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Are variants getting weaker?
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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
That is how it normally goes and feels what is happening, usually the 1st variant is the strongest one and when you listen to drs like campbell, angelique and even who reports that too, it feels like this year the variants are running out its course, which is good  |
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No. The different variants will always have little pools of infection across the world. Same as influenza.
This is the reason why the flu jab is made up of 4 different flu strains, 2020/21 was recommended to be made from strains in
Hawaii
Hong Kong
Washington
Phuket
In order to give us the best protection.
now it's mutated into Omicron I expect to see other strains with the same mutations appear over the world
We just need to sort the self isolating period out now
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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
"No. The different variants will always have little pools of infection across the world. Same as influenza.
This is the reason why the flu jab is made up of 4 different flu strains, 2020/21 was recommended to be made from strains in
Hawaii
Hong Kong
Washington
Phuket
In order to give us the best protection.
now it's mutated into Omicron I expect to see other strains with the same mutations appear over the world
We just need to sort the self isolating period out now
"
The symptoms are getting milder though. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No. The different variants will always have little pools of infection across the world. Same as influenza.
This is the reason why the flu jab is made up of 4 different flu strains, 2020/21 was recommended to be made from strains in
Hawaii
Hong Kong
Washington
Phuket
In order to give us the best protection.
now it's mutated into Omicron I expect to see other strains with the same mutations appear over the world
We just need to sort the self isolating period out now
The symptoms are getting milder though."
Yes, but why would you want to socialise if you're ill? |
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Mutations occur at random. Which new variants become dominant has a lot to do with how transmissible the virus is and much less to do with how badly it affects the host. The 2 are linked though, when a host is badly affected they tend not to be mixing with others, this puts a selection pressure towards strains the cause milder illness. However as I said mutations are random, a strain that causes mild symptoms for a long period before becoming more serious could yet arise. I know people who had very mild symptoms for over a week before going on to developing some really unpleasant few days of illness. |
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If viruses mutated in 1 direction only, towards milder clusters of symptoms or variants, we'd never need to bother about them, once that direction was underway. If we have flu variations for a few years, we could still get 1 god almighty killer emerge, that we have no immunity to.
I don't know which scientific research papers you've studied Shag, as we should stick to just current peer reviewed evidence, to guide our understanding. There are too many self-interested people who aren't relevant experts currently, who are manipulating lots of people to believe what is often dangerous nonsense.
Viruses can mutate when replicating in host cells. There's no definite path that they stick to, when mutating. Most of them die off but others do not, later becoming the variant that is dominant, through their successful reproduction that's most advantageous to that. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Mutations occur at random. Which new variants become dominant has a lot to do with how transmissible the virus is and much less to do with how badly it affects the host. The 2 are linked though, when a host is badly affected they tend not to be mixing with others, this puts a selection pressure towards strains the cause milder illness. However as I said mutations are random, a strain that causes mild symptoms for a long period before becoming more serious could yet arise. I know people who had very mild symptoms for over a week before going on to developing some really unpleasant few days of illness."
Interesting. This is why we have to hope something like Ebola never mutates to having a longer “gestation” period that allows it to transmit and be carried around the world before the serious symptoms kick in. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think the most vulnerable to this virus should have every medicine made available to them should they catch it, and the rest of us carry on as normal. We all go to work with a cold and the majority of us now only react to covid with cold symptoms, and by making us all stay off work with such minor symptoms is crippling societys workforce. |
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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
"I think the most vulnerable to this virus should have every medicine made available to them should they catch it, and the rest of us carry on as normal. We all go to work with a cold and the majority of us now only react to covid with cold symptoms, and by making us all stay off work with such minor symptoms is crippling societys workforce. "
Yes. I also think that this is the best way to move forward  |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"I think the most vulnerable to this virus should have every medicine made available to them should they catch it, and the rest of us carry on as normal. We all go to work with a cold and the majority of us now only react to covid with cold symptoms, and by making us all stay off work with such minor symptoms is crippling societys workforce. "
If fewer people went to work when they had a cold we would have more people in the daily workforce, not less.
