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New zealand mandates vaccines for heath workers and teachers.
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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
What do you think of the latest news from new zealand that health workers and teachers have to be vaccinated in order to continue to work, so basically it is "no jab, no job".
High risk workers in the health and disability sector to be fully vaccinated by 1 december, 2021, and to receive their first dose by 30 October.
School and early learning staff and support people who have contact with children and students to be fully vaccinated by 1 January, 2022, and to receive their first dose by 15 November.
They say that "while most people working in these sectors are already fully or partially vaccinated we cant leave anything to chance and are making it mandatory".
Could we see this catch on to other countries too? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Worked out well for Southwest Airlines in USA last weekend. Dozens of cancellations due to 'bad weather'....that only seemed to effect SWA and not that many others  |
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"Only governments could be that stupid to fire health workers during a Pandemic.  "
A quick Google brings up the UK Health and Safety guide to immunisations required for healthcare staff. It says:
“ Routine vaccination
All staff should be up to date with their routine immunisations, e.g. tetanus, diphtheria, polio and MMR. The MMR vaccine is especially important in the context of the ability of staff to transmit measles or rubella infections to vulnerable groups. ”
I don’t think it is either (a) new behaviour or (b) even unusual for healthcare staff to have a range of vaccinations. Struggling to see why this rule would be relaxed during a global pandemic for the very disease it is solving for.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What do you think of the latest news from new zealand that health workers and teachers have to be vaccinated in order to continue to work, so basically it is "no jab, no job".
High risk workers in the health and disability sector to be fully vaccinated by 1 december, 2021, and to receive their first dose by 30 October.
School and early learning staff and support people who have contact with children and students to be fully vaccinated by 1 January, 2022, and to receive their first dose by 15 November.
They say that "while most people working in these sectors are already fully or partially vaccinated we cant leave anything to chance and are making it mandatory".
Could we see this catch on to other countries too?"
Stupid and not surprising. Hope they have a teacher shortage 
This has to stop. Absolute lunacy. Every other jab you have a choice and are not segregated or discriminated against in society, except this one.
If governments truly cared about us they wouldn't be willing to cut our money supply in order to " save you ".
Unhealthy foods wouldn't be legal.
Obesity would be non existent and exercise and healthy eating would be mandatory.
No biggie, when i return home i'll just home school my kids with private tutors, theirs always a solution. Not having my future kids in establishments with forced medical procedures, or schools where your kids can be jabbed without your consent |
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"Only governments could be that stupid to fire health workers during a Pandemic.
A quick Google brings up the UK Health and Safety guide to immunisations required for healthcare staff. It says:
“ Routine vaccination
All staff should be up to date with their routine immunisations, e.g. tetanus, diphtheria, polio and MMR. The MMR vaccine is especially important in the context of the ability of staff to transmit measles or rubella infections to vulnerable groups. ”
I don’t think it is either (a) new behaviour or (b) even unusual for healthcare staff to have a range of vaccinations. Struggling to see why this rule would be relaxed during a global pandemic for the very disease it is solving for.
"
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"Also California has just passed a law that forbids company's from forcing people to have a vaccine so goes both ways"
I suspect you've got the wrong state, given that California has vaccine mandates... |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Also California has just passed a law that forbids company's from forcing people to have a vaccine so goes both ways
I suspect you've got the wrong state, given that California has vaccine mandates..."
If so I stand corrected |
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"Also California has just passed a law that forbids company's from forcing people to have a vaccine so goes both ways
I suspect you've got the wrong state, given that California has vaccine mandates...
If so I stand corrected "
It was probably Floriduh or Texas. |
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"Only governments could be that stupid to fire health workers during a Pandemic.
A quick Google brings up the UK Health and Safety guide to immunisations required for healthcare staff. It says:
“ Routine vaccination
All staff should be up to date with their routine immunisations, e.g. tetanus, diphtheria, polio and MMR. The MMR vaccine is especially important in the context of the ability of staff to transmit measles or rubella infections to vulnerable groups. ”
I don’t think it is either (a) new behaviour or (b) even unusual for healthcare staff to have a range of vaccinations. Struggling to see why this rule would be relaxed during a global pandemic for the very disease it is solving for.
"
Fine, fire a quarter of your healthcare staff to spite your nose.
What's the worse that could happen. |
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Every health worker I know was required to have TB, MMR and most had Hep B vaccines. This is younger people working in care and in hospitals.
When my mother trained as a nurse in the 60s there was no choice. You either had vaccines for polio, TB and Hep B or you weren't going to be admitted to even be trained.
Why do people act as if requiring healthcare workers are immunised against communicable illnesses is something new? |
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My wife goes in for minor surgery tomorrow. She's CEV to covid as well as immunocompromised and has other health issues. A cold puts her in hospital.
I'd be utterly horrified if the surgical team, nurses and other staff she encounters were not vaccinated against various diseases including covid.
It's nothing new. |
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"Only governments could be that stupid to fire health workers during a Pandemic.
A quick Google brings up the UK Health and Safety guide to immunisations required for healthcare staff. It says:
“ Routine vaccination
All staff should be up to date with their routine immunisations, e.g. tetanus, diphtheria, polio and MMR. The MMR vaccine is especially important in the context of the ability of staff to transmit measles or rubella infections to vulnerable groups. ”
I don’t think it is either (a) new behaviour or (b) even unusual for healthcare staff to have a range of vaccinations. Struggling to see why this rule would be relaxed during a global pandemic for the very disease it is solving for.
Fine, fire a quarter of your healthcare staff to spite your nose.
What's the worse that could happen."
Absolutely. Who needs standards?
Duty of care to patients and students? Hideous red tape. Probably the EU did it. Shun.
Remove continued education. Hell, remove educational requirements. Believing in science or patient/student welfare is superfluous, why not everything else, too?
Bums in seats. Quantity over quality.
Could probably save the NHS and education department a packet too, put in ex offenders with a GSCE and an STI, hand them some baby oil, crack on. |
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"Only governments could be that stupid to fire health workers during a Pandemic.
A quick Google brings up the UK Health and Safety guide to immunisations required for healthcare staff. It says:
“ Routine vaccination
All staff should be up to date with their routine immunisations, e.g. tetanus, diphtheria, polio and MMR. The MMR vaccine is especially important in the context of the ability of staff to transmit measles or rubella infections to vulnerable groups. ”
I don’t think it is either (a) new behaviour or (b) even unusual for healthcare staff to have a range of vaccinations. Struggling to see why this rule would be relaxed during a global pandemic for the very disease it is solving for.
Fine, fire a quarter of your healthcare staff to spite your nose.
What's the worse that could happen.
Absolutely. Who needs standards?
Duty of care to patients and students? Hideous red tape. Probably the EU did it. Shun.
Remove continued education. Hell, remove educational requirements. Believing in science or patient/student welfare is superfluous, why not everything else, too?
Bums in seats. Quantity over quality.
Could probably save the NHS and education department a packet too, put in ex offenders with a GSCE and an STI, hand them some baby oil, crack on."
.
That will probably be the governments next move, brilliant strategy |
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"Only governments could be that stupid to fire health workers during a Pandemic.
A quick Google brings up the UK Health and Safety guide to immunisations required for healthcare staff. It says:
“ Routine vaccination
All staff should be up to date with their routine immunisations, e.g. tetanus, diphtheria, polio and MMR. The MMR vaccine is especially important in the context of the ability of staff to transmit measles or rubella infections to vulnerable groups. ”
I don’t think it is either (a) new behaviour or (b) even unusual for healthcare staff to have a range of vaccinations. Struggling to see why this rule would be relaxed during a global pandemic for the very disease it is solving for.
Fine, fire a quarter of your healthcare staff to spite your nose.
What's the worse that could happen.
Absolutely. Who needs standards?
Duty of care to patients and students? Hideous red tape. Probably the EU did it. Shun.
Remove continued education. Hell, remove educational requirements. Believing in science or patient/student welfare is superfluous, why not everything else, too?
Bums in seats. Quantity over quality.
Could probably save the NHS and education department a packet too, put in ex offenders with a GSCE and an STI, hand them some baby oil, crack on..
That will probably be the governments next move, brilliant strategy "
I'm not suggesting it. I have the radical idea that people working with the vulnerable (including children) should be held to high standards. That we owe vulnerable people better than whoever we can drag off the street. And I'm sorry, but I regard vaccine refusers (except strict medical exemption) as being as good as anyone else you could drag off the street. Billions of doses have been administered now. |
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"My wife goes in for minor surgery tomorrow. She's CEV to covid as well as immunocompromised and has other health issues. A cold puts her in hospital.
I'd be utterly horrified if the surgical team, nurses and other staff she encounters were not vaccinated against various diseases including covid.
It's nothing new. "
Given the severity of your vulnerability I think I would be happier with knowing the health care team are covid tested negative
|
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"
I'm not suggesting it. I have the radical idea that people working with the vulnerable (including children) should be held to high standards. That we owe vulnerable people better than whoever we can drag off the street. And I'm sorry, but I regard vaccine refusers (except strict medical exemption) as being as good as anyone else you could drag off the street. Billions of doses have been administered now. "
I work in a school. With vulnerable children. For that, I accept being vetted and having an enhanced DBS regularly. It's a pain in the arse but I recognise it's a necessary step to help keep the kids safer.
