FabSwingers.com > Forums > Virus > Mandatory vaccine u turn

Mandatory vaccine u turn

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By *iss Sin OP Woman over a year ago

portchester

NHS requirement for mandatory vaccines are to be removed. Is it a surprising u turn?

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By *ylonSlutTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

"NHS requirement for mandatory vaccines are to be removed. Is it a surprising u turn?"

Any source for this? This government u turned on pretty much everything so wouldn't be a massive surprise to me.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I wouldnt think so. A already understaffed service struggling to recruit to remove 10% if its staff due to a vaccine would be nonsense

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By *ylonSlutTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

"I wouldnt think so. A already understaffed service struggling to recruit to remove 10% if its staff due to a vaccine would be nonsense"

But the government went ahead with brexit and removed nursing bursaries which had a far bigger effect on staff numbers than this mandate will.

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By *iss Sin OP Woman over a year ago

portchester

It’s in the telegraph. I think it’s for social care too

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By *otswoldguy911Man over a year ago

gloucestershire

The fact they had to threaten thousands of NHS staff with losing their job to take the vaccine in the first place speaks volumes.

These are the real hero’s of our country and as usual get treated appallingly with threats and crap pay rises.

Every single political party is rotten to its core.

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By *izzy.miss.lizzyCouple over a year ago

Pembrokeshire

heard on the radio recently that welsh health authorities are offering jobs to those who get sacked for no jabs in england.

The rules are getting more and more confusing.

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By *ecretlivesCouple over a year ago

FABWatch HQ

Flip flop is less surprising than the number refusing to get the jab. The other 90% of staff are going wtf. Its OK for care homes but not NHS.

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By *alcon43Woman over a year ago

Paisley

Is this U-turn allowed in the Highway Code

It was a ridiculous decision in the first place.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS over a year ago

Central

Sue Gray uturn

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By *armandwet50Couple over a year ago

Manchester

"I wouldnt think so. A already understaffed service struggling to recruit to remove 10% if its staff due to a vaccine would be nonsense"

I thought the figure was approx 70,000?

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By *elshsunsWoman over a year ago

Flintshire

Best decision ever ….. Well done everyone who stood up to the bullying and harassment …

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By *ovebjsMan over a year ago

Bristol

That’s ok why not remake the hep A/B and the rat so that they are at risk from those too

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By *irldnCouple over a year ago

Brighton

So assuming they don’t go ahead with mandatory covid vaccination for NHS, it raises a question for all those on these forums who were saying they would not be treated in hospital/healthcare environment by someone who was unvaccinated...

What you going to do now?

Also read that it creates an issue for Care Homes who were forced to sack unvaccinated care workers.

Also read that the NHS in Wales (where there were no plans to make mandatory) were offering displaced unvaccinated NHS England workers jobs (so I guess they were following different science?)

Of course there may be those saying political expediency tops science (but clearly that is only the case when they are not aligned - although oddly England wasn’t aligned with Wales or Scotland so...?)

Dept Health are saying the science (and justification) have changed with Omicron. So does that mean the Consultant Anaesthetist who confronted Sajid Javid was correct? I recall him getting slated on these forums!

Also worth noting that the approx 77,000 staff (c.5%) are those with no jabs at all but there are also those with only a single jab beyond that number.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

no people power have won we are just about a democracy but only just unlike other countries esp Australia

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By *9unitedMan over a year ago

skipton

"Best decision ever ….. Well done everyone who stood up to the bullying and harassment …

Well said

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

on contary all those take part in a trail who had vaccine are part of the Private pharmaceutical companies & should not be treated by public tax payers NHS service

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By *ylonSlutTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

"So assuming they don’t go ahead with mandatory covid vaccination for NHS, it raises a question for all those on these forums who were saying they would not be treated in hospital/healthcare environment by someone who was unvaccinated...

What you going to do now?

Also read that it creates an issue for Care Homes who were forced to sack unvaccinated care workers.

Also read that the NHS in Wales (where there were no plans to make mandatory) were offering displaced unvaccinated NHS England workers jobs (so I guess they were following different science?)

Also worth noting that the approx 77,000 staff (c.5%) are those with no jabs at all but there are also those with only a single jab beyond that number."

The deadline is approaching for someone to get their first jab in time to have the 2nd before the deadline. Note only customer facing staff have to have the jabs and the % of vaccine refuseniks are a lot smaller than NHS staff in general. Figures i saw was less than 1% doctors and 2 to 3% nurses. Care workers were higher nearer to general population.

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By *estivalMan over a year ago

borehamwood

Gona be a vocal minority on these forums who aint gona be happy,all those who wouldnt be treated by the unvaxed is that still your stance?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Gona be a vocal minority on these forums who aint gona be happy,all those who wouldnt be treated by the unvaxed is that still your stance?"

sick to death of the pandemic think Fab should be a Covid free zone

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By *s.KerryTV/TS over a year ago

Blackpool

"NHS requirement for mandatory vaccines are to be removed. Is it a surprising u turn?"

According to the news its still under discussion isn't it?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Gona be a vocal minority on these forums who aint gona be happy,all those who wouldnt be treated by the unvaxed is that still your stance?

sick to death of the pandemic think Fab should be a Covid free zone"

Agreed! It's about time this Virus Forum came down.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

It's not a surprise at all, couple of us on here said weeks ago it was a likely outcome given Boris is in the crap, cost of living increases on the way etc..

Omicron has given them a political out on this ..

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"on contary all those take part in a trail who had vaccine are part of the Private pharmaceutical companies & should not be treated by public tax payers NHS service "

Not thought that through at all have you?

Everything the NHS treats us with from arse cream to plasters is made by the private sector..

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By *ob198XaMan over a year ago

teleford

"Gona be a vocal minority on these forums who aint gona be happy,all those who wouldnt be treated by the unvaxed is that still your stance?

sick to death of the pandemic think Fab should be a Covid free zone

Agreed! It's about time this Virus Forum came down. "

No. You don’t have to come to the virus threads but if they don’t have a dedicated home they will simply dominate throughout the rest of the forum

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"That’s ok why not remake the hep A/B and the rat so that they are at risk from those too

Just put this through Google Translate. Result back was:

"Talking bollocks as usual."

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By *erlins5Man over a year ago

South Fife

"NHS requirement for mandatory vaccines are to be removed. Is it a surprising u turn?

Any source for this? This government u turned on pretty much everything so wouldn't be a massive surprise to me."

BBC

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By *rFunBoyMan over a year ago

Longridge

The threat may have got the numbers up. Who said they'd carried it through anyway.

As said earlier, Omicron done a lot of favours but still at a price.

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By *irldnCouple over a year ago

Brighton

"on contary all those take part in a trail who had vaccine are part of the Private pharmaceutical companies & should not be treated by public tax payers NHS service

Not thought that through at all have you?

Everything the NHS treats us with from arse cream to plasters is made by the private sector..

“Arse cream”

was eating my toast!

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"on contary all those take part in a trail who had vaccine are part of the Private pharmaceutical companies & should not be treated by public tax payers NHS service

Not thought that through at all have you?

Everything the NHS treats us with from arse cream to plasters is made by the private sector..

“Arse cream”

was eating my toast!"

My apologies lol, honey?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

What you going to do now?

Also read that it creates an issue for Care Homes who were forced to sack unvaccinated care workers.

Also read that the NHS in Wales (where there were no plans to make mandatory) were offering displaced unvaccinated NHS England workers jobs (so I guess they were following different science?)

Also worth noting that the approx 77,000 staff (c.5%) are those with no jabs at all but there are also those with only a single jab beyond that number.

Just for your info, the term refusenik was given to the Russian Jews who were stopped from fleeing to Israel or elsewhere. Original term meant “those who are refused” but as can be seen a lot today shit gets twisted to mean the opposite of the truth it derived from.

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By *hagTonightMan over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

[Removed by poster at 31/01/22 09:16:19]

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By *hagTonightMan over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

That is good and I think that they finally saw sense after the protests and also that about 70000 could lose their jobs which would stretch the nhs even more than it is, we will see what will happen.

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan over a year ago

Hastings

"Gona be a vocal minority on these forums who aint gona be happy,all those who wouldnt be treated by the unvaxed is that still your stance?"

So would you sit in a watting room with someone unveaxed or even stay on a ward??

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By *irldnCouple over a year ago

Brighton

"on contary all those take part in a trail who had vaccine are part of the Private pharmaceutical companies & should not be treated by public tax payers NHS service

Not thought that through at all have you?

Everything the NHS treats us with from arse cream to plasters is made by the private sector..

“Arse cream”

was eating my toast!

My apologies lol, honey?"

You can call me honey if you like but my toast was just butter

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"on contary all those take part in a trail who had vaccine are part of the Private pharmaceutical companies & should not be treated by public tax payers NHS service

Not thought that through at all have you?

Everything the NHS treats us with from arse cream to plasters is made by the private sector..

“Arse cream”

was eating my toast!

My apologies lol, honey?

You can call me honey if you like but my toast was just butter

Good call..

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By *alandNitaCouple over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"I wouldnt think so. A already understaffed service struggling to recruit to remove 10% if its staff due to a vaccine would be nonsense

I thought the figure was approx 70,000?"

The latest guess of how many unvaccinated staff there are, is approximately 73'000. The NHS employs about 1.5 million, so there are roughly 5% unvaccinated.

Cal

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Gona be a vocal minority on these forums who aint gona be happy,all those who wouldnt be treated by the unvaxed is that still your stance?

sick to death of the pandemic think Fab should be a Covid free zone

Agreed! It's about time this Virus Forum came down.

No. You don’t have to come to the virus threads but if they don’t have a dedicated home they will simply dominate throughout the rest of the forum"

Correct we don't have to come here! But let's just imagine for one minute you want to get away from the whole thing, so you decide to pop on to your favourite swinging site to peruse the forums and low and behold there is the word Virus!! It's been done to death by the same faces with the same long ass essays and quotes!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Shame they couldn't do the U turn last October for the healthcare assistants who did not wish to be jabbed and lost their jobs

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By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Gona be a vocal minority on these forums who aint gona be happy,all those who wouldnt be treated by the unvaxed is that still your stance?

sick to death of the pandemic think Fab should be a Covid free zone

Agreed! It's about time this Virus Forum came down.

No. You don’t have to come to the virus threads but if they don’t have a dedicated home they will simply dominate throughout the rest of the forum

You have the power to not enter but yet you do

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Gona be a vocal minority on these forums who aint gona be happy,all those who wouldnt be treated by the unvaxed is that still your stance?

sick to death of the pandemic think Fab should be a Covid free zone

Agreed! It's about time this Virus Forum came down.

No. You don’t have to come to the virus threads but if they don’t have a dedicated home they will simply dominate throughout the rest of the forum

You have the power to not enter but yet you do

"
it's not the entering its just seeing the word virus.. and after loosing two grand parents to it I kinda wanna not be reminded. I do understand some want to argue about it but I feel the topic should just not be on a swinging site. Just a personal opinion no harm ment. Peace, love and flowers

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By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Gona be a vocal minority on these forums who aint gona be happy,all those who wouldnt be treated by the unvaxed is that still your stance?

sick to death of the pandemic think Fab should be a Covid free zone

Agreed! It's about time this Virus Forum came down.

