen it NO you havnt because i have . and thats incorrect . youre lying to back your argument
Well figures from the govt daily update website say..
Deaths Aug 2020 278
Deaths Aug 2021 2998
Now by anyone's measure deaths are 10 times higher (well nearly 11). Not sure how that can be interpreted as a measure of success in any way.
Why are you comparing dates and not time periods with like for like infection rates?
Surely even the most basic maths brain realises that is how you gauge the success or failure of the vaccination programme?
Well that's how you choose to measure it.
I think it's reasonable to compare any time period and that after a year of a "successful" vaccination effort and reasonably expect that after a year of effort and 90million doses that numbers would be lower now. Than when they started. Sometimes people get too caught up in the prevailing narrative and lose sight of the fact that over a year into our marvel we are still losing 3k a month people to this. There are those who wish to just crack on because we are jabbed and safe. And we can't live in fear but it's reasonable to be mindful and do what we can to stop infecting others.
I’m afraid that comparing like for like monthly time periods is not scientific at all. Aug 2020 and the initial variant had blown through the country and cases were mostly below 1000 cases per day. Go to Aug 2021 and cases are consistently above 30,000 per day due to the delta variant. It’s obvious you cannot compare those months. Compare Jan 2021 with Aug 2021 to have approx comparable daily cases. Deaths in Jan 2021 were consistently above 1000 daily deaths compared to between 100 and 150 daily for Aug 2021. The vaccines are working. I haven’t even compared vaccinated vs unvaccinated in those figures either.
The numbers are the numbers. They dont lie. If you choose to ignore that's fine. If you pause for even one second and think hangon, how is it that the numbers are higher now than before...? Not suggesting that vaccines are bad or not working for some people. Personally I suspect the bigger issue is a behavioural one but there is no information about that. The policy is to infect as many as possible before winter. After over 18 months of it we seem to have been indoctrinated to think 3000 deaths a month is something to label a success. I don't. That's my opinion. "
My question is how come other countries getting 3 k deaths a month.
Why we so far behind other countries |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"We know you say you deal with it, it is mentioned a lot
You can celebrate the vaccine working well without saying the deaths now are collateral damage. I can't celebrate deaths sorry.
If only there was something we could have done to limit those deaths a bit further, like keeping mitigations going for a bit longer"
There’s no celebrating deaths so please don’t twist the statement, as I very clearly said 900 lives unaffected every day is however a wonderful outcome.
Your viewpoint is fairly idealistic to be honest. C-19 has a horrific impact on physical, mental and economic health beyond patients with breathing difficulties. I am confident that opening up of society needed to happen fairly desperately and the timing in which it has occurred has saved more lives than it has cost.
I can only quote for Manchester but by the end of lockdown the deaths from missed cancer screenings or other early diagnosis dependent illnesses, suicides etc far exceeded the current daily C-19 toll within the region.
How exactly do you believe more lives could be saved?
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ohnj21Man
over a year ago
Leeds |
"
I’m genuinely curious... how in your mind can that positive change in fortunes not be considered successful?
I wouldn't say around 3000 deaths a month is a positive thing. People are still dying.
I’m well aware, I deal with a number of them on a daily basis. Death is sadly a part of life, we can’t get away from that, there is no zero figure utopia.
In terms of covid-19 though, 100 deaths a day compared to 1000 is a huge difference, add to that the positive impact the end of lockdown has on other crucial areas such as oncology, mental health etc which have also suffered horrible increases in fatality rates over this time and it should be looked at as a massive positive.
That’s not celebrating 100 deaths, that’s celebrating over 900+ fatalities that are being avoided. Make no mistake, that’s what the c-19 vaccination programme has given us every day for the last month and I think it’s foolish to not celebrate that."
How can we be happy that we have higher deaths figures than nearly every country in the world why should accept high deaths. Why is is it so bad |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"where the data? have you seen it NO you havnt because i have . and thats incorrect . youre lying to back your argument
Well figures from the govt daily update website say..
Deaths Aug 2020 278
Deaths Aug 2021 2998
Now by anyone's measure deaths are 10 times higher (well nearly 11). Not sure how that can be interpreted as a measure of success in any way.
Why are you comparing dates and not time periods with like for like infection rates?
Surely even the most basic maths brain realises that is how you gauge the success or failure of the vaccination programme?
Well that's how you choose to measure it.
I think it's reasonable to compare any time period and that after a year of a "successful" vaccination effort and reasonably expect that after a year of effort and 90million doses that numbers would be lower now. Than when they started. Sometimes people get too caught up in the prevailing narrative and lose sight of the fact that over a year into our marvel we are still losing 3k a month people to this. There are those who wish to just crack on because we are jabbed and safe. And we can't live in fear but it's reasonable to be mindful and do what we can to stop infecting others.
I’m afraid that comparing like for like monthly time periods is not scientific at all. Aug 2020 and the initial variant had blown through the country and cases were mostly below 1000 cases per day. Go to Aug 2021 and cases are consistently above 30,000 per day due to the delta variant. It’s obvious you cannot compare those months. Compare Jan 2021 with Aug 2021 to have approx comparable daily cases. Deaths in Jan 2021 were consistently above 1000 daily deaths compared to between 100 and 150 daily for Aug 2021. The vaccines are working. I haven’t even compared vaccinated vs unvaccinated in those figures either.
The numbers are the numbers. They dont lie. If you choose to ignore that's fine. If you pause for even one second and think hangon, how is it that the numbers are higher now than before...? Not suggesting that vaccines are bad or not working for some people. Personally I suspect the bigger issue is a behavioural one but there is no information about that. The policy is to infect as many as possible before winter. After over 18 months of it we seem to have been indoctrinated to think 3000 deaths a month is something to label a success. I don't. That's my opinion. "
Yep and you are allowed your opinion. From your replies I can deduce that it’s not a scientific one |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"where the data? have you seen it NO you havnt because i have . and thats incorrect . youre lying to back your argument
Well figures from the govt daily update website say..
Deaths Aug 2020 278
Deaths Aug 2021 2998
Now by anyone's measure deaths are 10 times higher (well nearly 11). Not sure how that can be interpreted as a measure of success in any way.
Why are you comparing dates and not time periods with like for like infection rates?
Surely even the most basic maths brain realises that is how you gauge the success or failure of the vaccination programme?
Well that's how you choose to measure it.
I think it's reasonable to compare any time period and that after a year of a "successful" vaccination effort and reasonably expect that after a year of effort and 90million doses that numbers would be lower now. Than when they started. Sometimes people get too caught up in the prevailing narrative and lose sight of the fact that over a year into our marvel we are still losing 3k a month people to this. There are those who wish to just crack on because we are jabbed and safe. And we can't live in fear but it's reasonable to be mindful and do what we can to stop infecting others.
I’m afraid that comparing like for like monthly time periods is not scientific at all. Aug 2020 and the initial variant had blown through the country and cases were mostly below 1000 cases per day. Go to Aug 2021 and cases are consistently above 30,000 per day due to the delta variant. It’s obvious you cannot compare those months. Compare Jan 2021 with Aug 2021 to have approx comparable daily cases. Deaths in Jan 2021 were consistently above 1000 daily deaths compared to between 100 and 150 daily for Aug 2021. The vaccines are working. I haven’t even compared vaccinated vs unvaccinated in those figures either.
The numbers are the numbers. They dont lie. If you choose to ignore that's fine. If you pause for even one second and think hangon, how is it that the numbers are higher now than before...? Not suggesting that vaccines are bad or not working for some people. Personally I suspect the bigger issue is a behavioural one but there is no information about that. The policy is to infect as many as possible before winter. After over 18 months of it we seem to have been indoctrinated to think 3000 deaths a month is something to label a success. I don't. That's my opinion. "
You do realise that covid-19 infection surges are not date related, no? This virus does not work to a repeated annual schedule.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"where the data? have you seen it NO you havnt because i have . and thats incorrect . youre lying to back your argument
Well figures from the govt daily update website say..
Deaths Aug 2020 278
Deaths Aug 2021 2998
Now by anyone's measure deaths are 10 times higher (well nearly 11). Not sure how that can be interpreted as a measure of success in any way.
Why are you comparing dates and not time periods with like for like infection rates?
Surely even the most basic maths brain realises that is how you gauge the success or failure of the vaccination programme?
Well that's how you choose to measure it.
I think it's reasonable to compare any time period and that after a year of a "successful" vaccination effort and reasonably expect that after a year of effort and 90million doses that numbers would be lower now. Than when they started. Sometimes people get too caught up in the prevailing narrative and lose sight of the fact that over a year into our marvel we are still losing 3k a month people to this. There are those who wish to just crack on because we are jabbed and safe. And we can't live in fear but it's reasonable to be mindful and do what we can to stop infecting others.
I’m afraid that comparing like for like monthly time periods is not scientific at all. Aug 2020 and the initial variant had blown through the country and cases were mostly below 1000 cases per day. Go to Aug 2021 and cases are consistently above 30,000 per day due to the delta variant. It’s obvious you cannot compare those months. Compare Jan 2021 with Aug 2021 to have approx comparable daily cases. Deaths in Jan 2021 were consistently above 1000 daily deaths compared to between 100 and 150 daily for Aug 2021. The vaccines are working. I haven’t even compared vaccinated vs unvaccinated in those figures either.
Please explain to me how the delta variant is detected and also how it can be shown to be the delta variant opposed to the previous strain. Cheers"
From a quick look on the Internet;
In the seven days prior to 15 September 2021, there had been 64,579 new Delta cases reported. The strain with the second most occurrences in the same time period is the Alpha variant, of which there have been 126 new cases.
With regards to how they detect which variant, please google;
Methods for the detection and identification of SARS-CoV-2 variants |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"My daughters consent forms got sent out a few weeks ago and I was weighing up my options (I had my vaccine almost as soon as my age grouo was called up but I'm not sure on exactly how much benifits a young healthy 13 yr old will get from the jab) while I was thinking about it I timed out (not a big deal because I can take her to a walk in center if and when I decide that's what we want to do) while all the other kids with consent forms when off to go get there vaccines the kids who hadn't got there forms in all got taken to a room where a teacher reprimanded them for being selfish and lazy for not doing there bit which I thought was discraceful tbh"
I'm sorry but Do you have any proof that that happened because I am exceptionally doubtful. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I’m genuinely curious... how in your mind can that positive change in fortunes not be considered successful?
