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Who here thinks great Britain is perfect
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"I suppose it depends what you're saying OP." Recently having trouble with private car parking firm wanting now nearly 1000 pounds and when I say about it some big heads tell me to go back to my or another country because I insult the DVLA | |||
"I suppose it depends what you're saying OP. Recently having trouble with private car parking firm wanting now nearly 1000 pounds and when I say about it some big heads tell me to go back to my or another country because I insult the DVLA " I'm sure they have added vat at 20% to that grand so it's only 800, tell them you only deal in diamonds and pearls. Then they will ask if you are a clutcher, then you respond with yes I am, then they may let you off.  | |||
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"Britain is far from perfect, and has been getting progressively worse for decades now. There is only one way that it will ever get better is in 2029 when Reform UK take power. Best of luck to you." Interested to hear what you know as undeniable that reform UK plc are going to do to make the UK better? | |||
"Britain is far from perfect, and has been getting progressively worse for decades now. There is only one way that it will ever get better is in 2029 when Reform UK take power. Best of luck to you. Interested to hear what you know as undeniable that reform UK plc are going to do to make the UK better?" Well they can't do any worse. The UK was going seriously down hill 21 years ago when I left. On my now rare visits back I only see more and more decline. | |||
"Britain is far from perfect, and has been getting progressively worse for decades now. There is only one way that it will ever get better is in 2029 when Reform UK take power. Best of luck to you. Interested to hear what you know as undeniable that reform UK plc are going to do to make the UK better? Well they can't do any worse. The UK was going seriously down hill 21 years ago when I left. On my now rare visits back I only see more and more decline." You think the UK can't get worse? What was wrong with the UK 21 years ago? Is their some things specific you can say? Only because I want to know what you class as "decline" because it could be different. | |||
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"Britain is far from perfect, and has been getting progressively worse for decades now. There is only one way that it will ever get better is in 2029 when Reform UK take power. Best of luck to you. Interested to hear what you know as undeniable that reform UK plc are going to do to make the UK better? Well they can't do any worse. The UK was going seriously down hill 21 years ago when I left. On my now rare visits back I only see more and more decline. You think the UK can't get worse? What was wrong with the UK 21 years ago? Is their some things specific you can say? Only because I want to know what you class as "decline" because it could be different. " Oh the UK can get a lot worse, what I said was "they" (Reform) can't do any worse. I see where you are trying to go with this. To be fair, when I look back now it didn't look that bad 21 years ago but the seeds of decline were there. Britain was at the fag end of the Blair/Brown government but at the time it looked likely that they were going to get re-elected. I'd had enough of Labour then and while I (wrongly) had high hopes for Cameron I just couldn't see him winning. Anyone who can't see the decline in the last 21 years must be either blind or so insulated not to notice. I remember my last visit to the UK when I sat down for a coffee in the centre of my old home town. Even though it was February I sat outside because, horror of horrors, I still like a ciggie. After a while I began to wonder where I was. The set of One Flew Over The Cuckoo's nest? The bar room scene in Star Wars? Some Dystopian Mad Maxesque world of the future? Could have been any or all of them. Some of the outfits made your average circus clown look sober and conservative, women who hadn't even bothered to get dressed at all wandering around the town centre wearing pyjamas and dressing gowns. You may not have standards but I still have. There was even one guy walking up and down shouting at lamp posts. Mental 'elf ishoos or just high as a kite? Probably a third of the shops were boarded up and most of the rest were betting shops, vape stores or Turkish barbers with no customers. Things that I didn't see but know only too well like the growth in knife crime, ch*ldren killing ch*ldren, rampant dr*g use with the accompanying gang warfare. Young girls being targeted by Asian grooming gangs. The list could go on. All that is before we get onto the politics. Taxation at pretty much an all time high yet services in terminal decline. The most expensive energy costs in the world and still the politicians won't deviate from the deranged net zero madness. And yes, I will say it. Last but far from least, uncontrolled immigration. There you go, you've got your wish. You can shout Raaaycist at me. And people still wonder why the country has had enough.   | |||
"Britain is far from perfect, and has been getting progressively worse for decades now. There is only one way that it will ever get better is in 2029 when Reform UK take power. Best of luck to you. Interested to hear what you know as undeniable that reform UK plc are going to do to make the UK better? Well they can't do any worse. The UK was going seriously down hill 21 years ago when I left. On my now rare visits back I only see more and more decline. You think the UK can't get worse? What was wrong with the UK 21 years ago? Is their some things specific you can say? Only because I want to know what you class as "decline" because it could be different. Oh the UK can get a lot worse, what I said was "they" (Reform) can't do any worse. I see where you are trying to go with this. To be fair, when I look back now it didn't look that bad 21 years ago but the seeds of decline were there. Britain was at the fag end of the Blair/Brown government but at the time it looked likely that they were going to get re-elected. I'd had enough of Labour then and while I (wrongly) had high hopes for Cameron I just couldn't see him winning. Anyone who can't see the decline in the last 21 years must be either blind or so insulated not to notice. I remember my last visit to the UK when I sat down for a coffee in the centre of my old home town. Even though it was February I sat outside because, horror of horrors, I still like a ciggie. After a while I began to wonder where I was. The set of One Flew Over The Cuckoo's nest? The bar room scene in Star Wars? Some Dystopian Mad Maxesque world of the future? Could have been any or all of them. Some of the outfits made your average circus clown look sober and conservative, women who hadn't even bothered to get dressed at all wandering around the town centre wearing pyjamas and dressing gowns. You may not have standards but I still have. There was even one guy walking up and down shouting at lamp posts. Mental 'elf ishoos or just high as a kite? Probably a third of the shops were boarded up and most of the rest were betting shops, vape stores or Turkish barbers with no customers. Things that I didn't see but know only too well like the growth in knife crime, ch*ldren killing ch*ldren, rampant dr*g use with the accompanying gang warfare. Young girls being targeted by Asian grooming gangs. The list could go on. All that is before we get onto the politics. Taxation at pretty much an all time high yet services in terminal decline. The most expensive energy costs in the world and still the politicians won't deviate from the deranged net zero madness. And yes, I will say it. Last but far from least, uncontrolled immigration. There you go, you've got your wish. You can shout Raaaycist at me. And people still wonder why the country has had enough. "An issue that I see we have as a country is a loss of national identity. It has been slowly eroded away by groups who weaponise identity, this makes national identity a dirty word and one people are afraid of, groups on both sides of political landscape are guilty of this... Younger people and families are now more inclined to follow the global identity of a fast food giant, sports club or social media influencers who are trying to provide a sense of belonging. I see very little pride, or shared values that would encourage a sense of belonging at a national level. | |||
"Britain is far from perfect, and has been getting progressively worse for decades now. There is only one way that it will ever get better is in 2029 when Reform UK take power. Best of luck to you. Interested to hear what you know as undeniable that reform UK plc are going to do to make the UK better? Well they can't do any worse. The UK was going seriously down hill 21 years ago when I left. On my now rare visits back I only see more and more decline. You think the UK can't get worse? What was wrong with the UK 21 years ago? Is their some things specific you can say? Only because I want to know what you class as "decline" because it could be different. Oh the UK can get a lot worse, what I said was "they" (Reform) can't do any worse. I see where you are trying to go with this. To be fair, when I look back now it didn't look that bad 21 years ago but the seeds of decline were there. Britain was at the fag end of the Blair/Brown government but at the time it looked likely that they were going to get re-elected. I'd had enough of Labour then and while I (wrongly) had high hopes for Cameron I just couldn't see him winning. Anyone who can't see the decline in the last 21 years must be either blind or so insulated not to notice. I remember my last visit to the UK when I sat down for a coffee in the centre of my old home town. Even though it was February I sat outside because, horror of horrors, I still like a ciggie. After a while I began to wonder where I was. The set of One Flew Over The Cuckoo's nest? The bar room scene in Star Wars? Some Dystopian Mad Maxesque world of the future? Could have been any or all of them. Some of the outfits made your average circus clown look sober and conservative, women who hadn't even bothered to get dressed at all wandering around the town centre wearing pyjamas and dressing gowns. You may not have standards but I still have. There was even one guy walking up and down shouting at lamp posts. Mental 'elf ishoos or just high as a kite? Probably a third of the shops were boarded up and most of the rest were betting shops, vape stores or Turkish barbers with no customers. Things that I didn't see but know only too well like the growth in knife crime, ch*ldren killing ch*ldren, rampant dr*g use with the accompanying gang warfare. Young girls being targeted by Asian grooming gangs. The list could go on. All that is before we get onto the politics. Taxation at pretty much an all time high yet services in terminal decline. The most expensive energy costs in the world and still the politicians won't deviate from the deranged net zero madness. And yes, I will say it. Last but far from least, uncontrolled immigration. There you go, you've got your wish. You can shout Raaaycist at me. And people still wonder why the country has had enough.
An issue that I see we have as a country is a loss of national identity. It has been slowly eroded away by groups who weaponise identity, this makes national identity a dirty word and one people are afraid of, groups on both sides of political landscape are guilty of this...
Younger people and families are now more inclined to follow the global identity of a fast food giant, sports club or social media influencers who are trying to provide a sense of belonging.
I see very little pride, or shared values that would encourage a sense of belonging at a national level. "Very true | |||
"Britain is far from perfect, and has been getting progressively worse for decades now. There is only one way that it will ever get better is in 2029 when Reform UK take power. Best of luck to you. Interested to hear what you know as undeniable that reform UK plc are going to do to make the UK better? Well they can't do any worse. The UK was going seriously down hill 21 years ago when I left. On my now rare visits back I only see more and more decline. You think the UK can't get worse? What was wrong with the UK 21 years ago? Is their some things specific you can say? Only because I want to know what you class as "decline" because it could be different. Oh the UK can get a lot worse, what I said was "they" (Reform) can't do any worse. I see where you are trying to go with this. To be fair, when I look back now it didn't look that bad 21 years ago but the seeds of decline were there. Britain was at the fag end of the Blair/Brown government but at the time it looked likely that they were going to get re-elected. I'd had enough of Labour then and while I (wrongly) had high hopes for Cameron I just couldn't see him winning. Anyone who can't see the decline in the last 21 years must be either blind or so insulated not to notice. I remember my last visit to the UK when I sat down for a coffee in the centre of my old home town. Even though it was February I sat outside because, horror of horrors, I still like a ciggie. After a while I began to wonder where I was. The set of One Flew Over The Cuckoo's nest? The bar room scene in Star Wars? Some Dystopian Mad Maxesque world of the future? Could have been any or all of them. Some of the outfits made your average circus clown look sober and conservative, women who hadn't even bothered to get dressed at all wandering around the town centre wearing pyjamas and dressing gowns. You may not have standards but I still have. There was even one guy walking up and down shouting at lamp posts. Mental 'elf ishoos or just high as a kite? Probably a third of the shops were boarded up and most of the rest were betting shops, vape stores or Turkish barbers with no customers. Things that I didn't see but know only too well like the growth in knife crime, ch*ldren killing ch*ldren, rampant dr*g use with the accompanying gang warfare. Young girls being targeted by Asian grooming gangs. The list could go on. All that is before we get onto the politics. Taxation at pretty much an all time high yet services in terminal decline. The most expensive energy costs in the world and still the politicians won't deviate from the deranged net zero madness. And yes, I will say it. Last but far from least, uncontrolled immigration. There you go, you've got your wish. You can shout Raaaycist at me. And people still wonder why the country has had enough. "I wasn't going anywhere with it, I appreciate the honesty in that response. I can't assume anything about racism from your opinion because that's just a summary. I just wanted to know what your take is, and how you arrived at that to say there's been decline for that space of time. I think there's been decline for far longer than that personally, maybe at least in the time I've been alive. I don't think anyone can convincingly admit that reform will make the UK better, because well nobody knows what they're going to do and its quite subjective. I certainly think they would change the UK, that's all but certain, but not necessarily for the better, but people want change so I can see why they're attractive. I hold David Cameron personally responsible for the majority of the UK "decline", a tory party that have no conservative identity, which similarly is like the current labour party who have no classic labour values. So it's no wonder reform are cleaning up with what they sound like to the masses. I used to go to France and Germany a lot as a kid. It always surprised me how much more infrastructure and visible wind farms they had, I'm talking 30 years ago etc. The point I'm making with that is the UK is a whole time I've been alive behind similar/comparable sized nations and now are probably compounding in how much we have fallen behind them. HS2 a prime example. European nations have had that for that long too, yet the UK still hasn't built it and has scaled it back. Pathetic. I read something recently that said the UK is the lowest in the G7 for private and/or public investment over the last 50 years. So it's not any one person or organisation at the sole blame for that, everyone is just complicit in seeing things decay. | |||
"Britain is far from perfect, and has been getting progressively worse for decades now. There is only one way that it will ever get better is in 2029 when Reform UK take power. Best of luck to you. Interested to hear what you know as undeniable that reform UK plc are going to do to make the UK better? Well they can't do any worse. The UK was going seriously down hill 21 years ago when I left. On my now rare visits back I only see more and more decline. You think the UK can't get worse? What was wrong with the UK 21 years ago? Is their some things specific you can say? Only because I want to know what you class as "decline" because it could be different. Oh the UK can get a lot worse, what I said was "they" (Reform) can't do any worse. I see where you are trying to go with this. To be fair, when I look back now it didn't look that bad 21 years ago but the seeds of decline were there. Britain was at the fag end of the Blair/Brown government but at the time it looked likely that they were going to get re-elected. I'd had enough of Labour then and while I (wrongly) had high hopes for Cameron I just couldn't see him winning. Anyone who can't see the decline in the last 21 years must be either blind or so insulated not to notice. I remember my last visit to the UK when I sat down for a coffee in the centre of my old home town. Even though it was February I sat outside because, horror of horrors, I still like a ciggie. After a while I began to wonder where I was. The set of One Flew Over The Cuckoo's nest? The bar room scene in Star Wars? Some Dystopian Mad Maxesque world of the future? Could have been any or all of them. Some of the outfits made your average circus clown look sober and conservative, women who hadn't even bothered to get dressed at all wandering around the town centre wearing pyjamas and dressing gowns. You may not have standards but I still have. There was even one guy walking up and down shouting at lamp posts. Mental 'elf ishoos or just high as a kite? Probably a third of the shops were boarded up and most of the rest were betting shops, vape stores or Turkish barbers with no customers. Things that I didn't see but know only too well like the growth in knife crime, ch*ldren killing ch*ldren, rampant dr*g use with the accompanying gang warfare. Young girls being targeted by Asian grooming gangs. The list could go on. All that is before we get onto the politics. Taxation at pretty much an all time high yet services in terminal decline. The most expensive energy costs in the world and still the politicians won't deviate from the deranged net zero madness. And yes, I will say it. Last but far from least, uncontrolled immigration. There you go, you've got your wish. You can shout Raaaycist at me. And people still wonder why the country has had enough.