I'm of the opinion that it is highly desirable that people who work in schools should also be jabbed against covid, to help prevent spread. As it happens I've been double Pfizered but if it were required for the job and I'd but yet been offered it, I'd not have hesitated.
Certain professions come with specific responsibilities and duties of care. |
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"
I'm not suggesting it. I have the radical idea that people working with the vulnerable (including children) should be held to high standards. That we owe vulnerable people better than whoever we can drag off the street. And I'm sorry, but I regard vaccine refusers (except strict medical exemption) as being as good as anyone else you could drag off the street. Billions of doses have been administered now.
I work in a school. With vulnerable children. For that, I accept being vetted and having an enhanced DBS regularly. It's a pain in the arse but I recognise it's a necessary step to help keep the kids safer.
I'm of the opinion that it is highly desirable that people who work in schools should also be jabbed against covid, to help prevent spread. As it happens I've been double Pfizered but if it were required for the job and I'd but yet been offered it, I'd not have hesitated.
Certain professions come with specific responsibilities and duties of care. "
Absolutely. |
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"Every health worker I know was required to have TB, MMR and most had Hep B vaccines. This is younger people working in care and in hospitals.
When my mother trained as a nurse in the 60s there was no choice. You either had vaccines for polio, TB and Hep B or you weren't going to be admitted to even be trained.
Why do people act as if requiring healthcare workers are immunised against communicable illnesses is something new?"
This is true I work in a GP surgery all new staff are given vaccines for hep etc and their previous vaccination record is checked and they are given others if they are not upto date.
If you refuse you don't get the job. It is done to protect both staff and patients. It doesn't only apply to clinical staff it includes all the admin staff too. |
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"Only governments could be that stupid to fire health workers during a Pandemic.
A quick Google brings up the UK Health and Safety guide to immunisations required for healthcare staff. It says:
“ Routine vaccination
All staff should be up to date with their routine immunisations, e.g. tetanus, diphtheria, polio and MMR. The MMR vaccine is especially important in the context of the ability of staff to transmit measles or rubella infections to vulnerable groups. ”
I don’t think it is either (a) new behaviour or (b) even unusual for healthcare staff to have a range of vaccinations. Struggling to see why this rule would be relaxed during a global pandemic for the very disease it is solving for.
Fine, fire a quarter of your healthcare staff to spite your nose.
What's the worse that could happen.
Absolutely. Who needs standards?
Duty of care to patients and students? Hideous red tape. Probably the EU did it. Shun.
Remove continued education. Hell, remove educational requirements. Believing in science or patient/student welfare is superfluous, why not everything else, too?
Bums in seats. Quantity over quality.
Could probably save the NHS and education department a packet too, put in ex offenders with a GSCE and an STI, hand them some baby oil, crack on..
That will probably be the governments next move, brilliant strategy
I'm not suggesting it. I have the radical idea that people working with the vulnerable (including children) should be held to high standards. That we owe vulnerable people better than whoever we can drag off the street. And I'm sorry, but I regard vaccine refusers (except strict medical exemption) as being as good as anyone else you could drag off the street. Billions of doses have been administered now. "
You may not have noticed but they've just fired tens of thousands in New York because the other side don't want to be vaccinated!.
An argument for another day perhaps but during a Pandemic you just look like an authoritarian despot which makes the other side dig their heels in even more.
Given that those other vaccines stop transmission by 99% and this one by 50%, it doesn't even look like a great argument.
|
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"Only governments could be that stupid to fire health workers during a Pandemic.
A quick Google brings up the UK Health and Safety guide to immunisations required for healthcare staff. It says:
“ Routine vaccination
All staff should be up to date with their routine immunisations, e.g. tetanus, diphtheria, polio and MMR. The MMR vaccine is especially important in the context of the ability of staff to transmit measles or rubella infections to vulnerable groups. ”
I don’t think it is either (a) new behaviour or (b) even unusual for healthcare staff to have a range of vaccinations. Struggling to see why this rule would be relaxed during a global pandemic for the very disease it is solving for.
Fine, fire a quarter of your healthcare staff to spite your nose.
What's the worse that could happen.
Absolutely. Who needs standards?
Duty of care to patients and students? Hideous red tape. Probably the EU did it. Shun.
Remove continued education. Hell, remove educational requirements. Believing in science or patient/student welfare is superfluous, why not everything else, too?
Bums in seats. Quantity over quality.
Could probably save the NHS and education department a packet too, put in ex offenders with a GSCE and an STI, hand them some baby oil, crack on..
That will probably be the governments next move, brilliant strategy
I'm not suggesting it. I have the radical idea that people working with the vulnerable (including children) should be held to high standards. That we owe vulnerable people better than whoever we can drag off the street. And I'm sorry, but I regard vaccine refusers (except strict medical exemption) as being as good as anyone else you could drag off the street. Billions of doses have been administered now.
You may not have noticed but they've just fired tens of thousands in New York because the other side don't want to be vaccinated!.
An argument for another day perhaps but during a Pandemic you just look like an authoritarian despot which makes the other side dig their heels in even more.
Given that those other vaccines stop transmission by 99% and this one by 50%, it doesn't even look like a great argument.
"
So requiring patient/student safety and welfare standards that have existed for decades makes one an authoritarian despot.
If you want to run with that argument then you do you  |
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"Only governments could be that stupid to fire health workers during a Pandemic.
A quick Google brings up the UK Health and Safety guide to immunisations required for healthcare staff. It says:
“ Routine vaccination
All staff should be up to date with their routine immunisations, e.g. tetanus, diphtheria, polio and MMR. The MMR vaccine is especially important in the context of the ability of staff to transmit measles or rubella infections to vulnerable groups. ”
I don’t think it is either (a) new behaviour or (b) even unusual for healthcare staff to have a range of vaccinations. Struggling to see why this rule would be relaxed during a global pandemic for the very disease it is solving for.
Fine, fire a quarter of your healthcare staff to spite your nose.
What's the worse that could happen.
Absolutely. Who needs standards?
Duty of care to patients and students? Hideous red tape. Probably the EU did it. Shun.
Remove continued education. Hell, remove educational requirements. Believing in science or patient/student welfare is superfluous, why not everything else, too?
Bums in seats. Quantity over quality.
Could probably save the NHS and education department a packet too, put in ex offenders with a GSCE and an STI, hand them some baby oil, crack on..
That will probably be the governments next move, brilliant strategy
I'm not suggesting it. I have the radical idea that people working with the vulnerable (including children) should be held to high standards. That we owe vulnerable people better than whoever we can drag off the street. And I'm sorry, but I regard vaccine refusers (except strict medical exemption) as being as good as anyone else you could drag off the street. Billions of doses have been administered now.
You may not have noticed but they've just fired tens of thousands in New York because the other side don't want to be vaccinated!.
An argument for another day perhaps but during a Pandemic you just look like an authoritarian despot which makes the other side dig their heels in even more.
Given that those other vaccines stop transmission by 99% and this one by 50%, it doesn't even look like a great argument.
So requiring patient/student safety and welfare standards that have existed for decades makes one an authoritarian despot.
If you want to run with that argument then you do you "
What would you say to the other 50% of patients passed on by the double vaccinated!.
Or the patients who die from something else because there was nobody to care for them?.
You do you is just a lame excuse for somebody unwilling to compromise to get a job done. |
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This is a shit vaccine for stopping cases!.
Just in case your unaware you can look at most countries with high vaccination rates and see loads and loads of cases.
It's good at stopping hospitalisation and great at stopping deaths.
Cases though, not so good. |
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"This is a shit vaccine for stopping cases!.
Just in case your unaware you can look at most countries with high vaccination rates and see loads and loads of cases.
It's good at stopping hospitalisation and great at stopping deaths.
Cases though, not so good."
Yes, it's a very shit vaccine for stopping cases. Just like *all* of the vaccines except maybe HPV. None of them prevent infection. |
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"Only governments could be that stupid to fire health workers during a Pandemic.
A quick Google brings up the UK Health and Safety guide to immunisations required for healthcare staff. It says:
“ Routine vaccination
All staff should be up to date with their routine immunisations, e.g. tetanus, diphtheria, polio and MMR. The MMR vaccine is especially important in the context of the ability of staff to transmit measles or rubella infections to vulnerable groups. ”
I don’t think it is either (a) new behaviour or (b) even unusual for healthcare staff to have a range of vaccinations. Struggling to see why this rule would be relaxed during a global pandemic for the very disease it is solving for.
Fine, fire a quarter of your healthcare staff to spite your nose.
What's the worse that could happen.
Absolutely. Who needs standards?
Duty of care to patients and students? Hideous red tape. Probably the EU did it. Shun.
Remove continued education. Hell, remove educational requirements. Believing in science or patient/student welfare is superfluous, why not everything else, too?
Bums in seats. Quantity over quality.
Could probably save the NHS and education department a packet too, put in ex offenders with a GSCE and an STI, hand them some baby oil, crack on..
That will probably be the governments next move, brilliant strategy
I'm not suggesting it. I have the radical idea that people working with the vulnerable (including children) should be held to high standards. That we owe vulnerable people better than whoever we can drag off the street. And I'm sorry, but I regard vaccine refusers (except strict medical exemption) as being as good as anyone else you could drag off the street. Billions of doses have been administered now.
