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Ramadan
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By *idssissyTV/TS 17 weeks ago
Nr cricket ground birm |
After discussing with an acquaintance and to try and understand what it means more, I agreed to undertake fasting for today.
It has given me even more admiration for those that adhere to it for the month.
Good luck to all fasting. |
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"Ramadan Mubarak to all of you fasting and celebrating. "
i have a couple of friends and i always try not to eat/drink etc in front of them when it is ramadam.
but i have been invited to the meals after sunset and really enjoyed myself and the hospitality given. |
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"Ramadan Mubarak to all of you fasting and celebrating.
i have a couple of friends and i always try not to eat/drink etc in front of them when it is ramadam.
but i have been invited to the meals after sunset and really enjoyed myself and the hospitality given."
I played cricket in a team that was mostly Muslim and always felt bad taking teas and drinks when they couldn't. But they also invited me to stay after the match when they ordered takeout to the pavilion to break their fast after the match when I was still a juniour playing men's cricket and it's still one of the best feelings of camaraderie and community that I've ever felt. Good luck and Ramadan Mubarak to all taking part  |
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"Ramadan Mubarak to all of you fasting and celebrating.
i have a couple of friends and i always try not to eat/drink etc in front of them when it is ramadam.
but i have been invited to the meals after sunset and really enjoyed myself and the hospitality given.
I played cricket in a team that was mostly Muslim and always felt bad taking teas and drinks when they couldn't. But they also invited me to stay after the match when they ordered takeout to the pavilion to break their fast after the match when I was still a juniour playing men's cricket and it's still one of the best feelings of camaraderie and community that I've ever felt. Good luck and Ramadan Mubarak to all taking part "
Why would you feel bad? They're the idiots with backwards beliefs. |
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"Ramadan Mubarak to all of you fasting and celebrating.
i have a couple of friends and i always try not to eat/drink etc in front of them when it is ramadam.
but i have been invited to the meals after sunset and really enjoyed myself and the hospitality given.
I played cricket in a team that was mostly Muslim and always felt bad taking teas and drinks when they couldn't. But they also invited me to stay after the match when they ordered takeout to the pavilion to break their fast after the match when I was still a juniour playing men's cricket and it's still one of the best feelings of camaraderie and community that I've ever felt. Good luck and Ramadan Mubarak to all taking part
Why would you feel bad? They're the idiots with backwards beliefs. "
Make you feel big saying that, yeah? |
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"Ramadan Mubarak to all of you fasting and celebrating.
i have a couple of friends and i always try not to eat/drink etc in front of them when it is ramadam.
but i have been invited to the meals after sunset and really enjoyed myself and the hospitality given.
I played cricket in a team that was mostly Muslim and always felt bad taking teas and drinks when they couldn't. But they also invited me to stay after the match when they ordered takeout to the pavilion to break their fast after the match when I was still a juniour playing men's cricket and it's still one of the best feelings of camaraderie and community that I've ever felt. Good luck and Ramadan Mubarak to all taking part
Why would you feel bad? They're the idiots with backwards beliefs.
Make you feel big saying that, yeah?"
Why would I feel big? Religion and those who follow it are backwards. Specially those religions that subjugate women. |
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"Ramadan Mubarak to all of you fasting and celebrating.
i have a couple of friends and i always try not to eat/drink etc in front of them when it is ramadam.
but i have been invited to the meals after sunset and really enjoyed myself and the hospitality given.
I played cricket in a team that was mostly Muslim and always felt bad taking teas and drinks when they couldn't. But they also invited me to stay after the match when they ordered takeout to the pavilion to break their fast after the match when I was still a juniour playing men's cricket and it's still one of the best feelings of camaraderie and community that I've ever felt. Good luck and Ramadan Mubarak to all taking part
Why would you feel bad? They're the idiots with backwards beliefs.
Make you feel big saying that, yeah?
Why would I feel big? Religion and those who follow it are backwards. Specially those religions that subjugate women. "
We're you saying this on Shrove Tuesday on any of the Pancake threads yesterday? But sure, pick and choose when you want to be all self-righteous. |
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"As an atheist I dont take part in any religious fests of any kind
then there was no need to post a comment on this thread "
Of course there was! How else would someone show their clearly superior mentality to everyone else? |
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By *orny PTMan 17 weeks ago
Peterborough |
"It’s my pork chop period
you just confirmed your ignorance with that comment.and your point is
Look how they slag off pork, is that not ignorance?
Pignorance 🐷 ?"
Yes, not allowing others not to be non-muslims, without feeling bad about it.
Chicken although low in fat and being a white meat is still prone to food poisoning, spreads avian flu between themselves and wild birds. his is before we talk about the risk salmonella in eggs and Edwina Currie, John Major's bed mate. Chicken nuggets and other takeaways get the halal label, doesn't make it healthy does it.