I wouldn't say around 3000 deaths a month is a positive thing. People are still dying.
"
It most certainly isn't positive but we have no way of knowing how big that number would be if there hadn't been a huge percentage of vaccinated people. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"where the data? have you seen it NO you havnt because i have . and thats incorrect . youre lying to back your argument
Well figures from the govt daily update website say..
Deaths Aug 2020 278
Deaths Aug 2021 2998
Now by anyone's measure deaths are 10 times higher (well nearly 11). Not sure how that can be interpreted as a measure of success in any way.
Why are you comparing dates and not time periods with like for like infection rates?
Surely even the most basic maths brain realises that is how you gauge the success or failure of the vaccination programme?
Well that's how you choose to measure it.
I think it's reasonable to compare any time period and that after a year of a "successful" vaccination effort and reasonably expect that after a year of effort and 90million doses that numbers would be lower now. Than when they started. Sometimes people get too caught up in the prevailing narrative and lose sight of the fact that over a year into our marvel we are still losing 3k a month people to this. There are those who wish to just crack on because we are jabbed and safe. And we can't live in fear but it's reasonable to be mindful and do what we can to stop infecting others.
I’m afraid that comparing like for like monthly time periods is not scientific at all. Aug 2020 and the initial variant had blown through the country and cases were mostly below 1000 cases per day. Go to Aug 2021 and cases are consistently above 30,000 per day due to the delta variant. It’s obvious you cannot compare those months. Compare Jan 2021 with Aug 2021 to have approx comparable daily cases. Deaths in Jan 2021 were consistently above 1000 daily deaths compared to between 100 and 150 daily for Aug 2021. The vaccines are working. I haven’t even compared vaccinated vs unvaccinated in those figures either.
The numbers are the numbers. They dont lie. If you choose to ignore that's fine. If you pause for even one second and think hangon, how is it that the numbers are higher now than before...? Not suggesting that vaccines are bad or not working for some people. Personally I suspect the bigger issue is a behavioural one but there is no information about that. The policy is to infect as many as possible before winter. After over 18 months of it we seem to have been indoctrinated to think 3000 deaths a month is something to label a success. I don't. That's my opinion.
Yep and you are allowed your opinion. From your replies I can deduce that it’s not a scientific one"
Deduce as you must.
It's based on numbers that are available.
Why does it need to be a scientific one? Who made scientists the gods of all things? Are you of the opinion that all scientists are "right" and all have the same opinion? Or just the ones that you agree with? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"where the data? have you seen it NO you havnt because i have . and thats incorrect . youre lying to back your argument
Well figures from the govt daily update website say..
Deaths Aug 2020 278
Deaths Aug 2021 2998
Now by anyone's measure deaths are 10 times higher (well nearly 11). Not sure how that can be interpreted as a measure of success in any way.
Why are you comparing dates and not time periods with like for like infection rates?
Surely even the most basic maths brain realises that is how you gauge the success or failure of the vaccination programme?
Well that's how you choose to measure it.
I think it's reasonable to compare any time period and that after a year of a "successful" vaccination effort and reasonably expect that after a year of effort and 90million doses that numbers would be lower now. Than when they started. Sometimes people get too caught up in the prevailing narrative and lose sight of the fact that over a year into our marvel we are still losing 3k a month people to this. There are those who wish to just crack on because we are jabbed and safe. And we can't live in fear but it's reasonable to be mindful and do what we can to stop infecting others.
I’m afraid that comparing like for like monthly time periods is not scientific at all. Aug 2020 and the initial variant had blown through the country and cases were mostly below 1000 cases per day. Go to Aug 2021 and cases are consistently above 30,000 per day due to the delta variant. It’s obvious you cannot compare those months. Compare Jan 2021 with Aug 2021 to have approx comparable daily cases. Deaths in Jan 2021 were consistently above 1000 daily deaths compared to between 100 and 150 daily for Aug 2021. The vaccines are working. I haven’t even compared vaccinated vs unvaccinated in those figures either.
The numbers are the numbers. They dont lie. If you choose to ignore that's fine. If you pause for even one second and think hangon, how is it that the numbers are higher now than before...? Not suggesting that vaccines are bad or not working for some people. Personally I suspect the bigger issue is a behavioural one but there is no information about that. The policy is to infect as many as possible before winter. After over 18 months of it we seem to have been indoctrinated to think 3000 deaths a month is something to label a success. I don't. That's my opinion.
You do realise that covid-19 infection surges are not date related, no? This virus does not work to a repeated annual schedule.
"
Yes I do realise that. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"where the data? have you seen it NO you havnt because i have . and thats incorrect . youre lying to back your argument
Well figures from the govt daily update website say..
Deaths Aug 2020 278
Deaths Aug 2021 2998
Now by anyone's measure deaths are 10 times higher (well nearly 11). Not sure how that can be interpreted as a measure of success in any way.
Why are you comparing dates and not time periods with like for like infection rates?
Surely even the most basic maths brain realises that is how you gauge the success or failure of the vaccination programme?
Well that's how you choose to measure it.
I think it's reasonable to compare any time period and that after a year of a "successful" vaccination effort and reasonably expect that after a year of effort and 90million doses that numbers would be lower now. Than when they started. Sometimes people get too caught up in the prevailing narrative and lose sight of the fact that over a year into our marvel we are still losing 3k a month people to this. There are those who wish to just crack on because we are jabbed and safe. And we can't live in fear but it's reasonable to be mindful and do what we can to stop infecting others.
I’m afraid that comparing like for like monthly time periods is not scientific at all. Aug 2020 and the initial variant had blown through the country and cases were mostly below 1000 cases per day. Go to Aug 2021 and cases are consistently above 30,000 per day due to the delta variant. It’s obvious you cannot compare those months. Compare Jan 2021 with Aug 2021 to have approx comparable daily cases. Deaths in Jan 2021 were consistently above 1000 daily deaths compared to between 100 and 150 daily for Aug 2021. The vaccines are working. I haven’t even compared vaccinated vs unvaccinated in those figures either.
The numbers are the numbers. They dont lie. If you choose to ignore that's fine. If you pause for even one second and think hangon, how is it that the numbers are higher now than before...? Not suggesting that vaccines are bad or not working for some people. Personally I suspect the bigger issue is a behavioural one but there is no information about that. The policy is to infect as many as possible before winter. After over 18 months of it we seem to have been indoctrinated to think 3000 deaths a month is something to label a success. I don't. That's my opinion.
Yep and you are allowed your opinion. From your replies I can deduce that it’s not a scientific one
Deduce as you must.
It's based on numbers that are available.
Why does it need to be a scientific one? Who made scientists the gods of all things? Are you of the opinion that all scientists are "right" and all have the same opinion? Or just the ones that you agree with? "
Yes it’s based on available numbers and you are ignoring the number of cases  . Simple science ho hum |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"My daughters consent forms got sent out a few weeks ago and I was weighing up my options (I had my vaccine almost as soon as my age grouo was called up but I'm not sure on exactly how much benifits a young healthy 13 yr old will get from the jab) while I was thinking about it I timed out (not a big deal because I can take her to a walk in center if and when I decide that's what we want to do) while all the other kids with consent forms when off to go get there vaccines the kids who hadn't got there forms in all got taken to a room where a teacher reprimanded them for being selfish and lazy for not doing there bit which I thought was discraceful tbh
I'm sorry but Do you have any proof that that happened because I am exceptionally doubtful. "
Yes I sent my daughter to school with an fbi style wire to record the whole thing because my crystal ball told me that would be what happend . Of course I don't have proof just the word of my daughter who come home and told me that the half dozen kids who didn't go to the hall to have the jab all went to a classroom to continue lessons and the teacher went on a mini rant at them, I believe my daughter there are plenty of people who feel strongly enough about everyone getting vaxed that they feel they have the right to speak out against people who feel differently, it's not like it was set up by the school to happen just a teacher who felt like she should have her say, it's really not that deep, I thought about going in and complaining but what would be the point |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"where the data? have you seen it NO you havnt because i have . and thats incorrect . youre lying to back your argument
Well figures from the govt daily update website say..
Deaths Aug 2020 278
Deaths Aug 2021 2998
Now by anyone's measure deaths are 10 times higher (well nearly 11). Not sure how that can be interpreted as a measure of success in any way.
Why are you comparing dates and not time periods with like for like infection rates?
Surely even the most basic maths brain realises that is how you gauge the success or failure of the vaccination programme?
Well that's how you choose to measure it.
I think it's reasonable to compare any time period and that after a year of a "successful" vaccination effort and reasonably expect that after a year of effort and 90million doses that numbers would be lower now. Than when they started. Sometimes people get too caught up in the prevailing narrative and lose sight of the fact that over a year into our marvel we are still losing 3k a month people to this. There are those who wish to just crack on because we are jabbed and safe. And we can't live in fear but it's reasonable to be mindful and do what we can to stop infecting others.
I’m afraid that comparing like for like monthly time periods is not scientific at all. Aug 2020 and the initial variant had blown through the country and cases were mostly below 1000 cases per day. Go to Aug 2021 and cases are consistently above 30,000 per day due to the delta variant. It’s obvious you cannot compare those months. Compare Jan 2021 with Aug 2021 to have approx comparable daily cases. Deaths in Jan 2021 were consistently above 1000 daily deaths compared to between 100 and 150 daily for Aug 2021. The vaccines are working. I haven’t even compared vaccinated vs unvaccinated in those figures either.
The numbers are the numbers. They dont lie. If you choose to ignore that's fine. If you pause for even one second and think hangon, how is it that the numbers are higher now than before...? Not suggesting that vaccines are bad or not working for some people. Personally I suspect the bigger issue is a behavioural one but there is no information about that. The policy is to infect as many as possible before winter. After over 18 months of it we seem to have been indoctrinated to think 3000 deaths a month is something to label a success. I don't. That's my opinion.
Yep and you are allowed your opinion. From your replies I can deduce that it’s not a scientific one
Deduce as you must.
It's based on numbers that are available.