You may not have noticed but they've just fired tens of thousands in New York because the other side don't want to be vaccinated!.
An argument for another day perhaps but during a Pandemic you just look like an authoritarian despot which makes the other side dig their heels in even more.
Given that those other vaccines stop transmission by 99% and this one by 50%, it doesn't even look like a great argument.
So requiring patient/student safety and welfare standards that have existed for decades makes one an authoritarian despot.
If you want to run with that argument then you do you
What would you say to the other 50% of patients passed on by the double vaccinated!.
Or the patients who die from something else because there was nobody to care for them?.
You do you is just a lame excuse for somebody unwilling to compromise to get a job done."
I'm afraid I have nothing constructive to add to anyone who thinks that standards which have existed for decades are despotic. |
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"Only governments could be that stupid to fire health workers during a Pandemic.
A quick Google brings up the UK Health and Safety guide to immunisations required for healthcare staff. It says:
“ Routine vaccination
All staff should be up to date with their routine immunisations, e.g. tetanus, diphtheria, polio and MMR. The MMR vaccine is especially important in the context of the ability of staff to transmit measles or rubella infections to vulnerable groups. ”
I don’t think it is either (a) new behaviour or (b) even unusual for healthcare staff to have a range of vaccinations. Struggling to see why this rule would be relaxed during a global pandemic for the very disease it is solving for.
Fine, fire a quarter of your healthcare staff to spite your nose.
What's the worse that could happen.
Absolutely. Who needs standards?
Duty of care to patients and students? Hideous red tape. Probably the EU did it. Shun.
Remove continued education. Hell, remove educational requirements. Believing in science or patient/student welfare is superfluous, why not everything else, too?
Bums in seats. Quantity over quality.
Could probably save the NHS and education department a packet too, put in ex offenders with a GSCE and an STI, hand them some baby oil, crack on..
That will probably be the governments next move, brilliant strategy
I'm not suggesting it. I have the radical idea that people working with the vulnerable (including children) should be held to high standards. That we owe vulnerable people better than whoever we can drag off the street. And I'm sorry, but I regard vaccine refusers (except strict medical exemption) as being as good as anyone else you could drag off the street. Billions of doses have been administered now.
You may not have noticed but they've just fired tens of thousands in New York because the other side don't want to be vaccinated!.
An argument for another day perhaps but during a Pandemic you just look like an authoritarian despot which makes the other side dig their heels in even more.
Given that those other vaccines stop transmission by 99% and this one by 50%, it doesn't even look like a great argument.
So requiring patient/student safety and welfare standards that have existed for decades makes one an authoritarian despot.
If you want to run with that argument then you do you
What would you say to the other 50% of patients passed on by the double vaccinated!.
Or the patients who die from something else because there was nobody to care for them?.
You do you is just a lame excuse for somebody unwilling to compromise to get a job done.
I'm afraid I have nothing constructive to add to anyone who thinks that standards which have existed for decades are despotic."
What’s your plan to sort the shortage of 40,000 care workers expected to leave?
What excuse will you use when it’s not just care jobs, but lots of other jobs too? |
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"Every health worker I know was required to have TB, MMR and most had Hep B vaccines. This is younger people working in care and in hospitals.
When my mother trained as a nurse in the 60s there was no choice. You either had vaccines for polio, TB and Hep B or you weren't going to be admitted to even be trained.
Why do people act as if requiring healthcare workers are immunised against communicable illnesses is something new?"
Exactly! There are some people who seem as if they have just woken up to the real world we've all lived in.
Vaccinations are the real worlds key tool that helps to protect billions of us from devastating illnesses. Most reasonable people just do their bit to ensure that others are given good care and not needlessly exposed to unnecessary risks, including costing them their life. |
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"Only governments could be that stupid to fire health workers during a Pandemic.
A quick Google brings up the UK Health and Safety guide to immunisations required for healthcare staff. It says:
“ Routine vaccination
All staff should be up to date with their routine immunisations, e.g. tetanus, diphtheria, polio and MMR. The MMR vaccine is especially important in the context of the ability of staff to transmit measles or rubella infections to vulnerable groups. ”
I don’t think it is either (a) new behaviour or (b) even unusual for healthcare staff to have a range of vaccinations. Struggling to see why this rule would be relaxed during a global pandemic for the very disease it is solving for.
Fine, fire a quarter of your healthcare staff to spite your nose.
What's the worse that could happen.
Absolutely. Who needs standards?
Duty of care to patients and students? Hideous red tape. Probably the EU did it. Shun.
Remove continued education. Hell, remove educational requirements. Believing in science or patient/student welfare is superfluous, why not everything else, too?
Bums in seats. Quantity over quality.
Could probably save the NHS and education department a packet too, put in ex offenders with a GSCE and an STI, hand them some baby oil, crack on..
That will probably be the governments next move, brilliant strategy
I'm not suggesting it. I have the radical idea that people working with the vulnerable (including children) should be held to high standards. That we owe vulnerable people better than whoever we can drag off the street. And I'm sorry, but I regard vaccine refusers (except strict medical exemption) as being as good as anyone else you could drag off the street. Billions of doses have been administered now.
You may not have noticed but they've just fired tens of thousands in New York because the other side don't want to be vaccinated!.
An argument for another day perhaps but during a Pandemic you just look like an authoritarian despot which makes the other side dig their heels in even more.
Given that those other vaccines stop transmission by 99% and this one by 50%, it doesn't even look like a great argument.
So requiring patient/student safety and welfare standards that have existed for decades makes one an authoritarian despot.
If you want to run with that argument then you do you
What would you say to the other 50% of patients passed on by the double vaccinated!.
Or the patients who die from something else because there was nobody to care for them?.
You do you is just a lame excuse for somebody unwilling to compromise to get a job done.
I'm afraid I have nothing constructive to add to anyone who thinks that standards which have existed for decades are despotic.
What’s your plan to sort the shortage of 40,000 care workers expected to leave?
What excuse will you use when it’s not just care jobs, but lots of other jobs too? "
Are you anti-vaccination for Covid? |
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"Only governments could be that stupid to fire health workers during a Pandemic.
A quick Google brings up the UK Health and Safety guide to immunisations required for healthcare staff. It says:
“ Routine vaccination
All staff should be up to date with their routine immunisations, e.g. tetanus, diphtheria, polio and MMR. The MMR vaccine is especially important in the context of the ability of staff to transmit measles or rubella infections to vulnerable groups. ”
I don’t think it is either (a) new behaviour or (b) even unusual for healthcare staff to have a range of vaccinations. Struggling to see why this rule would be relaxed during a global pandemic for the very disease it is solving for.
Fine, fire a quarter of your healthcare staff to spite your nose.
What's the worse that could happen.
Absolutely. Who needs standards?
Duty of care to patients and students? Hideous red tape. Probably the EU did it. Shun.
Remove continued education. Hell, remove educational requirements. Believing in science or patient/student welfare is superfluous, why not everything else, too?
Bums in seats. Quantity over quality.
Could probably save the NHS and education department a packet too, put in ex offenders with a GSCE and an STI, hand them some baby oil, crack on..
That will probably be the governments next move, brilliant strategy
I'm not suggesting it. I have the radical idea that people working with the vulnerable (including children) should be held to high standards. That we owe vulnerable people better than whoever we can drag off the street. And I'm sorry, but I regard vaccine refusers (except strict medical exemption) as being as good as anyone else you could drag off the street. Billions of doses have been administered now.
You may not have noticed but they've just fired tens of thousands in New York because the other side don't want to be vaccinated!.
An argument for another day perhaps but during a Pandemic you just look like an authoritarian despot which makes the other side dig their heels in even more.
Given that those other vaccines stop transmission by 99% and this one by 50%, it doesn't even look like a great argument.
So requiring patient/student safety and welfare standards that have existed for decades makes one an authoritarian despot.
If you want to run with that argument then you do you
What would you say to the other 50% of patients passed on by the double vaccinated!.
Or the patients who die from something else because there was nobody to care for them?.
You do you is just a lame excuse for somebody unwilling to compromise to get a job done.
I'm afraid I have nothing constructive to add to anyone who thinks that standards which have existed for decades are despotic.
What’s your plan to sort the shortage of 40,000 care workers expected to leave?
What excuse will you use when it’s not just care jobs, but lots of other jobs too? "
I think someone who is unwilling to fulfil their duty of care should not be in the position, and it's better unfilled.
That's not an excuse. That's my front and centre position. Healthcare and social care positions should only be filled by those who can meet the requirements of the job. |
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"Only governments could be that stupid to fire health workers during a Pandemic.
A quick Google brings up the UK Health and Safety guide to immunisations required for healthcare staff. It says:
“ Routine vaccination
All staff should be up to date with their routine immunisations, e.g. tetanus, diphtheria, polio and MMR. The MMR vaccine is especially important in the context of the ability of staff to transmit measles or rubella infections to vulnerable groups. ”
I don’t think it is either (a) new behaviour or (b) even unusual for healthcare staff to have a range of vaccinations. Struggling to see why this rule would be relaxed during a global pandemic for the very disease it is solving for.
Fine, fire a quarter of your healthcare staff to spite your nose.
What's the worse that could happen.
Absolutely. Who needs standards?
Duty of care to patients and students? Hideous red tape. Probably the EU did it. Shun.