Funny how fags haven't been banned: nowt healthy about them, or opium
we've moved on since the late 500s, germ theory is now fact. |
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"World would be a safer place without religion imagine ‘
as even shows on this thread how heated people get
"
Do you think? People would surely find other things to fight about. Where it goes wrong is when people say their "religion" causes the. To break the laws of the land. There should be one law for all, applied fairly and equally regardless of "religious" beliefs.
That aside. For those choosing to follow their religion and obtaining comfort, pleasure, whatever, good luck to them. |
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By *cLovin2Man 17 weeks ago
West Drayton |
As an ex Muslim, I have to say there's nothing to celebrate about Ramadan. It makes people hungry and moody, it's commonly known in the Muslim world that everyone is more grumpy during Ramadan. The only positive being the end of the misery.
Even when I observed it, I hated it.
My 2p worth. |
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By *AJMLKTV/TS 17 weeks ago
Burley |
It has been proven that fasting for a long period can affect reaction times. This can be a problem for professions that require sharp reflexes and responses, such as vehicle rivers, surgeons etc. Ramadan comes from a time when the worst accident would be a man falling off his camel. Times have changed. |
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By *AJMLKTV/TS 17 weeks ago
Burley |
"It has been proven that fasting for a long period can affect reaction times. This can be a problem for professions that require sharp reflexes and responses, such as vehicle rivers, surgeons etc. Ramadan comes from a time when the worst accident would be a man falling off his camel. Times have changed."
Drivers, not rivers. |
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"As an ex Muslim, I have to say there's nothing to celebrate about Ramadan. It makes people hungry and moody, it's commonly known in the Muslim world that everyone is more grumpy during Ramadan. The only positive being the end of the misery.
Even when I observed it, I hated it.
My 2p worth."
I'm ex-muslim too (though I dislike that term) but I think there's a lot to celebrate about Ramadan. I'm not saying I encourage it but I remember enjoying lots of aspects of it back when I was Muslim. Lots of Muslims will feel the same. |
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"It's a pretty sad state that this thread is so full of bigotry.
Yeah, because islam is well known for being accepting of all people "
Has anyone come on this thread and told non-Muslims that they must fast and observe Ramadan? No, but there are definitely people who have attacked the post completely unprovoked |
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By (user no longer on site) 17 weeks ago
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"Genuine question... For someone who knows little about Islamic faith. What is the significance of Ramadan on the calendar? Do all Muslims have to observe it or is it optional? "
to teach self-discipline and empathise with poor people that don't have enough to eat etc. |
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"Genuine question... For someone who knows little about Islamic faith. What is the significance of Ramadan on the calendar? Do all Muslims have to observe it or is it optional? "
Ramadan is the 9th month of the Islamic calendar. It changes in our calendar every year as ours is solar but the Islamic one is lunar so it's about 10 days shorter per year. It's considered the holiest month.
Every adult has to observe the fast unless there's a valid reason such as travelling, sickness, old age, pregnancy, breastfeeding or being on the menstrual cycle |
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"Genuine question... For someone who knows little about Islamic faith. What is the significance of Ramadan on the calendar? Do all Muslims have to observe it or is it optional? "
It’s not optional for Muslims and in Muslim countries it is legally enforced
.mWorking hours are reduced to 6 hours a day typically and food outlets cannot open , it includes as well as eating and drinking smoking playing music and sex. As with Christian fasting, it’s a time of introspection reflection and prayer. When you take meals / eating out of your life for a while, time slows down and you observe the world differently and you begin to think differently although I’ve never practised Ramadan - which I don’t believe is technically fasting - but the principles are the same with multi day fasts / abstinences in other religions.
It’s also the buildup to the big national holiday of Eid, which can be between three and five days of work for everyone - depending on the moon phase & sighting. |
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"On a lighter note, why not participate in the Hindu festival of Holi, the festival of colours and celebrates the triumph of good over evil.
If I wanted a lighter note, I'd celebrate Diwali "
Very good  |
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"On a lighter note, why not participate in the Hindu festival of Holi, the festival of colours and celebrates the triumph of good over evil.
If I wanted a lighter note, I'd celebrate Diwali "
True, will have to wait all the way until Oct/Nov. That reminds me need to visit the sweet mart  |
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Eid is lots of fun. I recall being a part of a celebration in Malaysia and saw an abundance of Spongebob Squarepants in a huge parade - I wasn't expecting that.
Definitely welcomed after Ramadan. I've only done it once just bc of where I was living. In 35 degrees heat and being in the sea all day surveying it was tough. What was also interesting was that many locals refused to go in the sea in case they ingested sea water. |
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By *ady LickWoman 17 weeks ago
Northampton Somewhere |
My son is a revert and I will admit I struggle with it from time to time, although I have to say he is a lot calmer and happier. So as long as that continues I will support and respect his choices.
