For me, yes I do. Not gonna write a long essay or anything like that, but when our dogs get seriously ill and they have no quality of life and they’re just in constant pain, we all say ‘it’s the humane thing to do’ or it’s the right thing to do to not see them suffer
I also want to caveat it with I absolutely respect everyone’s opinions if their different to mine |
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By *rAitchMan 2 weeks ago
Diagonally Parked in a Parallel Universe |
Yes. A good friend of mine is a sheep farmer and over the last 6 months she has gone from being fit and active on her farm to being admitted to a hospice with severe motor neurone disease. She has lost use of her arms and legs, her voice is failing and her quality of life is miserable.
I visited her a couple of weeks ago and she said she wants to die. She also said that if she let her sheep suffer in the same way as she is, she would have been prosecuted for animal cruelty.
I have known her about 15 years and this is heartbreaking. |
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I was with my mum when she passed (cancer) and it was a long drawn out thing and she really wasn't there for days on end because morphine, so I didn't get the chance to say goodbye properly; she was alive but not there.
So I can't say whether if I'd been around earlier whether it'd have been kinder for her to finish it when she was in it enough to say "I've had enough" rather than just letting the disease destroy her. |
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Yes. I have had to endure watching loved ones suffer needlessly at the end, losing their dignity and leaving awful final memories for their friends and family that witnessed it.
I will not inflict that on my children. |
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"Do you/would you support the assisted dying bill? "
Yes. Some of us do not want to go on and it is a pointless exercise in going on as we have a shit prognosis interm of leading an independent and fulfilling life.
No one wants to be a shell of a personal needing 24 hour care or being in contant pain or slowly losing your mind. |
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By *iver78Man 2 weeks ago
barton upon humber |
Ohhh , lots of variables that my uneducated brain cant start to comprehend, its like should we bring back the death penalty
My first reaction would be say yes but , how many people have been hung falsely!!
I beleive until your faced woth the situation its hard to comment , but I can see the reasoning to agree !! |
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I am on the fence. I believe people should have the right to control what happens to them and have autonomy over their death if they have a terminal prognosis
However how does it fit with the Dr's ethical code of the preservation of life?
How can people be sure that there won't be coercion and corruption? How would the person be safeguarded against that? Or what if they change their mind and can't communicate that
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"Yes but with the right safeguarding procedures in place "
This.
Having worked in the care industry there are right dodgy fuckers out there who will do anything to get their hands on money, so strict safeguarding would have to be in place. |
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Would never fly but I think we should also be given the option if we get the the point where we need care and have to go into a nursing home, this would lighten the financial burden on the state as well as allow a lot more generational wealth to be passed on, I already plan to take my life rather than lose all assets if I need care this will make the exit plan a lot easier |
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Absolutely.
I would advocate a much wider interpretation.
.
"It should be the right of any adult, regardless of age or illness, to voluntarily request their life to end in a dignified and painless matter".
.
Let's get assisted dying over the line first, but I feel a wider discussion over true autonomy of the individual is further down the road.
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By *vaRoseWoman 2 weeks ago
Ankh-Morpork |
"Yes but with the right safeguarding procedures in place
This.
Having worked in the care industry there are right dodgy fuckers out there who will do anything to get their hands on money, so strict safeguarding would have to be in place."
This is my concern too, and I think safeguarding has to go a lot further than making sure that nobody is trying to inherit someone’s house and pressuring them into it.
Someone doesn’t have to be explicitly told “you should die” to feel that they ought to. If you’re elderly, disabled, seriously ill or dependent on other people for care, you already feel like a burden.
We have a society where disabled people are expected to justify the cost of their existence. We’re told that chronically ill or disabled people need to get back into work, that the welfare bill is too high, that disability benefits are unsustainable. We keep reducing support while pretending it’s for their own good. In April this year, for example, the UC health element for most new LCWRA claimants was cut in half, with the lower rate then frozen for several years. A quick look on the forums here will highlight societies attitudes towards anyone disadvantaged.
What if nobody says anything at all, but the person has spent ten years being told through policy, media and the benefits system that their very existence is too much of an expense?
That’s coercion in much more insidious way, because nobody necessarily has to say anything to them directly. They’ve just been taught that their existence is a selfish burden on society.
If we’re going to say to vulnerable people, “”You have the right to choose death, then we also need to be able to say, “”if you choose life, we will make sure you can live it with dignity, care and without being made to feel like a financial and emotional burden””
I’d like to think I’ve read too much dystopian fiction, but the people in powers attitudes towards the most vulnerable in society makes me worry about how this will be misused. I fully support full autonomy which includes assisted dying but I am worried about its safety.
