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we had why as a topic so
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What when how ."
all lies, even the prick rikki admitted it as a billionare i`m sure he loved the new income, luckily i didn`t buy any of the covid bullshit, still alive who knew lol, no masks, no jabs just living as i was before....
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"What when how . all lies, even the prick rikki admitted it as a billionare i`m sure he loved the new income, luckily i didn`t buy any of the covid bullshit, still alive who knew lol, no masks, no jabs just living as i was before...."
So it's great you feel that way. But here's the thing. My mum caught it and died a torturous death being unable to breath gasping for air because of it. Now I dont doubt their were bad actors in this whole episode. And that we were at times lied to. But I also don't doubt it caused the death of my mum. And a lot of others loved ones too.
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"What when how . all lies, even the prick rikki admitted it as a billionare i`m sure he loved the new income, luckily i didn`t buy any of the covid bullshit, still alive who knew lol, no masks, no jabs just living as i was before...."
I suspect this was meant to be posted as a spin off to the Why thread in the lounge, but you do you. |
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By *mp411Man
over a year ago
chester |
"What when how . all lies, even the prick rikki admitted it as a billionare i`m sure he loved the new income, luckily i didn`t buy any of the covid bullshit, still alive who knew lol, no masks, no jabs just living as i was before...."
Except poorer, more spied on, censored, and generally in a more dangerous place than you or anyone was in 2019 |
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By *mp411Man
over a year ago
chester |
"What when how . all lies, even the prick rikki admitted it as a billionare i`m sure he loved the new income, luckily i didn`t buy any of the covid bullshit, still alive who knew lol, no masks, no jabs just living as i was before....
So it's great you feel that way. But here's the thing. My mum caught it and died a torturous death being unable to breath gasping for air because of it. Now I dont doubt their were bad actors in this whole episode. And that we were at times lied to. But I also don't doubt it caused the death of my mum. And a lot of others loved ones too.
"
Sorry for your loss but did your dear mum have anything else wrong? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What when how . all lies, even the prick rikki admitted it as a billionare i`m sure he loved the new income, luckily i didn`t buy any of the covid bullshit, still alive who knew lol, no masks, no jabs just living as i was before....
So it's great you feel that way. But here's the thing. My mum caught it and died a torturous death being unable to breath gasping for air because of it. Now I dont doubt their were bad actors in this whole episode. And that we were at times lied to. But I also don't doubt it caused the death of my mum. And a lot of others loved ones too.
"
I`m not here to judge your loss, whilst i ask as a person that worked in funeral industry never take what you are told or is printed on death certificate as truth! and as has been aske in here humans that have been ill or fighting infection like years gone can get infections, i will never stand for any death certificate that sys covid related as i find that insulting and false from personal experience x |
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"What when how . all lies, even the prick rikki admitted it as a billionare i`m sure he loved the new income, luckily i didn`t buy any of the covid bullshit, still alive who knew lol, no masks, no jabs just living as i was before....
So it's great you feel that way. But here's the thing. My mum caught it and died a torturous death being unable to breath gasping for air because of it. Now I dont doubt their were bad actors in this whole episode. And that we were at times lied to. But I also don't doubt it caused the death of my mum. And a lot of others loved ones too.
I`m not here to judge your loss, whilst i ask as a person that worked in funeral industry never take what you are told or is printed on death certificate as truth! and as has been aske in here humans that have been ill or fighting infection like years gone can get infections, i will never stand for any death certificate that sys covid related as i find that insulting and false from personal experience x"
I know several people who work in various health related roles, si cannot agree with your perspective.
In fact I find your apparent disrespect for the medical profession distasteful. Though I acknowledge that may be due to a lack of understanding of the process around death certification.
A death certificate will definitely give the actual main cause of death of the deceased person.
Nita |
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"What when how . all lies, even the prick rikki admitted it as a billionare i`m sure he loved the new income, luckily i didn`t buy any of the covid bullshit, still alive who knew lol, no masks, no jabs just living as i was before....
So it's great you feel that way. But here's the thing. My mum caught it and died a torturous death being unable to breath gasping for air because of it. Now I dont doubt their were bad actors in this whole episode. And that we were at times lied to. But I also don't doubt it caused the death of my mum. And a lot of others loved ones too.
