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Something that bothers us...
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So to fellow Fab readers...we needed to get this off our chest. It's not really our place to say something directly is it? It's not our responsibility for members to play safe, BUT we feel an air of responsibility in now knowing this kind of thing is happening.
As a couple, we don't play with bi-men anyway, but this reason reinforces our need to be sure when meeting men.
Playing secretive games, living a lie on one site, and searching for bareback cock on another, can have horrible results for unwitting partners.
It's not for us to warn people about a particular member who may be more susceptible to picking up diseases - adults here should be responsible enough for their safety...we just feel concerned, it bothers us.
Are we over-reacting? Any thoughts from anyone would be nice to read, we have no problems with anyone's sexuality of course, and we would never invade someone's privacy by pointing, we just think that lies can lead to STD catastrophes in a place like this  | |||
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"The only persons sexual health you are, and can be responsible for is your own. For all I know I've met men who've bareback buggered the cast of the Lion King, but I reduce my own risk by insisting on a condom being worn and getting tested every couple of months or so. By the way (pun not intended), the whole point of bisexuality is that you can play with either (or both) sexes, so a bi guy playing straight is not deceiving anyone. he's just chosen to play with women at that time."  | |||
"Do you really know where anyone on here has been? It's up to each individual to recognise that, play safe and protect themselves. If they don't, more fool them. It's not your business though IMHO " totally agree with this.... To the op how sure are you when you play with a straight guy he us actually straight? Regarding the female you speak about, personally if we had any doubts the meet would not take place.  | |||
"Would you be as concerned if he was only having bareback with other women? " You may have missed the point completely. That's not the subject. He's saying he's straight to have sex with women, when he has a profile dedicated to taking men. It's a lie, so we find the trust issue raised again, ie what else is being lied about? But to answer you anyway, yes, our concern for people who play bareback defintely plays a factor in our choices, that's OUR sexual responsibility to be assertive of people who happily bareback, in relation to our criteria. But again, that's not the emphasis here. Diseases such as HIV, are alot more prevalent in homosexual intercourse, for men who take anal bareback, this is a fact, the anus is alot more susceptible to transmissions due to it's thin barrier. Gay men are among the highest risk group. Our concern stems from his lie, and his willingness to take anal bareback. | |||
"Do you really know where anyone on here has been? It's up to each individual to recognise that, play safe and protect themselves. If they don't, more fool them. It's not your business though IMHO " You're completely right, and because it's not our business, we didn't want to say anything at all to be honest, just felt burdened by it. Guess the best thing we can do is not meet the female he played with, and for us to just continue being safe! | |||
"I treat everyone I play with as if they have engaged in high risk behaviour. My sexual health is my priority. Therefore I do what I can to protect it. It is up to each responsible adult to take the same steps." We totally agree. It's because of this that we were paranoid of that chain, connecting dots, ie, him playing with men bareback, then him playing with her, then her playing with us... Scary to be honest! | |||
"I've said it before and I will say it again, if you have been on the scene any amount of time you will have played with a bi male or someone who barebacks there is no getting away from it. All you can do is make the best decisions for you." We definitely will continue making the best decisions for us personally, but being nice people we just thought we should warn, but even then, (being nice lol), we felt we were maybe overstepping the mark by even bringing it up 
We would never want to highlight anyone, just wanted to see if others share our concern too. It seems so widely and easily accepted. | |||
"The only persons sexual health you are, and can be responsible for is your own. For all I know I've met men who've bareback buggered the cast of the Lion King, but I reduce my own risk by insisting on a condom being worn and getting tested every couple of months or so. By the way (pun not intended), the whole point of bisexuality is that you can play with either (or both) sexes, so a bi guy playing straight is not deceiving anyone. he's just chosen to play with women at that time." Lol well said, and though we stay safe too, we still feel a bit bad that she doesn't know, and we do. But in this case, we disagree with the latter, as the user has deceived others, and her; He isn't listed as bi on this site, which is where they communicated too. She has a problem in meeting bi men. He is listed here as fully straight. His other profile is only seeking men. That's deception to us. | |||
It is up to people to look after themselves. We are all adults on here, and responsible for our own sexual health, and in judging the risk we take.
On balance, what good is telling her really going to do? | |||
"But in this case, we disagree with the latter, as the user has deceived others, and her; He isn't listed as bi on this site, which is where they communicated too. She has a problem in meeting bi men. He is listed here as fully straight. His other profile is only seeking men. That's deception to us." Its the risk you take in our lifestyle. If you're not going to tell her about it then why worry? If she has any sense she will be using protection anyway. | |||
"Not sure if your over reacting but maybe your being a little naive. Not everyone is who or what they claim to be even in the real world. As for being put off by a club because of bi play, I be seen bi play at every club I've been to and people don't generally judge." Naive, possibly yes! We always play safe, and have strict criteria, but it's not the scene for us to be gullible in! Eye opener for us definitely. Thanks for the replies
As for the club, this could apply to any club, so it's not that we're put off this club specifically, but by going to one at all.
There's a specific bi night for bi men to see women, men & couples, but this meet was not at the bi night, so it just made us think, how many gay/bi men are attending non-bi events? Etc.
We don't judge either, everybody has a right to their sexual preferences. We don't have an issue with the ACT of bi play at all. It's rather the consequences we are paranoid about.
In fact, if we saw bi men playing at a club, we'd be happier, because we've seen it, and openly know that the male plays with other males! Unlike the guy who lies about it, meeting women he knows do not want bi or gay men, we find that disrespectful, and alarming. Unprotected sex is not a joke, but this man obviously doesn't take his health or other peoples seriously. | |||
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"Do you really know where anyone on here has been? It's up to each individual to recognise that, play safe and protect themselves. If they don't, more fool them. It's not your business though IMHO totally agree with this.... To the op how sure are you when you play with a straight guy he us actually straight? Regarding the female you speak about, personally if we had any doubts the meet would not take place. "No, you're right. We'll never know where anyone has actually been. It's not our business but we can counter that by being safe. We guess we just expected people to be a little more open about whether they are bi or gay or straight, as this is a sex site, and not many here will judge, it seems a great community. | |||
"Niave to think people don't lie..." | |||
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"Its the internet... of course everyone is completely honest on here.
It is up to people to look after themselves. We are all adults on here, and responsible for our own sexual health, and in judging the risk we take.