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Yes. As others have said with safeguarding and controls, but if someone is terminally ill, and in constant pain that they cannot cope with, and their wishes are that they want to go then they should be allowed to. |
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I would sign something this minute if I could to say if I was terminally ill and suffering or I had severe dementia then to end it. Why can’t we do that whilst we are sane, fit and healthy?
Having watched my father in law die a long and painful death and praying he would die I would do this today. |
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Yes I do support it under very strict protocols with the option for medical staff to opt out if it's against their principals and the option for people to register somewhere that they don't want to be assisted to die, we already have that with the respect paperwork |
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By *lirtyFilthWoman 2 weeks ago
Troublesville suburb of Barnstaple |
"Yep. After witnessing what my dad went through at the end of his life, and being by his side when he passed away, it wasn't a dignified way to go. The moment will never leave my memory. "
My heart goes out to you. I went through the same at the age of 24. The memories will always be with me.
I totally, 100% agree with end of life assisted dying. |
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By (user no longer on site) 2 weeks ago
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I emigrated to Perth Western Australia 20yrs ago and stayed for 10yrs, it was a long process getting my permanent residency but during that time my Dad developed prostate cancer.
I naturally said I couldn't go and my place was by his side, as a stage 4 cancer survivor myself who else was in a better position to be by his side.
He told me about how common this cancer was and very treatable it was, he was responding well and doctors had told him everything was under control. I found out a workmate also had it for years with no worries so I reluctantly left for Australia 10 months later.
I'd been in Oz for almost a year when I took my usual sunday evening family call only to be told He'd actually had the aggressive kind and now only got a short time to live.
I'll skip the pain & suffering he endured over the final 3 weeks, he did however tell me that he wished for his end to come as it was too much pain & too much with no dignity.
With silent tears i told him mom would be ok and not to fight it but rather just let it all go, his brave responsive words will never leave me.
"I've tried that and keep trying but I'm still here, I hold my breath in hope it will take me yet it hasn't. I don't know how to die..."
He lived only a few more days writhing and kicking in unimaginable pain. Everytime i see some snot nosed politician who disagrees with assisted dying i know surely they've never lost a loved one in this way.
Love you Dad ❤️ |
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What is media narrative leaning towards? We get the impression that institutions want it, so it's likely a bad idea for us. The cynical side of us thinks it's just to get larger inheritance tax payouts and sooner.
Can't afford to live in old age? Don't worry, the state will just put you to sleep while they replace you with third worlders.
Because as things are now we're all happy with stagnating wages and high living costs and importing competition for resources always helps.  |
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"What is media narrative leaning towards? We get the impression that institutions want it, so it's likely a bad idea for us. The cynical side of us thinks it's just to get larger inheritance tax payouts and sooner.
Can't afford to live in old age? Don't worry, the state will just put you to sleep while they replace you with third worlders.
Because as things are now we're all happy with stagnating wages and high living costs and importing competition for resources always helps. "
I'm not sure I agree here sorry, you only have to look into the Liverpool pathways or the endless DNACP during Covid . This is more about passing the bill to give people the choice to have a dignified death not about saving the government money and more about the quality of life . But with that comes a whole bunch of coercion and Risks majority from family members or a feeling they themselves are a burden . Which is not what it is for . I'm strongly for it ,however the legislation has to be stringently tight . |
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It’s not hard. A person’s wishes can be legally recorded whilst they still have mental capacity and the decision taken by the person or whoever they have untrusted as their medical PoA, who is not a beneficiary. There could be medical criteria caveats too.
No system can be totally perfect/foolproof, but at the end of the day it is about the individual’s choice that should be respected. |
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"With appropriate safeguarding and appropriate support in place then yes."
Noticing your location, Terry Pratchett chose to go in one of the most intentional displays of euthanasia. Nobody could fault his actions or the actions of those around him.
However, not everyone is as privileged as he was, with supportive relatives and friends and a genuine ability to choose.
More generally, if we normalise this and allow people to choose their death, why shouldn't we choose death for those deemed not to be able to consent, but who are suffering? Not a troll question. Where does it stop, and why? |
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Yes, but it should not come at the expense of vastly improved palliative and end of life care. The state of PEOLC in this country is a disgrace, and I would only support an assisted dying bill if it wasn’t seen by so many who are suffering as the only option to end their pain. |
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The very old twats in house of lords were playing politics on such a topic as this.
True story and why I feel so strong about it. In 1996 my mum was in her last hours of relief from emphysema anyone aware its a long painful death.
I got call saying to get to hospital she had max 2 hours left my siblings had no chance of getting there.