I`m not here to judge your loss, whilst i ask as a person that worked in funeral industry never take what you are told or is printed on death certificate as truth! and as has been aske in here humans that have been ill or fighting infection like years gone can get infections, i will never stand for any death certificate that sys covid related as i find that insulting and false from personal experience x"
Are you medically trained? I'm assuming you are if you are questioning the "cause of death" on the death certificate? |
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"What when how . all lies, even the prick rikki admitted it as a billionare i`m sure he loved the new income, luckily i didn`t buy any of the covid bullshit, still alive who knew lol, no masks, no jabs just living as i was before....
So it's great you feel that way. But here's the thing. My mum caught it and died a torturous death being unable to breath gasping for air because of it. Now I dont doubt their were bad actors in this whole episode. And that we were at times lied to. But I also don't doubt it caused the death of my mum. And a lot of others loved ones too.
I`m not here to judge your loss, whilst i ask as a person that worked in funeral industry never take what you are told or is printed on death certificate as truth! and as has been aske in here humans that have been ill or fighting infection like years gone can get infections, i will never stand for any death certificate that sys covid related as i find that insulting and false from personal experience x"
Wow. |
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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago
The South |
"What when how . all lies, even the prick rikki admitted it as a billionare i`m sure he loved the new income, luckily i didn`t buy any of the covid bullshit, still alive who knew lol, no masks, no jabs just living as i was before...."
6.48 million deaths worldwide is a lot of lies.
How anyone can look at the global impact of Covid and call it bullshit is frankly ridiculous.
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There were certainly a terrible amount of deaths.
And I am not a medically trained but was also under the impression that
Covid had been named as cause of death when it may not have been so.
And that true death figures from Covid were incorrect.
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"There were certainly a terrible amount of deaths.
And I am not a medically trained but was also under the impression that
Covid had been named as cause of death when it may not have been so.
And that true death figures from Covid were incorrect.
"
People misunderstand death certificates and my own experience of them comes from the death of my mother. The cause of death on the certificate was multiple organ failure. This was caused by a lung infection, not covid, which was mentioned in the death certificate. I presume that people dying from covid, will not have covid as the cause of death but heart failure or other organ failure or strokes or pneumonia, covid will be mentioned along with anything else. Cancer patients don't die of cancer, again will be organ failure or stroke or heart attack etc but it is most certainly cancer that kills them. |
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By *hagTonightMan
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
"There were certainly a terrible amount of deaths.
And I am not a medically trained but was also under the impression that
Covid had been named as cause of death when it may not have been so.
And that true death figures from Covid were incorrect.
"
This  . |
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God know how my thread went from a fun idea to this I don't understand .
but having lost both my parents and been all to familiar with death certificates. And what on them is a form filling legal requirement for the Drs. But what ever it say you've lost your loved one .as for covid its down to your own thoughts on that .but thanks to all for an interesting discussion but for some it might be too raw a subject for those haveing recently lost someone . |
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"
Are you medically trained? I'm assuming you are if you are questioning the "cause of death" on the death certificate?
You don’t need to be “medically trained” to be able to ask questions. "
There is a big difference between asking "valid" questions, and just saying that you don't believe something (and calling that "questioning" the results).
Cal |
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"
Are you medically trained? I'm assuming you are if you are questioning the "cause of death" on the death certificate?
You don’t need to be “medically trained” to be able to ask questions.
There is a big difference between asking "valid" questions, and just saying that you don't believe something (and calling that "questioning" the results).
Cal"
Regardless. There’s no rules to say who can and can’t ask what they want based on their levels of qualification. |
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"There were certainly a terrible amount of deaths.
And I am not a medically trained but was also under the impression that
Covid had been named as cause of death when it may not have been so.
And that true death figures from Covid were incorrect.
"
There have been a lot of "claims", usually via YouTube videos, of people dying in car accidents or by falling from a cliff, and it being claimed as a covid death. This is just not true, it never happened.
Cal |
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"
Are you medically trained? I'm assuming you are if you are questioning the "cause of death" on the death certificate?
You don’t need to be “medically trained” to be able to ask questions.
There is a big difference between asking "valid" questions, and just saying that you don't believe something (and calling that "questioning" the results).
Cal
Regardless. There’s no rules to say who can and can’t ask what they want based on their levels of qualification. "
I don't disagree, but all to often thete is no actual question asked, just unsubstantiated claims.