On balance, what good is telling her really going to do?"Yeah. We thought if we tell her, then she might be more careful, it might stop or at least slow any potential transmissions in their circle of meets. Maybe that's just wishful thinking. Just don't want anyone catching anything horrible through deception and lies. We know the answer is always to use protection. | |||
"You sure it's even their profile? Could be someone has made a malicious profile to slander them." Yeah that happens, and we actually thought that may be the case aswell, but then the pictures are evidence of his actions, his face isn't blurred in any, regardless of whether he uploaded them or not, plus both websites have photo-verified him. Of course, you could still be right, wouldn't surprise us to be honest, the way people are | |||
"But in this case, we disagree with the latter, as the user has deceived others, and her; He isn't listed as bi on this site, which is where they communicated too. She has a problem in meeting bi men. He is listed here as fully straight. His other profile is only seeking men. That's deception to us. Its the risk you take in our lifestyle. If you're not going to tell her about it then why worry? If she has any sense she will be using protection anyway." Yeah, she should be using protection. The worry just came from feeling guilty, of knowing she specifically did not want men who play with men...and he approached her, despite his background / her rules. She seemed nice, polite, friendly, kind, genuine. But she's played unknowingly with a guy who let's strangers cum inside him, so we stopped talking with her suddenly, as we won't risk meeting her. That's all. Just natural guilt made us a little uncomfortable, so we came here for a talk. | |||
"You sure it's even their profile? Could be someone has made a malicious profile to slander them. Yeah that happens, and we actually thought that may be the case aswell, but then the pictures are evidence of his actions, his face isn't blurred in any, regardless of whether he uploaded them or not, plus both websites have photo-verified him. Of course, you could still be right, wouldn't surprise us to be honest, the way people are "I would mention you've seen this profile to the person. You might be right with your assumptions but if someone has it in for them then they have the right to know that. The police can prosecute, have had this happen to a neighbour and she got them prosecuted. There are ways of finding out if its the same person yourself, via messages, if you can log their IP address and if they use the same device and connection on both sites. | |||
"But in this case, we disagree with the latter, as the user has deceived others, and her; He isn't listed as bi on this site, which is where they communicated too. She has a problem in meeting bi men. He is listed here as fully straight. His other profile is only seeking men. That's deception to us. Its the risk you take in our lifestyle. If you're not going to tell her about it then why worry? If she has any sense she will be using protection anyway. Yeah, she should be using protection. The worry just came from feeling guilty, of knowing she specifically did not want men who play with men...and he approached her, despite his background / her rules. She seemed nice, polite, friendly, kind, genuine. But she's played unknowingly with a guy who let's strangers cum inside him, so we stopped talking with her suddenly, as we won't risk meeting her. That's all. Just natural guilt made us a little uncomfortable, so we came here for a talk." Are you sure she doesn't know? I mean, OK, she has it on her profile, but I have on my profile that I prefer tall guys but time and again I end up with shorties. It won't be the first time someone has broken a self imposed rule. | |||
Why do we think that as a bi couple? Because we think people should have the right to choose for themselves who they have sex with and YES bi / gay men are in a higher risk category. And before I get the usual shitty onslaught of "everyone's just at risk" check out the blood service criteria | |||
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" I would mention you've seen this profile to the person. You might be right with your assumptions but if someone has it in for them then they have the right to know that. The police can prosecute, have had this happen to a neighbour and she got them prosecuted. There are ways of finding out if its the same person yourself, via messages, if you can log their IP address and if they use the same device and connection on both sites." The part that makes us hesitate there is that he is verified by many users on both sites. So it can't be someone else behind the profile if he's actually getting genuine good regular feedback, and matches the pictures. This is the thing about deception. Even if it *wasn't* him uploading the other profile, it's still him in the pictures having unprotected sex with other males, then posing here on this website as a straight male, meeting women who specifically do not want men who have sex with men. It's still him, and therefore he's still lied to people, potentially affecting their health. That's not the kind of guy we would want to help to be honest, if we thought he was still being slandered, because he's still telling a very dangerous lie. We would message him and ask, but he must not have the same decency to be respectful of other peoples wishes and health. We understand it's easy to log IP's but in the age of proxies, anonymous internet usage at cafes, libraries, wifi spots, etc, it's not *substantial* evidence for a prosecution on signing up to a website, unless there are other things to tie the person down aswell. If it does turn out that it's not him making the profile, the damage has still been done by him. We don't know enough to be honest whether or not it's karma, we just came to vent our feelings. We're not sure if that was worded too harshly, we don't condone anyone imitating anybody online, it's a pure crime, end of, and it rightfully carries a punishment. Anyone has the right to know if someone is impersonating them online. But looking at the situation all in all, and putting it together, we think logically that we'll go with our gut instinct, and just stay clear of both him and the female he met. Infact, it might be wise of us to block their verification users, for own play safety. Thanks for the reply, definitely made us think abit before finding out more and coming to a conclusion | |||
" Are you sure she doesn't know? I mean, OK, she has it on her profile, but I have on my profile that I prefer tall guys but time and again I end up with shorties. It won't be the first time someone has broken a self imposed rule." Absolutely, just while we were talking about it, we said ''maybe she knows ''
That makes us definitely feel better to be honest! | |||
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"I missed the bit about him having sex in pics. Yeah worry about protecting yourself. "Also don't message him. He obviously gets a kick out of doing things to people that they wouldn't like. Sounds a bit of a sociopath if I'm honest. | |||
"Ok, this is NOT badmouthing, it is purely anonymous, with a genuine health concern underneath. Long story short...we've seen a male user on here listed as straight, and meeting women. He's active on another swinging/sex site, searching for meets with other men, asking for bareback, and displaying verifications from his meets which detail gay bareback anal as taking place, swallowing, etc. Same pictures, name, location, age, meet verifications, pic verifications, etc. This is something which alarms us in general. Disclaimer for the next part; we would never name users, so don't ask, even privately. It's up to you to be smart on how trusting you are in meets. It's obviously anyone's right to do what they want, but the point we're highlighting is; One of the single females he met on here, has specifically stated on her profile that she will not go anyway near men who play with other men... She verified that she played with him randomly in a club meet, (obviously not knowing he meets other men for bareback). We were in contact with her for a potential meet, but it's put us off. We can't help but being paranoid about her now. We are also put off the club it happnened at (which will also remain anonymous). How many other gay or bi men go to clubs on straight nights playing as straight?! Honesty is so simple, but yet this scene can feel so deceiving at times
So to fellow Fab readers...we needed to get this off our chest. It's not really our place to say something directly is it? It's not our responsibility for members to play safe, BUT we feel an air of responsibility in now knowing this kind of thing is happening.