Why does it need to be a scientific one? Who made scientists the gods of all things? Are you of the opinion that all scientists are "right" and all have the same opinion? Or just the ones that you agree with? "
Additionally not sure where you are going with the scientist rambles. I never mentioned them  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"
We know you say you deal with it, it is mentioned a lot
You can celebrate the vaccine working well without saying the deaths now are collateral damage. I can't celebrate deaths sorry.
If only there was something we could have done to limit those deaths a bit further, like keeping mitigations going for a bit longer
There’s no celebrating deaths so please don’t twist the statement, as I very clearly said 900 lives unaffected every day is however a wonderful outcome.
Your viewpoint is fairly idealistic to be honest. C-19 has a horrific impact on physical, mental and economic health beyond patients with breathing difficulties. I am confident that opening up of society needed to happen fairly desperately and the timing in which it has occurred has saved more lives than it has cost.
I can only quote for Manchester but by the end of lockdown the deaths from missed cancer screenings or other early diagnosis dependent illnesses, suicides etc far exceeded the current daily C-19 toll within the region.
How exactly do you believe more lives could be saved?
"
I didn't twist anything, you said we should be celebrating as lives are being saved by the vaccine, no one is saying they have not, I said I can't celebrate that we have fewer deaths as you suggested.
I am aware of what we have had to limit in terms of treatments for other things, you don't have to work for the NHS to know this, I also know we had to open up at some point.
Mitigations like other countries and even Scotland are still doing while still opening up may have saved more people from dying.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"
I’m genuinely curious... how in your mind can that positive change in fortunes not be considered successful?
I wouldn't say around 3000 deaths a month is a positive thing. People are still dying.
It most certainly isn't positive but we have no way of knowing how big that number would be if there hadn't been a huge percentage of vaccinated people. "
This is the thing, I actually don't think saying we have saved other lives with the jab will make me ever think that the deaths now are a positive thing
We are losing 2 to 3 plane loads a week and it doesn't seem an issue or reported much on, as if they don't matter because it is less than what it was
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I’m genuinely curious... how in your mind can that positive change in fortunes not be considered successful?
I wouldn't say around 3000 deaths a month is a positive thing. People are still dying.
It most certainly isn't positive but we have no way of knowing how big that number would be if there hadn't been a huge percentage of vaccinated people.
This is the thing, I actually don't think saying we have saved other lives with the jab will make me ever think that the deaths now are a positive thing
We are losing 2 to 3 plane loads a week and it doesn't seem an issue or reported much on, as if they don't matter because it is less than what it was
"
I Think is reported on but
definitely not as much but my thinking was because it's part of us just learning to live with this. Still way to many people losing their lives. I don't like how some people seem to think that because somebody's died you was unvaccinated somehow it doesn't matter. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"This whole virus forum section is absolutely full of hate lol."
Is it?
Yes there have been hateful comments but you get that in all sections of the forums. Disagreeing and having a debate even if it gets heated (not nasty) is seen as a bad thing but I don't think it is. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"This whole virus forum section is absolutely full of hate lol.
Hate for what?
Each other. The arguing sometimes gets a bit over the top. "
Others will see it as debating a subject / post. Saying provocative things like this just sends a debate a different way |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"
I’m genuinely curious... how in your mind can that positive change in fortunes not be considered successful?
I wouldn't say around 3000 deaths a month is a positive thing. People are still dying.
It most certainly isn't positive but we have no way of knowing how big that number would be if there hadn't been a huge percentage of vaccinated people.
This is the thing, I actually don't think saying we have saved other lives with the jab will make me ever think that the deaths now are a positive thing
We are losing 2 to 3 plane loads a week and it doesn't seem an issue or reported much on, as if they don't matter because it is less than what it was
I Think is reported on but
definitely not as much but my thinking was because it's part of us just learning to live with this. Still way to many people losing their lives. I don't like how some people seem to think that because somebody's died you was unvaccinated somehow it doesn't matter. "
They are not all unvaccinated. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
A few spikey comments in here !
Even as someone who leans towards vaccines, I don't envy parents trying to navigate this and I am sure everyone is acting in what they see as the interests of their kids.
And it's not easy. The scientists just about edge towards their being a slight benefit for vaccines... But they are, I assume, looking at an aggregate level. Possibly why they didn't advocate it but deferred ... I suspect you need decent clear water to be comfortable that you have the balance right at an individual level.
We should appreciate that we make different risk based decisions everyday, and I'm fairly sure we are not all internally consistent with our approach to risk. After all we argue all day bout this, but probably take bigger risks each day crossing the road, just to get somewhere a few seconds early !! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I’m genuinely curious... how in your mind can that positive change in fortunes not be considered successful?
I wouldn't say around 3000 deaths a month is a positive thing. People are still dying.
It most certainly isn't positive but we have no way of knowing how big that number would be if there hadn't been a huge percentage of vaccinated people.
This is the thing, I actually don't think saying we have saved other lives with the jab will make me ever think that the deaths now are a positive thing
We are losing 2 to 3 plane loads a week and it doesn't seem an issue or reported much on, as if they don't matter because it is less than what it was
I Think is reported on but
definitely not as much but my thinking was because it's part of us just learning to live with this. Still way to many people losing their lives. I don't like how some people seem to think that because somebody's died you was unvaccinated somehow it doesn't matter.
They are not all unvaccinated. "
I didn't say they are. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Consent forms are going out to parents of school children for the vaccine.
To quote the jvci, “there is only a small advantage for children to receive the vaccine”.
If this is the case, why are the government pushing for these vaccinations? I’m guessing that it is to try and reduce the spread from the young to the older groups.
I’d love to hearyour thoughts, especially parents who are facing this. Would you vaccinate a healthy child?"
Well my 13yr old has informed me that she's had it. I did let her make her own choice on the matter, but I personally would have preferred her not to get it.
As for reducing the spread, that's utter nonsense. The vaccine doesn't stop you catching or spreading it |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Consent forms are going out to parents of school children for the vaccine.
To quote the jvci, “there is only a small advantage for children to receive the vaccine”.
If this is the case, why are the government pushing for these vaccinations? I’m guessing that it is to try and reduce the spread from the young to the older groups.
I’d love to hearyour thoughts, especially parents who are facing this. Would you vaccinate a healthy child?
Well my 13yr old has informed me that she's had it. I did let her make her own choice on the matter, but I personally would have preferred her not to get it.
As for reducing the spread, that's utter nonsense. The vaccine doesn't stop you catching or spreading it "
We don't know that is entirely true. There is evidence that suggests if you contract covid from a vaccinated person it's a lower dose but I'm not a scientist. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"A few spikey comments in here !
Even as someone who leans towards vaccines, I don't envy parents trying to navigate this and I am sure everyone is acting in what they see as the interests of their kids.
And it's not easy. The scientists just about edge towards their being a slight benefit for vaccines... But they are, I assume, looking at an aggregate level. Possibly why they didn't advocate it but deferred ... I suspect you need decent clear water to be comfortable that you have the balance right at an individual level.
We should appreciate that we make different risk based decisions everyday, and I'm fairly sure we are not all internally consistent with our approach to risk. After all we argue all day bout this, but probably take bigger risks each day crossing the road, just to get somewhere a few seconds early !!"
I personally agree with this. I think it’s important to involve the child. The problem is, how about if it’s your child that is the one who gets all the nastiest side effects and ends up ill or worse. Would we still be happy that it was for the good of the masses? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Consent forms are going out to parents of school children for the vaccine.
To quote the jvci, “there is only a small advantage for children to receive the vaccine”.
If this is the case, why are the government pushing for these vaccinations? I’m guessing that it is to try and reduce the spread from the young to the older groups.
I’d love to hearyour thoughts, especially parents who are facing this. Would you vaccinate a healthy child?
Well my 13yr old has informed me that she's had it. I did let her make her own choice on the matter, but I personally would have preferred her not to get it.
As for reducing the spread, that's utter nonsense. The vaccine doesn't stop you catching or spreading it
We don't know that is entirely true. There is evidence that suggests if you contract covid from a vaccinated person it's a lower dose but I'm not a scientist. "
Agreed, but the raw virus can still be passed around on things that we touch as well don’t forget. There would be no difference if vaccinated or not in this instance. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Consent forms are going out to parents of school children for the vaccine.
To quote the jvci, “there is only a small advantage for children to receive the vaccine”.
If this is the case, why are the government pushing for these vaccinations? I’m guessing that it is to try and reduce the spread from the young to the older groups.
I’d love to hearyour thoughts, especially parents who are facing this. Would you vaccinate a healthy child?
Well my 13yr old has informed me that she's had it. I did let her make her own choice on the matter, but I personally would have preferred her not to get it.
As for reducing the spread, that's utter nonsense. The vaccine doesn't stop you catching or spreading it
We don't know that is entirely true. There is evidence that suggests if you contract covid from a vaccinated person it's a lower dose but I'm not a scientist.
Agreed, but the raw virus can still be passed around on things that we touch as well don’t forget. There would be no difference if vaccinated or not in this instance."
True but I think the majority of people that are infected is due to close contact. Obviously washing our hands regularly will help. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Consent forms are going out to parents of school children for the vaccine.
To quote the jvci, “there is only a small advantage for children to receive the vaccine”.
If this is the case, why are the government pushing for these vaccinations? I’m guessing that it is to try and reduce the spread from the young to the older groups.
I’d love to hearyour thoughts, especially parents who are facing this. Would you vaccinate a healthy child?
Well my 13yr old has informed me that she's had it. I did let her make her own choice on the matter, but I personally would have preferred her not to get it.
As for reducing the spread, that's utter nonsense. The vaccine doesn't stop you catching or spreading it
We don't know that is entirely true. There is evidence that suggests if you contract covid from a vaccinated person it's a lower dose but I'm not a scientist. "
They have said it!! It doesn't stop you catching it or passing it on! You can also still get seriously ill and die. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Consent forms are going out to parents of school children for the vaccine.
To quote the jvci, “there is only a small advantage for children to receive the vaccine”.
If this is the case, why are the government pushing for these vaccinations? I’m guessing that it is to try and reduce the spread from the young to the older groups.
I’d love to hearyour thoughts, especially parents who are facing this. Would you vaccinate a healthy child?