Cal |
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"
Are you medically trained? I'm assuming you are if you are questioning the "cause of death" on the death certificate?
You don’t need to be “medically trained” to be able to ask questions.
There is a big difference between asking "valid" questions, and just saying that you don't believe something (and calling that "questioning" the results).
Cal
Regardless. There’s no rules to say who can and can’t ask what they want based on their levels of qualification.
I don't disagree, but all to often thete is no actual question asked, just unsubstantiated claims.
Cal"
There’s plenty people guilty of that here. Although, I wouldn’t say that those who refuse the “official” death statistics are being unreasonable. |
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"There were certainly a terrible amount of deaths.
And I am not a medically trained but was also under the impression that
Covid had been named as cause of death when it may not have been so.
And that true death figures from Covid were incorrect.
This ."
I'm sorry. I'm only going to say one more thing as dragging through the past doesn't help me. People seem to be missing the point as it suits their agenda, some of whom are quite unnecessarily spiteful, or obtuse. I couldn't give a flying fuck what words are on my mums death certificate you see she's dead. What I know for a fact is if she had not have caught covid she would not have died when she did, and in the circumstances she did. Which were inhumane and cruel beyond imagination. Now you can have a bun fight over the minutiae of the wording on a piece of paper. But her death was caused by catching covid. The appalling Lack of treatment/mistreatment. I suspect quite a few of our older folks had a similar experience. I have no clue what people are hoping to achieve by quibbling over precise wording. It happened. The response from all sides varied between fucking inhumane, to incompetent, to criminal to OK at times. now we need to lick our wounds and move on.
If for whatever reason people are motivated to prove malfeasance in the way numbers were classified... Put up or shut up. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"What when how . all lies, even the prick rikki admitted it as a billionare i`m sure he loved the new income, luckily i didn`t buy any of the covid bullshit, still alive who knew lol, no masks, no jabs just living as i was before....
So it's great you feel that way. But here's the thing. My mum caught it and died a torturous death being unable to breath gasping for air because of it. Now I dont doubt their were bad actors in this whole episode. And that we were at times lied to. But I also don't doubt it caused the death of my mum. And a lot of others loved ones too.
I`m not here to judge your loss, whilst i ask as a person that worked in funeral industry never take what you are told or is printed on death certificate as truth! and as has been aske in here humans that have been ill or fighting infection like years gone can get infections, i will never stand for any death certificate that sys covid related as i find that insulting and false from personal experience x"
I also have worked in the funeral industry, very closely, dealing with everything from the deceased remains to all paperwork. I dispute what you say regarding death certificates.
My friend died of Covid ...no health issues, no disabilities, not elderly.A for healthy woman...She would not be dead if she had not caught Covid...
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"There were certainly a terrible amount of deaths.
And I am not a medically trained but was also under the impression that
Covid had been named as cause of death when it may not have been so.
And that true death figures from Covid were incorrect.
People misunderstand death certificates and my own experience of them comes from the death of my mother. The cause of death on the certificate was multiple organ failure. This was caused by a lung infection, not covid, which was mentioned in the death certificate. I presume that people dying from covid, will not have covid as the cause of death but heart failure or other organ failure or strokes or pneumonia, covid will be mentioned along with anything else. Cancer patients don't die of cancer, again will be organ failure or stroke or heart attack etc but it is most certainly cancer that kills them."
I understand that much as having a husband who died of sepsis as a consequence of cancer. |
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"
Are you medically trained? I'm assuming you are if you are questioning the "cause of death" on the death certificate?
You don’t need to be “medically trained” to be able to ask questions.
There is a big difference between asking "valid" questions, and just saying that you don't believe something (and calling that "questioning" the results).
Cal
Regardless. There’s no rules to say who can and can’t ask what they want based on their levels of qualification.
I don't disagree, but all to often thete is no actual question asked, just unsubstantiated claims.
Cal
There’s plenty people guilty of that here. Although, I wouldn’t say that those who refuse the “official” death statistics are being unreasonable. "
Just to "refuse" the official statistics without offering some evidence as to why those statistics are not trustworthy is IMO unreasonable. As with all statistics there will be a margin of error, but the never ending claims that the figures are just lies is not exactly evidenced. Plus, the idea that every health provider and government across the entire planet has happily chosen to support this plan is just ludicrous.. they literally can't agree on anything.
