"#COVID19 death rates right now are lower than other infectious diseases that we live with (such as flu) and are not figures that would cause drastic global reactions" - Dr John Lee, Professor of Pathology, NHS Consultant
https://t.co/9ArDumrqa5
#coronavirus |
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This confirms my assertion that anyone who dies testing positive for SARS-CoV-2 is being counted in the mortality figures, even if the infection was incidental rather than the direct cause of the death. I believe I have a mild case of it now and if fall down the stairs today and die of a head injury, my death would potentially be added to the figures (assuming my symptoms are indeed Covid-19).
There has been a virulent pneumonia in this country of some sort since Nov/Dec - my dad was hospitalised for the first time in his life in early Jan and the wards were full of older men with ser respiratory disease. I believe that there are many others infections concurrently circulating which exacerbate the situation with the need for intensive care and ventilators. |
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It’s not about the death rate. It’s about managing contagion so it doesn’t overwhelm the nhs. We could get covid out of the way by doing nothing and letting the ones that would have recovered with medical intervention just die. We are trying to make the situation manageable. To offer those badly hit, most of which will recover with some medical assistance, the chance of the medical assistance. The death rate is not the big deal. The speed and ferocity of contagion is. |
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"It’s not about the death rate. It’s about managing contagion so it doesn’t overwhelm the nhs. We could get covid out of the way by doing nothing and letting the ones that would have recovered with medical intervention just die. We are trying to make the situation manageable. To offer those badly hit, most of which will recover with some medical assistance, the chance of the medical assistance. The death rate is not the big deal. The speed and ferocity of contagion is. "
That is not in doubt, at least not in my mind. I do think that the constant daily tallies of deaths is a little disingenuous when in all actuality, there is currently no evidence of excess deaths for the time of year. We do not seek to diminish or belittle what is happening at all and would hate for this comment or others to be taken as such. |
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""#COVID19 death rates right now are lower than other infectious diseases that we live with (such as flu) and are not figures that would cause drastic global reactions" - Dr John Lee, Professor of Pathology, NHS Consultant
https://t.co/9ArDumrqa5
#coronavirus"
Excellent we know that
Now please tell me the number of cases requiring special care for example a ventilator to assist breathing
Then tell me how many we have
Then tell me the fuction of the current curve regarding the serious need help to live cases
Xxxx |
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""#COVID19 death rates right now are lower than other infectious diseases that we live with (such as flu) and are not figures that would cause drastic global reactions" - Dr John Lee, Professor of Pathology, NHS Consultant
https://t.co/9ArDumrqa5
#coronavirus"
It's one retired medical professionals opinion..
Which is common in that area..
Perhaps if his point of view was backed by the majority of others globally dealing with the issue there might have been a different tack taken but you know that to not be the case..
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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago
.. |
"It’s not about the death rate. It’s about managing contagion so it doesn’t overwhelm the nhs. We could get covid out of the way by doing nothing and letting the ones that would have recovered with medical intervention just die. We are trying to make the situation manageable. To offer those badly hit, most of which will recover with some medical assistance, the chance of the medical assistance. The death rate is not the big deal. The speed and ferocity of contagion is.
That is not in doubt, at least not in my mind. I do think that the constant daily tallies of deaths is a little disingenuous when in all actuality, there is currently no evidence of excess deaths for the time of year. We do not seek to diminish or belittle what is happening at all and would hate for this comment or others to be taken as such. "
There is evidence of high numbers dying of a new virus which is hitting every country in the world though. People will continue to die of the ‘usual’ things. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The official UL Flu report is here
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/annual-flu-reports
posted by another user this morning. The official count for deaths in the UK from flu last year was 312, there was 209 from COVID-19 yesterday alone |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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""#COVID19 death rates right now are lower than other infectious diseases that we live with (such as flu) and are not figures that would cause drastic global reactions" - Dr John Lee, Professor of Pathology, NHS Consultant
https://t.co/9ArDumrqa5
#coronavirus"
Lethality and mortality rate are 2 different things. Nobody has conclusive data. The only certain thing is that flu doesn’t cause the 10% of infected to use a ventilator (and there are not many available considering normally icu is 70% occupied in normal time). So who compares flu with this virus is talking nonsense (and also clinically they cause very distinctive diseases) |
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"The official UL Flu report is here
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/annual-flu-reports
posted by another user this morning. The official count for deaths in the UK from flu last year was 312, there was 209 from COVID-19 yesterday alone "
209 deaths associated with the Covid-19, yes. Anyone who tests positive, irrespective of symptoms or whether it actually caused the death, are being recorded as such. If my Grandad dies of a heart attack tomorrow and it transpires he also tests positive for the virus, he would go into the stats even though he has zero symptoms of Covid-19. He does have heart failure and is "expected" to die at any time, sadly. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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People dead FROM covid.
