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Is it important to vote?
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By *hagTonight OP Man 11 weeks ago
From the land of haribos. |
I think that it is very important to vote, even if one doesnt feel or want to vote for various reason.
I would say that the number 1 reason that I think it is important to vote is not to give an opposition party more chance to win. I like this saying "For the greater good".
There are also few other reasons and I will give 5 of them here:
1 Elections have consequences, every vote matters.
2 It is your right, not voting is giving up your voice.
3 It is your money.
4 Voting is an opportunity for change.
5 The community depends on you.
What is your view about and is it important to vote and do you agree with those point and would you add some to it?  |
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By *I TwoCouple 11 weeks ago
Cookstown |
"I think that it is very important to vote, even if one doesnt feel or want to vote for various reason.
I would say that the number 1 reason that I think it is important to vote is not to give an opposition party more chance to win. I like this saying "For the greater good".
There are also few other reasons and I will give 5 of them here:
1 Elections have consequences, every vote matters.
2 It is your right, not voting is giving up your voice.
3 It is your money.
4 Voting is an opportunity for change.
5 The community depends on you.
What is your view about and is it important to vote and do you agree with those point and would you add some to it? "
If you don't vote you have no right to criticise the government. |
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"I think that it is very important to vote, even if one doesnt feel or want to vote for various reason.
I would say that the number 1 reason that I think it is important to vote is not to give an opposition party more chance to win. I like this saying "For the greater good".
There are also few other reasons and I will give 5 of them here:
1 Elections have consequences, every vote matters.
2 It is your right, not voting is giving up your voice.
3 It is your money.
4 Voting is an opportunity for change.
5 The community depends on you.
What is your view about and is it important to vote and do you agree with those point and would you add some to it?
If you don't vote you have no right to criticise the government."
The local neighbourhood mp's have a surgery for treatment. |
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"I think that it is very important to vote, even if one doesnt feel or want to vote for various reason.
I would say that the number 1 reason that I think it is important to vote is not to give an opposition party more chance to win. I like this saying "For the greater good".
There are also few other reasons and I will give 5 of them here:
1 Elections have consequences, every vote matters.
2 It is your right, not voting is giving up your voice.
3 It is your money.
4 Voting is an opportunity for change.
5 The community depends on you.
What is your view about and is it important to vote and do you agree with those point and would you add some to it?
If you don't vote you have no right to criticise the government."
True. But if you don't vote, you can still criticise the system of parliamentary democracy that we have that seems to work in the interests of the highest bidders, not in the interests of the country. |
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"I think that it is very important to vote, even if one doesnt feel or want to vote for various reason.
I would say that the number 1 reason that I think it is important to vote is not to give an opposition party more chance to win. I like this saying "For the greater good".
There are also few other reasons and I will give 5 of them here:
1 Elections have consequences, every vote matters.
2 It is your right, not voting is giving up your voice.
3 It is your money.
4 Voting is an opportunity for change.
5 The community depends on you.
What is your view about and is it important to vote and do you agree with those point and would you add some to it? "
Australia has compulsory voting. It changes things radically. The politicians do not focus on getting people to the polling stations with emotive issues (which is the case in the US and UK), that is a given. They need to speak to all voters and convince them, once they are at the polling station, to vote for them. |
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"I think that it is very important to vote, even if one doesnt feel or want to vote for various reason.
I would say that the number 1 reason that I think it is important to vote is not to give an opposition party more chance to win. I like this saying "For the greater good".
There are also few other reasons and I will give 5 of them here:
1 Elections have consequences, every vote matters.
2 It is your right, not voting is giving up your voice.
3 It is your money.
4 Voting is an opportunity for change.
5 The community depends on you.
What is your view about and is it important to vote and do you agree with those point and would you add some to it?
If you don't vote you have no right to criticise the government."
if you do vote its all on you for watever shit show follows |
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"I think that it is very important to vote, even if one doesnt feel or want to vote for various reason.
I would say that the number 1 reason that I think it is important to vote is not to give an opposition party more chance to win. I like this saying "For the greater good".
There are also few other reasons and I will give 5 of them here:
1 Elections have consequences, every vote matters.
2 It is your right, not voting is giving up your voice.
3 It is your money.
4 Voting is an opportunity for change.
5 The community depends on you.
What is your view about and is it important to vote and do you agree with those point and would you add some to it? "
One party will sodomise you doggy style and the other party will sodomise you sideways position.
Is it important to vote what position you get sodomised? |
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"I think that it is very important to vote, even if one doesnt feel or want to vote for various reason.
I would say that the number 1 reason that I think it is important to vote is not to give an opposition party more chance to win. I like this saying "For the greater good".
There are also few other reasons and I will give 5 of them here:
1 Elections have consequences, every vote matters.
2 It is your right, not voting is giving up your voice.
3 It is your money.
4 Voting is an opportunity for change.
5 The community depends on you.
What is your view about and is it important to vote and do you agree with those point and would you add some to it?