Well my 13yr old has informed me that she's had it. I did let her make her own choice on the matter, but I personally would have preferred her not to get it.
As for reducing the spread, that's utter nonsense. The vaccine doesn't stop you catching or spreading it
We don't know that is entirely true. There is evidence that suggests if you contract covid from a vaccinated person it's a lower dose but I'm not a scientist.
They have said it!! It doesn't stop you catching it or passing it on! You can also still get seriously ill and die. "
Yes they have said that but your 1st statement was untrue that it doesn't have any effect on spread because it does just not as much as first hoped. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *anesjhCouple
over a year ago
LONDON. |
"Consent forms are going out to parents of school children for the vaccine.
To quote the jvci, “there is only a small advantage for children to receive the vaccine”.
If this is the case, why are the government pushing for these vaccinations? I’m guessing that it is to try and reduce the spread from the young to the older groups.
I’d love to hearyour thoughts, especially parents who are facing this. Would you vaccinate a healthy child?
Well my 13yr old has informed me that she's had it. I did let her make her own choice on the matter, but I personally would have preferred her not to get it.
As for reducing the spread, that's utter nonsense. The vaccine doesn't stop you catching or spreading it
We don't know that is entirely true. There is evidence that suggests if you contract covid from a vaccinated person it's a lower dose but I'm not a scientist.
They have said it!! It doesn't stop you catching it or passing it on! You can also still get seriously ill and die. "
That's the truth. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Consent forms are going out to parents of school children for the vaccine.
To quote the jvci, “there is only a small advantage for children to receive the vaccine”.
If this is the case, why are the government pushing for these vaccinations? I’m guessing that it is to try and reduce the spread from the young to the older groups.
I’d love to hearyour thoughts, especially parents who are facing this. Would you vaccinate a healthy child?
Well my 13yr old has informed me that she's had it. I did let her make her own choice on the matter, but I personally would have preferred her not to get it.
As for reducing the spread, that's utter nonsense. The vaccine doesn't stop you catching or spreading it
We don't know that is entirely true. There is evidence that suggests if you contract covid from a vaccinated person it's a lower dose but I'm not a scientist. "
A well regarded immunologist in the US recently said that the vaccines make you 10-20x less likely to spread Covid.
I'm not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good - and to me, that's bloody good. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
I’m genuinely curious... how in your mind can that positive change in fortunes not be considered successful?
I wouldn't say around 3000 deaths a month is a positive thing. People are still dying.
It most certainly isn't positive but we have no way of knowing how big that number would be if there hadn't been a huge percentage of vaccinated people.
This is the thing, I actually don't think saying we have saved other lives with the jab will make me ever think that the deaths now are a positive thing
We are losing 2 to 3 plane loads a week and it doesn't seem an issue or reported much on, as if they don't matter because it is less than what it was
I Think is reported on but
definitely not as much but my thinking was because it's part of us just learning to live with this. Still way to many people losing their lives. I don't like how some people seem to think that because somebody's died you was unvaccinated somehow it doesn't matter.
They are not all unvaccinated. "
From the report for the 4 weeks 36 to 39..
Total deaths with covid 3026
Total unvaccinated 752.
Source..
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk › ...PDF
Web results
COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report - week 40 - GOV.UK |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
I’m genuinely curious... how in your mind can that positive change in fortunes not be considered successful?
I wouldn't say around 3000 deaths a month is a positive thing. People are still dying.
It most certainly isn't positive but we have no way of knowing how big that number would be if there hadn't been a huge percentage of vaccinated people.
This is the thing, I actually don't think saying we have saved other lives with the jab will make me ever think that the deaths now are a positive thing
We are losing 2 to 3 plane loads a week and it doesn't seem an issue or reported much on, as if they don't matter because it is less than what it was
I Think is reported on but
definitely not as much but my thinking was because it's part of us just learning to live with this. Still way to many people losing their lives. I don't like how some people seem to think that because somebody's died you was unvaccinated somehow it doesn't matter.
They are not all unvaccinated.
From the report for the 4 weeks 36 to 39..
Total deaths with covid 3026
Total unvaccinated 752.
Source..
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk › ...PDF
Web results
COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report - week 40 - GOV.UK"
and from the same report.
No of infections in under 18 years..
305428, unvaccinated... 272981,
deaths 6 unvaccinated 2
Hospitalisations 486, unvaccinated 455
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
Cookstown |
"gov data say aug2020 360 deaths
gov data say aug2021 3900 deaths
what exaclty is the vaccine doing?
"
Many of the people dying haven't been vaccinated
Check the number of infections vs deaths for both periods
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"A few spikey comments in here !
Even as someone who leans towards vaccines, I don't envy parents trying to navigate this and I am sure everyone is acting in what they see as the interests of their kids.
And it's not easy. The scientists just about edge towards their being a slight benefit for vaccines... But they are, I assume, looking at an aggregate level. Possibly why they didn't advocate it but deferred ... I suspect you need decent clear water to be comfortable that you have the balance right at an individual level.
We should appreciate that we make different risk based decisions everyday, and I'm fairly sure we are not all internally consistent with our approach to risk. After all we argue all day bout this, but probably take bigger risks each day crossing the road, just to get somewhere a few seconds early !!
I personally agree with this. I think it’s important to involve the child. The problem is, how about if it’s your child that is the one who gets all the nastiest side effects and ends up ill or worse. Would we still be happy that it was for the good of the masses?"
the psychology of decision making accounts for a lot, especially temperal discounting.
Eg IF your child had side effects you'd know it was directly from your decision. Whether this was right "on balance" i can one may blame themselves big style.
If you didn't vaccinate your kif and they suffered you would still feel bad, but there may be a small voice that says "they may have suffered anyway so I may not have made the wrong decision"
Plus that outcome may be a while into the future so feels less painful when thinking about it today (especially if you say there's lots of IFs, it feels more unlikely even if it's not)
Like I say, we make irrational (from the sense of a computer) decisions all the time. It's part of being human. Jumping on people because they make a decision you disagree with is a bit shit. Help show them your workings for sure. Correct missinterpretations of stats. Great. Judge them for seeing the same borderline data and judge them... That's poor. Very human.... Which is in itself contradictory!! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"
I’m genuinely curious... how in your mind can that positive change in fortunes not be considered successful?
I wouldn't say around 3000 deaths a month is a positive thing. People are still dying.
It most certainly isn't positive but we have no way of knowing how big that number would be if there hadn't been a huge percentage of vaccinated people.
This is the thing, I actually don't think saying we have saved other lives with the jab will make me ever think that the deaths now are a positive thing
We are losing 2 to 3 plane loads a week and it doesn't seem an issue or reported much on, as if they don't matter because it is less than what it was
I Think is reported on but
definitely not as much but my thinking was because it's part of us just learning to live with this. Still way to many people losing their lives. I don't like how some people seem to think that because somebody's died you was unvaccinated somehow it doesn't matter.
They are not all unvaccinated.
From the report for the 4 weeks 36 to 39..
Total deaths with covid 3026
Total unvaccinated 752.
Source..
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk › ...PDF
Web results
COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report - week 40 - GOV.UK"
That surprises me, I thought it would be the other way round. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The way it's going at our school every teen will have caught covid by half term anyway and there will be no need for a vaccination. Not for this year anyway. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I’m genuinely curious... how in your mind can that positive change in fortunes not be considered successful?
I wouldn't say around 3000 deaths a month is a positive thing. People are still dying.
It most certainly isn't positive but we have no way of knowing how big that number would be if there hadn't been a huge percentage of vaccinated people.
This is the thing, I actually don't think saying we have saved other lives with the jab will make me ever think that the deaths now are a positive thing
We are losing 2 to 3 plane loads a week and it doesn't seem an issue or reported much on, as if they don't matter because it is less than what it was
I Think is reported on but
definitely not as much but my thinking was because it's part of us just learning to live with this. Still way to many people losing their lives. I don't like how some people seem to think that because somebody's died you was unvaccinated somehow it doesn't matter.
They are not all unvaccinated.
From the report for the 4 weeks 36 to 39..
Total deaths with covid 3026
Total unvaccinated 752.
Source..
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk › ...PDF
Web results
COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report - week 40 - GOV.UK
That surprises me, I thought it would be the other way round."
I thought it was too so did a little research.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/13/fully-vaccinated-people-account-for-12-of-englands-covid-19-deaths
Is one of the sources and its still suggests you are far more likely to die if you have not been vaccinated. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Look at sweden figures...
Herd immunity..... Lowest in europe "
You might want to look at that again because that isn't true. Several European countries have lover death rates than Sweden including Ireland.
There care home deaths is the 7th highest in Europe. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I’m genuinely curious... how in your mind can that positive change in fortunes not be considered successful?
I wouldn't say around 3000 deaths a month is a positive thing. People are still dying.
It most certainly isn't positive but we have no way of knowing how big that number would be if there hadn't been a huge percentage of vaccinated people.
This is the thing, I actually don't think saying we have saved other lives with the jab will make me ever think that the deaths now are a positive thing
We are losing 2 to 3 plane loads a week and it doesn't seem an issue or reported much on, as if they don't matter because it is less than what it was
I Think is reported on but
definitely not as much but my thinking was because it's part of us just learning to live with this. Still way to many people losing their lives. I don't like how some people seem to think that because somebody's died you was unvaccinated somehow it doesn't matter.
They are not all unvaccinated.
From the report for the 4 weeks 36 to 39..
Total deaths with covid 3026
Total unvaccinated 752.
Source..
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk › ...PDF
Web results
COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report - week 40 - GOV.UK
That surprises me, I thought it would be the other way round.
I thought it was too so did a little research.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/13/fully-vaccinated-people-account-for-12-of-englands-covid-19-deaths
Is one of the sources and its still suggests you are far more likely to die if you have not been vaccinated. "
Majority of ppl are vaccinated tho. So that creates a numerical bias towards vaccinated. Page 15 is telling. It's c 3x to 5x the death rate per 100000 for unvax v Vax. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I’m genuinely curious... how in your mind can that positive change in fortunes not be considered successful?
I wouldn't say around 3000 deaths a month is a positive thing. People are still dying.
It most certainly isn't positive but we have no way of knowing how big that number would be if there hadn't been a huge percentage of vaccinated people.
