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263 deaths
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By *ohnj21 OP Man
over a year ago
Leeds |
263
Why are so much worse countries in Europe.
Goverment were spinning figures, going down.
This a bad trends upwards
It's time this goverment resigned its a national disgrace amount of avoidable deaths |
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There has clearly been an acceptance to let cases run riot with the rise but not surge in hospital admissions & sadly deaths. From what I read this morning they are expecting this to peak soon and drop to 5000 cases per day by Christmas. Time will tell if our way was right or wrong. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
what you are failing to see is that its people died who have been positive with covid in the last 28 days and so as the numbers have been so high for positive over the last month then more people will fall into that category it doesn't mean they have died of covid.
The uk is testing far more people than on the continent (over 3 times as many as Germany) and so that will skew the figures too for example someone in Germany dies of a heart attack but wasn't tested before doesn't count but there is more chance the same guy would have been tested in the uk and that would count.
The higher the cases the higher the numbers will be but it doesnt mean covid killed them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Taken from the BBC
Due to technical issues, today's figures also include deaths and cases in Wales covering a 72-hour period.
Although still not a good trend not a completely fair representation |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"its winter folks, remember half of these cases/deaths will be linked to other things like cancer,diabetes etc.
time to move on, were all used to now."
The families and loved ones of those who died today are not "used to it" and not ready to "move on".
We need to all treat this pandemic more seriously again or we will be back where we were previously |
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By *amish SMan
over a year ago
Eastleigh |
"263
Why are so much worse countries in Europe.
Goverment were spinning figures, going down.
This a bad trends upwards
It's time this goverment resigned its a national disgrace amount of avoidable deaths"
After Germany, Poland, Romania who have worse infection figures. The death figure in some countries is not counted in the same way as the UK. When the covid is reduced to nothing and the dust settles then the figures will be worth something, but the likes of Germany will never know as they don't record death figures so have no real historic data to compare against. |
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"its winter folks, remember half of these cases/deaths will be linked to other things like cancer,diabetes etc.
time to move on, were all used to now.
I thought winter started in December  "
It does usually. But due to covid you may experience delays in the seasons. |
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"its winter folks, remember half of these cases/deaths will be linked to other things like cancer,diabetes etc.
time to move on, were all used to now.
The families and loved ones of those who died today are not "used to it" and not ready to "move on".
We need to all treat this pandemic more seriously again or we will be back where we were previously"
I have had a close loved one who died as a direct result of covid however we do need to learn to live with this virus as we have countless other diseases and virus throughout time. Nothing will lessen the hurt but sadly and I know this will be very unpopular but as with all things the strongest survive |
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By *lex46TV/TS
over a year ago
Near Wells |
"263
Why are so much worse countries in Europe.
Goverment were spinning figures, going down.
This a bad trends upwards
It's time this goverment resigned its a national disgrace amount of avoidable deaths"
Which government would you like to replace the current one? |
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"263
Why are so much worse countries in Europe.
Goverment were spinning figures, going down.
This a bad trends upwards
It's time this goverment resigned its a national disgrace amount of avoidable deaths"
Yawn.
|
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"its winter folks, remember half of these cases/deaths will be linked to other things like cancer,diabetes etc.
time to move on, were all used to now.
I thought winter started in December
It does usually. But due to covid you may experience delays in the seasons. "
It sounds like "things are bad, but if we define winter as September to May, it'll look less bad" |
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Don’t want to sound like a grump or any way impressed with the government they are appalling.
Feel for everyone who has lost loved ones in this, it’s bad, but what I meant to say is this is here for the rest of our lives and we have to learn to live with it.
So if I offended anyone I apologise |
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"Don’t want to sound like a grump or any way impressed with the government they are appalling.
Feel for everyone who has lost loved ones in this, it’s bad, but what I meant to say is this is here for the rest of our lives and we have to learn to live with it.
So if I offended anyone I apologise "
I don't understand learn to live with it.? What should we be doing then differently? Are we not already living with it? Or what needs to happen for us to be considered to be "living with it"? |
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"Don’t want to sound like a grump or any way impressed with the government they are appalling.
Feel for everyone who has lost loved ones in this, it’s bad, but what I meant to say is this is here for the rest of our lives and we have to learn to live with it.
So if I offended anyone I apologise "
I'm happy to learn to live with it once we've got it under control. We don't yet, by any stretch.
Once the serious disease burden is a bit more like measles, I'd be inclined to agree with you. Until then, "learn to live with it" seems to mean "ignore it and let other people learn to die with it". |
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"Don’t want to sound like a grump or any way impressed with the government they are appalling.
Feel for everyone who has lost loved ones in this, it’s bad, but what I meant to say is this is here for the rest of our lives and we have to learn to live with it.
So if I offended anyone I apologise
I'm happy to learn to live with it once we've got it under control. We don't yet, by any stretch.
Once the serious disease burden is a bit more like measles, I'd be inclined to agree with you. Until then, "learn to live with it" seems to mean "ignore it and let other people learn to die with it"."
I think that’s the problem it will never get under control.
What do you suggest another lockdown which doesn’t work? |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Don’t want to sound like a grump or any way impressed with the government they are appalling.
Feel for everyone who has lost loved ones in this, it’s bad, but what I meant to say is this is here for the rest of our lives and we have to learn to live with it.
So if I offended anyone I apologise
I'm happy to learn to live with it once we've got it under control. We don't yet, by any stretch.
Once the serious disease burden is a bit more like measles, I'd be inclined to agree with you. Until then, "learn to live with it" seems to mean "ignore it and let other people learn to die with it"."
How many are actually dying of it now the old and vulnerable have had the jabs? |
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"Don’t want to sound like a grump or any way impressed with the government they are appalling.
Feel for everyone who has lost loved ones in this, it’s bad, but what I meant to say is this is here for the rest of our lives and we have to learn to live with it.
So if I offended anyone I apologise
I don't understand learn to live with it.? What should we be doing then differently? Are we not already living with it? Or what needs to happen for us to be considered to be "living with it"? "
Just need to get on with our lives as normal I know it’s hard what else can we do? |
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By *ohnj21 OP Man
over a year ago
Leeds |
Point.
Other countries have vulnerable people Germany population bigger than ours no were near same amount of additional deaths.
And person said who would replace them well oh you can stay cis the rest rubbish.
This goverment is the worst I have seen in 45 years. Lab or con.
Disgrace |
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"Don’t want to sound like a grump or any way impressed with the government they are appalling.
Feel for everyone who has lost loved ones in this, it’s bad, but what I meant to say is this is here for the rest of our lives and we have to learn to live with it.
So if I offended anyone I apologise
I'm happy to learn to live with it once we've got it under control. We don't yet, by any stretch.
Once the serious disease burden is a bit more like measles, I'd be inclined to agree with you. Until then, "learn to live with it" seems to mean "ignore it and let other people learn to die with it".
I think that’s the problem it will never get under control.
What do you suggest another lockdown which doesn’t work? "
How do you know it'll never get under control?
Why do you think lockdown doesn't work? Diseases are spread by people being close to each other. Lockdown means less people associate. Or is it like "masks don't work?" Projectiles are stopped by barriers, but masks break the laws of physics cos they're icky. Diseases spread by people being around each other, but because lockdown totes sux, man, lockdown gives viruses magical powers to spread through walls. Is it something like that? 
And no. I don't want lockdown. Masks, distancing, improved contact tracing, paid isolation for testing positive. Much less ruinous than lockdown. Keeps schools open and businesses running. |
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"Don’t want to sound like a grump or any way impressed with the government they are appalling.
Feel for everyone who has lost loved ones in this, it’s bad, but what I meant to say is this is here for the rest of our lives and we have to learn to live with it.