One party will sodomise you doggy style and the other party will sodomise you sideways position.
Is it important to vote what position you get sodomised? "
Voting in this case is nothing more than giving consent. |
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"I think that it is very important to vote, even if one doesnt feel or want to vote for various reason.
I would say that the number 1 reason that I think it is important to vote is not to give an opposition party more chance to win. I like this saying "For the greater good".
There are also few other reasons and I will give 5 of them here:
1 Elections have consequences, every vote matters.
2 It is your right, not voting is giving up your voice.
3 It is your money.
4 Voting is an opportunity for change.
5 The community depends on you.
What is your view about and is it important to vote and do you agree with those point and would you add some to it?
If you don't vote you have no right to criticise the government.if you do vote its all on you for watever shit show follows"
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"I think that it is very important to vote, even if one doesnt feel or want to vote for various reason.
I would say that the number 1 reason that I think it is important to vote is not to give an opposition party more chance to win. I like this saying "For the greater good".
There are also few other reasons and I will give 5 of them here:
1 Elections have consequences, every vote matters.
2 It is your right, not voting is giving up your voice.
3 It is your money.
4 Voting is an opportunity for change.
5 The community depends on you.
What is your view about and is it important to vote and do you agree with those point and would you add some to it? "
Spot on.
.
Voter apathy and disillusionment only helps the existing oppressor maintain their power. It doesn't make your government fear you. It makes them take you for granted.
.
In essence, it puts you in a submissive Victim position, with an Abuser Government with a Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
.
Apathy IS Submission. |
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Originally only landowners could vote, so the wealthy decided for the rest of us. People then died so that firstly all men could vote, and then later women. For those sacrifices alone you should vote.
If you don’t like anybody then vote for more than one candidate or write “I don’t like anyone”. It is then spoilt but it is still counted. Only by actively increasing spoilt papers can we show our dissatisfaction with the candidates.
If you don’t vote then you can’t complain about who you get, as you abdicated decision making ??. |
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"Originally only landowners could vote, so the wealthy decided for the rest of us. People then died so that firstly all men could vote, and then later women. For those sacrifices alone you should vote."
That's a crap reason. Because one of my ancestors 185 years ago might have died for the right to vote, I now have to vote in order to honour them. Rubbish.
The rest of your post though is spot on. |
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"I think that it is very important to vote, even if one doesnt feel or want to vote for various reason.
I would say that the number 1 reason that I think it is important to vote is not to give an opposition party more chance to win. I like this saying "For the greater good".
There are also few other reasons and I will give 5 of them here:
1 Elections have consequences, every vote matters.
2 It is your right, not voting is giving up your voice.
3 It is your money.
4 Voting is an opportunity for change.
5 The community depends on you.
What is your view about and is it important to vote and do you agree with those point and would you add some to it? "
I much prefer to vote though I'm a bit stuck for the next GE. On point 2, it is your right to vote but that does not mean you have to take up that right. It's supposed to be a free choice to vote, not mandatory. If it became mandatory, surely some form of ID would be required, which some say (not myself) that it puts off the poorest in society. |
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"I think that it is very important to vote, even if one doesnt feel or want to vote for various reason.
I would say that the number 1 reason that I think it is important to vote is not to give an opposition party more chance to win. I like this saying "For the greater good".
There are also few other reasons and I will give 5 of them here:
1 Elections have consequences, every vote matters.
2 It is your right, not voting is giving up your voice.
3 It is your money.
4 Voting is an opportunity for change.
5 The community depends on you.
What is your view about and is it important to vote and do you agree with those point and would you add some to it?
I much prefer to vote though I'm a bit stuck for the next GE. On point 2, it is your right to vote but that does not mean you have to take up that right. It's supposed to be a free choice to vote, not mandatory. If it became mandatory, surely some form of ID would be required, which some say (not myself) that it puts off the poorest in society."
Actually, the opposite is true. If it's mandatory, then everyone must register and turn out with ID, or get fined. The poorest absolutely turn out in Australia. It removes this nonsense about disenfranchisement of the poorest. EVERYONE votes. To an Australian, these arguments about turning off the vulnerable through ID make no sense. |
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"I think that it is very important to vote, even if one doesnt feel or want to vote for various reason.
I would say that the number 1 reason that I think it is important to vote is not to give an opposition party more chance to win. I like this saying "For the greater good".
There are also few other reasons and I will give 5 of them here:
1 Elections have consequences, every vote matters.
2 It is your right, not voting is giving up your voice.
3 It is your money.
4 Voting is an opportunity for change.
5 The community depends on you.
What is your view about and is it important to vote and do you agree with those point and would you add some to it?
I much prefer to vote though I'm a bit stuck for the next GE. On point 2, it is your right to vote but that does not mean you have to take up that right. It's supposed to be a free choice to vote, not mandatory. If it became mandatory, surely some form of ID would be required, which some say (not myself) that it puts off the poorest in society.
