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How we report figures.
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Anyone else feel the figures are completely reported incorrectly.
I am going by personal experience.
A close relative of mine last year needed an emergency op, due to complications related to a previous cancer illness/op.
Went down for the op but when woke up was told unfortunately it was worse than what they thought and was unable to help and told he was terminally ill. Pcr test also confirmed he had covid whilst in hospital 11 days later he died of the complications of cancer in a hospice but had no covid symptoms and no covid hospital treatment.
So he went down as being in hospital with covid (which technically is true as he was in hospital for somthing else but caught covid, but by no means was that the actual reason for being in hospital)
And also went down as a covid death stat as said on death certificate that he died of cancer and was covid positive.
Now isnt it time we change the way covid hospitalizations and deaths are counted in figures? |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
all around |
"Anyone else feel the figures are completely reported incorrectly.
I am going by personal experience.
A close relative of mine last year needed an emergency op, due to complications related to a previous cancer illness/op.
Went down for the op but when woke up was told unfortunately it was worse than what they thought and was unable to help and told he was terminally ill. Pcr test also confirmed he had covid whilst in hospital 11 days later he died of the complications of cancer in a hospice but had no covid symptoms and no covid hospital treatment.
So he went down as being in hospital with covid (which technically is true as he was in hospital for somthing else but caught covid, but by no means was that the actual reason for being in hospital)
And also went down as a covid death stat as said on death certificate that he died of cancer and was covid positive.
Now isnt it time we change the way covid hospitalizations and deaths are counted in figures?"
I thought everyone knew by now that although he was Covid positive he certainly wouldn't be counted as died of COVID-19, it's the primary cause that counts. |
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"Anyone else feel the figures are completely reported incorrectly.
I am going by personal experience.
A close relative of mine last year needed an emergency op, due to complications related to a previous cancer illness/op.
Went down for the op but when woke up was told unfortunately it was worse than what they thought and was unable to help and told he was terminally ill. Pcr test also confirmed he had covid whilst in hospital 11 days later he died of the complications of cancer in a hospice but had no covid symptoms and no covid hospital treatment.
So he went down as being in hospital with covid (which technically is true as he was in hospital for somthing else but caught covid, but by no means was that the actual reason for being in hospital)
And also went down as a covid death stat as said on death certificate that he died of cancer and was covid positive.
Now isnt it time we change the way covid hospitalizations and deaths are counted in figures?
I thought everyone knew by now that although he was Covid positive he certainly wouldn't be counted as died of COVID-19, it's the primary cause that counts."
Not what his doctor told us!!
So todays figures on the .gov site that says "78 Deaths within 28 days of positive test" are in fact covid as primary cause? |
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"Surely he'll still be counted in the "died within 28 days" stat?"
In the OP scenario, that individual would be a "died with" rather than "died of". A lot of people are very fixated on the difference between these two descriptors. |
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There are different ways of reporting numbers. He would be counted under the died within 28 days of positive covid test, but someone who took longer than 28 days to die from covid which can happen especially in younger people wouldn't be counted. I think we all agree in this case it is primarily cancer that caused death,technically they died with cancer not of cancer. |
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"Surely he'll still be counted in the "died within 28 days" stat?
In the OP scenario, that individual would be a "died with" rather than "died of". A lot of people are very fixated on the difference between these two descriptors. "
I don't keep up with the media and the stats and haven't for a while that's why I asked 
Sorry for your loss OP  |
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"Surely he'll still be counted in the "died within 28 days" stat?
In the OP scenario, that individual would be a "died with" rather than "died of". A lot of people are very fixated on the difference between these two descriptors. "
But these are how they are repoted and it is misleading. People are fixated with the figures that are released and how they are reported rather than the difference between the two. |
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"Surely he'll still be counted in the "died within 28 days" stat?
In the OP scenario, that individual would be a "died with" rather than "died of". A lot of people are very fixated on the difference between these two descriptors. I don't keep up with the media and the stats and haven't for a while that's why I asked
Sorry for your loss OP "
Thank you. |
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By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"Anyone else feel the figures are completely reported incorrectly.