No. You don’t have to come to the virus threads but if they don’t have a dedicated home they will simply dominate throughout the rest of the forum

You have the power to not enter but yet you do

it's not the entering its just seeing the word virus.. and after loosing two grand parents to it I kinda wanna not be reminded. I do understand some want to argue about it but I feel the topic should just not be on a swinging site. Just a personal opinion no harm ment. Peace, love and flowers "

I have often thought it would be nice to have "hide" feature on here, that would solve the problem and be more of a personalised experience

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By *armandwet50Couple over a year ago

Manchester

"That is good and I think that they finally saw sense after the protests and also that about 70000 could lose their jobs which would stretch the nhs even more than it is, we will see what will happen."

Only the customer facing staff need to be vaccinated, the 70k figure is all non vaccinated staff so not all 70k need to be vaccinated

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By *hoirCouple over a year ago

Bury St Edmunds/Clacton

"on contary all those take part in a trail who had vaccine are part of the Private pharmaceutical companies & should not be treated by public tax payers NHS service

Not thought that through at all have you?

Everything the NHS treats us with from arse cream to plasters is made by the private sector..

“Arse cream”

was eating my toast!"

Luckily it wasn't an eclair

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By *armandwet50Couple over a year ago

Manchester

"I wouldnt think so. A already understaffed service struggling to recruit to remove 10% if its staff due to a vaccine would be nonsense

I thought the figure was approx 70,000?

The latest guess of how many unvaccinated staff there are, is approximately 73'000. The NHS employs about 1.5 million, so there are roughly 5% unvaccinated.

Cal"

But only customer facing staff need to be vaccinated some of the 73k do not need to be vaccinated

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By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"NHS requirement for mandatory vaccines are to be removed. Is it a surprising u turn?"

It's not surprising and it's a good thing for now, for the current set of variants.

Although it's not as huge a deal as is being made out, saying the word NHS is like watching flies around sh1t, with every decision weighted down by 70 years of using it as a political Crow bar.

There will be those who moan at a change in policy... And if they didn't change they'd moan, and if they do change they moan.

As long as those treating patients are tested and negative and stay at home if they are ill, their vaccine status is not important. Their infection status is very important.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Gona be a vocal minority on these forums who aint gona be happy,all those who wouldnt be treated by the unvaxed is that still your stance?

sick to death of the pandemic think Fab should be a Covid free zone

Agreed! It's about time this Virus Forum came down.

No. You don’t have to come to the virus threads but if they don’t have a dedicated home they will simply dominate throughout the rest of the forum

You have the power to not enter but yet you do

I have often thought it would be nice to have "hide" feature on here, that would solve the problem and be more of a personalised experience

Brilliant idea sir

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By *irldnCouple over a year ago

Brighton

"on contary all those take part in a trail who had vaccine are part of the Private pharmaceutical companies & should not be treated by public tax payers NHS service

Not thought that through at all have you?

Everything the NHS treats us with from arse cream to plasters is made by the private sector..

“Arse cream”

was eating my toast!

Luckily it wasn't an eclair"

For breakfast!!!!!! That’s just wrong!

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By *irldnCouple over a year ago

Brighton

"NHS requirement for mandatory vaccines are to be removed. Is it a surprising u turn?

It's not surprising and it's a good thing for now, for the current set of variants.

Although it's not as huge a deal as is being made out, saying the word NHS is like watching flies around sh1t, with every decision weighted down by 70 years of using it as a political Crow bar.

There will be those who moan at a change in policy... And if they didn't change they'd moan, and if they do change they moan.

As long as those treating patients are tested and negative and stay at home if they are ill, their vaccine status is not important. Their infection status is very important. "

Last para

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By *imes_berksMan over a year ago

Bracknell

"Shame they couldn't do the U turn last October for the healthcare assistants who did not wish to be jabbed and lost their jobs

Unfortunately the delta variant was the major variant last Oct and the Uturn is based on the omicron variant

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Such a shame for all of the healthcare workers who lost their jobs last year.

Also sad for those who did not want the vaccine but felt that they had no choice through threat of losing their livelihood.

Great news on the whole though

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Shame they couldn't do the U turn last October for the healthcare assistants who did not wish to be jabbed and lost their jobs

Unfortunately the delta variant was the major variant last Oct and the Uturn is based on the omicron variant "

Yeah, I understand that. Don't think the care staff that lost their jobs would agree though. And I don't think the U turn is based solely on omicron variant. There might be more harmful variants in the future, so would they implement another mandate then?

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By *hagTonightMan over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

[Removed by poster at 31/01/22 15:14:40]

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By *hagTonightMan over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

What you going to do now?

Also read that it creates an issue for Care Homes who were forced to sack unvaccinated care workers.

Also read that the NHS in Wales (where there were no plans to make mandatory) were offering displaced unvaccinated NHS England workers jobs (so I guess they were following different science?)

Also worth noting that the approx 77,000 staff (c.5%) are those with no jabs at all but there are also those with only a single jab beyond that number."
Yes and I also agree with that doctor too, that the science isnt strong enough to support the vaccine mandates.

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By *I TwoCouple over a year ago

all around

"NHS requirement for mandatory vaccines are to be removed. Is it a surprising u turn?"

Given the change in the severity of the virus that noone could have predicated it's understandable everything is under review, no big story really ...

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By *ungry CatCouple over a year ago

Belfast

Bottom line is:

Is no staff better than unvaccinated staff who get regularly tested?

Anyone who is too prudish to receive a treatment from someone healthy and perfectly fine, only not vaccinated from a disease that they will likely catch even post vaccine anyway would end up essentially depriving others from getting medical treatments due to staff shortages and if this is not selfish I don't know what is!

Medical staff should have a right to body autonomy too. They're not disposable cattle.

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

Surely offering them the vaccine shows they are not ‘disposable cattle’ - the vaccine increases their chance of surviving this pandemic, after all.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Gona be a vocal minority on these forums who aint gona be happy,all those who wouldnt be treated by the unvaxed is that still your stance?

sick to death of the pandemic think Fab should be a Covid free zone

Agreed! It's about time this Virus Forum came down. "

Absolutely agree with you guys.

Time to remove this from the forums.

Don't know how the virus section ever landed here anyway.

This is a swingers site ffs

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"Such a shame for all of the healthcare workers who lost their jobs last year.

Also sad for those who did not want the vaccine but felt that they had no choice through threat of losing their livelihood.

Great news on the whole though

Why is it a shame for the ones who felt they had no choice? They’ve kept their jobs and received the vaccine - both are positive results for them personally.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Gona be a vocal minority on these forums who aint gona be happy,all those who wouldnt be treated by the unvaxed is that still your stance?

sick to death of the pandemic think Fab should be a Covid free zone

Agreed! It's about time this Virus Forum came down.

No. You don’t have to come to the virus threads but if they don’t have a dedicated home they will simply dominate throughout the rest of the forum"

Not if everyone used the swinging website for what it is intended for which is actually talking about swinging.

If people want to argue with strangers about politics and viruses then hop off to facebook or decide to get a life instead

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"Gona be a vocal minority on these forums who aint gona be happy,all those who wouldnt be treated by the unvaxed is that still your stance?

sick to death of the pandemic think Fab should be a Covid free zone

Agreed! It's about time this Virus Forum came down.

Absolutely agree with you guys.

Time to remove this from the forums.

Don't know how the virus section ever landed here anyway.

This is a swingers site ffs

The section exists because people want to post in it - just like you wanted to.

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By *irldnCouple over a year ago

Brighton

"NHS requirement for mandatory vaccines are to be removed. Is it a surprising u turn?

Given the change in the severity of the virus that noone could have predicated it's understandable everything is under review, no big story really ..."

That’s an interesting bit of spin. You only have to go back a few weeks to the Consultant Anaesthetist confronting Sajid Javid by saying precisely that (Omicron not severe enough to warrant mandatory vaccine, the science/data is changing) and some people on here were vilifying him. And yet here we are! Funny old world!

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By *ungry CatCouple over a year ago

Belfast

"Surely offering them the vaccine shows they are not ‘disposable cattle’ - the vaccine increases their chance of surviving this pandemic, after all."

Body. Autonomy.

By saying what you just said you just implied that you have a right to dictate what nhs staff can and can't do with their bodies.

There was no mass deaths among nhs staff before the vaccine was created. They were good enough then.

What changed?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Gona be a vocal minority on these forums who aint gona be happy,all those who wouldnt be treated by the unvaxed is that still your stance?

sick to death of the pandemic think Fab should be a Covid free zone

Agreed! It's about time this Virus Forum came down.

Absolutely agree with you guys.

Time to remove this from the forums.

Don't know how the virus section ever landed here anyway.

This is a swingers site ffs

The section exists because people want to post in it - just like you wanted to.

Boom you got me melon farmer

I will return on another day to let everyone still arguing with strangers know that there is a life out there where people touch other people and play nicely etc. It's great.

Not because I want to but because it is my duty to point you misguided souls in the right direction

Go to a club... touch a stranger

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"Surely offering them the vaccine shows they are not ‘disposable cattle’ - the vaccine increases their chance of surviving this pandemic, after all.

Body. Autonomy.

By saying what you just said you just implied that you have a right to dictate what nhs staff can and can't do with their bodies.

There was no mass deaths among nhs staff before the vaccine was created. They were good enough then.

What changed?

You’re not really sense there, but you’ve mistaken the implication. And nothing changed. The vaccine improved their chances of surviving the pandemic, so ‘encouraging’ them to have it was a benefit to them, regardless of whether they wanted it or not, or whether it was ethical or not (which would be a separate debate).

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By *ungry CatCouple over a year ago

Belfast

"Surely offering them the vaccine shows they are not ‘disposable cattle’ - the vaccine increases their chance of surviving this pandemic, after all.

Body. Autonomy.

By saying what you just said you just implied that you have a right to dictate what nhs staff can and can't do with their bodies.

There was no mass deaths among nhs staff before the vaccine was created. They were good enough then.

What changed?

Sacking someone for not taking it is not "encouragement" it's coercion.

They deserve to have their own body autonomy.

Are you more qualified than them to say what's good for them?

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"Surely offering them the vaccine shows they are not ‘disposable cattle’ - the vaccine increases their chance of surviving this pandemic, after all.

Body. Autonomy.

By saying what you just said you just implied that you have a right to dictate what nhs staff can and can't do with their bodies.

There was no mass deaths among nhs staff before the vaccine was created. They were good enough then.

What changed?

Sacking someone for not taking it is not "encouragement" it's coercion.

They deserve to have their own body autonomy.

Are you more qualified than them to say what's good for them?

No, but the scientists who developed the vaccine are. There is no evidence in existence that says taking the vaccine puts you at more risk of critical illness or death than taking it. ‘Body autonomy’ is neither here nor there on that point.

As for coercion, yes, of course it is - that’s why ‘encouragement’ was in inverted commas.

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By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"Surely offering them the vaccine shows they are not ‘disposable cattle’ - the vaccine increases their chance of surviving this pandemic, after all.

Body. Autonomy.

By saying what you just said you just implied that you have a right to dictate what nhs staff can and can't do with their bodies.

There was no mass deaths among nhs staff before the vaccine was created. They were good enough then.

What changed?

Sacking someone for not taking it is not "encouragement" it's coercion.

They deserve to have their own body autonomy.

Are you more qualified than them to say what's good for them?

As for coercion, yes, of course it is - that’s why ‘encouragement’ was in inverted commas."

This should of course read ‘ There is no evidence in existence that says taking the vaccine puts you at more risk of critical illness or death than not taking it.’

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By *wings_n_RoundaboutsMan over a year ago

The North

"Gona be a vocal minority on these forums who aint gona be happy,all those who wouldnt be treated by the unvaxed is that still your stance?

sick to death of the pandemic think Fab should be a Covid free zone

Agreed! It's about time this Virus Forum came down. "

This.