Actually, the opposite is true. If it's mandatory, then everyone must register and turn out with ID, or get fined. The poorest absolutely turn out in Australia. It removes this nonsense about disenfranchisement of the poorest. EVERYONE votes. To an Australian, these arguments about turning off the vulnerable through ID make no sense."
That argument makes no sense in this country either (free ID is offered), that doesn't stop people arguing it affects vulnerables. |
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"Originally only landowners could vote, so the wealthy decided for the rest of us. People then died so that firstly all men could vote, and then later women. For those sacrifices alone you should vote.
That's a crap reason. Because one of my ancestors 185 years ago might have died for the right to vote, I now have to vote in order to honour them. Rubbish.
The rest of your post though is spot on."
The great thing about democracy is free speech, so you don’t need to agree with my view as you don't, but I absolutely defend your right to say it. It is my view democracies are difficult to create but very easy to sacrifice, and we wouldn’t necessarily have it but for some brave people in the past eg Navalny is current example, he never needed to go back to Russia, but he did, and was a thorn in the side of autocracy. That is a sacrifice to try to create democracy,, which benefits all. What is great in the UK is our political elite screw up with so much frequency they get replaced just by their own stupidity. |
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By (user no longer on site) 10 weeks ago
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"I think that it is very important to vote, even if one doesnt feel or want to vote for various reason.
I would say that the number 1 reason that I think it is important to vote is not to give an opposition party more chance to win. I like this saying "For the greater good".
There are also few other reasons and I will give 5 of them here:
1 Elections have consequences, every vote matters.
2 It is your right, not voting is giving up your voice.
3 It is your money.
4 Voting is an opportunity for change.
5 The community depends on you.
What is your view about and is it important to vote and do you agree with those point and would you add some to it?
I much prefer to vote though I'm a bit stuck for the next GE. On point 2, it is your right to vote but that does not mean you have to take up that right. It's supposed to be a free choice to vote, not mandatory. If it became mandatory, surely some form of ID would be required, which some say (not myself) that it puts off the poorest in society.
Actually, the opposite is true. If it's mandatory, then everyone must register and turn out with ID, or get fined. The poorest absolutely turn out in Australia. It removes this nonsense about disenfranchisement of the poorest. EVERYONE votes. To an Australian, these arguments about turning off the vulnerable through ID make no sense.
That argument makes no sense in this country either (free ID is offered), that doesn't stop people arguing it affects vulnerables."
I mean, there’s actual data to back the claim up, as you know. It’s been shared on here. |
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"I think that it is very important to vote, even if one doesnt feel or want to vote for various reason.
I would say that the number 1 reason that I think it is important to vote is not to give an opposition party more chance to win. I like this saying "For the greater good".
There are also few other reasons and I will give 5 of them here:
1 Elections have consequences, every vote matters.
2 It is your right, not voting is giving up your voice.
3 It is your money.
4 Voting is an opportunity for change.
5 The community depends on you.
What is your view about and is it important to vote and do you agree with those point and would you add some to it?
I much prefer to vote though I'm a bit stuck for the next GE. On point 2, it is your right to vote but that does not mean you have to take up that right. It's supposed to be a free choice to vote, not mandatory. If it became mandatory, surely some form of ID would be required, which some say (not myself) that it puts off the poorest in society.
Actually, the opposite is true. If it's mandatory, then everyone must register and turn out with ID, or get fined. The poorest absolutely turn out in Australia. It removes this nonsense about disenfranchisement of the poorest. EVERYONE votes. To an Australian, these arguments about turning off the vulnerable through ID make no sense.
That argument makes no sense in this country either (free ID is offered), that doesn't stop people arguing it affects vulnerables.
I mean, there’s actual data to back the claim up, as you know. It’s been shared on here."
There's data to back up that people had their eyes and ears closed, yeah.
It was no secret, that can't be argued. |
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"I think that it is very important to vote, even if one doesnt feel or want to vote for various reason.
I would say that the number 1 reason that I think it is important to vote is not to give an opposition party more chance to win. I like this saying "For the greater good".
There are also few other reasons and I will give 5 of them here:
1 Elections have consequences, every vote matters.
2 It is your right, not voting is giving up your voice.
3 It is your money.
4 Voting is an opportunity for change.
5 The community depends on you.
What is your view about and is it important to vote and do you agree with those point and would you add some to it?
If you don't vote you have no right to criticise the government."
I agree |
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"
Actually, the opposite is true. If it's mandatory, then everyone must register and turn out with ID, or get fined. The poorest absolutely turn out in Australia. It removes this nonsense about disenfranchisement of the poorest. EVERYONE votes. To an Australian, these arguments about turning off the vulnerable through ID make no sense.
That argument makes no sense in this country either (free ID is offered), that doesn't stop people arguing it affects vulnerables.