I wasn't going anywhere with it, I appreciate the honesty in that response. I can't assume anything about racism from your opinion because that's just a summary. I just wanted to know what your take is, and how you arrived at that to say there's been decline for that space of time. I think there's been decline for far longer than that personally, maybe at least in the time I've been alive.
I don't think anyone can convincingly admit that reform will make the UK better, because well nobody knows what they're going to do and its quite subjective. I certainly think they would change the UK, that's all but certain, but not necessarily for the better, but people want change so I can see why they're attractive. I hold David Cameron personally responsible for the majority of the UK "decline", a tory party that have no conservative identity, which similarly is like the current labour party who have no classic labour values. So it's no wonder reform are cleaning up with what they sound like to the masses.
I used to go to France and Germany a lot as a kid. It always surprised me how much more infrastructure and visible wind farms they had, I'm talking 30 years ago etc. The point I'm making with that is the UK is a whole time I've been alive behind similar/comparable sized nations and now are probably compounding in how much we have fallen behind them. HS2 a prime example. European nations have had that for that long too, yet the UK still hasn't built it and has scaled it back. Pathetic. I read something recently that said the UK is the lowest in the G7 for private and/or public investment over the last 50 years. So it's not any one person or organisation at the sole blame for that, everyone is just complicit in seeing things decay."I would argue the unions of the late 60's all the way through to 1979 were the organisations responsible for the country falling behind, they started the rot. | |||
"Britain is far from perfect, and has been getting progressively worse for decades now. There is only one way that it will ever get better is in 2029 when Reform UK take power. Best of luck to you. Interested to hear what you know as undeniable that reform UK plc are going to do to make the UK better? Well they can't do any worse. The UK was going seriously down hill 21 years ago when I left. On my now rare visits back I only see more and more decline. You think the UK can't get worse? What was wrong with the UK 21 years ago? Is their some things specific you can say? Only because I want to know what you class as "decline" because it could be different. Oh the UK can get a lot worse, what I said was "they" (Reform) can't do any worse. I see where you are trying to go with this. To be fair, when I look back now it didn't look that bad 21 years ago but the seeds of decline were there. Britain was at the fag end of the Blair/Brown government but at the time it looked likely that they were going to get re-elected. I'd had enough of Labour then and while I (wrongly) had high hopes for Cameron I just couldn't see him winning. Anyone who can't see the decline in the last 21 years must be either blind or so insulated not to notice. I remember my last visit to the UK when I sat down for a coffee in the centre of my old home town. Even though it was February I sat outside because, horror of horrors, I still like a ciggie. After a while I began to wonder where I was. The set of One Flew Over The Cuckoo's nest? The bar room scene in Star Wars? Some Dystopian Mad Maxesque world of the future? Could have been any or all of them. Some of the outfits made your average circus clown look sober and conservative, women who hadn't even bothered to get dressed at all wandering around the town centre wearing pyjamas and dressing gowns. You may not have standards but I still have. There was even one guy walking up and down shouting at lamp posts. Mental 'elf ishoos or just high as a kite? Probably a third of the shops were boarded up and most of the rest were betting shops, vape stores or Turkish barbers with no customers. Things that I didn't see but know only too well like the growth in knife crime, ch*ldren killing ch*ldren, rampant dr*g use with the accompanying gang warfare. Young girls being targeted by Asian grooming gangs. The list could go on. All that is before we get onto the politics. Taxation at pretty much an all time high yet services in terminal decline. The most expensive energy costs in the world and still the politicians won't deviate from the deranged net zero madness. And yes, I will say it. Last but far from least, uncontrolled immigration. There you go, you've got your wish. You can shout Raaaycist at me. And people still wonder why the country has had enough.
I wasn't going anywhere with it, I appreciate the honesty in that response. I can't assume anything about racism from your opinion because that's just a summary. I just wanted to know what your take is, and how you arrived at that to say there's been decline for that space of time. I think there's been decline for far longer than that personally, maybe at least in the time I've been alive.
I don't think anyone can convincingly admit that reform will make the UK better, because well nobody knows what they're going to do and its quite subjective. I certainly think they would change the UK, that's all but certain, but not necessarily for the better, but people want change so I can see why they're attractive. I hold David Cameron personally responsible for the majority of the UK "decline", a tory party that have no conservative identity, which similarly is like the current labour party who have no classic labour values. So it's no wonder reform are cleaning up with what they sound like to the masses.
I used to go to France and Germany a lot as a kid. It always surprised me how much more infrastructure and visible wind farms they had, I'm talking 30 years ago etc. The point I'm making with that is the UK is a whole time I've been alive behind similar/comparable sized nations and now are probably compounding in how much we have fallen behind them. HS2 a prime example. European nations have had that for that long too, yet the UK still hasn't built it and has scaled it back. Pathetic. I read something recently that said the UK is the lowest in the G7 for private and/or public investment over the last 50 years. So it's not any one person or organisation at the sole blame for that, everyone is just complicit in seeing things decay.
I would argue the unions of the late 60's all the way through to 1979 were the organisations responsible for the country falling behind, they started the rot. "So 45 years on, not once has there been a concerted effort to turn that around? I mean they had their faults, that is undeniable. So contrast the union movement across the British channel and these nations have unions that have had great effect on their stakeholders, have members that sit on boards and work with their organisations instead of against them. But just blaming the union's for being the sole reason for decline shows your bias and is just laughable with how lazy it is. I'd say brexit, coupled with the accelerator of what covid meant financially to the taxpayer, has what's made the UK really feel to the masses that it is in decline. | |||
"Britain is far from perfect, and has been getting progressively worse for decades now. There is only one way that it will ever get better is in 2029 when Reform UK take power. Best of luck to you. Interested to hear what you know as undeniable that reform UK plc are going to do to make the UK better? Well they can't do any worse. The UK was going seriously down hill 21 years ago when I left. On my now rare visits back I only see more and more decline. You think the UK can't get worse? What was wrong with the UK 21 years ago? Is their some things specific you can say? Only because I want to know what you class as "decline" because it could be different. Oh the UK can get a lot worse, what I said was "they" (Reform) can't do any worse. I see where you are trying to go with this. To be fair, when I look back now it didn't look that bad 21 years ago but the seeds of decline were there. Britain was at the fag end of the Blair/Brown government but at the time it looked likely that they were going to get re-elected. I'd had enough of Labour then and while I (wrongly) had high hopes for Cameron I just couldn't see him winning. Anyone who can't see the decline in the last 21 years must be either blind or so insulated not to notice. I remember my last visit to the UK when I sat down for a coffee in the centre of my old home town. Even though it was February I sat outside because, horror of horrors, I still like a ciggie. After a while I began to wonder where I was. The set of One Flew Over The Cuckoo's nest? The bar room scene in Star Wars? Some Dystopian Mad Maxesque world of the future? Could have been any or all of them. Some of the outfits made your average circus clown look sober and conservative, women who hadn't even bothered to get dressed at all wandering around the town centre wearing pyjamas and dressing gowns. You may not have standards but I still have. There was even one guy walking up and down shouting at lamp posts. Mental 'elf ishoos or just high as a kite? Probably a third of the shops were boarded up and most of the rest were betting shops, vape stores or Turkish barbers with no customers. Things that I didn't see but know only too well like the growth in knife crime, ch*ldren killing ch*ldren, rampant dr*g use with the accompanying gang warfare. Young girls being targeted by Asian grooming gangs. The list could go on. All that is before we get onto the politics. Taxation at pretty much an all time high yet services in terminal decline. The most expensive energy costs in the world and still the politicians won't deviate from the deranged net zero madness. And yes, I will say it. Last but far from least, uncontrolled immigration. There you go, you've got your wish. You can shout Raaaycist at me. And people still wonder why the country has had enough.
I wasn't going anywhere with it, I appreciate the honesty in that response. I can't assume anything about racism from your opinion because that's just a summary. I just wanted to know what your take is, and how you arrived at that to say there's been decline for that space of time. I think there's been decline for far longer than that personally, maybe at least in the time I've been alive.
I don't think anyone can convincingly admit that reform will make the UK better, because well nobody knows what they're going to do and its quite subjective. I certainly think they would change the UK, that's all but certain, but not necessarily for the better, but people want change so I can see why they're attractive. I hold David Cameron personally responsible for the majority of the UK "decline", a tory party that have no conservative identity, which similarly is like the current labour party who have no classic labour values. So it's no wonder reform are cleaning up with what they sound like to the masses.
I used to go to France and Germany a lot as a kid. It always surprised me how much more infrastructure and visible wind farms they had, I'm talking 30 years ago etc. The point I'm making with that is the UK is a whole time I've been alive behind similar/comparable sized nations and now are probably compounding in how much we have fallen behind them. HS2 a prime example. European nations have had that for that long too, yet the UK still hasn't built it and has scaled it back. Pathetic. I read something recently that said the UK is the lowest in the G7 for private and/or public investment over the last 50 years. So it's not any one person or organisation at the sole blame for that, everyone is just complicit in seeing things decay.
I would argue the unions of the late 60's all the way through to 1979 were the organisations responsible for the country falling behind, they started the rot.
So 45 years on, not once has there been a concerted effort to turn that around? I mean they had their faults, that is undeniable. So contrast the union movement across the British channel and these nations have unions that have had great effect on their stakeholders, have members that sit on boards and work with their organisations instead of against them. But just blaming the union's for being the sole reason for decline shows your bias and is just laughable with how lazy it is.
I'd say brexit, coupled with the accelerator of what covid meant financially to the taxpayer, has what's made the UK really feel to the masses that it is in decline."Do you know what damage they did to the country or are you really going to brush over that and throw in a splash of whataboutey? You have proven my point, other countries did and do manage to have unions they can work with. The unions here should learn a lesson from them and stop holding the country to ransom whilst holding back progress in so many crucial services. However realistically, why would they bother? Labour walked in and handed them everything they wanted and more for being a ball and chain around the last government. Blaming Brexit and covid for the country being in a mess is fair for a blip in recent history, but minor over the longterm. | |||
"Britain is far from perfect, and has been getting progressively worse for decades now. There is only one way that it will ever get better is in 2029 when Reform UK take power. Best of luck to you. Interested to hear what you know as undeniable that reform UK plc are going to do to make the UK better? Well they can't do any worse. The UK was going seriously down hill 21 years ago when I left. On my now rare visits back I only see more and more decline. You think the UK can't get worse? What was wrong with the UK 21 years ago? Is their some things specific you can say? Only because I want to know what you class as "decline" because it could be different. Oh the UK can get a lot worse, what I said was "they" (Reform) can't do any worse. I see where you are trying to go with this. To be fair, when I look back now it didn't look that bad 21 years ago but the seeds of decline were there. Britain was at the fag end of the Blair/Brown government but at the time it looked likely that they were going to get re-elected. I'd had enough of Labour then and while I (wrongly) had high hopes for Cameron I just couldn't see him winning. Anyone who can't see the decline in the last 21 years must be either blind or so insulated not to notice. I remember my last visit to the UK when I sat down for a coffee in the centre of my old home town. Even though it was February I sat outside because, horror of horrors, I still like a ciggie. After a while I began to wonder where I was. The set of One Flew Over The Cuckoo's nest? The bar room scene in Star Wars? Some Dystopian Mad Maxesque world of the future? Could have been any or all of them. Some of the outfits made your average circus clown look sober and conservative, women who hadn't even bothered to get dressed at all wandering around the town centre wearing pyjamas and dressing gowns. You may not have standards but I still have. There was even one guy walking up and down shouting at lamp posts. Mental 'elf ishoos or just high as a kite? Probably a third of the shops were boarded up and most of the rest were betting shops, vape stores or Turkish barbers with no customers. Things that I didn't see but know only too well like the growth in knife crime, ch*ldren killing ch*ldren, rampant dr*g use with the accompanying gang warfare. Young girls being targeted by Asian grooming gangs. The list could go on. All that is before we get onto the politics. Taxation at pretty much an all time high yet services in terminal decline. The most expensive energy costs in the world and still the politicians won't deviate from the deranged net zero madness. And yes, I will say it. Last but far from least, uncontrolled immigration. There you go, you've got your wish. You can shout Raaaycist at me. And people still wonder why the country has had enough.