So if I offended anyone I apologise
I'm happy to learn to live with it once we've got it under control. We don't yet, by any stretch.
Once the serious disease burden is a bit more like measles, I'd be inclined to agree with you. Until then, "learn to live with it" seems to mean "ignore it and let other people learn to die with it".
I think that’s the problem it will never get under control.
What do you suggest another lockdown which doesn’t work?
How do you know it'll never get under control?
Why do you think lockdown doesn't work? Diseases are spread by people being close to each other. Lockdown means less people associate. Or is it like "masks don't work?" Projectiles are stopped by barriers, but masks break the laws of physics cos they're icky. Diseases spread by people being around each other, but because lockdown totes sux, man, lockdown gives viruses magical powers to spread through walls. Is it something like that?
And no. I don't want lockdown. Masks, distancing, improved contact tracing, paid isolation for testing positive. Much less ruinous than lockdown. Keeps schools open and businesses running."
It’s being going for nearly 18 months never had it under control from day 1 not with this clown in charge.
Lockdowns last time all it did was ruin businesses economy school children’s development etc etc,
Government can’t afford another furlough as skint probably why they don’t care tbh.
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"Don’t want to sound like a grump or any way impressed with the government they are appalling.
Feel for everyone who has lost loved ones in this, it’s bad, but what I meant to say is this is here for the rest of our lives and we have to learn to live with it.
So if I offended anyone I apologise
I'm happy to learn to live with it once we've got it under control. We don't yet, by any stretch.
Once the serious disease burden is a bit more like measles, I'd be inclined to agree with you. Until then, "learn to live with it" seems to mean "ignore it and let other people learn to die with it".
I think that’s the problem it will never get under control.
What do you suggest another lockdown which doesn’t work?
How do you know it'll never get under control?
Why do you think lockdown doesn't work? Diseases are spread by people being close to each other. Lockdown means less people associate. Or is it like "masks don't work?" Projectiles are stopped by barriers, but masks break the laws of physics cos they're icky. Diseases spread by people being around each other, but because lockdown totes sux, man, lockdown gives viruses magical powers to spread through walls. Is it something like that?
And no. I don't want lockdown. Masks, distancing, improved contact tracing, paid isolation for testing positive. Much less ruinous than lockdown. Keeps schools open and businesses running.
It’s being going for nearly 18 months never had it under control from day 1 not with this clown in charge.
Lockdowns last time all it did was ruin businesses economy school children’s development etc etc,
Government can’t afford another furlough as skint probably why they don’t care tbh.
"
So keeping people away from each other doesn't prevent disease? Fascinating. By what magical powers does the virus spread, then?
And cases were definitely higher in March than January, yeah? Lockdown doing nothing, and all
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Is, our NHS now broken due goverment neglect and bad management"
Maybe but it's not like the NHS doesn't get enough money. Let's put it this way every penny everyone pays in income tax just about covers what the NHS gets to spend.
So off the top of my head in the last 10 years I've probably paid something like 50,60, 70 k for 3 doctor's appointments I know people can argue back and say well I'll need the NHS when I get older maybe that's true
Yes it's nice to have a health service what's free at the point-of-use but I feel we're getting absolutely ripped off for it. |
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"Is, our NHS now broken due goverment neglect and bad management
Maybe but it's not like the NHS doesn't get enough money. Let's put it this way every penny everyone pays in income tax just about covers what the NHS gets to spend.
So off the top of my head in the last 10 years I've probably paid something like 50,60, 70 k for 3 doctor's appointments I know people can argue back and say well I'll need the NHS when I get older maybe that's true
Yes it's nice to have a health service what's free at the point-of-use but I feel we're getting absolutely ripped off for it."
You'll love private health insurance, then  |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Don’t want to sound like a grump or any way impressed with the government they are appalling.
Feel for everyone who has lost loved ones in this, it’s bad, but what I meant to say is this is here for the rest of our lives and we have to learn to live with it.
So if I offended anyone I apologise
I'm happy to learn to live with it once we've got it under control. We don't yet, by any stretch.
Once the serious disease burden is a bit more like measles, I'd be inclined to agree with you. Until then, "learn to live with it" seems to mean "ignore it and let other people learn to die with it".
I think that’s the problem it will never get under control.
What do you suggest another lockdown which doesn’t work?
How do you know it'll never get under control?
Why do you think lockdown doesn't work? Diseases are spread by people being close to each other. Lockdown means less people associate. Or is it like "masks don't work?" Projectiles are stopped by barriers, but masks break the laws of physics cos they're icky. Diseases spread by people being around each other, but because lockdown totes sux, man, lockdown gives viruses magical powers to spread through walls. Is it something like that?
And no. I don't want lockdown. Masks, distancing, improved contact tracing, paid isolation for testing positive. Much less ruinous than lockdown. Keeps schools open and businesses running."
Wales have the highest cases in the uk and along with scotland the most covid rules masks etc how do you explain that? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Get a grip it's time to live with this now. 50000 a year use to die from flu before everything became covid which equate to 136 a day on average but they didn't lock you down due to flu did they
Plus most of them deaths are within 28 days of a positive so doesn't mean covid was cause of death, someone given 7 days to live gets covid on day 6 and dies a day later, guess what he died of??? That's right covid not the actual thing he was given days to live with |
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"Don’t want to sound like a grump or any way impressed with the government they are appalling.
Feel for everyone who has lost loved ones in this, it’s bad, but what I meant to say is this is here for the rest of our lives and we have to learn to live with it.
So if I offended anyone I apologise
I'm happy to learn to live with it once we've got it under control. We don't yet, by any stretch.
Once the serious disease burden is a bit more like measles, I'd be inclined to agree with you. Until then, "learn to live with it" seems to mean "ignore it and let other people learn to die with it".
I think that’s the problem it will never get under control.
What do you suggest another lockdown which doesn’t work?
How do you know it'll never get under control?
Why do you think lockdown doesn't work? Diseases are spread by people being close to each other. Lockdown means less people associate. Or is it like "masks don't work?" Projectiles are stopped by barriers, but masks break the laws of physics cos they're icky. Diseases spread by people being around each other, but because lockdown totes sux, man, lockdown gives viruses magical powers to spread through walls. Is it something like that?
And no. I don't want lockdown. Masks, distancing, improved contact tracing, paid isolation for testing positive. Much less ruinous than lockdown. Keeps schools open and businesses running.Wales have the highest cases in the uk and along with scotland the most covid rules masks etc how do you explain that?"
I don't know the details. And I'm not an epidemiologist.
How do you explain how masks break the laws of physics? Projectiles travel a certain distance unless constrained. By wind, gravity, barriers, etc.
A mask is a barrier. But somehow the laws of physics don't apply to it? Is it magic? |
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"Get a grip it's time to live with this now. 50000 a year use to die from flu before everything became covid which equate to 136 a day on average but they didn't lock you down due to flu did they
Plus most of them deaths are within 28 days of a positive so doesn't mean covid was cause of death, someone given 7 days to live gets covid on day 6 and dies a day later, guess what he died of??? That's right covid not the actual thing he was given days to live with"
If getting a grip means refusing to consider the people around me, then no thanks, you can keep your grip. I find it rather repellent |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Don’t want to sound like a grump or any way impressed with the government they are appalling.
Feel for everyone who has lost loved ones in this, it’s bad, but what I meant to say is this is here for the rest of our lives and we have to learn to live with it.
So if I offended anyone I apologise
I'm happy to learn to live with it once we've got it under control. We don't yet, by any stretch.
Once the serious disease burden is a bit more like measles, I'd be inclined to agree with you. Until then, "learn to live with it" seems to mean "ignore it and let other people learn to die with it".