If there’s one simple thing you’d hope would have penetrated people’s brains out of this whole thing, it’s don’t go to work with a cold if you can avoid it. |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
all around |
"I think the most vulnerable to this virus should have every medicine made available to them should they catch it, and the rest of us carry on as normal. We all go to work with a cold and the majority of us now only react to covid with cold symptoms, and by making us all stay off work with such minor symptoms is crippling societys workforce. "
The majority who react to Covid with cold symptoms are vaccinated, data for unvaccinated proves different. |
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The unpredictability of mutation, as explained above, is the reason I get nervous when journalists and politicians default to the obvious hospitalisations and deaths statistics to determine the right course of action.
It is entirely feasible, as already mentioned, for a new mutation to be both more transmissible and more deadly. Every time a single person is infected, they are providing perfect lab conditions to the virus for it to mutate. So taking the view that "the symptoms in most people are mild, so why not just get back to normal", is inviting a situation some months down the line where we have many new mutations, some of which may well be far more deadly than existing ones. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"The unpredictability of mutation, as explained above, is the reason I get nervous when journalists and politicians default to the obvious hospitalisations and deaths statistics to determine the right course of action.
It is entirely feasible, as already mentioned, for a new mutation to be both more transmissible and more deadly. Every time a single person is infected, they are providing perfect lab conditions to the virus for it to mutate. So taking the view that "the symptoms in most people are mild, so why not just get back to normal", is inviting a situation some months down the line where we have many new mutations, some of which may well be far more deadly than existing ones."
But what is the solution then? How can ongoing restrictions be sustainable long term both economically and in terms of society? I have no idea myself! |
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"The unpredictability of mutation, as explained above, is the reason I get nervous when journalists and politicians default to the obvious hospitalisations and deaths statistics to determine the right course of action.
It is entirely feasible, as already mentioned, for a new mutation to be both more transmissible and more deadly. Every time a single person is infected, they are providing perfect lab conditions to the virus for it to mutate. So taking the view that "the symptoms in most people are mild, so why not just get back to normal", is inviting a situation some months down the line where we have many new mutations, some of which may well be far more deadly than existing ones.
But what is the solution then? How can ongoing restrictions be sustainable long term both economically and in terms of society? I have no idea myself!"
There are many courses of action open to us and we perhaps make the mistake of assuming that we only pursue 1 simultaneously. There are some simple measures that we can use, that have incremental benefits. These include good ventilation, testing programmes, appropriate payments to people who stay away from work, masks, safer gatherings protocols and others. Reducing infection levels isn't something that doesn't help us in the longer term. And the results from suppression during winter, help us to better manage during spring and summer. We've not pursued a zero Covid approach and can continue with a suppression strategy, many elements of which have very low costs, both of effort and economically. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"The unpredictability of mutation, as explained above, is the reason I get nervous when journalists and politicians default to the obvious hospitalisations and deaths statistics to determine the right course of action.
It is entirely feasible, as already mentioned, for a new mutation to be both more transmissible and more deadly. Every time a single person is infected, they are providing perfect lab conditions to the virus for it to mutate. So taking the view that "the symptoms in most people are mild, so why not just get back to normal", is inviting a situation some months down the line where we have many new mutations, some of which may well be far more deadly than existing ones.
But what is the solution then? How can ongoing restrictions be sustainable long term both economically and in terms of society? I have no idea myself!
There are many courses of action open to us and we perhaps make the mistake of assuming that we only pursue 1 simultaneously. There are some simple measures that we can use, that have incremental benefits. These include good ventilation, testing programmes, appropriate payments to people who stay away from work, masks, safer gatherings protocols and others. Reducing infection levels isn't something that doesn't help us in the longer term. And the results from suppression during winter, help us to better manage during spring and summer. We've not pursued a zero Covid approach and can continue with a suppression strategy, many elements of which have very low costs, both of effort and economically. "
Agreed although it appears our Govt are almost exclusively focused on vaccines. You say...
“...good ventilation, testing programmes, appropriate payments to people who stay away from work, masks, safer gatherings protocols...”
Many of those things require Govt investment but Sunak is saying the purse is empty (a whole other discussion). |
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"That is how it normally goes and feels what is happening, usually the 1st variant is the strongest one and when you listen to drs like campbell, angelique and even who reports that too, it feels like this year the variants are running out its course, which is good "
Explain why kent version was more of a concern than the original and then the delta was even more of a concern if the first is the "strongest one".