She was distressed and was not due more pain relief she kept asking me to stop the pain I got to point when I had pillow on her face and out of corner of my eye saw a nurse walk by door she looked at me and carried on. Without a doubt if not for nurse I would have done it.
The legal consequences could be no where near as bad as seeing my mum struggling.
This time house of lords must be allowed to waste time blocking the house of commons decisions again on this. |
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"What is media narrative leaning towards? We get the impression that institutions want it, so it's likely a bad idea for us. The cynical side of us thinks it's just to get larger inheritance tax payouts and sooner.
Can't afford to live in old age? Don't worry, the state will just put you to sleep while they replace you with third worlders.
Because as things are now we're all happy with stagnating wages and high living costs and importing competition for resources always helps.
I'm not sure I agree here sorry, you only have to look into the Liverpool pathways or the endless DNACP during Covid . This is more about passing the bill to give people the choice to have a dignified death not about saving the government money and more about the quality of life . But with that comes a whole bunch of coercion and Risks majority from family members or a feeling they themselves are a burden . Which is not what it is for . I'm strongly for it ,however the legislation has to be stringently tight ."
Excellent post. |
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By *ermbiMan 2 weeks ago
Ballyshannon |
Im saying no.
No legislation is going to be foolproof to cover all scenarios. How can a definitive medical diagnosis take place when some people go into remission from their illness.
Coersion will happen in families. Nobody can stop that. People will feel they are a burden on others which is not what this is about. Making a decision to safeguard families from seeing their final days of suffering makes it about others rather than about them.
It may start as stringent legislation but before long rules will be reviewed and relaxed and we end up like Canada with a free for all system. |
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"Comparing animals and humans as in previous posts is a grave misapprehension of what this is all about and shows gross lack of understanding."
Given the number of posts in here, their almost unanimous nature, and the heartfelt stories that people are telling, I'm going to suggest that the lack of understanding is with you. |
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By *ermbiMan 2 weeks ago
Ballyshannon |
"Comparing animals and humans as in previous posts is a grave misapprehension of what this is all about and shows gross lack of understanding.
Given the number of posts in here, their almost unanimous nature, and the heartfelt stories that people are telling, I'm going to suggest that the lack of understanding is with you."
Im not here to agree with the unanimous nature of the debate. I have an opinion too and experience of losing someone close.
Yes i agree they are heartfelt but making comparison with how animals are treated is way off the mark in this debate. So your assertion of my lack of understanding is baseless. |
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"...making comparison with how animals are treated..."
For one, a decision is made in behalf of the animal when since it cannot understand or decide for itself. What prevents is doing the same to humans, and why? |
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"...making comparison with how animals are treated...
For one, a decision is made in behalf of the animal when since it cannot understand or decide for itself. What prevents is doing the same to humans, and why?"
Emotional reactions to situations that have not been lived, is usually the reason.
My mother was in hospital and in a very bad way, I was with my brothers and I was asked by a doctor for a decision to resuscitate or not. I said not to, one of my brothers totally lost it and couldn’t come to terms with what I had said. It took a lot to get him to understand what was being decided and why.
He now totally understands the reason for my decision but he needed to live through it. |
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"Im saying no.
No legislation is going to be foolproof to cover all scenarios. How can a definitive medical diagnosis take place when some people go into remission from their illness.
Coersion will happen in families. Nobody can stop that. People will feel they are a burden on others which is not what this is about. Making a decision to safeguard families from seeing their final days of suffering makes it about others rather than about them.
It may start as stringent legislation but before long rules will be reviewed and relaxed and we end up like Canada with a free for all system. "
I think you might be a little confused, such a bill would not allow someone who has been diagnosed with a terminal illness that will kill them in a year or two but are currently fine, those people could quite easily commit suicide. An assisted suicide bill is about people who are in the last 6 months of life, suffering to such an extent that death is preferable to going on living. People would have to have the agreement of two independent doctors, and a high level oversight panel. |
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"...making comparison with how animals are treated...
For one, a decision is made in behalf of the animal when since it cannot understand or decide for itself. What prevents is doing the same to humans, and why?
Emotional reactions to situations that have not been lived, is usually the reason.
My mother was in hospital and in a very bad way, I was with my brothers and I was asked by a doctor for a decision to resuscitate or not. I said not to, one of my brothers totally lost it and couldn’t come to terms with what I had said. It took a lot to get him to understand what was being decided and why.
He now totally understands the reason for my decision but he needed to live through it. "
Agreed. But that's a decision not to resuscitate. How about a decision to actively euthanise? |
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"...making comparison with how animals are treated...