I wasn't going anywhere with it, I appreciate the honesty in that response. I can't assume anything about racism from your opinion because that's just a summary. I just wanted to know what your take is, and how you arrived at that to say there's been decline for that space of time. I think there's been decline for far longer than that personally, maybe at least in the time I've been alive.
I don't think anyone can convincingly admit that reform will make the UK better, because well nobody knows what they're going to do and its quite subjective. I certainly think they would change the UK, that's all but certain, but not necessarily for the better, but people want change so I can see why they're attractive. I hold David Cameron personally responsible for the majority of the UK "decline", a tory party that have no conservative identity, which similarly is like the current labour party who have no classic labour values. So it's no wonder reform are cleaning up with what they sound like to the masses.
I used to go to France and Germany a lot as a kid. It always surprised me how much more infrastructure and visible wind farms they had, I'm talking 30 years ago etc. The point I'm making with that is the UK is a whole time I've been alive behind similar/comparable sized nations and now are probably compounding in how much we have fallen behind them. HS2 a prime example. European nations have had that for that long too, yet the UK still hasn't built it and has scaled it back. Pathetic. I read something recently that said the UK is the lowest in the G7 for private and/or public investment over the last 50 years. So it's not any one person or organisation at the sole blame for that, everyone is just complicit in seeing things decay.
I would argue the unions of the late 60's all the way through to 1979 were the organisations responsible for the country falling behind, they started the rot. "Some of the unions were awful, well their leaders were in the 70s with how they acted and I say that as an ex official.. To ignore Thatcher and how she took on the unions which oddly enough is often lauded by some as a turning point in such things and to blame the actions upon them then for where we are now after Thatcher's anti trades union legislation which Blair pretty much kept doesn't add up and it's a bit of a glib, tired cliche which isn't your normal manner..? The biggest union in the early 90s was Tesco and if anyone can point out when they have ever taken action I'm all ears.. The figures don't lie that under the ideology of Osborne and Cameron the very people that provide the services we all (apart from the very rich) rely upon where unjustly penalised for a global problem by the financial sectors.. After 14 years of being the whipping boy they listened to their members and started to address the unfairness of what austerity did to their living standards as evidenced by the amount of doctors, police and teachers etc who have left and are still leaving the country .. Blair got many things wrong and some right but until the global crash the economy whilst not dynamic was doing well.. I still however call him a used car salesman now, but if he was that then Cameron and mist of the following Tory PM's were car washers.. | |||
"Britain is far from perfect, and has been getting progressively worse for decades now. There is only one way that it will ever get better is in 2029 when Reform UK take power. Best of luck to you. Interested to hear what you know as undeniable that reform UK plc are going to do to make the UK better? Well they can't do any worse. The UK was going seriously down hill 21 years ago when I left. On my now rare visits back I only see more and more decline. You think the UK can't get worse? What was wrong with the UK 21 years ago? Is their some things specific you can say? Only because I want to know what you class as "decline" because it could be different. Oh the UK can get a lot worse, what I said was "they" (Reform) can't do any worse. I see where you are trying to go with this. To be fair, when I look back now it didn't look that bad 21 years ago but the seeds of decline were there. Britain was at the fag end of the Blair/Brown government but at the time it looked likely that they were going to get re-elected. I'd had enough of Labour then and while I (wrongly) had high hopes for Cameron I just couldn't see him winning. Anyone who can't see the decline in the last 21 years must be either blind or so insulated not to notice. I remember my last visit to the UK when I sat down for a coffee in the centre of my old home town. Even though it was February I sat outside because, horror of horrors, I still like a ciggie. After a while I began to wonder where I was. The set of One Flew Over The Cuckoo's nest? The bar room scene in Star Wars? Some Dystopian Mad Maxesque world of the future? Could have been any or all of them. Some of the outfits made your average circus clown look sober and conservative, women who hadn't even bothered to get dressed at all wandering around the town centre wearing pyjamas and dressing gowns. You may not have standards but I still have. There was even one guy walking up and down shouting at lamp posts. Mental 'elf ishoos or just high as a kite? Probably a third of the shops were boarded up and most of the rest were betting shops, vape stores or Turkish barbers with no customers. Things that I didn't see but know only too well like the growth in knife crime, ch*ldren killing ch*ldren, rampant dr*g use with the accompanying gang warfare. Young girls being targeted by Asian grooming gangs. The list could go on. All that is before we get onto the politics. Taxation at pretty much an all time high yet services in terminal decline. The most expensive energy costs in the world and still the politicians won't deviate from the deranged net zero madness. And yes, I will say it. Last but far from least, uncontrolled immigration. There you go, you've got your wish. You can shout Raaaycist at me. And people still wonder why the country has had enough.
I wasn't going anywhere with it, I appreciate the honesty in that response. I can't assume anything about racism from your opinion because that's just a summary. I just wanted to know what your take is, and how you arrived at that to say there's been decline for that space of time. I think there's been decline for far longer than that personally, maybe at least in the time I've been alive.
I don't think anyone can convincingly admit that reform will make the UK better, because well nobody knows what they're going to do and its quite subjective. I certainly think they would change the UK, that's all but certain, but not necessarily for the better, but people want change so I can see why they're attractive. I hold David Cameron personally responsible for the majority of the UK "decline", a tory party that have no conservative identity, which similarly is like the current labour party who have no classic labour values. So it's no wonder reform are cleaning up with what they sound like to the masses.
I used to go to France and Germany a lot as a kid. It always surprised me how much more infrastructure and visible wind farms they had, I'm talking 30 years ago etc. The point I'm making with that is the UK is a whole time I've been alive behind similar/comparable sized nations and now are probably compounding in how much we have fallen behind them. HS2 a prime example. European nations have had that for that long too, yet the UK still hasn't built it and has scaled it back. Pathetic. I read something recently that said the UK is the lowest in the G7 for private and/or public investment over the last 50 years. So it's not any one person or organisation at the sole blame for that, everyone is just complicit in seeing things decay.
I would argue the unions of the late 60's all the way through to 1979 were the organisations responsible for the country falling behind, they started the rot.
So 45 years on, not once has there been a concerted effort to turn that around? I mean they had their faults, that is undeniable. So contrast the union movement across the British channel and these nations have unions that have had great effect on their stakeholders, have members that sit on boards and work with their organisations instead of against them. But just blaming the union's for being the sole reason for decline shows your bias and is just laughable with how lazy it is.
I'd say brexit, coupled with the accelerator of what covid meant financially to the taxpayer, has what's made the UK really feel to the masses that it is in decline.
Do you know what damage they did to the country or are you really going to brush over that and throw in a splash of whataboutey?
You have proven my point, other countries did and do manage to have unions they can work with. The unions here should learn a lesson from them and stop holding the country to ransom whilst holding back progress in so many crucial services.
However realistically, why would they bother? Labour walked in and handed them everything they wanted and more for being a ball and chain around the last government.
Blaming Brexit and covid for the country being in a mess is fair for a blip in recent history, but minor over the longterm. "The mindset is totally different between German politicians and business owners etc and the workers represented at board level by their unions, still here there's a lot of 'they'll get what their given and be happy with it's from those in power .. Working together or working for.. Successful businesses as with some of the car manufacturers from Japan and Germany have the former model.. British Leyland etc which is the one often trotted out had an us and them approach.. The difference in working is clear in how Honda etc perform here with the same working people that used to walk out at British Leyland etc over silly issues.. | |||
"Britain is far from perfect, and has been getting progressively worse for decades now. There is only one way that it will ever get better is in 2029 when Reform UK take power. Best of luck to you. Interested to hear what you know as undeniable that reform UK plc are going to do to make the UK better? Well they can't do any worse. The UK was going seriously down hill 21 years ago when I left. On my now rare visits back I only see more and more decline. You think the UK can't get worse? What was wrong with the UK 21 years ago? Is their some things specific you can say? Only because I want to know what you class as "decline" because it could be different. Oh the UK can get a lot worse, what I said was "they" (Reform) can't do any worse. I see where you are trying to go with this. To be fair, when I look back now it didn't look that bad 21 years ago but the seeds of decline were there. Britain was at the fag end of the Blair/Brown government but at the time it looked likely that they were going to get re-elected. I'd had enough of Labour then and while I (wrongly) had high hopes for Cameron I just couldn't see him winning. Anyone who can't see the decline in the last 21 years must be either blind or so insulated not to notice. I remember my last visit to the UK when I sat down for a coffee in the centre of my old home town. Even though it was February I sat outside because, horror of horrors, I still like a ciggie. After a while I began to wonder where I was. The set of One Flew Over The Cuckoo's nest? The bar room scene in Star Wars? Some Dystopian Mad Maxesque world of the future? Could have been any or all of them. Some of the outfits made your average circus clown look sober and conservative, women who hadn't even bothered to get dressed at all wandering around the town centre wearing pyjamas and dressing gowns. You may not have standards but I still have. There was even one guy walking up and down shouting at lamp posts. Mental 'elf ishoos or just high as a kite? Probably a third of the shops were boarded up and most of the rest were betting shops, vape stores or Turkish barbers with no customers. Things that I didn't see but know only too well like the growth in knife crime, ch*ldren killing ch*ldren, rampant dr*g use with the accompanying gang warfare. Young girls being targeted by Asian grooming gangs. The list could go on. All that is before we get onto the politics. Taxation at pretty much an all time high yet services in terminal decline. The most expensive energy costs in the world and still the politicians won't deviate from the deranged net zero madness. And yes, I will say it. Last but far from least, uncontrolled immigration. There you go, you've got your wish. You can shout Raaaycist at me. And people still wonder why the country has had enough.
I wasn't going anywhere with it, I appreciate the honesty in that response. I can't assume anything about racism from your opinion because that's just a summary. I just wanted to know what your take is, and how you arrived at that to say there's been decline for that space of time. I think there's been decline for far longer than that personally, maybe at least in the time I've been alive.
I don't think anyone can convincingly admit that reform will make the UK better, because well nobody knows what they're going to do and its quite subjective. I certainly think they would change the UK, that's all but certain, but not necessarily for the better, but people want change so I can see why they're attractive. I hold David Cameron personally responsible for the majority of the UK "decline", a tory party that have no conservative identity, which similarly is like the current labour party who have no classic labour values. So it's no wonder reform are cleaning up with what they sound like to the masses.
I used to go to France and Germany a lot as a kid. It always surprised me how much more infrastructure and visible wind farms they had, I'm talking 30 years ago etc. The point I'm making with that is the UK is a whole time I've been alive behind similar/comparable sized nations and now are probably compounding in how much we have fallen behind them. HS2 a prime example. European nations have had that for that long too, yet the UK still hasn't built it and has scaled it back. Pathetic. I read something recently that said the UK is the lowest in the G7 for private and/or public investment over the last 50 years. So it's not any one person or organisation at the sole blame for that, everyone is just complicit in seeing things decay.
I would argue the unions of the late 60's all the way through to 1979 were the organisations responsible for the country falling behind, they started the rot.
So 45 years on, not once has there been a concerted effort to turn that around? I mean they had their faults, that is undeniable. So contrast the union movement across the British channel and these nations have unions that have had great effect on their stakeholders, have members that sit on boards and work with their organisations instead of against them. But just blaming the union's for being the sole reason for decline shows your bias and is just laughable with how lazy it is.
I'd say brexit, coupled with the accelerator of what covid meant financially to the taxpayer, has what's made the UK really feel to the masses that it is in decline.
Do you know what damage they did to the country or are you really going to brush over that and throw in a splash of whataboutey?
You have proven my point, other countries did and do manage to have unions they can work with. The unions here should learn a lesson from them and stop holding the country to ransom whilst holding back progress in so many crucial services.
However realistically, why would they bother? Labour walked in and handed them everything they wanted and more for being a ball and chain around the last government.
Blaming Brexit and covid for the country being in a mess is fair for a blip in recent history, but minor over the longterm. "Nothing says selfish and fuck you jack than someone happy to see others take the hit for something they didn't cause and then to blame them for wanting to catch up with the rest of the society that their very input holds together in some cases.. Do you work in the financial sector by any chance? | |||
"Britain is far from perfect, and has been getting progressively worse for decades now. There is only one way that it will ever get better is in 2029 when Reform UK take power. Best of luck to you. Interested to hear what you know as undeniable that reform UK plc are going to do to make the UK better? Well they can't do any worse. The UK was going seriously down hill 21 years ago when I left. On my now rare visits back I only see more and more decline. You think the UK can't get worse? What was wrong with the UK 21 years ago? Is their some things specific you can say? Only because I want to know what you class as "decline" because it could be different. Oh the UK can get a lot worse, what I said was "they" (Reform) can't do any worse. I see where you are trying to go with this. To be fair, when I look back now it didn't look that bad 21 years ago but the seeds of decline were there. Britain was at the fag end of the Blair/Brown government but at the time it looked likely that they were going to get re-elected. I'd had enough of Labour then and while I (wrongly) had high hopes for Cameron I just couldn't see him winning. Anyone who can't see the decline in the last 21 years must be either blind or so insulated not to notice. I remember my last visit to the UK when I sat down for a coffee in the centre of my old home town. Even though it was February I sat outside because, horror of horrors, I still like a ciggie. After a while I began to wonder where I was. The set of One Flew Over The Cuckoo's nest? The bar room scene in Star Wars? Some Dystopian Mad Maxesque world of the future? Could have been any or all of them. Some of the outfits made your average circus clown look sober and conservative, women who hadn't even bothered to get dressed at all wandering around the town centre wearing pyjamas and dressing gowns. You may not have standards but I still have. There was even one guy walking up and down shouting at lamp posts. Mental 'elf ishoos or just high as a kite? Probably a third of the shops were boarded up and most of the rest were betting shops, vape stores or Turkish barbers with no customers. Things that I didn't see but know only too well like the growth in knife crime, ch*ldren killing ch*ldren, rampant dr*g use with the accompanying gang warfare. Young girls being targeted by Asian grooming gangs. The list could go on. All that is before we get onto the politics. Taxation at pretty much an all time high yet services in terminal decline. The most expensive energy costs in the world and still the politicians won't deviate from the deranged net zero madness. And yes, I will say it. Last but far from least, uncontrolled immigration. There you go, you've got your wish. You can shout Raaaycist at me. And people still wonder why the country has had enough.