I think that’s the problem it will never get under control.
What do you suggest another lockdown which doesn’t work?
How do you know it'll never get under control?
Why do you think lockdown doesn't work? Diseases are spread by people being close to each other. Lockdown means less people associate. Or is it like "masks don't work?" Projectiles are stopped by barriers, but masks break the laws of physics cos they're icky. Diseases spread by people being around each other, but because lockdown totes sux, man, lockdown gives viruses magical powers to spread through walls. Is it something like that?
And no. I don't want lockdown. Masks, distancing, improved contact tracing, paid isolation for testing positive. Much less ruinous than lockdown. Keeps schools open and businesses running.Wales have the highest cases in the uk and along with scotland the most covid rules masks etc how do you explain that?
I don't know the details. And I'm not an epidemiologist.
How do you explain how masks break the laws of physics? Projectiles travel a certain distance unless constrained. By wind, gravity, barriers, etc.
A mask is a barrier. But somehow the laws of physics don't apply to it? Is it magic?"
I still wear one in shops as think its only right but the figures don't lie unless everyone in wales are breaking the rules. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
So we should keep NHS waiting lists growing and keep cancelling operations for patients because of covid???
Do people not realise that death from these waiting lists and cancellation will be way more than those from covid when this happens then come back and tell us that lockdown was a good thing |
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"Don’t want to sound like a grump or any way impressed with the government they are appalling.
Feel for everyone who has lost loved ones in this, it’s bad, but what I meant to say is this is here for the rest of our lives and we have to learn to live with it.
So if I offended anyone I apologise
I'm happy to learn to live with it once we've got it under control. We don't yet, by any stretch.
Once the serious disease burden is a bit more like measles, I'd be inclined to agree with you. Until then, "learn to live with it" seems to mean "ignore it and let other people learn to die with it".
I think that’s the problem it will never get under control.
What do you suggest another lockdown which doesn’t work?
How do you know it'll never get under control?
Why do you think lockdown doesn't work? Diseases are spread by people being close to each other. Lockdown means less people associate. Or is it like "masks don't work?" Projectiles are stopped by barriers, but masks break the laws of physics cos they're icky. Diseases spread by people being around each other, but because lockdown totes sux, man, lockdown gives viruses magical powers to spread through walls. Is it something like that?
And no. I don't want lockdown. Masks, distancing, improved contact tracing, paid isolation for testing positive. Much less ruinous than lockdown. Keeps schools open and businesses running.Wales have the highest cases in the uk and along with scotland the most covid rules masks etc how do you explain that?
I don't know the details. And I'm not an epidemiologist.
How do you explain how masks break the laws of physics? Projectiles travel a certain distance unless constrained. By wind, gravity, barriers, etc.
A mask is a barrier. But somehow the laws of physics don't apply to it? Is it magic?I still wear one in shops as think its only right but the figures don't lie unless everyone in wales are breaking the rules."
Figures are multifactorial. Hence, I can't judge and likely neither can you. What do people do in places they don't have to wear masks? How many people get paid leave? What's the testing like compared to other areas? Multi generational housing? Vaccine type, uptake, waning? Are parts of Wales affected by the Immensa scandal (hint, yes)? Etc.
Numbers up doesn't mean masks don't work. Or it might do, once the sums are crunched to try to account for other factors. |
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"So we should keep NHS waiting lists growing and keep cancelling operations for patients because of covid???
Do people not realise that death from these waiting lists and cancellation will be way more than those from covid when this happens then come back and tell us that lockdown was a good thing"
So letting the disease run riot will reduce waiting lists because - let me guess, magic?
The people going to hospital with Covid are somehow providing rather than using NHS resources because lockdowns magically make everything worse, yes?
Or maybe the NHS are trying to recover from dealing with Covid and don't need more. Just a thought |
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"Don’t want to sound like a grump or any way impressed with the government they are appalling.
Feel for everyone who has lost loved ones in this, it’s bad, but what I meant to say is this is here for the rest of our lives and we have to learn to live with it.
So if I offended anyone I apologise
I don't understand learn to live with it.? What should we be doing then differently? Are we not already living with it? Or what needs to happen for us to be considered to be "living with it"?
Just need to get on with our lives as normal I know it’s hard what else can we do?"
Seems to me we are already "getting on with our lives" and have been for a while.
Normal however means different things to different people. Perhaps normal means doing away with the new improved (yet exactly as our mum told us) hygiene practises? Putting people in care homes and not testing them for infectious diseases. Taking a few simple precautions. Or is normal, just ignoring that there is a disease.
I suspect we are not very far away from our new normal right now.
What would be helpful is if the media stopped feeding the divisions just for shits and giggles.
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"Don’t want to sound like a grump or any way impressed with the government they are appalling.
Feel for everyone who has lost loved ones in this, it’s bad, but what I meant to say is this is here for the rest of our lives and we have to learn to live with it.
So if I offended anyone I apologise
I'm happy to learn to live with it once we've got it under control. We don't yet, by any stretch.
Once the serious disease burden is a bit more like measles, I'd be inclined to agree with you. Until then, "learn to live with it" seems to mean "ignore it and let other people learn to die with it".
I think that’s the problem it will never get under control.
What do you suggest another lockdown which doesn’t work?
How do you know it'll never get under control?
Why do you think lockdown doesn't work? Diseases are spread by people being close to each other. Lockdown means less people associate. Or is it like "masks don't work?" Projectiles are stopped by barriers, but masks break the laws of physics cos they're icky. Diseases spread by people being around each other, but because lockdown totes sux, man, lockdown gives viruses magical powers to spread through walls. Is it something like that?
And no. I don't want lockdown. Masks, distancing, improved contact tracing, paid isolation for testing positive. Much less ruinous than lockdown. Keeps schools open and businesses running.Wales have the highest cases in the uk and along with scotland the most covid rules masks etc how do you explain that?
I don't know the details. And I'm not an epidemiologist.
How do you explain how masks break the laws of physics? Projectiles travel a certain distance unless constrained. By wind, gravity, barriers, etc.
A mask is a barrier. But somehow the laws of physics don't apply to it? Is it magic?I still wear one in shops as think its only right but the figures don't lie unless everyone in wales are breaking the rules.
Figures are multifactorial. Hence, I can't judge and likely neither can you. What do people do in places they don't have to wear masks? How many people get paid leave? What's the testing like compared to other areas? Multi generational housing? Vaccine type, uptake, waning? Are parts of Wales affected by the Immensa scandal (hint, yes)? Etc.
Numbers up doesn't mean masks don't work. Or it might do, once the sums are crunched to try to account for other factors. "
I totally agree and have been saying that from the very start when everyone was comparing uk figures with Europe to bash the government we also now know ethnicity comes into the equation too and maybe there are other factors they dont even know about yet. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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So it's OK for those on the waiting lists cancer to get worse or heart Condition to go unnoticed and for them to die then due to nhs neglect of treatment as it wasn't covid related?? |
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"Don’t want to sound like a grump or any way impressed with the government they are appalling.
Feel for everyone who has lost loved ones in this, it’s bad, but what I meant to say is this is here for the rest of our lives and we have to learn to live with it.
So if I offended anyone I apologise
I don't understand learn to live with it.? What should we be doing then differently? Are we not already living with it? Or what needs to happen for us to be considered to be "living with it"?
Just need to get on with our lives as normal I know it’s hard what else can we do?
Seems to me we are already "getting on with our lives" and have been for a while.
Normal however means different things to different people. Perhaps normal means doing away with the new improved (yet exactly as our mum told us) hygiene practises? Putting people in care homes and not testing them for infectious diseases. Taking a few simple precautions. Or is normal, just ignoring that there is a disease.