Cal |
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"There were certainly a terrible amount of deaths.
And I am not a medically trained but was also under the impression that
Covid had been named as cause of death when it may not have been so.
And that true death figures from Covid were incorrect.
This .
I'm sorry. I'm only going to say one more thing as dragging through the past doesn't help me. People seem to be missing the point as it suits their agenda, some of whom are quite unnecessarily spiteful, or obtuse. I couldn't give a flying fuck what words are on my mums death certificate you see she's dead. What I know for a fact is if she had not have caught covid she would not have died when she did, and in the circumstances she did. Which were inhumane and cruel beyond imagination. Now you can have a bun fight over the minutiae of the wording on a piece of paper. But her death was caused by catching covid. The appalling Lack of treatment/mistreatment. I suspect quite a few of our older folks had a similar experience. I have no clue what people are hoping to achieve by quibbling over precise wording. It happened. The response from all sides varied between fucking inhumane, to incompetent, to criminal to OK at times. now we need to lick our wounds and move on.
If for whatever reason people are motivated to prove malfeasance in the way numbers were classified... Put up or shut up. "
I am to see of the loss of you mom. I can't imagine how that would feel.
I for one am not trying to dispute the cause of death. |
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Every national newspaper, including the Telegraph ran with the story line that 1/4 of Covid registered deaths were not caused by Covid...
The stats apply to 1 week only. But that doesn't mean to say that it ends there. |
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By *hagTonightMan
over a year ago
From the land of haribos. |
"Every national newspaper, including the Telegraph ran with the story line that 1/4 of Covid registered deaths were not caused by Covid...
The stats apply to 1 week only. But that doesn't mean to say that it ends there."
This . |
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"
Are you medically trained? I'm assuming you are if you are questioning the "cause of death" on the death certificate?
You don’t need to be “medically trained” to be able to ask questions.
There is a big difference between asking "valid" questions, and just saying that you don't believe something (and calling that "questioning" the results).
Cal
Regardless. There’s no rules to say who can and can’t ask what they want based on their levels of qualification.
I don't disagree, but all to often thete is no actual question asked, just unsubstantiated claims.
Cal
There’s plenty people guilty of that here. Although, I wouldn’t say that those who refuse the “official” death statistics are being unreasonable.
Just to "refuse" the official statistics without offering some evidence as to why those statistics are not trustworthy is IMO unreasonable. As with all statistics there will be a margin of error, but the never ending claims that the figures are just lies is not exactly evidenced. Plus, the idea that every health provider and government across the entire planet has happily chosen to support this plan is just ludicrous.. they literally can't agree on anything.
Cal"
That’s fair enough. But you still don’t get to choose who can and can’t ask questions though as per my original point. Not being qualified in a certain field doesn’t mean people shouldn’t be allowed to question it. Even if it doesn’t seem like a valid question to you. Unless of course you have a qualification in determining the validity of other people’s question haha  |
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"
Are you medically trained? I'm assuming you are if you are questioning the "cause of death" on the death certificate?
You don’t need to be “medically trained” to be able to ask questions.
There is a big difference between asking "valid" questions, and just saying that you don't believe something (and calling that "questioning" the results).
Cal
Regardless. There’s no rules to say who can and can’t ask what they want based on their levels of qualification.
I don't disagree, but all to often thete is no actual question asked, just unsubstantiated claims.
Cal
There’s plenty people guilty of that here. Although, I wouldn’t say that those who refuse the “official” death statistics are being unreasonable.
Just to "refuse" the official statistics without offering some evidence as to why those statistics are not trustworthy is IMO unreasonable. As with all statistics there will be a margin of error, but the never ending claims that the figures are just lies is not exactly evidenced. Plus, the idea that every health provider and government across the entire planet has happily chosen to support this plan is just ludicrous.. they literally can't agree on anything.
Cal
That’s fair enough. But you still don’t get to choose who can and can’t ask questions though as per my original point. Not being qualified in a certain field doesn’t mean people shouldn’t be allowed to question it. Even if it doesn’t seem like a valid question to you. Unless of course you have a qualification in determining the validity of other people’s question haha "
I've never said that anyone "can't" ask questions. |
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"
Are you medically trained? I'm assuming you are if you are questioning the "cause of death" on the death certificate?