I mean, there’s actual data to back the claim up, as you know. It’s been shared on here."
https://peo.gov.au/understand-our-parliament/your-questions-on-notice/questions/how-many-people-voted-in-the-last-election
This is actual data from a country with comparable demographics who actually does it. Not some study about what might happen "if".
The powers that be are just too afraid of what would happen if a 90%+ turnout was guaranteed. The messaging would need to change immensely. Suddenly, it wouldn't be mostly pensioners holding the power. |
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By (user no longer on site) 10 weeks ago
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"
Actually, the opposite is true. If it's mandatory, then everyone must register and turn out with ID, or get fined. The poorest absolutely turn out in Australia. It removes this nonsense about disenfranchisement of the poorest. EVERYONE votes. To an Australian, these arguments about turning off the vulnerable through ID make no sense.
That argument makes no sense in this country either (free ID is offered), that doesn't stop people arguing it affects vulnerables.
I mean, there’s actual data to back the claim up, as you know. It’s been shared on here.
https://peo.gov.au/understand-our-parliament/your-questions-on-notice/questions/how-many-people-voted-in-the-last-election
This is actual data from a country with comparable demographics who actually does it. Not some study about what might happen "if".
The powers that be are just too afraid of what would happen if a 90%+ turnout was guaranteed. The messaging would need to change immensely. Suddenly, it wouldn't be mostly pensioners holding the power."
The data I referred to was not ‘if’ - it was data from since we’ve required ID to vote. It disenfranchised some voters, and impacted poor and minorities most. |
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"
The data I referred to was not ‘if’ - it was data from since we’ve required ID to vote. It disenfranchised some voters, and impacted poor and minorities most. "
It should exist alongside compulsory voting was the point.
To add, there's little sympathy here for those who can't be arsed to get ID or register for a postal vote. It's a right that can should be exercised. |
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I think it's important to vote, even if it's to spoil your paper. It helps show that the current parties are not meeting standards or needs.
My issue is that FPTP doesn't really change party behaviours. Even if 10pc of people said "none of the above" there's probably little incentive for a party to try and engage these. And no incentive for a new party to try and understand it. End of the day, it's blue v reds.
I've wondered what the Brexit vote would have look likes under compulsory voting and a "don't care" option.
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By (user no longer on site) 10 weeks ago
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"I think it's important to vote, even if it's to spoil your paper. It helps show that the current parties are not meeting standards or needs.
My issue is that FPTP doesn't really change party behaviours. Even if 10pc of people said "none of the above" there's probably little incentive for a party to try and engage these. And no incentive for a new party to try and understand it. End of the day, it's blue v reds.
I've wondered what the Brexit vote would have look likes under compulsory voting and a "don't care" option.
"
The Brexit vote should have come with a ‘don’t understand’ option rather than ‘don’t care’  |
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"
Actually, the opposite is true. If it's mandatory, then everyone must register and turn out with ID, or get fined. "
Correction.
Australians must answer name, address and "have you voted already". |
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"That argument makes no sense in this country either (free ID is offered), that doesn't stop people arguing it affects vulnerables."
"I mean, there’s actual data to back the claim up, as you know. It’s been shared on here."
I'd like to see that data. Can you tell me where I can find it. |
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By (user no longer on site) 10 weeks ago
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"That argument makes no sense in this country either (free ID is offered), that doesn't stop people arguing it affects vulnerables.
I mean, there’s actual data to back the claim up, as you know. It’s been shared on here.
I'd like to see that data. Can you tell me where I can find it."
It was an electoral commission report, can’t remember what thread I posted it in. Should be an easy enough find. ‘Impact of voter ID in U.K.’ or something like that. |
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"I think that it is very important to vote, even if one doesnt feel or want to vote for various reason.
I would say that the number 1 reason that I think it is important to vote is not to give an opposition party more chance to win. I like this saying "For the greater good".
There are also few other reasons and I will give 5 of them here:
1 Elections have consequences, every vote matters.
2 It is your right, not voting is giving up your voice.
3 It is your money.
4 Voting is an opportunity for change.
5 The community depends on you.
What is your view about and is it important to vote and do you agree with those point and would you add some to it? "
Some do find it hard to VOTE I DO 16 HOUR days when in UK so the polling station is closed when I go to work and closed when I get home. Some times I'm over sea so almost in posable.
So I chose postal VOTING but if I'm out the county when it arrives then I miss that as well.
So we all have a right to vote but it's not easy for all.
On how to vote for I'd like to see a hung parliament with Labour in front, Lib coalition to keep them in cheque. |
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"I think that it is very important to vote, even if one doesnt feel or want to vote for various reason.
I would say that the number 1 reason that I think it is important to vote is not to give an opposition party more chance to win. I like this saying "For the greater good".
There are also few other reasons and I will give 5 of them here:
1 Elections have consequences, every vote matters.
2 It is your right, not voting is giving up your voice.
3 It is your money.
4 Voting is an opportunity for change.
5 The community depends on you.
What is your view about and is it important to vote and do you agree with those point and would you add some to it?