It's laughable that on a swinging forum that there is a "Virus" forum

only one click above you can have a topic like:

"Would you spunk on my wife's hairy fanny?"

Whereas here it's

"I am worried about the unvaccinated. Please help"

Laughable

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By *all me FlikWoman over a year ago

Galaxy Far Far Away

"Gona be a vocal minority on these forums who aint gona be happy,all those who wouldnt be treated by the unvaxed is that still your stance?

sick to death of the pandemic think Fab should be a Covid free zone

Agreed! It's about time this Virus Forum came down.

This.

It's laughable that on a swinging forum that there is a "Virus" forum

only one click above you can have a topic like:

"Would you spunk on my wife's hairy fanny?"

Whereas here it's

"I am worried about the unvaccinated. Please help"

Laughable "

Remove the virus forum and the threads will move to the Lounge.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Gona be a vocal minority on these forums who aint gona be happy,all those who wouldnt be treated by the unvaxed is that still your stance?

sick to death of the pandemic think Fab should be a Covid free zone

Agreed! It's about time this Virus Forum came down.

Absolutely agree with you guys.

Time to remove this from the forums.

Don't know how the virus section ever landed here anyway.

This is a swingers site ffs

Agreed

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By * pervert in a PeartreeMan over a year ago

city of Lodon

"Surely offering them the vaccine shows they are not ‘disposable cattle’ - the vaccine increases their chance of surviving this pandemic, after all.

Body. Autonomy.

By saying what you just said you just implied that you have a right to dictate what nhs staff can and can't do with their bodies.

There was no mass deaths among nhs staff before the vaccine was created. They were good enough then.

What changed?

Sacking someone for not taking it is not "encouragement" it's coercion.

They deserve to have their own body autonomy.

Are you more qualified than them to say what's good for them?

As for coercion, yes, of course it is - that’s why ‘encouragement’ was in inverted commas.

This should of course read ‘ There is no evidence in existence that says taking the vaccine puts you at more risk of critical illness or death than not taking it.’"

This should of course read 'I haven't looked at the research on the howbadismybatch website.

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By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Surely offering them the vaccine shows they are not ‘disposable cattle’ - the vaccine increases their chance of surviving this pandemic, after all.

Body. Autonomy.

By saying what you just said you just implied that you have a right to dictate what nhs staff can and can't do with their bodies.

There was no mass deaths among nhs staff before the vaccine was created. They were good enough then.

What changed?

Sacking someone for not taking it is not "encouragement" it's coercion.

They deserve to have their own body autonomy.

Are you more qualified than them to say what's good for them?

As for coercion, yes, of course it is - that’s why ‘encouragement’ was in inverted commas."

We are 2 years on from the start of this pandemic and I would suggest those people in the NHS who are not vaccinated have managed themselves and their work up until now rather well. Of course there will be a number of anomalies with such a large workforce but what benefit would be had from insisting they be vaccinated now?

Is it to protect them or is it to protect the public?

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By *eavenscentitCouple over a year ago

barnstaple

"Flip flop is less surprising than the number refusing to get the jab. The other 90% of staff are going wtf. Its OK for care homes but not NHS.

It wasn't OK for care staff, disgusting infact

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By *ungry CatCouple over a year ago

Belfast

"Flip flop is less surprising than the number refusing to get the jab. The other 90% of staff are going wtf. Its OK for care homes but not NHS.

It wasn't OK for care staff, disgusting infact"

I have 18 screenshots of 18 different local care homes looking for staff. Looks like it is "better" to have no staff looking after the elderly than have unvaccinated staff doing their job after all.

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"NHS requirement for mandatory vaccines are to be removed. Is it a surprising u turn?"

The House of Lord's pointed out at the start that the problem was that there was no plan in place to cope with the staff shortages that could arise.

That is why there is a reversal being discussed now.

The medical evidence is that vaccination reduces the chance of being infected and spreading infection. That has never changed.

Every medical association supports vaccination, but preferred persuasion to compulsion.

It is pure luck that Omicron is milder than Delta. It allows a justification independent of the the recommendation for vaccination which remains the same, with good evidence.

However, you then have to ask why other vaccinations are compulsory for certain roles. A question never answered by anyone protesting against Covid vaccination in the NHS.

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By *orny PTMan over a year ago

Peterborough

Fingers crossed, this virus is losing its lethality and will become weaker with each strain, so hopefully by Spring it will fizzle out...

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By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

"NHS requirement for mandatory vaccines are to be removed. Is it a surprising u turn?

The House of Lord's pointed out at the start that the problem was that there was no plan in place to cope with the staff shortages that could arise.

That is why there is a reversal being discussed now.

The medical evidence is that vaccination reduces the chance of being infected and spreading infection. That has never changed.

Every medical association supports vaccination, but preferred persuasion to compulsion.

It is pure luck that Omicron is milder than Delta. It allows a justification independent of the the recommendation for vaccination which remains the same, with good evidence.

However, you then have to ask why other vaccinations are compulsory for certain roles. A question never answered by anyone protesting against Covid vaccination in the NHS."

People who have not had the vaccines yet are highly unlikely to want it now covid is proving less harmful, why would they, what on earth would suddenly change their minds after being unvaccinated through the worst of it.

The covid vaccines main purpose is to lessen the effects of covid which is far from ideal when trying to explain the virtues of being vaccinated to a healthy 30 year old who may have already had covid or has been dealing with the fallout of covid over the last 2 years.

We as a nation need to move on, the covid war footing needs to be tamed to allow people to get on with life and stop creating divide which it has, them versus us. People need too accept some will wear masks, some wont, some will be fully vaccinated others wont be, we should all do whatever makes us feel like we've done the right thing.

The end

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By *ovelybumCouple over a year ago

Tunbridge Wells

"NHS requirement for mandatory vaccines are to be removed. Is it a surprising u turn?

The House of Lord's pointed out at the start that the problem was that there was no plan in place to cope with the staff shortages that could arise.

That is why there is a reversal being discussed now.

The medical evidence is that vaccination reduces the chance of being infected and spreading infection. That has never changed.

Every medical association supports vaccination, but preferred persuasion to compulsion.

It is pure luck that Omicron is milder than Delta. It allows a justification independent of the the recommendation for vaccination which remains the same, with good evidence.

However, you then have to ask why other vaccinations are compulsory for certain roles. A question never answered by anyone protesting against Covid vaccination in the NHS.

The end

Brilliantly put!

To hard to comprehend for many unfortunately.

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By *iss Sin OP Woman over a year ago

portchester

I think it is wonderful. The pressure was too much on people

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The medical evidence is that vaccination reduces the chance of being infected and spreading infection. That has never changed.

However, you then have to ask why other vaccinations are compulsory for certain roles. A question never answered by anyone protesting against Covid vaccination in the NHS."

On the first point: with omicron in particular, there's no evidence that being vaccinated makes you less likely to catch or spread it. All the people I know who've had COVID in the last few months have been fully jabbed. It's also clear that you're more likely to spread it if you actually have symptoms.

On the second point: that's a myth. No vaccine in mandatory by law in the UK. Certain vaccines are recommended for certain roles, for example hepatitis B for those who have direct contact with patients' blood. They should certainly not be required to have an experimental vaccine which does not prevent transmission and for which there is no long-term safety data.

I am glad the government have bottled it over this. There was no scientific or moral justification for it.

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By *eylandlad555Man over a year ago

Leyland

"NHS requirement for mandatory vaccines are to be removed. Is it a surprising u turn?

The House of Lord's pointed out at the start that the problem was that there was no plan in place to cope with the staff shortages that could arise.

That is why there is a reversal being discussed now.

The medical evidence is that vaccination reduces the chance of being infected and spreading infection. That has never changed.

Every medical association supports vaccination, but preferred persuasion to compulsion.

It is pure luck that Omicron is milder than Delta. It allows a justification independent of the the recommendation for vaccination which remains the same, with good evidence.

However, you then have to ask why other vaccinations are compulsory for certain roles. A question never answered by anyone protesting against Covid vaccination in the NHS.

The end

Brilliantly put!

To hard to comprehend for many unfortunately. "

Not the silent majority. Excellent Original Post!

I think we are all generally rational in our balanced and thought out views?

I often read with great disappoint how easily led and FB/Social media centric people have become.

Learn to read, assimilate info, digest said info and know what a trusted source is?

Some people will hate this. The may mention sheep etc. Not too bothered really.

Some may applaud?

Keep safe all xxx

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By *BWarksCouple over a year ago

warwick

"Gona be a vocal minority on these forums who aint gona be happy,all those who wouldnt be treated by the unvaxed is that still your stance?

sick to death of the pandemic think Fab should be a Covid free zone

Agreed! It's about time this Virus Forum came down. "

Definitely agree with this ….. along with the daily numbers on the news too

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By *andK78Couple over a year ago

Newport

"Gona be a vocal minority on these forums who aint gona be happy,all those who wouldnt be treated by the unvaxed is that still your stance?

sick to death of the pandemic think Fab should be a Covid free zone

Agreed! It's about time this Virus Forum came down.

Definitely agree with this ….. along with the daily numbers on the news too "

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"NHS requirement for mandatory vaccines are to be removed. Is it a surprising u turn?

The House of Lord's pointed out at the start that the problem was that there was no plan in place to cope with the staff shortages that could arise.

That is why there is a reversal being discussed now.

The medical evidence is that vaccination reduces the chance of being infected and spreading infection. That has never changed.

Every medical association supports vaccination, but preferred persuasion to compulsion.

It is pure luck that Omicron is milder than Delta. It allows a justification independent of the the recommendation for vaccination which remains the same, with good evidence.

However, you then have to ask why other vaccinations are compulsory for certain roles. A question never answered by anyone protesting against Covid vaccination in the NHS.

The end

It's not the end.

People in hospital, severely ill, of any age, are far more likely to be unvaccinated.

The Covid vaccines main purposeS are to reduce severity of illness and reduce rates of infection.

As has always been the case the virus and statistics, don't care if you are 30 and healthy. If you are susceptible it will put you in hospital or kill you. The vaccine will reduce that likelihood.

That is The End.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *an JuniperoCouple over a year ago

North East

"NHS requirement for mandatory vaccines are to be removed. Is it a surprising u turn?

The House of Lord's pointed out at the start that the problem was that there was no plan in place to cope with the staff shortages that could arise.

That is why there is a reversal being discussed now.

The medical evidence is that vaccination reduces the chance of being infected and spreading infection. That has never changed.

Every medical association supports vaccination, but preferred persuasion to compulsion.

It is pure luck that Omicron is milder than Delta. It allows a justification independent of the the recommendation for vaccination which remains the same, with good evidence.

However, you then have to ask why other vaccinations are compulsory for certain roles. A question never answered by anyone protesting against Covid vaccination in the NHS.

The end

Agreed

Especially the last bit.

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By *ust RachelTV/TS over a year ago

Eastbourne

Not surprising, considering it happened the report of them breaking covid rules was published.

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

The medical evidence is that vaccination reduces the chance of being infected and spreading infection. That has never changed.

However, you then have to ask why other vaccinations are compulsory for certain roles. A question never answered by anyone protesting against Covid vaccination in the NHS.

I am glad the government have bottled it over this. There was no scientific or moral justification for it. "

As it has been only three months since Omicron has isolated as a variant that's quite an ask. However, as it turns out there are already studies that indicate exactly that vaccinations do reduce transmission:

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/omicron-cannot-escape-t-cells-boosters-protect-households-omicron-2021-12-29/

It doesn't matter that you only know people who are vaccinated that have caught Covid. There are 70 million people on this country. Your experience does not represent that of the entire 70 million.