I suspect we are not very far away from our new normal right now.
What would be helpful is if the media stopped feeding the divisions just for shits and giggles.
"
I'm getting on with an adjusted normal. I mask, and ignore those who shout at me (I wish they'd stop). I meet outdoors or with distance/ventilation. I go grocery shopping at off peak times. I take a lateral flow test at least once a week, and more under some circumstances.
It's really not a lot. And it's temporary. Until when I'm not sure. But I'd rather do a few little things than risk making someone else sick. |
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"Don’t want to sound like a grump or any way impressed with the government they are appalling.
Feel for everyone who has lost loved ones in this, it’s bad, but what I meant to say is this is here for the rest of our lives and we have to learn to live with it.
So if I offended anyone I apologise
I'm happy to learn to live with it once we've got it under control. We don't yet, by any stretch.
Once the serious disease burden is a bit more like measles, I'd be inclined to agree with you. Until then, "learn to live with it" seems to mean "ignore it and let other people learn to die with it".
I think that’s the problem it will never get under control.
What do you suggest another lockdown which doesn’t work?
How do you know it'll never get under control?
Why do you think lockdown doesn't work? Diseases are spread by people being close to each other. Lockdown means less people associate. Or is it like "masks don't work?" Projectiles are stopped by barriers, but masks break the laws of physics cos they're icky. Diseases spread by people being around each other, but because lockdown totes sux, man, lockdown gives viruses magical powers to spread through walls. Is it something like that?
And no. I don't want lockdown. Masks, distancing, improved contact tracing, paid isolation for testing positive. Much less ruinous than lockdown. Keeps schools open and businesses running.Wales have the highest cases in the uk and along with scotland the most covid rules masks etc how do you explain that?
I don't know the details. And I'm not an epidemiologist.
How do you explain how masks break the laws of physics? Projectiles travel a certain distance unless constrained. By wind, gravity, barriers, etc.
A mask is a barrier. But somehow the laws of physics don't apply to it? Is it magic?I still wear one in shops as think its only right but the figures don't lie unless everyone in wales are breaking the rules.
Figures are multifactorial. Hence, I can't judge and likely neither can you. What do people do in places they don't have to wear masks? How many people get paid leave? What's the testing like compared to other areas? Multi generational housing? Vaccine type, uptake, waning? Are parts of Wales affected by the Immensa scandal (hint, yes)? Etc.
Numbers up doesn't mean masks don't work. Or it might do, once the sums are crunched to try to account for other factors. I totally agree and have been saying that from the very start when everyone was comparing uk figures with Europe to bash the government we also now know ethnicity comes into the equation too and maybe there are other factors they dont even know about yet. "
I mean that's a fascinating take |
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"So it's OK for those on the waiting lists cancer to get worse or heart Condition to go unnoticed and for them to die then due to nhs neglect of treatment as it wasn't covid related??"
You know what you can do to help people with cancer and heart conditions?
Reduce the burden on the NHS by weakening the chain of transmission. Wear a mask, keep your distance, ventilate. Reduce the likelihood you catch and spread the virus.
If the virus stops being spread, the NHS will have the resources to deal with other things.
I certainly care about cancer, heart disease, organ transplants, mental health, chronic disease, and more besides. Which is why I'm playing my part in reducing my risk to others. Those who also care should join me  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Point 263 deaths
No where in Europe anywhere near this
Why
"
No 2 countries report there figures the same or test as frequently as we do. We are 28 days within a positive other countries aren't, we don't take into consideration pre-existing health (I.e. someone on end of life dies within that 28 days) these cases in UK are still covid deaths evwm though clearly not the cause but in 28 days other countries they don't count these as covid deaths, plus look at the data deeper some of these deaths were weeks some even months ago |
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By *ohnj21 OP Man
over a year ago
Leeds |
If you look yearly deaths overall you can compare and UK was terrible far more in deaths then
Amy were in Europe.
Why do u try to defend this goverment I voted for them and the e a disgrace.
Are you saying there great |
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"Is, our NHS now broken due goverment neglect and bad management
Maybe but it's not like the NHS doesn't get enough money. Let's put it this way every penny everyone pays in income tax just about covers what the NHS gets to spend.
So off the top of my head in the last 10 years I've probably paid something like 50,60, 70 k for 3 doctor's appointments I know people can argue back and say well I'll need the NHS when I get older maybe that's true
Yes it's nice to have a health service what's free at the point-of-use but I feel we're getting absolutely ripped off for it."
Yep. They get away with an awful lot of bad stuff just because we worship at the alter of the nhs. They do some good stuff to. But that's no excuse for me waiting for 5 months for an acknowledgement of a referral. |
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"Don’t want to sound like a grump or any way impressed with the government they are appalling.
Feel for everyone who has lost loved ones in this, it’s bad, but what I meant to say is this is here for the rest of our lives and we have to learn to live with it.
So if I offended anyone I apologise "
Why do you think that the virus is here for ever? Every other Pandemic that the world has endured has eventually disappeared or reduced to a level where it's deemed irrelevant.
Cal |
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"Is, our NHS now broken due goverment neglect and bad management
Maybe but it's not like the NHS doesn't get enough money. Let's put it this way every penny everyone pays in income tax just about covers what the NHS gets to spend.
So off the top of my head in the last 10 years I've probably paid something like 50,60, 70 k for 3 doctor's appointments I know people can argue back and say well I'll need the NHS when I get older maybe that's true
Yes it's nice to have a health service what's free at the point-of-use but I feel we're getting absolutely ripped off for it.
Yep. They get away with an awful lot of bad stuff just because we worship at the alter of the nhs. They do some good stuff to. But that's no excuse for me waiting for 5 months for an acknowledgement of a referral. "
Reduction in funding compared to need. |
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"Is, our NHS now broken due goverment neglect and bad management
Maybe but it's not like the NHS doesn't get enough money. Let's put it this way every penny everyone pays in income tax just about covers what the NHS gets to spend.
So off the top of my head in the last 10 years I've probably paid something like 50,60, 70 k for 3 doctor's appointments I know people can argue back and say well I'll need the NHS when I get older maybe that's true
Yes it's nice to have a health service what's free at the point-of-use but I feel we're getting absolutely ripped off for it.
Yep. They get away with an awful lot of bad stuff just because we worship at the alter of the nhs. They do some good stuff to. But that's no excuse for me waiting for 5 months for an acknowledgement of a referral.
Reduction in funding compared to need. "
It's nothing to do with funding. It's fucking awful business practise. If I can get a text everytime my GPS is closed or had a flu shot waiting or a covid shot waiting, they can sure as shit send me a text giving me an update on my referral after 5 months. |
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"Is, our NHS now broken due goverment neglect and bad management
Maybe but it's not like the NHS doesn't get enough money. Let's put it this way every penny everyone pays in income tax just about covers what the NHS gets to spend.
So off the top of my head in the last 10 years I've probably paid something like 50,60, 70 k for 3 doctor's appointments I know people can argue back and say well I'll need the NHS when I get older maybe that's true
Yes it's nice to have a health service what's free at the point-of-use but I feel we're getting absolutely ripped off for it.
Yep. They get away with an awful lot of bad stuff just because we worship at the alter of the nhs. They do some good stuff to. But that's no excuse for me waiting for 5 months for an acknowledgement of a referral.
Reduction in funding compared to need.
It's nothing to do with funding. It's fucking awful business practise. If I can get a text everytime my GPS is closed or had a flu shot waiting or a covid shot waiting, they can sure as shit send me a text giving me an update on my referral after 5 months. "
Maybe there's nothing to tell you because you don't have a spot yet - because demand outstrips supply. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"If you look yearly deaths overall you can compare and UK was terrible far more in deaths then
Amy were in Europe.