I wasn't going anywhere with it, I appreciate the honesty in that response. I can't assume anything about racism from your opinion because that's just a summary. I just wanted to know what your take is, and how you arrived at that to say there's been decline for that space of time. I think there's been decline for far longer than that personally, maybe at least in the time I've been alive.
I don't think anyone can convincingly admit that reform will make the UK better, because well nobody knows what they're going to do and its quite subjective. I certainly think they would change the UK, that's all but certain, but not necessarily for the better, but people want change so I can see why they're attractive. I hold David Cameron personally responsible for the majority of the UK "decline", a tory party that have no conservative identity, which similarly is like the current labour party who have no classic labour values. So it's no wonder reform are cleaning up with what they sound like to the masses.
I used to go to France and Germany a lot as a kid. It always surprised me how much more infrastructure and visible wind farms they had, I'm talking 30 years ago etc. The point I'm making with that is the UK is a whole time I've been alive behind similar/comparable sized nations and now are probably compounding in how much we have fallen behind them. HS2 a prime example. European nations have had that for that long too, yet the UK still hasn't built it and has scaled it back. Pathetic. I read something recently that said the UK is the lowest in the G7 for private and/or public investment over the last 50 years. So it's not any one person or organisation at the sole blame for that, everyone is just complicit in seeing things decay.
I would argue the unions of the late 60's all the way through to 1979 were the organisations responsible for the country falling behind, they started the rot.
Some of the unions were awful, well their leaders were in the 70s with how they acted and I say that as an ex official..
To ignore Thatcher and how she took on the unions which oddly enough is often lauded by some as a turning point in such things and to blame the actions upon them then for where we are now after Thatcher's anti trades union legislation which Blair pretty much kept doesn't add up and it's a bit of a glib, tired cliche which isn't your normal manner..?
The biggest union in the early 90s was Tesco and if anyone can point out when they have ever taken action I'm all ears..
The figures don't lie that under the ideology of Osborne and Cameron the very people that provide the services we all (apart from the very rich) rely upon where unjustly penalised for a global problem by the financial sectors..
After 14 years of being the whipping boy they listened to their members and started to address the unfairness of what austerity did to their living standards as evidenced by the amount of doctors, police and teachers etc who have left and are still leaving the country ..
Blair got many things wrong and some right but until the global crash the economy whilst not dynamic was doing well..
I still however call him a used car salesman now, but if he was that then Cameron and mist of the following Tory PM's were car washers..
"Each elected government hands over the problems to the next. Labour who fell apart in the late 70's allowed unions too much power. The unions were trying to do more than represent their workers they were trying to control government policy with constant strike threats and holding the country to ransom. When Thatcher came to power she had a mountain to climb, what was her government to do? Clearly they couldn't take the route of the last government, it was inevitable that the problem needed to be dealt with. She didn't create the mess she was responding to it, which is often overlooked. Did thatcher get everything right, no, but she did start to fix the issues that were in front of her in the here and now. The deep divisions driven by socialist unions are damaging especially when those unions see a conservative government as the enemy. | |||
"Britain is far from perfect, and has been getting progressively worse for decades now. There is only one way that it will ever get better is in 2029 when Reform UK take power. Best of luck to you. Interested to hear what you know as undeniable that reform UK plc are going to do to make the UK better? Well they can't do any worse. The UK was going seriously down hill 21 years ago when I left. On my now rare visits back I only see more and more decline. You think the UK can't get worse? What was wrong with the UK 21 years ago? Is their some things specific you can say? Only because I want to know what you class as "decline" because it could be different. Oh the UK can get a lot worse, what I said was "they" (Reform) can't do any worse. I see where you are trying to go with this. To be fair, when I look back now it didn't look that bad 21 years ago but the seeds of decline were there. Britain was at the fag end of the Blair/Brown government but at the time it looked likely that they were going to get re-elected. I'd had enough of Labour then and while I (wrongly) had high hopes for Cameron I just couldn't see him winning. Anyone who can't see the decline in the last 21 years must be either blind or so insulated not to notice. I remember my last visit to the UK when I sat down for a coffee in the centre of my old home town. Even though it was February I sat outside because, horror of horrors, I still like a ciggie. After a while I began to wonder where I was. The set of One Flew Over The Cuckoo's nest? The bar room scene in Star Wars? Some Dystopian Mad Maxesque world of the future? Could have been any or all of them. Some of the outfits made your average circus clown look sober and conservative, women who hadn't even bothered to get dressed at all wandering around the town centre wearing pyjamas and dressing gowns. You may not have standards but I still have. There was even one guy walking up and down shouting at lamp posts. Mental 'elf ishoos or just high as a kite? Probably a third of the shops were boarded up and most of the rest were betting shops, vape stores or Turkish barbers with no customers. Things that I didn't see but know only too well like the growth in knife crime, ch*ldren killing ch*ldren, rampant dr*g use with the accompanying gang warfare. Young girls being targeted by Asian grooming gangs. The list could go on. All that is before we get onto the politics. Taxation at pretty much an all time high yet services in terminal decline. The most expensive energy costs in the world and still the politicians won't deviate from the deranged net zero madness. And yes, I will say it. Last but far from least, uncontrolled immigration. There you go, you've got your wish. You can shout Raaaycist at me. And people still wonder why the country has had enough.
I wasn't going anywhere with it, I appreciate the honesty in that response. I can't assume anything about racism from your opinion because that's just a summary. I just wanted to know what your take is, and how you arrived at that to say there's been decline for that space of time. I think there's been decline for far longer than that personally, maybe at least in the time I've been alive.
I don't think anyone can convincingly admit that reform will make the UK better, because well nobody knows what they're going to do and its quite subjective. I certainly think they would change the UK, that's all but certain, but not necessarily for the better, but people want change so I can see why they're attractive. I hold David Cameron personally responsible for the majority of the UK "decline", a tory party that have no conservative identity, which similarly is like the current labour party who have no classic labour values. So it's no wonder reform are cleaning up with what they sound like to the masses.
I used to go to France and Germany a lot as a kid. It always surprised me how much more infrastructure and visible wind farms they had, I'm talking 30 years ago etc. The point I'm making with that is the UK is a whole time I've been alive behind similar/comparable sized nations and now are probably compounding in how much we have fallen behind them. HS2 a prime example. European nations have had that for that long too, yet the UK still hasn't built it and has scaled it back. Pathetic. I read something recently that said the UK is the lowest in the G7 for private and/or public investment over the last 50 years. So it's not any one person or organisation at the sole blame for that, everyone is just complicit in seeing things decay.
I would argue the unions of the late 60's all the way through to 1979 were the organisations responsible for the country falling behind, they started the rot.
So 45 years on, not once has there been a concerted effort to turn that around? I mean they had their faults, that is undeniable. So contrast the union movement across the British channel and these nations have unions that have had great effect on their stakeholders, have members that sit on boards and work with their organisations instead of against them. But just blaming the union's for being the sole reason for decline shows your bias and is just laughable with how lazy it is.
I'd say brexit, coupled with the accelerator of what covid meant financially to the taxpayer, has what's made the UK really feel to the masses that it is in decline.
Do you know what damage they did to the country or are you really going to brush over that and throw in a splash of whataboutey?
You have proven my point, other countries did and do manage to have unions they can work with. The unions here should learn a lesson from them and stop holding the country to ransom whilst holding back progress in so many crucial services.
However realistically, why would they bother? Labour walked in and handed them everything they wanted and more for being a ball and chain around the last government.
Blaming Brexit and covid for the country being in a mess is fair for a blip in recent history, but minor over the longterm.
Nothing says selfish and fuck you jack than someone happy to see others take the hit for something they didn't cause and then to blame them for wanting to catch up with the rest of the society that their very input holds together in some cases..
Do you work in the financial sector by any chance?
"I'm not sure what your point is here, where did I say I was happy for anyone to take a hit? | |||
"Britain is far from perfect, and has been getting progressively worse for decades now. There is only one way that it will ever get better is in 2029 when Reform UK take power. Best of luck to you. Interested to hear what you know as undeniable that reform UK plc are going to do to make the UK better? Well they can't do any worse. The UK was going seriously down hill 21 years ago when I left. On my now rare visits back I only see more and more decline. You think the UK can't get worse? What was wrong with the UK 21 years ago? Is their some things specific you can say? Only because I want to know what you class as "decline" because it could be different. Oh the UK can get a lot worse, what I said was "they" (Reform) can't do any worse. I see where you are trying to go with this. To be fair, when I look back now it didn't look that bad 21 years ago but the seeds of decline were there. Britain was at the fag end of the Blair/Brown government but at the time it looked likely that they were going to get re-elected. I'd had enough of Labour then and while I (wrongly) had high hopes for Cameron I just couldn't see him winning. Anyone who can't see the decline in the last 21 years must be either blind or so insulated not to notice. I remember my last visit to the UK when I sat down for a coffee in the centre of my old home town. Even though it was February I sat outside because, horror of horrors, I still like a ciggie. After a while I began to wonder where I was. The set of One Flew Over The Cuckoo's nest? The bar room scene in Star Wars? Some Dystopian Mad Maxesque world of the future? Could have been any or all of them. Some of the outfits made your average circus clown look sober and conservative, women who hadn't even bothered to get dressed at all wandering around the town centre wearing pyjamas and dressing gowns. You may not have standards but I still have. There was even one guy walking up and down shouting at lamp posts. Mental 'elf ishoos or just high as a kite? Probably a third of the shops were boarded up and most of the rest were betting shops, vape stores or Turkish barbers with no customers. Things that I didn't see but know only too well like the growth in knife crime, ch*ldren killing ch*ldren, rampant dr*g use with the accompanying gang warfare. Young girls being targeted by Asian grooming gangs. The list could go on. All that is before we get onto the politics. Taxation at pretty much an all time high yet services in terminal decline. The most expensive energy costs in the world and still the politicians won't deviate from the deranged net zero madness. And yes, I will say it. Last but far from least, uncontrolled immigration. There you go, you've got your wish. You can shout Raaaycist at me. And people still wonder why the country has had enough.
I wasn't going anywhere with it, I appreciate the honesty in that response. I can't assume anything about racism from your opinion because that's just a summary. I just wanted to know what your take is, and how you arrived at that to say there's been decline for that space of time. I think there's been decline for far longer than that personally, maybe at least in the time I've been alive.
I don't think anyone can convincingly admit that reform will make the UK better, because well nobody knows what they're going to do and its quite subjective. I certainly think they would change the UK, that's all but certain, but not necessarily for the better, but people want change so I can see why they're attractive. I hold David Cameron personally responsible for the majority of the UK "decline", a tory party that have no conservative identity, which similarly is like the current labour party who have no classic labour values. So it's no wonder reform are cleaning up with what they sound like to the masses.
I used to go to France and Germany a lot as a kid. It always surprised me how much more infrastructure and visible wind farms they had, I'm talking 30 years ago etc. The point I'm making with that is the UK is a whole time I've been alive behind similar/comparable sized nations and now are probably compounding in how much we have fallen behind them. HS2 a prime example. European nations have had that for that long too, yet the UK still hasn't built it and has scaled it back. Pathetic. I read something recently that said the UK is the lowest in the G7 for private and/or public investment over the last 50 years. So it's not any one person or organisation at the sole blame for that, everyone is just complicit in seeing things decay.
I would argue the unions of the late 60's all the way through to 1979 were the organisations responsible for the country falling behind, they started the rot.
Some of the unions were awful, well their leaders were in the 70s with how they acted and I say that as an ex official..
To ignore Thatcher and how she took on the unions which oddly enough is often lauded by some as a turning point in such things and to blame the actions upon them then for where we are now after Thatcher's anti trades union legislation which Blair pretty much kept doesn't add up and it's a bit of a glib, tired cliche which isn't your normal manner..?
The biggest union in the early 90s was Tesco and if anyone can point out when they have ever taken action I'm all ears..
The figures don't lie that under the ideology of Osborne and Cameron the very people that provide the services we all (apart from the very rich) rely upon where unjustly penalised for a global problem by the financial sectors..
After 14 years of being the whipping boy they listened to their members and started to address the unfairness of what austerity did to their living standards as evidenced by the amount of doctors, police and teachers etc who have left and are still leaving the country ..
Blair got many things wrong and some right but until the global crash the economy whilst not dynamic was doing well..
I still however call him a used car salesman now, but if he was that then Cameron and mist of the following Tory PM's were car washers..
Each elected government hands over the problems to the next. Labour who fell apart in the late 70's allowed unions too much power. The unions were trying to do more than represent their workers they were trying to control government policy with constant strike threats and holding the country to ransom.
When Thatcher came to power she had a mountain to climb, what was her government to do? Clearly they couldn't take the route of the last government, it was inevitable that the problem needed to be dealt with. She didn't create the mess she was responding to it, which is often overlooked.
Did thatcher get everything right, no, but she did start to fix the issues that were in front of her in the here and now. The deep divisions driven by socialist unions are damaging especially when those unions see a conservative government as the enemy.