Also, Ebola and West Nile virus (WNV). Both evolved into a more serious variants.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The biggest risk to people is continuing with restrictions. Economically it isn't viable and the majority of the nhs is suffering not because of the amount of people in hospital but the amount of staff isolating. An innumerable amount of people have had the birus recently they has been a reduction in deaths. Open the world up and deliver proper care to people who need it to reduce waiting lists, keep people oit of hospital uneccesarily and put money into good social care so there isn't a load of people in hospital that could be looked after elsewhere! Not rocket science. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think the most vulnerable to this virus should have every medicine made available to them should they catch it, and the rest of us carry on as normal. We all go to work with a cold and the majority of us now only react to covid with cold symptoms, and by making us all stay off work with such minor symptoms is crippling societys workforce.
The majority who react to Covid with cold symptoms are vaccinated, data for unvaccinated proves different."
Can you share your source for the data? |
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"Didnt think I'd be spending my evening on a swinging website reading peoples opinion of virus variants. What a wonderfully weird world we have "
Was just thinking the same thing. Come on here for a break from hearing or reading the words covid, virus and jabs lol but its everywhere x |
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"Didnt think I'd be spending my evening on a swinging website reading peoples opinion of virus variants. What a wonderfully weird world we have
Was just thinking the same thing. Come on here for a break from hearing or reading the words covid, virus and jabs lol but its everywhere x"
Its quite easy to avoid it.
unless you clicked by mistake on the virus section of the forum!!
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"Mutations occur at random. Which new variants become dominant has a lot to do with how transmissible the virus is and much less to do with how badly it affects the host. The 2 are linked though, when a host is badly affected they tend not to be mixing with others, this puts a selection pressure towards strains the cause milder illness. However as I said mutations are random, a strain that causes mild symptoms for a long period before becoming more serious could yet arise. I know people who had very mild symptoms for over a week before going on to developing some really unpleasant few days of illness.
Interesting. This is why we have to hope something like Ebola never mutates to having a longer “gestation” period that allows it to transmit and be carried around the world before the serious symptoms kick in. "
So long as Ebola virus continues to circulate in primates and humans continue to eat them, nothing much will stop Ebola virus. Massive animal reservoirs and we humans keep shoving our beaks in. |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
all around |
"I think the most vulnerable to this virus should have every medicine made available to them should they catch it, and the rest of us carry on as normal. We all go to work with a cold and the majority of us now only react to covid with cold symptoms, and by making us all stay off work with such minor symptoms is crippling societys workforce.
The majority who react to Covid with cold symptoms are vaccinated, data for unvaccinated proves different.
Can you share your source for the data?"
Absolutely, but the green arrow says you're not interested. |
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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago
Peterborough |
"No. The different variants will always have little pools of infection across the world. Same as influenza.
This is the reason why the flu jab is made up of 4 different flu strains, 2020/21 was recommended to be made from strains in
Hawaii
Hong Kong
Washington
Phuket
In order to give us the best protection.
now it's mutated into Omicron I expect to see other strains with the same mutations appear over the world
We just need to sort the self isolating period out now
The symptoms are getting milder though."
Milder is better and it's coming up to the two year period, so I'm hoping this plague will die out, or at least be reduced to a minor illness. |
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"I think the most vulnerable to this virus should have every medicine made available to them should they catch it, and the rest of us carry on as normal. We all go to work with a cold and the majority of us now only react to covid with cold symptoms, and by making us all stay off work with such minor symptoms is crippling societys workforce.
The majority who react to Covid with cold symptoms are vaccinated, data for unvaccinated proves different.
Can you share your source for the data?"
I actually don't doubt this entirely but would also like to see the source.
I expect that the majority who are vaccinated who react with cold symtoms are above 50. Without the vaccine, they'd have been hospitalised or dead. Another perfect example of how the vaccine help reduce symptoms of covid... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think the most vulnerable to this virus should have every medicine made available to them should they catch it, and the rest of us carry on as normal. We all go to work with a cold and the majority of us now only react to covid with cold symptoms, and by making us all stay off work with such minor symptoms is crippling societys workforce.
The majority who react to Covid with cold symptoms are vaccinated, data for unvaccinated proves different."
Can you show this data as claimed above please ? |
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"That is how it normally goes and feels what is happening, usually the 1st variant is the strongest one and when you listen to drs like campbell, angelique and even who reports that too, it feels like this year the variants are running out its course, which is good "
Unfortunately, the way that viruses replicate is prone to error (mutations). These errors can be anywhere within the the genetic code, and have as much potential to mutate into a much worse version than a less bad one.