Spot on.
.
Voter apathy and disillusionment only helps the existing oppressor maintain their power. It doesn't make your government fear you. It makes them take you for granted.
.
In essence, it puts you in a submissive Victim position, with an Abuser Government with a Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
.
Apathy IS Submission."
What i get from that is political parties are oppressive and need removing, I totally agree with that but it is the vote that puts the next oppressor into office of government, it goes around in circles along with the mental torture. |
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Don't vote, don't see the point as my life won't be affected by whoever which party is in power.
Those that say spoil your paper etc ... I really can't be arsed to walk out my way, better things to do |
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"What i get from that is political parties are oppressive and need removing, I totally agree with that but it is the vote that puts the next oppressor into office of government, it goes around in circles along with the mental torture."
Yes, the vote does put the next oppressing government in to power.
.
But oppression isn't the same for all governments in the same way 2 chefs can make vastly different omelettes.
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And of course, there are more than 2 chefs.
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But sometimes change is as good a rest too, and all governments run out of steam. All need to spend some time "in the wilderness", reflecting on their decisions that got them there, and this is your best chance to change the narrative.
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Whilst the next government's narrative might be the same (same policies, different suits and ties), the change enacted by voting will make the outgoing government look at their faults and aim to do better next time.
.
People don't change, until you make it untenable for them to continue in the way they did, then they have to change.
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Voting IS the lever. |
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"I think that it is very important to vote, even if one doesnt feel or want to vote for various reason.
I would say that the number 1 reason that I think it is important to vote is not to give an opposition party more chance to win. I like this saying "For the greater good".
There are also few other reasons and I will give 5 of them here:
1 Elections have consequences, every vote matters.
2 It is your right, not voting is giving up your voice.
3 It is your money.
4 Voting is an opportunity for change.
5 The community depends on you.
What is your view about and is it important to vote and do you agree with those point and would you add some to it?
I much prefer to vote though I'm a bit stuck for the next GE. On point 2, it is your right to vote but that does not mean you have to take up that right. It's supposed to be a free choice to vote, not mandatory. If it became mandatory, surely some form of ID would be required, which some say (not myself) that it puts off the poorest in society.
Actually, the opposite is true. If it's mandatory, then everyone must register and turn out with ID, or get fined. The poorest absolutely turn out in Australia. It removes this nonsense about disenfranchisement of the poorest. EVERYONE votes. To an Australian, these arguments about turning off the vulnerable through ID make no sense."
So if those that say having ID to vote negatively affects the poorest are correct then this law would force them to be negatively affected and possibly fined too. I don't have a problem with ID myself but some are not so keen. |
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Voting for a party you don't strongly support just allows them to hide behind there "people mandate" and gives them the belief that they can do whatever they want.
I would prefer a lower turn out so there's always a fear factor and a bit of thinking before they rush through policies.
Democracy hasn't been for the people for many years in any western country regardless of our turnout and our first past the post system skews the popularity of the ruling party even further.
I dont vote unless i felt strongly for a candidate as i don't think there's much change whatever ypu vote.
Whatever the colour of their tie its still the same person towing the party(so the donors) line, and also in it fpr there own self interest. |
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By *irldnCouple 10 weeks ago
Brighton |
I don’t agree with the sentiment “if you don’t vote you shouldn’t criticise the govt” because not voting is sending a message in itself. ie apathetic or do not believe anyone represents you.
However, personally I would support mandatory voting as per Australia as long as the ballot paper had a “none of the above” choice.
Regarding the discussion on whether voter ID disproportionately disenfranchises the poor…call me cynical but this was precisely the reason the Tories wanted it. It is all about nudge theory working in reverse.
Now of course there had to be ways to get ID so it didn’t look like deliberate disenfranchisement, but what it creates is another barrier for a group who already tend to vote less. Even adding in simple additional steps is sufficient to cause those unlikely to bother to really not bother.
All of us posting in the politics forum think politics matters. We are a tiny fragment of the Fab community. Of course some/many/most probably don’t want to discuss serious topics on a swinger website, so fair play to them. But I also think it reflects that politics matters far less to most people than it does to the regulars in here! |
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"What i get from that is political parties are oppressive and need removing, I totally agree with that but it is the vote that puts the next oppressor into office of government, it goes around in circles along with the mental torture.
Yes, the vote does put the next oppressing government in to power.
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But oppression isn't the same for all governments in the same way 2 chefs can make vastly different omelettes.
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And of course, there are more than 2 chefs.
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But sometimes change is as good a rest too, and all governments run out of steam. All need to spend some time "in the wilderness", reflecting on their decisions that got them there, and this is your best chance to change the narrative.
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Whilst the next government's narrative might be the same (same policies, different suits and ties), the change enacted by voting will make the outgoing government look at their faults and aim to do better next time.
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People don't change, until you make it untenable for them to continue in the way they did, then they have to change.