Remove continued education. Hell, remove educational requirements. Believing in science or patient/student welfare is superfluous, why not everything else, too?
Bums in seats. Quantity over quality.
Could probably save the NHS and education department a packet too, put in ex offenders with a GSCE and an STI, hand them some baby oil, crack on..
That will probably be the governments next move, brilliant strategy
I'm not suggesting it. I have the radical idea that people working with the vulnerable (including children) should be held to high standards. That we owe vulnerable people better than whoever we can drag off the street. And I'm sorry, but I regard vaccine refusers (except strict medical exemption) as being as good as anyone else you could drag off the street. Billions of doses have been administered now.
You may not have noticed but they've just fired tens of thousands in New York because the other side don't want to be vaccinated!.
An argument for another day perhaps but during a Pandemic you just look like an authoritarian despot which makes the other side dig their heels in even more.
Given that those other vaccines stop transmission by 99% and this one by 50%, it doesn't even look like a great argument.
So requiring patient/student safety and welfare standards that have existed for decades makes one an authoritarian despot.
If you want to run with that argument then you do you
What would you say to the other 50% of patients passed on by the double vaccinated!.
Or the patients who die from something else because there was nobody to care for them?.
You do you is just a lame excuse for somebody unwilling to compromise to get a job done.
I'm afraid I have nothing constructive to add to anyone who thinks that standards which have existed for decades are despotic.
What’s your plan to sort the shortage of 40,000 care workers expected to leave?
What excuse will you use when it’s not just care jobs, but lots of other jobs too?
I think someone who is unwilling to fulfil their duty of care should not be in the position, and it's better unfilled.
That's not an excuse. That's my front and centre position. Healthcare and social care positions should only be filled by those who can meet the requirements of the job."
You think the position is better unfilled? Are you aware these people can leave and earn minimum wage elsewhere, and that’s exactly what they’re doing? Do you realise that care homes are going to have to close due to this? Newsnight this week featured this, and showed a centre for severe learning difficulties. The disabilities these people had were horrendous. These people may have no care at all, or vastly reduced care when places like this close. Their already poor quality of life will be even more reduced. That is appalling.
So you’d rather the patients suffer these closures rather than receive care from unvaccinated people who are happy to take regular tests and show they’re not covid positive? |
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"Only governments could be that stupid to fire health workers during a Pandemic.
A quick Google brings up the UK Health and Safety guide to immunisations required for healthcare staff. It says:
“ Routine vaccination
All staff should be up to date with their routine immunisations, e.g. tetanus, diphtheria, polio and MMR. The MMR vaccine is especially important in the context of the ability of staff to transmit measles or rubella infections to vulnerable groups. ”
I don’t think it is either (a) new behaviour or (b) even unusual for healthcare staff to have a range of vaccinations. Struggling to see why this rule would be relaxed during a global pandemic for the very disease it is solving for.
Fine, fire a quarter of your healthcare staff to spite your nose.
What's the worse that could happen.
Absolutely. Who needs standards?
Duty of care to patients and students? Hideous red tape. Probably the EU did it. Shun.
Remove continued education. Hell, remove educational requirements. Believing in science or patient/student welfare is superfluous, why not everything else, too?
Bums in seats. Quantity over quality.
Could probably save the NHS and education department a packet too, put in ex offenders with a GSCE and an STI, hand them some baby oil, crack on..
That will probably be the governments next move, brilliant strategy
I'm not suggesting it. I have the radical idea that people working with the vulnerable (including children) should be held to high standards. That we owe vulnerable people better than whoever we can drag off the street. And I'm sorry, but I regard vaccine refusers (except strict medical exemption) as being as good as anyone else you could drag off the street. Billions of doses have been administered now.
You may not have noticed but they've just fired tens of thousands in New York because the other side don't want to be vaccinated!.
An argument for another day perhaps but during a Pandemic you just look like an authoritarian despot which makes the other side dig their heels in even more.
Given that those other vaccines stop transmission by 99% and this one by 50%, it doesn't even look like a great argument.
So requiring patient/student safety and welfare standards that have existed for decades makes one an authoritarian despot.
If you want to run with that argument then you do you
What would you say to the other 50% of patients passed on by the double vaccinated!.
Or the patients who die from something else because there was nobody to care for them?.
You do you is just a lame excuse for somebody unwilling to compromise to get a job done.
I'm afraid I have nothing constructive to add to anyone who thinks that standards which have existed for decades are despotic.
What’s your plan to sort the shortage of 40,000 care workers expected to leave?
What excuse will you use when it’s not just care jobs, but lots of other jobs too?
I think someone who is unwilling to fulfil their duty of care should not be in the position, and it's better unfilled.
That's not an excuse. That's my front and centre position. Healthcare and social care positions should only be filled by those who can meet the requirements of the job.
You think the position is better unfilled? Are you aware these people can leave and earn minimum wage elsewhere, and that’s exactly what they’re doing? Do you realise that care homes are going to have to close due to this? Newsnight this week featured this, and showed a centre for severe learning difficulties. The disabilities these people had were horrendous. These people may have no care at all, or vastly reduced care when places like this close. Their already poor quality of life will be even more reduced. That is appalling.
So you’d rather the patients suffer these closures rather than receive care from unvaccinated people who are happy to take regular tests and show they’re not covid positive?"
I think people who are unwilling to meet basic standards for healthcare should have that on their conscience. Not me.
I have a role adjacent to adult social care and although vaccination is not required for what I do, I offered to step aside temporarily until I could be vaccinated. Because I uphold minimal standards of duty of care.
I find it appalling that anyone would argue that it's acceptable to allow people who cannot meet the ethical duties in healthcare and education should be allowed anywhere near vulnerable people, in any capacity. |
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"My wife goes in for minor surgery tomorrow. She's CEV to covid as well as immunocompromised and has other health issues. A cold puts her in hospital.
I'd be utterly horrified if the surgical team, nurses and other staff she encounters were not vaccinated against various diseases including covid.
It's nothing new. "
What's new is that it's being added as a new requirement - not a condition of the original employment contract. |
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"Only governments could be that stupid to fire health workers during a Pandemic.
A quick Google brings up the UK Health and Safety guide to immunisations required for healthcare staff. It says:
“ Routine vaccination
All staff should be up to date with their routine immunisations, e.g. tetanus, diphtheria, polio and MMR. The MMR vaccine is especially important in the context of the ability of staff to transmit measles or rubella infections to vulnerable groups. ”
I don’t think it is either (a) new behaviour or (b) even unusual for healthcare staff to have a range of vaccinations. Struggling to see why this rule would be relaxed during a global pandemic for the very disease it is solving for.
Fine, fire a quarter of your healthcare staff to spite your nose.
What's the worse that could happen.
Absolutely. Who needs standards?
Duty of care to patients and students? Hideous red tape. Probably the EU did it. Shun.
Remove continued education. Hell, remove educational requirements. Believing in science or patient/student welfare is superfluous, why not everything else, too?
Bums in seats. Quantity over quality.
Could probably save the NHS and education department a packet too, put in ex offenders with a GSCE and an STI, hand them some baby oil, crack on..
That will probably be the governments next move, brilliant strategy
I'm not suggesting it. I have the radical idea that people working with the vulnerable (including children) should be held to high standards. That we owe vulnerable people better than whoever we can drag off the street. And I'm sorry, but I regard vaccine refusers (except strict medical exemption) as being as good as anyone else you could drag off the street. Billions of doses have been administered now.
You may not have noticed but they've just fired tens of thousands in New York because the other side don't want to be vaccinated!.
An argument for another day perhaps but during a Pandemic you just look like an authoritarian despot which makes the other side dig their heels in even more.
Given that those other vaccines stop transmission by 99% and this one by 50%, it doesn't even look like a great argument.
So requiring patient/student safety and welfare standards that have existed for decades makes one an authoritarian despot.
If you want to run with that argument then you do you
What would you say to the other 50% of patients passed on by the double vaccinated!.
Or the patients who die from something else because there was nobody to care for them?.
You do you is just a lame excuse for somebody unwilling to compromise to get a job done.
I'm afraid I have nothing constructive to add to anyone who thinks that standards which have existed for decades are despotic.
What’s your plan to sort the shortage of 40,000 care workers expected to leave?
What excuse will you use when it’s not just care jobs, but lots of other jobs too?
I think someone who is unwilling to fulfil their duty of care should not be in the position, and it's better unfilled.
That's not an excuse. That's my front and centre position. Healthcare and social care positions should only be filled by those who can meet the requirements of the job.
You think the position is better unfilled? Are you aware these people can leave and earn minimum wage elsewhere, and that’s exactly what they’re doing? Do you realise that care homes are going to have to close due to this? Newsnight this week featured this, and showed a centre for severe learning difficulties. The disabilities these people had were horrendous. These people may have no care at all, or vastly reduced care when places like this close. Their already poor quality of life will be even more reduced. That is appalling.
So you’d rather the patients suffer these closures rather than receive care from unvaccinated people who are happy to take regular tests and show they’re not covid positive?
I think people who are unwilling to meet basic standards for healthcare should have that on their conscience. Not me.
I have a role adjacent to adult social care and although vaccination is not required for what I do, I offered to step aside temporarily until I could be vaccinated. Because I uphold minimal standards of duty of care.