This is the thing, I actually don't think saying we have saved other lives with the jab will make me ever think that the deaths now are a positive thing
We are losing 2 to 3 plane loads a week and it doesn't seem an issue or reported much on, as if they don't matter because it is less than what it was
I Think is reported on but
definitely not as much but my thinking was because it's part of us just learning to live with this. Still way to many people losing their lives. I don't like how some people seem to think that because somebody's died you was unvaccinated somehow it doesn't matter.
They are not all unvaccinated.
From the report for the 4 weeks 36 to 39..
Total deaths with covid 3026
Total unvaccinated 752.
Source..
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk › ...PDF
Web results
COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report - week 40 - GOV.UK
That surprises me, I thought it would be the other way round.
I thought it was too so did a little research.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/13/fully-vaccinated-people-account-for-12-of-englands-covid-19-deaths
Is one of the sources and its still suggests you are far more likely to die if you have not been vaccinated.
Majority of ppl are vaccinated tho. So that creates a numerical bias towards vaccinated. Page 15 is telling. It's c 3x to 5x the death rate per 100000 for unvax v Vax. "
Yes of course it's like when people say but more people that have been vaccinated are getting infected. Because like you said over 90% of the adult population has now had at least one vaccination and the vast majority of that have now had 2. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Look at sweden figures...
Herd immunity..... Lowest in europe
You might want to look at that again because that isn't true. Several European countries have lover death rates than Sweden including Ireland.
There care home deaths is the 7th highest in Europe."
And that is with pretty much the highest spend per capita on health in the world and a vaccinated only just below ours. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Look at sweden figures...
Herd immunity..... Lowest in europe
You might want to look at that again because that isn't true. Several European countries have lover death rates than Sweden including Ireland.
There care home deaths is the 7th highest in Europe.
And that is with pretty much the highest spend per capita on health in the world and a vaccinated only just below ours."
Yeah, that's an appalling performance. Who'd have thought, huh? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Look at sweden figures...
Herd immunity..... Lowest in europe
You might want to look at that again because that isn't true. Several European countries have lover death rates than Sweden including Ireland.
There care home deaths is the 7th highest in Europe.
And that is with pretty much the highest spend per capita on health in the world and a vaccinated only just below ours.
Yeah, that's an appalling performance. Who'd have thought, huh?"
Yes I don't understand why people are still using Sweden as an example of how well herd immunity works. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"
I’m genuinely curious... how in your mind can that positive change in fortunes not be considered successful?
I wouldn't say around 3000 deaths a month is a positive thing. People are still dying.
It most certainly isn't positive but we have no way of knowing how big that number would be if there hadn't been a huge percentage of vaccinated people.
This is the thing, I actually don't think saying we have saved other lives with the jab will make me ever think that the deaths now are a positive thing
We are losing 2 to 3 plane loads a week and it doesn't seem an issue or reported much on, as if they don't matter because it is less than what it was
I Think is reported on but
definitely not as much but my thinking was because it's part of us just learning to live with this. Still way to many people losing their lives. I don't like how some people seem to think that because somebody's died you was unvaccinated somehow it doesn't matter.
They are not all unvaccinated.
From the report for the 4 weeks 36 to 39..
Total deaths with covid 3026
Total unvaccinated 752.
Source..
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk › ...PDF
Web results
COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report - week 40 - GOV.UK
That surprises me, I thought it would be the other way round.
I thought it was too so did a little research.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/13/fully-vaccinated-people-account-for-12-of-englands-covid-19-deaths
Is one of the sources and its still suggests you are far more likely to die if you have not been vaccinated. "
That article was data between Jan and July , the above data is October.
I believe the vaccine will help against covid otherwise I wouldn't have got it, but the data can't be ignored. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Pal they will call you a conspiracy theorist but people with common sense have already listened to the warnings. This is sinister Bond villain shit that’s happening world wide but the world is overpopulated and it wouldn’t work if they openly admit they need to kill a few billion off. And all this from someone eating a bat that they have been eating that shit for years. Some people still believe in farther Christmas |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Pal they will call you a conspiracy theorist but people with common sense have already listened to the warnings. This is sinister Bond villain shit that’s happening world wide but the world is overpopulated and it wouldn’t work if they openly admit they need to kill a few billion off. And all this from someone eating a bat that they have been eating that shit for years. Some people still believe in farther Christmas "
If they were trying to kill off a few billion they didn't do very well did they. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
I’m genuinely curious... how in your mind can that positive change in fortunes not be considered successful?
I wouldn't say around 3000 deaths a month is a positive thing. People are still dying.
It most certainly isn't positive but we have no way of knowing how big that number would be if there hadn't been a huge percentage of vaccinated people.
This is the thing, I actually don't think saying we have saved other lives with the jab will make me ever think that the deaths now are a positive thing
We are losing 2 to 3 plane loads a week and it doesn't seem an issue or reported much on, as if they don't matter because it is less than what it was
I Think is reported on but
definitely not as much but my thinking was because it's part of us just learning to live with this. Still way to many people losing their lives. I don't like how some people seem to think that because somebody's died you was unvaccinated somehow it doesn't matter.
They are not all unvaccinated.
From the report for the 4 weeks 36 to 39..
Total deaths with covid 3026
Total unvaccinated 752.
Source..
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk › ...PDF
Web results
COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report - week 40 - GOV.UK
That surprises me, I thought it would be the other way round.
I thought it was too so did a little research.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/13/fully-vaccinated-people-account-for-12-of-englands-covid-19-deaths
Is one of the sources and its still suggests you are far more likely to die if you have not been vaccinated.
Majority of ppl are vaccinated tho. So that creates a numerical bias towards vaccinated. Page 15 is telling. It's c 3x to 5x the death rate per 100000 for unvax v Vax.
Yes of course it's like when people say but more people that have been vaccinated are getting infected. Because like you said over 90% of the adult population has now had at least one vaccination and the vast majority of that have now had 2. "
That's why words are important. The point I was responding to was "most people / more people dying are unvaccinated. Which is inaccurate as most are vaccinated.
If you're talking rates per 100k. There's some interesting anomalies. Like infection.. if you're over 30 you're more likely to be infected if you are vaccinated than if you're not vaccinated and in fact if you're 40 to 49, twice as likely.
But for hospitalisations and deaths youre at least 2 times as likely to be hospitalised or die if you're not vaccinated for older age groups.. . And it seems to be even more effective the younger age group you are (though could that because the effect of the vax is waning in older age groups?)
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It's up to the child, really.
Also, the reason it has been rolled out to this age group is not for the protection on the child, but those they come into contact with. How many times does this have to be said before people take notice?
We live in a culture of "me me me" you cannot make people do things only for others without utter confusion.
You’re correct. I’m very selfish. My sole concern is that of the safety of MY children. Not strangers.
You’ve talked in the past on these forums both about your own personal refusal to vaccinate and also your love of dermal fillers and cosmetic procedure.
Personally, I find it quite bizarre in terms of medical risk one is able to justify a vastly greater risk in the name of temporary beauty compared to the lesser risk related to safeguarding personal and indeed public long term health.
Yep. Quite right. I choose to have lots of cosmetic procedures done and I choose not to be vaccinated or have my children vacccibwted against vivid. That’s the fabulous thing about living in the uk - choice "
The inability to comprehend and weight up relative risks isn’t down to choice, it’s partly down to nature and partly down to nurture. Some of us are just born to make bad calls in life. Your “free choice” decisions are largely decided long before you even consider them. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I’m genuinely curious... how in your mind can that positive change in fortunes not be considered successful?
I wouldn't say around 3000 deaths a month is a positive thing. People are still dying.
It most certainly isn't positive but we have no way of knowing how big that number would be if there hadn't been a huge percentage of vaccinated people.
This is the thing, I actually don't think saying we have saved other lives with the jab will make me ever think that the deaths now are a positive thing
We are losing 2 to 3 plane loads a week and it doesn't seem an issue or reported much on, as if they don't matter because it is less than what it was
I Think is reported on but
definitely not as much but my thinking was because it's part of us just learning to live with this. Still way to many people losing their lives. I don't like how some people seem to think that because somebody's died you was unvaccinated somehow it doesn't matter.
They are not all unvaccinated.
From the report for the 4 weeks 36 to 39..
Total deaths with covid 3026
Total unvaccinated 752.
Source..
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk › ...PDF
Web results
COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report - week 40 - GOV.UK
That surprises me, I thought it would be the other way round.
I thought it was too so did a little research.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/13/fully-vaccinated-people-account-for-12-of-englands-covid-19-deaths
Is one of the sources and its still suggests you are far more likely to die if you have not been vaccinated.
Majority of ppl are vaccinated tho. So that creates a numerical bias towards vaccinated. Page 15 is telling. It's c 3x to 5x the death rate per 100000 for unvax v Vax.
Yes of course it's like when people say but more people that have been vaccinated are getting infected. Because like you said over 90% of the adult population has now had at least one vaccination and the vast majority of that have now had 2.
That's why words are important. The point I was responding to was "most people / more people dying are unvaccinated. Which is inaccurate as most are vaccinated.
If you're talking rates per 100k. There's some interesting anomalies. Like infection.. if you're over 30 you're more likely to be infected if you are vaccinated than if you're not vaccinated and in fact if you're 40 to 49, twice as likely.
But for hospitalisations and deaths youre at least 2 times as likely to be hospitalised or die if you're not vaccinated for older age groups.. . And it seems to be even more effective the younger age group you are (though could that because the effect of the vax is waning in older age groups?)
"
cases is also a function of testing. Given 30 - 50 is a good proportion of the working population, I can believe those that are vaccinated are also those who are testing regularly. The unvax are more head in sand. (It's a hypothesis). |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
I’m genuinely curious... how in your mind can that positive change in fortunes not be considered successful?
I wouldn't say around 3000 deaths a month is a positive thing. People are still dying.
It most certainly isn't positive but we have no way of knowing how big that number would be if there hadn't been a huge percentage of vaccinated people.
This is the thing, I actually don't think saying we have saved other lives with the jab will make me ever think that the deaths now are a positive thing
We are losing 2 to 3 plane loads a week and it doesn't seem an issue or reported much on, as if they don't matter because it is less than what it was
I Think is reported on but
definitely not as much but my thinking was because it's part of us just learning to live with this. Still way to many people losing their lives. I don't like how some people seem to think that because somebody's died you was unvaccinated somehow it doesn't matter.