As a couple, we don't play with bi-men anyway, but this reason reinforces our need to be sure when meeting men.
Playing secretive games, living a lie on one site, and searching for bareback cock on another, can have horrible results for unwitting partners.
It's not for us to warn people about a particular member who may be more susceptible to picking up diseases - adults here should be responsible enough for their safety...we just feel concerned, it bothers us.
Are we over-reacting? Any thoughts from anyone would be nice to read, we have no problems with anyone's sexuality of course, and we would never invade someone's privacy by pointing, we just think that lies can lead to STD catastrophes in a place like this "We always play safe and minimise our risks and we get tested regularly, do you mind if I ask if you get tested regularly ? | |||
"I completely agree with the OP, despite us being a bi couple! Yes this scenario I think is not uncommon and I'm glad you've highlighted it
Why do we think that as a bi couple? Because we think people should have the right to choose for themselves who they have sex with and YES bi / gay men are in a higher risk category. And before I get the usual shitty onslaught of "everyone's just at risk" check out the blood service criteria "Thanks for this reply. We're happy a bi couple can see what we mean. We have nothing against bi couples, infact, you probably get to have a lot more fun in certain meets, given that many more positions/options are open to you at any one moment! We agree too, people have the right to choose. Bi couples on here who are open about it (and many are), have our respect for letting people know the deal from the start. We're friends with bi couples too. We just don't play, that's all, even though we might find them highly attractive. The ''everyone's just at risk'' thing is easily and quickly disproved, it's a biological & medical fact that bi/gay men are higher risk, the reasons are not hard to understand at all either! We just wanted to highlight it that's all, and see people's thoughts | |||
"yes ..over reacting ..did you really believe anything you read ...dear god the 'shock horror' reaction is very nieave ! " Deception is not nice. But we do apologise for the naivety. | |||
" I missed the bit about him having sex in pics. Yeah worry about protecting yourself.
Also don't message him. He obviously gets a kick out of doing things to people that they wouldn't like. Sounds a bit of a sociopath if I'm honest. "Thanks for the advice, and yeah we agree. It's just made us more assertive as to who else is out there also | |||
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" We always play safe and minimise our risks and we get tested regularly, do you mind if I ask if you get tested regularly ?" Absolutely we get tested, and we don't even play very often at all. It's very rare infact(schedules  ).
We had a straight threesome, fully protected oral & penetration, and we still kept going to the clinic every 3 months for a year to make sure nothing sinister was brewing. Dramatic maybe, but hey, there's no price on life.
We envy the couples who can play and enjoy all that fun, and still get tested without the additional worry that we have.
Cases like this one though just *prove* that we have good reason to be so damn paranoid! | |||
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"OP I do feel you are being naive and certainly judgmental. Its very clear you have a problem with bi males from your derisive comments. " Ok, the naive part, we probably can agree with. The second part, about having a problem with bi-males, you are so wrong, it's not even funny. Oh dear. Please don't stir things up like that. " I don't know how you play but I'm going to guess that you've had at least one play meet. Can you honestly be 100% sure that the people you played with have not had bareback sex, or maybe played with others who have. " Answered this already; Yes, we've had meets, no we cannot be 100% sure that the people we played with have had bareback sex, etc. Missed the point again. " You seem to have got it into your head that bi males are the most at risk of an STI and that thsee people should come with a public health warning. Whilst its certainly a fact that the anal passage is not naturally lubricated, it isn't just bi men who are risky, lots of heterosexual women have anal sex. STI's aren't always prevalent in people with lots of sexual partners, people who have very few partners are still at risk. " Answered this already; We already know the medical advice from professionals to follow, and gay/bi-sexual men are higher risk catergory, fact. That's what we choose to adhere to, based on the evidence (and logic) provided. Missed the point here too, what kind of response is it to say, ''well he's having bareback, but so what, that girl is too''. How is that helpful or relevant to this circumstance? We aren't talking about general population, or a female demographic here, it's a very specific scenario, more to do with lies & deceit than statistics to be honest. Though we did state, the female put herself at risk too, therefore too dangerous for us to play with, so we ceased contact with her, believing she is higher risk now. Did you ignore that bit? " You seem to have taken offence to this bi guy. He chooses to look for men on one site and women on here, so what. Your also making assumptions about the play he had with the lady you have been messaging. Why is she at risk, how do you know they played bareback? " We aren't making any assumptions (but ironically you are!), as we know she she took his cum in her mouth from both of their verifications. We take offence to the secrecy of deceit, NOT his sexual orientation. Bi guys have messaged us, and we politely declined, despite us finding them attractive and getting along with them very well. You need to get it out of your head that there's a problem here with bi-sexual men. There isn't. The post is a mixture of things, lies, deceit, guilt, STI risk, careless play not advertised here, but advertised elsewhere, etc. You're answering all the things we didn't question. " Just because your voicing opinions about safe sex most vehemently, how do we all know that you aren't enjoying bareback gangbangs in Canal Street. " Brilliant, mature, and very on point response to say we could be enjoying bareback gangbangs for all you know! Guess you'd better keep on eye on us
" The only way to protect yourself is to ensure a condom is used. " Thanks for this gem. We know. We wanted advice on the guilt factors, on whether it was our place to say something to her. We got the good advice from the majority of people that we needed. Thanks for taking the time to read some of our post though
Please read our other messages in replies to this post/thread. It answers most of what you said about bi males, STD risk groups, etc. Just so we don't have to type it again in full detail. | |||
"You have found out something about a person that means you will avoid them ..leave it at that .." Will do | |||
"Mountain, molehill." We hope so. | |||
"The only way to protect yourself as much as possible in this lifestyle is to either use a condom, or give up and be celibate. When we meet someone we obviously have no idea who they've had sex with, therefore we would never have bareback with anyone but each other. There is clearly still an element of risk, even with a condom, and we take your point about this guy not being honest, but have you ever seen Catfish? People tell lies to get what they want. All you can do is protect yourselves. " We would always use protection, like someone said to us earlier, more fool us if we don't use a condom! We've never seen Catfish but we keep hearing people say it, what is it?! We heard it's a film, but also a term? Totally agreed on the bareback thing. Our paranoia will save us! | |||