You don’t need to be “medically trained” to be able to ask questions.
There is a big difference between asking "valid" questions, and just saying that you don't believe something (and calling that "questioning" the results).
Cal
Regardless. There’s no rules to say who can and can’t ask what they want based on their levels of qualification.
I don't disagree, but all to often thete is no actual question asked, just unsubstantiated claims.
Cal
There’s plenty people guilty of that here. Although, I wouldn’t say that those who refuse the “official” death statistics are being unreasonable.
Just to "refuse" the official statistics without offering some evidence as to why those statistics are not trustworthy is IMO unreasonable. As with all statistics there will be a margin of error, but the never ending claims that the figures are just lies is not exactly evidenced. Plus, the idea that every health provider and government across the entire planet has happily chosen to support this plan is just ludicrous.. they literally can't agree on anything.
Cal
That’s fair enough. But you still don’t get to choose who can and can’t ask questions though as per my original point. Not being qualified in a certain field doesn’t mean people shouldn’t be allowed to question it. Even if it doesn’t seem like a valid question to you. Unless of course you have a qualification in determining the validity of other people’s question haha
I've never said that anyone "can't" ask questions. "
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"What when how . all lies, even the prick rikki admitted it as a billionare i`m sure he loved the new income, luckily i didn`t buy any of the covid bullshit, still alive who knew lol, no masks, no jabs just living as i was before....
So it's great you feel that way. But here's the thing. My mum caught it and died a torturous death being unable to breath gasping for air because of it. Now I dont doubt their were bad actors in this whole episode. And that we were at times lied to. But I also don't doubt it caused the death of my mum. And a lot of others loved ones too.
Sorry for your loss but did your dear mum have anything else wrong? "
Extremely inappropriate insensitive obvious line your questioning ffs |
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"There were certainly a terrible amount of deaths.
And I am not a medically trained but was also under the impression that
Covid had been named as cause of death when it may not have been so.
And that true death figures from Covid were incorrect.
"
You were under the impression???
Maybe try be less impressionable  |
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"
Are you medically trained? I'm assuming you are if you are questioning the "cause of death" on the death certificate?
You don’t need to be “medically trained” to be able to ask questions.
There is a big difference between asking "valid" questions, and just saying that you don't believe something (and calling that "questioning" the results).
Cal
Regardless. There’s no rules to say who can and can’t ask what they want based on their levels of qualification. "
No your right no rules , just a sense of social responsibility for the impact of your words. |
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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago
The South |
"What when how . all lies, even the prick rikki admitted it as a billionare i`m sure he loved the new income, luckily i didn`t buy any of the covid bullshit, still alive who knew lol, no masks, no jabs just living as i was before....
So it's great you feel that way. But here's the thing. My mum caught it and died a torturous death being unable to breath gasping for air because of it. Now I dont doubt their were bad actors in this whole episode. And that we were at times lied to. But I also don't doubt it caused the death of my mum. And a lot of others loved ones too.
Sorry for your loss but did your dear mum have anything else wrong?
Extremely inappropriate insensitive obvious line your questioning ffs"
Glaringly obvious. |
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"There were certainly a terrible amount of deaths.
And I am not a medically trained but was also under the impression that
Covid had been named as cause of death when it may not have been so.
And that true death figures from Covid were incorrect.
You were under the impression???
Maybe try be less impressionable "
Yes...tell that to the national newspapers leading with that story 
I will say as I see fit. I don't need your advice on how to conduct myself or appreciate it! |
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"There were certainly a terrible amount of deaths.
And I am not a medically trained but was also under the impression that
Covid had been named as cause of death when it may not have been so.
And that true death figures from Covid were incorrect.
You were under the impression???
Maybe try be less impressionable
Yes...tell that to the national newspapers leading with that story
I will say as I see fit. I don't need your advice on how to conduct myself or appreciate it!"
There's no doubt you will say as you see fit.
We all have to make our own judgment call on what we hear and say I guess. |
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"Every national newspaper, including the Telegraph ran with the story line that 1/4 of Covid registered deaths were not caused by Covid...
The stats apply to 1 week only. But that doesn't mean to say that it ends there."