Or
People dead WITH covid.
There is a huge difference.
The daily count is people WITH covid.
What we are experiencing is a hunger games style daily death count. Without fully understanding the meaning and circumstances this will only ever produce fear and alarm.
There are cases of people dying OF covid, these appear at present to be small in number by comparison to the total number sadly dying. This is why the UK Gov scientists class covid as having a low mortality rate.
Death is in society every day, what is unusual is to have the constant daily body counts presented on the BBC as they do when promoting war or the cause for war.
Peace be to those who have passed and those who have lost love ones. |
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Here's a plan that would totally minimise the cost to the country, avoid the burden on the NHS and let the country get on it's feet again quickly. I have no doubt that this is what certain people high in the government were originally thinking of. Some of the still are.
Personally i find the following plan totally abhorrent, but maybe that's just me having concern for fellow human beings...
THE PLAN:
Just let covid-19 spread as fast as it wants to. Let every person that catches it and needs medical care just die. Let everyone just carry on with life as normal. Have football matches, concerts, trips to the pub. Don't take sick people to the doctor, the hospital. Just ignore them and let them die wherever they are. Once a day have a flat bed truck go up and down the streets with an appropriate message playing on a loudspeaker - perhaps "bring out your dead". Take the bodies to the local tip, pile them high, burn them.
All the ones still alive in three months time will have had it and recovered - herd immunity achieved, crisis over, well done government, well done people.
Hey, when we've done this once, it'll be easy to do it again. Let's save the expense of treating cancer, just let them die. Abolish the entire health service, that'll save lots of money. Too old to work? Drain on the economy. Disabled? Tough. Etc.
This is what happens when a society starts on the path of "it only affects a few, it's inconvenient to me, I don't see any reason for that rule to apply to me". |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Here's a plan that would totally minimise the cost to the country, avoid the burden on the NHS and let the country get on it's feet again quickly. I have no doubt that this is what certain people high in the government were originally thinking of. Some of the still are.
Personally i find the following plan totally abhorrent, but maybe that's just me having concern for fellow human beings...
THE PLAN:
Just let covid-19 spread as fast as it wants to. Let every person that catches it and needs medical care just die. Let everyone just carry on with life as normal. Have football matches, concerts, trips to the pub. Don't take sick people to the doctor, the hospital. Just ignore them and let them die wherever they are. Once a day have a flat bed truck go up and down the streets with an appropriate message playing on a loudspeaker - perhaps "bring out your dead". Take the bodies to the local tip, pile them high, burn them.
All the ones still alive in three months time will have had it and recovered - herd immunity achieved, crisis over, well done government, well done people.
Hey, when we've done this once, it'll be easy to do it again. Let's save the expense of treating cancer, just let them die. Abolish the entire health service, that'll save lots of money. Too old to work? Drain on the economy. Disabled? Tough. Etc.
This is what happens when a society starts on the path of "it only affects a few, it's inconvenient to me, I don't see any reason for that rule to apply to me"."
I honestly think that is what some would prefer. |
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By *hav02Man
over a year ago
Glasgow/London |
"Here's a plan that would totally minimise the cost to the country, avoid the burden on the NHS and let the country get on it's feet again quickly. I have no doubt that this is what certain people high in the government were originally thinking of. Some of the still are.
Personally i find the following plan totally abhorrent, but maybe that's just me having concern for fellow human beings...
THE PLAN:
Just let covid-19 spread as fast as it wants to. Let every person that catches it and needs medical care just die. Let everyone just carry on with life as normal. Have football matches, concerts, trips to the pub. Don't take sick people to the doctor, the hospital. Just ignore them and let them die wherever they are. Once a day have a flat bed truck go up and down the streets with an appropriate message playing on a loudspeaker - perhaps "bring out your dead". Take the bodies to the local tip, pile them high, burn them.
All the ones still alive in three months time will have had it and recovered - herd immunity achieved, crisis over, well done government, well done people.