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"... Are we over-reacting? Any thoughts from anyone would be nice to read, we have no problems with anyone's sexuality of course, and we would never invade someone's privacy by pointing, we just think that lies can lead to STD catastrophes in a place like this "I'd be as concerned if he had bareback with either one of you and then wanted to meet me | |||
"The only way to protect yourself as much as possible in this lifestyle is to either use a condom, or give up and be celibate. When we meet someone we obviously have no idea who they've had sex with, therefore we would never have bareback with anyone but each other. There is clearly still an element of risk, even with a condom, and we take your point about this guy not being honest, but have you ever seen Catfish? People tell lies to get what they want. All you can do is protect yourselves. We would always use protection, like someone said to us earlier, more fool us if we don't use a condom! We've never seen Catfish but we keep hearing people say it, what is it?! We heard it's a film, but also a term? Totally agreed on the bareback thing. Our paranoia will save us!" Catfish is a show on MTV. About fake internet people. | |||
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"You do know women can have Hiv/Aids has well,have we gone back to the 80s...." Why do you read selectively? Did you seriously miss the part of us cutting contact with her because of the she risk she may be carrying something too? And regardless of timezone, our health is priority, gay/bi men are a higher risk category for HIV, for the millionth time, end of. Would you be ok with our post if it was a woman in the circumstance who was playing bareback and putting us at risk of HIV or anything else? | |||
"... Are we over-reacting? Any thoughts from anyone would be nice to read, we have no problems with anyone's sexuality of course, and we would never invade someone's privacy by pointing, we just think that lies can lead to STD catastrophes in a place like this
I'd be as concerned if he had bareback with either one of you and then wanted to meet me"Good, we're concerned like that too, about meeting any member who plays bareback with anyone. Their choice, but always an alarm bell to us. | |||
"The only way to protect yourself as much as possible in this lifestyle is to either use a condom, or give up and be celibate. When we meet someone we obviously have no idea who they've had sex with, therefore we would never have bareback with anyone but each other. There is clearly still an element of risk, even with a condom, and we take your point about this guy not being honest, but have you ever seen Catfish? People tell lies to get what they want. All you can do is protect yourselves. We would always use protection, like someone said to us earlier, more fool us if we don't use a condom! We've never seen Catfish but we keep hearing people say it, what is it?! We heard it's a film, but also a term? Totally agreed on the bareback thing. Our paranoia will save us! Catfish is a show on MTV. About fake internet people." Thanks. Recommended? | |||
"if it bothers you, don't do it and allow the lady to make her own choices. anyone on a swingers/sex site or meeting at a sex/swingers club and having sex with virtual strangers, needs to own their own sexual health and be realistic that some people lie to get their leg over. as for the other higher sexual risk groups, what counsel is offered there..... do you check for verifications for people who have met them and offer a similar warning and/or consider contacting them " We've realised this is common, after some good replies here. To be honest, it's the first time we've come across something like this which could have affected us directly in the long run. We considered contacting as we thought we would help. But we were advised it was just not our place to do so. The verifications system is good in helping us filter out any connected danger, makes us suspicious when people hide verifications now! Even though there may be plenty of legitimate reasons for doing so. | |||
"It's just another lesson to be learnt... We always play safe and like to think we pick those that feel the same as us. However we are aware that we may not always get it right and certainly in usb especially you can never really tell. So we treat all play meets as if they do partake in regular bareback with others. That way our awareness never slips. I know what you mean though it is a personal bugbear when I think someone is lying and there's not much that's a bigger turn off for us. Can't be doing with those that can't even be honest." So true, we do the exact same, treat everyone as if they have played bareback at any point so our awareness never slips too
And thanks for being one of the few replies here who noticed our emphasis on the unnecessary lies, rather than the protection thing. We're smart enough to use protection anyway at all times, but the lies thing is a huge turn off on any level and can only lead to worse situations, in our opinion. Honesty is so simple but seems to be so rare despite it's importance in a lifestyle such as this! | |||
"It's just another lesson to be learnt... We always play safe and like to think we pick those that feel the same as us. However we are aware that we may not always get it right and certainly in usb especially you can never really tell. So we treat all play meets as if they do partake in regular bareback with others. That way our awareness never slips. I know what you mean though it is a personal bugbear when I think someone is lying and there's not much that's a bigger turn off for us. Can't be doing with those that can't even be honest. So true, we do the exact same, treat everyone as if they have played bareback at any point so our awareness never slips too
And thanks for being one of the few replies here who noticed our emphasis on the unnecessary lies, rather than the protection thing. We're smart enough to use protection anyway at all times, but the lies thing is a huge turn off on any level and can only lead to worse situations, in our opinion. Honesty is so simple but seems to be so rare despite it's importance in a lifestyle such as this!"do you use any protection for fem to fem fun ? | |||
" do you use any protection for fem to fem fun ? " We've not had female to female fun yet. We feel that this question is detracting from the overall theme of deception, and our intention of highlighting this to the FabSwingers community. We discussed just the other day, the availability of dental dams and the importance of using them for fem oral in swinging, but the lack of promotion they receive in comparison to condoms. But again, that's going far off topic as far as we're concerned. We asked whether or not we should tell the girl, we were told no, that concludes the situation for us. Our safety precautions are for another thread, another time | |||
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"The only way to protect yourself as much as possible in this lifestyle is to either use a condom, or give up and be celibate. When we meet someone we obviously have no idea who they've had sex with, therefore we would never have bareback with anyone but each other. There is clearly still an element of risk, even with a condom, and we take your point about this guy not being honest, but have you ever seen Catfish? People tell lies to get what they want. All you can do is protect yourselves. We would always use protection, like someone said to us earlier, more fool us if we don't use a condom! We've never seen Catfish but we keep hearing people say it, what is it?! We heard it's a film, but also a term? Totally agreed on the bareback thing. Our paranoia will save us! Catfish is a show on MTV. About fake internet people. Thanks. Recommended?" It's interesting and an eye opener.  | |||
" It's interesting and an eye opener. "Thankyou, we'll have a look. Nice profile by the way, had us laughing out loud, "20,000+ verifications" and the "hairy chest" bit  | |||
" It's interesting and an eye opener.