"To many she was pure evil, kept some odious murdering despots close as friends yet was happy to send some working people to jail who she knew were innocent.. She may have been doing that yes in sorting out what she inherited but equally so are this government after the shambles of the last lot.. | |||
"Britain is far from perfect, and has been getting progressively worse for decades now. There is only one way that it will ever get better is in 2029 when Reform UK take power. Best of luck to you. Interested to hear what you know as undeniable that reform UK plc are going to do to make the UK better? Well they can't do any worse. The UK was going seriously down hill 21 years ago when I left. On my now rare visits back I only see more and more decline. You think the UK can't get worse? What was wrong with the UK 21 years ago? Is their some things specific you can say? Only because I want to know what you class as "decline" because it could be different. Oh the UK can get a lot worse, what I said was "they" (Reform) can't do any worse. I see where you are trying to go with this. To be fair, when I look back now it didn't look that bad 21 years ago but the seeds of decline were there. Britain was at the fag end of the Blair/Brown government but at the time it looked likely that they were going to get re-elected. I'd had enough of Labour then and while I (wrongly) had high hopes for Cameron I just couldn't see him winning. Anyone who can't see the decline in the last 21 years must be either blind or so insulated not to notice. I remember my last visit to the UK when I sat down for a coffee in the centre of my old home town. Even though it was February I sat outside because, horror of horrors, I still like a ciggie. After a while I began to wonder where I was. The set of One Flew Over The Cuckoo's nest? The bar room scene in Star Wars? Some Dystopian Mad Maxesque world of the future? Could have been any or all of them. Some of the outfits made your average circus clown look sober and conservative, women who hadn't even bothered to get dressed at all wandering around the town centre wearing pyjamas and dressing gowns. You may not have standards but I still have. There was even one guy walking up and down shouting at lamp posts. Mental 'elf ishoos or just high as a kite? Probably a third of the shops were boarded up and most of the rest were betting shops, vape stores or Turkish barbers with no customers. Things that I didn't see but know only too well like the growth in knife crime, ch*ldren killing ch*ldren, rampant dr*g use with the accompanying gang warfare. Young girls being targeted by Asian grooming gangs. The list could go on. All that is before we get onto the politics. Taxation at pretty much an all time high yet services in terminal decline. The most expensive energy costs in the world and still the politicians won't deviate from the deranged net zero madness. And yes, I will say it. Last but far from least, uncontrolled immigration. There you go, you've got your wish. You can shout Raaaycist at me. And people still wonder why the country has had enough.
I wasn't going anywhere with it, I appreciate the honesty in that response. I can't assume anything about racism from your opinion because that's just a summary. I just wanted to know what your take is, and how you arrived at that to say there's been decline for that space of time. I think there's been decline for far longer than that personally, maybe at least in the time I've been alive.
I don't think anyone can convincingly admit that reform will make the UK better, because well nobody knows what they're going to do and its quite subjective. I certainly think they would change the UK, that's all but certain, but not necessarily for the better, but people want change so I can see why they're attractive. I hold David Cameron personally responsible for the majority of the UK "decline", a tory party that have no conservative identity, which similarly is like the current labour party who have no classic labour values. So it's no wonder reform are cleaning up with what they sound like to the masses.
I used to go to France and Germany a lot as a kid. It always surprised me how much more infrastructure and visible wind farms they had, I'm talking 30 years ago etc. The point I'm making with that is the UK is a whole time I've been alive behind similar/comparable sized nations and now are probably compounding in how much we have fallen behind them. HS2 a prime example. European nations have had that for that long too, yet the UK still hasn't built it and has scaled it back. Pathetic. I read something recently that said the UK is the lowest in the G7 for private and/or public investment over the last 50 years. So it's not any one person or organisation at the sole blame for that, everyone is just complicit in seeing things decay.
I would argue the unions of the late 60's all the way through to 1979 were the organisations responsible for the country falling behind, they started the rot.
So 45 years on, not once has there been a concerted effort to turn that around? I mean they had their faults, that is undeniable. So contrast the union movement across the British channel and these nations have unions that have had great effect on their stakeholders, have members that sit on boards and work with their organisations instead of against them. But just blaming the union's for being the sole reason for decline shows your bias and is just laughable with how lazy it is.
I'd say brexit, coupled with the accelerator of what covid meant financially to the taxpayer, has what's made the UK really feel to the masses that it is in decline.
Do you know what damage they did to the country or are you really going to brush over that and throw in a splash of whataboutey?
You have proven my point, other countries did and do manage to have unions they can work with. The unions here should learn a lesson from them and stop holding the country to ransom whilst holding back progress in so many crucial services.
However realistically, why would they bother? Labour walked in and handed them everything they wanted and more for being a ball and chain around the last government.
Blaming Brexit and covid for the country being in a mess is fair for a blip in recent history, but minor over the longterm.
Nothing says selfish and fuck you jack than someone happy to see others take the hit for something they didn't cause and then to blame them for wanting to catch up with the rest of the society that their very input holds together in some cases..
Do you work in the financial sector by any chance?
I'm not sure what your point is here, where did I say I was happy for anyone to take a hit? "You constantly slate doctors etc who were left behind by the last government in wanting to address some of the shortfall they took under Osborne.. | |||
"Britain is far from perfect, and has been getting progressively worse for decades now. There is only one way that it will ever get better is in 2029 when Reform UK take power. Best of luck to you. Interested to hear what you know as undeniable that reform UK plc are going to do to make the UK better? Well they can't do any worse. The UK was going seriously down hill 21 years ago when I left. On my now rare visits back I only see more and more decline. You think the UK can't get worse? What was wrong with the UK 21 years ago? Is their some things specific you can say? Only because I want to know what you class as "decline" because it could be different. Oh the UK can get a lot worse, what I said was "they" (Reform) can't do any worse. I see where you are trying to go with this. To be fair, when I look back now it didn't look that bad 21 years ago but the seeds of decline were there. Britain was at the fag end of the Blair/Brown government but at the time it looked likely that they were going to get re-elected. I'd had enough of Labour then and while I (wrongly) had high hopes for Cameron I just couldn't see him winning. Anyone who can't see the decline in the last 21 years must be either blind or so insulated not to notice. I remember my last visit to the UK when I sat down for a coffee in the centre of my old home town. Even though it was February I sat outside because, horror of horrors, I still like a ciggie. After a while I began to wonder where I was. The set of One Flew Over The Cuckoo's nest? The bar room scene in Star Wars? Some Dystopian Mad Maxesque world of the future? Could have been any or all of them. Some of the outfits made your average circus clown look sober and conservative, women who hadn't even bothered to get dressed at all wandering around the town centre wearing pyjamas and dressing gowns. You may not have standards but I still have. There was even one guy walking up and down shouting at lamp posts. Mental 'elf ishoos or just high as a kite? Probably a third of the shops were boarded up and most of the rest were betting shops, vape stores or Turkish barbers with no customers. Things that I didn't see but know only too well like the growth in knife crime, ch*ldren killing ch*ldren, rampant dr*g use with the accompanying gang warfare. Young girls being targeted by Asian grooming gangs. The list could go on. All that is before we get onto the politics. Taxation at pretty much an all time high yet services in terminal decline. The most expensive energy costs in the world and still the politicians won't deviate from the deranged net zero madness. And yes, I will say it. Last but far from least, uncontrolled immigration. There you go, you've got your wish. You can shout Raaaycist at me. And people still wonder why the country has had enough.
I wasn't going anywhere with it, I appreciate the honesty in that response. I can't assume anything about racism from your opinion because that's just a summary. I just wanted to know what your take is, and how you arrived at that to say there's been decline for that space of time. I think there's been decline for far longer than that personally, maybe at least in the time I've been alive.
I don't think anyone can convincingly admit that reform will make the UK better, because well nobody knows what they're going to do and its quite subjective. I certainly think they would change the UK, that's all but certain, but not necessarily for the better, but people want change so I can see why they're attractive. I hold David Cameron personally responsible for the majority of the UK "decline", a tory party that have no conservative identity, which similarly is like the current labour party who have no classic labour values. So it's no wonder reform are cleaning up with what they sound like to the masses.
I used to go to France and Germany a lot as a kid. It always surprised me how much more infrastructure and visible wind farms they had, I'm talking 30 years ago etc. The point I'm making with that is the UK is a whole time I've been alive behind similar/comparable sized nations and now are probably compounding in how much we have fallen behind them. HS2 a prime example. European nations have had that for that long too, yet the UK still hasn't built it and has scaled it back. Pathetic. I read something recently that said the UK is the lowest in the G7 for private and/or public investment over the last 50 years. So it's not any one person or organisation at the sole blame for that, everyone is just complicit in seeing things decay.
I would argue the unions of the late 60's all the way through to 1979 were the organisations responsible for the country falling behind, they started the rot.
Some of the unions were awful, well their leaders were in the 70s with how they acted and I say that as an ex official..
To ignore Thatcher and how she took on the unions which oddly enough is often lauded by some as a turning point in such things and to blame the actions upon them then for where we are now after Thatcher's anti trades union legislation which Blair pretty much kept doesn't add up and it's a bit of a glib, tired cliche which isn't your normal manner..?
The biggest union in the early 90s was Tesco and if anyone can point out when they have ever taken action I'm all ears..
The figures don't lie that under the ideology of Osborne and Cameron the very people that provide the services we all (apart from the very rich) rely upon where unjustly penalised for a global problem by the financial sectors..
After 14 years of being the whipping boy they listened to their members and started to address the unfairness of what austerity did to their living standards as evidenced by the amount of doctors, police and teachers etc who have left and are still leaving the country ..
Blair got many things wrong and some right but until the global crash the economy whilst not dynamic was doing well..
I still however call him a used car salesman now, but if he was that then Cameron and mist of the following Tory PM's were car washers..
Each elected government hands over the problems to the next. Labour who fell apart in the late 70's allowed unions too much power. The unions were trying to do more than represent their workers they were trying to control government policy with constant strike threats and holding the country to ransom.
When Thatcher came to power she had a mountain to climb, what was her government to do? Clearly they couldn't take the route of the last government, it was inevitable that the problem needed to be dealt with. She didn't create the mess she was responding to it, which is often overlooked.
Did thatcher get everything right, no, but she did start to fix the issues that were in front of her in the here and now. The deep divisions driven by socialist unions are damaging especially when those unions see a conservative government as the enemy.
To many she was pure evil, kept some odious murdering despots close as friends yet was happy to send some working people to jail who she knew were innocent..