Hey, when we've done this once, it'll be easy to do it again. Let's save the expense of treating cancer, just let them die. Abolish the entire health service, that'll save lots of money. Too old to work? Drain on the economy. Disabled? Tough. Etc.
This is what happens when a society starts on the path of "it only affects a few, it's inconvenient to me, I don't see any reason for that rule to apply to me"."
This would be another 'Black Death', which was estimated to have killed up to 60% of the population!  |
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""#COVID19 death rates right now are lower than other infectious diseases that we live with (such as flu) and are not figures that would cause drastic global reactions" - Dr John Lee, Professor of Pathology, NHS Consultant
https://t.co/9ArDumrqa5
#coronavirus"
Another quote taken out of context
The disease isn't the killer, it's the rate of infection and the lack of ability to care for those that get very sick simultaneously that's the killer |
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""#COVID19 death rates right now are lower than other infectious diseases that we live with (such as flu) and are not figures that would cause drastic global reactions" - Dr John Lee, Professor of Pathology, NHS Consultant
https://t.co/9ArDumrqa5
#coronavirus"
OK, you seem determined to start a thread a day, so here's the quick response.
1. A retired pathologist is not an epidemiologist, or a public health expert.
2. The Spectator is not a peer reviewed medical journal.
3. As I've pointe dout before in anothe rof your incredibly tedious threads, you seem remarkably uninterested in the diferent rates of infection for covid 19 and flu. |
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"It’s not about the death rate. It’s about managing contagion so it doesn’t overwhelm the nhs. We could get covid out of the way by doing nothing and letting the ones that would have recovered with medical intervention just die. We are trying to make the situation manageable. To offer those badly hit, most of which will recover with some medical assistance, the chance of the medical assistance. The death rate is not the big deal. The speed and ferocity of contagion is. "
Phew, a voice of rational reason! |
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""#COVID19 death rates right now are lower than other infectious diseases that we live with (such as flu) and are not figures that would cause drastic global reactions" - Dr John Lee, Professor of Pathology, NHS Consultant
https://t.co/9ArDumrqa5
#coronavirus"
So how do you think this information should influence our current behaviour? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The official UL Flu report is here
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/annual-flu-reports
posted by another user this morning. The official count for deaths in the UK from flu last year was 312, there was 209 from COVID-19 yesterday alone
209 deaths associated with the Covid-19, yes. Anyone who tests positive, irrespective of symptoms or whether it actually caused the death, are being recorded as such. If my Grandad dies of a heart attack tomorrow and it transpires he also tests positive for the virus, he would go into the stats even though he has zero symptoms of Covid-19. He does have heart failure and is "expected" to die at any time, sadly. "
You are aware they dont test the dead? |
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"Here's a plan that would totally minimise the cost to the country, avoid the burden on the NHS and let the country get on it's feet again quickly. I have no doubt that this is what certain people high in the government were originally thinking of. Some of the still are.
Personally i find the following plan totally abhorrent, but maybe that's just me having concern for fellow human beings...
THE PLAN:
Just let covid-19 spread as fast as it wants to. Let every person that catches it and needs medical care just die. Let everyone just carry on with life as normal. Have football matches, concerts, trips to the pub. Don't take sick people to the doctor, the hospital. Just ignore them and let them die wherever they are. Once a day have a flat bed truck go up and down the streets with an appropriate message playing on a loudspeaker - perhaps "bring out your dead". Take the bodies to the local tip, pile them high, burn them.
All the ones still alive in three months time will have had it and recovered - herd immunity achieved, crisis over, well done government, well done people.
Hey, when we've done this once, it'll be easy to do it again. Let's save the expense of treating cancer, just let them die. Abolish the entire health service, that'll save lots of money. Too old to work? Drain on the economy. Disabled? Tough. Etc.
This is what happens when a society starts on the path of "it only affects a few, it's inconvenient to me, I don't see any reason for that rule to apply to me"."
You need to copy and paste this reply in most threads.  |
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"People dead FROM covid.
Or
People dead WITH covid.
There is a huge difference.
The daily count is people WITH covid.
What we are experiencing is a hunger games style daily death count. Without fully understanding the meaning and circumstances this will only ever produce fear and alarm.
There are cases of people dying OF covid, these appear at present to be small in number by comparison to the total number sadly dying. This is why the UK Gov scientists class covid as having a low mortality rate.