I find it appalling that anyone would argue that it's acceptable to allow people who cannot meet the ethical duties in healthcare and education should be allowed anywhere near vulnerable people, in any capacity."
Wow. You say it’s not on your conscience, but the fact remains you’d rather these people lose their care, when there is a reasonable alternative of the staff having a test. And all this when vaccinated staff can pass it on anyway!
I find your stance appalling and disgusting and you’d rather these unfortunate people have no care at all. While you sit there pretending to be the virtuous one. These unfortunate disabled people are going to suffer. Big time. And you don’t care. Sick. Totally sick. |
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"My wife goes in for minor surgery tomorrow. She's CEV to covid as well as immunocompromised and has other health issues. A cold puts her in hospital.
I'd be utterly horrified if the surgical team, nurses and other staff she encounters were not vaccinated against various diseases including covid.
It's nothing new.
What's new is that it's being added as a new requirement - not a condition of the original employment contract."
I suspect the same thing happened when the chicken pox vaccine became available.
Or hell, when social media first came along. Did droves of healthcare workers quit their job over the scandal of not being able to share the lulz about their patients on MySpace? |
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"
Wow. You say it’s not on your conscience, but the fact remains you’d rather these people lose their care, when there is a reasonable alternative of the staff having a test. And all this when vaccinated staff can pass it on anyway!
I find your stance appalling and disgusting and you’d rather these unfortunate people have no care at all. While you sit there pretending to be the virtuous one. These unfortunate disabled people are going to suffer. Big time. And you don’t care. Sick. Totally sick."
So I'm a sick disgusting appalling despot for thinking that vulnerable people deserve minimal standards.
Cool cool |
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"
Wow. You say it’s not on your conscience, but the fact remains you’d rather these people lose their care, when there is a reasonable alternative of the staff having a test. And all this when vaccinated staff can pass it on anyway!
I find your stance appalling and disgusting and you’d rather these unfortunate people have no care at all. While you sit there pretending to be the virtuous one. These unfortunate disabled people are going to suffer. Big time. And you don’t care. Sick. Totally sick.
So I'm a sick disgusting appalling despot for thinking that vulnerable people deserve minimal standards.
Cool cool "
No you’re sick for preferring the disabled to lose their care due to closures compared to staff doing a simple test. You can twist it as you like but that’s your preference. Gross.
Their standards will drop below that, they’ll stop getting the care full stop! Think about it. |
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"My wife goes in for minor surgery tomorrow. She's CEV to covid as well as immunocompromised and has other health issues. A cold puts her in hospital.
I'd be utterly horrified if the surgical team, nurses and other staff she encounters were not vaccinated against various diseases including covid.
It's nothing new.
What's new is that it's being added as a new requirement - not a condition of the original employment contract.
I suspect the same thing happened when the chicken pox vaccine became available.
Or hell, when social media first came along. Did droves of healthcare workers quit their job over the scandal of not being able to share the lulz about their patients on MySpace?
No, they didn’t. But they’re quitting over this. And the patients are going to suffer. And you dont care. Says a lot about you as a person, but in your silly words, you do you. Gross."
No, I don't care that incompetent unethical people no longer want to work with the vulnerable, I'm afraid. In fact I suspect it'll be an improvement |
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|
By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
Cookstown |
"This is a shit vaccine for stopping cases!.
Just in case your unaware you can look at most countries with high vaccination rates and see loads and loads of cases.
It's good at stopping hospitalisation and great at stopping deaths.
Cases though, not so good."
Before vaccines cases were increasing exponentially without lockdowns.
Is that still happening ? |
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"My wife goes in for minor surgery tomorrow. She's CEV to covid as well as immunocompromised and has other health issues. A cold puts her in hospital.
I'd be utterly horrified if the surgical team, nurses and other staff she encounters were not vaccinated against various diseases including covid.
It's nothing new.
What's new is that it's being added as a new requirement - not a condition of the original employment contract.
I suspect the same thing happened when the chicken pox vaccine became available.
Or hell, when social media first came along. Did droves of healthcare workers quit their job over the scandal of not being able to share the lulz about their patients on MySpace?
No, they didn’t. But they’re quitting over this. And the patients are going to suffer. And you dont care. Says a lot about you as a person, but in your silly words, you do you. Gross.
No, I don't care that incompetent unethical people no longer want to work with the vulnerable, I'm afraid. In fact I suspect it'll be an improvement"
And in the real world, they’re leaving for another job. Care homes are risking closure. Learning difficulty centres are closing. This is not about your principle, this is the REAL WORLD and people are leaving the jobs, and the people who are going to suffer are the most ill and disabled!
How the hell is no care through closures an improvement? Are you totally insane?
This isn’t about the people leaving the jobs, they’re getting other jobs. It’s about the bloody patients! |
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"My wife goes in for minor surgery tomorrow. She's CEV to covid as well as immunocompromised and has other health issues. A cold puts her in hospital.
I'd be utterly horrified if the surgical team, nurses and other staff she encounters were not vaccinated against various diseases including covid.
It's nothing new.
What's new is that it's being added as a new requirement - not a condition of the original employment contract.
I suspect the same thing happened when the chicken pox vaccine became available.
Or hell, when social media first came along. Did droves of healthcare workers quit their job over the scandal of not being able to share the lulz about their patients on MySpace?"
Who knows, but what happened then is irrelevant as our world has changed hugely in the last 2 years let alone decades. Only time will tell whether there are serious unintened consequences. If it turns out that a significant number of lowly paid NHS and Carer staff decide to take up better paid jobs which don't require them to take a vaccine they don't want, what happens then? What's plan B? |
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"My wife goes in for minor surgery tomorrow. She's CEV to covid as well as immunocompromised and has other health issues. A cold puts her in hospital.
I'd be utterly horrified if the surgical team, nurses and other staff she encounters were not vaccinated against various diseases including covid.
It's nothing new.
What's new is that it's being added as a new requirement - not a condition of the original employment contract.
I suspect the same thing happened when the chicken pox vaccine became available.
Or hell, when social media first came along. Did droves of healthcare workers quit their job over the scandal of not being able to share the lulz about their patients on MySpace?
Who knows, but what happened then is irrelevant as our world has changed hugely in the last 2 years let alone decades. Only time will tell whether there are serious unintened consequences. If it turns out that a significant number of lowly paid NHS and Carer staff decide to take up better paid jobs which don't require them to take a vaccine they don't want, what happens then? What's plan B?"
We probably worry about that when it happens, after we worry about our food supply.
In the US mandates tend to result in a higher rate of vaccination. Yes, I've been following it. |
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"I think we've established our positions. I'm unmoved and feel no need to clog up the forum further with the same back and forth."
You’re right. One of us cares about the ill and disabled losing their care, and one of us is sitting on their high horse not giving a toss about these people, so obsessed with her principle that she doesn’t care that the most vulnerable suffer.
Glad you’ve shown the forum who you are. Gross. |
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"My wife goes in for minor surgery tomorrow. She's CEV to covid as well as immunocompromised and has other health issues. A cold puts her in hospital.
I'd be utterly horrified if the surgical team, nurses and other staff she encounters were not vaccinated against various diseases including covid.
It's nothing new.
What's new is that it's being added as a new requirement - not a condition of the original employment contract.
I suspect the same thing happened when the chicken pox vaccine became available.
Or hell, when social media first came along. Did droves of healthcare workers quit their job over the scandal of not being able to share the lulz about their patients on MySpace?
Who knows, but what happened then is irrelevant as our world has changed hugely in the last 2 years let alone decades. Only time will tell whether there are serious unintened consequences. If it turns out that a significant number of lowly paid NHS and Carer staff decide to take up better paid jobs which don't require them to take a vaccine they don't want, what happens then? What's plan B?
We probably worry about that when it happens, after we worry about our food supply.
In the US mandates tend to result in a higher rate of vaccination. Yes, I've been following it."
Lol worry about it once the disabled and elderly have lost their care homes? Genius! It’s a bit late then! |
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"
No, I don't care that incompetent unethical people no longer want to work with the vulnerable, I'm afraid. In fact I suspect it'll be an improvement"
It'll be an 'improvement' that instead of getting some vital help/care they'll get less or none? Nice.
You speak as if not having the vaccine turns people into superspreading murderers when we know vaccination doesn't prevent people getting or spreading Covid. The unvaccinated would still be subject to all the same PPE procedures etc. that already exist to protect themselves and their
patients/clients.
|
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"Only governments could be that stupid to fire health workers during a Pandemic.
A quick Google brings up the UK Health and Safety guide to immunisations required for healthcare staff. It says:
“ Routine vaccination
All staff should be up to date with their routine immunisations, e.g. tetanus, diphtheria, polio and MMR. The MMR vaccine is especially important in the context of the ability of staff to transmit measles or rubella infections to vulnerable groups. ”
I don’t think it is either (a) new behaviour or (b) even unusual for healthcare staff to have a range of vaccinations. Struggling to see why this rule would be relaxed during a global pandemic for the very disease it is solving for.
Fine, fire a quarter of your healthcare staff to spite your nose.
What's the worse that could happen."
Any healthcare staff that do not believe in the basic concepts of being modern medicine are not healthcare staff, they are health hazards and the NHS is better off without them. |
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"My wife goes in for minor surgery tomorrow. She's CEV to covid as well as immunocompromised and has other health issues. A cold puts her in hospital.