Depending on what week, many newspapers had agendas leading to them being somewhat biased in their view of the truth.
Be that as it may, there is nobody on the, shall we call it "believing the scientific data", side who would assert that the published figures were ever "exact". Due to varying methods in reporting, counting, interpretation and consolidation of death records it would be impossible for the number given on any one day to be precisely precise. There would always be some marginal cases that might get miss-classified in one direction or the other. The count could be high, or it could be low. Personally (doing a very off the cuff estimate of possible sources of error) I would imagine that at any moment the reported figures could be up to 10% wrong either way.
However this does not negate the fact that an absolute shitload of people died earlier than they should have directly due to the covid pandemic. Current figures plucked from the "Our world in data" site state 205K UK deaths because of covid. If we believe the telegraph report of 1/4 of the deaths not actually being due to covid, that still gives over 150,000 people in the UK dead because of covid.
The fact is that whether it is now up to 205K, or only 150K, or as high as 250K, it is still one hell of a lot of deaths. Anyone can cherry pick some particular death certificate and argue that maybe it was classed as a covid death when there could have been some underlying illness that perhaps would have killed the person anyway - but nobody can make any rational and believable claim that there were NO deaths caused by covid. If we look at Harold Shipman for instance, it is thought that he killed over 200 of his patients - but it could be more, and it is always possible that one or two could have died otherwise. But nobody rational would say "we don't have an exact figure, therefore Shipman didn't kill anyone".
We don't have an exact figure of deaths due to covid, but we do know that it is well over 100 thousand, possibly well over 200 thousand. Nobody rational could ever say "we don't have an exact figure, therefore covid didn't kill anyone". Nobody rational could ever pretend that covid has not been a national and global catastrophe. |
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By *aulj69Man
over a year ago
dunstable |
Lol I do love this bickering, humans are so entertaining but mind numbingly fucking boring, loathsome and extremely dull, this is why I learned how to communicate with insects so rather than chase them around my kitchen I simply gained their attention and told them to " get out " 100% success rate too xxk |
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"Every national newspaper, including the Telegraph ran with the story line that 1/4 of Covid registered deaths were not caused by Covid...
The stats apply to 1 week only. But that doesn't mean to say that it ends there.
Depending on what week, many newspapers had agendas leading to them being somewhat biased in their view of the truth.
Be that as it may, there is nobody on the, shall we call it "believing the scientific data", side who would assert that the published figures were ever "exact". Due to varying methods in reporting, counting, interpretation and consolidation of death records it would be impossible for the number given on any one day to be precisely precise. There would always be some marginal cases that might get miss-classified in one direction or the other. The count could be high, or it could be low. Personally (doing a very off the cuff estimate of possible sources of error) I would imagine that at any moment the reported figures could be up to 10% wrong either way.
However this does not negate the fact that an absolute shitload of people died earlier than they should have directly due to the covid pandemic. Current figures plucked from the "Our world in data" site state 205K UK deaths because of covid. If we believe the telegraph report of 1/4 of the deaths not actually being due to covid, that still gives over 150,000 people in the UK dead because of covid.
The fact is that whether it is now up to 205K, or only 150K, or as high as 250K, it is still one hell of a lot of deaths. Anyone can cherry pick some particular death certificate and argue that maybe it was classed as a covid death when there could have been some underlying illness that perhaps would have killed the person anyway - but nobody can make any rational and believable claim that there were NO deaths caused by covid. If we look at Harold Shipman for instance, it is thought that he killed over 200 of his patients - but it could be more, and it is always possible that one or two could have died otherwise. But nobody rational would say "we don't have an exact figure, therefore Shipman didn't kill anyone".
We don't have an exact figure of deaths due to covid, but we do know that it is well over 100 thousand, possibly well over 200 thousand. Nobody rational could ever say "we don't have an exact figure, therefore covid didn't kill anyone". Nobody rational could ever pretend that covid has not been a national and global catastrophe."
My point and only point is this...
Official guidance on the issue from coroners and the NHS which says 'it would be satisfactory' to give Covid-19 as the cause of death even if it is only suspected and no confirmed test results are available.
Therefore some death causes were inaccurately reported.
I never said we don't have an exact figure so Covid didn't kill anyone....that would be just ludicrous.
I am also and not minimising the devastating impact of this pandemic.