Cal |
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"That is how it normally goes and feels what is happening, usually the 1st variant is the strongest one and when you listen to drs like campbell, angelique and even who reports that too, it feels like this year the variants are running out its course, which is good
Unfortunately, the way that viruses replicate is prone to error (mutations). These errors can be anywhere within the the genetic code, and have as much potential to mutate into a much worse version than a less bad one.
Cal"
A mutation that was extremely fatal wouldn't last as long as one that's milder though surely? If the host dies quick, the virus isn't passed on. |
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"That is how it normally goes and feels what is happening, usually the 1st variant is the strongest one and when you listen to drs like campbell, angelique and even who reports that too, it feels like this year the variants are running out its course, which is good
Unfortunately, the way that viruses replicate is prone to error (mutations). These errors can be anywhere within the the genetic code, and have as much potential to mutate into a much worse version than a less bad one.
CalA mutation that was extremely fatal wouldn't last as long as one that's milder though surely? If the host dies quick, the virus isn't passed on."
As long as the r0 is above 1 it will spread and possibly kill more people that a milder variant.
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"That is how it normally goes and feels what is happening, usually the 1st variant is the strongest one and when you listen to drs like campbell, angelique and even who reports that too, it feels like this year the variants are running out its course, which is good
Unfortunately, the way that viruses replicate is prone to error (mutations). These errors can be anywhere within the the genetic code, and have as much potential to mutate into a much worse version than a less bad one.
CalA mutation that was extremely fatal wouldn't last as long as one that's milder though surely? If the host dies quick, the virus isn't passed on."
Higher fatality rates do not necessary come with faster fatality. |
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"That is how it normally goes and feels what is happening, usually the 1st variant is the strongest one and when you listen to drs like campbell, angelique and even who reports that too, it feels like this year the variants are running out its course, which is good
Unfortunately, the way that viruses replicate is prone to error (mutations). These errors can be anywhere within the the genetic code, and have as much potential to mutate into a much worse version than a less bad one.
CalA mutation that was extremely fatal wouldn't last as long as one that's milder though surely? If the host dies quick, the virus isn't passed on.
Higher fatality rates do not necessary come with faster fatality."
Thats true. |
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"No. The different variants will always have little pools of infection across the world. Same as influenza.
This is the reason why the flu jab is made up of 4 different flu strains, 2020/21 was recommended to be made from strains in
Hawaii
Hong Kong
Washington
Phuket
In order to give us the best protection.
now it's mutated into Omicron I expect to see other strains with the same mutations appear over the world
We just need to sort the self isolating period out now
The symptoms are getting milder though."
you have to remember though that a lot of science is also saying this is due to many people getting covid for 2nd or even 3rd time around as they have previously had it and not known. |
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"Mutations occur at random. Which new variants become dominant has a lot to do with how transmissible the virus is and much less to do with how badly it affects the host. The 2 are linked though, when a host is badly affected they tend not to be mixing with others, this puts a selection pressure towards strains the cause milder illness. However as I said mutations are random, a strain that causes mild symptoms for a long period before becoming more serious could yet arise. I know people who had very mild symptoms for over a week before going on to developing some really unpleasant few days of illness."
mutations also occure due to the virus needing a host so isolating and vaccines actually speed up the rate at which we see a virus mutate due to its fight for survival. It’s actually a fascinating read if you wish to research it.
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"I think the most vulnerable to this virus should have every medicine made available to them should they catch it, and the rest of us carry on as normal. We all go to work with a cold and the majority of us now only react to covid with cold symptoms, and by making us all stay off work with such minor symptoms is crippling societys workforce.
The majority who react to Covid with cold symptoms are vaccinated, data for unvaccinated proves different."
when you take out the figures for those that can’t be vaccinated it’s a really low figure and not worth even using. I always live it when they throw in the number of unvaccinated in hospital but forget to mention the number of them that caught covid while in hospital and can’t have a vaccination for many reasons. Last data suggested 60% of those in hospital where unvaccinated so not a massive number and statistics it self would tell you that at least 40% of those unvaccinated would have ended up in hospital still even if vaccinated. |
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"Mutations occur at random. Which new variants become dominant has a lot to do with how transmissible the virus is and much less to do with how badly it affects the host. The 2 are linked though, when a host is badly affected they tend not to be mixing with others, this puts a selection pressure towards strains the cause milder illness. However as I said mutations are random, a strain that causes mild symptoms for a long period before becoming more serious could yet arise. I know people who had very mild symptoms for over a week before going on to developing some really unpleasant few days of illness. mutations also occure due to the virus needing a host so isolating and vaccines actually speed up the rate at which we see a virus mutate due to its fight for survival. It’s actually a fascinating read if you wish to research it. "
This isn't true. |
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"mutations also occure due to the virus needing a host so isolating and vaccines actually speed up the rate at which we see a virus mutate due to its fight for survival. It’s actually a fascinating read if you wish to research it. "
Not even close. Mutations happen when the virus replicates, at random, they are mistakes in the replication of the virus' proteins. This can only happen in a live host, viruses don't replicate in the air, only in an active host. |
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Darwinism in practice.