She may have been doing that yes in sorting out what she inherited but equally so are this government after the shambles of the last lot.."Of course they are. As I have mentioned in another post, the problems don't suddenly disappear, however this government has added to the problems rather than fixing the existing. | |||
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"You constantly slate doctors etc who were left behind by the last government in wanting to address some of the shortfall they took under Osborne.." Junior doctors were never left behind.. In 2016, the government offered them an 11% basic pay rise. The BMA chose to walk away from negotiations rather than consider any type of reform, which again can be seen as holding back progress and service improvements for the public. Junior doctors also continued to receive annual pay rises even during the years when other sectors saw freezes, and during the time they were in dispute. As for the BMA, they showed their true colours when they were awarded their pot of money, sending out messages to organise another strike for the next year... | |||
"You constantly slate doctors etc who were left behind by the last government in wanting to address some of the shortfall they took under Osborne.. Junior doctors were never left behind.. In 2016, the government offered them an 11% basic pay rise. The BMA chose to walk away from negotiations rather than consider any type of reform, which again can be seen as holding back progress and service improvements for the public. Junior doctors also continued to receive annual pay rises even during the years when other sectors saw freezes, and during the time they were in dispute. As for the BMA, they showed their true colours when they were awarded their pot of money, sending out messages to organise another strike for the next year... " Reform.. That old word that all governments trot out when they want to dangle a carrot but in reality means a worsening of conditions and I say that from experience.. After six years I wonder if the 11 % (and for how many years ahead with no other pay claims) equalled what they had taken from them? | |||
"You constantly slate doctors etc who were left behind by the last government in wanting to address some of the shortfall they took under Osborne.. Junior doctors were never left behind.. In 2016, the government offered them an 11% basic pay rise. The BMA chose to walk away from negotiations rather than consider any type of reform, which again can be seen as holding back progress and service improvements for the public. Junior doctors also continued to receive annual pay rises even during the years when other sectors saw freezes, and during the time they were in dispute. As for the BMA, they showed their true colours when they were awarded their pot of money, sending out messages to organise another strike for the next year... Reform.. That old word that all governments trot out when they want to dangle a carrot but in reality means a worsening of conditions and I say that from experience.. After six years I wonder if the 11 % (and for how many years ahead with no other pay claims) equalled what they had taken from them? " If you consider change to working patterns or processes as a negative for the employee and gain for the employer, how do you expect any public service to evolve with the needs of their customers, the public? It is common practice to enter negotiation from a point of compromise and agreement, the BMA never entered a negotiation in good faith, it demanded no changes and would not relent an inch. I expect the actions of the BMA will accelerate privatisation of the NHS under this government and the next, this is what happens when unions demand and do not compromise, everything needs to change around them to lessen their grip. What you will take away from this is that I'm anti union, I'm not if the union is run well for its members, I am if the union is politically motivated and doesn't care how much damage is does to the country. | |||
"You constantly slate doctors etc who were left behind by the last government in wanting to address some of the shortfall they took under Osborne.. Junior doctors were never left behind.. In 2016, the government offered them an 11% basic pay rise. The BMA chose to walk away from negotiations rather than consider any type of reform, which again can be seen as holding back progress and service improvements for the public. Junior doctors also continued to receive annual pay rises even during the years when other sectors saw freezes, and during the time they were in dispute. As for the BMA, they showed their true colours when they were awarded their pot of money, sending out messages to organise another strike for the next year... Reform.. That old word that all governments trot out when they want to dangle a carrot but in reality means a worsening of conditions and I say that from experience.. After six years I wonder if the 11 % (and for how many years ahead with no other pay claims) equalled what they had taken from them? If you consider change to working patterns or processes as a negative for the employee and gain for the employer, how do you expect any public service to evolve with the needs of their customers, the public? It is common practice to enter negotiation from a point of compromise and agreement, the BMA never entered a negotiation in good faith, it demanded no changes and would not relent an inch. I expect the actions of the BMA will accelerate privatisation of the NHS under this government and the next, this is what happens when unions demand and do not compromise, everything needs to change around them to lessen their grip. What you will take away from this is that I'm anti union, I'm not if the union is run well for its members, I am if the union is politically motivated and doesn't care how much damage is does to the country. " I didn't say they were, you didn't specify what the 'reforms' where.. The BMA as a representative body is to look after the best interests of their members which of course will involve compromise etc, the members have the right to replace those representing them if they don't do that so one Dan assume the members are happy yes? The BMA are hardly radical so the tired old cliché of damaging the country is a facile generalisation.. They're at the coal face literally and want the best service for all and for their members and that's fine.. Privatisation has been a mess for the railways, water and energy but hey profit profit profit.. | |||
"You constantly slate doctors etc who were left behind by the last government in wanting to address some of the shortfall they took under Osborne.. Junior doctors were never left behind.. In 2016, the government offered them an 11% basic pay rise. The BMA chose to walk away from negotiations rather than consider any type of reform, which again can be seen as holding back progress and service improvements for the public. Junior doctors also continued to receive annual pay rises even during the years when other sectors saw freezes, and during the time they were in dispute. As for the BMA, they showed their true colours when they were awarded their pot of money, sending out messages to organise another strike for the next year... Reform.. That old word that all governments trot out when they want to dangle a carrot but in reality means a worsening of conditions and I say that from experience.. After six years I wonder if the 11 % (and for how many years ahead with no other pay claims) equalled what they had taken from them? If you consider change to working patterns or processes as a negative for the employee and gain for the employer, how do you expect any public service to evolve with the needs of their customers, the public? It is common practice to enter negotiation from a point of compromise and agreement, the BMA never entered a negotiation in good faith, it demanded no changes and would not relent an inch. I expect the actions of the BMA will accelerate privatisation of the NHS under this government and the next, this is what happens when unions demand and do not compromise, everything needs to change around them to lessen their grip. What you will take away from this is that I'm anti union, I'm not if the union is run well for its members, I am if the union is politically motivated and doesn't care how much damage is does to the country. I didn't say they were, you didn't specify what the 'reforms' where.. The BMA as a representative body is to look after the best interests of their members which of course will involve compromise etc, the members have the right to replace those representing them if they don't do that so one Dan assume the members are happy yes? The BMA are hardly radical so the tired old cliché of damaging the country is a facile generalisation.. They're at the coal face literally and want the best service for all and for their members and that's fine.. Privatisation has been a mess for the railways, water and energy but hey profit profit profit.. " You have a view on the proposed reforms but don't know what the reforms are? "Reform.. That old word that all governments trot out when they want to dangle a carrot but in reality means a worsening of conditions and I say that from experience" I will leave it there | |||
"You constantly slate doctors etc who were left behind by the last government in wanting to address some of the shortfall they took under Osborne.. Junior doctors were never left behind.. In 2016, the government offered them an 11% basic pay rise. The BMA chose to walk away from negotiations rather than consider any type of reform, which again can be seen as holding back progress and service improvements for the public. Junior doctors also continued to receive annual pay rises even during the years when other sectors saw freezes, and during the time they were in dispute. As for the BMA, they showed their true colours when they were awarded their pot of money, sending out messages to organise another strike for the next year... Reform.. That old word that all governments trot out when they want to dangle a carrot but in reality means a worsening of conditions and I say that from experience.. After six years I wonder if the 11 % (and for how many years ahead with no other pay claims) equalled what they had taken from them? If you consider change to working patterns or processes as a negative for the employee and gain for the employer, how do you expect any public service to evolve with the needs of their customers, the public? It is common practice to enter negotiation from a point of compromise and agreement, the BMA never entered a negotiation in good faith, it demanded no changes and would not relent an inch. I expect the actions of the BMA will accelerate privatisation of the NHS under this government and the next, this is what happens when unions demand and do not compromise, everything needs to change around them to lessen their grip. What you will take away from this is that I'm anti union, I'm not if the union is run well for its members, I am if the union is politically motivated and doesn't care how much damage is does to the country. I didn't say they were, you didn't specify what the 'reforms' where.. The BMA as a representative body is to look after the best interests of their members which of course will involve compromise etc, the members have the right to replace those representing them if they don't do that so one Dan assume the members are happy yes? The BMA are hardly radical so the tired old cliché of damaging the country is a facile generalisation.. They're at the coal face literally and want the best service for all and for their members and that's fine.. Privatisation has been a mess for the railways, water and energy but hey profit profit profit.. " Not much accountability from the public at large for their self inflicted health problems, and the government scared to call them out. 25-30% of the nhs budget treating 25 million salad dodgers, 6 million smokers many with cancer and respiratory problems, 3 million recreational drug users, alcoholics and parents that can’t / can’t be bothered to cook and feed their children property. Add the government that want the tax and duties from alcohol, cigarettes and poor food and ingredients that contribute to obesity and malnutrition First World problems. | |||
"You constantly slate doctors etc who were left behind by the last government in wanting to address some of the shortfall they took under Osborne.. Junior doctors were never left behind.. In 2016, the government offered them an 11% basic pay rise. The BMA chose to walk away from negotiations rather than consider any type of reform, which again can be seen as holding back progress and service improvements for the public. Junior doctors also continued to receive annual pay rises even during the years when other sectors saw freezes, and during the time they were in dispute. As for the BMA, they showed their true colours when they were awarded their pot of money, sending out messages to organise another strike for the next year... Reform.. That old word that all governments trot out when they want to dangle a carrot but in reality means a worsening of conditions and I say that from experience.. After six years I wonder if the 11 % (and for how many years ahead with no other pay claims) equalled what they had taken from them? If you consider change to working patterns or processes as a negative for the employee and gain for the employer, how do you expect any public service to evolve with the needs of their customers, the public? It is common practice to enter negotiation from a point of compromise and agreement, the BMA never entered a negotiation in good faith, it demanded no changes and would not relent an inch. I expect the actions of the BMA will accelerate privatisation of the NHS under this government and the next, this is what happens when unions demand and do not compromise, everything needs to change around them to lessen their grip. What you will take away from this is that I'm anti union, I'm not if the union is run well for its members, I am if the union is politically motivated and doesn't care how much damage is does to the country. I didn't say they were, you didn't specify what the 'reforms' where.. The BMA as a representative body is to look after the best interests of their members which of course will involve compromise etc, the members have the right to replace those representing them if they don't do that so one Dan assume the members are happy yes? The BMA are hardly radical so the tired old cliché of damaging the country is a facile generalisation.. They're at the coal face literally and want the best service for all and for their members and that's fine.. Privatisation has been a mess for the railways, water and energy but hey profit profit profit.. You have a view on the proposed reforms but don't know what the reforms are? "Reform.. That old word that all governments trot out when they want to dangle a carrot but in reality means a worsening of conditions and I say that from experience" I will leave it there "Changes in working conditions and working patterns are pretty much always to the detriment of the employee.. I don't need to know the full proposals presented as a lever to benefit one side when the issue is about fair pay and making up a deficit imposed by those in Westminster who did very well in the same period.. I stand by what I've seen and experienced from a front line public service despite what someone else thinks.. Financial sector for you is it?  | |||
"You constantly slate doctors etc who were left behind by the last government in wanting to address some of the shortfall they took under Osborne.. Junior doctors were never left behind.. In 2016, the government offered them an 11% basic pay rise. The BMA chose to walk away from negotiations rather than consider any type of reform, which again can be seen as holding back progress and service improvements for the public. Junior doctors also continued to receive annual pay rises even during the years when other sectors saw freezes, and during the time they were in dispute. As for the BMA, they showed their true colours when they were awarded their pot of money, sending out messages to organise another strike for the next year... Reform.. That old word that all governments trot out when they want to dangle a carrot but in reality means a worsening of conditions and I say that from experience.. After six years I wonder if the 11 % (and for how many years ahead with no other pay claims) equalled what they had taken from them? If you consider change to working patterns or processes as a negative for the employee and gain for the employer, how do you expect any public service to evolve with the needs of their customers, the public? It is common practice to enter negotiation from a point of compromise and agreement, the BMA never entered a negotiation in good faith, it demanded no changes and would not relent an inch. I expect the actions of the BMA will accelerate privatisation of the NHS under this government and the next, this is what happens when unions demand and do not compromise, everything needs to change around them to lessen their grip. What you will take away from this is that I'm anti union, I'm not if the union is run well for its members, I am if the union is politically motivated and doesn't care how much damage is does to the country. I didn't say they were, you didn't specify what the 'reforms' where.. The BMA as a representative body is to look after the best interests of their members which of course will involve compromise etc, the members have the right to replace those representing them if they don't do that so one Dan assume the members are happy yes? The BMA are hardly radical so the tired old cliché of damaging the country is a facile generalisation.. They're at the coal face literally and want the best service for all and for their members and that's fine.. Privatisation has been a mess for the railways, water and energy but hey profit profit profit.. You have a view on the proposed reforms but don't know what the reforms are? "Reform.. That old word that all governments trot out when they want to dangle a carrot but in reality means a worsening of conditions and I say that from experience" I will leave it there
Changes in working conditions and working patterns are pretty much always to the detriment of the employee..
I don't need to know the full proposals presented as a lever to benefit one side when the issue is about fair pay and making up a deficit imposed by those in Westminster who did very well in the same period..
I stand by what I've seen and experienced from a front line public service despite what someone else thinks..
Financial sector for you is it? "M&A. You don't think the BMA are radical? Leaked messages: Dr Laurenson, wrote after the labour pay award was accepted: “I would consider striking with a low threshold for 2025/26 when Labour’s honeymoon period ends and they make some sort of mistake that leaves them politically vulnerable.” Another: JDC chair Dr Johann Malawana urged the group to draw the dispute "right out", supported by "punctuated (industrial action) for a prolonged period" to tie the Department of Health up "in knots for the next 16-18 months". Another: Former JDC chair and executive member Kitty Mohan meanwhile told the group in December that weekend pay was "the only real red line" that "99% of juniors told us they were upset about". That contradicted the JDC's long-running public claims that the dispute was about "safety, not pay". The BMA and JDC are liars, they played a game at the expense of the health of millions of people who needed their services. They got what they wanted, and going forward will play the labour party as fools too, much like the public who felt the real impact of this underhand political interference. | |||
" Do you know what damage they did to the country or are you really going to brush over that and throw in a splash of whataboutey? You have proven my point, other countries did and do manage to have unions they can work with. The unions here should learn a lesson from them and stop holding the country to ransom whilst holding back progress in so many crucial services. However realistically, why would they bother? Labour walked in and handed them everything they wanted and more for being a ball and chain around the last government. Blaming Brexit and covid for the country being in a mess is fair for a blip in recent history, but minor over the longterm. " I don't care to argue about trade unions because like I said you're bias about it, but more importantly it's not relevant to the point that I made which you derailed for some reason. | |||
"You constantly slate doctors etc who were left behind by the last government in wanting to address some of the shortfall they took under Osborne.. Junior doctors were never left behind.. In 2016, the government offered them an 11% basic pay rise. The BMA chose to walk away from negotiations rather than consider any type of reform, which again can be seen as holding back progress and service improvements for the public. Junior doctors also continued to receive annual pay rises even during the years when other sectors saw freezes, and during the time they were in dispute. As for the BMA, they showed their true colours when they were awarded their pot of money, sending out messages to organise another strike for the next year... Reform.. That old word that all governments trot out when they want to dangle a carrot but in reality means a worsening of conditions and I say that from experience.. After six years I wonder if the 11 % (and for how many years ahead with no other pay claims) equalled what they had taken from them? If you consider change to working patterns or processes as a negative for the employee and gain for the employer, how do you expect any public service to evolve with the needs of their customers, the public? It is common practice to enter negotiation from a point of compromise and agreement, the BMA never entered a negotiation in good faith, it demanded no changes and would not relent an inch. I expect the actions of the BMA will accelerate privatisation of the NHS under this government and the next, this is what happens when unions demand and do not compromise, everything needs to change around them to lessen their grip. What you will take away from this is that I'm anti union, I'm not if the union is run well for its members, I am if the union is politically motivated and doesn't care how much damage is does to the country. I didn't say they were, you didn't specify what the 'reforms' where.. The BMA as a representative body is to look after the best interests of their members which of course will involve compromise etc, the members have the right to replace those representing them if they don't do that so one Dan assume the members are happy yes? The BMA are hardly radical so the tired old cliché of damaging the country is a facile generalisation.. They're at the coal face literally and want the best service for all and for their members and that's fine.. Privatisation has been a mess for the railways, water and energy but hey profit profit profit.. You have a view on the proposed reforms but don't know what the reforms are? "Reform.. That old word that all governments trot out when they want to dangle a carrot but in reality means a worsening of conditions and I say that from experience" I will leave it there
Changes in working conditions and working patterns are pretty much always to the detriment of the employee..