I couldn't do it though. |
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I worked in a Muslim team and fasted with them for the full period.
The first few days we're tough then after that I felt great. I lost a stone but had quite a bit more energy.
I didn't realise that you can 'owe days' if you broke it for legitimate reasons and also the really devout would put a rag in their mouths to stop them swallowing saliva.
Most of the team were more ratty, plus their driving and attention span was shit.
I also saw lots of Ramadhan Dodgers too, nipping behind for a crafty fag. |
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"I worked in a Muslim team and fasted with them for the full period.
The first few days we're tough then after that I felt great. I lost a stone but had quite a bit more energy.
I didn't realise that you can 'owe days' if you broke it for legitimate reasons and also the really devout would put a rag in their mouths to stop them swallowing saliva.
Most of the team were more ratty, plus their driving and attention span was shit.
I also saw lots of Ramadhan Dodgers too, nipping behind for a crafty fag."
I saw a Ramadan dodger arrested. I'm not sure that's commonplace though as people were pretty devout and conformist. Being on the equator wherever Ramadan ends up timewise is never late evening in fact the Comoros has the shortest Ramadan worldwide. I for one was thankful of that, even if ours was just a diet of rice and beans. |
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Read an article this week about rich families in the Gulf moving to Europe for Ramadan while quite a few low paid workers pass out or worse working outside. Seems like a tough gig in those conditions. |
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"I worked in a Muslim team and fasted with them for the full period.
The first few days we're tough then after that I felt great. I lost a stone but had quite a bit more energy.
I didn't realise that you can 'owe days' if you broke it for legitimate reasons and also the really devout would put a rag in their mouths to stop them swallowing saliva.
Most of the team were more ratty, plus their driving and attention span was shit.
I also saw lots of Ramadhan Dodgers too, nipping behind for a crafty fag.
I saw a Ramadan dodger arrested. I'm not sure that's commonplace though as people were pretty devout and conformist. Being on the equator wherever Ramadan ends up timewise is never late evening in fact the Comoros has the shortest Ramadan worldwide. I for one was thankful of that, even if ours was just a diet of rice and beans. "
I was in a moderate country thankfully. I dread to think of it was somewhere hard core |
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By *cLovin2Man 17 weeks ago
West Drayton |
"Genuine question... For someone who knows little about Islamic faith. What is the significance of Ramadan on the calendar? Do all Muslims have to observe it or is it optional? "
It's considered compulsory for all healthy people, if you have health conditions or are pregnant you are excused. But you have to make it up later.
It commemorates Mohammads journey from Mecca to Medina where he was being hunted by his opponents.
Someone asked about sex, you are not allowed to have sex, or wank during the fast. But you can do it after sunset. |
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By *cLovin2Man 17 weeks ago
West Drayton |
"My son is a revert and I will admit I struggle with it from time to time, although I have to say he is a lot calmer and happier. So as long as that continues I will support and respect his choices.
I couldn't do it though."
It's not for everyone, much like those evangelical Christians, like I said I went the other way & became an atheist.
All religions are garbage in the end made up by medieval men |
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By *orny PTMan 17 weeks ago
Peterborough |
"World would be a safer place without religion imagine ‘
as even shows on this thread how heated people get
Do you think? People would surely find other things to fight about. Where it goes wrong is when people say their "religion" causes the. To break the laws of the land. There should be one law for all, applied fairly and equally regardless of "religious" beliefs.
That aside. For those choosing to follow their religion and obtaining comfort, pleasure, whatever, good luck to them. "
look at the world happiness chart and see if you can see a link forming. Religion is a problem when intolerance is inbred. How many rainbow flags are in Syria or Israel, Egypt or Singapore? |
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By *orny PTMan 17 weeks ago
Peterborough |
"I really don't get why people who claim not to be religious of any flavour, seem to be so belligerently offensive to those people who do have a religion. What happened to respect? "
Persecution that's why. look how the Spanish treated the Dutch. |
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By *cLovin2Man 17 weeks ago
West Drayton |
"I really don't get why people who claim not to be religious of any flavour, seem to be so belligerently offensive to those people who do have a religion. What happened to respect? "
I can't speak for others, but in my experience religion has a long history of abuse and exploitation if you read the history of each of these religions.
Christianity was used to justify the sl@ve trade, the way single women who had children outside marriage they've been virtually ensl@ved in places like Ireland.
Islam has it's own history of using religion to justify sl@very, not just in the recent past with what Isis did to the yazidis, but in the 19th century and beyond.
Hinduism has been ensl@ving the so called lower castes for 6000 years.