Thankyou, we'll have a look. Nice profile by the way, had us laughing out loud, "20,000+ verifications" and the "hairy chest" bit " xx | |||
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"After reading you countless and endless replies to comments in this thread our thoughts are why are you into swinging have you considered maybe swinging is not for you at this time, maybe due to your young and tender years! On the other hand after looking at your likes and dislikes on your profile we see your very much into bukkake, anal sex, and water sports assuming here you mean having others piss all over you. So short and simple answer to your original question is forget about the guy your so concerned about and enjoy what you want to do and not what others get up to. " Stupidest thing we've read in ages! Thanks for the giggle. Our likes and dislikes could be our PERSONAL interests, could be purely fantasy thoughts, could be related to pornography preferences, could be things we like to do with EACH OTHER ONLY, and not anybody else. We do not enjoy or allow anyone to "piss all over" us, as you so educationally put it, please learn to read better, especially in context, before replying with such judgemental, inaccurate, maliciously insinuating crap. We play safe, accept it. And you have the audacity to say age could be a factor, when obviously you aren't old enough mentally to understand how something as basic as likes and dislikes work. The irony! We are "very much into" these things are we? Because boxes are ticked? Ok lol. Your thoughts are "why are we swinging then"? None of your business why. The cheek. You question if we should swing because we are very careful about our health and safety, and don't play with bisexual men? That statement is a huge warning sign about you. Everybody has rules, limits, preferences, etc. Nobody should lie and deceive, especially in a place like this. We have to explain to your shock of why we do this, because you can't comprehend the fact we don't agree with deception which ENDANGERS others? Wow. Considering this is a sexual community, for the public, it's very much our concern what "others get up to" here, we have a right to pick who who sleep with, and it affects us directly if people we meet are a higher risk group. Do we really need to explain this? Lastly you say swinging is not for us because we want to stay safe and not meet liars? Maybe swinging IS for us, and we just don't wish to swing with people like you. We would *never* tell you that swinging isn't for you because you're older, or because of your interests, or just because you play it extra safe. What a reply. | |||
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"Without reading all the replies when your swinging, even with veris you can't know the sexual history of ever person you play with That's why for us personally we always play safe and we are both vaccinated against heb b and we have 3 monthly health checks only u can look after your own sexual health " Very true, we completely agree | |||
"Sex with others is always risky. Using protection and getting yourself tested is very important. Alot of bi and gay men get them selves tested more than straight people. If you have more than one sex partner and you dont use protection and get a simple test then stop swinging!" We agree here too. It's not the focal point we wanted to raise as it's been discussed a million times before probably, but yes, staying safe is the absolute priority | |||
"Not your circus Not your monkeys...." Fair enough but we just felt initially helpless. Agreed though, we've washed our hands of the situation | |||
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"Its the internet... of course everyone is completely honest on here.
It is up to people to look after themselves. We are all adults on here, and responsible for our own sexual health, and in judging the risk we take.
On balance, what good is telling her really going to do?
Yeah. We thought if we tell her, then she might be more careful, it might stop or at least slow any potential transmissions in their circle of meets.
Maybe that's just wishful thinking. Just don't want anyone catching anything horrible through deception and lies. We know the answer is always to use protection."You are assuming that this guy has something to transmit. You don't know how regularly he is tested, you don know what precautions he takes with the meets he has on any site, you don't know if he to,d the women at the club he was bi before they played, you don't know if they played safe or not. You are taking the facts you have and jumping to a huge amout of conclusions about both these people. Use the site and play how you wish, but don't jump to conclusions about others. | |||
"Not sure if your over reacting but maybe your being a little naive. Not everyone is who or what they claim to be even in the real world. As for being put off by a club because of bi play, I be seen bi play at every club I've been to and people don't generally judge. Naive, possibly yes! We always play safe, and have strict criteria, but it's not the scene for us to be gullible in! Eye opener for us definitely. Thanks for the replies
As for the club, this could apply to any club, so it's not that we're put off this club specifically, but by going to one at all.
There's a specific bi night for bi men to see women, men & couples, but this meet was not at the bi night, so it just made us think, how many gay/bi men are attending non-bi events? Etc.
We don't judge either, everybody has a right to their sexual preferences. We don't have an issue with the ACT of bi play at all. It's rather the consequences we are paranoid about.
In fact, if we saw bi men playing at a club, we'd be happier, because we've seen it, and openly know that the male plays with other males! Unlike the guy who lies about it, meeting women he knows do not want bi or gay men, we find that disrespectful, and alarming. Unprotected sex is not a joke, but this man obviously doesn't take his health or other peoples seriously."If this has "burdoned" you so much, I personally think your a but to delicate for swinging. As someine has mentioned, we have all met people who have probably done things we don't agree with or wouldn't do. May I ask why your on a site looking at bi men?? What's wrong with him having a profile on one site looking for one thing and one on another for another. Maybe he plays straight with women. That might be his choice. I have this profile where I in the majority play alone. Am i deceiving people or lying cause I have a couple profile to?? | |||
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" do you use any protection for fem to fem fun ? We've not had female to female fun yet. We feel that this question is detracting from the overall theme of deception, and our intention of highlighting this to the FabSwingers community. We discussed just the other day, the availability of dental dams and the importance of using them for fem oral in swinging, but the lack of promotion they receive in comparison to condoms. But again, that's going far off topic as far as we're concerned. We asked whether or not we should tell the girl, we were told no, that concludes the situation for us. Our safety precautions are for another thread, another time "Not at all detracting, most of us don't have prejudice towards bi men as many play safe even wearing condoms for oral ok the guy in you case like bare back but many of the more common Sti's can be passed on through oral with men and women, you say you haven't had girl girl play but discussed is. Based on that are you prepared for it do you have dental dams? What would happen if it were to just happen in the heat of the moment? | |||
"You do know women can have Hiv/Aids has well,have we gone back to the 80s.... Why do you read selectively? Did you seriously miss the part of us cutting contact with her because of the she risk she may be carrying something too? And regardless of timezone, our health is priority, gay/bi men are a higher risk category for HIV, for the millionth time, end of. Would you be ok with our post if it was a woman in the circumstance who was playing bareback and putting us at risk of HIV or anything else?" But you don't know he has anything, let alone HIV/AIDS ......not every person that has bareback sex does and not every gay/bi man does. The conclusions you've jumped to are staggering. | |||