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Voting IS the lever."
All governments are not the same but this oppression you are sensing is not oppression it might be anarcho tyranny.
dysfunctional government hopeless at coping with large matters but ruthlessly tyrannical in the enforcement of small ones, preach in the street, miss gender someone, teach a dog to salute, write a poem you will be treated to and feel the full weight of the law, but people who should be incarcerated for breaking the actual law are given leniency not convicted or the parole board can't wait to set them free the recent acid attacker is a prime example.
No thank you is my response when they come knocking to ask if I want more of it or a different version.
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By *hirleyMan 10 weeks ago
somewhere |
IMHO, controversially too, I think that unless you have been in work (part time and voluntary etc included) or study within the last 4 years, you shouldn't get a vote.
I know that is radical and upsetting to disregard retirees etc. But I don't see how people that don't actively contribute to society can have a say on who the policymakers are, it is a conflict of interest.
You might see that as cold but it's not. Currently, it's almost like going to a restaurant for the first time but you have no choice as the proprietor decides what you eat and how much you pay, based off who the other customers that have been going for years are. |
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By (user no longer on site) 10 weeks ago
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"IMHO, controversially too, I think that unless you have been in work (part time and voluntary etc included) or study within the last 4 years, you shouldn't get a vote.
I know that is radical and upsetting to disregard retirees etc. But I don't see how people that don't actively contribute to society can have a say on who the policymakers are, it is a conflict of interest.
You might see that as cold but it's not. Currently, it's almost like going to a restaurant for the first time but you have no choice as the proprietor decides what you eat and how much you pay, based off who the other customers that have been going for years are."
If we base voting on contributions to society (either through taxation or other means) then there’s an argument for voting at 16. |
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By *otMe66Man 10 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"IMHO, controversially too, I think that unless you have been in work (part time and voluntary etc included) or study within the last 4 years, you shouldn't get a vote.
I know that is radical and upsetting to disregard retirees etc. But I don't see how people that don't actively contribute to society can have a say on who the policymakers are, it is a conflict of interest.
You might see that as cold but it's not. Currently, it's almost like going to a restaurant for the first time but you have no choice as the proprietor decides what you eat and how much you pay, based off who the other customers that have been going for years are.
If we base voting on contributions to society (either through taxation or other means) then there’s an argument for voting at 16. "
It would be a terrible idea to allow 16 year olds to vote.
I think it could be a good idea to allow them to register what they would have voted, but not allowing a real vote, no. |
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"I don’t agree with the sentiment “if you don’t vote you shouldn’t criticise the govt” because not voting is sending a message in itself. ie apathetic or do not believe anyone represents you.
However, personally I would support mandatory voting as per Australia as long as the ballot paper had a “none of the above” choice.
Regarding the discussion on whether voter ID disproportionately disenfranchises the poor…call me cynical but this was precisely the reason the Tories wanted it. It is all about nudge theory working in reverse.
Now of course there had to be ways to get ID so it didn’t look like deliberate disenfranchisement, but what it creates is another barrier for a group who already tend to vote less. Even adding in simple additional steps is sufficient to cause those unlikely to bother to really not bother.
All of us posting in the politics forum think politics matters. We are a tiny fragment of the Fab community. Of course some/many/most probably don’t want to discuss serious topics on a swinger website, so fair play to them. But I also think it reflects that politics matters far less to most people than it does to the regulars in here!"
I would also support mandatory voting but with proportional representation.
And a more flexible voting system as I sometimes find it hard to vote due to working our of UK. |
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By (user no longer on site) 10 weeks ago
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"IMHO, controversially too, I think that unless you have been in work (part time and voluntary etc included) or study within the last 4 years, you shouldn't get a vote.
I know that is radical and upsetting to disregard retirees etc. But I don't see how people that don't actively contribute to society can have a say on who the policymakers are, it is a conflict of interest.
You might see that as cold but it's not. Currently, it's almost like going to a restaurant for the first time but you have no choice as the proprietor decides what you eat and how much you pay, based off who the other customers that have been going for years are.
If we base voting on contributions to society (either through taxation or other means) then there’s an argument for voting at 16.
It would be a terrible idea to allow 16 year olds to vote.
I think it could be a good idea to allow them to register what they would have voted, but not allowing a real vote, no."
No taxation without representation?
Ultimately the future belongs to the youth more than it does the elderly, but we wouldn’t dream of having an upper limit voting age.
16 has always felt fair to me, but we have to have a cutoff somewhere.
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By *otMe66Man 10 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"IMHO, controversially too, I think that unless you have been in work (part time and voluntary etc included) or study within the last 4 years, you shouldn't get a vote.
I know that is radical and upsetting to disregard retirees etc. But I don't see how people that don't actively contribute to society can have a say on who the policymakers are, it is a conflict of interest.
You might see that as cold but it's not. Currently, it's almost like going to a restaurant for the first time but you have no choice as the proprietor decides what you eat and how much you pay, based off who the other customers that have been going for years are.