I'd be utterly horrified if the surgical team, nurses and other staff she encounters were not vaccinated against various diseases including covid.
It's nothing new.
What's new is that it's being added as a new requirement - not a condition of the original employment contract.
I suspect the same thing happened when the chicken pox vaccine became available.
Or hell, when social media first came along. Did droves of healthcare workers quit their job over the scandal of not being able to share the lulz about their patients on MySpace?
Who knows, but what happened then is irrelevant as our world has changed hugely in the last 2 years let alone decades. Only time will tell whether there are serious unintened consequences. If it turns out that a significant number of lowly paid NHS and Carer staff decide to take up better paid jobs which don't require them to take a vaccine they don't want, what happens then? What's plan B?
We probably worry about that when it happens, after we worry about our food supply.
In the US mandates tend to result in a higher rate of vaccination. Yes, I've been following it.
Lol worry about it once the disabled and elderly have lost their care homes? Genius! It’s a bit late then!"
When the USA very recently made covid vaccination mandatory for health workers, and told them to get at least first jab by 1st October or they were fired, do you know what happened? The vaccination rate in healthcare staff jumped from 80% to 99.9% virtually overnight. Funnily enough when push comes to shove, the vast majority of people will abandon their conspiracy theory principles when the choice is earn wages or stop eating. |
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"I think we've established our positions. I'm unmoved and feel no need to clog up the forum further with the same back and forth.
You’re right. One of us cares about the ill and disabled losing their care, and one of us is sitting on their high horse not giving a toss about these people, so obsessed with her principle that she doesn’t care that the most vulnerable suffer.
Glad you’ve shown the forum who you are. Gross."
Do I take it that you two are not going to get a room tonight then? |
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"My wife goes in for minor surgery tomorrow. She's CEV to covid as well as immunocompromised and has other health issues. A cold puts her in hospital.
I'd be utterly horrified if the surgical team, nurses and other staff she encounters were not vaccinated against various diseases including covid.
It's nothing new.
What's new is that it's being added as a new requirement - not a condition of the original employment contract.
I suspect the same thing happened when the chicken pox vaccine became available.
Or hell, when social media first came along. Did droves of healthcare workers quit their job over the scandal of not being able to share the lulz about their patients on MySpace?
Who knows, but what happened then is irrelevant as our world has changed hugely in the last 2 years let alone decades. Only time will tell whether there are serious unintened consequences. If it turns out that a significant number of lowly paid NHS and Carer staff decide to take up better paid jobs which don't require them to take a vaccine they don't want, what happens then? What's plan B?
We probably worry about that when it happens, after we worry about our food supply.
In the US mandates tend to result in a higher rate of vaccination. Yes, I've been following it.
Lol worry about it once the disabled and elderly have lost their care homes? Genius! It’s a bit late then!
When the USA very recently made covid vaccination mandatory for health workers, and told them to get at least first jab by 1st October or they were fired, do you know what happened? The vaccination rate in healthcare staff jumped from 80% to 99.9% virtually overnight. Funnily enough when push comes to shove, the vast majority of people will abandon their conspiracy theory principles when the choice is earn wages or stop eating."
And the governments own projection here is this isn’t going to happen because there’s plenty of alternative minimum wage employment for them, hence the 40,000 lost staff! Keep up for gods sake!
And people aren’t rejecting the vaccine due to conspiracy theories, that’s a lazy stupid label. There’s all sorts of reasons.
But check the governments own projections, they’re expecting to lose 40,000 staff due to the mandate. |
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"Only governments could be that stupid to fire health workers during a Pandemic.
A quick Google brings up the UK Health and Safety guide to immunisations required for healthcare staff. It says:
“ Routine vaccination
All staff should be up to date with their routine immunisations, e.g. tetanus, diphtheria, polio and MMR. The MMR vaccine is especially important in the context of the ability of staff to transmit measles or rubella infections to vulnerable groups. ”
I don’t think it is either (a) new behaviour or (b) even unusual for healthcare staff to have a range of vaccinations. Struggling to see why this rule would be relaxed during a global pandemic for the very disease it is solving for.
Fine, fire a quarter of your healthcare staff to spite your nose.
What's the worse that could happen.
Any healthcare staff that do not believe in the basic concepts of being modern medicine are not healthcare staff, they are health hazards and the NHS is better off without them.
Health hazards? Lol. Were they health hazards last year when they worked pre vaccine? Or did you stand outside clapping them too? Hypocritical twat.
What’s your plan when there’s a staff shortage?
The only staff shortage is caused by brexiters telling EU workers to piss off to their own countries. But you crack on and blame it on covid vaccination. "
Utter tripe! Brexit has indeed caused a shortage, and the mandate is expected to add 40,000 to that. Look it up. Do your research. You’re wrong. |
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https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2021/07/27/care-homes-face-losing-40000-staff-compulsory-vaccinations-policy/
Feel free to check plenty of other sources Polly. Brexit has caused some yes. And the mandate adds to the shortage. Do not pretend this is not the case. You are wrong. |
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"https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2021/07/27/care-homes-face-losing-40000-staff-compulsory-vaccinations-policy/
Feel free to check plenty of other sources Polly. Brexit has caused some yes. And the mandate adds to the shortage. Do not pretend this is not the case. You are wrong."
Let's see how many of that 40,000 decide to voluntarily quit their job when it comes to it. The experience in every other country is that fuck all percent decide they would rather starve than work. Oh, and I do hope that anyone that voluntarily puts themselves out of work is not allowed to claim benefit money, which should go to those with genuine reasons for being out of work. |
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"https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2021/07/27/care-homes-face-losing-40000-staff-compulsory-vaccinations-policy/
Feel free to check plenty of other sources Polly. Brexit has caused some yes. And the mandate adds to the shortage. Do not pretend this is not the case. You are wrong.
Let's see how many of that 40,000 decide to voluntarily quit their job when it comes to it. The experience in every other country is that fuck all percent decide they would rather starve than work. Oh, and I do hope that anyone that voluntarily puts themselves out of work is not allowed to claim benefit money, which should go to those with genuine reasons for being out of work."
There’s a surplus of minimum wage jobs in other industries Polly. They’re already leaving for them! They won’t need benefits. Keep up! |
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And the 40,000 is the government estimates of how many will leave. That is AFTER some decide to get the covid vaccination. It may be a few more, it may be a few less, but the fact is care homes and other centres for the disabled are saying they’re facing closure, and it is the PATIENTS which will SUFFER! |
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"This is a shit vaccine for stopping cases!.
Just in case your unaware you can look at most countries with high vaccination rates and see loads and loads of cases.
It's good at stopping hospitalisation and great at stopping deaths.
Cases though, not so good.
Yes, it's a very shit vaccine for stopping cases. Just like *all* of the vaccines except maybe HPV. None of them prevent infection."
.
That's ambiguity.
MMR stops transmission at high rates, so does whooping cough, so does polio so does diphtheria, in fact ever vaccine given stops transmission at a higher rate than this particular one. |
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"https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2021/07/27/care-homes-face-losing-40000-staff-compulsory-vaccinations-policy/
Feel free to check plenty of other sources Polly. Brexit has caused some yes. And the mandate adds to the shortage. Do not pretend this is not the case. You are wrong.
Let's see how many of that 40,000 decide to voluntarily quit their job when it comes to it. The experience in every other country is that fuck all percent decide they would rather starve than work. Oh, and I do hope that anyone that voluntarily puts themselves out of work is not allowed to claim benefit money, which should go to those with genuine reasons for being out of work."
.
Your a left winger who now wishes people ill, destitute and with homeless children?.
I think you've fallen into the milgram study where volunteers are willing to kill people for a good cause providing a doctor in a white coat says... It's a good cause. |
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"This is a shit vaccine for stopping cases!.
Just in case your unaware you can look at most countries with high vaccination rates and see loads and loads of cases.
It's good at stopping hospitalisation and great at stopping deaths.
Cases though, not so good.
Before vaccines cases were increasing exponentially without lockdowns.
Is that still happening ?"
.
Cases always climb in some form of exponential pattern, pick your graph point, the fact is cases are now plateaued more due to the amount of natural infection which has a far far stronger immune response than this vaccine which is really stopping reinfection, case study after case study shows reinfection rates are minute compared to infection rates after vaccination. |
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"This is a shit vaccine for stopping cases!.
Just in case your unaware you can look at most countries with high vaccination rates and see loads and loads of cases.
It's good at stopping hospitalisation and great at stopping deaths.
Cases though, not so good.
Yes, it's a very shit vaccine for stopping cases. Just like *all* of the vaccines except maybe HPV. None of them prevent infection..
That's ambiguity.
MMR stops transmission at high rates, so does whooping cough, so does polio so does diphtheria, in fact ever vaccine given stops transmission at a higher rate than this particular one."
In fact I just looked up the figures for transmission for measles (the most infections virus known to man) if your vaccinated with the MMR it's 3 in 100 giving you a transmission reduction of 95%.
For somebody who claims to have put a lot of study work in to this Pandemic, you really get an awful lot of stuff wrong on these threads. |
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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
"It applies in parts of the US. I believe similar mandates are coming in in parts of Australia, too."
Yes and sajid javid say it too on the bbc, that the health workers should get the jab or another job, in the article it said that "he was not prepared to "pause" the requirement for care staff in england to be fully vaccinated by 11 november".