"Ok your both relatively new to the scene, some of the above posters have years and in some cases over a decade of experience, dishonesty exists in the swinging scene many married men and women play away here, there will be people who are bi but won't admit it here hell there will even be people that knowingly have sti's here. If you want to be part of the scene then you have to accept it and deal with it in your own way. Most will play safe and go to the GUM/ISH periodically to get themselves checked. Bi play exists in clubs and not just on a bi night, its taken for granted most women on the scene are bi, that seems to be acceptable but bi men are dirty disease spreaders! It's that attitude that makes many men hide their bisexality. One last thing, if you do attend a GUM/ISH clinic then you will know that its currently couples that travel abroad that are the biggest sti risk/spreaders, that was the info given at the beginning on this month anyway." Thankyou for the reply. We aren't new, we've been here before but yes, in comparison to others here, we are practically brand new! It's from these experienced people that we've mainly seen and taken the advice from. Anyone playing abroad is a huge risk, we definitely know this, everytime we attended to clinic, they asked us if we slept with anyone abroad. You're right about bi men hiding it, because people judge them. But by hiding it, they partially conform to the initial stereotype, because it can be a dangerous thing to withold in such a scene. A fully bi couple messaged us in support of our points in this thread, saying that the majority of guys who message them are "straight guys". They ask the straight guys why they don't declare they are bi, and the response the couple receive is, "we didn't want to put off couples/women"! Many men are doing this! It's not a problem with bi men, it's a problem with deceptive liars! Thanks for the info and general reply, we agree, and definitely take on board your points/advice. | |||
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" But you don't know he has anything, let alone HIV/AIDS ......not every person that has bareback sex does and not every gay/bi man does. The conclusions you've jumped to are staggering." You literally just built our response for us. EXACTLY, it's because we DON'T know what he has or that he has anything, so our conclusion is to logically stay away, based on what we DO know, which is he takes bareback cum anally, orally, and regularly. The conclusion we jumped to is, he's a deceitful liar, and a risk to health of people who play. If that's "staggering", we respectfully agree to disagree. | |||
"If it's a site dedicated to men, then you must be on there as well to be _iewing the profiles ? Does not lead to the same ?" It's NOT a site dedicated to men, it's open to all, the majority being couples | |||
" But you don't know he has anything, let alone HIV/AIDS ......not every person that has bareback sex does and not every gay/bi man does. The conclusions you've jumped to are staggering. You literally just built our response for us. EXACTLY, it's because we DON'T know what he has or that he has anything, so our conclusion is to logically stay away, based on what we DO know, which is he takes bareback cum anally, orally, and regularly. The conclusion we jumped to is, he's a deceitful liar, and a risk to health of people who play. If that's "staggering", we respectfully agree to disagree." You don't know if anyone at all on here has anything though. Just cause a man is straight and has safe sex when swinging doesn't mean he has nothing, his wife could have had a one night stand and got something and passed it to him!?!?!? So many its and buts, I'm surprised you get toplay if your so worried over what mights and ifs. | |||
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" do you use any protection for fem to fem fun ? We've not had female to female fun yet. We feel that this question is detracting from the overall theme of deception, and our intention of highlighting this to the FabSwingers community. We discussed just the other day, the availability of dental dams and the importance of using them for fem oral in swinging, but the lack of promotion they receive in comparison to condoms. But again, that's going far off topic as far as we're concerned. We asked whether or not we should tell the girl, we were told no, that concludes the situation for us. Our safety precautions are for another thread, another time
Not at all detracting, most of us don't have prejudice towards bi men as many play safe even wearing condoms for oral ok the guy in you case like bare back but many of the more common Sti's can be passed on through oral with men and women, you say you haven't had girl girl play but discussed is. Based on that are you prepared for it do you have dental dams? What would happen if it were to just happen in the heat of the moment?"Sorry, it's fully detracting. The topic is deception, lies, double profiles, etc. We didn't mean for this to become safe sex talk, we play safe and always will, so it's a useless discussion for us personally. We would use dams to minimise any infection risk, and we wouldn't play unsafe just because something happened in the heat of the moment. | |||
"You can't get that uptight about what else people get up to. I once brushed shoulders with someone who voted UKIP, the shame of it all "LOL, that's worse than our situation
We're not uptight about it, just wondered if we had a responsibility to mention it | |||
" do you use any protection for fem to fem fun ? We've not had female to female fun yet. We feel that this question is detracting from the overall theme of deception, and our intention of highlighting this to the FabSwingers community. We discussed just the other day, the availability of dental dams and the importance of using them for fem oral in swinging, but the lack of promotion they receive in comparison to condoms. But again, that's going far off topic as far as we're concerned. We asked whether or not we should tell the girl, we were told no, that concludes the situation for us. Our safety precautions are for another thread, another time
Not at all detracting, most of us don't have prejudice towards bi men as many play safe even wearing condoms for oral ok the guy in you case like bare back but many of the more common Sti's can be passed on through oral with men and women, you say you haven't had girl girl play but discussed is. Based on that are you prepared for it do you have dental dams? What would happen if it were to just happen in the heat of the moment?
Sorry, it's fully detracting. The topic is deception, lies, double profiles, etc. We didn't mean for this to become safe sex talk, we play safe and always will, so it's a useless discussion for us personally. We would use dams to minimise any infection risk, and we wouldn't play unsafe just because something happened in the heat of the moment."You use dams for girl on girl????? Now that is a passion killer, do you set out time slits so you have all your equipment ready. Slipping a condom on is a quick thing for a guy to do. Most can do it in seconds, but dental dams lol. | |||
" But you don't know he has anything, let alone HIV/AIDS ......not every person that has bareback sex does and not every gay/bi man does. The conclusions you've jumped to are staggering. You literally just built our response for us. EXACTLY, it's because we DON'T know what he has or that he has anything, so our conclusion is to logically stay away, based on what we DO know, which is he takes bareback cum anally, orally, and regularly. The conclusion we jumped to is, he's a deceitful liar, and a risk to health of people who play. If that's "staggering", we respectfully agree to disagree. You don't know if anyone at all on here has anything though. Just cause a man is straight and has safe sex when swinging doesn't mean he has nothing, his wife could have had a one night stand and got something and passed it to him!?!?!? So many its and buts, I'm surprised you get toplay if your so worried over what mights and ifs." We're not saying we know what ANYONE here has! We don't! Which is why we play safe. Well, we're happy there are safe couples, guys and girls like us we know who play safe like us, so it's not hard to find people at all
We envy the carefree people in a sense, the fun they must have! We're worriers naturally | |||
" do you use any protection for fem to fem fun ? We've not had female to female fun yet. We feel that this question is detracting from the overall theme of deception, and our intention of highlighting this to the FabSwingers community. We discussed just the other day, the availability of dental dams and the importance of using them for fem oral in swinging, but the lack of promotion they receive in comparison to condoms. But again, that's going far off topic as far as we're concerned. We asked whether or not we should tell the girl, we were told no, that concludes the situation for us. Our safety precautions are for another thread, another time
Not at all detracting, most of us don't have prejudice towards bi men as many play safe even wearing condoms for oral ok the guy in you case like bare back but many of the more common Sti's can be passed on through oral with men and women, you say you haven't had girl girl play but discussed is. Based on that are you prepared for it do you have dental dams? What would happen if it were to just happen in the heat of the moment?