It doesn't matter if vaccines are legally required. That's a red herring. There are vaccines required, and have been for many years. This is from The Green Book, Information for public health professionals on immunisation.

'Immunisation of healthcare

and laboratory staff'

'Under the Health and Safety at Work Act (HSWA) 1974, employers, employees

and the self-employed have specific duties to protect, so far as reasonably

practicable, those at work and others who may be affected by their work activity,

such as contractors, visitors and patients. Central to health and safety

legislation is the need for employers to assess the risks to staff and others'

'Immunisation of healthcare

and laboratory staff'

'Staff involved in direct patient care

This includes staff who have regular clinical contact with patients and who are

directly involved in patient care. This includes doctors, dentists, midwives

and nurses, paramedics and ambulance drivers, occupational therapists,

physiotherapists and radiographers. Students and trainees in these disciplines

and volunteers who are working with patients must also be included.

Routine vaccination

All staff should be up to date with their routine immunisations, e.g. tetanus,

diphtheria, polio and MMR. The MMR vaccine is especially important in the

context of the ability of staff to transmit measles or rubella infections to

vulnerable groups. While healthcare workers may need MMR vaccination for

their own benefit, they should also be immune to measles and rubella in order

to assist in protecting patients. Satisfactory evidence of protection would

include documentation of having received two doses of MMR or having had

positive antibody tests for measles and rubella.'

The vaccines have been tested as much as any vaccine or medicine that you have ever taken. It is no more "experimental" than any vaccine or medicine that has ever been introduced.

It would appear that on a matter of months, there is already evidence to suggest that the spread of Omicron is reduced by vaccination. There is plenty of information to indicate the same for previous strains.

What vaccines or medicines do you think were tested "long term" before being deployed before?

Out of interest, how many years would you suggest we wait during a global pandemic before treatment? How many deaths?

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By *rivextrMan over a year ago

Glasgow

The whole vaccine charade is absurd and should never have been mandatory.

The science and evidence is not strong enough to back it.

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By *ylonSlutTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

"The whole vaccine charade is absurd and should never have been mandatory.

The science and evidence is not strong enough to back it. "

Should it be mandatory possibly not but scientific and statistical evidence is overwhelming if you are over 24. Morally should it mandatory I think not but to say there is not enough scientific evidence to say people should have it and especially health care workers is just plain wrong.

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By *rivextrMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"The whole vaccine charade is absurd and should never have been mandatory.

The science and evidence is not strong enough to back it.

Surely everyone is free to get jabbed with whatever they want. Most do as well.

But to say the science and evidence is strong to go for it is simply being negligent on how any drug vaccine is made, and approved for humans.

Just injecting millions doesn’t mean it’s safe yet! the long term effects are all UNKNOWN as we haven’t tested long enough.

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"The whole vaccine charade is absurd and should never have been mandatory.

The science and evidence is not strong enough to back it. "

Two unconnected statements.

There is no vaccine "charade". There is as much evidence as there is possible to assemble that they are as safe as they can be and that they reduce severity of illness, transmission and the chance of catching the disease.

None of that means that it should be mandatory.

Nobody has to take it. Nobody has to do certain jobs that require a vaccine.

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By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"The whole vaccine charade is absurd and should never have been mandatory.

The science and evidence is not strong enough to back it.

Surely everyone is free to get jabbed with whatever they want. Most do as well.

But to say the science and evidence is strong to go for it is simply being negligent on how any drug vaccine is made, and approved for humans.

Just injecting millions doesn’t mean it’s safe yet! the long term effects are all UNKNOWN as we haven’t tested long enough. "

Do you know what the licensing process is for medicines?

What is the length of time that long term effects will be KNOWN?

What are you medical and pharmaceutical thoughts on that?

What length of time have you or others waited before knowing or caring how long a medicine or vaccine that you have taken was tested for previous to this?

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By *alcon43Woman over a year ago

Paisley

"The whole vaccine charade is absurd and should never have been mandatory.

The science and evidence is not strong enough to back it.

Surely everyone is free to get jabbed with whatever they want. Most do as well.

But to say the science and evidence is strong to go for it is simply being negligent on how any drug vaccine is made, and approved for humans.

Just injecting millions doesn’t mean it’s safe yet! the long term effects are all UNKNOWN as we haven’t tested long enough.

Do you know what the licensing process is for medicines?

What is the length of time that long term effects will be KNOWN?

What are you medical and pharmaceutical thoughts on that?

What length of time have you or others waited before knowing or caring how long a medicine or vaccine that you have taken was tested for previous to this?"

Medicines that have been approved have been withdrawn once the side effects have become apparent. Look at thalidomide for example which was prescribed for morning sickness and caused birth defects. Medical devices are also tested but can cause issues and are recalled as in the case of breast implants, hip and knee replacements, etc.

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By *rivextrMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"The whole vaccine charade is absurd and should never have been mandatory.

The science and evidence is not strong enough to back it.

Surely everyone is free to get jabbed with whatever they want. Most do as well.

But to say the science and evidence is strong to go for it is simply being negligent on how any drug vaccine is made, and approved for humans.

Just injecting millions doesn’t mean it’s safe yet! the long term effects are all UNKNOWN as we haven’t tested long enough.

Do you know what the licensing process is for medicines?

What is the length of time that long term effects will be KNOWN?

What are you medical and pharmaceutical thoughts on that?

What length of time have you or others waited before knowing or caring how long a medicine or vaccine that you have taken was tested for previous to this?

Exactly… and after the Thalidomide episode it was agreed that no drug vaccine would be released in such a rush.

Any how, there is a lovely place called the fool’s paradise. It must feel a bit crowded there considering how sheep like we behave.

The only ones laughing are the pharma people who have imposed their opinion. Those opportunistic parasites should be held accountable.

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By *nkforthekinkMan over a year ago

london/fareham

"NHS requirement for mandatory vaccines are to be removed. Is it a surprising u turn?"

Will people like James Whale and Jon Gaunt still be refusing treatment from unvaccinated NHS nurses & doctors? What a pair of idiots they must feel this morning. Piers, Yasmin, Dr Shillary and co must all be crying in to their cornflakes. I hope they need the nhs soon

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By *ylonSlutTV/TS over a year ago

Durham

"The whole vaccine charade is absurd and should never have been mandatory.

The science and evidence is not strong enough to back it.

Surely everyone is free to get jabbed with whatever they want. Most do as well.

But to say the science and evidence is strong to go for it is simply being negligent on how any drug vaccine is made, and approved for humans.

Just injecting millions doesn’t mean it’s safe yet! the long term effects are all UNKNOWN as we haven’t tested long enough.

Do you know what the licensing process is for medicines?

What is the length of time that long term effects will be KNOWN?

What are you medical and pharmaceutical thoughts on that?

What length of time have you or others waited before knowing or caring how long a medicine or vaccine that you have taken was tested for previous to this?

Firstly thalidomide is not a vaccine. Thalidomide problem came about because it was used for things and in higher doses than it was not originally supposed to be used for. Thirdly this happened 70 years ago science has came a long way since then for instance we know more about the effect of chirality. Thalidomide was never withdrawn it is still used today, although not often, but only for specific illnesses. Are people concerned about the long term effects of covid because we know a damn sight more about those and are much worse and pervilant than anything to do with any vaccines.

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By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

"NHS requirement for mandatory vaccines are to be removed. Is it a surprising u turn?

The House of Lord's pointed out at the start that the problem was that there was no plan in place to cope with the staff shortages that could arise.

That is why there is a reversal being discussed now.

The medical evidence is that vaccination reduces the chance of being infected and spreading infection. That has never changed.

Every medical association supports vaccination, but preferred persuasion to compulsion.

It is pure luck that Omicron is milder than Delta. It allows a justification independent of the the recommendation for vaccination which remains the same, with good evidence.

However, you then have to ask why other vaccinations are compulsory for certain roles. A question never answered by anyone protesting against Covid vaccination in the NHS.

The end

It's not the end.

People in hospital, severely ill, of any age, are far more likely to be unvaccinated.

The Covid vaccines main purposeS are to reduce severity of illness and reduce rates of infection.

As has always been the case the virus and statistics, don't care if you are 30 and healthy. If you are susceptible it will put you in hospital or kill you. The vaccine will reduce that likelihood.

That is The End."

I'm aware of everything you mention, people have made their choices and if a healthy 30 year old who is unvaccinated sadly dies of covid, they chose to take that risk.

There is nothing further to be gained from pushing the war footing and trying to persuade people to be vaccinated, it is time to let go and build our society again.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *irldnCouple over a year ago

Brighton

There’s a lot of “statement of facts” going on in this thread claiming “lots of research” but precious little links or search strings being provided to find that peer reviewed published research.

Not saying it ain’t out there but I thought we established long ago in this forum that it was bad form to not link to evidence? Or are people allowed to be selective depending on which side of the argument they are on?

Personally I would like to read this research (on all sides of the argument) to try and develop an informed and balanced view (on everything).

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"NHS requirement for mandatory vaccines are to be removed. Is it a surprising u turn?

The House of Lord's pointed out at the start that the problem was that there was no plan in place to cope with the staff shortages that could arise.

That is why there is a reversal being discussed now.

The medical evidence is that vaccination reduces the chance of being infected and spreading infection. That has never changed.

Every medical association supports vaccination, but preferred persuasion to compulsion.

It is pure luck that Omicron is milder than Delta. It allows a justification independent of the the recommendation for vaccination which remains the same, with good evidence.

However, you then have to ask why other vaccinations are compulsory for certain roles. A question never answered by anyone protesting against Covid vaccination in the NHS.

The end

It's not the end.

People in hospital, severely ill, of any age, are far more likely to be unvaccinated.

The Covid vaccines main purposeS are to reduce severity of illness and reduce rates of infection.

As has always been the case the virus and statistics, don't care if you are 30 and healthy. If you are susceptible it will put you in hospital or kill you. The vaccine will reduce that likelihood.

That is The End."

These are the facts, as uncomfortable as they may be to people who would rather we simply stuck our collective heads in the sand and ‘move on’.

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By *irldnCouple over a year ago

Brighton

The Reuters link provided above does provide some potentially positive news in relation to Omicron, both in terms of vaccine induced immune response and natural immune response based on previous infection with a different variant.

The article states up front that the research has not yet been peer reviewed so maybe too early to get too excited!

“In test tube experiments, researchers in South Africa exposed copies of the virus to T cells from volunteers who had received vaccines from Johnson & Johnson (JNJ.N) or Pfizer(PFE.N)/BioNTech(22UAy.DE) or who had not been vaccinated but had developed their own T cells after infection with an earlier version of the coronavirus.

"Despite Omicron's extensive mutations and reduced susceptibility to neutralizing antibodies, the majority of T cell response, induced by vaccination or natural infection, cross-recognizes the variant," the researchers reported on Tuesday on medRxiv ahead of peer review.

"Well-preserved T cell immunity to Omicron is likely to contribute to protection from severe COVID-19,"

Wasn’t the natural immune response based on previous infection the core part of the argument against mandatory vaccination for NHS staff that the Consultant Anaesthetist who confronted Sajid Javid was saying? Recall a fair few people on here vilifying him for that!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"NHS requirement for mandatory vaccines are to be removed. Is it a surprising u turn?

The House of Lord's pointed out at the start that the problem was that there was no plan in place to cope with the staff shortages that could arise.

That is why there is a reversal being discussed now.

The medical evidence is that vaccination reduces the chance of being infected and spreading infection. That has never changed.

Every medical association supports vaccination, but preferred persuasion to compulsion.