Survival of the fittest (for purpose)
Viruses tend towards having milder/no effects in hosts so that they can transmit more easily in more hosts....killing more hosts means can't transmit easily so that strain tends to die out.
Refusing vaccines means the average IQ of the surviving population increases. |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
all around |
"I think the most vulnerable to this virus should have every medicine made available to them should they catch it, and the rest of us carry on as normal. We all go to work with a cold and the majority of us now only react to covid with cold symptoms, and by making us all stay off work with such minor symptoms is crippling societys workforce.
The majority who react to Covid with cold symptoms are vaccinated, data for unvaccinated proves different. when you take out the figures for those that can’t be vaccinated it’s a really low figure and not worth even using. I always live it when they throw in the number of unvaccinated in hospital but forget to mention the number of them that caught covid while in hospital and can’t have a vaccination for many reasons. Last data suggested 60% of those in hospital where unvaccinated so not a massive number and statistics it self would tell you that at least 40% of those unvaccinated would have ended up in hospital still even if vaccinated. "
Interested, who did the 40% evaluation ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would say there is a bad variant lurking somewhere out there waiting to be found, as I am sure we haven't seen all of them yet."
. Yes indeed. Hide, hide. Don’t come out from behind that sofa, something terrible MIGHT happen. Yuk, i’ve wet myself !!!!!!
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"I would say there is a bad variant lurking somewhere out there waiting to be found, as I am sure we haven't seen all of them yet.. Yes indeed. Hide, hide. Don’t come out from behind that sofa, something terrible MIGHT happen. Yuk, i’ve wet myself !!!!!!"
*Passes a tissue to wipe up the pee* |
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"Mutations occur at random. Which new variants become dominant has a lot to do with how transmissible the virus is and much less to do with how badly it affects the host. The 2 are linked though, when a host is badly affected they tend not to be mixing with others, this puts a selection pressure towards strains the cause milder illness. However as I said mutations are random, a strain that causes mild symptoms for a long period before becoming more serious could yet arise. I know people who had very mild symptoms for over a week before going on to developing some really unpleasant few days of illness. mutations also occure due to the virus needing a host so isolating and vaccines actually speed up the rate at which we see a virus mutate due to its fight for survival. It’s actually a fascinating read if you wish to research it. "
Not quite, the underlying rate of mutations doesn't change as it's determined by the average error rate in transcription of the viral RNA in cells, what vaccines can do though is exert selection pressure for a mutation which can evade the vaccine generated immune response to emerge. Remember the virus is not doing anything consciously, or reacting to the vaccine in an active manner, it's all about how natural selection operates, but as you say it's a fascinating subject. |
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"I think the most vulnerable to this virus should have every medicine made available to them should they catch it, and the rest of us carry on as normal. We all go to work with a cold and the majority of us now only react to covid with cold symptoms, and by making us all stay off work with such minor symptoms is crippling societys workforce.
If fewer people went to work when they had a cold we would have more people in the daily workforce, not less.
If there’s one simple thing you’d hope would have penetrated people’s brains out of this whole thing, it’s don’t go to work with a cold if you can avoid it."
I completely agree. Can no longer be socially acceptable to go into an office space barking tour head off coughing and sneezing.
I made the same point repeatedly last week, and several posters kept having a dig, saying I was “afraid” of getting a cold. There’s more to it than that ... it’s not just the occasional sniffle that people pick up when colleagues go to work sick.
If people are sick but ok to work, work from home. Don’t infect colleagues |
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"I would say there is a bad variant lurking somewhere out there waiting to be found, as I am sure we haven't seen all of them yet.
I hope you get proved wrong, for all of our sakes."
So do I. But if you think that there could be a different strain for each country, I don't think we have come into contact with them all. |
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