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"Every national newspaper, including the Telegraph ran with the story line that 1/4 of Covid registered deaths were not caused by Covid...
The stats apply to 1 week only. But that doesn't mean to say that it ends there.
Depending on what week, many newspapers had agendas leading to them being somewhat biased in their view of the truth.
Be that as it may, there is nobody on the, shall we call it "believing the scientific data", side who would assert that the published figures were ever "exact". Due to varying methods in reporting, counting, interpretation and consolidation of death records it would be impossible for the number given on any one day to be precisely precise. There would always be some marginal cases that might get miss-classified in one direction or the other. The count could be high, or it could be low. Personally (doing a very off the cuff estimate of possible sources of error) I would imagine that at any moment the reported figures could be up to 10% wrong either way.
However this does not negate the fact that an absolute shitload of people died earlier than they should have directly due to the covid pandemic. Current figures plucked from the "Our world in data" site state 205K UK deaths because of covid. If we believe the telegraph report of 1/4 of the deaths not actually being due to covid, that still gives over 150,000 people in the UK dead because of covid.
The fact is that whether it is now up to 205K, or only 150K, or as high as 250K, it is still one hell of a lot of deaths. Anyone can cherry pick some particular death certificate and argue that maybe it was classed as a covid death when there could have been some underlying illness that perhaps would have killed the person anyway - but nobody can make any rational and believable claim that there were NO deaths caused by covid. If we look at Harold Shipman for instance, it is thought that he killed over 200 of his patients - but it could be more, and it is always possible that one or two could have died otherwise. But nobody rational would say "we don't have an exact figure, therefore Shipman didn't kill anyone".
We don't have an exact figure of deaths due to covid, but we do know that it is well over 100 thousand, possibly well over 200 thousand. Nobody rational could ever say "we don't have an exact figure, therefore covid didn't kill anyone". Nobody rational could ever pretend that covid has not been a national and global catastrophe.
My point and only point is this...
Official guidance on the issue from coroners and the NHS which says 'it would be satisfactory' to give Covid-19 as the cause of death even if it is only suspected and no confirmed test results are available.
The official guidance says Covid-19 'is an acceptable direct or underlying cause of death for the purposes of completing the MCCD'.
The official guidance also says a medical practitioner can fill in the MCCD with these details if they are able to 'state the cause of death to the best of their knowledge and belief'.
I never said we don't have an exact figure so Covid didn't kill anyone....that would be just ludicrous.
I am also and not minimising the devastating impact of this pandemic.
"
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"Lol I do love this bickering, humans are so entertaining but mind numbingly fucking boring, loathsome and extremely dull, this is why I learned how to communicate with insects so rather than chase them around my kitchen I simply gained their attention and told them to " get out " 100% success rate too xxk"
You never disagree with another human?
I'd find that mind numbingly fucking boring!
I'm not surprised the insects voluntarily leave! |
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"Every national newspaper, including the Telegraph ran with the story line that 1/4 of Covid registered deaths were not caused by Covid...
The stats apply to 1 week only. But that doesn't mean to say that it ends there.
Depending on what week, many newspapers had agendas leading to them being somewhat biased in their view of the truth.
Be that as it may, there is nobody on the, shall we call it "believing the scientific data", side who would assert that the published figures were ever "exact". Due to varying methods in reporting, counting, interpretation and consolidation of death records it would be impossible for the number given on any one day to be precisely precise. There would always be some marginal cases that might get miss-classified in one direction or the other. The count could be high, or it could be low. Personally (doing a very off the cuff estimate of possible sources of error) I would imagine that at any moment the reported figures could be up to 10% wrong either way.
However this does not negate the fact that an absolute shitload of people died earlier than they should have directly due to the covid pandemic. Current figures plucked from the "Our world in data" site state 205K UK deaths because of covid. If we believe the telegraph report of 1/4 of the deaths not actually being due to covid, that still gives over 150,000 people in the UK dead because of covid.
The fact is that whether it is now up to 205K, or only 150K, or as high as 250K, it is still one hell of a lot of deaths. Anyone can cherry pick some particular death certificate and argue that maybe it was classed as a covid death when there could have been some underlying illness that perhaps would have killed the person anyway - but nobody can make any rational and believable claim that there were NO deaths caused by covid. If we look at Harold Shipman for instance, it is thought that he killed over 200 of his patients - but it could be more, and it is always possible that one or two could have died otherwise. But nobody rational would say "we don't have an exact figure, therefore Shipman didn't kill anyone".