It is pure luck that Omicron is milder than Delta. It allows a justification independent of the the recommendation for vaccination which remains the same, with good evidence.

However, you then have to ask why other vaccinations are compulsory for certain roles. A question never answered by anyone protesting against Covid vaccination in the NHS.

The end

It's not the end.

People in hospital, severely ill, of any age, are far more likely to be unvaccinated.

The Covid vaccines main purposeS are to reduce severity of illness and reduce rates of infection.

As has always been the case the virus and statistics, don't care if you are 30 and healthy. If you are susceptible it will put you in hospital or kill you. The vaccine will reduce that likelihood.

That is The End.

These are the facts, as uncomfortable as they may be to people who would rather we simply stuck our collective heads in the sand and ‘move on’."

If Easy says it is fact, it must be true!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

It doesn’t matter who says it - facts are facts, and they don’t care about your feelings.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

"NHS requirement for mandatory vaccines are to be removed. Is it a surprising u turn?

The House of Lord's pointed out at the start that the problem was that there was no plan in place to cope with the staff shortages that could arise.

That is why there is a reversal being discussed now.

The medical evidence is that vaccination reduces the chance of being infected and spreading infection. That has never changed.

Every medical association supports vaccination, but preferred persuasion to compulsion.

It is pure luck that Omicron is milder than Delta. It allows a justification independent of the the recommendation for vaccination which remains the same, with good evidence.

However, you then have to ask why other vaccinations are compulsory for certain roles. A question never answered by anyone protesting against Covid vaccination in the NHS.

The end

It's not the end.

People in hospital, severely ill, of any age, are far more likely to be unvaccinated.

The Covid vaccines main purposeS are to reduce severity of illness and reduce rates of infection.

As has always been the case the virus and statistics, don't care if you are 30 and healthy. If you are susceptible it will put you in hospital or kill you. The vaccine will reduce that likelihood.

That is The End.

These are the facts, as uncomfortable as they may be to people who would rather we simply stuck our collective heads in the sand and ‘move on’."

Holding on and trying to ensure every last person is moped up is not going to happen. Everyone knows the benefits of the vaccinations, force feeding a never ending message of compliance only encourages more resilience.

It is for that reason I feel those that are continually arguing the positives and negatives of their views are the ones with their heads in the sand.

Millions of people are moving on and living the way they have chosen, they are simply getting on with little fuss, it is time we all joined them and put an end to the perpetual arguments of the rights and wrongs.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It doesn’t matter who says it - facts are facts, and they don’t care about your feelings."

My employer who I left after their attempts to make us take booster shots, have invited me out of the blue to a meeting to discuss my return to work.

Funny that.

I wonder how many uturns other employers will silently make to the staff they threatened to sack after Nhs vaccine mandate saga, I wonder if I can sue for loss of earnings

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It doesn’t matter who says it - facts are facts, and they don’t care about your feelings."

Like I said, if Easy says it is a fact, it has to be correct.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It doesn’t matter who says it - facts are facts, and they don’t care about your feelings.

My employer who I left after their attempts to make us take booster shots, have invited me out of the blue to a meeting to discuss my return to work.

Funny that.

I wonder how many uturns other employers will silently make to the staff they threatened to sack after Nhs vaccine mandate saga, I wonder if I can sue for loss of earnings

I kindly informed my employer at the time that it is not and still isn't mandatory for care staff to have the booster

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"It doesn’t matter who says it - facts are facts, and they don’t care about your feelings.

My employer who I left after their attempts to make us take booster shots, have invited me out of the blue to a meeting to discuss my return to work.

Funny that.

I wonder how many uturns other employers will silently make to the staff they threatened to sack after Nhs vaccine mandate saga, I wonder if I can sue for loss of earnings

You’d probably want to ask an employment lawyer, I’m afraid I don’t know the answer.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"The whole vaccine charade is absurd and should never have been mandatory.

The science and evidence is not strong enough to back it.

Surely everyone is free to get jabbed with whatever they want. Most do as well.

But to say the science and evidence is strong to go for it is simply being negligent on how any drug vaccine is made, and approved for humans.

Just injecting millions doesn’t mean it’s safe yet! the long term effects are all UNKNOWN as we haven’t tested long enough.

Do you know what the licensing process is for medicines?

What is the length of time that long term effects will be KNOWN?

What are you medical and pharmaceutical thoughts on that?

What length of time have you or others waited before knowing or caring how long a medicine or vaccine that you have taken was tested for previous to this?

Thalidomide was never tested on those they were administered to.

The breast implants were not manufactured to standard.

Having some concerns is understandable, but the examples being used to demonstrate this are inappropriate.

I doubt very much that you are persuadable as you have made up your mind.

Neither of us are truly knowledgeable about this. I have read some of what the most qualified and knowledgeable people have to say and choose to trust them. You choose not to. I don't know why.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"NHS requirement for mandatory vaccines are to be removed. Is it a surprising u turn?

The House of Lord's pointed out at the start that the problem was that there was no plan in place to cope with the staff shortages that could arise.

That is why there is a reversal being discussed now.

The medical evidence is that vaccination reduces the chance of being infected and spreading infection. That has never changed.

Every medical association supports vaccination, but preferred persuasion to compulsion.

It is pure luck that Omicron is milder than Delta. It allows a justification independent of the the recommendation for vaccination which remains the same, with good evidence.

However, you then have to ask why other vaccinations are compulsory for certain roles. A question never answered by anyone protesting against Covid vaccination in the NHS.

The end

It's not the end.

People in hospital, severely ill, of any age, are far more likely to be unvaccinated.

The Covid vaccines main purposeS are to reduce severity of illness and reduce rates of infection.

As has always been the case the virus and statistics, don't care if you are 30 and healthy. If you are susceptible it will put you in hospital or kill you. The vaccine will reduce that likelihood.

That is The End.

These are the facts, as uncomfortable as they may be to people who would rather we simply stuck our collective heads in the sand and ‘move on’.

It is for that reason I feel those that are continually arguing the positives and negatives of their views are the ones with their heads in the sand.

You seem to be living in a bit of a fantasy land. The majority of people in this country received the vaccine, and they are the ones you will see going out to work, going about their daily business and living their lives in the way they have chosen. That’s why they’ve taken the vaccine, to allow them to do so.

So who are you telling to move on, exactly? The virus hasn’t gone away yet, and until it does neither will attempts to minimise the risk of catching it.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It doesn’t matter who says it - facts are facts, and they don’t care about your feelings.

My employer who I left after their attempts to make us take booster shots, have invited me out of the blue to a meeting to discuss my return to work.

Funny that.

I wonder how many uturns other employers will silently make to the staff they threatened to sack after Nhs vaccine mandate saga, I wonder if I can sue for loss of earnings

I kindly informed my employer at the time that it is not and still isn't mandatory for care staff to have the booster

Yes I know that now, I had to ask the forum, but during this pandemic my employer was throwing about little threats like we will have to look at employment contracts to include vax status, interviewing those who hadn't taken up the vaccine and later the booster for new contracts of employment. it was awful times.

but thanks to Nhs staff employers well mine are u turning.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"The whole vaccine charade is absurd and should never have been mandatory.

The science and evidence is not strong enough to back it.

Surely everyone is free to get jabbed with whatever they want. Most do as well.

But to say the science and evidence is strong to go for it is simply being negligent on how any drug vaccine is made, and approved for humans.

Just injecting millions doesn’t mean it’s safe yet! the long term effects are all UNKNOWN as we haven’t tested long enough.

Do you know what the licensing process is for medicines?

What is the length of time that long term effects will be KNOWN?

What are you medical and pharmaceutical thoughts on that?

What length of time have you or others waited before knowing or caring how long a medicine or vaccine that you have taken was tested for previous to this?

Exactly… and after the Thalidomide episode it was agreed that no drug vaccine would be released in such a rush.

Any how, there is a lovely place called the fool’s paradise. It must feel a bit crowded there considering how sheep like we behave.

The only ones laughing are the pharma people who have imposed their opinion. Those opportunistic parasites should be held accountable."

Again, if you look at the testing, you will find that these vaccines are more thoroughly tested and monitored than any others in history.

Do you know why thalidomide proved to be such a disaster and what changes in medicines development came as a consequence?

I am laughing because fewer people have died or are seriously ill.

This makes me very, very happy.

I wear seat belts in a "sheet-like" way too.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It doesn’t matter who says it - facts are facts, and they don’t care about your feelings.

My employer who I left after their attempts to make us take booster shots, have invited me out of the blue to a meeting to discuss my return to work.

Funny that.

I wonder how many uturns other employers will silently make to the staff they threatened to sack after Nhs vaccine mandate saga, I wonder if I can sue for loss of earnings

I kindly informed my employer at the time that it is not and still isn't mandatory for care staff to have the booster

but thanks to Nhs staff employers well mine are u turning."

The company I worked for that I mentioned changed their contracts stating "employees must be, or willing to take part in the vaccination programme", two carers lost their jobs, and a domestic. The home ended up closing, not because of vaccine mandates obviously.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It doesn’t matter who says it - facts are facts, and they don’t care about your feelings.

My employer who I left after their attempts to make us take booster shots, have invited me out of the blue to a meeting to discuss my return to work.

Funny that.

I wonder how many uturns other employers will silently make to the staff they threatened to sack after Nhs vaccine mandate saga, I wonder if I can sue for loss of earnings

I kindly informed my employer at the time that it is not and still isn't mandatory for care staff to have the booster

but thanks to Nhs staff employers well mine are u turning.

Do you think they will get their jobs back seeking as the government has u turned, and been caught in a lie and ignoring there own lockdown rules.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The whole vaccine charade is absurd and should never have been mandatory.

The science and evidence is not strong enough to back it.

Surely everyone is free to get jabbed with whatever they want. Most do as well.

But to say the science and evidence is strong to go for it is simply being negligent on how any drug vaccine is made, and approved for humans.

Just injecting millions doesn’t mean it’s safe yet! the long term effects are all UNKNOWN as we haven’t tested long enough.

Do you know what the licensing process is for medicines?

What is the length of time that long term effects will be KNOWN?

What are you medical and pharmaceutical thoughts on that?

What length of time have you or others waited before knowing or caring how long a medicine or vaccine that you have taken was tested for previous to this?

Exactly… and after the Thalidomide episode it was agreed that no drug vaccine would be released in such a rush.

Any how, there is a lovely place called the fool’s paradise. It must feel a bit crowded there considering how sheep like we behave.

The only ones laughing are the pharma people who have imposed their opinion. Those opportunistic parasites should be held accountable.

Again, if you look at the testing, you will find that these vaccines are more thoroughly tested and monitored than any others in history.

Do you know why thalidomide proved to be such a disaster and what changes in medicines development came as a consequence?

I am laughing because fewer people have died or are seriously ill.

This makes me very, very happy.

I wear seat belts in a "sheet-like" way too."

Please provide evidence that "these vaccines are more thoroughly tested and monitored than any others in history".

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It doesn’t matter who says it - facts are facts, and they don’t care about your feelings.

My employer who I left after their attempts to make us take booster shots, have invited me out of the blue to a meeting to discuss my return to work.

Funny that.

I wonder how many uturns other employers will silently make to the staff they threatened to sack after Nhs vaccine mandate saga, I wonder if I can sue for loss of earnings

I kindly informed my employer at the time that it is not and still isn't mandatory for care staff to have the booster

but thanks to Nhs staff employers well mine are u turning.

Do you think they will get their jobs back seeking as the government has u turned, and been caught in a lie and ignoring there own lockdown rules."