They are not all unvaccinated.
From the report for the 4 weeks 36 to 39..
Total deaths with covid 3026
Total unvaccinated 752.
Source..
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk › ...PDF
Web results
COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report - week 40 - GOV.UK
That surprises me, I thought it would be the other way round.
I thought it was too so did a little research.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/13/fully-vaccinated-people-account-for-12-of-englands-covid-19-deaths
Is one of the sources and its still suggests you are far more likely to die if you have not been vaccinated.
Majority of ppl are vaccinated tho. So that creates a numerical bias towards vaccinated. Page 15 is telling. It's c 3x to 5x the death rate per 100000 for unvax v Vax.
Yes of course it's like when people say but more people that have been vaccinated are getting infected. Because like you said over 90% of the adult population has now had at least one vaccination and the vast majority of that have now had 2.
That's why words are important. The point I was responding to was "most people / more people dying are unvaccinated. Which is inaccurate as most are vaccinated.
If you're talking rates per 100k. There's some interesting anomalies. Like infection.. if you're over 30 you're more likely to be infected if you are vaccinated than if you're not vaccinated and in fact if you're 40 to 49, twice as likely.
But for hospitalisations and deaths youre at least 2 times as likely to be hospitalised or die if you're not vaccinated for older age groups.. . And it seems to be even more effective the younger age group you are (though could that because the effect of the vax is waning in older age groups?)
cases is also a function of testing. Given 30 - 50 is a good proportion of the working population, I can believe those that are vaccinated are also those who are testing regularly. The unvax are more head in sand. (It's a hypothesis). "
Bit of prejudice there mate. Those who can't or won't are head in the sand.? Those who are vaxed are testing regularly? Some big assumptions there. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I’m genuinely curious... how in your mind can that positive change in fortunes not be considered successful?
I wouldn't say around 3000 deaths a month is a positive thing. People are still dying.
It most certainly isn't positive but we have no way of knowing how big that number would be if there hadn't been a huge percentage of vaccinated people.
This is the thing, I actually don't think saying we have saved other lives with the jab will make me ever think that the deaths now are a positive thing
We are losing 2 to 3 plane loads a week and it doesn't seem an issue or reported much on, as if they don't matter because it is less than what it was
I Think is reported on but
definitely not as much but my thinking was because it's part of us just learning to live with this. Still way to many people losing their lives. I don't like how some people seem to think that because somebody's died you was unvaccinated somehow it doesn't matter.
They are not all unvaccinated.
From the report for the 4 weeks 36 to 39..
Total deaths with covid 3026
Total unvaccinated 752.
Source..
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk › ...PDF
Web results
COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report - week 40 - GOV.UK
That surprises me, I thought it would be the other way round.
I thought it was too so did a little research.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/13/fully-vaccinated-people-account-for-12-of-englands-covid-19-deaths
Is one of the sources and its still suggests you are far more likely to die if you have not been vaccinated.
Majority of ppl are vaccinated tho. So that creates a numerical bias towards vaccinated. Page 15 is telling. It's c 3x to 5x the death rate per 100000 for unvax v Vax.
Yes of course it's like when people say but more people that have been vaccinated are getting infected. Because like you said over 90% of the adult population has now had at least one vaccination and the vast majority of that have now had 2.
That's why words are important. The point I was responding to was "most people / more people dying are unvaccinated. Which is inaccurate as most are vaccinated.
If you're talking rates per 100k. There's some interesting anomalies. Like infection.. if you're over 30 you're more likely to be infected if you are vaccinated than if you're not vaccinated and in fact if you're 40 to 49, twice as likely.
But for hospitalisations and deaths youre at least 2 times as likely to be hospitalised or die if you're not vaccinated for older age groups.. . And it seems to be even more effective the younger age group you are (though could that because the effect of the vax is waning in older age groups?)
cases is also a function of testing. Given 30 - 50 is a good proportion of the working population, I can believe those that are vaccinated are also those who are testing regularly. The unvax are more head in sand. (It's a hypothesis).
Bit of prejudice there mate. Those who can't or won't are head in the sand.? Those who are vaxed are testing regularly? Some big assumptions there. "
it's a hypothesis that explains the anomoly. Maybe I've added some emotion, but is it believable that vaccinated test more ? I think so. And of they test more, would you see more cases. Id say yes. So it explains it.
The alternative reality is something about the vaccine makes certain ages more susceptible. That is possible but I'm not sure i understand how.
Both could be true. I'm open to both. Im not sure if I can prove my hypothesis... But someone with access to data (eg HMG) could. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
I’m genuinely curious... how in your mind can that positive change in fortunes not be considered successful?
I wouldn't say around 3000 deaths a month is a positive thing. People are still dying.
It most certainly isn't positive but we have no way of knowing how big that number would be if there hadn't been a huge percentage of vaccinated people.
This is the thing, I actually don't think saying we have saved other lives with the jab will make me ever think that the deaths now are a positive thing
We are losing 2 to 3 plane loads a week and it doesn't seem an issue or reported much on, as if they don't matter because it is less than what it was
I Think is reported on but
definitely not as much but my thinking was because it's part of us just learning to live with this. Still way to many people losing their lives. I don't like how some people seem to think that because somebody's died you was unvaccinated somehow it doesn't matter.
They are not all unvaccinated.
From the report for the 4 weeks 36 to 39..
Total deaths with covid 3026
Total unvaccinated 752.
Source..
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk › ...PDF
Web results
COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report - week 40 - GOV.UK
That surprises me, I thought it would be the other way round.
I thought it was too so did a little research.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/13/fully-vaccinated-people-account-for-12-of-englands-covid-19-deaths
Is one of the sources and its still suggests you are far more likely to die if you have not been vaccinated.
Majority of ppl are vaccinated tho. So that creates a numerical bias towards vaccinated. Page 15 is telling. It's c 3x to 5x the death rate per 100000 for unvax v Vax.
Yes of course it's like when people say but more people that have been vaccinated are getting infected. Because like you said over 90% of the adult population has now had at least one vaccination and the vast majority of that have now had 2.
That's why words are important. The point I was responding to was "most people / more people dying are unvaccinated. Which is inaccurate as most are vaccinated.
If you're talking rates per 100k. There's some interesting anomalies. Like infection.. if you're over 30 you're more likely to be infected if you are vaccinated than if you're not vaccinated and in fact if you're 40 to 49, twice as likely.
But for hospitalisations and deaths youre at least 2 times as likely to be hospitalised or die if you're not vaccinated for older age groups.. . And it seems to be even more effective the younger age group you are (though could that because the effect of the vax is waning in older age groups?)
cases is also a function of testing. Given 30 - 50 is a good proportion of the working population, I can believe those that are vaccinated are also those who are testing regularly. The unvax are more head in sand. (It's a hypothesis).
Bit of prejudice there mate. Those who can't or won't are head in the sand.? Those who are vaxed are testing regularly? Some big assumptions there. "
I would say fair and reasonable assumptions based on my experience. Those I know who are strongly anti vaccine are generally also strongly anti testing. What I would add though is there may be a gradual fading in testing in those who are vaccinated, only so many times getting a negative result each time one has the sniffles starts to become tedious. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I’m genuinely curious... how in your mind can that positive change in fortunes not be considered successful?
I wouldn't say around 3000 deaths a month is a positive thing. People are still dying.
It most certainly isn't positive but we have no way of knowing how big that number would be if there hadn't been a huge percentage of vaccinated people.
This is the thing, I actually don't think saying we have saved other lives with the jab will make me ever think that the deaths now are a positive thing
We are losing 2 to 3 plane loads a week and it doesn't seem an issue or reported much on, as if they don't matter because it is less than what it was
I Think is reported on but
definitely not as much but my thinking was because it's part of us just learning to live with this. Still way to many people losing their lives. I don't like how some people seem to think that because somebody's died you was unvaccinated somehow it doesn't matter.
They are not all unvaccinated.
From the report for the 4 weeks 36 to 39..
Total deaths with covid 3026
Total unvaccinated 752.
Source..
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk › ...PDF
Web results
COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report - week 40 - GOV.UK
That surprises me, I thought it would be the other way round.
I thought it was too so did a little research.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/13/fully-vaccinated-people-account-for-12-of-englands-covid-19-deaths
Is one of the sources and its still suggests you are far more likely to die if you have not been vaccinated.
Majority of ppl are vaccinated tho. So that creates a numerical bias towards vaccinated. Page 15 is telling. It's c 3x to 5x the death rate per 100000 for unvax v Vax.
Yes of course it's like when people say but more people that have been vaccinated are getting infected. Because like you said over 90% of the adult population has now had at least one vaccination and the vast majority of that have now had 2.
That's why words are important. The point I was responding to was "most people / more people dying are unvaccinated. Which is inaccurate as most are vaccinated.
If you're talking rates per 100k. There's some interesting anomalies. Like infection.. if you're over 30 you're more likely to be infected if you are vaccinated than if you're not vaccinated and in fact if you're 40 to 49, twice as likely.
But for hospitalisations and deaths youre at least 2 times as likely to be hospitalised or die if you're not vaccinated for older age groups.. . And it seems to be even more effective the younger age group you are (though could that because the effect of the vax is waning in older age groups?)
cases is also a function of testing. Given 30 - 50 is a good proportion of the working population, I can believe those that are vaccinated are also those who are testing regularly. The unvax are more head in sand. (It's a hypothesis).
Bit of prejudice there mate. Those who can't or won't are head in the sand.? Those who are vaxed are testing regularly? Some big assumptions there.
I would say fair and reasonable assumptions based on my experience. Those I know who are strongly anti vaccine are generally also strongly anti testing. What I would add though is there may be a gradual fading in testing in those who are vaccinated, only so many times getting a negative result each time one has the sniffles starts to become tedious."
may depend on where you work... I'm asked to do frequently. Because as we know, vaccine doesn't mean you can't catch and spread it !! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2157
From the BMJ last month.
One in 7 kids have symptoms of Long Covid past 15 weeks. Considering the numbers of teenagers unvaccinated- this is going to cause a huge legacy.