Why do u try to defend this goverment I voted for them and the e a disgrace.
Are you saying there great "
No im not saying they are great where did you see that? its a pandemic and no country has covered itself in glory and thats not surprising as these things come along very rarely thank god.
As a previous poster recognised there are many factors as to the number of deaths population density, housing, ethnicity, age of population etc add that to different ways of counting deaths.
|
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"We test more
How does that account for the positivity rate over double the rate considered "out of control"?
And does testing cause excess deaths? Is this more magic?"
even you can see that if you are counting deaths as covid within 28 days of being positive you cant count them if you didnt know they had covid 3 weeks before.Its not magic its mathematics. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Point to a high death figure for a day, it can be various reasons. The vast majority died with a positive test, the vast number of the deaths also died with two feet. Death a having two feet isn't a cause, like the majority of tested positive covid deaths.
Last year pre vaccine we still did not go above 2003 death rate per thousand, this year we are still at a very low death rate per thousand. Plus also the average age of death "from" covid I believe still exceeds the average age of death in the UK.
There has been nothing to counter the 40 years of evidence /studies with masks, stopping projectiles yes, but that doesn't mean it stops disease, simulary politeness, being a decent person and not coughing in someone's face or space would be of similar effect and you wouldn't be carrying your snot or flem around with you in your mask. Personally, if people want to wear a mask that's fine by me, non of my business, however if I don't then that should be fine too. We still should be curtious either way. |
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"We test more
How does that account for the positivity rate over double the rate considered "out of control"?
And does testing cause excess deaths? Is this more magic? even you can see that if you are counting deaths as covid within 28 days of being positive you cant count them if you didnt know they had covid 3 weeks before.Its not magic its mathematics."
So look at the death certificate figures, calculated by the ONS, which shows that the vast majority died that way (and indeed more died *of* Covid after the 28 day cut off point - of, in the same way you die of cancer or heart disease or anything else in this country).
Or are death certificates and the way they've been written for decades also wrong? Is it the same magic as masks breaking the laws of physics? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Is, our NHS now broken due goverment neglect and bad management
Maybe but it's not like the NHS doesn't get enough money. Let's put it this way every penny everyone pays in income tax just about covers what the NHS gets to spend.
So off the top of my head in the last 10 years I've probably paid something like 50,60, 70 k for 3 doctor's appointments I know people can argue back and say well I'll need the NHS when I get older maybe that's true
Yes it's nice to have a health service what's free at the point-of-use but I feel we're getting absolutely ripped off for it.
Yep. They get away with an awful lot of bad stuff just because we worship at the alter of the nhs. They do some good stuff to. But that's no excuse for me waiting for 5 months for an acknowledgement of a referral.
Reduction in funding compared to need.
It's nothing to do with funding. It's fucking awful business practise. If I can get a text everytime my GPS is closed or had a flu shot waiting or a covid shot waiting, they can sure as shit send me a text giving me an update on my referral after 5 months. "
My local hospital cost 300 million to rebuild yet we've got to pay 2.5 billion back for it on a pfi deal. And that is just one hospital.
Let's not beat around the bush either let's call it what it is corruption.
https://www.chad.co.uk/news/people/kings-mill-hospitals-ps1m-week-bill-building-and-maintenance-933344
|
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"263
Why are so much worse countries in Europe.
Goverment were spinning figures, going down.
This a bad trends upwards
It's time this goverment resigned its a national disgrace amount of avoidable deaths
After Germany, Poland, Romania who have worse infection figures. The death figure in some countries is not counted in the same way as the UK. When the covid is reduced to nothing and the dust settles then the figures will be worth something, but the likes of Germany will never know as they don't record death figures so have no real historic data to compare against. "
Germany doesn't record death figures?? Really? A modern, European country, famed for everything being "in Ordnung" does not record deaths? Do you have evidence for that?
According to the German Federal Statistical Office (Statistische Bundesamt) seems to have data to compare current death rates with historic data:
"Mortality figures in September 2021: 10% above the median of previous years
According to extrapolated figures of the Federal Statistical Office (Destatis), 77,612 people died in Germany in September 2021. This is 10% above the median of the years 2017 to 2020 for that month (+7,247 cases). This is shown by an ad hoc evaluation of provisional death figures. Applying an extrapolation method to incomplete reports allows first death figures for Germany to be released after roughly one week. In Week 39 (27 September to 3 October) the figures exceeded the median of previous years by 6%."
There is a graph accompanying this statement with various previous years on it.
They do record death data. |
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"Is, our NHS now broken due goverment neglect and bad management
Maybe but it's not like the NHS doesn't get enough money. Let's put it this way every penny everyone pays in income tax just about covers what the NHS gets to spend.
So off the top of my head in the last 10 years I've probably paid something like 50,60, 70 k for 3 doctor's appointments I know people can argue back and say well I'll need the NHS when I get older maybe that's true
Yes it's nice to have a health service what's free at the point-of-use but I feel we're getting absolutely ripped off for it.
Yep. They get away with an awful lot of bad stuff just because we worship at the alter of the nhs. They do some good stuff to. But that's no excuse for me waiting for 5 months for an acknowledgement of a referral.
Reduction in funding compared to need.
It's nothing to do with funding. It's fucking awful business practise. If I can get a text everytime my GPS is closed or had a flu shot waiting or a covid shot waiting, they can sure as shit send me a text giving me an update on my referral after 5 months.
My local hospital cost 300 million to rebuild yet we've got to pay 2.5 billion back for it on a pfi deal. And that is just one hospital.
Let's not beat around the bush either let's call it what it is corruption.
https://www.chad.co.uk/news/people/kings-mill-hospitals-ps1m-week-bill-building-and-maintenance-933344
"
Yep pfi is lending at ridiculously high interest rates. |
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"263
Why are so much worse countries in Europe.
Goverment were spinning figures, going down.
This a bad trends upwards
It's time this goverment resigned its a national disgrace amount of avoidable deaths"
Who do you suggest replaces the Govt. bearing in mind they are the elected party? |
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"Don’t want to sound like a grump or any way impressed with the government they are appalling.
Feel for everyone who has lost loved ones in this, it’s bad, but what I meant to say is this is here for the rest of our lives and we have to learn to live with it.
So if I offended anyone I apologise
Why do you think that the virus is here for ever? Every other Pandemic that the world has endured has eventually disappeared or reduced to a level where it's deemed irrelevant.
Cal"
Reason why I think it be here forever is simple it’s in the same category and bracket as that if the cold/flu.
Has there ever been a cure for these no not yet.
These types of viruses mutate through the air,
This virus is just more pronounced affects people more but millions die from flu/colds ever single year |
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"Don’t want to sound like a grump or any way impressed with the government they are appalling.
Feel for everyone who has lost loved ones in this, it’s bad, but what I meant to say is this is here for the rest of our lives and we have to learn to live with it.
So if I offended anyone I apologise
Why do you think that the virus is here for ever? Every other Pandemic that the world has endured has eventually disappeared or reduced to a level where it's deemed irrelevant.
Cal
Reason why I think it be here forever is simple it’s in the same category and bracket as that if the cold/flu.
Has there ever been a cure for these no not yet.
These types of viruses mutate through the air,
This virus is just more pronounced affects people more but millions die from flu/colds ever single year "
Viruses do not mutate in the air. Mutation occurs when DNA or RNA replicates, which only happens inside a host cell. Mutations require hosts. If we have fewer susceptible people to infect, we will experience fewer mutations. |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"We test more
How does that account for the positivity rate over double the rate considered "out of control"?