I am going by personal experience.
A close relative of mine last year needed an emergency op, due to complications related to a previous cancer illness/op.
Went down for the op but when woke up was told unfortunately it was worse than what they thought and was unable to help and told he was terminally ill. Pcr test also confirmed he had covid whilst in hospital 11 days later he died of the complications of cancer in a hospice but had no covid symptoms and no covid hospital treatment.
So he went down as being in hospital with covid (which technically is true as he was in hospital for somthing else but caught covid, but by no means was that the actual reason for being in hospital)
And also went down as a covid death stat as said on death certificate that he died of cancer and was covid positive.
Now isnt it time we change the way covid hospitalizations and deaths are counted in figures?"
He wouldn’t go down as a covid death stat if he/she died of cancer.
Covid will be mentioned on the death certificate, but not recorded as the primary cause of death.
If you check the ONS website, there are over 20 million people with covid on their death certificates, but those 20 million have not been included in the total U.K. covid deaths.
Currently:
Number of people with covid on their death certificate = 172,657
Total U.K. covid deaths = 148,851
The relative you are referring to would be among the remaining 23,806 who died of cancer (or something else) and who also tested for covid, but covid is not the primary cause of death. |
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"Anyone else feel the figures are completely reported incorrectly.
I am going by personal experience.
A close relative of mine last year needed an emergency op, due to complications related to a previous cancer illness/op.
Went down for the op but when woke up was told unfortunately it was worse than what they thought and was unable to help and told he was terminally ill. Pcr test also confirmed he had covid whilst in hospital 11 days later he died of the complications of cancer in a hospice but had no covid symptoms and no covid hospital treatment.
So he went down as being in hospital with covid (which technically is true as he was in hospital for somthing else but caught covid, but by no means was that the actual reason for being in hospital)
And also went down as a covid death stat as said on death certificate that he died of cancer and was covid positive.
Now isnt it time we change the way covid hospitalizations and deaths are counted in figures?
He wouldn’t go down as a covid death stat if he/she died of cancer.
Covid will be mentioned on the death certificate, but not recorded as the primary cause of death.
If you check the ONS website, there are over 20 million people with covid on their death certificates, but those 20 million have not been included in the total U.K. covid deaths.
Currently:
Number of people with covid on their death certificate = 172,657
Total U.K. covid deaths = 148,851
The relative you are referring to would be among the remaining 23,806 who died of cancer (or something else) and who also tested for covid, but covid is not the primary cause of death. "
So why does it say on gov website
"Deaths within 28 days of positive test"
He would of been in that stat and that is what figures are released daily. |
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"My main concern are the way hospitalizations are reported.
Surely these should be accurate as they are deciding factors in restrictions and future lockdowns."
They literally say how many people are in hospital who have COVID. Whether they're there primarily for COVID treatment or "incidentally", they are still occupying a hospital bed and need to be nursed in a labour intensive and time consuming manner, to avoid spreading it around the rest of the hospital. |
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"My main concern are the way hospitalizations are reported.
Surely these should be accurate as they are deciding factors in restrictions and future lockdowns.
They literally say how many people are in hospital who have COVID. Whether they're there primarily for COVID treatment or "incidentally", they are still occupying a hospital bed and need to be nursed in a labour intensive and time consuming manner, to avoid spreading it around the rest of the hospital. "
Surely these should be accurate as they are deciding factors in restrictions and future lockdowns. Even a doctor on sky news was challenged about the figures and said they need to be looked at more accurately. |
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"My main concern are the way hospitalizations are reported.
Surely these should be accurate as they are deciding factors in restrictions and future lockdowns.
They literally say how many people are in hospital who have COVID. Whether they're there primarily for COVID treatment or "incidentally", they are still occupying a hospital bed and need to be nursed in a labour intensive and time consuming manner, to avoid spreading it around the rest of the hospital.
Surely these should be accurate as they are deciding factors in restrictions and future lockdowns. Even a doctor on sky news was challenged about the figures and said they need to be looked at more accurately."