I don't need to know the full proposals presented as a lever to benefit one side when the issue is about fair pay and making up a deficit imposed by those in Westminster who did very well in the same period..
I stand by what I've seen and experienced from a front line public service despite what someone else thinks..
Financial sector for you is it?
M&A.
You don't think the BMA are radical?
Leaked messages:
Dr Laurenson, wrote after the labour pay award was accepted: “I would consider striking with a low threshold for 2025/26 when Labour’s honeymoon period ends and they make some sort of mistake that leaves them politically vulnerable.”
Another: JDC chair Dr Johann Malawana urged the group to draw the dispute "right out", supported by "punctuated (industrial action) for a prolonged period" to tie the Department of Health up "in knots for the next 16-18 months".
Another: Former JDC chair and executive member Kitty Mohan meanwhile told the group in December that weekend pay was "the only real red line" that "99% of juniors told us they were upset about".
That contradicted the JDC's long-running public claims that the dispute was about "safety, not pay".
The BMA and JDC are liars, they played a game at the expense of the health of millions of people who needed their services. They got what they wanted, and going forward will play the labour party as fools too, much like the public who felt the real impact of this underhand political interference. "That's not radical, not like some used to be.. | |||
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" ... Only Reform UK will kickstart and or reopen British industry. They will stop foreign trawlers from fishing our waters. They will stop foreign aid and pay for the winter fuel benefits for pensioners. Look after our veterans ahead of immigrants on every level. Stop the flying of foreign flags outside our public buildings. There is more but I haven’t time to type it all." Sounds idyllic, no doubt, to their supporters but how do you know with any certainty that they will actually stick by their promises? After all, they are only politicians and not really likely to be altruists. | |||
"BREXIT provided us with a way out of this decline. Unfortunately we never had a government that even wanted to implement out leavingm nothe EU in any kind of a positive way. Just like the shower of 💩 we have in place right now. They are/were all remainers. The LibDims are even worse and must be ridiculed at every opportunity.j Only Reform UK will kickstart and or reopen British industry. They will stop foreign trawlers from fishing our waters. They will stop foreign aid and pay for the winter fuel benefits for pensioners. Look after our veterans ahead of immigrants on every level. Stop the flying of foreign flags outside our public buildings. There is more but I haven’t time to type it all." You really should be getting a wage for the PR you do for the party. I'm sure your big pal Nige will see you right if ye ask nicely | |||
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"BREXIT provided us with a way out of this decline. Unfortunately we never had a government that even wanted to implement out leavingm nothe EU in any kind of a positive way. Just like the shower of 💩 we have in place right now. They are/were all remainers. The LibDims are even worse and must be ridiculed at every opportunity.j Only Reform UK will kickstart and or reopen British industry. They will stop foreign trawlers from fishing our waters. They will stop foreign aid and pay for the winter fuel benefits for pensioners. Look after our veterans ahead of immigrants on every level. Stop the flying of foreign flags outside our public buildings. There is more but I haven’t time to type it all." Nah, a Reform/Farage government would follow exactly the same pattern as Trump II : a lot of sabre rattling, followed by ill-thought-out legislation and then hasty back-tracking. | |||
"BREXIT provided us with a way out of this decline. Unfortunately we never had a government that even wanted to implement out leavingm nothe EU in any kind of a positive way. Just like the shower of 💩 we have in place right now. They are/were all remainers. The LibDims are even worse and must be ridiculed at every opportunity.j Only Reform UK will kickstart and or reopen British industry. They will stop foreign trawlers from fishing our waters. They will stop foreign aid and pay for the winter fuel benefits for pensioners. Look after our veterans ahead of immigrants on every level. Stop the flying of foreign flags outside our public buildings. There is more but I haven’t time to type it all. Nah, a Reform/Farage government would follow exactly the same pattern as Trump II : a lot of sabre rattling, followed by ill-thought-out legislation and then hasty back-tracking. " That’s how I see it as well, albeit the UK only has a little sabre to rattle these days. | |||
" ... But let's face it things need to change so why not give someone new a chance." Was that the thinking which brought about the rise of Hitler? | |||
"BREXIT provided us with a way out of this decline. Unfortunately we never had a government that even wanted to implement out leavingm nothe EU in any kind of a positive way. Just like the shower of 💩 we have in place right now. They are/were all remainers. The LibDims are even worse and must be ridiculed at every opportunity.j Only Reform UK will kickstart and or reopen British industry. They will stop foreign trawlers from fishing our waters. They will stop foreign aid and pay for the winter fuel benefits for pensioners. Look after our veterans ahead of immigrants on every level. Stop the flying of foreign flags outside our public buildings. There is more but I haven’t time to type it all. Nah, a Reform/Farage government would follow exactly the same pattern as Trump II : a lot of sabre rattling, followed by ill-thought-out legislation and then hasty back-tracking. " But surely under farage there will be 1950s style concerts in the parks of the land where playing land of hope and glory will inspire us all ..? But yes, agree with what you say.. Another populist gobshite like Boris who will be found grossly wanting might await.. | |||
" ... But let's face it things need to change so why not give someone new a chance. Was that the thinking which brought about the rise of Hitler? " Get a grip! There is no comparison what so ever with what's going on now compared to then! 🙄 | |||
" ... But let's face it things need to change so why not give someone new a chance. Was that the thinking which brought about the rise of Hitler? " I'd of thought someone of your age group would have more sense than to even say something like that! Disgraceful | |||
" ... But let's face it things need to change so why not give someone new a chance. Was that the thinking which brought about the rise of Hitler? I'd of thought someone of your age group would have more sense than to even say something like that! Disgraceful " Well, you might ideed 'of' but with my age comes the wisdom not to get swayed by glib orators! | |||
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" ... But let's face it things need to change so why not give someone new a chance. Was that the thinking which brought about the rise of Hitler? I'd of thought someone of your age group would have more sense than to even say something like that! Disgraceful Well, you might ideed 'of' but with my age comes the wisdom not to get swayed by glib orators!" And the stupidity to mention Hitler in a situation that has zero similarities is indeed very wise lol That's just using an extreme and horrific time in history as a ridiculous attempt to try and make some kind of point! I get it you don't like change but maybe get off your high horse and admit it's not all sunshine and rainbows here and it's getting worse and Hitler is irrelevant in this conversation. Bringing up a disgusting human being like that in this situation is an insult to all the poor soles who lost their lives in death camps etc! Please think before you type such nonsense. | |||
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" ... But let's face it things need to change so why not give someone new a chance. Was that the thinking which brought about the rise of Hitler? I'd of thought someone of your age group would have more sense than to even say something like that! Disgraceful Well, you might ideed 'of' but with my age comes the wisdom not to get swayed by glib orators! And the stupidity to mention Hitler in a situation that has zero similarities is indeed very wise lol That's just using an extreme and horrific time in history as a ridiculous attempt to try and make some kind of point! I get it you don't like change but maybe get off your high horse and admit it's not all sunshine and rainbows here and it's getting worse and Hitler is irrelevant in this conversation. Bringing up a disgusting human being like that in this situation is an insult to all the poor soles who lost their lives in death camps etc! Please think before you type such nonsense." The person your getting angry about is correct in what he says, yes you don't like that he used Hitler as an example but history is littered with other tyrants who someone gave a chance to because they were different.. The modus operandi of such things has been pretty much the same since before the Romans.. An unpopular government or leader, hard economic times, an easy scapegoat to blame and deflect because they are different, a person or party that says they have the answers and incites division and then attacks upon the scapegoats.. The rise in nationalism.. Persecution.. Conflict.. Etc etc.. There's very real reasons why we need to learn the mistakes from history.. | |||
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"We live in very different times! Certain things that happened in the past will not be allowed to happen again. So many soldiers lost there lives fighting for our freedom and to show things of that nature will not be tolerated! I'm not behind any particular party nor am I down with the left or right bs all I said was things clearly need to change! And clever clogs brings up Hitler lol" No we don't sadly, even recent history shows us in Uganda,Rwanda, the Balkans, Iraq.. Not sure why your getting angry with anyone because the evidence is there.. Tyrants and dictatorships use any side or none and those are the lessons we ignore at our peril.. | |||
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"No one's angry I just don't see the comparison from nazi Germany and Hitler to the UK right now. " If you weren't the so busy riding your own 'high horse',you might just realise that the purpose of my post was to point out how electorates can easily be led by politicians when a perceived need for change starts to gather momentum. Personally, I dont think I could have provided a better example. How you can read that as meaning that I am suggesting a similarity between how life is in Britain now and life in Nazi Germany then is beyond me. The simple point I am making is how easily politicians can lead the bewildered population up the garden path. Need I also remind you that the UK population is still suffering from having been duped in order to further someone's political ambition fairly recently? | |||
"The thing is that patriotism is dirty word and nationalism is even worse. A patriotic party that wants to improve things for British people will always be accused of being Nazis by those with the opposite agenda. It is of course ridiculous, but hey ho! Now that Reform UK is winning things, the usual suspects are delivering the usual squeaks and squawks. In the past they would cast doubt on whomever they targeted with their shite. Now however most can see through it, and they have heard it all before. The likes of hope not soap are redundant now. Thank god. It’s time for a real change, and for once a new government that will put the British people first. ". With policies and strategies that are honest, clear and encompassing all of government responsibilities. They're a bit thin on the ground just now | |||
"No one's angry I just don't see the comparison from nazi Germany and Hitler to the UK right now. If you weren't the so busy riding your own 'high horse',you might just realise that the purpose of my post was to point out how electorates can easily be led by politicians when a perceived need for change starts to gather momentum. Personally, I dont think I could have provided a better example. How you can read that as meaning that I am suggesting a similarity between how life is in Britain now and life in Nazi Germany then is beyond me. The simple point I am making is how easily politicians can lead the bewildered population up the garden path. Need I also remind you that the UK population is still suffering from having been duped in order to further someone's political ambition fairly recently?" Last comment on this I promise lol With the other person mentioning different wars and dictator's after your Hitler comment it did seem like someone was trying to compare the two so forgive me if I did get the wrong impression. Ps Not all change is bad and you don't have to remind me of anything! Just keep hating on and blaming one guy for the counties problems. | |||
"The thing is that patriotism is dirty word and nationalism is even worse. A patriotic party that wants to improve things for British people will always be accused of being Nazis. " Patriotism is fine and being proud of the achievements of our Nation is absolutely also fine (whilst recognising that like all empires etc we have treated some others badly and as we see with the infected blood, institutional abuse even such things as the post office) we still should strive to be better for all.. Nationalism has been hijacked by some who seek to use it to divide and then cry 'foul and you lot are anti British' when they cross the line and are held to account.. | |||
"No one's angry I just don't see the comparison from nazi Germany and Hitler to the UK right now. If you weren't the so busy riding your own 'high horse',you might just realise that the purpose of my post was to point out how electorates can easily be led by politicians when a perceived need for change starts to gather momentum. Personally, I dont think I could have provided a better example. How you can read that as meaning that I am suggesting a similarity between how life is in Britain now and life in Nazi Germany then is beyond me. The simple point I am making is how easily politicians can lead the bewildered population up the garden path. Need I also remind you that the UK population is still suffering from having been duped in order to further someone's political ambition fairly recently? Last comment on this I promise lol With the other person mentioning different wars and dictator's after your Hitler comment it did seem like someone was trying to compare the two so forgive me if I did get the wrong impression. Ps Not all change is bad and you don't have to remind me of anything! Just keep hating on and blaming one guy for the counties problems. " The other guy was trying to indicate just how in other countries apart from pre war Germany just how a so called civilised society can degenerate into sectarianism and genocide.. No one is saying we are anywhere near those examples but the seeds are easily sown and when the situation is right it doesn't take much to kick off, then accelerate.. I didn't make any comparisons between any other country.. | |||
"And what exact are their plans to make Britain better? I know they say they will stop people coming on boats across the channel and turn the NHS into a US style health service because I have heard their leader say so. But I have not heard how they intend to stop the boats.... Their answer from what I can tell seems to be that by magically taking away your human rights puerile will stop coming and leave the country." Which human rights do you think Reform want to remove from us? "Their leader also said we would take control of our borders after Brexit and it would improve the country... What happened there then..." That might have happened if he'd got elected. You can't blame Nigel for not being able to deliver stuff if you chose someone else to lead the country. | |||
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"And what exact are their plans to make Britain better? I know they say they will stop people coming on boats across the channel and turn the NHS into a US style health service because I have heard their leader say so. But I have not heard how they intend to stop the boats.... Their answer from what I can tell seems to be that by magically taking away your human rights puerile will stop coming and leave the country. Which human rights do you think Reform want to remove from us? Their leader also said we would take control of our borders after Brexit and it would improve the country... What happened there then... That might have happened if he'd got elected. You can't blame Nigel for not being able to deliver stuff if you chose someone else to lead the country." Exactly that! But I suppose some people just need a scapegoat. I'm not saying he's going to fix everything because let's face it there's a lot to fix from his predecessors but at this point maybe some new blood won't be such a bad thing. | |||
"And what exact are their plans to make Britain better? I know they say they will stop people coming on boats across the channel and turn the NHS into a US style health service because I have heard their leader say so. But I have not heard how they intend to stop the boats.... Their answer from what I can tell seems to be that by magically taking away your human rights puerile will stop coming and leave the country. Which human rights do you think Reform want to remove from us? " He said in an interview just last week that the very first thing he would do as PM would leave the ECHR and repeal the human rights act. | |||