I don't mind if someone has a 21st century revised version of faith, but the history of religion is full of this hypocrisy, exploitation & abuse. We should not pretend otherwise. Is this being disrespectful? |
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"World would be a safer place without religion imagine ‘
as even shows on this thread how heated people get
Do you think? People would surely find other things to fight about. Where it goes wrong is when people say their "religion" causes the. To break the laws of the land. There should be one law for all, applied fairly and equally regardless of "religious" beliefs.
That aside. For those choosing to follow their religion and obtaining comfort, pleasure, whatever, good luck to them.
look at the world happiness chart and see if you can see a link forming. Religion is a problem when intolerance is inbred. How many rainbow flags are in Syria or Israel, Egypt or Singapore?"
You can't see the irony in that? |
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By *orny PTMan 17 weeks ago
Peterborough |
"World would be a safer place without religion imagine ‘
as even shows on this thread how heated people get
Do you think? People would surely find other things to fight about. Where it goes wrong is when people say their "religion" causes the. To break the laws of the land. There should be one law for all, applied fairly and equally regardless of "religious" beliefs.
That aside. For those choosing to follow their religion and obtaining comfort, pleasure, whatever, good luck to them.
look at the world happiness chart and see if you can see a link forming. Religion is a problem when intolerance is inbred. How many rainbow flags are in Syria or Israel, Egypt or Singapore?
You can't see the irony in that? "
The apologists can't. |
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"I really don't get why people who claim not to be religious of any flavour, seem to be so belligerently offensive to those people who do have a religion. What happened to respect?
I can't speak for others, but in my experience religion has a long history of abuse and exploitation if you read the history of each of these religions.
Christianity was used to justify the sl@ve trade, the way single women who had children outside marriage they've been virtually ensl@ved in places like Ireland.
Islam has it's own history of using religion to justify sl@very, not just in the recent past with what Isis did to the yazidis, but in the 19th century and beyond.
Hinduism has been ensl@ving the so called lower castes for 6000 years.
I don't mind if someone has a 21st century revised version of faith, but the history of religion is full of this hypocrisy, exploitation & abuse. We should not pretend otherwise. Is this being disrespectful?"
Human history is full of exploitation with sl@very not just being a religious excuse. Human beings do not need religion as an excuse to be dicks to each other. |
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As someone who grew up as a fundamentalist Muslim in a fundamentalist Muslim community, I think all this lecturing doesn't really help. A lot of Muslims believe in the religion as it is, so it doesn't help to just tell them they're whole worldview is incorrect.
I think it's important to actually learn about the religion and be able to come to it from a point of knowledge and appreciation rather than condescension. I think also empowering people to come their own conclusions is helpful. That is, equipping people with the mindset of the scientific method and the historical-critical method |
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By *AJMLKTV/TS 17 weeks ago
Burley |
"World would be a safer place without religion imagine ‘
as even shows on this thread how heated people get
Do you think? People would surely find other things to fight about. Where it goes wrong is when people say their "religion" causes the. To break the laws of the land. There should be one law for all, applied fairly and equally regardless of "religious" beliefs.
That aside. For those choosing to follow their religion and obtaining comfort, pleasure, whatever, good luck to them.
look at the world happiness chart and see if you can see a link forming. Religion is a problem when intolerance is inbred. How many rainbow flags are in Syria or Israel, Egypt or Singapore?"
I agree with you re Syria, Egypt and Singapore, but not Israel.
Israel is considered one of the most inclusive countries in the world for LGBTQ people. There are annual pride parades in Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Haifa, and Be'er Sheva, the one in Tel Aviv is the biggest in Asia and one of the biggest in the world. Same-sex marriages are legally recognised and there are many openly LGBTQ people in government and public office. |
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By *AJMLKTV/TS 17 weeks ago
Burley |
"As someone who grew up as a fundamentalist Muslim in a fundamentalist Muslim community, I think all this lecturing doesn't really help. A lot of Muslims believe in the religion as it is, so it doesn't help to just tell them they're whole worldview is incorrect.
I think it's important to actually learn about the religion and be able to come to it from a point of knowledge and appreciation rather than condescension. I think also empowering people to come their own conclusions is helpful. That is, equipping people with the mindset of the scientific method and the historical-critical method"
From a critical point of view, do you believe that Islam subjugates women? |
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"World would be a safer place without religion imagine ‘
as even shows on this thread how heated people get
Do you think? People would surely find other things to fight about. Where it goes wrong is when people say their "religion" causes the. To break the laws of the land. There should be one law for all, applied fairly and equally regardless of "religious" beliefs.
That aside. For those choosing to follow their religion and obtaining comfort, pleasure, whatever, good luck to them.
look at the world happiness chart and see if you can see a link forming. Religion is a problem when intolerance is inbred. How many rainbow flags are in Syria or Israel, Egypt or Singapore?