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My wife goes in for minor surgery tomorrow. She's CEV to covid as well as immunocompromised and has other health issues. A cold puts her in hospital.
I'd be utterly horrified if the surgical team, nurses and other staff she encounters were not vaccinated against various diseases including covid.
It's nothing new. "
If this vaccine stopped you dying from it then there should be no worry once vaccinated. As has been seen this vaccine doesn’t do that and even vaccinated can still pass the cov19 on. This is the logic many people seem to be ignoring. Many of these front liner workers who are choosing to wait have most likely been in the thick of it and not got ill whilst dealing with covid patients/deceased etc. Yet know those who were clapping them and seeing them hero’s now want to see them loose their jobs if they don’t fall into line and take an experimental vaccine. Anyone can say what they like about it not being experimental but that’s a crock. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My wife goes in for minor surgery tomorrow. She's CEV to covid as well as immunocompromised and has other health issues. A cold puts her in hospital.
I'd be utterly horrified if the surgical team, nurses and other staff she encounters were not vaccinated against various diseases including covid.
It's nothing new.
If this vaccine stopped you dying from it then there should be no worry once vaccinated. As has been seen this vaccine doesn’t do that and even vaccinated can still pass the cov19 on. This is the logic many people seem to be ignoring. Many of these front liner workers who are choosing to wait have most likely been in the thick of it and not got ill whilst dealing with covid patients/deceased etc. Yet know those who were clapping them and seeing them hero’s now want to see them loose their jobs if they don’t fall into line and take an experimental vaccine. Anyone can say what they like about it not being experimental but that’s a crock."
I'd disagree that's the logic people are ignoring.
It's been a while since I went looking but there was evidence that vaccines helped redcuce tej risk of transmission (irrc it's a combination of having a lower amount of the bad stuff in the viral load, plus a quicker reduction of the load).
It's a scale not binary.
And there are no doubt lots of contradictions with clapping ... After all, it was an easy to do gesture. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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To be honest NHS staff have for years required to take MMR, combined Hep and BCG to be allowed to work in a clinical setting... it’s a matter of time before covid-19 is added to that list and to be honest the number of health workers arguing against that logic is tiny.
There’s very few front liners who aren’t already jabbed, most of us are either taking or have just had our bonus 3rd booster. |
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"To be honest NHS staff have for years required to take MMR, combined Hep and BCG to be allowed to work in a clinical setting... it’s a matter of time before covid-19 is added to that list and to be honest the number of health workers arguing against that logic is tiny.
There’s very few front liners who aren’t already jabbed, most of us are either taking or have just had our bonus 3rd booster."
That would make sense as all three of those vaccines have an either extremely high blocking of transmission or completely block it.
That's not the case with the current covid vaccines so despite vaccination you will still have to take extra measures to avoid reinfection of patients.
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"To be honest NHS staff have for years required to take MMR, combined Hep and BCG to be allowed to work in a clinical setting... it’s a matter of time before covid-19 is added to that list and to be honest the number of health workers arguing against that logic is tiny.
There’s very few front liners who aren’t already jabbed, most of us are either taking or have just had our bonus 3rd booster."
Yep, I know several front line healthcare workers who have had their 3rd jab already.
I don't know where people get the idea that the covid vaccines don't reduce transmission. They don't stop it but so reduce likelihood by about 50% |
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By *ames WMan
over a year ago
Gloucester |
whats the worse that could happen? fewer vulnberable people will get covid from unvaccinated health workers I suppose.
When I need a health worker I'd rather not have one who gives me communicable diseases.
I genuinley dont know why this is even an issue.
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"whats the worse that could happen? fewer vulnberable people will get covid from unvaccinated health workers I suppose.
When I need a health worker I'd rather not have one who gives me communicable diseases.
I genuinley dont know why this is even an issue.
"
It's been standard ethical practice around the world for years. A few alarmists are intent on causing distress.
Restrictions or vaccines are the tools we have to restore a healthy, functional society.
Some would prefer to live in the dark ages or during lockdown conditions, harming millions and our psychological and economic wellbeing. They need to wake up and stop their antisocial disease mongering |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
Cookstown |
"whats the worse that could happen? fewer vulnberable people will get covid from unvaccinated health workers I suppose.
When I need a health worker I'd rather not have one who gives me communicable diseases.
I genuinley dont know why this is even an issue.
"
It seems to be a bigger issue on fab than it is in New Zealand ..
Bizarre. |
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"To be honest NHS staff have for years required to take MMR, combined Hep and BCG to be allowed to work in a clinical setting... it’s a matter of time before covid-19 is added to that list and to be honest the number of health workers arguing against that logic is tiny.
There’s very few front liners who aren’t already jabbed, most of us are either taking or have just had our bonus 3rd booster.
Yep, I know several front line healthcare workers who have had their 3rd jab already.
I don't know where people get the idea that the covid vaccines don't reduce transmission. They don't stop it but so reduce likelihood by about 50%"
Depends on age when you look at the studies, transmission is reduced by 50-60% in under 30s it's down at the 30-40% reduction above 45.
Most doctors, surgeons and very experienced practitioners will be in the latter group meaning if your intent on stopping all transmissions you'll have to other things as well or do you just say to the 65% of patients who get infected by double vaccinated health care workers, sorry but at least I was jabbed?. |
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"To be honest NHS staff have for years required to take MMR, combined Hep and BCG to be allowed to work in a clinical setting... it’s a matter of time before covid-19 is added to that list and to be honest the number of health workers arguing against that logic is tiny.
There’s very few front liners who aren’t already jabbed, most of us are either taking or have just had our bonus 3rd booster.
Yep, I know several front line healthcare workers who have had their 3rd jab already.
I don't know where people get the idea that the covid vaccines don't reduce transmission. They don't stop it but so reduce likelihood by about 50%
Depends on age when you look at the studies, transmission is reduced by 50-60% in under 30s it's down at the 30-40% reduction above 45.
Most doctors, surgeons and very experienced practitioners will be in the latter group meaning if your intent on stopping all transmissions you'll have to other things as well or do you just say to the 65% of patients who get infected by double vaccinated health care workers, sorry but at least I was jabbed?."
Of course doctors do other things as well, that's what all the masks, gloves, sterilisation etc is for. That is also what the vaccination against all common diseases is about. If a vaccine is even only 50% efficient at reducing transmission, that is still cutting the number of infections in half.
Health care workers should not be doing masks OR gloves OR sterilisation OR vaccines OR whatever. They should be doing masks AND gloves AND sterilisation AND vaccines AND whatever! Now do you get the point of it? |
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"To be honest NHS staff have for years required to take MMR, combined Hep and BCG to be allowed to work in a clinical setting... it’s a matter of time before covid-19 is added to that list and to be honest the number of health workers arguing against that logic is tiny.
There’s very few front liners who aren’t already jabbed, most of us are either taking or have just had our bonus 3rd booster.
Yep, I know several front line healthcare workers who have had their 3rd jab already.
I don't know where people get the idea that the covid vaccines don't reduce transmission. They don't stop it but so reduce likelihood by about 50%
Depends on age when you look at the studies, transmission is reduced by 50-60% in under 30s it's down at the 30-40% reduction above 45.
Most doctors, surgeons and very experienced practitioners will be in the latter group meaning if your intent on stopping all transmissions you'll have to other things as well or do you just say to the 65% of patients who get infected by double vaccinated health care workers, sorry but at least I was jabbed?.
Of course doctors do other things as well, that's what all the masks, gloves, sterilisation etc is for. That is also what the vaccination against all common diseases is about. If a vaccine is even only 50% efficient at reducing transmission, that is still cutting the number of infections in half.
Health care workers should not be doing masks OR gloves OR sterilisation OR vaccines OR whatever. They should be doing masks AND gloves AND sterilisation AND vaccines AND whatever! Now do you get the point of it?"
.
Let's pull your opinions apart piece by piece!.
Gloves, really this an airborne virus.
Sterilisation, honestly what isn't sterilised in a hospital and again it's an airborne virus.
Masks! Now yes here's a perfect place for mask wearing, we've never argued against wearing masks in this environment.
Vaccines AND whatever, yes there great, were Pro vaccination, we're simply pointing out this vaccine is rubbish at reducing cases and in this context, cases matter. |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Also California has just passed a law that forbids company's from forcing people to have a vaccine so goes both ways
I suspect you've got the wrong state, given that California has vaccine mandates...
If so I stand corrected
It was probably Floriduh or Texas."
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"What do you think of the latest news from new zealand that health workers and teachers have to be vaccinated in order to continue to work, so basically it is "no jab, no job".
High risk workers in the health and disability sector to be fully vaccinated by 1 december, 2021, and to receive their first dose by 30 October.
School and early learning staff and support people who have contact with children and students to be fully vaccinated by 1 January, 2022, and to receive their first dose by 15 November.
They say that "while most people working in these sectors are already fully or partially vaccinated we cant leave anything to chance and are making it mandatory".
Could we see this catch on to other countries too?
Stupid and not surprising. Hope they have a teacher shortage
This has to stop. Absolute lunacy. Every other jab you have a choice and are not segregated or discriminated against in society, except this one.
If governments truly cared about us they wouldn't be willing to cut our money supply in order to " save you ".
Unhealthy foods wouldn't be legal.