Sorry, it's fully detracting. The topic is deception, lies, double profiles, etc. We didn't mean for this to become safe sex talk, we play safe and always will, so it's a useless discussion for us personally. We would use dams to minimise any infection risk, and we wouldn't play unsafe just because something happened in the heat of the moment.
You use dams for girl on girl?????
Now that is a passion killer, do you set out time slits so you have all your equipment ready.
Slipping a condom on is a quick thing for a guy to do. Most can do it in seconds, but dental dams lol. "We haven't used dams on fem to fem but we aren't vehemently against it. It's defo a passion killer! We find condoms passion killers too to be honest! But hey, health over passion, no? | |||
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"I'm wondering how many people would happily have sex with this man knowing he has unprotected sex with men" | |||
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"Its the internet... of course everyone is completely honest on here.
It is up to people to look after themselves. We are all adults on here, and responsible for our own sexual health, and in judging the risk we take.
On balance, what good is telling her really going to do?
Yeah. We thought if we tell her, then she might be more careful, it might stop or at least slow any potential transmissions in their circle of meets.
Maybe that's just wishful thinking. Just don't want anyone catching anything horrible through deception and lies. We know the answer is always to use protection.
You are assuming that this guy has something to transmit. You don't know how regularly he is tested, you don know what precautions he takes with the meets he has on any site, you don't know if he to,d the women at the club he was bi before they played, you don't know if they played safe or not. You are taking the facts you have and jumping to a huge amout of conclusions about both these people.
Use the site and play how you wish, but don't jump to conclusions about others."Not really, we didn't act on any conclusion, hence why we came here for advice on coming to a reasonable conclusion on what to do about it. The answer was do nothing, it seems | |||
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"Lol liars and fakes are a very common toppic here, most of us on the scene have taken it for granted. Your posts unfortunately come across as almost homophobic, the attitude you have to a bi bare back man who is lying is the same attitude you should have to everyone. Assume we all have an sti and we are all liars." I find that odd. We are a bi couple and I certainly haven't taken offence to the OP and don't think they are homophobic at all. They have already stated it's their preference not to play with bi or gay men. They have also stated they have bi friends. | |||
"Lol liars and fakes are a very common toppic here, most of us on the scene have taken it for granted. Your posts unfortunately come across as almost homophobic, the attitude you have to a bi bare back man who is lying is the same attitude you should have to everyone. Assume we all have an sti and we are all liars." That's unfortunate. We are friends with bi couples, people we socialise with and care for. We won't be backed into the "homophobic" corner because we don't play with bi men. Do you want to call us racist if we don't play with black men and put that on our profile? The assumptions about risks and bi/gay men, is not our assumption, we just adhere to medical advice regarding the high risk groups. We have no issue with bi men, or couples. This is a sex site, we aren't narrow minded. | |||
" do you use any protection for fem to fem fun ? We've not had female to female fun yet. We feel that this question is detracting from the overall theme of deception, and our intention of highlighting this to the FabSwingers community. We discussed just the other day, the availability of dental dams and the importance of using them for fem oral in swinging, but the lack of promotion they receive in comparison to condoms. But again, that's going far off topic as far as we're concerned. We asked whether or not we should tell the girl, we were told no, that concludes the situation for us. Our safety precautions are for another thread, another time
Not at all detracting, most of us don't have prejudice towards bi men as many play safe even wearing condoms for oral ok the guy in you case like bare back but many of the more common Sti's can be passed on through oral with men and women, you say you haven't had girl girl play but discussed is. Based on that are you prepared for it do you have dental dams? What would happen if it were to just happen in the heat of the moment?
Sorry, it's fully detracting. The topic is deception, lies, double profiles, etc. We didn't mean for this to become safe sex talk, we play safe and always will, so it's a useless discussion for us personally. We would use dams to minimise any infection risk, and we wouldn't play unsafe just because something happened in the heat of the moment.
You use dams for girl on girl?????
Now that is a passion killer, do you set out time slits so you have all your equipment ready.
Slipping a condom on is a quick thing for a guy to do. Most can do it in seconds, but dental dams lol.