If we base voting on contributions to society (either through taxation or other means) then there’s an argument for voting at 16.
It would be a terrible idea to allow 16 year olds to vote.
I think it could be a good idea to allow them to register what they would have voted, but not allowing a real vote, no.
No taxation without representation?
Ultimately the future belongs to the youth more than it does the elderly, but we wouldn’t dream of having an upper limit voting age.
16 has always felt fair to me, but we have to have a cutoff somewhere.
"
Too easily led to be making decisions that could have far reaching implications for the next 5 years.
Obviously there will be 16 year old outliers, but no... |
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By (user no longer on site) 10 weeks ago
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"IMHO, controversially too, I think that unless you have been in work (part time and voluntary etc included) or study within the last 4 years, you shouldn't get a vote.
I know that is radical and upsetting to disregard retirees etc. But I don't see how people that don't actively contribute to society can have a say on who the policymakers are, it is a conflict of interest.
You might see that as cold but it's not. Currently, it's almost like going to a restaurant for the first time but you have no choice as the proprietor decides what you eat and how much you pay, based off who the other customers that have been going for years are.
If we base voting on contributions to society (either through taxation or other means) then there’s an argument for voting at 16.
It would be a terrible idea to allow 16 year olds to vote.
I think it could be a good idea to allow them to register what they would have voted, but not allowing a real vote, no.
No taxation without representation?
Ultimately the future belongs to the youth more than it does the elderly, but we wouldn’t dream of having an upper limit voting age.
16 has always felt fair to me, but we have to have a cutoff somewhere.
Too easily led to be making decisions that could have far reaching implications for the next 5 years.
Obviously there will be 16 year old outliers, but no..."
That’s one argument, absolutely. Equally we could argue that a lot of elderly are too out of touch, set in their ways and oblivious to be making far reaching decisions for the next 5 years. There would be outliers, but…..
(The moral? The perfect voting system doesn’t exist) |
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By (user no longer on site) 10 weeks ago
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Incidentally, voting is allowed at 16 in Scotland and Wales for MSP and Welsh Parliament, and it’s been a massive success - with no desire to remove the vote.
It would be worth trialling in local elections in England - but we are pretty backwards thinking here. |
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"Incidentally, voting is allowed at 16 in Scotland and Wales for MSP and Welsh Parliament, and it’s been a massive success - with no desire to remove the vote.
It would be worth trialling in local elections in England - but we are pretty backwards thinking here."
Success by which measure? |
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By (user no longer on site) 10 weeks ago
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"Incidentally, voting is allowed at 16 in Scotland and Wales for MSP and Welsh Parliament, and it’s been a massive success - with no desire to remove the vote.
It would be worth trialling in local elections in England - but we are pretty backwards thinking here.
Success by which measure?"
By the fact that nobody wants to repeal it (indeed those against it in 2014 are now fully supportive) and the initial results from Scotland appear to suggest that starting voters at 16 leads to more chance of them remaining voters in subsequent elections.
“Typically, electoral data shows that turnout is low when voters are in the early years of adulthood, and increases in their mid to late twenties. But 16- and 17-year-olds, when enfranchised, tend to vote in greater numbers than 18- to 24-year-olds. This was the case in Scotland in 2014-15 (when the voting age was lowered). Now we know that this habit has lasted.
We looked at the 2021 election data for the cohorts of voters who were first enfranchised at age 16. Indeed, they continued to turn out in higher numbers, even into their twenties, than young people who attained the right to vote later, at age 18”
https://theconversation.com/scottish-elections-young-people-more-likely-to-vote-if-they-started-at-16-new-study-197823
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"Incidentally, voting is allowed at 16 in Scotland and Wales for MSP and Welsh Parliament, and it’s been a massive success - with no desire to remove the vote.
It would be worth trialling in local elections in England - but we are pretty backwards thinking here.
Success by which measure?
By the fact that nobody wants to repeal it (indeed those against it in 2014 are now fully supportive) and the initial results from Scotland appear to suggest that starting voters at 16 leads to more chance of them remaining voters in subsequent elections.
“Typically, electoral data shows that turnout is low when voters are in the early years of adulthood, and increases in their mid to late twenties. But 16- and 17-year-olds, when enfranchised, tend to vote in greater numbers than 18- to 24-year-olds. This was the case in Scotland in 2014-15 (when the voting age was lowered). Now we know that this habit has lasted.
We looked at the 2021 election data for the cohorts of voters who were first enfranchised at age 16. Indeed, they continued to turn out in higher numbers, even into their twenties, than young people who attained the right to vote later, at age 18”
https://theconversation.com/scottish-elections-young-people-more-likely-to-vote-if-they-started-at-16-new-study-197823
"
I can't argue with the data.
However, personally I don't feel most 16 year olds would even understand what they're voting for.