This is what parents will for find confusing. It seems that the bmj and the jvci have opposing views. "
It's mixed messaging, mention the yellow card system and the pro vaccine people say, that's self reporting and can't be trusted then they say look at the long covid figures and the anti vaccine brigade say that's self reporting and can't be trusted!. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Vaccine efficacies are based on risk reduction, the higher your risk the better the risk reduction, the lower your risk the lower the risk reduction.
ONS figures show a hospitalisation rate of 7 per 100k in the 0-18 age range.
Deaths can't be measured at per 100k and get moved to per million it's roughly 4-5 per million.
Based on this risk you'd have to ask yourself what's the efficacy of the risk reduction?.
Now cases are indeed where the lesser lies, you will indeed get less cases with vaccinated to unvaccinated roughly around 50% less.
The JVCIs conclusion was it was unjustifiable to expect this group to inherit risk from vaccination to save over 80 year olds(whom still make up most deaths) for a few extra years of life, every 80+ year old I've asked about this actually agreed with that statement. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
Cookstown |
"Consent forms are going out to parents of school children for the vaccine.
To quote the jvci, “there is only a small advantage for children to receive the vaccine”.
If this is the case, why are the government pushing for these vaccinations? I’m guessing that it is to try and reduce the spread from the young to the older groups.
I’d love to hearyour thoughts, especially parents who are facing this. Would you vaccinate a healthy child?"
I guess they are sending out consent forms to give people a choice.
Is choice a bad thing ? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ombikerMan
over a year ago
the right side of the river |
"Consent forms are going out to parents of school children for the vaccine.
To quote the jvci, “there is only a small advantage for children to receive the vaccine”.
If this is the case, why are the government pushing for these vaccinations? I’m guessing that it is to try and reduce the spread from the young to the older groups.
I’d love to hearyour thoughts, especially parents who are facing this. Would you vaccinate a healthy child?"
All your doubts will be answered if you look for a letter of liability, that is a letter stating the pharm company /school/ nhs/ government, somebody, anybody will take full responsibility and liability for any adverse effect from the jab |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
I’m genuinely curious... how in your mind can that positive change in fortunes not be considered successful?
I wouldn't say around 3000 deaths a month is a positive thing. People are still dying.
It most certainly isn't positive but we have no way of knowing how big that number would be if there hadn't been a huge percentage of vaccinated people.
This is the thing, I actually don't think saying we have saved other lives with the jab will make me ever think that the deaths now are a positive thing
We are losing 2 to 3 plane loads a week and it doesn't seem an issue or reported much on, as if they don't matter because it is less than what it was
I Think is reported on but
definitely not as much but my thinking was because it's part of us just learning to live with this. Still way to many people losing their lives. I don't like how some people seem to think that because somebody's died you was unvaccinated somehow it doesn't matter.
They are not all unvaccinated.
From the report for the 4 weeks 36 to 39..
Total deaths with covid 3026
Total unvaccinated 752.
Source..
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk › ...PDF
Web results
COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report - week 40 - GOV.UK
That surprises me, I thought it would be the other way round.
I thought it was too so did a little research.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/13/fully-vaccinated-people-account-for-12-of-englands-covid-19-deaths
Is one of the sources and its still suggests you are far more likely to die if you have not been vaccinated.
Majority of ppl are vaccinated tho. So that creates a numerical bias towards vaccinated. Page 15 is telling. It's c 3x to 5x the death rate per 100000 for unvax v Vax.
Yes of course it's like when people say but more people that have been vaccinated are getting infected. Because like you said over 90% of the adult population has now had at least one vaccination and the vast majority of that have now had 2.
That's why words are important. The point I was responding to was "most people / more people dying are unvaccinated. Which is inaccurate as most are vaccinated.
If you're talking rates per 100k. There's some interesting anomalies. Like infection.. if you're over 30 you're more likely to be infected if you are vaccinated than if you're not vaccinated and in fact if you're 40 to 49, twice as likely.
But for hospitalisations and deaths youre at least 2 times as likely to be hospitalised or die if you're not vaccinated for older age groups.. . And it seems to be even more effective the younger age group you are (though could that because the effect of the vax is waning in older age groups?)
cases is also a function of testing. Given 30 - 50 is a good proportion of the working population, I can believe those that are vaccinated are also those who are testing regularly. The unvax are more head in sand. (It's a hypothesis).
Bit of prejudice there mate. Those who can't or won't are head in the sand.? Those who are vaxed are testing regularly? Some big assumptions there. it's a hypothesis that explains the anomoly. Maybe I've added some emotion, but is it believable that vaccinated test more ? I think so. And of they test more, would you see more cases. Id say yes. So it explains it.
The alternative reality is something about the vaccine makes certain ages more susceptible. That is possible but I'm not sure i understand how.
Both could be true. I'm open to both. Im not sure if I can prove my hypothesis... But someone with access to data (eg HMG) could. "
Or...
Most people I know are double jabbed.. Or at least say they are. And they don't seem to be taking many if any precautions... Conversely I don't meet many / any who claim not to be jabbed. What I'm saying is...i would observe that those who are jabbed are more likely to be spreading it because they feel immortal. Either way I'm not sure how helpful it is to have a narrative that allows a tiny percentage of people to be bastardised as selfish, careless, foolish, spreaders, dangerous etc.. It could be that they are none of those things. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Vaccine efficacies are based on risk reduction, the higher your risk the better the risk reduction, the lower your risk the lower the risk reduction.
ONS figures show a hospitalisation rate of 7 per 100k in the 0-18 age range.
Deaths can't be measured at per 100k and get moved to per million it's roughly 4-5 per million.
Based on this risk you'd have to ask yourself what's the efficacy of the risk reduction?.
Now cases are indeed where the lesser lies, you will indeed get less cases with vaccinated to unvaccinated roughly around 50% less.
The JVCIs conclusion was it was unjustifiable to expect this group to inherit risk from vaccination to save over 80 year olds(whom still make up most deaths) for a few extra years of life, every 80+ year old I've asked about this actually agreed with that statement."
But that's not what the latest covid vaccine report data shows. Which is that above age 30. More cases have been reported for people vaccinated than are unvaccinated. In 40 to 49 age group the vaccinated are twice as likely to have been infected. That's for the weeks 36 to 39. Next report is due out tomorrow. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Consent forms are going out to parents of school children for the vaccine.
To quote the jvci, “there is only a small advantage for children to receive the vaccine”.
If this is the case, why are the government pushing for these vaccinations? I’m guessing that it is to try and reduce the spread from the young to the older groups.
I’d love to hearyour thoughts, especially parents who are facing this. Would you vaccinate a healthy child?
All your doubts will be answered if you look for a letter of liability, that is a letter stating the pharm company /school/ nhs/ government, somebody, anybody will take full responsibility and liability for any adverse effect from the jab"
The pharma companies have already been given assurance from the government that they will not be held liable for any adverse effects from the jab! Unlike when thalidomide or measles jab was introduced that cost 10's of millions in each country in compensation it was used in but people are still suffering from the after effects of it unfortunately |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Consent forms are going out to parents of school children for the vaccine.
To quote the jvci, “there is only a small advantage for children to receive the vaccine”.
If this is the case, why are the government pushing for these vaccinations? I’m guessing that it is to try and reduce the spread from the young to the older groups.
I’d love to hearyour thoughts, especially parents who are facing this. Would you vaccinate a healthy child?
All your doubts will be answered if you look for a letter of liability, that is a letter stating the pharm company /school/ nhs/ government, somebody, anybody will take full responsibility and liability for any adverse effect from the jab
The pharma companies have already been given assurance from the government that they will not be held liable for any adverse effects from the jab! Unlike when thalidomide or measles jab was introduced that cost 10's of millions in each country in compensation it was used in but people are still suffering from the after effects of it unfortunately "
Thalidomide is not a vaccine and the mistake happened 60 years ago science has moved on a lot since then, they had no idea about the effects of chirality back them. The measles vaccine has been a massive success and no great scandal apart from grifters like Wakefield trying to make money spreading BS. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Vaccine efficacies are based on risk reduction, the higher your risk the better the risk reduction, the lower your risk the lower the risk reduction.
ONS figures show a hospitalisation rate of 7 per 100k in the 0-18 age range.
Deaths can't be measured at per 100k and get moved to per million it's roughly 4-5 per million.
Based on this risk you'd have to ask yourself what's the efficacy of the risk reduction?.
Now cases are indeed where the lesser lies, you will indeed get less cases with vaccinated to unvaccinated roughly around 50% less.
The JVCIs conclusion was it was unjustifiable to expect this group to inherit risk from vaccination to save over 80 year olds(whom still make up most deaths) for a few extra years of life, every 80+ year old I've asked about this actually agreed with that statement.
But that's not what the latest covid vaccine report data shows. Which is that above age 30. More cases have been reported for people vaccinated than are unvaccinated. In 40 to 49 age group the vaccinated are twice as likely to have been infected. That's for the weeks 36 to 39. Next report is due out tomorrow. "
.
That's because there above age 30 and this thread and my point was aimed and specifically said aged 0-18!, are you trying to conflate my statement by saying this isn't true and then completely use figures that are nothing to do with what I wrote?, it would appear you are.
If you vaccinate 50 million people with a transmission rate reduced by around 35% due to vaccination, how many cases would you expect to the 5 million left unvaccinated with a higher transmission rate due to being unvaccinated but only being 5 million compared to 50 million?.
This really isn't rocket science.
I will also add that the vast majority left unvaccinated are almost exclusively under 21 and due to having a far better and effective immune system will almost certainly have a lower transmission rate due to innate immunity.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Vaccine efficacies are based on risk reduction, the higher your risk the better the risk reduction, the lower your risk the lower the risk reduction.
ONS figures show a hospitalisation rate of 7 per 100k in the 0-18 age range.
Deaths can't be measured at per 100k and get moved to per million it's roughly 4-5 per million.
Based on this risk you'd have to ask yourself what's the efficacy of the risk reduction?.
Now cases are indeed where the lesser lies, you will indeed get less cases with vaccinated to unvaccinated roughly around 50% less.