And does testing cause excess deaths? Is this more magic? even you can see that if you are counting deaths as covid within 28 days of being positive you cant count them if you didnt know they had covid 3 weeks before.Its not magic its mathematics.
So look at the death certificate figures, calculated by the ONS, which shows that the vast majority died that way (and indeed more died *of* Covid after the 28 day cut off point - of, in the same way you die of cancer or heart disease or anything else in this country).
Or are death certificates and the way they've been written for decades also wrong? Is it the same magic as masks breaking the laws of physics?"
If covid is mentioned on the death certificate they go down as a covid death the person could have been in a end of life care hospice that doesnt matter the way they are counting them. |
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"Don’t want to sound like a grump or any way impressed with the government they are appalling.
Feel for everyone who has lost loved ones in this, it’s bad, but what I meant to say is this is here for the rest of our lives and we have to learn to live with it.
So if I offended anyone I apologise
Why do you think that the virus is here for ever? Every other Pandemic that the world has endured has eventually disappeared or reduced to a level where it's deemed irrelevant.
Cal
Reason why I think it be here forever is simple it’s in the same category and bracket as that if the cold/flu.
Has there ever been a cure for these no not yet.
These types of viruses mutate through the air,
This virus is just more pronounced affects people more but millions die from flu/colds ever single year "
That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works |
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"We test more
How does that account for the positivity rate over double the rate considered "out of control"?
And does testing cause excess deaths? Is this more magic? even you can see that if you are counting deaths as covid within 28 days of being positive you cant count them if you didnt know they had covid 3 weeks before.Its not magic its mathematics.
So look at the death certificate figures, calculated by the ONS, which shows that the vast majority died that way (and indeed more died *of* Covid after the 28 day cut off point - of, in the same way you die of cancer or heart disease or anything else in this country).
Or are death certificates and the way they've been written for decades also wrong? Is it the same magic as masks breaking the laws of physics?If covid is mentioned on the death certificate they go down as a covid death the person could have been in a end of life care hospice that doesnt matter the way they are counting them. "
If Covid is counted as a Covid death per the ONS, they died of Covid... Like anything else
https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/codingofcovid19deaths |
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By *old200Man
over a year ago
Congleton |
I recovered from corvid, (double jabbed) 3 weeks ago. I also ride a motorbike, if I get knocked off that bike next week and don't come back. I'm now a corvid victim?
Because it will be less than 28 days ...... erm |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I recovered from corvid, (double jabbed) 3 weeks ago. I also ride a motorbike, if I get knocked off that bike next week and don't come back. I'm now a corvid victim?
Because it will be less than 28 days ...... erm "
Nope, not the way this crow flies. |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
all around |
Is it really complicated to figure out it's not the government spreading it, it's everyone.
We can all do our part to reduce the spread, do we really need a bunch of overpaid clowns to tell us to wear face coverings and socially distance or maybe we can figure it out ourselves ? |
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"Is it really complicated to figure out it's not the government spreading it, it's everyone.
We can all do our part to reduce the spread, do we really need a bunch of overpaid clowns to tell us to wear face coverings and socially distance or maybe we can figure it out ourselves ?"
Apparently some people do. |
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"its winter folks, remember half of these cases/deaths will be linked to other things like cancer,diabetes etc.
time to move on, were all used to now."
My local hospital last week had a 10hour wait to be seen in AnE they were sending ambulances so other city's as it was quicker. My ex has been in hospital for 13 days ( unrelated to covid) 4 of those days she didn't see a doctor and her ward of some 28 patients
was being staffed by 5 nurses at the best of times because they were all needed to clear the AnE back log covid deaths are a tragedy and shouldn't be happening but many more are dieing because hospitals can't treat people. So if you can "move on" good for you you heatless fuck |
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"its winter folks, remember half of these cases/deaths will be linked to other things like cancer,diabetes etc.
time to move on, were all used to now.
My local hospital last week had a 10hour wait to be seen in AnE they were sending ambulances so other city's as it was quicker. My ex has been in hospital for 13 days ( unrelated to covid) 4 of those days she didn't see a doctor and her ward of some 28 patients
was being staffed by 5 nurses at the best of times because they were all needed to clear the AnE back log covid deaths are a tragedy and shouldn't be happening but many more are dieing because hospitals can't treat people. So if you can "move on" good for you you heatless fuck"
Agree with that... But if the covid numbers are so low.... And the beds aren't full... Why is the rest of the nhs apparently so poor. Its not covid cases so what is it that is causing such delays? |
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"its winter folks, remember half of these cases/deaths will be linked to other things like cancer,diabetes etc.
time to move on, were all used to now.
My local hospital last week had a 10hour wait to be seen in AnE they were sending ambulances so other city's as it was quicker. My ex has been in hospital for 13 days ( unrelated to covid) 4 of those days she didn't see a doctor and her ward of some 28 patients
was being staffed by 5 nurses at the best of times because they were all needed to clear the AnE back log covid deaths are a tragedy and shouldn't be happening but many more are dieing because hospitals can't treat people. So if you can "move on" good for you you heatless fuck
Agree with that... But if the covid numbers are so low.... And the beds aren't full... Why is the rest of the nhs apparently so poor. Its not covid cases so what is it that is causing such delays? "
I don't think Covid numbers are low  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"263
Why are so much worse countries in Europe.
Goverment were spinning figures, going down.
This a bad trends upwards
It's time this goverment resigned its a national disgrace amount of avoidable deaths"
Regardless of what you think about our current government, there is currently no viable alternative!
|
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We can pretend that everything is natural and random, ignoring the facts that highlight how management strategies of this have huge influence on the outcome. We see the range of each country's results around the world, from the abhorrent to the more intelligently managed. The UK is closer to the former
Tens of thousands of avoidable deaths last year, under their watch.
Brazil published a draft report on their management of it, last week and the recommendation was for their president to face charges for murder. It would be reasonable in my opinion. |
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"Is it really complicated to figure out it's not the government spreading it, it's everyone.
We can all do our part to reduce the spread, do we really need a bunch of overpaid clowns to tell us to wear face coverings and socially distance or maybe we can figure it out ourselves ?"
Individuals spread it but we are each of us under the influence of the government.
When they say that madk wearing is advised but very publicly don't wear them themselves, what is the real perceived message? |
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"I recovered from corvid, (double jabbed) 3 weeks ago. I also ride a motorbike, if I get knocked off that bike next week and don't come back. I'm now a corvid victim?
Because it will be less than 28 days ...... erm "
No. The Office for National Statistics 'ONS' explains how deaths are recorded and your death would not have Covid mentioned on the death certificate. |
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"Is it really complicated to figure out it's not the government spreading it, it's everyone.
We can all do our part to reduce the spread, do we really need a bunch of overpaid clowns to tell us to wear face coverings and socially distance or maybe we can figure it out ourselves ?
Individuals spread it but we are each of us under the influence of the government.
When they say that madk wearing is advised but very publicly don't wear them themselves, what is the real perceived message? "
Or you don't have to wear it around people you know.
As if viruses can tell the difference or operate under some sort of code of honour. Wtf |
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"Don’t want to sound like a grump or any way impressed with the government they are appalling.
Feel for everyone who has lost loved ones in this, it’s bad, but what I meant to say is this is here for the rest of our lives and we have to learn to live with it.
So if I offended anyone I apologise
Why do you think that the virus is here for ever? Every other Pandemic that the world has endured has eventually disappeared or reduced to a level where it's deemed irrelevant.
Cal
Reason why I think it be here forever is simple it’s in the same category and bracket as that if the cold/flu.
Has there ever been a cure for these no not yet.