"And what exact are their plans to make Britain better? I know they say they will stop people coming on boats across the channel and turn the NHS into a US style health service because I have heard their leader say so. But I have not heard how they intend to stop the boats. Their leader also said we would take control of our borders after Brexit and it would improve the country... What happened there then... That might have happened if he'd got elected. You can't blame Nigel for not being able to deliver stuff if you chose someone else to lead the country." But he said that stuff knowing that there was zero chance that he would not be PM and would be no where near the negotiations. I personally believed that the negotiation team should have been a cross party team and not just the government. Farage still would not have been involved though as I think they only had 1 MP at the time. I didn't, but people did vote for Johnson who had an "oven ready deal" 🤣🤣 | |||
"And what exact are their plans to make Britain better? I know they say they will stop people coming on boats across the channel and turn the NHS into a US style health service because I have heard their leader say so. But I have not heard how they intend to stop the boats.... Their answer from what I can tell seems to be that by magically taking away your human rights puerile will stop coming and leave the country. Which human rights do you think Reform want to remove from us? He said in an interview just last week that the very first thing he would do as PM would leave the ECHR and repeal the human rights act. " That’s not removing human rights, that’s removing external governance. Removing ourselves from the human rights act and leaving the ECHR doesn’t mean our rights disappear. It means they would be defined and governed by UK law and UK courts, rather than a foreign court. That leans into Farage's solution for stopping the boats. By removing ourselves from that we can then rewrite our own refugee convention and modernise it by removing the loopholes that are being exploited. | |||
"And what exact are their plans to make Britain better? I know they say they will stop people coming on boats across the channel and turn the NHS into a US style health service because I have heard their leader say so. But I have not heard how they intend to stop the boats.... Their answer from what I can tell seems to be that by magically taking away your human rights puerile will stop coming and leave the country. Which human rights do you think Reform want to remove from us? He said in an interview just last week that the very first thing he would do as PM would leave the ECHR and repeal the human rights act. That’s not removing human rights, that’s removing external governance. Removing ourselves from the human rights act and leaving the ECHR doesn’t mean our rights disappear. It means they would be defined and governed by UK law and UK courts, rather than a foreign court. That leans into Farage's solution for stopping the boats. By removing ourselves from that we can then rewrite our own refugee convention and modernise it by removing the loopholes that are being exploited. " He also mentioned removing the human rights act.... Yes the UK human rights act.... | |||
"And what exact are their plans to make Britain better? I know they say they will stop people coming on boats across the channel and turn the NHS into a US style health service because I have heard their leader say so. But I have not heard how they intend to stop the boats.... Their answer from what I can tell seems to be that by magically taking away your human rights puerile will stop coming and leave the country." "Which human rights do you think Reform want to remove from us?" "He said in an interview just last week that the very first thing he would do as PM would leave the ECHR and repeal the human rights act." Can you point me to a quote? I can find several reports of him saying that he would leave the ECHR, but I can't find any quotes of him saying that he'd repeal the Human Rights Act. | |||
"And what exact are their plans to make Britain better? I know they say they will stop people coming on boats across the channel and turn the NHS into a US style health service because I have heard their leader say so. But I have not heard how they intend to stop the boats.... Their answer from what I can tell seems to be that by magically taking away your human rights puerile will stop coming and leave the country. Which human rights do you think Reform want to remove from us? He said in an interview just last week that the very first thing he would do as PM would leave the ECHR and repeal the human rights act. That’s not removing human rights, that’s removing external governance. Removing ourselves from the human rights act and leaving the ECHR doesn’t mean our rights disappear. It means they would be defined and governed by UK law and UK courts, rather than a foreign court. That leans into Farage's solution for stopping the boats. By removing ourselves from that we can then rewrite our own refugee convention and modernise it by removing the loopholes that are being exploited. He also mentioned removing the human rights act.... Yes the UK human rights act.... " Replace with a British Bill of Rights, which makes sense if we were to leave ECHR, we need our own. | |||
"And what exact are their plans to make Britain better? I know they say they will stop people coming on boats across the channel and turn the NHS into a US style health service because I have heard their leader say so. But I have not heard how they intend to stop the boats.... Their answer from what I can tell seems to be that by magically taking away your human rights puerile will stop coming and leave the country. Which human rights do you think Reform want to remove from us? He said in an interview just last week that the very first thing he would do as PM would leave the ECHR and repeal the human rights act. That’s not removing human rights, that’s removing external governance. Removing ourselves from the human rights act and leaving the ECHR doesn’t mean our rights disappear. It means they would be defined and governed by UK law and UK courts, rather than a foreign court. That leans into Farage's solution for stopping the boats. By removing ourselves from that we can then rewrite our own refugee convention and modernise it by removing the loopholes that are being exploited. He also mentioned removing the human rights act.... Yes the UK human rights act.... Replace with a British Bill of Rights, which makes sense if we were to leave ECHR, we need our own." We already have a bill if rights for the free man, the magna Carta. | |||
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"We already have a bill if rights for the free man, the magna Carta." The Magna Carta has been almost entirely repealed. Even if it hadn't been, it only gave rights to nobles, and did not apply to the common man. | |||
"And what exact are their plans to make Britain better? I know they say they will stop people coming on boats across the channel and turn the NHS into a US style health service because I have heard their leader say so. But I have not heard how they intend to stop the boats.... Their answer from what I can tell seems to be that by magically taking away your human rights puerile will stop coming and leave the country. Which human rights do you think Reform want to remove from us? He said in an interview just last week that the very first thing he would do as PM would leave the ECHR and repeal the human rights act. Can you point me to a quote? I can find several reports of him saying that he would leave the ECHR, but I can't find any quotes of him saying that he'd repeal the Human Rights Act." my bad... It was the EU human rights act.... Which has never even existed... He is a smart guy. | |||
"And what exact are their plans to make Britain better? I know they say they will stop people coming on boats across the channel and turn the NHS into a US style health service because I have heard their leader say so. But I have not heard how they intend to stop the boats.... Their answer from what I can tell seems to be that by magically taking away your human rights puerile will stop coming and leave the country. Which human rights do you think Reform want to remove from us? He said in an interview just last week that the very first thing he would do as PM would leave the ECHR and repeal the human rights act. That’s not removing human rights, that’s removing external governance. Removing ourselves from the human rights act and leaving the ECHR doesn’t mean our rights disappear. It means they would be defined and governed by UK law and UK courts, rather than a foreign court. That leans into Farage's solution for stopping the boats. By removing ourselves from that we can then rewrite our own refugee convention and modernise it by removing the loopholes that are being exploited. He also mentioned removing the human rights act.... Yes the UK human rights act.... Replace with a British Bill of Rights, which makes sense if we were to leave ECHR, we need our own. We already have a bill if rights for the free man, the magna Carta." 😂 | |||
"It is a crap hole." Maybe your bit is | |||
"And what exact are their plans to make Britain better? I know they say they will stop people coming on boats across the channel and turn the NHS into a US style health service because I have heard their leader say so. But I have not heard how they intend to stop the boats.... Their answer from what I can tell seems to be that by magically taking away your human rights puerile will stop coming and leave the country. Which human rights do you think Reform want to remove from us? He said in an interview just last week that the very first thing he would do as PM would leave the ECHR and repeal the human rights act. That’s not removing human rights, that’s removing external governance. Removing ourselves from the human rights act and leaving the ECHR doesn’t mean our rights disappear. It means they would be defined and governed by UK law and UK courts, rather than a foreign court. That leans into Farage's solution for stopping the boats. By removing ourselves from that we can then rewrite our own refugee convention and modernise it by removing the loopholes that are being exploited. He also mentioned removing the human rights act.... Yes the UK human rights act.... Replace with a British Bill of Rights, which makes sense if we were to leave ECHR, we need our own. We already have a bill if rights for the free man, the magna Carta." I know a lot of reform voters like to think they are in a crusade but the magna carta being relevant takes the biscuit. | |||
"We already have a bill if rights for the free man, the magna Carta. The Magna Carta has been almost entirely repealed. Even if it hadn't been, it only gave rights to nobles, and did not apply to the common man." A Freeman is not a s lave, and a s lave is a Freeman when they are released by the governor. Rule Britannia Shall never never be s laves, ie all freeman. | |||
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"We already have a bill if rights for the free man, the magna Carta. The Magna Carta has been almost entirely repealed. Even if it hadn't been, it only gave rights to nobles, and did not apply to the common man. A Freeman is not a s lave, and a s lave is a Freeman when they are released by the governor. Rule Britannia Shall never never be s laves, ie all freeman." Britannia? Well the magna carta only applied to England any way so not sure what Britannia has to do with it. | |||
"We already have a bill if rights for the free man, the magna Carta. The Magna Carta has been almost entirely repealed. Even if it hadn't been, it only gave rights to nobles, and did not apply to the common man. A Freeman is not a s lave, and a s lave is a Freeman when they are released by the governor. Rule Britannia Shall never never be s laves, ie all freeman. Britannia? Well the magna carta only applied to England any way so not sure what Britannia has to do with it." But other countries use and rely on the magna Carta, the USA for just one case in example their constitution their bill of rights and the rule of law. | |||
"We already have a bill if rights for the free man, the magna Carta. The Magna Carta has been almost entirely repealed. Even if it hadn't been, it only gave rights to nobles, and did not apply to the common man. A Freeman is not a s lave, and a s lave is a Freeman when they are released by the governor. Rule Britannia Shall never never be s laves, ie all freeman. Britannia? Well the magna carta only applied to England any way so not sure what Britannia has to do with it. But other countries use and rely on the magna Carta, the USA for just one case in example their constitution their bill of rights and the rule of law. "Yes they used the magna carta as insisting while making the original laws of the USA....because many of the sellers there believed they were English men. | |||
"A Freeman is not a s lave, and a s lave is a Freeman when they are released by the governor." That's not from the Magna Carta. And no part of the UK has ever recognised slavery, except to ban it. | |||
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"There’s some YouTubers that visit migrant hotels and try to interview the occupants. They very often say the UK is perfect. One I watched last night said he is expecting a free house so he can bring his family over. They asked him what he would do if the UK wasn’t giving away feee houses and he said he would go somewhere else where they do. " Meanwhile so many people born and bred in the UK can't get housed even after years on the council list and actively bidding ever week | |||
"I mean, it is silly to insult the DVLA when they're not involved with private car parking firms taking the piss. But some people would be assholes regardless 💜" In my experience the DVLA gives out our personal data without properly checking the recipient has fulfilled the requirements of the DVLA's own contract. As a consequence the requirements of the Data Protection Acts are not being met. The DVLA are, through maladministration and the desire to make money selling our personal data, contributing towards the unethical, if not illegal, activities of car parking sharks. We should call for a Judicial Review of the DVLA's conduct. | |||
"In my experience the DVLA gives out our personal data without properly checking the recipient has fulfilled the requirements of the DVLA's own contract. As a consequence the requirements of the Data Protection Acts are not being met." The 'contact' that DVLA has with the populace says that they should supply ownership details to anyone that has "reasonable cause" to know them. If you use your vehicle to inconvenience anyone, in any way, that person has the right to access your name and address. "The DVLA are, through maladministration and the desire to make money selling our personal data, contributing towards the unethical, if not illegal, activities of car parking sharks." Can you give us any examples of the DVLA selling personal data? | |||
"In my experience the DVLA gives out our personal data without properly checking the recipient has fulfilled the requirements of the DVLA's own contract. As a consequence the requirements of the Data Protection Acts are not being met. The 'contact' that DVLA has with the populace says that they should supply ownership details to anyone that has "reasonable cause" to know them. If you use your vehicle to inconvenience anyone, in any way, that person has the right to access your name and address. ** Clause B7.2 of the KADOE agreement states. "B7.2. The Customer shall ensure before relying on any item of Data that the Data provided matches the information in the request (for example, so that the model, type and colour of the vehicle match) and shall not seek to recover payment where the Data provided does not match the vehicle information in the request." In my experience a Customer sought to recover payment where the car in question was not the same as mine, did not have the same registration number and the event occured in a town I have never been to. I pointed this out to the DVLA management and they did nothing whatsoever about it. Hence the maladministration statement. I cannot believe considering the 1000s of accesses every day that my case is the only one in existence. The DVLA are, through maladministration and the desire to make money selling our personal data, contributing towards the unethical, if not illegal, activities of car parking sharks. Can you give us any examples of the DVLA selling personal data?" If anyone on Fab has ever received a letter from a Local Authority, a Police force or private entity concerning the registered keeper of a car they have received the data from the DVLA. The DVLA charge £2:50 for each vehicle for providing this information. Public services may be charged less or nothing at all. See https://kadoe.co.uk/ | |||
"** Clause B7.2 of the KADOE agreement states. "B7.2. The Customer shall ensure before relying on any item of Data that the Data provided matches the information in the request (for example, so that the model, type and colour of the vehicle match) and shall not seek to recover payment where the Data provided does not match the vehicle information in the request." In my experience a Customer sought to recover payment where the car in question was not the same as mine, did not have the same registration number and the event occured in a town I have never been to. I pointed this out to the DVLA management and they did nothing whatsoever about it." How do you know that they did nothing about it? If they had, the action would be with the company that issued the incorrect penalty charge, not you, and data protection rules mean that DVLA wouldn't be able to tell you if they'd initiated any action. "The DVLA are, through maladministration and the desire to make money selling our personal data ..." "Can you give us any examples of the DVLA selling personal data?" "If anyone on Fab has ever received a letter from a Local Authority, a Police force or private entity concerning the registered keeper of a car they have received the data from the DVLA. The DVLA charge £2:50 for each vehicle for providing this information." That's not selling personal data, that's making an access charge. The level of the charge must reflect the costs of making the data access, and DVLA are legally enjoined from making any money from this service. | |||