I agree with you re Syria, Egypt and Singapore, but not Israel.
Israel is considered one of the most inclusive countries in the world for LGBTQ people. There are annual pride parades in Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Haifa, and Be'er Sheva, the one in Tel Aviv is the biggest in Asia and one of the biggest in the world. Same-sex marriages are legally recognised and there are many openly LGBTQ people in government and public office. "
A quick search will find that same-sex marriage is not legal in Israel as it's not religiously recognised. Also, I wonder how many queer people are killed or dehomed by Israel as it expands in Gaza and the West Bank. |
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"As someone who grew up as a fundamentalist Muslim in a fundamentalist Muslim community, I think all this lecturing doesn't really help. A lot of Muslims believe in the religion as it is, so it doesn't help to just tell them they're whole worldview is incorrect.
I think it's important to actually learn about the religion and be able to come to it from a point of knowledge and appreciation rather than condescension. I think also empowering people to come their own conclusions is helpful. That is, equipping people with the mindset of the scientific method and the historical-critical method
From a critical point of view, do you believe that Islam subjugates women?"
I'm not Muslim nor is my interest in Islam from a feminist point of view, so I have not studied this in detail. However, in order to answer your question, we need to define Islam. Do you mean the Qur'an or the Qur'an + Hadith or a strand of Islam in general?
To answer based on what I think you define as Islam, then yes, women are subjugated. But that's not the be all and end all of Islam, and there are plenty of feminist readings of the Qur'an which redefine these ideas. |
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By *AJMLKTV/TS 17 weeks ago
Burley |
"World would be a safer place without religion imagine ‘
as even shows on this thread how heated people get
Do you think? People would surely find other things to fight about. Where it goes wrong is when people say their "religion" causes the. To break the laws of the land. There should be one law for all, applied fairly and equally regardless of "religious" beliefs.
That aside. For those choosing to follow their religion and obtaining comfort, pleasure, whatever, good luck to them.
look at the world happiness chart and see if you can see a link forming. Religion is a problem when intolerance is inbred. How many rainbow flags are in Syria or Israel, Egypt or Singapore?
I agree with you re Syria, Egypt and Singapore, but not Israel.
Israel is considered one of the most inclusive countries in the world for LGBTQ people. There are annual pride parades in Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Haifa, and Be'er Sheva, the one in Tel Aviv is the biggest in Asia and one of the biggest in the world. Same-sex marriages are legally recognised and there are many openly LGBTQ people in government and public office.
A quick search will find that same-sex marriage is not legal in Israel as it's not religiously recognised. Also, I wonder how many queer people are killed or dehomed by Israel as it expands in Gaza and the West Bank."
As I said in my post, same-sex marriages are legally recognised. They are not performed in Israel because Israel has no version of civil marriage. And don't try to shoehorn the Gaza situation into this thread, it's not what it's about. Thanks. |
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By *AJMLKTV/TS 17 weeks ago
Burley |
"As someone who grew up as a fundamentalist Muslim in a fundamentalist Muslim community, I think all this lecturing doesn't really help. A lot of Muslims believe in the religion as it is, so it doesn't help to just tell them they're whole worldview is incorrect.
I think it's important to actually learn about the religion and be able to come to it from a point of knowledge and appreciation rather than condescension. I think also empowering people to come their own conclusions is helpful. That is, equipping people with the mindset of the scientific method and the historical-critical method
From a critical point of view, do you believe that Islam subjugates women?
I'm not Muslim nor is my interest in Islam from a feminist point of view, so I have not studied this in detail. However, in order to answer your question, we need to define Islam. Do you mean the Qur'an or the Qur'an + Hadith or a strand of Islam in general?
To answer based on what I think you define as Islam, then yes, women are subjugated. But that's not the be all and end all of Islam, and there are plenty of feminist readings of the Qur'an which redefine these ideas."
You said in your post "A lot of Muslims believe in the religion as it is, so it doesn't help to just tell them they're whole worldview is incorrect."
Bearing in mind that you agreed that Islam, in general, subjugates women and I'm sure you will also agree that Islam harshly discriminates against LGBTQ folk? Then yes, Islam needs to be told that their worldview is incorrect in these respects and is certainly not tolerated, or welcomed, by decent people. |
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"It's a pretty sad state that this thread is so full of bigotry."
I agree. 100%.
Some people are simply negative, bigoted and intolerant.
If someone chooses to follow a particular religious path, that's their choice.
To berate them or attempt to belittle that choice says a great deal about that person.
They're entitled to their opinion but I find it interesting that they feel the need to display their small-minded ignorance on, what was, a positive post.
Jummah Mubarak
Ramadan Mubarak |
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"I really don't get why people who claim not to be religious of any flavour, seem to be so belligerently offensive to those people who do have a religion. What happened to respect?