These types of viruses mutate through the air,
This virus is just more pronounced affects people more but millions die from flu/colds ever single year "
That's not correct. Covid has so far killed more than a typical year than colds and flu. Flu deaths, like Covid deaths, are now lower than they otherwise would be, because of preventative measures, includingz but not exclusively, vaccinations.
As others say, they mutate inside infected people, which is why keeping infection numbers low, reduces the chance of new mutations.
It's clear that there are some who perhaps will not get vaccinated for some time, increasing the avoidable overload on the NHS. |
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"Is it really complicated to figure out it's not the government spreading it, it's everyone.
We can all do our part to reduce the spread, do we really need a bunch of overpaid clowns to tell us to wear face coverings and socially distance or maybe we can figure it out ourselves ?
Individuals spread it but we are each of us under the influence of the government.
When they say that madk wearing is advised but very publicly don't wear them themselves, what is the real perceived message?
Or you don't have to wear it around people you know.
As if viruses can tell the difference or operate under some sort of code of honour. Wtf "
It's crass stupidity. The public needed to be given clear instructions and examples from leaders. Leaders largely went absent after the July freedom day and it's emphasised that it's not an important issue any longer. |
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"its winter folks, remember half of these cases/deaths will be linked to other things like cancer,diabetes etc.
time to move on, were all used to now.
My local hospital last week had a 10hour wait to be seen in AnE they were sending ambulances so other city's as it was quicker. My ex has been in hospital for 13 days ( unrelated to covid) 4 of those days she didn't see a doctor and her ward of some 28 patients
was being staffed by 5 nurses at the best of times because they were all needed to clear the AnE back log covid deaths are a tragedy and shouldn't be happening but many more are dieing because hospitals can't treat people. So if you can "move on" good for you you heatless fuck
Agree with that... But if the covid numbers are so low.... And the beds aren't full... Why is the rest of the nhs apparently so poor. Its not covid cases so what is it that is causing such delays?
I don't think Covid numbers are low "
But that's what we have been told for over 6 months now.. The vaccines such a success that hospital admissions are being kept low.... Something like 7000 beds occupied by patients with covid out of 90000...they can't have it both ways. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think there’s a few answers to your question. Out population density is an issue, whilst other European countries obviously have cities etc we have them quite tightly packed, therefore we have greater transmission and infection rates. Socially to put it bluntly we aren’t as disciplined. Theres been a few studies on lockdown behaviour and whereas in say Italy and Spain where behaviour regarding distancing, isolation, masks etc is strictly adhered to, in England we are definitely second best and have actually got worst over time. The attitudes in the forums are lived in day to day life and as such spread is far greater than other countries.
There is also a question of high dependency care ratios, when you look at provision in mainland Europe most countries have specialists and equipment on a ratio which means we have the same provision but for double the numbers of population. In reality this plays out in the form of introducing the most high end treatments much later in a patients care simply because that’s the only way our manpower can deliver it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
But that's what we have been told for over 6 months now.. The vaccines such a success that hospital admissions are being kept low.... Something like 7000 beds occupied by patients with covid out of 90000...they can't have it both ways. "
You need to be careful with the ‘beds’ figures, these include equipment in storage and in no way reflect the number of patients our teams can deal with. |
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"its winter folks, remember half of these cases/deaths will be linked to other things like cancer,diabetes etc.
time to move on, were all used to now.
My local hospital last week had a 10hour wait to be seen in AnE they were sending ambulances so other city's as it was quicker. My ex has been in hospital for 13 days ( unrelated to covid) 4 of those days she didn't see a doctor and her ward of some 28 patients
was being staffed by 5 nurses at the best of times because they were all needed to clear the AnE back log covid deaths are a tragedy and shouldn't be happening but many more are dieing because hospitals can't treat people. So if you can "move on" good for you you heatless fuck
Agree with that... But if the covid numbers are so low.... And the beds aren't full... Why is the rest of the nhs apparently so poor. Its not covid cases so what is it that is causing such delays?
I don't think Covid numbers are low
But that's what we have been told for over 6 months now.. The vaccines such a success that hospital admissions are being kept low.... Something like 7000 beds occupied by patients with covid out of 90000...they can't have it both ways. "
1. The government tell lies
2. Covid has taken a toll on the NHS staff.
3. A backlog has been created by everyone having to drop everything to deal with Covid
4. Covid requires much more intensive infection control procedures which take up time and energy
5. If looking at ICU, I've read that Covid patients spend much, much longer in there than others who are in ICU, which chews up resources. (I'm not saying they shouldn't have them, just longer stay means less beds for other people) |
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"Is, our NHS now broken due goverment neglect and bad management
Maybe but it's not like the NHS doesn't get enough money. Let's put it this way every penny everyone pays in income tax just about covers what the NHS gets to spend.
So off the top of my head in the last 10 years I've probably paid something like 50,60, 70 k for 3 doctor's appointments I know people can argue back and say well I'll need the NHS when I get older maybe that's true
Yes it's nice to have a health service what's free at the point-of-use but I feel we're getting absolutely ripped off for it.
Yep. They get away with an awful lot of bad stuff just because we worship at the alter of the nhs. They do some good stuff to. But that's no excuse for me waiting for 5 months for an acknowledgement of a referral.
Reduction in funding compared to need.
It's nothing to do with funding. It's fucking awful business practise. If I can get a text everytime my GPS is closed or had a flu shot waiting or a covid shot waiting, they can sure as shit send me a text giving me an update on my referral after 5 months.
My local hospital cost 300 million to rebuild yet we've got to pay 2.5 billion back for it on a pfi deal. And that is just one hospital.
Let's not beat around the bush either let's call it what it is corruption.
https://www.chad.co.uk/news/people/kings-mill-hospitals-ps1m-week-bill-building-and-maintenance-933344
"
The PFI mismanagement is a legacy of the Blair and Brown clowns! |
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"We test more
How does that account for the positivity rate over double the rate considered "out of control"?
And does testing cause excess deaths? Is this more magic? even you can see that if you are counting deaths as covid within 28 days of being positive you cant count them if you didnt know they had covid 3 weeks before.Its not magic its mathematics.
So look at the death certificate figures, calculated by the ONS, which shows that the vast majority died that way (and indeed more died *of* Covid after the 28 day cut off point - of, in the same way you die of cancer or heart disease or anything else in this country).
Or are death certificates and the way they've been written for decades also wrong? Is it the same magic as masks breaking the laws of physics?If covid is mentioned on the death certificate they go down as a covid death the person could have been in a end of life care hospice that doesnt matter the way they are counting them.
If Covid is counted as a Covid death per the ONS, they died of Covid... Like anything else
https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/codingofcovid19deaths"
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"263
Why are so much worse countries in Europe.
Goverment were spinning figures, going down.
This a bad trends upwards
It's time this goverment resigned its a national disgrace amount of avoidable deaths"
You know this was t one days figures. This is also people who had covid in the last four weeks.
NOT DIED OF COVID. |
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"I recovered from corvid, (double jabbed) 3 weeks ago. I also ride a motorbike, if I get knocked off that bike next week and don't come back. I'm now a corvid victim?
Because it will be less than 28 days ...... erm "
Yes you would but if you suffered from covid and died of it 29 days or more later you wouldn't count on the that count of covid victims. |
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"its winter folks, remember half of these cases/deaths will be linked to other things like cancer,diabetes etc.
time to move on, were all used to now.
The families and loved ones of those who died today are not "used to it" and not ready to "move on".