For one, a decision is made in behalf of the animal when since it cannot understand or decide for itself. What prevents is doing the same to humans, and why?
Emotional reactions to situations that have not been lived, is usually the reason.
My mother was in hospital and in a very bad way, I was with my brothers and I was asked by a doctor for a decision to resuscitate or not. I said not to, one of my brothers totally lost it and couldn’t come to terms with what I had said. It took a lot to get him to understand what was being decided and why.
He now totally understands the reason for my decision but he needed to live through it.
Agreed. But that's a decision not to resuscitate. How about a decision to actively euthanise?"
As my father was nearing the last hours of life, there was a moment I prayed he would pass peacefully rather than in the agonising pain he was in. Would I have made the choice to take his life at that point, Im not sure, the hurt of seeing him in so much pain in that moment, I can imagine I may have said yes.
Now I don’t have the situation in front of me, it alters my feeling somewhat. However, I think if the option was there, spoken about and the decision known and pre agreed, I think the choice to end life would be valid in certain circumstances. |
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By *ermbiMan 2 weeks ago
Ballyshannon |
"Im saying no.
No legislation is going to be foolproof to cover all scenarios. How can a definitive medical diagnosis take place when some people go into remission from their illness.
Coersion will happen in families. Nobody can stop that. People will feel they are a burden on others which is not what this is about. Making a decision to safeguard families from seeing their final days of suffering makes it about others rather than about them.
It may start as stringent legislation but before long rules will be reviewed and relaxed and we end up like Canada with a free for all system.
I think you might be a little confused, such a bill would not allow someone who has been diagnosed with a terminal illness that will kill them in a year or two but are currently fine, those people could quite easily commit suicide. An assisted suicide bill is about people who are in the last 6 months of life, suffering to such an extent that death is preferable to going on living. People would have to have the agreement of two independent doctors, and a high level oversight panel."
Just to be clear I am not confused. People who are nearing end of life may still go into remission. No doctor or ill persin can forsee that. |
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"
Just to be clear I am not confused. People who are nearing end of life may still go into remission. No doctor or ill persin can forsee that. "
What is fundamentally wrong about killing someone who wants to be killed for a rational reason? |
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"Im saying no.
No legislation is going to be foolproof to cover all scenarios. How can a definitive medical diagnosis take place when some people go into remission from their illness.
Coersion will happen in families. Nobody can stop that. People will feel they are a burden on others which is not what this is about. Making a decision to safeguard families from seeing their final days of suffering makes it about others rather than about them.
It may start as stringent legislation but before long rules will be reviewed and relaxed and we end up like Canada with a free for all system.
I think you might be a little confused, such a bill would not allow someone who has been diagnosed with a terminal illness that will kill them in a year or two but are currently fine, those people could quite easily commit suicide. An assisted suicide bill is about people who are in the last 6 months of life, suffering to such an extent that death is preferable to going on living. People would have to have the agreement of two independent doctors, and a high level oversight panel.
Just to be clear I am not confused. People who are nearing end of life may still go into remission. No doctor or ill persin can forsee that. "
Generally, when you are at the point you are suffering so much from your illness that you would rather die, the chance of remission has passed. People tend to feel a lot better just before they die because their body has given up the fight, would you consider that to be remission? |
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By *ermbiMan 2 weeks ago
Ballyshannon |
"Im saying no.
No legislation is going to be foolproof to cover all scenarios. How can a definitive medical diagnosis take place when some people go into remission from their illness.
Coersion will happen in families. Nobody can stop that. People will feel they are a burden on others which is not what this is about. Making a decision to safeguard families from seeing their final days of suffering makes it about others rather than about them.
It may start as stringent legislation but before long rules will be reviewed and relaxed and we end up like Canada with a free for all system.
I think you might be a little confused, such a bill would not allow someone who has been diagnosed with a terminal illness that will kill them in a year or two but are currently fine, those people could quite easily commit suicide. An assisted suicide bill is about people who are in the last 6 months of life, suffering to such an extent that death is preferable to going on living. People would have to have the agreement of two independent doctors, and a high level oversight panel.
Just to be clear I am not confused. People who are nearing end of life may still go into remission. No doctor or ill persin can forsee that.
Generally, when you are at the point you are suffering so much from your illness that you would rather die, the chance of remission has passed. People tend to feel a lot better just before they die because their body has given up the fight, would you consider that to be remission?"
In medical terms thats not remission |
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"Why do I not have the legal right to decide the time and manner of my death?"
Indeed, and that cuts to the very heart of the discussion.
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Can I choose ? Yes or No
.
If No, why is my self-autonomy being blocked and by whom and why ?