I can't speak for others, but in my experience religion has a long history of abuse and exploitation if you read the history of each of these religions.
Christianity was used to justify the sl@ve trade, the way single women who had children outside marriage they've been virtually ensl@ved in places like Ireland.
Islam has it's own history of using religion to justify sl@very, not just in the recent past with what Isis did to the yazidis, but in the 19th century and beyond.
Hinduism has been ensl@ving the so called lower castes for 6000 years.
I don't mind if someone has a 21st century revised version of faith, but the history of religion is full of this hypocrisy, exploitation & abuse. We should not pretend otherwise. Is this being disrespectful?"
The history of the world is full of exploitation, hypocrisy and abuse, it’s got a little to do with religion, it just so happened religion was more prominent and society was more secular the further back you go in time, because religion, particularly the Torah formed the basis of law and civilised society.
Your anger and need to be offensive and disrespectful is not rooted in religion |
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"It's a pretty sad state that this thread is so full of bigotry.
I agree. 100%.
Some people are simply negative, bigoted and intolerant.
If someone chooses to follow a particular religious path, that's their choice.
To berate them or attempt to belittle that choice says a great deal about that person.
They're entitled to their opinion but I find it interesting that they feel the need to display their small-minded ignorance on, what was, a positive post.
Jummah Mubarak
Ramadan Mubarak "
People are angry at the world and insecure, for all kinds of reasons, they will vent it through anything that represents things they don’t have, whether that’s the happiness of Harry and Megan or the peace of people of faith ! |
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"As an atheist I dont take part in any religious fests of any kind then there was no need to post a comment on this thread "
I’m entitled to an opinion and forums are there for that , we still have freedom of speech in the uk ,
I haven’t said anything derogatory or pinpointed any religion
If you don’t like my views
Don’t read them |
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"One thing I learnt as a paramedic in London for 20 years - avoid getting into taxis driven by Asian guys late afternoon/early evening during ramadan. The accident rate skyrockets."
I believe traffic accidents increase by about 25% in Muslim countries during Ramadan. |
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"As someone who grew up as a fundamentalist Muslim in a fundamentalist Muslim community, I think all this lecturing doesn't really help. A lot of Muslims believe in the religion as it is, so it doesn't help to just tell them they're whole worldview is incorrect.
I think it's important to actually learn about the religion and be able to come to it from a point of knowledge and appreciation rather than condescension. I think also empowering people to come their own conclusions is helpful. That is, equipping people with the mindset of the scientific method and the historical-critical method
From a critical point of view, do you believe that Islam subjugates women?
I'm not Muslim nor is my interest in Islam from a feminist point of view, so I have not studied this in detail. However, in order to answer your question, we need to define Islam. Do you mean the Qur'an or the Qur'an + Hadith or a strand of Islam in general?
To answer based on what I think you define as Islam, then yes, women are subjugated. But that's not the be all and end all of Islam, and there are plenty of feminist readings of the Qur'an which redefine these ideas.
You said in your post "A lot of Muslims believe in the religion as it is, so it doesn't help to just tell them they're whole worldview is incorrect."
Bearing in mind that you agreed that Islam, in general, subjugates women and I'm sure you will also agree that Islam harshly discriminates against LGBTQ folk? Then yes, Islam needs to be told that their worldview is incorrect in these respects and is certainly not tolerated, or welcomed, by decent people."
Is it "incorrect" because a voiciferius minority say it is so? Or is it correct for them? Or is neither correct nor incorrect and simply part of their values which they choose. Who decides *we* are right and "they" are wrong? In "their" own country? |
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"As an atheist I dont take part in any religious fests of any kind then there was no need to post a comment on this thread
I’m entitled to an opinion and forums are there for that , we still have freedom of speech in the uk ,
I haven’t said anything derogatory or pinpointed any religion
If you don’t like my views
Don’t read them "
Well you have pin pointed a religion here haven't you? As someone else said, did you have any 'opinions' on any shrove Tuesday threads? Or Christmas threads? Will we be seeing your sparkling, educated responses on any upcoming Easter threads? Or are Christian based religious activities ok, even for an atheist such as yourself?
Evie |
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By (user no longer on site) 17 weeks ago
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I have faith but don't believe in any organised religion, but I do respect the beliefs of those that do. It actually boggles my mind at times how hateful people can be. Maybe I'm nieve, but I like to imagine a world where everyone is kind and considerate to others, it would be a beautiful place to live. |
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By *AJMLKTV/TS 17 weeks ago
Burley |
"As someone who grew up as a fundamentalist Muslim in a fundamentalist Muslim community, I think all this lecturing doesn't really help. A lot of Muslims believe in the religion as it is, so it doesn't help to just tell them they're whole worldview is incorrect.