No, as I mentioned, the home closed, but they may be able to try claim loss income during the period the home was still open. I suspect some companies may still keep vaccinations mandatory for staff, time will tell I guess.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

"NHS requirement for mandatory vaccines are to be removed. Is it a surprising u turn?

The House of Lord's pointed out at the start that the problem was that there was no plan in place to cope with the staff shortages that could arise.

That is why there is a reversal being discussed now.

The medical evidence is that vaccination reduces the chance of being infected and spreading infection. That has never changed.

Every medical association supports vaccination, but preferred persuasion to compulsion.

It is pure luck that Omicron is milder than Delta. It allows a justification independent of the the recommendation for vaccination which remains the same, with good evidence.

However, you then have to ask why other vaccinations are compulsory for certain roles. A question never answered by anyone protesting against Covid vaccination in the NHS.

The end

It's not the end.

People in hospital, severely ill, of any age, are far more likely to be unvaccinated.

The Covid vaccines main purposeS are to reduce severity of illness and reduce rates of infection.

As has always been the case the virus and statistics, don't care if you are 30 and healthy. If you are susceptible it will put you in hospital or kill you. The vaccine will reduce that likelihood.

That is The End.

These are the facts, as uncomfortable as they may be to people who would rather we simply stuck our collective heads in the sand and ‘move on’.

It is for that reason I feel those that are continually arguing the positives and negatives of their views are the ones with their heads in the sand.

So who are you telling to move on, exactly? The virus hasn’t gone away yet, and until it does neither will attempts to minimise the risk of catching it."

I thought I was very clear in my posts what I meant?

To be more transparent, I'm not saying the vaccine is wrong or right that is for the individual to decide. I myself, for clarity have had all my vaccines, it was my choice.

My posts are aimed at people who cannot accept that debate, reasoning or persuasion is going to change the minds of anyone who has decided to not take the vaccine. Far too much time has gone by now, they have made their choice and continually telling people they are at risk is not news to anyone, it is understood by everyone and people have decided to live with it in the way that suits them.

The majority of this country are living their lives having made their choices that are right for them, respect that and you will not need to keep reminding people of the errors of their ways.

Peace out...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"NHS requirement for mandatory vaccines are to be removed. Is it a surprising u turn?

The House of Lord's pointed out at the start that the problem was that there was no plan in place to cope with the staff shortages that could arise.

That is why there is a reversal being discussed now.

The medical evidence is that vaccination reduces the chance of being infected and spreading infection. That has never changed.

Every medical association supports vaccination, but preferred persuasion to compulsion.

It is pure luck that Omicron is milder than Delta. It allows a justification independent of the the recommendation for vaccination which remains the same, with good evidence.

However, you then have to ask why other vaccinations are compulsory for certain roles. A question never answered by anyone protesting against Covid vaccination in the NHS.

The end

It's not the end.

People in hospital, severely ill, of any age, are far more likely to be unvaccinated.

The Covid vaccines main purposeS are to reduce severity of illness and reduce rates of infection.

As has always been the case the virus and statistics, don't care if you are 30 and healthy. If you are susceptible it will put you in hospital or kill you. The vaccine will reduce that likelihood.

That is The End.

These are the facts, as uncomfortable as they may be to people who would rather we simply stuck our collective heads in the sand and ‘move on’.

It is for that reason I feel those that are continually arguing the positives and negatives of their views are the ones with their heads in the sand.

I agree. You cannot, and probably should not, enforce compliance.

There are certain professions which have always required mandated medical standards and vaccinations for the safety of employees and patients/the public.

If this is unacceptable then you cannot do the job. That is choice.

New disease. New rules.

Choosing not to be vaccinated is fine, trying to persuade others not to with flawed information is not.

You are correct. We will have to cope with the situation as is. A more deadly variant may require another change in behaviour. A less severe one relaxation.

More people willing to accept the advice of those with the most understanding will get us out of the situation faster, but I guess 90% isn't too shabby.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ornyandachingCouple over a year ago

Middlesbrough

I turn by government whilst they are trying to bury the Sue Gray report into Boris….

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *irldnCouple over a year ago

Brighton

[Removed by poster at 01/02/22 11:30:45]

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *irldnCouple over a year ago

Brighton

So folks was the Consultant Anaesthetist who confronted Sajid Javid right or wrong?

The main thrust of his argument was that he should not be made to have the vaccine (ie challenged it being mandatory for NHS staff) as he had a natural immune response from previous infection.

*updated due to typo grrr

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"The whole vaccine charade is absurd and should never have been mandatory.

The science and evidence is not strong enough to back it.

Surely everyone is free to get jabbed with whatever they want. Most do as well.

But to say the science and evidence is strong to go for it is simply being negligent on how any drug vaccine is made, and approved for humans.

Just injecting millions doesn’t mean it’s safe yet! the long term effects are all UNKNOWN as we haven’t tested long enough.

Do you know what the licensing process is for medicines?

What is the length of time that long term effects will be KNOWN?

What are you medical and pharmaceutical thoughts on that?

What length of time have you or others waited before knowing or caring how long a medicine or vaccine that you have taken was tested for previous to this?

Exactly… and after the Thalidomide episode it was agreed that no drug vaccine would be released in such a rush.

Any how, there is a lovely place called the fool’s paradise. It must feel a bit crowded there considering how sheep like we behave.

The only ones laughing are the pharma people who have imposed their opinion. Those opportunistic parasites should be held accountable.

Again, if you look at the testing, you will find that these vaccines are more thoroughly tested and monitored than any others in history.

Do you know why thalidomide proved to be such a disaster and what changes in medicines development came as a consequence?

I am laughing because fewer people have died or are seriously ill.

This makes me very, very happy.

I wear seat belts in a "sheep-like" way too.

Please provide evidence that "these vaccines are more thoroughly tested and monitored than any others in history"."

If you type the words that you just wrote into Google, you will find a lot research papers and articles good from Nature that cannot be linked to.

The research and testing stretches back almost 20 years for the general principles. The trials were global and at a scale never seen before because of the funding and will at a governmental and population level to get it done.

Would you like the evidence that seat-belts save lives and reduce injuries too?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"I turn by government whilst they are trying to bury the Sue Gray report into Boris…."

This is definitely part of the mix. A political deflection opportunity.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The whole vaccine charade is absurd and should never have been mandatory.

The science and evidence is not strong enough to back it.

Surely everyone is free to get jabbed with whatever they want. Most do as well.

But to say the science and evidence is strong to go for it is simply being negligent on how any drug vaccine is made, and approved for humans.

Just injecting millions doesn’t mean it’s safe yet! the long term effects are all UNKNOWN as we haven’t tested long enough.

Do you know what the licensing process is for medicines?

What is the length of time that long term effects will be KNOWN?

What are you medical and pharmaceutical thoughts on that?

What length of time have you or others waited before knowing or caring how long a medicine or vaccine that you have taken was tested for previous to this?

Exactly… and after the Thalidomide episode it was agreed that no drug vaccine would be released in such a rush.

Any how, there is a lovely place called the fool’s paradise. It must feel a bit crowded there considering how sheep like we behave.

The only ones laughing are the pharma people who have imposed their opinion. Those opportunistic parasites should be held accountable.

Again, if you look at the testing, you will find that these vaccines are more thoroughly tested and monitored than any others in history.

Do you know why thalidomide proved to be such a disaster and what changes in medicines development came as a consequence?

I am laughing because fewer people have died or are seriously ill.

This makes me very, very happy.

I wear seat belts in a "sheep-like" way too.

Please provide evidence that "these vaccines are more thoroughly tested and monitored than any others in history".

If you type the words that you just wrote into Google, you will find a lot research papers and articles good from Nature that cannot be linked to.

Would you like the evidence that seat-belts save lives and reduce injuries too?"

You obviously have the evidence to back up that claim. Feel free to DM the links.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"So folks was the Consultant Anaesthetist who confronted Sajid Javid right or wrong?

The main thrust of his argument was that he should not be made to have the vaccine (ie challenged it being mandatory for NHS staff) as he had a natural immune response from previous infection.

*updated due to typo grrr"

His reasoning for not having the vaccine was wrong. The roll back on mandatory vaccines has nothing to do with his reasoning, so it’s immaterial. The encounter between him and Javid was a face to face meeting of idiots.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So folks was the Consultant Anaesthetist who confronted Sajid Javid right or wrong?

The main thrust of his argument was that he should not be made to have the vaccine (ie challenged it being mandatory for NHS staff) as he had a natural immune response from previous infection.

*updated due to typo grrr"

He was right.

He got some statistics wrong which no doubt didn't help his case as the people who didn't like what he was saying used that to discredit him.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

Otherwise known as ‘let’s ignore facts when they are inconvenient’.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So folks was the Consultant Anaesthetist who confronted Sajid Javid right or wrong?

The main thrust of his argument was that he should not be made to have the vaccine (ie challenged it being mandatory for NHS staff) as he had a natural immune response from previous infection.

*updated due to typo grrr

Why was his reasoning wrong?

Does vaccine immunity last longer than natural immunity?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"So folks was the Consultant Anaesthetist who confronted Sajid Javid right or wrong?

The main thrust of his argument was that he should not be made to have the vaccine (ie challenged it being mandatory for NHS staff) as he had a natural immune response from previous infection.

*updated due to typo grrr

Why was his reasoning wrong?

Does vaccine immunity last longer than natural immunity?"

There is no definitive rule on natural immunity, as it’s all entirely down to each the individual. However, all studies show vaccine immunity is typically more reliable and has better longevity for the average person, so yes, his reasoning was wrong.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So folks was the Consultant Anaesthetist who confronted Sajid Javid right or wrong?

The main thrust of his argument was that he should not be made to have the vaccine (ie challenged it being mandatory for NHS staff) as he had a natural immune response from previous infection.

*updated due to typo grrr

Why was his reasoning wrong?

Does vaccine immunity last longer than natural immunity?

Do you have links to the studies please?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Did the op mean to discuss the u turn, or what good vaccines are?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So folks was the Consultant Anaesthetist who confronted Sajid Javid right or wrong?

The main thrust of his argument was that he should not be made to have the vaccine (ie challenged it being mandatory for NHS staff) as he had a natural immune response from previous infection.

*updated due to typo grrr

Why was his reasoning wrong?

Does vaccine immunity last longer than natural immunity?

So the vaccine will last a lifetime then?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

When one goes abroad and has a vaccine say against malaria, if I was to go to the same place again the next year, would I need another vaccine shot?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"So folks was the Consultant Anaesthetist who confronted Sajid Javid right or wrong?

The main thrust of his argument was that he should not be made to have the vaccine (ie challenged it being mandatory for NHS staff) as he had a natural immune response from previous infection.

*updated due to typo grrr

Why was his reasoning wrong?

Does vaccine immunity last longer than natural immunity?

Do you have links to the studies please?"

Yes of course - do you know how to use Google? They are all available there, and you’ll find everything you need if you search the relevant terms. Make sure you take a few days and do your due diligence on the sources though, there is a lot of misinformation out there along with information.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"So folks was the Consultant Anaesthetist who confronted Sajid Javid right or wrong?

The main thrust of his argument was that he should not be made to have the vaccine (ie challenged it being mandatory for NHS staff) as he had a natural immune response from previous infection.

*updated due to typo grrr

Why was his reasoning wrong?

Does vaccine immunity last longer than natural immunity?

So the vaccine will last a lifetime then?"

If the virus never changes and then dies out, yes it will. Otherwise new vaccines will have to be developed to combat new strains as they emerge, which is what is happening now.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *irldnCouple over a year ago

Brighton

"So folks was the Consultant Anaesthetist who confronted Sajid Javid right or wrong?