We need to all treat this pandemic more seriously again or we will be back where we were previously
I have had a close loved one who died as a direct result of covid however we do need to learn to live with this virus as we have countless other diseases and virus throughout time. Nothing will lessen the hurt but sadly and I know this will be very unpopular but as with all things the strongest survive "
The main way that we have learned to live with countless other diseases and viruses throughout time is by lots of people dying.
Or here's a thought. We could learn to live with it by getting vaccinated and taking measures to reduce transmission. You know, so more people could actually live, instead of you know, dying? |
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"its winter folks, remember half of these cases/deaths will be linked to other things like cancer,diabetes etc.
time to move on, were all used to now.
The families and loved ones of those who died today are not "used to it" and not ready to "move on".
We need to all treat this pandemic more seriously again or we will be back where we were previously
I have had a close loved one who died as a direct result of covid however we do need to learn to live with this virus as we have countless other diseases and virus throughout time. Nothing will lessen the hurt but sadly and I know this will be very unpopular but as with all things the strongest survive
The main way that we have learned to live with countless other diseases and viruses throughout time is by lots of people dying.
Or here's a thought. We could learn to live with it by getting vaccinated and taking measures to reduce transmission. You know, so more people could actually live, instead of you know, dying?"
Stop making sense |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The uk have done 321000000 tests.
5x more than any other country. The more you test the more you find. Plus there are many occupations that require once or twice weekly tests. The stats come from the ons. Dont forget its positive tests not sick people. We also record deaths as covid if you die from any cause within 28days of a positive test |
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"The uk have done 321000000 tests.
5x more than any other country. The more you test the more you find. Plus there are many occupations that require once or twice weekly tests. The stats come from the ons. Dont forget its positive tests not sick people. We also record deaths as covid if you die from any cause within 28days of a positive test "
You are right that we have the highest testing rate per capita, but not in total. Most European use similar ways to count covid deaths, some countries use a lot more sensitive way to count covid deaths eg Belgium used until fairly recently a headline figure that includes anyone suspected of dying of covid. The uk publishes lots of ways of counting covid deaths. The 28 day one is considered to be fairly accurate. For every person that die under a bus that is counted there is a person that takes longer than 28 days to die of covid. If you want to compare countries covid death rates maybe excess deaths would be a better measure, although things like lockdowns and social measures lower death rates of other things not just covid. |
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"The uk have done 321000000 tests.
5x more than any other country. The more you test the more you find. Plus there are many occupations that require once or twice weekly tests. The stats come from the ons. Dont forget its positive tests not sick people. We also record deaths as covid if you die from any cause within 28days of a positive test "
Yeah the numbers are really bumped up by the two people whose parachutes didn't open, the guy who was run over by the number 9 bus, someone who fell in the sea, and a group of OAPs eaten by a lion on a day out at the zoo. Or just maybe a lot of those who had been living very stablely with background illnesses such as diabetes, cancer in remission, kidney dialysis, were only pushed over the edge by the covid. Saying that the covid had nothing to do with the deaths is like saying that somebody in a motorway pile up died of heart failure, nothing to do with the steering wheel column impaling them through the chest. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The uk have done 321000000 tests.
5x more than any other country. The more you test the more you find. Plus there are many occupations that require once or twice weekly tests. The stats come from the ons. Dont forget its positive tests not sick people. We also record deaths as covid if you die from any cause within 28days of a positive test
You are right that we have the highest testing rate per capita, but not in total. Most European use similar ways to count covid deaths, some countries use a lot more sensitive way to count covid deaths eg Belgium used until fairly recently a headline figure that includes anyone suspected of dying of covid. The uk publishes lots of ways of counting covid deaths. The 28 day one is considered to be fairly accurate. For every person that die under a bus that is counted there is a person that takes longer than 28 days to die of covid. If you want to compare countries covid death rates maybe excess deaths would be a better measure, although things like lockdowns and social measures lower death rates of other things not just covid."
The death rate per thousand is the only true measure of death rate, its independent of population size. Excess deaths is not a reliable measure. Its interesting having a look over the past years..... |
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"The uk have done 321000000 tests.
5x more than any other country. The more you test the more you find. Plus there are many occupations that require once or twice weekly tests. The stats come from the ons. Dont forget its positive tests not sick people. We also record deaths as covid if you die from any cause within 28days of a positive test
You are right that we have the highest testing rate per capita, but not in total. Most European use similar ways to count covid deaths, some countries use a lot more sensitive way to count covid deaths eg Belgium used until fairly recently a headline figure that includes anyone suspected of dying of covid. The uk publishes lots of ways of counting covid deaths. The 28 day one is considered to be fairly accurate. For every person that die under a bus that is counted there is a person that takes longer than 28 days to die of covid. If you want to compare countries covid death rates maybe excess deaths would be a better measure, although things like lockdowns and social measures lower death rates of other things not just covid.
The death rate per thousand is the only true measure of death rate, its independent of population size. Excess deaths is not a reliable measure. Its interesting having a look over the past years..... "
I meant excess death per capita. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I know, but the death numbers are higher in comparison to the past five year period, but not in the last 10-20 year period. Numbers on the same death rate will an increasing population will always increase regardless as the population increases. That's why its an unreliable measure of death. |
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"I know, but the death numbers are higher in comparison to the past five year period, but not in the last 10-20 year period. Numbers on the same death rate will an increasing population will always increase regardless as the population increases. That's why its an unreliable measure of death. "
death rates per capita have dropped pretty much continuously since the late 70s, average life expectancy follows the same trend. Down from 12 deaths per 1000 down to a low of 8.7 in 2011. They have crept back to just over 9 upto 2019 probably due to 10 years of austerity and health budget cuts. They it suddenly shot up to over 10 per 1000 in 2020 a figure not seen the 90s. |
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"I know, but the death numbers are higher in comparison to the past five year period, but not in the last 10-20 year period. Numbers on the same death rate will an increasing population will always increase regardless as the population increases. That's why its an unreliable measure of death.
death rates per capita have dropped pretty much continuously since the late 70s, average life expectancy follows the same trend. Down from 12 deaths per 1000 down to a low of 8.7 in 2011. They have crept back to just over 9 upto 2019 probably due to 10 years of austerity and health budget cuts. They it suddenly shot up to over 10 per 1000 in 2020 a figure not seen the 90s."
"Creative" statistics is the bane of my existence.
It's lower than decades ago therefore ignore the other evidence that goes into it
I once had someone tell me that banning some guns increased violence in Australia because of one tiny (temporary) blip in one section of the crime statistics.
That's not how any of this works |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The Government didn’t cause Covid or force people to catch it. There’s a simple reason why we’re the worst in Europe for infections and deaths. Go into any supermarket or any shop for that matter and see how many people are maxed up…..very few.
We all have responsibilities for both our own welfare and that of others.
The quicker legislation is in place to make people wear masks and keep their distance the better.
And get vaccinated!!!! |
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"The Government didn’t cause Covid or force people to catch it. There’s a simple reason why we’re the worst in Europe for infections and deaths. Go into any supermarket or any shop for that matter and see how many people are maxed up…..very few.
We all have responsibilities for both our own welfare and that of others.
The quicker legislation is in place to make people wear masks and keep their distance the better.
And get vaccinated!!!!"
Who removed the restrictions on masks?
Who claimed in the House of Commons that masking was virtue signalling?
Who said that friends don't give friends Covid (I forget the exact wording, it was appropriately Dickensian)? |
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By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"The Government didn’t cause Covid or force people to catch it. There’s a simple reason why we’re the worst in Europe for infections and deaths. Go into any supermarket or any shop for that matter and see how many people are maxed up…..very few.
We all have responsibilities for both our own welfare and that of others.
The quicker legislation is in place to make people wear masks and keep their distance the better.
And get vaccinated!!!!"
This |
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