The JVCIs conclusion was it was unjustifiable to expect this group to inherit risk from vaccination to save over 80 year olds(whom still make up most deaths) for a few extra years of life, every 80+ year old I've asked about this actually agreed with that statement.
But that's not what the latest covid vaccine report data shows. Which is that above age 30. More cases have been reported for people vaccinated than are unvaccinated. In 40 to 49 age group the vaccinated are twice as likely to have been infected. That's for the weeks 36 to 39. Next report is due out tomorrow. "
as above, you cant conclude twice as likely when you cant control for testing frequency. Reporting having it isn't the same as having it.
There is also the question of if this is the right measure to look at ... I'd be more inclined to focus on hospitalisations or deaths. .
I've also list track why we are looking at 40yo in this thread !!! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Consent forms are going out to parents of school children for the vaccine.
To quote the jvci, “there is only a small advantage for children to receive the vaccine”.
If this is the case, why are the government pushing for these vaccinations? I’m guessing that it is to try and reduce the spread from the young to the older groups.
I’d love to hearyour thoughts, especially parents who are facing this. Would you vaccinate a healthy child?
All your doubts will be answered if you look for a letter of liability, that is a letter stating the pharm company /school/ nhs/ government, somebody, anybody will take full responsibility and liability for any adverse effect from the jab
The pharma companies have already been given assurance from the government that they will not be held liable for any adverse effects from the jab! Unlike when thalidomide or measles jab was introduced that cost 10's of millions in each country in compensation it was used in but people are still suffering from the after effects of it unfortunately
Thalidomide is not a vaccine and the mistake happened 60 years ago science has moved on a lot since then, they had no idea about the effects of chirality back them. The measles vaccine has been a massive success and no great scandal apart from grifters like Wakefield trying to make money spreading BS."
This "mistake" that happened 60 years ago was a rapidly introduced drug, which was, predominantly, produced by GMBH. This company then became Pfizer, a coincidence?? I think not... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Consent forms are going out to parents of school children for the vaccine.
To quote the jvci, “there is only a small advantage for children to receive the vaccine”.
If this is the case, why are the government pushing for these vaccinations? I’m guessing that it is to try and reduce the spread from the young to the older groups.
I’d love to hearyour thoughts, especially parents who are facing this. Would you vaccinate a healthy child?
All your doubts will be answered if you look for a letter of liability, that is a letter stating the pharm company /school/ nhs/ government, somebody, anybody will take full responsibility and liability for any adverse effect from the jab
The pharma companies have already been given assurance from the government that they will not be held liable for any adverse effects from the jab! Unlike when thalidomide or measles jab was introduced that cost 10's of millions in each country in compensation it was used in but people are still suffering from the after effects of it unfortunately
Thalidomide is not a vaccine and the mistake happened 60 years ago science has moved on a lot since then, they had no idea about the effects of chirality back them. The measles vaccine has been a massive success and no great scandal apart from grifters like Wakefield trying to make money spreading BS.
This "mistake" that happened 60 years ago was a rapidly introduced drug, which was, predominantly, produced by GMBH. This company then became Pfizer, a coincidence?? I think not... "
Incorrect. Thalidomide wasn't quickly introduced the problem came about when it was used for something it wasn't intended. The drug itself wasn't the problem, it is still used today for lots of things,it was the lack of understanding of something called chivalry. Gmbh means limited company in German it's not the name of the company. Pfizer have been going for a long time and have nothing to do with thalidomide. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Consent forms are going out to parents of school children for the vaccine.
To quote the jvci, “there is only a small advantage for children to receive the vaccine”.
If this is the case, why are the government pushing for these vaccinations? I’m guessing that it is to try and reduce the spread from the young to the older groups.
I’d love to hearyour thoughts, especially parents who are facing this. Would you vaccinate a healthy child?
All your doubts will be answered if you look for a letter of liability, that is a letter stating the pharm company /school/ nhs/ government, somebody, anybody will take full responsibility and liability for any adverse effect from the jab
The pharma companies have already been given assurance from the government that they will not be held liable for any adverse effects from the jab! Unlike when thalidomide or measles jab was introduced that cost 10's of millions in each country in compensation it was used in but people are still suffering from the after effects of it unfortunately
Thalidomide is not a vaccine and the mistake happened 60 years ago science has moved on a lot since then, they had no idea about the effects of chirality back them. The measles vaccine has been a massive success and no great scandal apart from grifters like Wakefield trying to make money spreading BS.
This "mistake" that happened 60 years ago was a rapidly introduced drug, which was, predominantly, produced by GMBH. This company then became Pfizer, a coincidence?? I think not... "
The company did not then became Pfizer and it is not a coincidence what is claimed here is false. But it adds to the narrative of a proper conspiracy theory. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Over the last two weeks I’ve been taking vaccines to schools every day and hundreds of teenagers have had their vaccinations, most parents seem to be asking their children if they want it and I think that’s the way to do it, ask them talk about with them |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Vaccine efficacies are based on risk reduction, the higher your risk the better the risk reduction, the lower your risk the lower the risk reduction.
ONS figures show a hospitalisation rate of 7 per 100k in the 0-18 age range.
Deaths can't be measured at per 100k and get moved to per million it's roughly 4-5 per million.
Based on this risk you'd have to ask yourself what's the efficacy of the risk reduction?.
Now cases are indeed where the lesser lies, you will indeed get less cases with vaccinated to unvaccinated roughly around 50% less.
The JVCIs conclusion was it was unjustifiable to expect this group to inherit risk from vaccination to save over 80 year olds(whom still make up most deaths) for a few extra years of life, every 80+ year old I've asked about this actually agreed with that statement."
That’s interesting. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Consent forms are going out to parents of school children for the vaccine.
To quote the jvci, “there is only a small advantage for children to receive the vaccine”.
If this is the case, why are the government pushing for these vaccinations? I’m guessing that it is to try and reduce the spread from the young to the older groups.
I’d love to hearyour thoughts, especially parents who are facing this. Would you vaccinate a healthy child?
I guess they are sending out consent forms to give people a choice.
Is choice a bad thing ?"
Of course not. Choice is a good thing. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Consent forms are going out to parents of school children for the vaccine.
To quote the jvci, “there is only a small advantage for children to receive the vaccine”.
If this is the case, why are the government pushing for these vaccinations? I’m guessing that it is to try and reduce the spread from the young to the older groups.
I’d love to hearyour thoughts, especially parents who are facing this. Would you vaccinate a healthy child?
All your doubts will be answered if you look for a letter of liability, that is a letter stating the pharm company /school/ nhs/ government, somebody, anybody will take full responsibility and liability for any adverse effect from the jab
The pharma companies have already been given assurance from the government that they will not be held liable for any adverse effects from the jab! Unlike when thalidomide or measles jab was introduced that cost 10's of millions in each country in compensation it was used in but people are still suffering from the after effects of it unfortunately
Thalidomide is not a vaccine and the mistake happened 60 years ago science has moved on a lot since then, they had no idea about the effects of chirality back them. The measles vaccine has been a massive success and no great scandal apart from grifters like Wakefield trying to make money spreading BS.
This "mistake" that happened 60 years ago was a rapidly introduced drug, which was, predominantly, produced by GMBH. This company then became Pfizer, a coincidence?? I think not...
The company did not then became Pfizer and it is not a coincidence what is claimed here is false. But it adds to the narrative of a proper conspiracy theory. "
I wonder the overlap between those who mention thalidomide and those who promote invectamin .... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Consent forms are going out to parents of school children for the vaccine.
To quote the jvci, “there is only a small advantage for children to receive the vaccine”.
If this is the case, why are the government pushing for these vaccinations? I’m guessing that it is to try and reduce the spread from the young to the older groups.
I’d love to hearyour thoughts, especially parents who are facing this. Would you vaccinate a healthy child?
All your doubts will be answered if you look for a letter of liability, that is a letter stating the pharm company /school/ nhs/ government, somebody, anybody will take full responsibility and liability for any adverse effect from the jab
The pharma companies have already been given assurance from the government that they will not be held liable for any adverse effects from the jab! Unlike when thalidomide or measles jab was introduced that cost 10's of millions in each country in compensation it was used in but people are still suffering from the after effects of it unfortunately
Thalidomide is not a vaccine and the mistake happened 60 years ago science has moved on a lot since then, they had no idea about the effects of chirality back them. The measles vaccine has been a massive success and no great scandal apart from grifters like Wakefield trying to make money spreading BS.
This "mistake" that happened 60 years ago was a rapidly introduced drug, which was, predominantly, produced by GMBH. This company then became Pfizer, a coincidence?? I think not...
The company did not then became Pfizer and it is not a coincidence what is claimed here is false. But it adds to the narrative of a proper conspiracy theory. I wonder the overlap between those who mention thalidomide and those who promote invectamin ...."
Conspiracy theories to one side, I think people may reference the thalidomide scandal as as example to justify not taking drugs blindly trusting the manufacturers. Thalidomide was used to treat morning sickness during pregnancy. None of the expectant mothers knew the harm it was doing to their un born children.
Thankfully, regulation of drugs has improved since then, some of the improvements were a direct result of the thalidomide scandal. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Vaccine efficacies are based on risk reduction, the higher your risk the better the risk reduction, the lower your risk the lower the risk reduction.
ONS figures show a hospitalisation rate of 7 per 100k in the 0-18 age range.
Deaths can't be measured at per 100k and get moved to per million it's roughly 4-5 per million.
Based on this risk you'd have to ask yourself what's the efficacy of the risk reduction?.
Now cases are indeed where the lesser lies, you will indeed get less cases with vaccinated to unvaccinated roughly around 50% less.
The JVCIs conclusion was it was unjustifiable to expect this group to inherit risk from vaccination to save over 80 year olds(whom still make up most deaths) for a few extra years of life, every 80+ year old I've asked about this actually agreed with that statement.
But that's not what the latest covid vaccine report data shows. Which is that above age 30. More cases have been reported for people vaccinated than are unvaccinated. In 40 to 49 age group the vaccinated are twice as likely to have been infected. That's for the weeks 36 to 39. Next report is due out tomorrow. "
Given nearly 90% are vaccinated (and the strongly anti vaccine brigade simply won’t be getting tested) its should Coe as no surprise the majority of reported cases are in vaccinated people. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