I think it's important to actually learn about the religion and be able to come to it from a point of knowledge and appreciation rather than condescension. I think also empowering people to come their own conclusions is helpful. That is, equipping people with the mindset of the scientific method and the historical-critical method
From a critical point of view, do you believe that Islam subjugates women?
I'm not Muslim nor is my interest in Islam from a feminist point of view, so I have not studied this in detail. However, in order to answer your question, we need to define Islam. Do you mean the Qur'an or the Qur'an + Hadith or a strand of Islam in general?
To answer based on what I think you define as Islam, then yes, women are subjugated. But that's not the be all and end all of Islam, and there are plenty of feminist readings of the Qur'an which redefine these ideas.
You said in your post "A lot of Muslims believe in the religion as it is, so it doesn't help to just tell them they're whole worldview is incorrect."
Bearing in mind that you agreed that Islam, in general, subjugates women and I'm sure you will also agree that Islam harshly discriminates against LGBTQ folk? Then yes, Islam needs to be told that their worldview is incorrect in these respects and is certainly not tolerated, or welcomed, by decent people.
Is it "incorrect" because a voiciferius minority say it is so? Or is it correct for them? Or is neither correct nor incorrect and simply part of their values which they choose. Who decides *we* are right and "they" are wrong? In "their" own country? "
Is it really just a "vociferous minority" who think that misogyny and discrimination against minorities is wrong? I don't think so, but that is just my belief. It just seems to be the usual battle of the bandwagons on here. |
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By *orny PTMan 17 weeks ago
Peterborough |
"World would be a safer place without religion imagine ‘
as even shows on this thread how heated people get
Do you think? People would surely find other things to fight about. Where it goes wrong is when people say their "religion" causes the. To break the laws of the land. There should be one law for all, applied fairly and equally regardless of "religious" beliefs.
That aside. For those choosing to follow their religion and obtaining comfort, pleasure, whatever, good luck to them.
look at the world happiness chart and see if you can see a link forming. Religion is a problem when intolerance is inbred. How many rainbow flags are in Syria or Israel, Egypt or Singapore?
I agree with you re Syria, Egypt and Singapore, but not Israel.
Israel is considered one of the most inclusive countries in the world for LGBTQ people. There are annual pride parades in Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Haifa, and Be'er Sheva, the one in Tel Aviv is the biggest in Asia and one of the biggest in the world. Same-sex marriages are legally recognised and there are many openly LGBTQ people in government and public office. "
I knew that Israel was on par with Brighton. That's good to hear.
The question is this, is Queers for Palestine actually welcome in Palestine? |
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By (user no longer on site) 17 weeks ago
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"World would be a safer place without religion imagine ‘
as even shows on this thread how heated people get
Do you think? People would surely find other things to fight about. Where it goes wrong is when people say their "religion" causes the. To break the laws of the land. There should be one law for all, applied fairly and equally regardless of "religious" beliefs.
That aside. For those choosing to follow their religion and obtaining comfort, pleasure, whatever, good luck to them.
look at the world happiness chart and see if you can see a link forming. Religion is a problem when intolerance is inbred. How many rainbow flags are in Syria or Israel, Egypt or Singapore?
I agree with you re Syria, Egypt and Singapore, but not Israel.
Israel is considered one of the most inclusive countries in the world for LGBTQ people. There are annual pride parades in Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Haifa, and Be'er Sheva, the one in Tel Aviv is the biggest in Asia and one of the biggest in the world. Same-sex marriages are legally recognised and there are many openly LGBTQ people in government and public office.
I knew that Israel was on par with Brighton. That's good to hear.
The question is this, is Queers for Palestine actually welcome in Palestine?"
The political systems themselves I'm not sure..
Years ago, when I used facebook, there was a large group on there that I joined called 'palestinian atheists' .
-I liked that group a lot.
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By *AJMLKTV/TS 17 weeks ago
Burley |
"World would be a safer place without religion imagine ‘
as even shows on this thread how heated people get
Do you think? People would surely find other things to fight about. Where it goes wrong is when people say their "religion" causes the. To break the laws of the land. There should be one law for all, applied fairly and equally regardless of "religious" beliefs.
That aside. For those choosing to follow their religion and obtaining comfort, pleasure, whatever, good luck to them.
look at the world happiness chart and see if you can see a link forming. Religion is a problem when intolerance is inbred. How many rainbow flags are in Syria or Israel, Egypt or Singapore?
I agree with you re Syria, Egypt and Singapore, but not Israel.
Israel is considered one of the most inclusive countries in the world for LGBTQ people. There are annual pride parades in Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Haifa, and Be'er Sheva, the one in Tel Aviv is the biggest in Asia and one of the biggest in the world. Same-sex marriages are legally recognised and there are many openly LGBTQ people in government and public office.