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My self-autonomy overrides everything else.
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"
Can I choose ? Yes or No
.
If No, why is my self-autonomy being blocked and by whom and why ?
.
My self-autonomy overrides everything else.
"
That's not the point. You can choose to end your life.
The question is:
May anyone take, or assist in taking, another's life? |
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For me it should be leagle but there need so be agreement form, The individual, gp, persons solicitor / in a will and a court. That whay no one can be presured in to it.
Like a partner or family just wanting to get there hands on the estate. |
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I would yes, even though morally I don't , I'm
Fairly utilitarian. I think the safeguarding has to include some kind of counselling talking therapy to make sure people understand they have value and purpose even when they have suffering, but ultimately in a modern Liberal society people should be able to make that choice |
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"For me it should be leagle but there need so be agreement form, The individual, gp, persons solicitor / in a will and a court. That whay no one can be presured in to it.
Like a partner or family just wanting to get there hands on the estate. "
Yes there's pressure from family and friends when people feel they are making others live lives worse, but there's also the mental health side of things when you're in a lot of pain and suffering. You don't always think straight I've been through a few suicide attempts with people who have gone on to get better and live very meaningful lives, but at the time they were absolutely 100% sure they did not want to live. |
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By *coptoCouple 1 week ago
Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth |
"If it's anything like Switzerland..."
Towards the end of his life, a very dear friend of mine wanted to go to Switzerland to end his suffering. He could hardly move, and it was explained to him by the doctors that they would not/could not administer the fatal injection, but would enable him to perform the act himself with a movement of his head.
However, his wife was warned by the Police that if she took him there (and how else was the poor sod gonna get to Switzerland), she would face criminal charges on her return to the UK.
He died at home and not in a good way... |
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"Towards the end of his life, a very dear friend of mine wanted to go to Switzerland to end his suffering. He could hardly move, and it was explained to him by the doctors that they would not/could not administer the fatal injection, but would enable him to perform the act himself with a movement of his head.
However, his wife was warned by the Police that if she took him there (and how else was the poor sod gonna get to Switzerland), she would face criminal charges on her return to the UK."
I've never understood the mentality behind this. The CPS don't prosecute these cases as it isn't in the public interest, but the police make sure that you get a full interrogation when you return home. What purpose can be served by arresting and questioning a person that's grieving the loss of a loved one when the police know that no charges will ever be brought? |
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""If it's anything like Switzerland..."
Towards the end of his life, a very dear friend of mine wanted to go to Switzerland to end his suffering. He could hardly move, and it was explained to him by the doctors that they would not/could not administer the fatal injection, but would enable him to perform the act himself with a movement of his head.
However, his wife was warned by the Police that if she took him there (and how else was the poor sod gonna get to Switzerland), she would face criminal charges on her return to the UK.
He died at home and not in a good way..."
That is terrible, and criminalising the wife is just awful.
.
It just makes me feel that if in the same position, the kindest thing would be to tell no one and just go. Slip off in to the night under my own steam if able. |
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""If it's anything like Switzerland..."
Towards the end of his life, a very dear friend of mine wanted to go to Switzerland to end his suffering. He could hardly move, and it was explained to him by the doctors that they would not/could not administer the fatal injection, but would enable him to perform the act himself with a movement of his head.
However, his wife was warned by the Police that if she took him there (and how else was the poor sod gonna get to Switzerland), she would face criminal charges on her return to the UK.
He died at home and not in a good way...
That is terrible, and criminalising the wife is just awful.
.
It just makes me feel that if in the same position, the kindest thing would be to tell no one and just go. Slip off in to the night under my own steam if able."
Something like this happened in Liverpool years ago. The police never actually did anything when the family member came home alone. |
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It's a very contentious topic, my wife had Huntingtons for around 30 years . It slowly took away everything. When you see someone go through such an horrific illness, if they can't go on and it's their final wish, they still have the capacity to make that decision, without being coerced, then yes without a second thought. |
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"It's a very contentious topic, my wife had Huntingtons for around 30 years . It slowly took away everything. When you see someone go through such an horrific illness, if they can't go on and it's their final wish, they still have the capacity to make that decision, without being coerced, then yes without a second thought. "
I am so sorry to hear that, it's truly awful  |
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My thought on this is having members of my family including my late wife . The ‘medication ‘ for pain is very powerful in the last instances .
Now some may call me out ? My late sister in law was a SRN Sister. Could administer certain medication . As she said yes pain killers are given and increased. At some point ? The persons body cannot take that amount . Pain is relieved . But at same time the person will die ?
Hopefully posters can see my point of medication / assisted dying ? |
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