Obesity would be non existent and exercise and healthy eating would be mandatory.
No biggie, when i return home i'll just home school my kids with private tutors, theirs always a solution. Not having my future kids in establishments with forced medical procedures, or schools where your kids can be jabbed without your consent "
“Every other jab you have a choice”. Now that’s an uneducated statement if ever there was! There are many professionals mandated to have certain inoculations like Hep B and countries that will not allow you to enter without certain others like yellow fever. In some circumstances public health trumps civil liberties for the wider good. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
It would seem sensible that anyone involved in primary care is vaccinated for their own protection but...
I see people on here continuing to talk about how vaccination is to protect the patients. Correct me if I am wrong, but we know that vaccinated people can still contract, and more importantly for patients, transmit covid.
Also, the vast majority of patients will be vaccinated.
Mandatory testing before attending work is 100% necessary for medical/care staff but I am not quite getting why covid vaccine should be mandated?
What sort of efficacy do vaccines like HepB have? How long until you need a booster? What about MMR? |
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"It would seem sensible that anyone involved in primary care is vaccinated for their own protection but...
I see people on here continuing to talk about how vaccination is to protect the patients. Correct me if I am wrong, but we know that vaccinated people can still contract, and more importantly for patients, transmit covid.
Also, the vast majority of patients will be vaccinated.
Mandatory testing before attending work is 100% necessary for medical/care staff but I am not quite getting why covid vaccine should be mandated?
What sort of efficacy do vaccines like HepB have? How long until you need a booster? What about MMR?"
Hep b effectiveness is just under 90% and need a booster every 5 years. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"It would seem sensible that anyone involved in primary care is vaccinated for their own protection but...
I see people on here continuing to talk about how vaccination is to protect the patients. Correct me if I am wrong, but we know that vaccinated people can still contract, and more importantly for patients, transmit covid.
Also, the vast majority of patients will be vaccinated.
Mandatory testing before attending work is 100% necessary for medical/care staff but I am not quite getting why covid vaccine should be mandated?
What sort of efficacy do vaccines like HepB have? How long until you need a booster? What about MMR?
Hep b effectiveness is just under 90% and need a booster every 5 years. "
Thanks.
(Open question not aimed at anyone)...So presumably HepB protection decreases between having the jab and year5?
Do health workers need to be tested for HepB (even though they have been inoculated)?
Also are those inoculated against HepB still able to carry and transmit it to others? |
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"
I see people on here continuing to talk about how vaccination is to protect the patients. Correct me if I am wrong, but we know that vaccinated people can still contract, and more importantly for patients, transmit covid.
"
For the last time, and for those at the back...
Vaccines, including covid vaccines, reduce the chances of transmission.
Wouldn't you want the people caring for your and yours to have taken precautions against spreading various communicable diseases? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think we've established our positions. I'm unmoved and feel no need to clog up the forum further with the same back and forth.
You’re right. One of us cares about the ill and disabled losing their care, and one of us is sitting on their high horse not giving a toss about these people, so obsessed with her principle that she doesn’t care that the most vulnerable suffer.
Glad you’ve shown the forum who you are. Gross."
Some people are, possibly, paid to steer public opinion, especially in the area which we’re conversing. Some as you accurately point out are coming from a “high horse” perspective. Nobody knows anything fully, yet many believe they do.
By the trajectory we’re heading and have been on for some time now it’s evident that between policies created, lack of care for the ‘serfs’ and erosion of human rights including numerous health interventions that are not the best option that this is very little about keeping people safe. With the amount of people using social media many are driven to go along with what’s deemed “right” virtue signallers and social justice warriors, then there’s those who actively work towards pushing something that’s seen to be acceptable and anything other is unacceptable to them. Just check the amount of time people put into supporting the narrative.  |
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By *1bttmMan
over a year ago
Shoreditch east London |
"What do you think of the latest news from new zealand that health workers and teachers have to be vaccinated in order to continue to work, so basically it is "no jab, no job".
High risk workers in the health and disability sector to be fully vaccinated by 1 december, 2021, and to receive their first dose by 30 October.
School and early learning staff and support people who have contact with children and students to be fully vaccinated by 1 January, 2022, and to receive their first dose by 15 November.
They say that "while most people working in these sectors are already fully or partially vaccinated we cant leave anything to chance and are making it mandatory".
Could we see this catch on to other countries too?"
.
Catching on? Don't u mean catching up? France said all healthcare workers needed to be vaccinated back in Sept threatening 10,000+ with suspension and no pay. Probably a total more than all of the teachers/care workers in the whole of NZ. I think u've missed 'the scoop' on countries forcing certain professions to be vaccinated OP |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It would seem sensible that anyone involved in primary care is vaccinated for their own protection but...
I see people on here continuing to talk about how vaccination is to protect the patients. Correct me if I am wrong, but we know that vaccinated people can still contract, and more importantly for patients, transmit covid.
Also, the vast majority of patients will be vaccinated.
Mandatory testing before attending work is 100% necessary for medical/care staff but I am not quite getting why covid vaccine should be mandated?
What sort of efficacy do vaccines like HepB have? How long until you need a booster? What about MMR?"
|
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"I think we've established our positions. I'm unmoved and feel no need to clog up the forum further with the same back and forth.
You’re right. One of us cares about the ill and disabled losing their care, and one of us is sitting on their high horse not giving a toss about these people, so obsessed with her principle that she doesn’t care that the most vulnerable suffer.
Glad you’ve shown the forum who you are. Gross.
Some people are, possibly, paid to steer public opinion, especially in the area which we’re conversing. Some as you accurately point out are coming from a “high horse” perspective. Nobody knows anything fully, yet many believe they do.
By the trajectory we’re heading and have been on for some time now it’s evident that between policies created, lack of care for the ‘serfs’ and erosion of human rights including numerous health interventions that are not the best option that this is very little about keeping people safe. With the amount of people using social media many are driven to go along with what’s deemed “right” virtue signallers and social justice warriors, then there’s those who actively work towards pushing something that’s seen to be acceptable and anything other is unacceptable to them. Just check the amount of time people put into supporting the narrative. "
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
Cookstown |
"It's all part of there agenda its to control the masses there next thing will be microchip implants it's already being trialed in Switzerland
You just have to be joking yes?  "
No it's absolutely right, it's on YouTube  |
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"It's all part of there agenda its to control the masses there next thing will be microchip implants it's already being trialed in Switzerland
You just have to be joking yes?
No it's absolutely right, it's on YouTube "
No doubt all the governments of the world can hide it ... But keV, who lives in his car and made a video "the truth uncovered" got the scoop. |
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"It's all part of there agenda its to control the masses there next thing will be microchip implants it's already being trialed in Switzerland
You just have to be joking yes?
No it's absolutely right, it's on YouTube
No doubt all the governments of the world can hide it ... But keV, who lives in his car and made a video "the truth uncovered" got the scoop."
As per |
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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago
Bristol |
"It's all part of there agenda its to control the masses there next thing will be microchip implants it's already being trialed in Switzerland
You just have to be joking yes?
No it's absolutely right, it's on YouTube
No doubt all the governments of the world can hide it ... But keV, who lives in his car and made a video "the truth uncovered" got the scoop.
As per "
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Everyone pulls out the you tube card its so funny may iv actually read between the lines? Tell me this why have Google and amazon and huawei (who don't forget are accused of saying and hacking etc) all invested in the vaccine programme? The merical cure we were all sold down the river on that one! there's people on ventilators who are double jabbed and the numbers still going up but it's OK we all been vaccinated lol wake up your all sheep |
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"Everyone pulls out the you tube card its so funny may iv actually read between the lines? Tell me this why have Google and amazon and huawei (who don't forget are accused of saying and hacking etc) all invested in the vaccine programme? The merical cure we were all sold down the river on that one! there's people on ventilators who are double jabbed and the numbers still going up but it's OK we all been vaccinated lol wake up your all sheep"
So... Big business makes investments in things they think might succeed (new product with huge demand - that seems like a sensible investment).
Something which was never claimed to be 100% successful is not 100% successful.
Therefore conspiracy?
Got it |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"
I see people on here continuing to talk about how vaccination is to protect the patients. Correct me if I am wrong, but we know that vaccinated people can still contract, and more importantly for patients, transmit covid.
For the last time, and for those at the back...
Vaccines, including covid vaccines, reduce the chances of transmission.
Wouldn't you want the people caring for your and yours to have taken precautions against spreading various communicable diseases?"
Except (for the last time - that comes across as a so entitled) that there is not yet conclusive evidence that is the case. Common sense would indicate that a reduced viral load = reduced chance of transmission. However, there are contradictory studies and no definitive answer yet.
The one thing that IS clear is that vaccinated people can and do still catch and transmit Covid. There is hope that this is much reduced but the problem is that there is a danger of complacency among the vaccinated to think they are perfectly safe for themselves and others.
These links may not be allowed (sorry mods if not)...
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/england-says-delta-infections-produce-similar-virus-levels-regardless-vaccine-2021-08-06/
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02187-1
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/picture-shifting-vaccines-transmission-re-shaping-learn-live/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/delta-variant-vaccine-covid-uk-b1898190.html%3famp
That’s not to say there aren’t also studies contradicting these findings/concerns. My point remains that we do not have a conclusive/definitive position on this yet. |
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