We don't have an exact figure of deaths due to covid, but we do know that it is well over 100 thousand, possibly well over 200 thousand. Nobody rational could ever say "we don't have an exact figure, therefore covid didn't kill anyone". Nobody rational could ever pretend that covid has not been a national and global catastrophe.
My point and only point is this...
Official guidance on the issue from coroners and the NHS which says 'it would be satisfactory' to give Covid-19 as the cause of death even if it is only suspected and no confirmed test results are available.
Therefore some death causes were inaccurately reported.
I never said we don't have an exact figure so Covid didn't kill anyone....that would be just ludicrous.
I am also and not minimising the devastating impact of this pandemic.
"
Yes, trying to give concrete guidelines on exactly which deaths to ascribe to covid was always going to end in arguments. Particularly when the people setting those guidelines always have some political slant one way or another (everyone has some political slant one way or another, we can't help it, people are just made that way). And when those guidelines would be the subject of debate by both well meaning and ill meaning factions.
Especially when our own government is one of the bodies that throughout has treated covid and the policies for dealing with it as a means for giving themselves extra control and lining their own pockets. There absolutely is no wonder that many see only deception in the covid response rather than honest measures to protect the people. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What when how . all lies, even the prick rikki admitted it as a billionare i`m sure he loved the new income, luckily i didn`t buy any of the covid bullshit, still alive who knew lol, no masks, no jabs just living as i was before...."
Who’s rikki? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What when how . all lies, even the prick rikki admitted it as a billionare i`m sure he loved the new income, luckily i didn`t buy any of the covid bullshit, still alive who knew lol, no masks, no jabs just living as i was before....
Who’s rikki?"
Don't know but hope they don't lose that number.
(For those of a certain age) |
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"What when how . all lies, even the prick rikki admitted it as a billionare i`m sure he loved the new income, luckily i didn`t buy any of the covid bullshit, still alive who knew lol, no masks, no jabs just living as i was before....
Who’s rikki?"
I am fascinated who he means. Does he mean rishi? Is it his nickname for Richard Branson? |
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"
Who’s rikki?
Don't know but hope they don't lose that number.
"
I've twice been to his concerts. He said he thinks he is the only person the News of the World ever outed for being straight after he married a woman ! |
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"Lol I do love this bickering, humans are so entertaining but mind numbingly fucking boring, loathsome and extremely dull, this is why I learned how to communicate with insects so rather than chase them around my kitchen I simply gained their attention and told them to " get out " 100% success rate too xxk"
Mind numbing entertainment... wtf  |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
Cookstown |
"What when how . all lies, even the prick rikki admitted it as a billionare i`m sure he loved the new income, luckily i didn`t buy any of the covid bullshit, still alive who knew lol, no masks, no jabs just living as i was before....
So it's great you feel that way. But here's the thing. My mum caught it and died a torturous death being unable to breath gasping for air because of it. Now I dont doubt their were bad actors in this whole episode. And that we were at times lied to. But I also don't doubt it caused the death of my mum. And a lot of others loved ones too.
Sorry for your loss but did your dear mum have anything else wrong? "
Adding insult to injury, nice one pal |
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"What when how .
If not now?
Where were you at the beginning of this thread lol
How brown cow?
OK we have the how we have the what the cow but where's the when
Now"
Of course its now. yep that covers it .but people still wanting contributing thoughts on the other topic . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What when how . all lies, even the prick rikki admitted it as a billionare i`m sure he loved the new income, luckily i didn`t buy any of the covid bullshit, still alive who knew lol, no masks, no jabs just living as i was before....
So it's great you feel that way. But here's the thing. My mum caught it and died a torturous death being unable to breath gasping for air because of it. Now I dont doubt their were bad actors in this whole episode. And that we were at times lied to. But I also don't doubt it caused the death of my mum. And a lot of others loved ones too.
Sorry for your loss but did your dear mum have anything else wrong?
Adding insult to injury, nice one pal "
No insult, if you take the time to read you will understand.  |
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you raise blood pressure for the wrong reasons, have a lovely weekend xx 