I say this as someone with a 19 year old daughter who studied politics A-level and now studies law at University. |
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By (user no longer on site) 10 weeks ago
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"Incidentally, voting is allowed at 16 in Scotland and Wales for MSP and Welsh Parliament, and it’s been a massive success - with no desire to remove the vote.
It would be worth trialling in local elections in England - but we are pretty backwards thinking here.
Success by which measure?
By the fact that nobody wants to repeal it (indeed those against it in 2014 are now fully supportive) and the initial results from Scotland appear to suggest that starting voters at 16 leads to more chance of them remaining voters in subsequent elections.
“Typically, electoral data shows that turnout is low when voters are in the early years of adulthood, and increases in their mid to late twenties. But 16- and 17-year-olds, when enfranchised, tend to vote in greater numbers than 18- to 24-year-olds. This was the case in Scotland in 2014-15 (when the voting age was lowered). Now we know that this habit has lasted.
We looked at the 2021 election data for the cohorts of voters who were first enfranchised at age 16. Indeed, they continued to turn out in higher numbers, even into their twenties, than young people who attained the right to vote later, at age 18”
https://theconversation.com/scottish-elections-young-people-more-likely-to-vote-if-they-started-at-16-new-study-197823
I can't argue with the data.
However, personally I don't feel most 16 year olds would even understand what they're voting for.
I say this as someone with a 19 year old daughter who studied politics A-level and now studies law at University. "
Yeah it’s hard to gauge because some are astute as fuck, and others can’t envisage a world beyond Fortnight.
I was brought up in a political family, grandad was leader of the council so every Sunday was full of politics talk at the dinner table - Scargill, Thatcher, Dennis Skinner et al. Granddad was on first name terms with Scargill, and introduced me to a few MP’s and councellers in the area before I was even in senior school. I’d have been perfectly comfortable voting at 16 but I was definitely an outlier. |
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"IMHO, controversially too, I think that unless you have been in work (part time and voluntary etc included) or study within the last 4 years, you shouldn't get a vote.
I know that is radical and upsetting to disregard retirees etc. But I don't see how people that don't actively contribute to society can have a say on who the policymakers are, it is a conflict of interest.
You might see that as cold but it's not. Currently, it's almost like going to a restaurant for the first time but you have no choice as the proprietor decides what you eat and how much you pay, based off who the other customers that have been going for years are.
If we base voting on contributions to society (either through taxation or other means) then there’s an argument for voting at 16.
It would be a terrible idea to allow 16 year olds to vote.
I think it could be a good idea to allow them to register what they would have voted, but not allowing a real vote, no.
No taxation without representation?
Ultimately the future belongs to the youth more than it does the elderly, but we wouldn’t dream of having an upper limit voting age.
16 has always felt fair to me, but we have to have a cutoff somewhere.
Too easily led to be making decisions that could have far reaching implications for the next 5 years.
Obviously there will be 16 year old outliers, but no..."
This is more complex than it looks some 16 year old are more ingaged in politics than some older people.
Do teans study politics at school as part of general education and if not why not as all will be able to vote one day..
I like schools that have a head person how is voted in as it give a real taste of what voting is. |
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"Incidentally, voting is allowed at 16 in Scotland and Wales for MSP and Welsh Parliament, and it’s been a massive success - with no desire to remove the vote.
It would be worth trialling in local elections in England - but we are pretty backwards thinking here.
Success by which measure?
By the fact that nobody wants to repeal it (indeed those against it in 2014 are now fully supportive) and the initial results from Scotland appear to suggest that starting voters at 16 leads to more chance of them remaining voters in subsequent elections.
“Typically, electoral data shows that turnout is low when voters are in the early years of adulthood, and increases in their mid to late twenties. But 16- and 17-year-olds, when enfranchised, tend to vote in greater numbers than 18- to 24-year-olds. This was the case in Scotland in 2014-15 (when the voting age was lowered). Now we know that this habit has lasted.
We looked at the 2021 election data for the cohorts of voters who were first enfranchised at age 16. Indeed, they continued to turn out in higher numbers, even into their twenties, than young people who attained the right to vote later, at age 18”
https://theconversation.com/scottish-elections-young-people-more-likely-to-vote-if-they-started-at-16-new-study-197823
I can't argue with the data.
However, personally I don't feel most 16 year olds would even understand what they're voting for.
I say this as someone with a 19 year old daughter who studied politics A-level and now studies law at University.
Yeah it’s hard to gauge because some are astute as fuck, and others can’t envisage a world beyond Fortnight.
I was brought up in a political family, grandad was leader of the council so every Sunday was full of politics talk at the dinner table - Scargill, Thatcher, Dennis Skinner et al. Granddad was on first name terms with Scargill, and introduced me to a few MP’s and councellers in the area before I was even in senior school. I’d have been perfectly comfortable voting at 16 but I was definitely an outlier."
Your last sentence there is the reason I don't believe 16 year old so be able to vote. You were an outlier, whilst there will be others like you, I doubt many. |
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