In what way are the current figures inaccurate? It's irrelevant as to whether the COVID positive people in hospital require COVID ICU or are recovering from an appendix op but happen to be COVID positive. Both patients have COVID and both require additional resources and staffing. |
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"
If you check the ONS website, there are over 20 million people with covid on their death certificates, but those 20 million have not been included in the total U.K. covid deaths.
Currently:
Number of people with covid on their death certificate = 172,657
Total U.K. covid deaths = 148,851
The relative you are referring to would be among the remaining 23,806 who died of cancer (or something else) and who also tested for covid, but covid is not the primary cause of death. "
There has not been 20 million deaths in the UK in the last two years.
There are around 500,000 - 600,000 deaths per year. |
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"My main concern are the way hospitalizations are reported.
Surely these should be accurate as they are deciding factors in restrictions and future lockdowns.
They literally say how many people are in hospital who have COVID. Whether they're there primarily for COVID treatment or "incidentally", they are still occupying a hospital bed and need to be nursed in a labour intensive and time consuming manner, to avoid spreading it around the rest of the hospital.
Surely these should be accurate as they are deciding factors in restrictions and future lockdowns. Even a doctor on sky news was challenged about the figures and said they need to be looked at more accurately.
In what way are the current figures inaccurate? It's irrelevant as to whether the COVID positive people in hospital require COVID ICU or are recovering from an appendix op but happen to be COVID positive. Both patients have COVID and both require additional resources and staffing. "
I didnt realise someone with appendix op who is covid positive (but not requiring covid treatment would require an additional treatment to someone with appendix op who is covid negative. |
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By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"Anyone else feel the figures are completely reported incorrectly.
I am going by personal experience.
A close relative of mine last year needed an emergency op, due to complications related to a previous cancer illness/op.
Went down for the op but when woke up was told unfortunately it was worse than what they thought and was unable to help and told he was terminally ill. Pcr test also confirmed he had covid whilst in hospital 11 days later he died of the complications of cancer in a hospice but had no covid symptoms and no covid hospital treatment.
So he went down as being in hospital with covid (which technically is true as he was in hospital for somthing else but caught covid, but by no means was that the actual reason for being in hospital)
And also went down as a covid death stat as said on death certificate that he died of cancer and was covid positive.
Now isnt it time we change the way covid hospitalizations and deaths are counted in figures?
He wouldn’t go down as a covid death stat if he/she died of cancer.
Covid will be mentioned on the death certificate, but not recorded as the primary cause of death.
If you check the ONS website, there are over 20 million people with covid on their death certificates, but those 20 million have not been included in the total U.K. covid deaths.
Currently:
Number of people with covid on their death certificate = 172,657
Total U.K. covid deaths = 148,851
The relative you are referring to would be among the remaining 23,806 who died of cancer (or something else) and who also tested for covid, but covid is not the primary cause of death.
So why does it say on gov website
"Deaths within 28 days of positive test"
He would of been in that stat and that is what figures are released daily."
Deaths within 28 days of positive test = where covid is the underlying cause of death.
This is an Excerpt from the ONS:
**"Within our Deaths Registered Weekly publication, we publish deaths where COVID-19 is the underlying cause of death and where COVID-19 has been mentioned on the death Certificate."**
The ONS does distinguish between when covid is the underlying cause of death, from when covid is just mentioned on a death certificate because someone tests positive but covid is not the underlying cause of death. |
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By *D835Man
over a year ago
London |
"
If you check the ONS website, there are over 20 million people with covid on their death certificates, but those 20 million have not been included in the total U.K. covid deaths.
Currently:
Number of people with covid on their death certificate = 172,657
Total U.K. covid deaths = 148,851
The relative you are referring to would be among the remaining 23,806 who died of cancer (or something else) and who also tested for covid, but covid is not the primary cause of death.
There has not been 20 million deaths in the UK in the last two years.
There are around 500,000 - 600,000 deaths per year."
I meant 20 thousand not million ( was a mistake) |
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"Anyone else feel the figures are completely reported incorrectly.
I am going by personal experience.
A close relative of mine last year needed an emergency op, due to complications related to a previous cancer illness/op.