The main thrust of his argument was that he should not be made to have the vaccine (ie challenged it being mandatory for NHS staff) as he had a natural immune response from previous infection.

*updated due to typo grrr

Ok I will just repost this from higher up...

The article states up front that the research has not yet been peer reviewed so maybe too early to get too excited!

"Well-preserved T cell immunity to Omicron is likely to contribute to protection from severe COVID-19,"

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *attoedMan over a year ago

Aldershot

What you going to do now?

Also read that it creates an issue for Care Homes who were forced to sack unvaccinated care workers.

Also read that the NHS in Wales (where there were no plans to make mandatory) were offering displaced unvaccinated NHS England workers jobs (so I guess they were following different science?)

Also worth noting that the approx 77,000 staff (c.5%) are those with no jabs at all but there are also those with only a single jab beyond that number."

Have enjoyed reading this comment it’s amazing how many have said they won’t associate with unvaccinated

But I’m sure their be fine when it comes to their healthcare

The Dr (a medical professional)

Who questioned Javid was totally justified to state what he did and ask the question that was there

But as always Javid gets tongue tied in answers

Even when he got caught and blundered the comparison of covid to flu

Asked why he’d slated ppl for saying that from the start he again couldn’t give an answer

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So folks was the Consultant Anaesthetist who confronted Sajid Javid right or wrong?

The main thrust of his argument was that he should not be made to have the vaccine (ie challenged it being mandatory for NHS staff) as he had a natural immune response from previous infection.

*updated due to typo grrr

Why was his reasoning wrong?

Does vaccine immunity last longer than natural immunity?

Do you have links to the studies please?

You've obviously seen the studies so just DM the links. So much easier.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *attoedMan over a year ago

Aldershot

"Gona be a vocal minority on these forums who aint gona be happy,all those who wouldnt be treated by the unvaxed is that still your stance?

sick to death of the pandemic think Fab should be a Covid free zone"

Would be nice but clubs have it in their rules so stuck with it unfortunately

No matter our feelings or views on it

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"So folks was the Consultant Anaesthetist who confronted Sajid Javid right or wrong?

The main thrust of his argument was that he should not be made to have the vaccine (ie challenged it being mandatory for NHS staff) as he had a natural immune response from previous infection.

*updated due to typo grrr

Why was his reasoning wrong?

Does vaccine immunity last longer than natural immunity?

Do you have links to the studies please?

You've obviously seen the studies so just DM the links. So much easier."

What’s easier for you is irrelevant to us, sorry! Get tapping on that keyboard!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So folks was the Consultant Anaesthetist who confronted Sajid Javid right or wrong?

The main thrust of his argument was that he should not be made to have the vaccine (ie challenged it being mandatory for NHS staff) as he had a natural immune response from previous infection.

*updated due to typo grrr

Why was his reasoning wrong?

Does vaccine immunity last longer than natural immunity?

So the vaccine will last a lifetime then?

If the virus never changes and then dies out, yes it will. Otherwise new vaccines will have to be developed to combat new strains as they emerge, which is what is happening now. "

I have an issue, when these parties where happening over a long period of time as we now know, were not the staff at no 10 afraid of the virus, there was no vaccine, people were dying, the country was in fear, the pm was hospitalised but that didn't seem to deter them, what gets me is why?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So folks was the Consultant Anaesthetist who confronted Sajid Javid right or wrong?

The main thrust of his argument was that he should not be made to have the vaccine (ie challenged it being mandatory for NHS staff) as he had a natural immune response from previous infection.

*updated due to typo grrr

Why was his reasoning wrong?

Does vaccine immunity last longer than natural immunity?

Do you have links to the studies please?

You've obviously seen the studies so just DM the links. So much easier.

What’s easier for you is irrelevant to us, sorry! Get tapping on that keyboard!

What is so difficult about providing some links?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"So folks was the Consultant Anaesthetist who confronted Sajid Javid right or wrong?

The main thrust of his argument was that he should not be made to have the vaccine (ie challenged it being mandatory for NHS staff) as he had a natural immune response from previous infection.

*updated due to typo grrr

Why was his reasoning wrong?

Does vaccine immunity last longer than natural immunity?

Do you have links to the studies please?

You've obviously seen the studies so just DM the links. So much easier.

What’s easier for you is irrelevant to us, sorry! Get tapping on that keyboard!

What is so difficult about providing some links? "

Why do you think you’re entitled to any effort to provide them?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"So folks was the Consultant Anaesthetist who confronted Sajid Javid right or wrong?

The main thrust of his argument was that he should not be made to have the vaccine (ie challenged it being mandatory for NHS staff) as he had a natural immune response from previous infection.

*updated due to typo grrr

Ok I will just repost this from higher up...

The article states up front that the research has not yet been peer reviewed so maybe too early to get too excited!

"Well-preserved T cell immunity to Omicron is likely to contribute to protection from severe COVID-19,"

No. The core part of the reason for not to make vaccines mandatory is that there are not enough staff. Pointed out by the House of Lords at the start.

Whatever justifications that the government is pulling out of its backside for political expediency is a separate matter.

As stated many times before, natural immunity is inconsistent compared to that developed from vaccination.

Also, to get natural immunity you have to catch the disease. Be off work. Be more likely to pass it on. Huge amount of data to back that up.

Vaccination and its effects along with all the other measures against Covid are not about absolutes at an individual level they are about improvements at scale. They may not be apparent at an individual level but scaled up to a population, national or global, a couple of percent better has a huge effect.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"So folks was the Consultant Anaesthetist who confronted Sajid Javid right or wrong?

The main thrust of his argument was that he should not be made to have the vaccine (ie challenged it being mandatory for NHS staff) as he had a natural immune response from previous infection.

*updated due to typo grrr

Why was his reasoning wrong?

Does vaccine immunity last longer than natural immunity?

So the vaccine will last a lifetime then?

If the virus never changes and then dies out, yes it will. Otherwise new vaccines will have to be developed to combat new strains as they emerge, which is what is happening now.

Because they are corrupt and idiots. This has nothing to do with vaccine development or natural immunity in response to the virus though.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *asyukMan over a year ago

West London

"So folks was the Consultant Anaesthetist who confronted Sajid Javid right or wrong?

The main thrust of his argument was that he should not be made to have the vaccine (ie challenged it being mandatory for NHS staff) as he had a natural immune response from previous infection.

*updated due to typo grrr

Why was his reasoning wrong?

Does vaccine immunity last longer than natural immunity?

So the vaccine will last a lifetime then?

If the virus never changes and then dies out, yes it will. Otherwise new vaccines will have to be developed to combat new strains as they emerge, which is what is happening now.

Because they are corrupt and idiots. This has nothing to do with vaccine development or natural immunity in response to the virus though."

The corruption is a separate matter.

The partying is about being in a very separate bubble of reality, together with a sense of entitlement. Also a belief in their own invulnerability despite BoJo having caught it. He was shaking hands before and wandering around hospitals without a mask afterwards.

They probably did not understand that vaccination meant reduced risk, not complete removal, as their policy and actions have demonstrated.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So folks was the Consultant Anaesthetist who confronted Sajid Javid right or wrong?

The main thrust of his argument was that he should not be made to have the vaccine (ie challenged it being mandatory for NHS staff) as he had a natural immune response from previous infection.

*updated due to typo grrr

Ok I will just repost this from higher up...

The article states up front that the research has not yet been peer reviewed so maybe too early to get too excited!

"Well-preserved T cell immunity to Omicron is likely to contribute to protection from severe COVID-19,"

No. The core part of the reason for not to make vaccines mandatory is that there are not enough staff. Pointed out by the House of Lords at the start.

Whatever justifications that the government is pulling out of its backside for political expediency is a separate matter.

As stated many times before, natural immunity is inconsistent compared to that developed from vaccination.

Also, to get natural immunity you have to catch the disease. Be off work. Be more likely to pass it on. Huge amount of data to back that up.

So to get mRNA vaccine immunity, you don't have to catch it?

If you are vaccinated and caught COVID, you can go to work?

If you are vaccinated, you can't pass it on?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *attoedMan over a year ago

Aldershot

"So folks was the Consultant Anaesthetist who confronted Sajid Javid right or wrong?

The main thrust of his argument was that he should not be made to have the vaccine (ie challenged it being mandatory for NHS staff) as he had a natural immune response from previous infection.

*updated due to typo grrr

Ok I will just repost this from higher up...

The article states up front that the research has not yet been peer reviewed so maybe too early to get too excited!

"Well-preserved T cell immunity to Omicron is likely to contribute to protection from severe COVID-19,"

No. The core part of the reason for not to make vaccines mandatory is that there are not enough staff. Pointed out by the House of Lords at the start.

Whatever justifications that the government is pulling out of its backside for political expediency is a separate matter.

As stated many times before, natural immunity is inconsistent compared to that developed from vaccination.

Also, to get natural immunity you have to catch the disease. Be off work. Be more likely to pass it on. Huge amount of data to back that up.

So to get mRNA vaccine immunity, you don't have to catch it?

If you are vaccinated and caught COVID, you can go to work?

If you are vaccinated, you can't pass it on?"

If you vaxxed you no safer than an unvaxed person

All this you can’t pass it on has always been a fallacy

Thus ppl at vaxed venues catching it

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"So folks was the Consultant Anaesthetist who confronted Sajid Javid right or wrong?

The main thrust of his argument was that he should not be made to have the vaccine (ie challenged it being mandatory for NHS staff) as he had a natural immune response from previous infection.

*updated due to typo grrr

Ok I will just repost this from higher up...

The article states up front that the research has not yet been peer reviewed so maybe too early to get too excited!

"Well-preserved T cell immunity to Omicron is likely to contribute to protection from severe COVID-19,"

No. The core part of the reason for not to make vaccines mandatory is that there are not enough staff. Pointed out by the House of Lords at the start.

Whatever justifications that the government is pulling out of its backside for political expediency is a separate matter.

As stated many times before, natural immunity is inconsistent compared to that developed from vaccination.

Also, to get natural immunity you have to catch the disease. Be off work. Be more likely to pass it on. Huge amount of data to back that up.

So to get mRNA vaccine immunity, you don't have to catch it?

If you are vaccinated and caught COVID, you can go to work?

If you are vaccinated, you can't pass it on?

If you vaxxed you no safer than an unvaxed person

All this you can’t pass it on has always been a fallacy

Thus ppl at vaxed venues catching it "

It’s not as simple as that. If you are vaccinated, you are less likely to be symptomatic in a way that could cause you to pass it on, ie coughing and sneezing, than if you are unvaccinated. Vaccinated people are typically more likely to be aware of the severity of the virus for others they may spread it to, so may take better steps to reduce the chance of passing it on. On the other hand, reduced symptoms through vaccination may encourage someone to be less cautious about their level of infectiveness, so may then prove an increased risk of passing on the virus.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So folks was the Consultant Anaesthetist who confronted Sajid Javid right or wrong?

The main thrust of his argument was that he should not be made to have the vaccine (ie challenged it being mandatory for NHS staff) as he had a natural immune response from previous infection.

*updated due to typo grrr

Why was his reasoning wrong?

Does vaccine immunity last longer than natural immunity?

So the vaccine will last a lifetime then?

If the virus never changes and then dies out, yes it will. Otherwise new vaccines will have to be developed to combat new strains as they emerge, which is what is happening now.

Because they are corrupt and idiots. This has nothing to do with vaccine development or natural immunity in response to the virus though.

The corruption is a separate matter.