I knew that Israel was on par with Brighton. That's good to hear.
The question is this, is Queers for Palestine actually welcome in Palestine?"
I would hope that "Queers for Palestine" would be welcome in Palestine, but I somehow doubt it. Long before the current conflict, Palestine was on Amnesty International's radar for violent acts against "suspected" homosexuals, amongst other violations of human rights. I don't know if that has changed. I have no problem with whatever whacky beliefs people have, it's when those beliefs impact negatively, and cause suffering to non-adherents to those beliefs that I have a problem with. Few religions are scrupulously "clean" of those impacts, but some are desperately trying to drag themselves into the 21st Century. |
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"As someone who grew up as a fundamentalist Muslim in a fundamentalist Muslim community, I think all this lecturing doesn't really help. A lot of Muslims believe in the religion as it is, so it doesn't help to just tell them they're whole worldview is incorrect.
I think it's important to actually learn about the religion and be able to come to it from a point of knowledge and appreciation rather than condescension. I think also empowering people to come their own conclusions is helpful. That is, equipping people with the mindset of the scientific method and the historical-critical method
From a critical point of view, do you believe that Islam subjugates women?
I'm not Muslim nor is my interest in Islam from a feminist point of view, so I have not studied this in detail. However, in order to answer your question, we need to define Islam. Do you mean the Qur'an or the Qur'an + Hadith or a strand of Islam in general?
To answer based on what I think you define as Islam, then yes, women are subjugated. But that's not the be all and end all of Islam, and there are plenty of feminist readings of the Qur'an which redefine these ideas.
You said in your post "A lot of Muslims believe in the religion as it is, so it doesn't help to just tell them they're whole worldview is incorrect."
Bearing in mind that you agreed that Islam, in general, subjugates women and I'm sure you will also agree that Islam harshly discriminates against LGBTQ folk? Then yes, Islam needs to be told that their worldview is incorrect in these respects and is certainly not tolerated, or welcomed, by decent people."
Whether or not something should be said from a moral standpoint is different to whether saying that thing is helpful. That's my point. I obviously want there to be less bigotry in the world, but I don't think lecturing helps.
Also, Muslims aren't the only homophobes in this country. I'm sure there are plenty of Christians and non religious folk who are also homophobic |
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By *AJMLKTV/TS 17 weeks ago
Burley |
"As someone who grew up as a fundamentalist Muslim in a fundamentalist Muslim community, I think all this lecturing doesn't really help. A lot of Muslims believe in the religion as it is, so it doesn't help to just tell them they're whole worldview is incorrect.
I think it's important to actually learn about the religion and be able to come to it from a point of knowledge and appreciation rather than condescension. I think also empowering people to come their own conclusions is helpful. That is, equipping people with the mindset of the scientific method and the historical-critical method
From a critical point of view, do you believe that Islam subjugates women?
I'm not Muslim nor is my interest in Islam from a feminist point of view, so I have not studied this in detail. However, in order to answer your question, we need to define Islam. Do you mean the Qur'an or the Qur'an + Hadith or a strand of Islam in general?
To answer based on what I think you define as Islam, then yes, women are subjugated. But that's not the be all and end all of Islam, and there are plenty of feminist readings of the Qur'an which redefine these ideas.
You said in your post "A lot of Muslims believe in the religion as it is, so it doesn't help to just tell them they're whole worldview is incorrect."
Bearing in mind that you agreed that Islam, in general, subjugates women and I'm sure you will also agree that Islam harshly discriminates against LGBTQ folk? Then yes, Islam needs to be told that their worldview is incorrect in these respects and is certainly not tolerated, or welcomed, by decent people.
Whether or not something should be said from a moral standpoint is different to whether saying that thing is helpful. That's my point. I obviously want there to be less bigotry in the world, but I don't think lecturing helps.
Also, Muslims aren't the only homophobes in this country. I'm sure there are plenty of Christians and non religious folk who are also homophobic "
What you call "lecturing", I would call "educating". There's nothing wrong with education. Also, yes - there are probably many Christians and non-religious folk who are homophobic, but there are laws against discrimination and the Christian church has modernised to an extent. There are both women and homosexual vicars who have been accepted into the church. Not so in Islam. How many female Imams are there? How many are openly homosexual or trans? |
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"Happy Ramadan - I admire those of you who DO fast, it's amazing. Not because you can't eat food, but because you can't have sex either LOL
You can have sex in the dark. Just not in daylight"
So like normal? |
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"Happy Ramadan - I admire those of you who DO fast, it's amazing. Not because you can't eat food, but because you can't have sex either LOL"
Given pre marital sex isn't permitted I think those abstaining who are allowed to can probably cope in daylight hours for one month. |
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