Went down for the op but when woke up was told unfortunately it was worse than what they thought and was unable to help and told he was terminally ill. Pcr test also confirmed he had covid whilst in hospital 11 days later he died of the complications of cancer in a hospice but had no covid symptoms and no covid hospital treatment.
So he went down as being in hospital with covid (which technically is true as he was in hospital for somthing else but caught covid, but by no means was that the actual reason for being in hospital)
And also went down as a covid death stat as said on death certificate that he died of cancer and was covid positive.
Now isnt it time we change the way covid hospitalizations and deaths are counted in figures?
He wouldn’t go down as a covid death stat if he/she died of cancer.
Covid will be mentioned on the death certificate, but not recorded as the primary cause of death.
If you check the ONS website, there are over 20 million people with covid on their death certificates, but those 20 million have not been included in the total U.K. covid deaths.
Currently:
Number of people with covid on their death certificate = 172,657
Total U.K. covid deaths = 148,851
The relative you are referring to would be among the remaining 23,806 who died of cancer (or something else) and who also tested for covid, but covid is not the primary cause of death.
So why does it say on gov website
"Deaths within 28 days of positive test"
He would of been in that stat and that is what figures are released daily.
Deaths within 28 days of positive test = where covid is the underlying cause of death.
This is an Excerpt from the ONS:
**"Within our Deaths Registered Weekly publication, we publish deaths where COVID-19 is the underlying cause of death and where COVID-19 has been mentioned on the death Certificate."**
The ONS does distinguish between when covid is the underlying cause of death, from when covid is just mentioned on a death certificate because someone tests positive but covid is not the underlying cause of death."
Ok. Thanks for the info. |
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As has been covered here very extensively, the Office for National Statistics ONS has a very clear and valid methodology for reporting of deaths and statistics, including Covid. Review their concise explanation, before claims that they are wrong.
It is very different and reported differently, where Covid is the main cause of death m, versus where it's an underlying factor Get their definitions and clear advice. Ultimately the GP writing the death certificate will record it based on their expertise. And the ONS summarise this for statistical purposes.
Have you read their explanation OP? |
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"My main concern are the way hospitalizations are reported.
Surely these should be accurate as they are deciding factors in restrictions and future lockdowns.
They literally say how many people are in hospital who have COVID. Whether they're there primarily for COVID treatment or "incidentally", they are still occupying a hospital bed and need to be nursed in a labour intensive and time consuming manner, to avoid spreading it around the rest of the hospital.
Surely these should be accurate as they are deciding factors in restrictions and future lockdowns. Even a doctor on sky news was challenged about the figures and said they need to be looked at more accurately.
In what way are the current figures inaccurate? It's irrelevant as to whether the COVID positive people in hospital require COVID ICU or are recovering from an appendix op but happen to be COVID positive. Both patients have COVID and both require additional resources and staffing.
I didnt realise someone with appendix op who is covid positive (but not requiring covid treatment would require an additional treatment to someone with appendix op who is covid negative."
Being COVID positive requires barrier nursing in a separate hospital area, which is very staff and labour intensive compared to nursing on a regular, open ward. |
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I don’t think there is a problem with the way the data is reported on the covid government website or ONS website both report the differences between with and due to covid
The problem is most people won’t look at this data and only get the information from mainstream media who don’t split out the two. This i believe drives an irrational fear in people because all they see is a huge number which leads them to believe covid is the most dangerous thing in the world, when actually hospitalisation or death from covid is extremely rare.
Its right to be cautious but some just go completely over board. |
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"As has been covered here very extensively, the Office for National Statistics ONS has a very clear and valid methodology for reporting of deaths and statistics, including Covid. Review their concise explanation, before claims that they are wrong.
It is very different and reported differently, where Covid is the main cause of death m, versus where it's an underlying factor Get their definitions and clear advice. Ultimately the GP writing the death certificate will record it based on their expertise. And the ONS summarise this for statistical purposes.
Have you read their explanation OP? "
"Claims that are wrong", just going by what the doctor told us over a year ago. Whos explanation?
The doctors, no we didnt at the time. Was alot to take in. |
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