We haven't used dams on fem to fem but we aren't vehemently against it. It's defo a passion killer! We find condoms passion killers too to be honest! But hey, health over passion, no?"To be fair dams are incredibly easy to use and supplied by our ish clinic to me (Sten) when I say I have oral with other women. It is not the same as going without but it is something different and can add a fun element. | |||
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"If it's a site dedicated to men, then you must be on there as well to be _iewing the profiles ? Does not lead to the same ? It's NOT a site dedicated to men, it's open to all, the majority being couples "You said it's a site dedicated to meeting men?? My mistake,,, | |||
"Lol liars and fakes are a very common toppic here, most of us on the scene have taken it for granted. Your posts unfortunately come across as almost homophobic, the attitude you have to a bi bare back man who is lying is the same attitude you should have to everyone. Assume we all have an sti and we are all liars. That's unfortunate. We are friends with bi couples, people we socialise with and care for. We won't be backed into the "homophobic" corner because we don't play with bi men. Do you want to call us racist if we don't play with black men and put that on our profile? The assumptions about risks and bi/gay men, is not our assumption, we just adhere to medical advice regarding the high risk groups. We have no issue with bi men, or couples. This is a sex site, we aren't narrow minded." as a bi guy, I never read them as biphobic. I did read them as you having singled out the unsafe bi guy issue which is fine, you seem to have ignored the question about the other higher sex risk groups and have nothing referenced to them as they are also within the swinging community. I often wonder the people excluding bi guys would also exclude women who play with bi guys, they have exposed themselves to a higher risk group. The quest for the FFM maybe sometimes that clouds the risks, note maybe. | |||
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"Lol liars and fakes are a very common toppic here, most of us on the scene have taken it for granted. Your posts unfortunately come across as almost homophobic, the attitude you have to a bi bare back man who is lying is the same attitude you should have to everyone. Assume we all have an sti and we are all liars. That's unfortunate. We are friends with bi couples, people we socialise with and care for. We won't be backed into the "homophobic" corner because we don't play with bi men. Do you want to call us racist if we don't play with black men and put that on our profile? The assumptions about risks and bi/gay men, is not our assumption, we just adhere to medical advice regarding the high risk groups. We have no issue with bi men, or couples. This is a sex site, we aren't narrow minded." Ok the homophobic maybe was a bit too much but seem to be hung up on the fact this bi bare back guy potentially has aids. You also say about advise given about that. However you chances of catching aids is tiny compared with other sti's you seem so worried about aids spread from a bi guy that lies that you don't seem to be taking into account all the other sti's that heterosexual people here could give you. Obviously you don't play with bi men and that's a choice we are all free to make but you will be at as much risk in catching something from non penetrative sex from a heterosexual. There is a stark reality here, you have found a bi man that lies, has unprotected sex with both men and women and he may have an sti. How different is that to a man or woman who lies, has unprotected sex with women or man and may have an sti. | |||
"Not your circus Not your monkeys.... Fair enough but we just felt initially helpless. Agreed though, we've washed our hands of the situation "Good Concentrate on what you want and your own safety and enjoy yourselves
Good luck | |||
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"People lie, especially about sex. Trust no-one. Hell, I even think the OPs profile is an elaborate fabrication." People do lie... I know people that say they don't do this.. Dont do that.. But I know they have x so I only worry about my sexual precautions and do as I see fit. As for dental dams and condoms for oral. Not a prayer but many forget that there is a risk from cross contamination too... But if you find the worry outweighs the enjoyment this isn't the lifestyle for you. As to the op..... If I knew for sure something and it was for someone I knees sexual health yes I'd me mention it | |||
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"In saying that hiw many bi women share toys like its nothing. I have actually been to a meet where toys have been shared without noticing in the heat of the moment but the men have been protected - kind of pointless by that point. We had our scans and came back clear, but it makes you think. I think at least 3 times at clubs ive seen women "trying out" a toy as its been passed back and forth and ive seen men with rabbits fuck 3 or 4 women with the same toy. Its not just bi men, women can actually be worse. Protect yourself at all times!" Oh good god no I treat toys like I treat cocks. Condom on and a new one if you're changing hole, be that on me or anyone else. Basic hygiene | |||
"In saying that hiw many bi women share toys like its nothing. I have actually been to a meet where toys have been shared without noticing in the heat of the moment but the men have been protected - kind of pointless by that point. We had our scans and came back clear, but it makes you think. I think at least 3 times at clubs ive seen women "trying out" a toy as its been passed back and forth and ive seen men with rabbits fuck 3 or 4 women with the same toy. Its not just bi men, women can actually be worse. Protect yourself at all times!" pretty much the point I was making. Lots of people see aids as the big issue but there are so many other nasties out there to contend with that are far more common. | |||
"People lie, especially about sex. Trust no-one. Hell, I even think the OPs profile is an elaborate fabrication. People do lie... I know people that say they don't do this.. Dont do that.. But I know they have x so I only worry about my sexual precautions and do as I see fit. As for dental dams and condoms for oral. Not a prayer but many forget that there is a risk from cross contamination too... But if you find the worry outweighs the enjoyment this isn't the lifestyle for you. As to the op..... If I knew for sure something and it was for someone I knees sexual health yes I'd me mention it " We have both condoms and dental dams in case others wish to use them but only sometime use them ourselves but only for something different. We do take risks with oral yes, it's a choice that many make and we are very clear on the risks. | |||
" But you don't know he has anything, let alone HIV/AIDS ......not every person that has bareback sex does and not every gay/bi man does. The conclusions you've jumped to are staggering. You literally just built our response for us. EXACTLY, it's because we DON'T know what he has or that he has anything, so our conclusion is to logically stay away, based on what we DO know, which is he takes bareback cum anally, orally, and regularly. The conclusion we jumped to is, he's a deceitful liar, and a risk to health of people who play. If that's "staggering", we respectfully agree to disagree. You don't know if anyone at all on here has anything though. Just cause a man is straight and has safe sex when swinging doesn't mean he has nothing, his wife could have had a one night stand and got something and passed it to him!?!?!? So many its and buts, I'm surprised you get toplay if your so worried over what mights and ifs." | |||
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"You do know women can have Hiv/Aids has well,have we gone back to the 80s.... Why do you read selectively? Did you seriously miss the part of us cutting contact with her because of the she risk she may be carrying something too? And regardless of timezone, our health is priority, gay/bi men are a higher risk category for HIV, for the millionth time, end of. Would you be ok with our post if it was a woman in the circumstance who was playing bareback and putting us at risk of HIV or anything else?" Yes but my point was you straight away thought just because he is Bi and does bareback he would have Hiv/Aids and that he might of gave it to the woman you both want to meet....So Like i said women spread that disease 2,You should always be safe during sex,unless in a committed relationship! unless you both do bareback? with anyone you meet.. | |||
"Yes but my point was you straight away thought just because he is Bi and does bareback he would have Hiv/Aids and that he might of gave it to the woman you both want to meet....So Like i said women spread that disease 2,You should always be safe during sex,unless in a committed relationship!" This so much! I don't intend to go bareback with either males or females. Too many double standards. From what I've seen and heard more men who play with men use condoms as opposed to straight men. ignorance is bliss. | |||
 ) carries a lower risk of the female acquiring an infection of any kind. But the risk is still there
The infection does not transmit more or less depending on whether I have sex with a straight man, a bisexual man or a gay man (although, it might be non-existent with a gay man as he won't be interested in me  )
So, the moral of the story is that women should have sex with gay men only, as they are the safest | |||