They probably did not understand that vaccination meant reduced risk, not complete removal, as their policy and actions have demonstrated."

Did the vaccine roll out come during party gate?

so there where some parties before the vaccine roll out, they had the data, which is why they told us to this and that. am I reading that they didn't understand their own data?

being unaware of the peoples struggles is not an excuse to stay, but a reason for leaving, living in a bubble is again no reason, that's saying they do not listen to their constituents, being entitled these are all reasons to go not to stay.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *irldnCouple over a year ago

Brighton

"So folks was the Consultant Anaesthetist who confronted Sajid Javid right or wrong?

The main thrust of his argument was that he should not be made to have the vaccine (ie challenged it being mandatory for NHS staff) as he had a natural immune response from previous infection.

*updated due to typo grrr

Ok I will just repost this from higher up...

The article states up front that the research has not yet been peer reviewed so maybe too early to get too excited!

"Well-preserved T cell immunity to Omicron is likely to contribute to protection from severe COVID-19,"

No. The core part of the reason for not to make vaccines mandatory is that there are not enough staff. Pointed out by the House of Lords at the start.

Whatever justifications that the government is pulling out of its backside for political expediency is a separate matter.

As stated many times before, natural immunity is inconsistent compared to that developed from vaccination.

Also, to get natural immunity you have to catch the disease. Be off work. Be more likely to pass it on. Huge amount of data to back that up.

I will break my ***t u m b l e w e e d*** rule this once...

You said:

“Also, to get natural immunity you have to catch the disease. Be off work. Be more likely to pass it on. Huge amount of data to back that up.”

That was precisely the point made by the Consultant Anaesthetist. He had had Covid and therefore had antibodies. HE (and people like him with previous infection) did not need the vaccine (he argued). That is being borne out by the research in the Reuters article that you provided the link for (subject to peer review).

He did not argue that people who had not had Covid didn’t need the vaccine. He was focused on those with natural immune response.

So was he wrong?

If so then that must mean all the expert scientists/virologists doing the research studies referenced in the Reuters article are wrong too!

If they are wrong about natural immune response due to previous infection then they must be wrong about the benefits of boosters right? Or are they only part wrong?

It is all so confusing

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

Not if you read what was written. You are ignoring the part about the inconsistency in level of protection offered by natural immunity. Factor that in, and your confusion should vanish.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ackformore100Man over a year ago

Tin town

"So folks was the Consultant Anaesthetist who confronted Sajid Javid right or wrong?

The main thrust of his argument was that he should not be made to have the vaccine (ie challenged it being mandatory for NHS staff) as he had a natural immune response from previous infection.

*updated due to typo grrr

Ok I will just repost this from higher up...

The article states up front that the research has not yet been peer reviewed so maybe too early to get too excited!

"Well-preserved T cell immunity to Omicron is likely to contribute to protection from severe COVID-19,"

No. The core part of the reason for not to make vaccines mandatory is that there are not enough staff. Pointed out by the House of Lords at the start.

Whatever justifications that the government is pulling out of its backside for political expediency is a separate matter.

As stated many times before, natural immunity is inconsistent compared to that developed from vaccination.

Also, to get natural immunity you have to catch the disease. Be off work. Be more likely to pass it on. Huge amount of data to back that up.

I will break my ***t u m b l e w e e d*** rule this once...

You said:

“Also, to get natural immunity you have to catch the disease. Be off work. Be more likely to pass it on. Huge amount of data to back that up.”

He did not argue that people who had not had Covid didn’t need the vaccine. He was focused on those with natural immune response.

So was he wrong?

If so then that must mean all the expert scientists/virologists doing the research studies referenced in the Reuters article are wrong too!

If they are wrong about natural immune response due to previous infection then they must be wrong about the benefits of boosters right? Or are they only part wrong?

It is all so confusing

It's well known that our natural immune response doesn't count for covid. The only response that counts is the response to the vaccines, all of which have uniform effectivity and that work for all its recipients and lasts but a few months. Or....

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By *irldnCouple over a year ago

Brighton

"Not if you read what was written. You are ignoring the part about the inconsistency in level of protection offered by natural immunity. Factor that in, and your confusion should vanish."

First up can you back up the statement on inconsistency because the Reuters article makes no reference to that.

Second, in a different post you just said...

“Vaccinated people are typically more likely to be aware of the severity of the virus for others they may spread it to, so may take better steps to reduce the chance of passing it on.”

That is complete and utter rubbish! You have absolutely no evidence to support such a statement beyond personal observation. In my experience I have witnessed exactly the opposite behaviour!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"Not if you read what was written. You are ignoring the part about the inconsistency in level of protection offered by natural immunity. Factor that in, and your confusion should vanish.

First up can you back up the statement on inconsistency because the Reuters article makes no reference to that.

Second, in a different post you just said...

“Vaccinated people are typically more likely to be aware of the severity of the virus for others they may spread it to, so may take better steps to reduce the chance of passing it on.”

That is complete and utter rubbish! You have absolutely no evidence to support such a statement beyond personal observation. In my experience I have witnessed exactly the opposite behaviour!"

Really? You could safely make that assumption solely based on posts from ‘anti-vaxxers’ in here. That’s without observing their behaviour in public. Completely comfortable with it.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otMe66Man over a year ago

Terra Firma

"Not if you read what was written. You are ignoring the part about the inconsistency in level of protection offered by natural immunity. Factor that in, and your confusion should vanish.

First up can you back up the statement on inconsistency because the Reuters article makes no reference to that.

Second, in a different post you just said...

“Vaccinated people are typically more likely to be aware of the severity of the virus for others they may spread it to, so may take better steps to reduce the chance of passing it on.”

That is complete and utter rubbish! You have absolutely no evidence to support such a statement beyond personal observation. In my experience I have witnessed exactly the opposite behaviour!

Really? You could safely make that assumption solely based on posts from ‘anti-vaxxers’ in here. That’s without observing their behaviour in public. Completely comfortable with it.

Between jan 5th and Jan 20th imperial college London surveyed 100K covid positive people, as part of REACT. (real time assessment of community transmission)

65% of people confirmed they previously had covid.

2/3 of people reinfected, what does this mean to all the facts above?

I tell you what I think it means, nobody has an idea of the reality of such a complex landscape, but don't let that stop anything...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *irldnCouple over a year ago

Brighton

"Not if you read what was written. You are ignoring the part about the inconsistency in level of protection offered by natural immunity. Factor that in, and your confusion should vanish.

First up can you back up the statement on inconsistency because the Reuters article makes no reference to that.

Second, in a different post you just said...

“Vaccinated people are typically more likely to be aware of the severity of the virus for others they may spread it to, so may take better steps to reduce the chance of passing it on.”

That is complete and utter rubbish! You have absolutely no evidence to support such a statement beyond personal observation. In my experience I have witnessed exactly the opposite behaviour!

Really? You could safely make that assumption solely based on posts from ‘anti-vaxxers’ in here. That’s without observing their behaviour in public. Completely comfortable with it.

You are conflating “anti vaxxers” with “unvaccinated” which is not a good look!

The Doctor we have been discussing was not an anti vaxxer but he did challenge why he needed the vaccine mandated for him as he had natural immunity.

I note you didn’t address the point on “inconsistent immune response” which I find curious. As @Backformore just said, are you claiming the vaccines give everyone a consistent immune response?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"Not if you read what was written. You are ignoring the part about the inconsistency in level of protection offered by natural immunity. Factor that in, and your confusion should vanish.

First up can you back up the statement on inconsistency because the Reuters article makes no reference to that.

Second, in a different post you just said...

“Vaccinated people are typically more likely to be aware of the severity of the virus for others they may spread it to, so may take better steps to reduce the chance of passing it on.”

That is complete and utter rubbish! You have absolutely no evidence to support such a statement beyond personal observation. In my experience I have witnessed exactly the opposite behaviour!

Really? You could safely make that assumption solely based on posts from ‘anti-vaxxers’ in here. That’s without observing their behaviour in public. Completely comfortable with it.

You are conflating “anti vaxxers” with “unvaccinated” which is not a good look!

The Doctor we have been discussing was not an anti vaxxer but he did challenge why he needed the vaccine mandated for him as he had natural immunity.

I note you didn’t address the point on “inconsistent immune response” which I find curious. As @Backformore just said, are you claiming the vaccines give everyone a consistent immune response?"

It had already been answered in our conversation, and mentioned by others - here it is, yet again:

‘There is no definitive rule on natural immunity, as it’s all entirely down to each individual. However, all studies show vaccine immunity is typically more reliable and has better longevity for the average person, so yes, his reasoning was wrong.’

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *irldnCouple over a year ago

Brighton

"Not if you read what was written. You are ignoring the part about the inconsistency in level of protection offered by natural immunity. Factor that in, and your confusion should vanish.

First up can you back up the statement on inconsistency because the Reuters article makes no reference to that.

Second, in a different post you just said...

“Vaccinated people are typically more likely to be aware of the severity of the virus for others they may spread it to, so may take better steps to reduce the chance of passing it on.”

That is complete and utter rubbish! You have absolutely no evidence to support such a statement beyond personal observation. In my experience I have witnessed exactly the opposite behaviour!

Really? You could safely make that assumption solely based on posts from ‘anti-vaxxers’ in here. That’s without observing their behaviour in public. Completely comfortable with it.

You are conflating “anti vaxxers” with “unvaccinated” which is not a good look!

The Doctor we have been discussing was not an anti vaxxer but he did challenge why he needed the vaccine mandated for him as he had natural immunity.

I note you didn’t address the point on “inconsistent immune response” which I find curious. As @Backformore just said, are you claiming the vaccines give everyone a consistent immune response?

It had already been answered in our conversation, and mentioned by others - here it is, yet again:

So lots of qualifiers in there and no link to peer reviewed evidence! Shame, I thought maybe that one could be put to bed but alas no!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *irldnCouple over a year ago

Brighton

And to add... if the vaccines provide a uniform immune response that is not also influenced by the individual, then why do some vaccinated people catch covid and get ill but others don’t?

It’s ok I know your answer already... they provide a “more uniform” response! So not consistent then?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *dwalu2Couple over a year ago

Bristol

"Not if you read what was written. You are ignoring the part about the inconsistency in level of protection offered by natural immunity. Factor that in, and your confusion should vanish.

First up can you back up the statement on inconsistency because the Reuters article makes no reference to that.

Second, in a different post you just said...

“Vaccinated people are typically more likely to be aware of the severity of the virus for others they may spread it to, so may take better steps to reduce the chance of passing it on.”

That is complete and utter rubbish! You have absolutely no evidence to support such a statement beyond personal observation. In my experience I have witnessed exactly the opposite behaviour!

Really? You could safely make that assumption solely based on posts from ‘anti-vaxxers’ in here. That’s without observing their behaviour in public. Completely comfortable with it.

You are conflating “anti vaxxers” with “unvaccinated” which is not a good look!

The Doctor we have been discussing was not an anti vaxxer but he did challenge why he needed the vaccine mandated for him as he had natural immunity.

I note you didn’t address the point on “inconsistent immune response” which I find curious. As @Backformore just said, are you claiming the vaccines give everyone a consistent immune response?

It had already been answered in our conversation, and mentioned by others - here it is, yet again:

So lots of qualifiers in there and no link to peer reviewed evidence! Shame, I thought maybe that one could be put to bed but alas no!"

Again, if you want to Google this stuff go ahead, it’s all available. And don’t worry, the scientific community consider it ‘put to bed’, (with the relevant qualifiers) already, they’re not waiting for you to give them the thumbs up from Fab, or any other enthusiastic amateurs anywhere else either!