Death is in society every day, what is unusual is to have the constant daily body counts presented on the BBC as they do when promoting war or the cause for war.
Peace be to those who have passed and those who have lost love ones. "
In well worth remembering 1500 per DAY were dying in Britain long before Covid arrived. As others have pointed out the major issue is the pressure on the NHS. |
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"People dead FROM covid.
Or
People dead WITH covid.
There is a huge difference.
The daily count is people WITH covid.
What we are experiencing is a hunger games style daily death count. Without fully understanding the meaning and circumstances this will only ever produce fear and alarm.
There are cases of people dying OF covid, these appear at present to be small in number by comparison to the total number sadly dying. This is why the UK Gov scientists class covid as having a low mortality rate.
Death is in society every day, what is unusual is to have the constant daily body counts presented on the BBC as they do when promoting war or the cause for war.
Peace be to those who have passed and those who have lost love ones.
In well worth remembering 1500 per DAY were dying in Britain long before Covid arrived. As others have pointed out the major issue is the pressure on the NHS. "
..the consequences of which being patients who have curable conditions will die due to the unregulated demand on services (in addition to the exponential numbers presenting with C19 symptoms). |
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Do you know I just don't know why the governments of the world don't come to fab and other such enlightened places to find out the facts about viruses and how to run the world....oh hang on, I do...it's because fab,and other social media as well, are full of know-it-all-know-nothing-wanks.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If those that criticise were intelligent enough to do their own research they would see for themselves.
But they don't. "
If people actually listed to real research they wouldn't believe in conspiracy theories. But they don't. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
In well worth remembering 1500 per DAY were dying in Britain long before Covid arrived. As others have pointed out the major issue is the pressure on the NHS. "
I agree entirely.
My thoughts were looking towards the growing personal fear people have of this covid virus. The recovery rate is hugely high but is hardly reported. Some people are living with a great deal of anxiety in isolation. I believe compassion has an important place in public health.
Protecting the NHS makes absolute sense. It's also sensible to not cause irrational fear by citing death rates daily without giving a balanced impression of hope through recovery rates.
There's always an impact from fear.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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""#COVID19 death rates right now are lower than other infectious diseases that we live with (such as flu) and are not figures that would cause drastic global reactions" - Dr John Lee, Professor of Pathology, NHS Consultant
https://t.co/9ArDumrqa5
#coronavirus"
Lol - spend less time on Fab and more time actually researching and educate yourself. In this day and age there is no excuse to be ill informed or ignorant  |
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By *hickennchipsWoman
over a year ago
up above the streets and houses |
"
In well worth remembering 1500 per DAY were dying in Britain long before Covid arrived. As others have pointed out the major issue is the pressure on the NHS.
I agree entirely.
My thoughts were looking towards the growing personal fear people have of this covid virus. The recovery rate is hugely high but is hardly reported. Some people are living with a great deal of anxiety in isolation. I believe compassion has an important place in public health.
Protecting the NHS makes absolute sense. It's also sensible to not cause irrational fear by citing death rates daily without giving a balanced impression of hope through recovery rates.
There's always an impact from fear.
"
I agree with this. I find the whole reporting in the media totally irresponsible |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I would actually disagree. The reporting of deaths is actually going a long way to making people take notice and adhere to the self isolation rules.
Just need to look at last weekend when people weren't respecting the guidelines because "its just another flu" to.see the packed beaches and parks and people huddled together to get into shops.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would actually disagree. The reporting of deaths is actually going a long way to making people take notice and adhere to the self isolation rules.
Just need to look at last weekend when people weren't respecting the guidelines because "its just another flu" to.see the packed beaches and parks and people huddled together to get into shops.
"
Because I'm human and able to do this I agree with what you say - no sarcasm. It may well have been judged that the absolute priority at all costs is to get people away from other people.
I am not in any place to say which is most important.
From my other point of view I cannot help but feel there must be a better way than fear. I can see irrational behaviours deeply impacting very scared people. It's humane to want to help people like that.
I'm hoping as this virus progresses people have compassion for strangers who are burdened by fear. |
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Why has this virus spread so fast ..why is the government worried about it ..i think this is a biological weapon that may have been let of ,nothing else would spread so fast ...think about it logically, but who set it of ...china ,north Korea, usa ,terrorists,...makes you think |
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